Saudis answer to Dr. Phil

Saudis answer to Dr. Phil...this thread currently stands at 627 comments...having re-read the comment above mine here I don't think it ought to be the last word, do you?

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Aha…a new call from you to be insulted! So glad to make your wishes come true.

I read your last blablabla trashy post & I am sure you were 'high' when you wrote it (as you usually are most of the time, since you come from Texas)

I did not insult your heritage, You DID write 'SCREW' and I did not edit any post of mine. You are simply lying as you always do when you run out of logic. Actually I have full sympathy with the native Americans, due to the amount of (white man) crimes that have been committed against them, and I am sad that these crimes have resulted in massively-damaged generations, and we have you for an example!

I am sure that so much rape, battering, insults, humiliation, abuse…etc would damage souls & create seriously sick personalities that would transfer from generation to another, father to sun, mother to daughter…and again…we have you as an example! Otherwise there is no explanation to the amount of hate inside you, which I hope that you can somehow overcome and prevent it from being transfered to your offspring.

And I think that a woman in your age should be ashamed of lying!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

The topic was/is a good one in any case as having a boxing fight in a marriage is nothing unusual as we have seen on the thread and although the comment originated fron a TV show it is a fact that it is there whether in Islam or any other religeon for that matter. The big question is if this is broadcasted on Saudi television - can you imaging what may be going on in Saudi homes nowadays - notto mention what was going on before?? However, that man should be banned from giving any other comments like that on TV. I am sure other Arab states were watching that show too.

Morning Canarybird, it ain't over until it's over, I guess :)

We shall see. My opinion will not change however. Hitting is WRONG.

Hi ksarat16...tis true, I have been busy the last few days and was taken aback by the response to the thread...have been trying to keep up wih it though.

Yes, I did see the Airshow yesterday...it was super!

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Love is the answer...

Morning to you ladies...

I did see that this thread came back on top again...

621 posts o my...people did have a go at each other...

As far as u DG...girl you left the thread wide open and came back to do the closing ceremony...clever...girl...

Canary...I really dont think people have finished yet and have reached a conclusion...

Anyways you ladies take care and have a fabulous morning...did you girls watch the Air Show yesterday afternoon...it was nice...

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" Live Life To The Fullest ! Enjoy Yourself "

Diamondgirl - Good Morning,

Was a long battle, do you think there was a decision made on this and if we can move forward in a wife beating free world?? lol

Just checking my thread and I see we're up to 621 comments.

Have we finished yet?

Perhaps I can conclude by saying that......

do...not...beat...anyone...........ever! (includes all forms of life and carpets)

And to the nutty doctor on saudi TV...get some therapy man.

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Love is the answer...

well at least since I last whipped a lass! :D j/k

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

I should shush now :D Hijacking a serious thread here!

I saw JuTiEaN in recent comments and recognised it as being my name in another tongue!

OMG

A flock doves just flew over and blessed me !

on my knees now - that was heavy cr*p man!

BLAH, BLHA LHAB, ABAL, LALB, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

to stick with the lish from Eng!

the Hill's from Swa can tell! Trust me

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

I have confidence in your ability to write Swahili.

After all, who would actually KNOW ?

I was sitting trying to remember just why I DID lash out at you Mrs. Airsupply...it was because you put a post up directly in front of mine..slamming my heritage...which is why I said what I did..then recanted it..because I don't like using bad language...WHICH I did immediately, as you can see from how quickly mine came, back to back..

NOW...YOU however..REMOVED and edited your post so that it made me look like I was just lashing out at you for no reason...So...you do whatever you wish..and, by the way...when you cut and pasted my comment..you forgot to remove the "," from the post...as it was NOT the original post..you added the screw part back in...the original didn't have that in it...You're not as sly as you think you are my dear..neither is your little underling of a ghost writer...

I don't even know now if I can write in English or Swahili???!!!

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Mrs! your level of english goes up and down, it's not always you writing this stuff is it? Who is the ghost writer?

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Good Morning all:)

Canarybird, so Violence has actually no gender :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I don't want to miss the chance to express my profound appreciation to your wise & judicious words & advices of yesterday. No matter what is your opinion in me and despite the fact that we oppose to each other's views, but your words provide guidance to many and they are worth pondering about, on the hope that they would turn into deeds, and adopted as a practice.

You are a good soul BP and I have no hard feelings towards you despite the fact that you have labeled me with things that I am not. I hope that some day, I will be able to see things from your perspective and you from mine, but nonetheless, constructive criticism deserve gratitude and we are obliged to those who were so considerate to 'waste some time on us.' Some people's benevolence humilates you.

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

LOL!

Must get on with work now...

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Love is the answer...

Good Morning,

looks like we need an anti-wife beating club on QL. LOL. However, your comment about not even beating the carpets was a good one and reminded me of a woman I once saw whe I was abroad she was chasing her husband out of the house with a carpet beater. LOL.

Agreed Canarybird, and that goes for those who are married too. Shame on anyone who hits another :(

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Love is the answer...

What makes me wonder most of all is people that have no idea about marriage and married life can even dare to mention about beating their wives.

Fortunaltely for us women we are more educated than before so we are now more able to stand up for ourselves in a better way.

Shame on all you men who support wife beating.

I am absolutely sure you lovely women can do...and trust me...in this world in these times, you have got to stand up for any such acts of aggression against the womenfolk...you girls are a lovely bunch of creatures and that's the way it has got to remain...no doubts...

Alright girl, you can come down, stop high flying with all those compliments...just kidding champ...

So you are ready from the looks of it for another engrossing duel on QL...

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" Live Life To The Fullest ! Enjoy Yourself "

Don't worry, ksarat16, us womenfolk can stand up for ourselves very well indeed. Bring it on those who dare!!! :)_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Indeed you can't be controlling the size of the thread...but there have been some pathetic things in here to read, for example the views of a religion in relation to powers of Women...that's unfair for womenfolk...but then there are already people fighting about it...so I would rather have them carry on the brawl...

I've arrived at office, so another day to go and fingers crossed, hope this one is ain't like one of those normal days, I'm trying to stay positive that good things will happen, but then let's see...

Alright champ, you take care, and have a fabulous day...

Cheers...

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" Live Life To The Fullest ! Enjoy Yourself "

Well, one can't control the way a thread will go. Lots of interest to read in here and some good debate though :)

I'm very well thank you. Just finished my morning swim and got the children off to school so have started work. How are you?_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

How could you have started this thread...look at this...pure crap is going on in here...

anyways...by the way how you doing buddy...

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" Live Life To The Fullest ! Enjoy Yourself "

Good morning everyone! Wow! 597 and counting. Is this a QL record? Anyone know?

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Love is the answer...

Would somebody give us hourly and daily briefing for this thread.

That would help most of us and dweller will be happy to note that this thread would reach 1000 comments.

the thread going. It's the fastest growing and largest thread so far on QL.

Let's hit the 600!

Lol!!!!!

Lol, nothing to do with gay men :D

It means 'heaven' (mythical place) & 'strange men' (prophets, preachers imams, religious leaders etc)

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Hey adey just wondering what did Douglas Adams mean by

I dont go to mythical places with strange men

This must sound funny to u but it looks to me as if he was scared of gays

gypsy : it was cruel :D Your Arabic shoudl be worse :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

'Life is too short and if u r not living on the edge then u r taking up too much space.'

That's a strange signature to have if you are utterly disappointed in these sort of topics. To hide away from the controversial is hardly living on the edge.

Life would be awfully dull if we all agreed on everything and at least these sorts of posts have passion.

'Therefore I strongly suggest controversial topics be avoided' - well thats a red rag to a bull if I have ever heard one. I can politely say

that I think your opinion on this matter shows a timidity and ostrich like approach, of course these topics can break down into name calling but one is not forced to condone or join in with this ploy.

I can strongly suggest that you have a policeman's mentality of enforcing order and wishing to control others.

Now this is a reasoned and non aggressive point with which you can contribute to in similar fashion if you so desire. No need to try and 'ban' or control freedom of speech. If you do not want to join in then that is your prerogative.

Peace

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Salax, how convenient for you to miss the sarcasm.

I thought QL was supposed to give us(Qatar based people) an oppertunity to understand and befriend eachother(coming from diverse cultural and religious backgrounds)by sharing views on matters mostly related to Qatar. However to my utter disappointment the debates here are proving to be counter productive.I am sure all of us would not like QL to be hijacked by hate mongers.

Therefore I strongly suggest controversial topics be avoided (as if they wont jump into other topics;)........end of my input.

Life is too short and if u r not living on the edge then u r taking up too much space.

I think 'an eye for an eye' is much better than turning the other cheek!

I am not the type of person who withdraws from an insult or a threat! It is always a pleasure to show the aggressive party the mistake they have done by messing with the wrong people.

Once I see that a person has self-respect, I will be gladly dealing with all love & respect. If standing for your dignity is bad, then I am the nastiest person on earth.

Some people learn thru love, forgiveness, respect, tolerance..etc, but some are born to be insulted, like it runs in the family (PM, Scar, Xena...and others).

Xena...of course the 'end' of 'your' input is turning the other cheek (couch)!

XXX

Lara/Airsupply/Banned/Angry/PA/...etc

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Salax.for correctness.........gypsy is a native English Speaker.....not a native english woman if I take her country as Canada to be her birth place.

Just a grammar correction Salax.......not an insult

Sorry Salax, but the way you write I assumed English was not your strongest subject. I apologize for the remark.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Gypsy.........posted one about the attractions of non-western women....I hope its interesting ...........but I fear will be a war or ignored..........hey but thats life today

Sure BP, let's start another thread. Inshallah it won't turn into the same old same old thing. Would you like to do the honours? Everytime I start one it draws trolls :(. Oh and no, I wasn't referring to your English but to Salax's. Maybe then you see why I chose the simplest word. :)

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

turn the other cheek.... Thats the end of my input....

Salaam....

I beleive all people deserve respect until they have shown that they are not worthy of it. To turn the other cheek is the hardest thing to do, it is not easy to ignore somethings in life but those who can deserve the most respect. You have, for one reason or another, greatly upset many people, ask yourself are they all wrong and I am right?

If you want just ignore this and the next time you post think about not getting angry or blasting people irrespective of what they may say, remember it takes 2 to fight, .......if you can do that, then you will prove what they are saying is wrong, you are not the person they think you are.

That itself is an acheivement worth going for

its all getting very old.... I really wish sometimes you would come up with some new arguments....

Oh and sweetie.... my fat.... as you put it.... will thin with a bit of exercise.... unfortunately, you need to total personality transplant to change the kind of person you are....

Sorry BP.... I know you are being a honey and standing up for me... but unfortunately, when it comes to this ummm... person.... I have to give as good as I get....

"PM said There is no doubt and it can be proven ...

Airsupply = Airsuply = Airsuuply = Banned = Mrs = PortAlfred = PorteAlfred = Bentley"

(She is more stupid than her other friend! She forgot Lara & Angry)

Do you REALLY believe that such 'people' desreve respect, BP?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

But if you are discussing an issue, and then somebody, out of the blues, pops in, forgets about the whole topic, attacks you personally, and leaves! Exactly like what happened now with Xena!

If you can keep quiet about such behavior, sorry that's not me!

I have said it many times here that I believe in "an eye for an eye"

If I am dealing with people in love & respect, it is because I have found love & respect in their attitude. If I treat some with insults, it is because I found insults in their attitude, and found them lacking self-respect. But once they look in the mirror I hold in front of them, realize their mistakes, apologize for their attitude, then we can start again. On my part, I have apologized whenever I realized my mistakes.

I am ready to prove to you that I am telling you the truth if you are interested in taking case by case. I have already given you the Xena example, and I am ready to show you the rest until one of us see where the problems are starting.

I don't agree with you that it is the way I say the words that is causing the anger. I believe it is the clarity of proofs I provide that make some people angry for not being able to accept facts they have always tried to deny/hide. And once anger takes over, the bashing starts.

Thank you again for your words

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

This post is bringing out the real colours out of everyone's closet.

What has happened to guys here..

Its a very simple discussion that if a man even raises his hand for the sole intention of hitting means he is a coward and not man enough to keep his head cool. What is a man if beats another man... hitting a lady is immoral... unethical.. and shameful.

Whichever religion says keep control of women is not what religion must have said.. it is surely due to unwanted and unnecessary dominance of males over females..

there are enough members here that have quoted and tried to prove men can have extra marital relationships... and women cannot just because women gets pregnant... Have you ever thought with whom these men can have relationships... definetily with a female... and where does this female come from if she is not his wife... Am I talking sense... Men should be beaten by his wife with 100% more force than she would get beaten by him because if there is adultry is all (or most of the time) because we guys cannot have our libido in control. Dont blame females and then beat them too. Have some ethics..

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Gypsy.........I hope you werent refering to my English, I may type to quick and not use the preview button. but I thought my English was good enough for you. ( Oh my English teacher would be upset, O and A level English grammer, and a colonial telling me off)

Mrs........the new thread was a comment for Gypsy not to you.....sorry should have addressed it to her

Mrs..........let me put it this way, you problem with Xena is not just here and it not just with Xena, there are lot of people out there who think you are somebody else, somebody who got banned for rudness, intolerance, insults, bigotry...why is that?

You want to be heard, thats great, as long as what you want to say people want to hear.

You know, for most people what upsets them most is never what someone has to say, its the way they say it.

You are obliviously an intelligent Human Being with deep held beliefs and thoughts, well use your intelligence in your arguements, not your insults, hate, intolerance. And in the end if people dont accept your view, well at least they listened and maybe they will think about later. People will stop listening to you, will ignore you and then you dont have a chance to at least communicate........if communication is what you really seek.

I see that this last problem started through this post:

Xena said: "New user Angry.... is Airsupply/Mrs.... just trying to get someone to agree with him....."

Correct me if I'm wrong, please!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

OK agree........then lets start another thread......but could we have it without the Male/Female war breaking out? Can we be honest with ourselves?

but can you please be kind enough to show me (copy & paste) how I started a problem now with Xena?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Mrs...........I started this with you and some others joined in but who was the first one to start the nasty remarks....YOu Are you really unable to see what mistakes you make in your postings? do you really think that people will admire you and listen to you?

People only use insults when they no longer have a point to make and are losing the aguement. You said yourself that this is done to you, now you are doing it, it that right? do you feel better when you do it? you really should look at alot of your postings, you do tend to insult people in the end alot? WHY? I really would like to understand why you do it

BP that's a whole other thread! I was just trying to make a point to someone who's English might not be quite that advanced. ;)

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I have all the sympathy with battered women, but in case you haven't noticed, SHE came a cross me...I never involved her in this! So you may as well ask her to keep out of my way in case she doesn't want trouble!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Gypsy.....and I agreed with your point, its just that this equal thing that some women have is overplayed and really a problem for most men....but then again most things women do are a problem for men.

As Alexa said you are unique as a person, if only women would stop wanting to be equal and men could accept womens superior points then we would be all better off.

your personalities come shinning through... its easy to spot you"

Hehehe...me? easy to spot ME? I ain't the one with the fat.....couch in the back!

Would love to see the stupid look on your face when you discover how wrong all your speculations were!

It was very clear BP was critisizing me! I am not 'thick' like you!

XXX

Lara

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

and Mrs..............please, please leave Xena out of this,I have known many battered women and beleive me you dont want to be one of them.....considering Xena,s history with her first husband she deserves a little respect that this terrible experience has not stopped her from finding happiness......which beleive me for alot of battered women is a major problem for the rest of their lives.

And lastely as you should know, Einstein was a brilliant mind but he was unable to handle his personal relationships.......so not a good example of living with others in this world

BP my entire point was that a woman is not a man's possession. Obviously my use of the word equal was unfortunate, but I really couldn't think of another word to describe the relationship.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Alexa.......and the very important thing in what you said "this needs to be respected and honoured." The lack of respect for the things that a partner brings to the relationship is the problem many relationships have.

is that no matter how many names you log in under... your personalities come shinning through... its easy to spot you....

You always end up bashing people that don't share your opinions... BTW... Blackprince was not backing you up... he was critising you....

Salax, your views mesmerize me and my girl friends. You are ruthless persona personified. …and can we resist your charm. We hoard your types in bountiful. You Casanova you…..

Xena said: "New user Angry.... is Airsupply/Mrs.... just trying to get someone to agree with him....."

(she previously insisted that I was Lara123)

Way to go, girl! (Any man that ever came near me to hit me now... wouldn't survive....) go get'em! I know you have the balls!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Gypsy...........actaully the comparison with this business partner is an unlucky one.........have and would never hit a woman..........but a business partner.....thats another story.

You are not my possession, no one can own anybody, you are not ranked below me but you are not in many things my equal as much as I am not in many things your equal.

As a partner, well there are many of the same things we bring to a partnership and many things that only one brings but the harmony of the those different things is what makes a partnership work.

Each of us must know our strengths but also our weaknesses only then can a partnership work, if my partner has different strengths which balance out my weaknesses and I can accept that as my partner accepts my strengths then it works.

A partnership is about a balance, certain criteria such as Tolerance, love, tenderness, understanding, caring, respect must be brought by both partners.

In the need of western women to be equal, they forget that that is not important, they are superior in many aspects, those aspects they bring to a relationship are far more important than there need to be seen as ""equal"".

Nope Salax, we're two different people.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

"it reminds us all of what we must fight against in our world today"

Took the words out of my mouth! Exactly the same variety of people I encounter here on QL where I have to endeavor in order to alter. It is a similar target of mine, BP, but occasionally you find yourself bound to use a shield against attacks, and arm yourself to strike back.

Listen to what Einstein had to say:

'The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift'

Let's keep our fingers crossed that some 'servant' minds absorb the vitamines Einstein was offering!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

When I use the term equal Black Prince I mean I am not your subordinate. I am not ranked below you, I am not a car or a house that you own and can do what you want with. I am your partner and should be treated as such. You should no more hit your wife then you would your business partner.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

yet ANOTHER person in Air's head??? Guess when you can't get anyone to agree with you, you have to do SOMETHNG...

Mr paul... got your IM... will respond shortly....

New user Angry.... is Airsupply/Mrs.... just trying to get someone to agree with him.....

I cannot believe this topic has gone to 11 pages... I am sure this is a record.... Qatari?

Having been in an abusive relationship for 5 years.... and then in a loving marriage for 7.... I can tell you that there are unfortunately men in the world that think beating is a good way of getting a woman to listen... and then there are those that know loving them works better... Thank goodness there are more of the latter in the world....

FYI... my ex husband is the reason I am the strong person I am today... I was broken with he met me... and he helped me take the experience and make it my strength.... Any man that ever came near me to hit me now... wouldn't survive....

Gypsy, the use of the word Equal is wrong, men and women are not equal, most women are not as physically strong as men whereas no man can bear children ( probalably we couldnt take the pain)

All humans are different, they are not equal, they have different attributes and different abilities.

In the craze of the some people for all to be seen as equals, we forget they we are different, what one has and one lacks, are different in all human beings , that whats makes us interesting and the world a melting pot.

Although we use the word equal often, it is not correct, it is seen so often that women want to be a mans equal, well why, you are something different, who knows maybe better but you are not equal.

Salax you haven't insulted any of us personally, the problem is what you say disrespects all women everywhere. You talk as though we are your posessions rather then your equal.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I can't find the send message button on your profile.

Please send me a PM and then I can reply

thanks ever so much

oh go jump down a well salax.

At least have the enough brains to listen and take on board some good advice.

Your viewpoint is repellent as 3 day old cat puke with flies buzzing round.

There are plenty of lovely Arab girls who are not muslim. Next time you are in Doha try the Pearl on a Friday night.

Bonne Chance

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

cause if we are...my vote goes to Salax NOT being Airsupply because his posts..however different minded they be, are never direct hits on someone's person...The wording and typing is totally different

Mrs...IS definitely Airsupply...(however, as I said that last LONGGG post by Mrs/Air wasn't in his wordings or writing style..too many words that actually had a meaning to them...hmm..thought here...think he's got a girlfriend and beating her into posting for him now???)

and I made a mistake earlier, Richard...thought Mr, Paul was talking about mrs being airsupply...that's what I get for skimming posts...mea culpa...

Cool paul that makes it easier for u to hookup with anyone

By the way muslim men are allowed to marry because of PArental laws which state that the child born would be given the fathers name and hence a child born to a man of another religion is lost to the community.

a question to you Mrs. Have you ever wondered why you are "Attacked" so often in QL, actual often is wrong, as soon as you get involved in a topic it always ends up that you are "Attacked" Also these attackers are just about everybody and they cover a wide variety of cultures and countries. To be honest the attackers are actually not the agressors, the do not attack they defend themselves against your attacks.

You polarise people, make them angery and bring out the agressiveness in them, Why?

Well I am relatively new in QL but I quickly learnt that you seem to be unable to accept that other people are intitled to views which are different to yours.

So many people here try to discuss with you different topics, they try to use logic and truth based facts but you in the end just push them away as stupid and worthless.

For sure you have something to say but you do your cause no good at all with your attitude. To be honest I dont answer you because I feel that its a waste of time, in this life you must recognise those who you can communicate with and those with whom you cannot. This is a shame as whatever you stand for and what ever your opinion is , is lost and wasted on us all as we hear the same things out of you all the time....abuse and ridicual.....not for me aguements in todays world.

To be truthful you typical of the problem of todays world... intolerance.....and if only for that reason your presence in QL is worthwhile, it reminds us all of what we must fight against in our world today

so why should it be the other way round ??

Saying that, i am the least religious person in the world anyway, HOWEVER..... i do believe in letting people have their own religious beliefs, each to their own.Thats before you all start attacking me for been an "Ifidel"

The only thing i do object to, is having someone elses beliefs pushed down my throat.

I am a big boy and able to make my own decisions in life !!

I don't think Salax is Airsupply but I do think that Mrs is Airsupply. What do you guys think?

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

No paul u can meet up with a Muslim woman

The thing is u will have to convert to Islam

A little swearing never hurt nobody !!! Its only words after all, and people can always read a different post if they find it offensive.

Plus, its always blanked out so its not readable anyway.

So??? Does that make you a decent person?

[img_assist|nid=46442|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

After all, why stick with people from your own background, there is no rule to do this.Plus, a few of my friends in England and here are with other nationalites, its the person inside, not where they come from, that makes them.

I know that muslim ladies are not permitted to see Non Muslim men, which i personally think is wrong, as Muslim men can marry Non Muslim ladies.However, we are free to choose our partners of choice.

To quote a song "All you need is love"

If she didnt take any **** from me, then a wife beater like salax wont ahave a snowballs chance in hell of getting, and keeping , a western women.

Mind you, im finding myself drawn to Middle east ladies now......so if any of you are single and looking for lurve, then dont hesitate to pm me.......LOL

You mean to say you treated your ex awfully? dont tell us she kicked you A$$ because you hit her with toothpick..lol

and welcome back...taking a bit of a peek today are ya???

and..as Oryx said...it IS Air...but I don't think it was actually him that wrote that last post..totally different speech pattern and actually sounded rather like they knew how to use English words other than stupid, sh*t..and other useless words that Ais usually slings around at people...guess now he's got a ghost writer when he wants to sound like he's trying to be the voice of reason and injured by comments...

I even lost 1 point yesterday and guess who gained ... Qatari

For a simple thing of editing my post immidiately after clicking post comment button.

Dont know whatz he upto. he wants us to earn points by inviting friends and also deletes all our points. why should we invite friends..... Qatari... are you listening ????

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Hi

its funny to watch it go back and forth..lose one point, gain one point..then poof..0 points..

Good thing I'm not in charge of points...

I am fine and I do hope you are doing gr8.

You know after my points became zero a few days back.. I have stopped commentig in QL. hehehehehehehehehehe... Just kidding.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

to me !! Western women will NOT take any **** off western men, so , Salax will absolutely Zero chance of marrying one.They will kick his A** all around the room if he steps out of line. Just ask Oryx.

reason...how are you today???

If at all Salax marry a western woman (0% chance) he will regret for all that he ranted about women. Not only westerners, any educated women in this world would 100% disagree with your comments. As per your comments it looks like you need a slave and not a wife. Still it’s happening in many parts of the world where you can buy an unfortunate girl for small amount and do whatever you want and will agree his right as right and his wrong as wrong...she wont have an opinion of her own. No wonder he is still single. It’s disgusting to know that men like him still exist in this planet.

don't forget to breathe..hate to have you pass out during your soliquey..

Now..that being said...never forget there are forces greater than all of us that watch this forum...and some of us have more strikes against us than others.

I deleted that part of my post earier, Air because I changed my mind and decided not to allow it to stay in public...its just not who or what I am usually(was having a bit of a bad night last night)...but since you have so graciously reposted what I changed for propriety's sake..then thank you..

SCALYWAGS !!!

Will do now... mad busy - making us work at work!

And I had my mosaic package removed from home so no internet or telly at home anymore

As you sow, so shall you reap... does that remind you anything. If not, take a break for a while and read all your comments in last 10 days and then become an orator here. Your bad language is scatered all over QL.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

ladies today, Oryx, Jauntie, Gypsy and not forgeting Xena !!

Oryx...Why dont u mail me anymore ?

Xena...Ive im'd you

Gypsy..Hope u r good and giving as good as u get

Jauntie...Hello

No Paul love.... that is Air Supply 'Mrs'- the nutter above.

Its like a bus stop in Manchester on a rainy Sunday afternoon with all these loonies around.

Scarlett said: "mrs...like you said women should be,.....screw you.. ...

I have no idea why you choose to bo such an a**...but you are..."

I have absolutely no idea why the personal attack against me suddenly started in page 6 of this post when all of us were discussing issues, reasonably. My only conclusion is that Scar was offended because some members must have touched a nerve in some subject (could be the anal sex) which is an embarrassing & personal to her, and she decided to spew out her anger on me.

Scar, you could've either input your opinion, or you could have neglected the issue. Making personal attacks on people is an indicator that you lack logic & reason, and that you have not managed to forgive & forget as you mentioned.

No matter how much I try to deal with you as a human, you insist on reminding me that it is impossible sometimes for love & understanding to be the means of communication with some people.

I hope that 1 day you will learn that negative feelings such as anger and resentment must be redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you. I hope that you will learn to admit when you are wrong and build bridges instead of walls. And remember: If you hate somebody or something, that person or thing has a power over you.

You can still expose whatever info you have about me, Scar. I don't give a damn!

Then came the barks from the followers (wagging their tails); Oryx, skdkak & adey. Do you guys think that making personal attacks, using bad language, bashing…etc is the right way in addressing any discussion/dibate? Or is this your version of "free speech"? Doesn't that indicate the fragile foundation you are standing on?

Anyway, I can tolerate you as you are, I will never retreat, bow or take a step back no matter how fierce your attacks were, how loud you bark or how dirty your words. With the courage in my heart and the determination in my soul, I will always be happy to take a deep breath and face you bravely with facts, reason and logic, if you have any. You too, in case you think that you need to cause more personal damage, go on and post whatever personal info you think you have about me.

PM…I…..ummm….......forget it!.......You are a hopeless case! A pure hate machine! Go on. Post all the info you want about me! Artificial intelligence is no match to natural stupidity!

You can never tell on this site nowadays !! lol

Salax..............you carry on my friend, you doing us western guys a favour, after listening to you maybe the girls will see that we western guys aint half as bad as they thought we were.

This is a different idiot altogether but a complete idiot nonetheless.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

With yet another alter ego ????

Points for trying i s'pose !!

[img_assist|nid=45696|title= 00-MUPPET !!|desc=|link=none|align=right|width=180|height=135]

Basically we women are all wasting our time discussing with you,

you have no experience and have no idea what carisma is.

You have provoked comments from all women who are presently on QL twisting and turning all comments to suit you and your owm comments clearly show that you have no respect for women.

Yeah alexa the awakening in the form of a divorce

Alexa, or for that matter, any strong woman in the world. Plenty of subservient, downtrodden woman in the west.

_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

You are too full of youor own importance sunshine "and also the mighty will fall".

Salax ur caught in a pickle

The scene is a bit too physical

If u like to live take a word of advice

Never show ur face in public especially infront of these guys

brilliant....I love stuff like this. You're all nuts

I liked that one.

Ur right ifyco u shudnt hit anybody ever

And ifur man ever hit u u have the right to hit him back

Ur right ifyco u shudnt hit anybody ever

And ifur man ever hit u u have the right to hit him back

salax, I did not curse you nor wish you ill as you accused me of doing.

And I will not be taking you up on your offer of marriage. I am married to the kindest, most considerate man on earth. We CHOSE to marry each other after we fell in love. I was not GIVEN to him. I am no-ones property. We live our own lives and make our own decisions as well as making decisions as a couple and as a family. Furthermore, he would never even think of raising a hand to me nor I to him. We have far too much respect for one another. We live in a harmonious household where no-one hits adults, children or animals. We don't even beat our carpets...we brush them lovingly :)

Even if I was not married I would rather dive headfirst into a giant septic tank every day for the rest of my life than take you up on your offer of marriage. what a prison sentence that would be.

I think you are playing with us now just to get reactions. Either that or you are stark staring mad.

______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

you are interested in marrying...and I thought you said you respected women...at least enough to lightly beat them when they stepped out of line...(whatever that is!)

Sorry..that's like me talking about Greek guys like they are a piece of beefsteak...

and I certainly DON'T do that for no reason..was trying to force me to do something i absolutely WOULD NOT DO..and that is after me telling him repeatedly to take me home...self defense...only reason to hit someone...

Women of the world unite,

because the men on QL are certainly not right,

though comments through the forum fly,

this theme it will never die,

And salax85 has a point of view,

to us, we're sure it's quite askew,

He knows not what he doth say,

and with feisty comments he has to pay.

Beating here or beating there,

For us women it will never be fair,

for cooking seems to be our plight,

with soft soft hands and all our might

We'll ne'er allow him to put us down,

Allas the men will wear a frown

10 Pages in 24 hrs DG kicked up quite a storm..lol.

It would be very pathetic to raise ones hand on a fellow human being, more so on a physically weaker person.

I wonder if the guy could dare hit a woman who is a Black-Belt in Karate. He might have to change his tummy-tires, elbow-U-joints and Knee-pads if the girl was Scarlett.

There was once a woman who after getting tired of the nightly beating douched the mattress the man was sleeping with petrol. The guy woke up in the middle of the night to the feeling of wet clothes & smell of petrol only to find the woman holding a burning candle in her hand & warning him "It would take me only seconds to put your body on fire. Next time you hit me I'll make sure you feel the flames. Now go back to sleep"...it later became a theme of a Hindi film.

salax...tender chix???? Make them sound like a chicken cutlett...

someone pls tell me when its ok to hit a guy cos i damn well will if he screws up... i'll hit "lightly" too . What d hell !!! some ppl agree its ok to hit a woman?? i think its insane ... wheather hard, lightly or just raising a hand to strike is a complete insult . If a guy raises a hand to hit i would consider it a huge insult , cos u even thought about hitting, teh u must be outta your mind. If there was a rule that says girls can hit husbands too "lightly" then it will be justified. Dnt tell me if a wife is not obediant u can , husbands r not that obedient or holy either... Long and short of the story ... ITS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE TO HIT OR EVEN THINK OF HITTING A WOMAN!!

those other laws aren't going to be enforced basically because they can't be...I mean..how do you PROVE someone is committing adultery unless you catch them in the "act"..and then that's invasion of privacy

so u mean to say discipline is only necessary for the military and not for the masses.

Cool!!!!!!!!

so Asians are smarter than Westerns? good grief dude...GROW UP...its all in the personal make up of the individual...NOT what race or where they are from. The reason Asians look younger for longer is that they don't go in the sun as much..if they did...they'd age just as quickly...Matter of wanting what you don't have...they want to look lighter..we want to look darker...I have curly hair..but want straight...you may have straight hair but want curly...

Please stop with the one nationality or group is better than another..that's just ridiculous

nonsense.better think bevore saying this sh..

makes me laugh.

*Create your own destiny,fighting against your dark sides,raise your

spirituality.Every day is a new day.A new life.

Keep the faith!*

Hey Salax what did u find so attractive in a westerner or anyone fair and white for that matter

U know they are gonna look more older than u while u still look young in a couple of years

The skin starts loosing its charachter before u asians do

Why do u think its mostly the asians and south americans who win the beauty contests and asians are smarter too.

Ur bangladeshi wife will give u more happiness anyday

Ok lets take this one step at a time :-

"We are a cross-section of women in society." Here you identify a set of people i.e. All women in society. Lets call this set A.

"Maybe none of us are from Bangladesh and there might be some cultural differences". Here you define another set 'Us'. This is clearly a subset of A as you refer to set A as 'We' and 'B' as Us. If B is a subset of A, what the difference ? Of course it those Bangladeshi sisters (give or take a few as you say Maybe) that you belittle.

Need I go on ? Just apologize and move on.

Why are your taking out your frustrations out on my community ?

With regards an apology to you, I'm sorry but I can't do that.

Good for you - I can do somethings on my car too and in Europe it was a case of having to whereas here not necessary.

How about beating up some dough for a change that might get rid of extran energy lol.

kiss a dog, eat certain things on Sunday..etc.....but those aren't enforced either...most of those laws were from WAY back and had really funny beginning, if you ever delve into the history of WHY they were put into law...

None of those are enforced..withthe exception of the military ones...and in those cases it can be understood simply because of eneding to have discipline in the ranks or in case of war...plus can cause favoritism.

that way when you DO marry...you can help out in the kitchen. (when you're not lightly beating your wife!) Sorry buddy...no tips for catching a western female...if anything I'd be sending up sky writing saying.."run away! run away!" Good luck to you tho, deaf frog...and better luck to the ladies...

you really believe in what you are saying here?lol.makes me laugh a lot.sorry,no offence but it is to funny.you and a westener woman?never ever.poor salax then.lol.

*Create your own destiny,fighting against your dark sides,raise your

spirituality.Every day is a new day.A new life.

Keep the faith!*

In the United States, laws vary from state to state. For example, in Pennsylvania, adultery is technically punishable by 2 years of imprisonment or 18 months of treatment for insanity (for history, see Hamowy) (criminal statute repealed 1972), while in Michigan the Court of Appeals, the state's second-highest court, ruled that a little-known provision of state criminal law means that adultery carries a potential life sentence.[2] In Maryland, adultery is punishable by a fine of $10. That being said, such statutes are typically considered blue laws and are rarely, if ever, enforced. In the U.S. Military, adultery is a potential court-martial offense only if the actions of the accused were "to the prejudice of good order and discipline" or "of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces".[

and thank you...daddy also taught me to change tires, rotate them, pack U joints and replace brake pads...but I'd rather stand and look helpless when it comes to that stuff...car grease is tough to get off your nails..

Oh Scarlett you are so feisty lol.

personally speaking I am thinking THAT'S never going to happen with your mindset. No self respecting Western woman will ever put up with what you are thinking marriage should be.

NOW as far as having soft hand made for cooking...have you EVER cooked anything yourself??? All that water and cutting makes your hands rough...besides...we women can knock the ever living out of you if we feel like it. I know..done that before to a guy when he decided he wanted to do something I didn't...he got a right hook with an upper cut, to the jaw...left one heck of a bruise which he had to wear to school the next day. You will find us women aren't as defenseless as you think. Our dads taught us well...

adultery in the US isn't punishable..unless you consider divorce and paying alimony, punishment... Granted..its not a good thing.....but you will NOT go to jail for it.

The fact of the matter is whether religious or state declared

Adultery is punishable everywhere

In US these kind of laws are called Blue laws and usually not taken seriously

Oh that's crazy KH, any sexual contact is adultery!

As for this topic, ofcourse women shouldn't be beaten, I don't understand how any person can justify it.

I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield

Recently I heard that BJ is not considered adultery.

It seems that adultery is limited to vaginal penetration.

Fornication is punishable by death in all major religions

Not only Islam and Christianity

Because it leads to moral degradation

Yes it does, in a lot of ways.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

The penalty for adultury is death in Islam

Adultery is considered a sin in all religions. The Bible decrees the death sentence for both the adulterer and the adulteress (Lev. 20:10) . Islam also equally punishes both the adulterer and the adulteress (Quran 24:2). However, the Quranic definition of adultery is very different from the Biblical definition. Adultery, according to the Quran, is the involvement of a married man or a married woman in an extramarital affair. The Bible only considers the extramarital affair of a married woman as adultery (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22, Proverbs 6:20-7:27).

As you are not married, and in my opinion don't have a clue how married life is carried out between two people, and definarly you see your future wife as a lower creature, your comments to Gypsy show just how unfounded you basic information in marriage is.

To be quite honest I think you should bring your future wife to visit me and I will explain her a few home truths about you. LOL

Go have your milk and cookies and come back to us when you grow up.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

PM why do you single out Bangladeshi women as being particularly prone to being beaten. I think you ought to apologize and show some brotherly love !

PM, I agree that this should be equally punished , but the consequence on family reproduction is different. Women are the ones who give birth and this weights too much on the family balance. If a woman commit adultery this could mix children of different parents and this would also lead to problems of heredity aftrewards. Of course problems would get more serious if women keep silent and there's nothing to prove that children are from other men. Except when a white woman have a sexual intercourse with a black man :D The child would be the answer to the husband suspicions :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Actually I think that would be better, at least then you know your half brothers and sisters, and are raised with them as a family. Whereas finding out you had brothers and sisters you never knew is much much worse to me, and much more of a betrayal.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Salax85, how are a womans hands MEANT for cooking good food. How very condescending.

I suggest a life of celibacy for you. I really pity the poor woman who makes the mistake of marrying you.

_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Adultury is adultury no matter who commits it. It is not more damaging when a woman commits adultury than a man.

This is an issue on its own - Adultury is wrong on both parts why should it be less damaging for a man than a woman - oh yes men would like to think that.

This is highly linked yo my wife is my posession my friend - if you can commit adultury so can she (the word you being used as a general term of course)

Men and Women have same Right.So no Fight.there are many ways to keep peace in family.No stick is needed.

"Drink Beer Save Water"

Is this want Micheal Jackson was taking about ?

Gypsy - You have interest view point. Can I ask what do you think should be done rapist ?

So you would rather hit her and force her to leave you? That doesn't make sense.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Gypsy, Sure Adultery is damaging, but it's more damaging when commited by women. Women have a particularity :) They give birth to children that would constitute the family. Your half-sisters and half-brothers would always belong to a different family. What if you have sisters and brothers , and you find out afterwards that they're just half-brothers and half-sisters :D and your mother never told you or your father that she was playing around and got some hidden gifts for the familly that was never unwrapped :D Think twice Dear Gypsy :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

And what, finding out you have a couple of half brothers or half sisters running around that your father never told you about isn't devastating. Or watching the maids stomach grow, and your mother having to ignore it? Adultry is damaging, it doesn't matter who commits it.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Gypsy sure he could do that , but he's not the one who will be pregnant . When a woman makes sex with many men ( her husband included) at the same period, she may not be able to recognize the father of her child. This is quite devastating for the family. She could make ADN test of course, but most women would keep silent and get a Mosaïque family :)

Threatening Physical violence is NEVER EVER the answer to anything Salax. If she's doing those things (although with the parents, make sure they are respecting her first) then divorce her. You are more then likely going to cause more damage through physical violence or the threat of it then simply divorcing her.

Think about it. You have a woman or a man thinking about cheating on their spouse, one night they go home and the spouse hits them or even threatens to hit them, what would you do? I for one would probably go running to the other person.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

LOL salax,

If men play around with another women ?

Are you ready to beaten up from ur wife ? lol

"Drink Beer Save Water"

Please Salax, enlighten us, what is this strong reason why a man gets to beat his wife?

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Nowadays if the man commits adultury (which is definately more common)better not to let him back in the womans' bed as he might be carrying a little present to her of disease. He certainly deserves to be beaten lol.

So all you scholars please tell me what is the difference if we (women and men) are equal.

And if a man commits adultry he could have children with another person other then his wife.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Good Morning scarlett :)

I hope you're fine. You should call yourself QLsun :D

well, It's the same sin, but the consequences are not the same. If a woman commit such an adultery act, family could be seriously harmed. She could have children from other men than her husband. Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Litteratuer salam ,

The Prophet never did that :) He also said " the best Among you will not do " and he was a great man and a great husband.I have already said that maybe twice, so please try tp read thoroughly . I know it's a long thread, but it's quite interesting .

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

if a woman does adulterous things..and is supposed to be beaten..does a man ALSO have to be beaten if he does adulterous things??? It is the same sin...

The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch

ngourlay thanks for your interesting quote :) Actually , there is a difference between the religion itself and those who practice it .Many Muslims do not really represent Islam and the same would apply to Christians or Jews.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

The Qur'an is very clear on this issue.

The beating only relates to a situation where a woman has done adultrous in nature

Allah says:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard.

As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly);

but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

Here's a paraphrased excerpt from the Bible (Judges 19:22-29).

A group of sexually depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

***

There is a difference between what is written in holy scripture, and the general behaviour of those who follow that religion. I am not a religious person, but I know that my Muslim friends do not beat their wives, just as my Christian friends (in the main) do not chop women up.

I love this thread.... and the best part is people who actually wack their wife are not on this forum!!!

I wonder if the Prophet(in peace) wacked his wife!hhmmmm (just a thought)anyway...

smile..it never hurts..

Islam & Wife Beating

http://www.islamonline.net/english/In_Depth/IslamWifeBeating/index.shtml

“How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” Considering the rates of domestic violence all over the world, this question, which was asked by the Prophet Muhammad more than 1400 years ago, is applicable today to all people of all faiths and cultures.

Despite the universality of domestic violence, Muslim men involved in wife-abuse have attracted more attention than others. Horrific stories of husbands beating their wives while claiming that the Qur’an gives them the right to do so are highlighted in the media. At the same time, Muslims assert that Islam honors and respects women, giving them rights that promote and preserve their human dignity.

The crux of the matter lies in the need for the distinction between Islam and the behavior of some Muslims. Each and every Muslim has rather unfairly been caste as a representative of his or her faith, and his or her behavior is immediately a reflection of Islam, not of the Muslim as a human individual.

This special file aims at clarifying the position Islam takes regarding wife-beating. Although the material presented, which is compiled from various IslamOnline.net pages, concentrates on the very specific issue of wife-beating, it is essential to point out that Islam has extensively elaborated on the rights of women at all times and in totality.

Wife Beating: An Islamic Perspective

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi and Dr. Jamal Badawi point out that the Prophet Muhammad never hit any female, and said that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives… More>>

Bonds of Love and Mercy

In one of his sayings, the Prophet Muhammad equated perfect belief with good treatment of one’s wife: “Among the Muslims, the most perfect as regards his faith is the one whose character is most excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives well.” More>>

Dealing with remorse after I beat my wife

Dr. Abdullah Rahman stresses the fact that no marriage can thrive if one or both of the spouses resort to verbal or physical abuse… More>>

Islamic View of Emotional Abuse in Marital Life

The relationship between the spouses should be based on tranquility, love and mercy. These three summarize the ideals of Islamic marriage, Zeinab Mostafa says… More>>

Obedience within Loving Marriages

“You ask about obedience to the husband and his “right” to beat you. The answer is that he does not have the right to beat you!” More>>

Islamic Guidance on Treating Wives

Islam has honored woman and granted her an equal status with man. Moreover, Dr. `Abdul-Fattah `Ashoor assures that a woman can excel a man by obeying Allah, drawing near to Him, and perfectly fulfilling her religious duties… More>>

Equal Rights for Women

“As far as I know, Muslim men treat women with no respect, beat them, oppress them and sometimes kill them!” one visitor says. But, as our consultant points out, the problem is with the practice and not with the law either in Islam or any other culture… More>>

Marriage: The Basis of Family

Islam considers marriage to be one of the most virtuous and approved of institutions, and Islam has many teachings on how husbands and wives should deal with each other lovingly… More>>

Husband and Wife: Mutual Rights and Obligations

In Islam, the marriage of a man and a woman is not merely a financial and physical arrangement of living together but a sacred contract, a gift of God, to lead a happy, enjoyable life… More>>

Why does it always come down to Muslim women vs. Western women? And WHY is it always MEN who are ranting about the differences??? Especially MEN who know nothing about the women from either side! If you truley believe Muslim women are meek, mild and modest then you've never actually spoken to a Muslim woman, if you truly believe all Western women are prostitutes, then you've never ever spoken to a Western woman!

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I only ever beat my ex with one thing...

And she liked it...

Now it's over...

Oh wait did a fat lady sing yet???

No fat ladies on Qatar Living...he he he

You can't teach experience...

YAY its over...

You can't teach experience...

I wanted to send you a message saying that I am done writing on this thread but unfortunately it seems for some reasons that you dont want me to send you a private message.

You are the professor. whereas I am one annoying student who cannot take anymore theories as I am no match compared to your knowledge.

Just a question how do I send you a message. Dont worry you know me very well to know that I wont be sending any love/hate messages. rather my messages would be "You Win Professor. See you in the next round"

I know the aftermaths of a war and what women have to do in Afghanistan to just survive

I am perfectly aware women only sell their bodies as a last resort. I have even met those Afhan women who go to Pakistan to sell themselves to keep their kids alive. I also know the russians who are involved in this trade. ( i am not a pimp)

But what should the society do? There are two sides of the story

Those who are helpless and those who do it willingly even when they have all the facilities. Those who are helpless are probably 99%.

Should the society legalize them or should the society punish them. I once saw a guy in a hospital who was high on drugs and they had to restrain him and you should hear the profanity that he was uttering. Should we allow the use of drugs knowing its consequences?

night knox...

are happening all over the world but should we legalize those evils or not?

e.g drugs are legal in netherlands, they even have those room where people can free syringes to shoot themselves and get high

lets legalize smoking and let kids smoke. lets let kids do whatever they want, lets let this place to be a free world where people can do whatever they want, lets allow women to have kids born out of welock, lets make sure that those women dont sue for child support, they themselves decided to have kids, lets allow people to export drugs, lets......

The list goes on and on.

My view point is that the society has to put limits. without limits and laws there will be no difference between us and the animals

i am getting tired Ms. Scarlett. lets continue this some other day and if you want to shut me off you know what to do (winks)

I'm going to bed...enough with the bashing my head against a brick wall trying to get people to think for themselves...

thank you for stopping me before I bled to death...

that's called the electoral college...look it up sometime...

ok had to edit this...you are doing it again knox...stop just generalizing...look things up and learn...stop parroting what you've heard from someone else...stop and THINK...for yourself...don't believe propaganda...because if you do that..then the little evil people win...they win with their spread of hatred...

started reading this thread, then realised it went through 8 pages so far. wanted to comment then refrained. will not go through some 400 comments to figure out in which direction this thread is going.

see you in another thread. will stay tuned like most of you :)

The finest example of democracy is that Bush got re-elected even after what he had done.

Not everyone can choose the right path. not everyone has the right thinking. and sometimes their thinking can put hurdles in the thinking and actions of the rest of the society.

Great minds think alike .... and the rest follow them

society that doesn't allow prostitution...still exists..its just ignored and pretended NOT to exist..is that better??? Seems to me to face what is happening and admit it...is better than playing ostrich and never admitting it is happening..even tho it is

islam doesn't allow nakedness or drugs, narcotics, buy and sell drugs???..because trust me..its here...to say its not is being totally naieve...might not make the papers or new..but its here...

and the disgrace to wome who allow men to stuff money you know where..those women choose to do that..no one is making them...

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. by Mark Twain.

The society has some faces that it does not want others to know that they exist. Should the society acknolwedge that they exist and try to eradicate them or should the society allow those faces to merge and fuction like a part of the society.

e.g prostitution exists. so should we try to get rid of it or should we accept them and allow pimps and prostitutes to be included in the main stream and maybe with time they might one day become councillors etc etc. The problem here is that these people exist but even the society that proclaims to be the most liberal does not want them to come on stage in public and say that they are prostitutes/sex wokers.

democracy...Democracy means the ability to THINK for yourself...and choose..

To allow someone to do whatever they choose is their choice...and I choose NOT to participate in debauchery..again...democracy at work...

but its MY choice...no one is telling me what i can or cannot do...neither a man nor a government...and by having that choice, I can live freely...and peacefully...

Scarlett is not whether we like the pornstars or the strippers. The question is whether we should have them or not? Whether we should allow humans to be paraded naked with/without their will? Whether we should allow the use of drugs and narcotics? whether we should allow people to buy and sell sex, drugs etc etc

whether we should allow the disgrace to women by allowing them to be naked and people stuffing money in their ******

whether those men who tend to buy women should be allowed or not.

FYI I do not hate the West, I am rather very grateful to the West for allowing me know what it means to have democracy. freedom of opinion, freedom to choose.

Sorry, that made no sense to me whatsoever.

What does that have to do with choosing an identity? People can be and do what ever they desire. You want to raise a child by yourself? That would be against nature, since males cannot have a child but you still want to so is it wrong then? I am not sure I understood your message.

tra la la

sometimes the roles are pre determined by nature. A man will be a man and a woman will be a woman. unless we decide to go against the laws of nature. just like a man cannot be a woman how much he tries to do so and similarly a woman cannot take a man's role.

The only problem is nature has told us our roles that we have to play but we intentionally try to tread on the opposite side thinking we can withstand the incoming traffic from the opposite side. But nature always takes the best course of action,

hurry up guys i need to study some feed forward and feed backword control.

but just do so with love in your heart for WHO they are and give them the freedom to choose...who they love and who they are...give them wings so they might fly with the eagles not be held down by the turkeys who can't see past their own noses...

the West has? There is nothing wrong with freedom...its what's inside your heart that is the key factor...if you are a good person..you aren't going to head to the dark side of life..you share your light with others...

I wish you'd stop thinking that everyone in the West is bad...we aren't...in fact, most of us are good people with good hearts and lives...No, I don't like "strip places, brothels their swimsuit editions, playboys. hustler etc etc as objects of sex based on their short lived beauty "...but like most..I will respect the West's ability to have the freedom to do that...If you think that Islam doesn't have the same thing I dare you to check out the channels on cable..It SHOCKED me to see the number of Arabic porn channels...and what was on them...not just women, but homosexuals...

I raised my boys to respect women..and they do. Its the mindset and what's inside that matters...not where you are from.

Who cares where a woman will find her identity. If she wants to be something, than it is her choice what she chooses and no one has the right to judge her.

The problem is when the identity is forced upon a woman and she has no choice.

tra la la

not everyone is lucky like you. not everyone has the options to choose.

unfortunately i am not married and am planning to stay single but might one day raise an or more orphans (just to prove women that men can also raise kids)

kindly ignore what is written in brackets

its a good sign that Muslim women want their own identity but lets hope that they dont turn towards the West in search of their own self and neither do they go and start looking towards some opressive, repressive regime as a model society

But from the looks i feel that the path is a very delicate one and women will be juggling between those two path. lets hope their balancing skills are better than the men. Although what remains to be seen is what will stop them from desiring freedom like the West.

Guess my advice for a dissertation topic to kim was a good one.

Nothing is perfect. All systems fail.

but also consider most women to be as logical and lucky as i have been...we all can make decisions...the right ones, when allowed the freedom to do so..

Applause......... I love the way you put it Scarlett..........touchwood!

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it"

27 years...to the same man..and yes beauty fades but when you love someone that you have taken the time to choose and who chooses you...its just RIGHT...

I didn't nee someone to choose for me..i did that all by myself..and I was 22 years old...and yes, he was handsome..still is and yes, he's a loving man...still is..

So..don't tell me women can't choose correctly, because...WE CAN and DO!!!

unless you can read people's minds no one know what lies in those deep depths. They can harbouring any secrets or any kinda wild fantasies. you never know

Moreover for a girl of 18-25 who can marry with her own will, sometimes she doesnt see those inner cavities. Even if she has an X-ray vision do you think a girl that is 18-25 years old can decide between a handsome, a rich and an obedient.

In the beginning love prevails, with time love fades away and something else takes its place. even the beauty fades away. i mean the outside beauty.

that "A woman, a carpet, a mulberry tree........the more you beat them, the better they be"

ROTFLMAO.......haha just came across this thread and this line immediately came to mind......

Oh NO I dont endorse lifting a finger on a woman, unless its for "more gainful activities", but this is just a line ( a JOKE) I thought I will share.

Also I dont know if it was indeed Shakespeare.........just for a laugh. Cheers.

(But what a seriously disturbing thread)

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it"

have to do with anything???

I have NEVER looked only at the outside...its the inside that shines for me..Never have gone for the guys that were just "pretty boys", with or without money..they had to have hearts of pure gold..the kind that melts when you look at them...not the hard metal ones...

Appearances can be deceptive , all that glitters is not gold

(gold is expensive these days)

because I can...and because he is a good, honest man that loves me and cares for me, no matter what..and that also has no inkling to EVER hit me whatsoever..and respects me and my opinions regardless of whether he agrees with them or not...who says you have to have sex before marriage anyway???

And if you seriously think that because someone is Muslim he never has flings...whoa mister you are sadly mistaken..take those blinders off..

my question is who do you prefer for marriage?

THE WEST

The kind, handsome, smart rich guy that you date and have sex with before you get married to him. Chances are he might not be the one or he might not be so GREAT in bed. So you move on in search of that Gentleman and even if you find him there is no guarantee he will not have flings

The Muslims

The guy that your parents tell you is handsome, rich and you have never met him before and have no idea whether he smokes or drinks or or or

will be your husband. Though he can turn out to be not what you have heard or have been told

The choice is yours. Choose what you like

blow it...

sacred beauty...sorry...doesn't fly and no one has to embrace the entire Western culture...which you so poorly misrepresented...

is that the muslim women look up to the west as an ideal society where women have all rights and freedoms.

They dont know that in ordeer for the women to have rights like those practised in the West you have to adopt everything. Though both the cultures western and the islamic countries have shortcomings. The West portrays women with their strip clubs, their brothels their swimsuit editions, their playboys. hustler etc etc as objects of sex based on their short lived beauty whereas on other hand in the islamic countries women are considered as sacred objects that should be kept in the houses, and not shown to the general public so as not to degrade their virtuosity.

So here we are to decide what to do?

I would be glad if you all disagree with me. dont expect replies from my side

generalizations don't do anyone any good...and are always wrong...

the rate of violence against women is higher elsewhere than the US...its just not reported since its considered legal in some countries...

when we talk to our non moslim friends like in QL ,we r to understand the difference between relgions and back grounds .

frankly i dont prefer to stuck in such dispute discussions ,but if u join it is your responsibilty to accept the way dialoge wiil go on.

I'm married muslim for 9 years ,never think or imagine to Hit (beat) my wife in any way while all knows the high rate of violence against women in US , so Qouran doesnt order me to do so ,but it put regulation from special cases you may not experience in your all life.

trust me..Muslims are not the exception...

If we were all perfect..we'd be in the book just like Mohammed or Jesus...but, we are all human..and as humans we make mistakes......

totally agree

also agree with algren about "Islam is the best religion...unfortunately muslims are the worst followers"

of course some of them really do that and thats what really anger me..

thanx

no one should lay a finger on anyone..male or female...

period, the end..

neither gender is property of the other one...we are all equals in God's eyes...since we are all made in His image...

sorry i did not mention that,

that was for Gypsy

I have heard someone saying once..(cant recall the name of teh speaker) Islam is the best religion...unfortunately muslims are the worst followers..

Islam as a religion has set down guidelines for mankind..and there has instances where these laws and guidlines have been exploited..Taliban,Sunni shia killings are all examples..

Yet Islams remains the fastest growing religion in the world..Women continue embracing islam with complete submission to god.

still yappin not listening,,,no facts,, thats always your way of living.

i talk by facts u just hate muslims. why? thats always your way of living.

1st i did not want to talk in religion cuz its not the subject and i knew what would be your responses cuz of mostly ignorance about our religion.

i thought this forum is for talking in facts not for attacking religions.. oh wait its not the forum its u. thats always your way of living.

hate.....

one thing u forgot to bring with u from ur "perfect west" is RESPECT.

u r really lack of RESPECT.

[img_assist|nid=46157|title=Dolly Craig|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

"Manila I'm coming home!"

The holy quran is the word of god almighty and hence cannot be contested. Islam is all about complete submission to Allah. And if quran says its permissable under circumstances to beat wives..Then thats how it is..Those who beleive it are "Muslims" and those who dont..are infidels.

I suggest u make an effort to learn how women lived in arabia or anywhere else in the world during pre islamic times. And the change islam has brought about for mankind. In arabia pagans used to bury females right when they were born. Today when a girl is born...its an occasion for celebration for the family!!

That's the way it's been translated. Don't fault me for what's written in your Holy book.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

have u ?

who translated and interpreted it to u ?

its a holybook. u dont like it doesnt mean u keep yaping lies about it.

u really were offensive for no reason. its the way u want to understand it as.

I have Ben Qatar and I still don't like it.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

why u keep doin this?

have u read the quran with its interpretation? no ?

then stop talkin like a blind who wants to blam somone who hates for his blindness...

that was in response to you previous post - sheesh I've too slow here!

but thats not the subject here

totally agree the west dishonour thier women by these things.

but, in this instance, I was referring to men hitting women in front of children anywhere in the world as being a bad example to the sons (and daughters!) to behave as their father has in disrespecting women.

The thread quoted 'Saudi's answer to Dr. Phil, Dr. Muhammad Al Arifi' and his comments, but DG's addendum to this was:

"As hilarious as this is, I also realise that wifebeating happens in every country in the world and I am writing this to help spread the word that this is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable".

Although the postings leant heavily toward the Koran's translation on the point in question, I was talking generally about the influence wife beating has on the male children. (I typed my post after having only read as far as page 2).

I accept you have had bad situations, locally, and am sorry that has been the case. I apologise if I seemed unsympathetic - I'm not.

Salaam

I'd rather be treated the way the West treats me (which by the way, is not as a sexual object by any way, shape or form, you need to stop looking at Playboy) then treated as a second class citizen little better then a dog the way the Quran says I should be treated.

Here's a question, who's supposed to punish the husband for his disobediance?

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

so when some muslims beat thier wives they seem very stick to quran and obay this certain rule. and they r far away from understanding the quran.

the interpretation that i and -good interpreters i trust- feel it close to islam is the one that states "beating" in this postion of speech as "beating the talk" which means not "talking to here". interpreted by some famouse imam that i dont really recall his name. but if authentication needed i shall.

again its not the religion at all its the culture. thats important islam doesnt allow "injustice" between murried couples at all.

thanx

the language of the quran is arabic and the word beating placed in the context of the sentence is clear...the difference occured of how and in what order the wife is dealt with for her disobedience..

one can read the Tafsir or the opinions of the companions of the prophet with respect to this verse....

Islam gave the woman her rights over 1400 years ago...the west (with their ideology of capitalism/democracy...to this day treat their women as sexual objects used to sell consumable goods...provide sexual gratification throught medium of televsion and movies; dishonour them and worse...)

Jauntie, I'm glad you seem to see why Oryx and I (and all the other single gals) get so upset by these stares. It's hard to believe but you can sense this attitude towards women behind the stares. This is not innocent flirtation or admiration, it's looking at a second class citizen.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

i ve just read this artocle and ifelt i should say something very very important and i dont know if it was mentioned before cuz i have not read all the comment yet. something thwt may be started the whole trash talk here. and remember i dont ever wish or need to add , remove or change something from "qur'an" to pleaze whoever is he or she.

the word "beating" has come in "qur'an" in "many" different meanings and positions. for example there is "beating an example" wich has come in qur'an as "for example". thats one of many and many that i dont recall right noe. the point is quran came with very old defficult words that was in its time very understanduble in these certain positions in the speech but now such words have many definations that qur'an interpreters have been argueing about.

so back to the word "beating", qur'an interpreters have been argueing about this word's meaning in this position of speech, some define it as real beating, some define it as fixing the attitude without the physical touching, some define it as not talking to her. and some ....

so the main point is "how do we understand the word or how do we want to?" not the booke or the religion. "so it came back to a cultural issue agian" .the last sentence is my openion

so pleaze before knowing the facts dont jump to a irreasonable and illogical conclusions.

and i did not give my openion about this issue cuz its in my conclusion a cultural issue. i just dont do it.

Knoxcollege College in Canada is NOT free by any streach of the imagination. I am over 50,000 $ in debt. Also student loans only cover tuition, not living expenses, which is pretty high in Canada.

Finally, most African Americans don't even make it that far because they have to drop out of high school to work and support their families. Or because they turn to drugs to forget how poor they are.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I mean that society in general accepts the hitting of children much more readily than the hitting of adults.

There are many more countries where it is against the law to hit an adult (assault) than against the law to hit your child. However if someone else hits you child it is considered assault.

_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Salax85, please do not think for a minute that I think it is acceptable to beat your children.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Children are to be loved unconditionally. I fail to see how 'whipping' them is helping them to grow up and be well-balanced. Yuk!

I am strongly against violence of any kind.

_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Whew, have not been able to be at the computer much today so have had a lot of catching up to do. Thanks everyone, it's been a really interesting read.

Firstly, salax, if this thread has convinced you that giving your wife a whipping is wrong then we have really accomplished something. You were honest to give your opinion and we did not have to beat you to make you change your mind.

See what you can accomplish with dialogue!!! :)

Secondly, I wish people were so outraged at the beating of children. Somehow giving your children a smack every now and then is much more socially acceptable than doing it to your wife.

Why???. I guess that is another topic for discussion.

_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

it was you and gypsy I was referring to when I said 'No wonder women feel they are being looked at like fresh meat to be devoured.' Just didn't want to name names again :P

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

I think if I read "Mrs" again I 'll log out . Can you live on QL without your frog ?

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Mrs gone out to buy a new pantie girdle? Could there be a drag club in town? Where is he?

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Ohh fiddledeedee.....

never forward...which most women appreciate

Scarlett huh ? lol what happened to your "speech coherence" I just got nothing ? Message Transmission failed lol

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I did not complete the sentence and you are trying to jump the gun.. Qataris simply come up to you and grab you.. hahahahahhahaha

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

give us a location where you going to watch fellas.... few of us needs to be watched... LOL... good night and have fun. and do sleep tight.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

skd - that is the point of my comment. they were not Qatari. I appreciate Qataris for NOT staring.

Scarlett a gourmet black pudding evening wouldnt keep me away.

These are hot boys! and they do their warm ups and stretches in their little shorts! :)Well I do think Talal's shorts are too long.

Al Arabi Stadium 8pm.

to sit and chat wt' you people...dang it...oryx...let's go watch the fellas...

Are you sure Oryx ? Then who actually stare at our QL girls?

Btw, I'm not Qatari but I swear I do not stare at girls who do not stare at me :d

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

i'm game!!!can't go my meself!! shall i have company??

Qatari men dont travel in Bus.. must be from somewhere else...

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

just ask charan...he'll know...and I believe what I post...tis better to believe in what you say..than to deceive...which is why I follow what I say...and never falter...

Frog - we dont!

But I really find it polite that Qatari men don't stare to show respect. I was in a dark car park yesterday on my own and 30+ men were waiting for the bus. All staring. It is unnerving.

I act cool but I dont feel it inside.

I think now I can shout from the roof top about she being a HE... what a center point (not one in Al sadd) but a mid point between two genders.

BTW... where is it... (if its not he nor she---- its gonna be IT)

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Scarlett lol... What a coinsidence I have just sent an e mail at work saying : Received and conceived . hahaha I tried to be brief so as not to encourage my boss sending me more feedback :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

by 'eck lass

i never want to see that running round in a pair of shorts.

however on a lighter note.... if you do want to see a good game of football + some aesethetic gratification may i recommend

Al Sadd vs Al Gharaffa on Thursday

Talal Baloushi 15 for Al Sadd is a hot boy

Saad Shamari 8 for Gharaffa is a hot boy.

It will be a theraputic antidote to the mug shot.

Oryx :) cool attitude . If you start feeling embarassed then you'll never feel at ease wherever you go.that's true stares could make you feel sick, but do we have any control over people's eyes?

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

and ohh myyyy.what havoc we first conceive when we practice to deceive...

'No wonder women feel they are being looked at like fresh meat to be devoured.'

I thought being stared at didn't bother you? And for those of us it does, that we are just being foolish. In your opinion.

'I KNOW gypsy and oryx complain about the 'bad' stares they seem to get, but ... oh I dunno. If you ignore it then what the heck! Not worth getting ones knickers in a twist abut it.'

Mrs is not reactionary enough to be Mrs Thatcher! :D

Quiz night - well I,ll have to hunt for one, don't get into Doha much these days, once a week if I'm lucky.

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

watch us roar...

wipe the liquid up..thus making more work for women...

Remember you all guys here came from us..we know for a fact that we should be submissive and you are dominant form us.But please don't take advantage of us just because we are a woman. We are still humans..have some respect.

Golden Rule:

"Do not do to others what you do not want to do unto you."

[img_assist|nid=46157|title=Dolly Craig|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

"Manila I'm coming home!"

...this forum is not yet over.

[img_assist|nid=46157|title=Dolly Craig|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

"Manila I'm coming home!"

mind you could be a senile Margaret Thatcher getting her own back on womankind,

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

but ... if any society condones a husband 'lightly' beating his wife, then how can the male children of that household EVER grow up to respect women!

No wonder women feel they are being looked at like fresh meat to be devoured. They would appear, to the sons of those second class ladies, to have less worth than the animals in the yard.

Apologies if this has been said somewhere already - it's a long thread.

we all know she is a he and is airsupply

Just to point out that when you wrote the following:

'No wonder those 2 wrinkled women appeared.'

You do know that no one of the same sex refers to people of their own gender using the identifying noun? It is used subconsciously in speech to identify the opposite gender.

Don't make the same mistake again. LOL But then again you always identify other posters as 'women', never using the identifier 'man' or 'men', so it's a bit too late now.

Subconsciously you have told everyone your gender in the way you write on this forum.

As I say, just a handy tip for the future.

I don't go to mythical places with strange men.

-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.

Ohh fiddledeedee.....

Oh men.. wrinkles is now a social disease..

This includes you. It must smell home to you too with the other 2 wrinkled women.

Scar...do whatever you like & expose as much info you like...I don't give a damn about you or your info...

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

ahh ...we dare to compare... he should come back as mrs/mr...sex change extraodaire...

care to compare????

Mrs - is this your post feminist stance?

being rude and nasty?

go read some Germaine Greer

otherwise you are a sad misogynist

lets add 'wrinkles' to Mrs disease list.

Now what would be cool if we could get Dr Phil and get him to have a face to face with this Saudi guy.

I like Dr Phil...no pyscho babble just tells it how he sees it with common sense, experience and education.

he always has to make an a** of himself..no matter WHO he pretends to be at the time...

that??? my physical appearance, you haven't even met me yet...so how can you say what I look like??? besides..physical appearance is nothing...but if you want to know..ask those that have met me in person...I judge people on what they bring to the table..never on how they appear...OLD American indian saying that i take to heart...

very funny! You are making the attacks and using dirty language here! Which makes you the ugliest wrinkled woman here! (or do they just count you with women?)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

mrs...you are the most hateful person I have ever seen...male or female... learn to open your heart...and forgive...and be YOURSELF..not someone or some gender you are not...

women have to be very strong during labor as giving birth is not easy rather very painful. it does come with many other problems that go away with time.

Three things are very painful, child birth. backbone pain. and the kidney stone

(guys i am done talking med stuff as i am not a doctor and never will be sadly. though sometimes i feel like joining med school but at 26 its not easy studying books again)

but we learned to forgive and forget..unlike you...

Now it's really becoming boring. It's so lame to talk about such a subject as "anal sex" every now and then . shame.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

unlike you...

I have no idea why you choose to bo such an a**...but you are...

I can't even leave it like I meant it...dang my upbringing...

did I hit a nerve to make you so pissed off or is the typical language they use at homes in Texas?

Were you raised on such language?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

isn't school free in canada and What happened to the good old student loan in the university. and what happened to the social service system of canada. I might have not lived in TO for long but i heard everyone in the university takes the loan.

The kids in Asia who make it to the top are usually from poor back grounds.

KnoxColledge, I don't know if you know many African Americans, but most of them (even the single parents) are quite religious, so your argument doesn't hold water. The reasons for them dropping out of school, etc, is poverty, not because they are "turning away from God".

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Well in the sex ed books I had in high school they said that as long as you take proper precautions there are no ill health effects. In all honesty however, nothing causes more change and needs more medical help than a pregnant woman, and that is supposed to be perfectly natural.

My ex boyfriend was Saudi Arabian Mrs. So yup, that's everyday life in Saudi. Actually on the contrary, in the West no woman would be likely to stay with a man who was cheating on her with the maid, Tolerating adultry is a much bigger problem here then in the West.

As for Shuabi's uncle, in most cases if one of the spouses has commited adultry they are denied anything in the divorce, there are exceptions to this (not many, but usually dealing with spousal abuse and neglect, etc), which is why I was asking Shaubi for more details. Nothing in this world is Black and White, courts especially have to take everything into consideration, especially in divorce proceedings.

As for your comments on my ability to care for a child, you really do seem to hear what you want to hear Mrs. I'm not gay, which means, that even if I have a illegitimate child I'm not going to sleep with a woman. Your idea that just because I've "sinned" by having a child out of wedlock means I will suddenly decide to change my sexuality is really, no insult meant, quite naive. Sexuality is not so easy to switch. Also according to your God it's ok to lightly beat women, so sorry if I don't believe that the way forward to a healthy society is through God. Frankly the way I look at it, the way I think, which is live and let live, is the way to a much happier, healthier society where everyone is accepted for who they are (as long as they don't hurt anyone) and nobody is prejudiced against because of the way they were born.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

no matter what religion you believe in, abusing wife, husband,children or family member is not right what so ever. and inhuman. always a way to communicate. if failed one time, try second time, if failed second time, try third time, if third time failed, keep trying 1000 times. dont ever give up. beside is your family. we as a human being blessed with mind, soul, brain and emotion. we should can always forgive and forget. at the end, if you really cannot take it, give up and move on. find something new. we are smarter then animal therefore we should act more wisely then the animal. SAY NO TO DOMESTIC ABUSE. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Raider i was talking about black students. the asian community has a very strong family system and still quite some marriages are arrange marriages there. Asians in Toronto tend to marry. Most Asian women have kids after they are married. whereas in the blacks many women are single parents. I am talking statistically

There was once a guy who was using speed and was gay and the doctors discovered that he had some kinda HIV virus that was very resistant to the retroviral drugs. Unfortunately he died before the tests could be conducted. it might be because of amphetamine (spell check) or because he was gay. that was the conclusion of the researchers.

At McGill University we had a proportionate amount of all ethnicities, the only skew appeared at the honor roll where like I said, a disproportionately large amount of asian students graduated with honors.

P.S. Gotta be heading home...thanks all for a lively discussion...well done DG on the topic thread....hope to see you all tomorrow.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Char :D No way .

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

ever been to ryerson or the toronto university? if yes then you should know how many students are blacks there?

even the john hopkins? or the berkeley?

Dont get me wrong folks. its just today I wanted to take sides with the infamous Mrs. hope She is reading this.

But as a Die hard Montrealer, we HATE (ok too strong a word)....we dislike Torontonians! LOL

I cannot confirm or deny what your friend told you Knox....All I know is that when I attended university, we had students from ALL ethnic groups, religions etc...though a disproportionately large percentage of honor students were asian ;) (I swear I'm not making it up).

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

An american scholar of islam (Yusuf Estes )say that the striking that is mentioned in the Quraan *DOES NOT* mean hitting.

It become obvious what he was getting at by giving an example of a baseball player who swings his bat .Just the MOTION of the bat is reffered to as strike whether the ball is hit or not .

So if a wife makes a mistake he isn't to hit her but is allowed to make a striking motion with his hand so as in to stop her .

Many consfusions come up from translating from arabic to english .Translators try to find accurate words but speakers of arabic will know at times there does not exist one word in English to explain the Arabic.

Anyhow ,Muslims know that Prophet Muhammad (saw) NEVER lifted a finger at ANY of his wives and if he is our role model then its his example we are trying to follow.

Have you been to Toronto? one day I asked my colleage why arent there any black students in the universities in Canadaand he said as many of them drop outta school. This was in Canada and in Toronto

We do have gangs....don't get me wrong....but its not an epidemic like the states....and ineterestingly enough the 2 biggests gang problems we have are Triads on the west coast (Asian gangs) and the Hells Angels on the East coast (almost exclusively whites)....isn't that funny? =p

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

moreover the fe-ces contain lots of bacteria and other stuff and having sex without the use of contraceptives can result in many complications.

No it isn't! They are prone to join gangs because it's an out from poverty!

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Frog - Sex education ??????????????????????????

1.Aha! So I wasn't talking about soap opera after all! I was talking about the everyday life in some communities!

2.I never supported such a severe punishment as legalized killing of people committing adultry! But remember the story of that uncle? If his wife was truely sleeping with another man, and if there is any justice in that man-made law, she should not get a single penny (even if they decided not to put her in jail)

3.Saudi life style is NOT an example to follow. I reject it!

4."If I was with a man who didn't treat my child properly, he'd be out the door"

Exactly my point! Some women kept making many mistakes & ended up with lots of "out the door" men! The damage was on them & their kids, more than on "out the door" men!

5."will always do what I feel to be in the best interest of my child"

Not finding a decent man to love & be loved by him in order to start a loving family & have kids, but instead being pregnant from a man who might turn out to be bad where he will end up "out the door" does not make you a candidate who will know what is the best for the child! (IMHO)

6."That would require me to be gay"

Nothing can stop you then, coz:

Who cares if it rains down on you when you are soaked wet?

7."even if I did get married and pregnant, what's to stop my husband from running out on me and leaving me a single parent anyway?"

Coz religion, values, principals, listening to your elders, not living a bohemian life, insisting on leading a life of goodness & virtue, believing that God will lead you to the right path by giving you the wisdom to make right choices....all these things will HELP you (not 100% guaranteed) find the right man to love & be loved by, where both of you would commit to marry & devot yourselves to the family life. It is not a game where anyone decides to stop playing suddenly!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Do you know why in North America the black kids have such a high dropout rate from school. why is it that many black kids end up in gangs and are drawn towards drug addiction and etc etc

(Definitely no offence meant to the BLACKS)

It is because the percentage of black kids being raised by single women is very high as their fathers just abandon them and dont care about them. Thats why the black kids are so prone to join gangs

I would rather say : he was perfectly human :) He had what we call " Aissma" He didn't commit any "serious" mistake during his life.Once he frowned before a blind man ( Abassa wa tawala an jaaho laama ...) Every time he made an error God intervened immediately to correct and even to blame him. He had to set the example for all muslims, so it's quite understandable :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

This is bad..really..

[img_assist|nid=46157|title=Dolly Craig|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

"Manila I'm coming home!"

That's actually an urban myth knoxcollege, you can't become incontinent from too much an al sex. Your anus is meant to streacth to let out much bigger things then you'd be Ah-hem, putting in so to speak.

Also yes, the vagina does produce it's own lubrication, HOWEVER, many women have a problem with this which is why synthetic products must be used, so as not to cuase tears and infection.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Check out www.senshido.com IF you are interested ;) But I really am a teddy bear...I swear.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I have no idea about its medical implecation....but it won't affect me one way or another (thankfully)....now SMOKING.....there's a social disease we should talk about! LOL

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

see I am backing you up. waiting for your replies Raider

Ragnarock ....In fact it was for the "sunshido" . Dunno what sorta fight is that, but I used to respect people who can "beat"me :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

In normal sex the vagi-nal walls can produce lubrication by themselves but as the person ages the lining of walls starts to thin and they are not able to produce as much of lubrication as before but thats normal as the sexual drive also lessens with age.

Moreover the normal sex organs have a natural cleansing system called uri-nation

Moreover frequent an-al sex can destroy the sphincter muscles and this can result in incontinence

Sorry guys for being gross but can help it as thats the only way to present some logical answers

For the record I have no problems with gays, lesbians, queers or transgenders as I view all of them as human beings just like others

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I skipped your name for the sake of men solidarity :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Pm , He never did :) and he once said : " the best among you will not do that ( beating wives)". But you know how he was .... a perfect man on earth.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

The problem with homosexuality is that if it is practised on a frequent basis, it can lead to many medical problems. It can lead to fissures, fistulas, incontinence. moreover there is no freakin lubrication and you can easily tear up the highly sensitive (it has lots of nerves) lining inside the rectum.

You forgot about me? lol =p

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

People in a tolerant and civilized society realize that the only soul they should worry about is their own, and everybody else soul is their own business.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

It's really a pity Gypsy and Mrs , you're turning every thread to a personal fight with endless arguments and counter-arguments.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I am not calm....and not serious, therefore you will not enlighten me...fine by me....I was fairly certain that you could not asnwer them logically anyways ;)

Stay safer all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I guess you are not gonna let Mrs. get off very easily. You do catch the weak points and exploit themt to the full extent. Keep on going, I am waiting to hear Mrs. logics.

I am waiting to see how you make Raider understand why homosexuality is condemned in Islam.

Mrs. just to help you wrt homosexuality. You can add some points from medical literature like fissures, fistula, incontinence etc etc

Just making this debate more interesting

(For the record I am in no way against homosexuals or lesbians or transgenders or transvestites)

The rights of its citizens to live free from persecution no matter how small a minority they are or how many people disagree with their choices....an open tolerant society has no problem with a single parent household, and they result (most of the time) in a positive and unbiased upbringing and the child is not "warped" in any way....I even know people raised by a single parent and they are the most wonderful and well adjusted human beings you will ever meet....so please tell us how they are warped?

How close to god a society is usually corelates to how underdeveloped it is (to be fair this is not ALWAYS the case...just usually)....the most civilized nations....and those with the highest standard of living have very clear separation of state and religion....its not a coincidence!

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Once you calm down, don't take things rapidly, be serious, have a little bit of wisdom, stop making wrong assumptions in order to have some credit of wisdom, I will then consider providing you with some useful information. With this attitude of yours, you are only confirming that your opinions are all questionable & that you have no intention of accepting different opinions!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

You misunderstood the Quote Mrs. The quote was from the head of state saying the Government has no business in the bedrooms of the people, meaning it is not the governments right to dictate when and with whom two consenting adults should have sex. In the case of adultry it is supposed to mean that the government will not interfer unlessed asked, in civil court.

Look at Saudi Arabia, it's a death sentence there to commit adultry, yet it happens all the time. My ex-boyfriends father was sleeping with his maid, no one said anything because no one, not even his wife, thought it was worth him getting a wall pushed on him for it. Most people prefer to keep adultry and infidelity a family problem and not make it public. If you want to see people drug out into the street, beaten and shot for commiting adultry, that's fine, you live in a country where you can have your spouse killed for it, however many many people don't agree with you.

As for the reasons you gave for me not having a baby out of wedlock:

1) He will still have 2 parents ( I can't produce a child out of thin air). I grew up with many kids that only had 1 parent, whether because their parents divorced and they grew up with either their mother or father, or becasue they were born out of wedlock and raised by their mother or father, or because their mother or father died when they were quite young (in one poor girls case, both her parents died when she was a year old). None of them seemed to have any issues.

2)I know lots of men who are married to women that already had children from a previous relationship, they treat the child just fine. And who's to say they won't have relationship with their natural father? Also by saying this you are saying adopted parents don't view the children they adopt the same way. If I was with a man who didn't treat my child properly, he'd be out the door.

3)If I've made the decision, knowingly to have this child, then I've considered this and will always do what I feel to be in the best interest of my child. They would be the most important thing in my life.

4)That would require me to be gay, which I'm not, so it isn't an option. However, my mother's best friend and her wife adopted a boy whos about 25 now, and he's very well adjusted. Much more so then some people on this forum.

Finally, even if I did get married and pregnant, what's to stop my husband from running out on me and leaving me a single parent anyway? Or do those rules not apply if you've somehow got the magic stamp of marriage.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I can also consider the countries that legalise illegitimate children as "undeveloped" countries. Development has nothing to do on the distance you want to keep your country away from God!

Even in "1st class, nice, shiney...etc" countries, those points I highlighted are still valid

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

The book tells you what is allowed and what is not! So there is no ambiguity! Great.....pork is BANNED, check.....homosexuality is banned, check.....wife beating IS allowed....hmm....you agree with the first 2 but disagree with the 3rd....ok you're up to the podium....please tell us all WHY??

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

but if you wanna stick to homosexuality & pork, well in Quran homosexuality is condemned (so as in other religions) while pork is TOTALLY BANNED.

As for divorce, it says: "the uggliest Halal to God/Alla is divorce" (Halal means an allowed act). Can you understand that verse?

Can you understand what it says about "polygamy":

"You are allowed a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th wife on the condition that you will be TOTALLY JUST/FAIR with them, and We are assuring you that YOU WILL NEVER BE JUST/FAIR"

Of course there are conditions before you EVEN start to consider remarrying!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Does the local law protect women in that regard?

ALL the points you listed have no impact on a child in an enlightened society where single parent households are accepted....but yes they might backfire in a backwards undeveloped part of the world....but they still do not prove that Gypsy is doing harm to herself, her child, or society.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

but then I am failing to understand you. I remember you said that no one has the right to interfer in what goes on in the bedrooms of the people as long as they are doing it by their own free will!

I will give you some examples about the harm if you gave birth now:

1.The child will be psychologically affected because other kids have 2 parents

2.You might have a future boyfriend where this guy might NEVER treat your son/daughter in the same way like their biological father

3.You might keep changing boyfriends (since you don't have a husband) and this will cause more psychological damage to the child

4.You might even have a girlfriend, and this will be a BIG impact on the kid

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Gypsy ... you're being sarcastic :) I never qualify it as a value though :D and... I'm not trying to convince you of anything at all, so relax and keep your mind on "receiving" mode .

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Do not take my lack of understanding to be caused by speed or anger....it's just the lack of logic that is throwing me off....I am calm....and I have read them all very slowly....they still make no sense.

Are you telling me that eating of pork is "not allowed" and "allowed"? No, clearly it is condemned.

So is homosexuality "not allowed" & "allowed"? Again, clearly condemened.

But when it comes to wife beating it is "not allowed" & "allowed"? How is this possible?

You were ABSOLUTE in your condemnation of homosexualiy yesterday...and you cited holy text as your proof of its divine righteousness....and today you are telling me nothing is absolute?

Then you wonder why I am confused?

This kind of logic comes accross as that of a "selective" believer....correct me if I am wrong but you must either believe in the holy text....ALL of it....or you are not a believer....can you believe in half of the bible and be a christian....half of the koran and be a muslim? maybe i'm missing something here....please enlighten me.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Never beat your wife with a closed mind. This is a maxim I live by.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

Frog, what am I supposed to be having an open mindied conversation about? The value of beating your wife?

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

and not take things rapidly. You need to be balance & sincere in order to understand, Rock.

There is NO contradiction in holy books! The case you are describing (condoned by a holy book while another is condemned....and in another country the exact opposite is true) does not exist! This is only in your imagination. I did not accept some or reject some of the divine laws. Calm down, Rock! Nothing is absolute! Do you understand this? It does not mean that religions & holy books are not absolute. You need to be wiser to understand the teachings. The meaning/interpretation is relative. It is not absolute. You are "allowed" more than one wife but you are "not allowed"! It is not absolute! You have to understand it with a pure soul, then with a bright brain!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

"But...ah...wait..you also believe that the parents are free to commit adultry and that no one has the right to interfer (even if they have caused great damage to other families involved in the adultry)"

Ah ah! Now who;s putting words in my mouth! I said I don't believe that commiting adultry is a criminal offence and it is a problem, and an issue to be resolved between the parties involved! This can mean (and usually does) mean civil suits and divorce settlements.

As for a pregnant female without marriage. I mean, really, if I choose at the age of 32 to have a child, because I realize that I will probably never have a man ask me to marry him, how does that harm anyone?

You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Even if you say I am none of those things.....when we find people like that....religious text are so notoriously ambiguous that when the SAME text is read by 5 different scholards, you get 5 different interpretations.....do you not see the danger in that? Who is qualified to make that assessment....or do we each make it for ourselves?

For instance I would LOVE to know how you decided that wife beating is outdated, but pork eating or homosexuality is not!

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

In any event there are no homosexuals in Qatar and as I have recently understood, there are none in Iran or Saudi Arabia. The only places that have homosexuals are in the corrupt west.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

You need to be serious, balanced, sincere while you read those books, and you will understand what is being outdated & what is not.

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

But if one is condoned by a holy book while another is condemned....and in another country the exact opposite is true...then how can "divine" law be our guide? And besides....you yourself advocate the laws of holy books but accept some and reject others....it just doesn't make sense to me.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Gypsy ,

I never asked you to like the Koran :) I did ask you to be tolerant with such issues the same way you're with other issues :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Gypsy ,

I never asked you to like the Koran :) I did ask you to be tolerant with such issues the same way you're with other issues :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

if there is a family that has a homosexual son/daughter or a pregnant female without marriage, then the damage is already done! But...ah...wait..you also believe that the parents are free to commit adultry and that no one has the right to interfer (even if they have caused great damage to other families involved in the adultry)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

IF you think Islam's ruling on wife beating is outadted....ie it made sense 1400 years ago but do not today....then why stop there....what else MAY have made sense in earlier times but not today?

And i'm not just picking on Islam.....same goes for the bible...and all the other "divine" texts!

Is it too much to hope that you guys are starting to see the light? LOL makes you want to jump up and sing Hallelujah! LMAO

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

in order for you to understand! The 2 extreme muslim people are in Saudi & Lebanon. Everyone of them is extreme in their life style although both are arabs, and both are muslims. But being homosexual in Lebanon is dealth with differently than being homosexual in Saudi. You as a Canadian maybe outraged by a neighbor who is a woman beater while an arab would be disgusted to be a neighbor of a homosexual. I think that both are totally rejected. I have personally avoided relationships with both parties...until the woman beater was cured & stopped it (while the homosexual didn't)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Oh come on guys, Salax is just trying to keep his future wife in line right. She's gets mouthy, nice little kick to the gut, disrespects him, slap to the face, forgets to put dinner on the table, throw her down the stairs. This is normal for a husband to want to do to the woman he loves right?

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

You really put a hot topic on the forum today as you can see. I would like just like to a hold of Dr. Muhammad Al Arifi for one minute.

Work is finished

canarybird i second that!!, salax85, the mentality you have is exactly what's wrong with our world and it won't get you anywhere.

They didn't beat you hard enough lol.

Dear God MRs! What kind of Westerners do you know! I mean very very few families might be going through one of those problems (not the gay son cause that's not a problem) but only people in soap operas ever experience all of them!

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

You would hit your wife and stand by whilst your sister got hit!

Oh no - please tell me this is a wind up.

Please tell me this isn't true.

I dont know why you would think of hitting her, you're the one who's for wife beating. My point is if you do hit her then how do u expect her to trust you? it was allowed by religion when women had limited knowledge and were not allowed out of their houses, but women now are more educated now and know their rights do u think they'll put up with an abusive husband?, i know i wouldn't.

There are so many worse things that can happen than the son being gay....and I know you don't mean just Canada...these things occur everywhere....yes even in Canada.

What I was talking about is how some think that beating their wife is "better" than being gay....because homosexuality is a worse "social disease" than wife beating....I wonder where they would get such an idea (If a holy book tells them this)?

I'm still surprised (though I must admit VERY pleasantly) that you do not condone wife beating, despite divine wisdom tell us differently....good for you!

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Salax - would you want your sister's husband to do this?

Would you want your future daughter to be married to someone like this.

Oh and if you ever fancy hitting a woman then please see me first....

sad little men who can only use violence and not intelligence to get their own way do NOT scare me.

A little advice to you before you give an opinion on wife beating, turn that subject around and see if you would like your wife beating you for some small reason.

You cannot discuss a topic on just hersay you have to know what you are talking about.

Marital problems have never been solved by beating the women be sure about this.

community is rotten or something! Not at all! What I was saying to Gypsy:

If the father is enjoying all his day & night with his secretary, if the mother starts her day with alcohol then spends most her time in her bedroom with her boyfriend, if the daughter is high on drugs & is pregnant by some unknown ex-boyfriend, of course there will be no harm if the son turns out to be gay!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Salax's dream girls DO exist....granted not in most cities...probably some rual areas...and they most likely will not even be literate...but if they grow up in households where this occurs, they think its normal!

Very sad but true =(

Stay Safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

As DG said in the beginning it is an actual fact that many men beat their wives for various reasons and if and intellectual on Saudi TV gives them an open door to beattheir wives - what else will they do they will go home and do it. Misinterpretation is what it is.

Say it ain't so Salax. You will only marry someone who will let you cane her. I bet they are lining up for the opportunity of becoming Mrs Salax. Those lucky girls!!!!!!

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

he has no idea let alone experience and is talking through a "hole in his hat", if just goes by heresay then he shouldn't take part in a discussion he knows nothing about.

Why complain about the rain when you're wet?

Because there is a difference between a drizzle and a terrential downpouring.

Littering and raping both harm the community....but there is a HUGE difference bewteen the two!

I still maintain that 2 consenting adults, in the privacy of their bedroom, harm society a LOT less than a man beating his wife (or even vice versa on some rare occasions).

Believe in the Koran literally if you like....figuratively if you like...or not at all.....there seems to be a concensus that only the truly zealous men would apply THAT rule.....but ever other muslim I know would balk at the idea.....strange how its not the same thing with other rules....there is definitely a discrepancy there.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

ROFL Salax! Do you acutally think you will find a woman that will accept you beating her! My god Man join the 21st century Please! You CANNOT beat your wife no matter what the circumstances, and if you do you belong in jail!

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

The thought of a husband beating his wife is outrageous, this is the man she relies on to protect her and to keep her safe and then he turns around and beats her!?, what kind of relationship would that produce?. What kind of message would that send the children? that it's ok to beat and disrespect women? Its no wonder that we have so much corruption and inequality in the world, the children are exposed to it from a young age and carry it with them as adults.

Salax you sound very inexperienced with women.

The quickest way to lose anyone is to be violent.

Tell me how can violence ever be part of a loving relationship?

Well praise be to Allah I wasn't born in your country if that is the way you carry on.

Frog if you want to discuss why the Quran is absoultly wrong in allowing men to beat women, even lightly, by all means. IF you choose to follow a book that allows spousal abuse, that's your perogative, but don't expect me to like the book.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

"i wud do beat her if required jus to make sure I dont Lose her". You must really love her if you would only beat her so as not to lose her. I can see how that would work. You must be quite some Lothario.

Have you always been so good with the ladies? Does it come naturally to you or did you have to work on it by beating them?

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

Well it is definately not you dear, there are others (please keep me in my cage because if I ever get out) lol.

amnesia ????? who's that man ?

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I think HE needs to be beaten. Such a stupid man!

Talking like that is BS.

__________________________

salax85

Well coming from someone who is not married, and who was looking for a (friend) you seem to know a great deal about what is going on between a man and a woman in a marriage.

Frog

"[RK]:The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.".

Just a small comment to the above paragraph, men are no longer the only bread earners, time has changed this theory, many men depend on the woman to work with them in order to be able to afford accommodation etc. The righteous women are now earning their own salaries - so there is a small dscrepancy here - do you agree?

Gypsy ,

Unfortunately, I don't think you needed any other reasons to hate any religion on earth. I just expected an open-minded discussion , rather than narrow views and plenty of prejudices. I remember I used to hate Math classes , but when I grew up I saw how important is that subject for any future career. The moral of the story is : We do usually hate things that we ignore :) Leave a space for doubt as you always do Dear Gypsy. Btw , most of Your posts are controversial , but I never refused to argue because of that. I just like intelectual exchange . It's not less fierce, but probably better than physical violence :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

"everyone knows who craves more once deserted"

(I am sure it is men)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Good Afternoon all ,

Amigo, I did my best to find something about the context of the koranic verse.

The Prophet Mohammed ( PBUH) used to condemn every man who beat his wife .... However , after ALlah ALmighty God told him that men have the right to "beat" their wives under particular circumstances, Our Prophet ( PBUH) stopped the execusion of the judgement he pronounced against Saad Ben Rabiia whose wife Habiba bent Zaid had complained to the Prophet about her husband beating her. The prophet also commented on that event by saying : "We wanted something , but God wanted something else, and God's will is (always) good" and he added " the best among you will not do that ( not beat their wives)"

The Islamic Scientist Mohammed Talbi assetrs that this rule was a temporary one tightly related to the period of time when it was issued and this would mean that this is not applicable to all places and periods"

بيـد أنّ نبي الإسلام القائل بأن النّساء شقائق الرجال أضاف: " ولن يضرب خياركم". وفي هذا السياق يؤكــد لنا عالم الإسلاميات الأستاذ محمد الطالبي أن إباحة تعنيف المرأة هي إباحة كراهة أي أنها حكم ظرفي وهذا يعني أنها غير صالحة لكل زمان و مكان

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Good Afternoon all ,

Amigo, I did my best to find something about the context of the koranic verse.

The Prophet Mohammed ( PBUH) used to condemn every man who beat his wife .... However , after ALlah ALmighty God told him that men have the right to "beat" their wives under particular circumstances, Our Prophet ( PBUH) stopped the execusion of the judgement he pronounced against Saad Ben Rabiia whose wife Habiba bent Zaid had complained to the Prophet about her husband beating her. The prophet also commented on that event by saying : "We wanted something , but God wanted something else, and God's will is (always) good" and he added " the best among you will not do that ( not beat their wives)"

The Islamic Scientist Mohammed Talbi assetrs that this rule was a temporary one tightly related to the period of time when it was issued and this would mean that this is not applicable to all places and periods"

بيـد أنّ نبي الإسلام القائل بأن النّساء شقائق الرجال أضاف: " ولن يضرب خياركم". وفي هذا السياق يؤكــد لنا عالم الإسلاميات الأستاذ محمد الطالبي أن إباحة تعنيف المرأة هي إباحة كراهة أي أنها حكم ظرفي وهذا يعني أنها غير صالحة لكل زمان و مكان

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

define "modern" countries! Turkey? Malaysia? Singapore? Japan? Kenya? South Africa? Peru?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

I was referring to a relationship between an adult & a teenager! That was my point.

Other relationships WHICH YOU think don't harm the Canadian community, well they say:

"Who cares if it rains down on you when you are already soaked wet?"

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

I believe it is desert. (Isn't it sad I'm an editor!)

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I was wondering what an "illegal relationship" was, and worried if I have had any myself :p

In Australia the laws on these sorts of things are generally centered around consent - so intercourse involving the young, people lacking mental capacity (through either the provision of drugs, or mental disorders), non-consensual intercourse between adults of age, and adults are all "illegal".

There are also illegal sexual acts (such as having sex in public places, for instance) but in this case it is the act, and not the relationship, which is deemed illegal.

I'd be surprised if any modern country had any laws fundamentally different to this.

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Oh and Mrs. The only illegal relationships in Canada are those between and adult and a child, and those between a person and an animal. All others are legal because they are all consensual and don't harm anyone.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

it doesnt say "some are wise...some are...otherwise" in the Quran :-)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

I'm sorry, but NO man is a protector or maintainer or me, and I owe my obdience to NOone! Thank you for giving me more reasons to dislike Islam Frog.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

For more accuracy here is The koranic text that was debated :

Alrrijalu qawwamoonaAAala alnnisa-i bima faddalaAllahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabimaanfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatunhafithatun lilghaybi bima hafithaAllahu waallatee takhafoonanushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunnafee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakumfala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kanaAAaliyyan kabeeran الرجال قوامون علي النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم علي بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلاتبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا

[YA]: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

[RK]:The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I agree Alexa but dont keep it to just men.:)Thats why I am more keen on finding the context of the whole thing.

Life is too short and if u r not living on the edge then u r taking up too much space.

Exactly Alexa! Nothing wrong with religion itself. It is those who do wrong interpretations!

People need to be pure & honest with themselves while reading a whole verse to get the whole/general idea behind it.

God knows when & how to punish those women beaters when they have mis-applied religious verses in their favor! And so on for many things in our life.

A wise man needs only to think what would he have felt if he saw his father beating his mother one day! Such a thought alone should prevent him from using violence against women!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

I have the Quran here on my desk and of course it mentions that, but it should and does not allow men to think there is a "free for all" and that wife bashing is ok. As DG said it definately is not.

I don't think a couple of comments on QL will make people change to Atheism if that was the case then they are very light hearted believers lol.

and you will understand everything. Cool down! You are taking things rapidly & with prior wrong assumption!

Doesn't "illegal relations" exist in Canada?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Just want to go to a scholar for the context thing. As far as I know there r certain sujects in the Quran (again I am not qualified) which were revealed to address a certain event or a particular issue of that particular age.

Lets keep the debate healthy.

Life is too short and if u r not living on the edge then u r taking up too much space.

Salax what a load of rubbish

We have a legal system which means that society can judge us if we don't adhere to the agreed rules... we are not above judgement on earth otherwise you would have anarchy

and I am not taking my moral guidance from a rap artist.

In many countries now - no-one (in theory) is above the law...

Now go back to wondering why you don't have a girlfriend whilst you continue advocating violence against women

What are "illegal" relations?

And in Canada (I can't speak for ALL the west), the father of the child is legally resposible wether he wants to marry the mother or not....so i'm not sure where you are getting your information from.

Besides, what exaclty are you implying that one is better than the other?

And Mrs....if religion is ambiguous about rules (ie they are allowed and not allowed)...then does this apply to everything? Ie is homosexuality allowed and not allowed? you seemed certain it wasn;t period! So when do we know? and how on earth can you use these laws if they are so ambiguous?

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Amigo, speaking to religious scholars doesn't help at times. I have done that few times with my doubts, and never could justify the answers that I got. They sound like they are in a bubble and always try to loop you with one theory after another which again causes more confusion.

Eventually you are left with options to keep quiet, by believing the unseen or doubt the word of God.

-----------------------------------------

2300 QL Points!!!

Yay! Way to go Ray!

-----------------------------------------

www.e4u.name.qa

I read some misconceptions here, I would like to clarify some things. Islam is not a relegion of violence as most people in the west think (talk about being close minded, more like ignorant). As a matter of fact beating up is quite far, if a man even gets angry at his wife he will be punished severly on the day of judgement.

Lets look at the west for a min. the trend that they started of having illegal relations with women, date them, have sex, get them preg. and the leaves, the common relations based on lies found in western civilization. Thats how close minded they are, can't even afford to take responsibility of their actions. At the end they dont have any explaination, they stop calling and pretend like nothing happen, why not focus on such cowardly act before talking about "hitting the wives".

It's true that alot of arabs beat up their wives, but that doesnt have to do anything with what relegion they follow.

It's funny how people responsible for destroying the world are complain about men beating their wives, which isn't even their business lol.

Is this how dumb people are in usa and canada?

It's always the small things that make big differences.

like you, I'm quite confused by the ambiguous statements made my MRS.

If MRS argues that there are 'no absolutes', as she has in this forum, then surely we must take that to mean that the bible is just a book of amusing short stories accompanied by some guidelines for how we could consider living our lives.

Right?

Is it not strange that mrs , gypsy and oryx all r women.Would like get enlightened on the origin of female homosexuality.:)

On a serious note: cant comment under what context the wife hitting was allowed. Will go to a scholar and try to understand the whole thing and would like to come back to u guys.Also got to have a full text of what those scholars discussed.

Life is too short and if u r not living on the edge then u r taking up too much space.

You have to be a wise person, balanced, creditable without making wrong assumption, then read all the explanations of Frog (and other books in case you were interested in deeper investigation), then you will come to realize how polygamy, for example, is "allowed" and "not allowed"

Muslims are not angles. They are humans who can be non-religions & living in sin, just like all other people. This is why there is judgment day, heaven and hell

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

This post have got way out of control and just reading it confuses me.

But Frog - please note that Slapping is NOT allowed in Islam - for any reason. In fact we are not even allowed to slap an animal - let alone a human being.

Canary ... may I quote you first ? :D

>> " if a Muslim is involved it will be used a a pretext to argue against the religeon itself) "

I'm perfectly aware of the risk of such an argumentation . I just feel I had to speak out my mind , and clarify Islam's position, based on plain texts . I hope I'll not have people converting to Atheism here :D

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Am I the only one seeing inconsitencies here? If I am please tell me!

Yes i know YOU think so Mrs....but if you're the only one, then that says lots....IF on the other hand I am the only one....then THAT will tell ME lots too.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

suspected of witchcraft, no one here is calling to burn homosexuals. We are only human after all & we have our own mistakes. There is God who will deal with them according to what the holy books say!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

You think religious laws have no absolutes??

So anything forbidden (like say pork or homosexuality) are just suggestions???

What about the 10 comandments....thou shalt not kill....not absolute?

My understanding of religious law was that it was absolute! and IF this is not the case....then HOW do you know when it can be bypassed....ie why is the religious ban on homosexuality absolute?

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

PLEASE PLEASE do not be offended....I am NOT trying to mock anyone...as a non believer, i'm just trying to understand how believers think....

IF beating your wife is sanctioned in the holy book....does that mean that EVERY muslim must condone it or they are a blasphemer??? I ask because I know MANY muslims who are against it, but I never knew it was in the Koran. Are they defying their religion??

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

You need to go back & read all the explanations by Frog. They were good. Then you will understand what are the things that are allowed in religion but are not prefered! (polygamy & divorce included)

Also, there is nothing called "absolute"! Anyway, it is not easy to make you see since you have made many wrong assumptions on my behalf!

Andrew, nice finding! Serve him right! Actually both parties (in a homosexualy relationship) are condemned in religions!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Sorry I get the 2 confused...no disrespect intended.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I'm just trying to better understand the other side.

Of course Mrs (and anyone else for that matter) has the right to any opinion she wants....i'm just struggling to follow how she arrived at her beliefs....I had thought it was religious indoctrination....but now she just went against a divine laws!

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I chose my way for a great number of reason and I am very straight forward - I would never change my path because of a few comments I don't agree with.

I like a good discussion any day of the week - however, wife beating is something I myself have been confronted with - this has nothing itself to do with Islam (but if a Muslim is involved it will be used a a pretext to argue against the religeon itself) so understand my comments too please.

So don't worry about these things I don't take the comments personal unless someone is insulting me.

Parts of Turkey are still highly under developed - especially in mountain regions and in the very East. So progress is slow there and will take time to change. This is a comment not meant to knock Turkey but just a fact.

if Mrs. or others think of homosexuality as a disease let them think so, we cannot change their thinking as the hatred is very deep rooted.

Anyways a person can think the way he/she likes as long as he doesnt practice it. e.g. doesnt start killing the gays or the lesbians.

Anything else Mrs.?

[img_assist|nid=46081|title=stick size :d|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

On a lighter note :D It's funny what the man said about the size of the stick lol :"He even had an example of a stick (light like a toothpick - his words. Looked like a fairly big toothpick to me) and suggestions of where to hit them"

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

You were arguing for the laws of the holy books in another thread....but here you say it is ugly and rejected DESPITE it being sanctioned in a holy book! So what, you only believe in parts of the book? Please explain to me this inconcistency.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

But you have to realize that if you are arguing with people who are believers....then its presence in the Koran is all they will ever need, and no matter what you say it will fall on deaf ears....after all the Koran is the word of god....and who are you to think you know more than god?

Trust me I have been there and heard it before....time and again =(

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Nice Find

you should start a new thread on this topic

We were all discussing the ugly women beating issue, you involved homosexuality which is, in my opinion, is even an uglier issue (and you have the right to disagree). I was free to respond to your post, then you claimed that I was obsessed with homosexuality, while it was YOU who brought it up. I think it made you nervous when I highlighted that fact!

Once again I am telling you: if you are interested in involving homosexuality in this thread, then I consider it, among many other social diseases, as a major factor in the deterioration of communites ...much much worse than beating women! (WHICH IS VERY UGLY & REJECTED)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

"According to Frog, (spousal abuse) is condoned in the Koran (though he himself is not advocating it)".

I did not say it is not in the Holy Quran - just the mere mention of it being stated there provokes a response.

Please do not quote me as saying something I did not if you don't understand waht I have written.

Plain english - if you metion and write in a forum that it is written in the Holy Quran you have to expect comments on this.

Wife beating is eveil and a man has not right to judge his wife that is for God to do not him.

I think this is the sort of crime that MRS is worried that homosexuality leads to.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2202437,00.html

Canarybird ,

You seem to rush to some conclusions without really giving yourself time to explore the situation more. ( which is not really what we get used to from your part) If you're looking for pretexts , you'll find many. Whether you accept it or not that would change nothing about the Holy text. I exposed Islam's say about that, but I never closed door on potential opinions ( with or against) I never use "false Authority" in my arguments. It's just that DG started the thread with explisit reference to ISLAM. I hope you keep on looking for the truth about Islam without too many prejudices :)

BTW I 'm not preaching :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

In that case....strike the objection from the record =p

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

That was on a ligher note. I never meant what you interpreted.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Please pardon my ignorance but it seems to me an important fact is in dispute.

According to Frog, spousal abuse is condoned in the Koran (though he himself is not advocating it).

According to Canarybird it is NOT.

So which is it....does the Koran allow a man to beat his wife or not?

Becuase IF it does...I would very much like to hear how MRS can be against it.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I already talked about "dignity"... equals to Honour. I know a woman that is beaten feels a terrible humulation. Thanks for your answers about ""women who like being beaten"

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Mrs I think it's more misunderstanding what you we were both trying to say.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

u r just a brown smelly kaka

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Skdk .....:) No comments ... not ready to drop the dicussion that downward :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Why do you think that tolerance of homosexuality will lead to ALL humans becoming homosexual? I just think that's funny....we will still go on as a species....homosexuals are a minority...and I think wether you tolerate them or not, they will always be a minority.

Stay Safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

This is IGNORANCE , and there is still no remedy for that as far as I know

Fact is that in remote places this does exist. So is not ignorance and there is still no remedy, but this is a one of the main reasons why people shy away from Muslims and their belief not to mention wife beating when the husband is not pleased about something. I never put any comment on a forum unless I am sure about it.

"However, don't use the Holy Quran to hide behind if you are beating your wives "

I hope you're not referring to my comments, because first, I would not hide , and second because I have much respect for Quran to use it for such a silly end :)

If the shoe fits then wear it. If you put this on the forum and inform all that this is in the Holy Quran, it means you are supporting your opinion about wife beating,then you have to expect that someone will challenge you about it.

Until now I am being taught that the Holy Quran is positive for all aspects of life - seems to me I have misjuged the situation.!!!!

No go back to my first post & you will see what I told salax about beating women!

There is a BIG difference between "there is no AIDS in Bahrain" and "Bahrain is not a safer place".

I did not say that there was no AIDS in Bahrain, but you tried to put words in my mouth, and I have a problem with that. You think that I look for grammer mistakes when I have no words, and I think that you try to put words in other people's mouths when you run out of words!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

I think what needs to be remembered is that these aren't words on a page only - we are talking about people's physical safety.

Yes, okay, I will accept that some women 'like being beaten', as you say, but please let's put this in context. A woman being 'beaten' in a sexual sense is giving her consent and she remains in control. She can say 'stop' at any time. And in most cases the purpose of the act is not for the man to inflict harm, but for both parties to derive some enjoyment from the situation.

In the case of domestic violence, neither of these two factors are at play. The woman is being beaten against her will, and the man is seeking only to cause harm.

Perhaps we could start talking about honour killings too, since it's not too far off topic.

Why? I didn't, I meant it in general.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Oh Sorry Mrs! I didn't say that to imply that you're a man, I was just saying it in general. There was no implication meant whatsoever.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

You have touched Her (or should I say Him) nerve centre by saying ""I didn't say that to imply that you're a man"".

He is gonna get wild wild and irrational.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Ok ignore my last post =p.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

2 possible meanings:

1) she meant you specifically...which is unlikely because you are female and hate homosexuality...so you cannot have a wife...

Or more likely,

2) beating your wife, as in spousal abuse (the concept itself)

Which do you think she meant? If its the first, then its a personal attack....if its the second, then its not personal...but we'll let Gypsy explain what she meant if she is so inclined.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I think that would be the best for this earth. like no hetro sex leading to No population growth.

Earth will be a good place after 50 years or so. Our dear planet needs rejuvination man. Sorry, but you would not be around then.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Explain this:

"beating your wife MRs"

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Canarybird:)

"The widespread belief between Europeans is that (Turkish - Islam sit on the donkey (where there are no other means of transport)and let thier wives follow by foot behind"

This is IGNORANCE , and there is still no remedy for that as far as I know :D

"However, don't use the Holy Quran to hide behind if you are beating your wives "

I hope you're not referring to my comments, because first, I would not hide , and second because I have much respect for Quran to use it for such a silly end :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I wasn't making a personal attack at all Mrs, I was simply expressing my surprise that you do not follow everything the Quran says.

I know that Frog, it's called S&M. However, the issue there is that the women consent to it (and the men often get smacked around to). Abuse is when it's not consented to.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

There you are. Stop watching pronographic movies and NCIS / Killer Instinct...

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Just out of curiosity I wonder how many of the countries on MRS "safe societies" list have ever HEARD of such a concept....wife beating though abhorrent is not Illegal in ALL the world....sad fact, but true....and THAT is what we are discussing....in essence wether it should be or not....but if a major Religion's holy books condone it....what are the chances of that happening?

Which brings up a VERY interesting Moral dilema for you Mrs...in the other thread you were arguing for the sanctity and absoluteness of the divine laws of god....and yet here you say you are against beating yor wife....which according to Frog is sanctioned by the Koran....how do you explain this?

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

If only Adam Smith or J M Keynes had included a chapter on sexual economics in their writings.

Although if all the men 'catch' gayness (or 'choose', or whatever some people here seem to think is the case) then won't that leave lots of women for all the straights. So basically the gays get someone to fool around with, and so do the straights. Which will clearly lead to lots of crime... now I get it.

Andrew ,

"since the woman is already lying bleeding on the floor looking for her teeth?"

The image is really shocking, I hope none would take my words as an urge to beat wives. I can't even harm an inset.

Btw , It may sound sick but some women like being beaten , and I wonder why ? ( Gypsy it's not a personal experience) Even some pornography films start reinforcing such a sick idea.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

do you want me to do the same?

Is this your behavior when I show you that all you have said was wrong?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Hi,

But dear... there are people (male members) in plenty who feel otherwise and give the text a different meaning altogether. Like what these guys do to many other words and meanings for their selfish needs. The sad part is these characters do get a good following of their thoughts.

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

Mrs, what does it have to do with anything? Do you just pick up on grammatical error because you have no way to refute what I said?

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Unfortunately this is the kind or thing that makes people afraid of Islam (have to mention Turkish).

The widespread belief between Europeans is that (Turkish - Islam sit on the donkey (where there are no other means of transport)and let thier wives follow by foot behind, Turkish men do hit their woman and a lot more even kill (however it is unfair to generalise as this might be 1 in 10,000)but for me first hand experience.

My question is, why would a man think he has the right or the power tto judge over a woman, (only God has that right) why would he think beating her would solve their problem.

As God said "he who is without sin may cast the first stone".

salax85

Where did you get that idea that men rarely get out of line (under what circumstance do you present your comments)- you need a big reality check, generally it is the men who get out of line to put it bluntly.

To be quite honest when I was hit, I hit back - the only thing is that I am not as strong and powerful as a man so I ended up with the worse end of the stick.

However, don't use the Holy Quran to hide behind if you are beating your wives and salax85 grow up.

You did not say "it is not a safer place". Here is what you said in case you forgot:

"You must never have been to Bahrain or Tunsinia if you think there's no AIDS, rape, crime or drugs there"

Actually it is your wrong assumption that there is no AIDS in those countries!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

I will have to retract my missing teeth comment. Her husband had the decency to hit her where the bruises won't show so as to not alert social services.

Mind you, since the wife wears an abaya he can hit her anywhere he wants. Except in her pretty little face.

I just found it incredibly shocking that you don't condone beating your wife MRs. You seem to condone other things along the same vein.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

its all supply and demand problem. If supply is less there is bound to be crime and rape of a male by the other... LOL

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

It is only YOU who is obsessed with homosexuality. Actually it was YOU who brought it in this thread:

"two men or women having a loving relationship that hurts no one is wrong, but beating your wife, that's perfectly acceptable."

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Kskat Hello buddy :)

Thanks for your close analysis. I belive Women and men , no matter who works or not, will remain different. their difference probably make them complemantary to each other. You're right dude, things have changed , but the text remain valid "and because they spend (to support them) from their means." In other words : Men are leaders and are not superiors by any means AS LONG AS they assume their responsabilities and take care of their families. Women may work , but in Islam she's never obliged to spend a penny out of her wallet. Isn't it fair then to consider men as families heads ? It's not about who's inferior or superior .

Unfaithful men are not observing the above rule :) I personally think that such people are committing a crime against their wives and their families .

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

"Homosexuality plus many other social diseases will propabely lead to crime/serial killers, more than beating women"

Where to start...

I guess by your use of the word 'probably' you will say that you can't support your claim with any hard statistics, or facts, but perhaps you would like to enlighten us all the same with how homosexuality will 'probably' lead to crime.

Secondly, has it not occured to you that beating women actually IS a crime? It is immaterial whether or not it leads to OTHER crimes, since the woman is already lying bleeding on the floor looking for her teeth?

But that's okay, right, as long as two people weren't expressing their love somewhere.

Well - at least he said lay off her face...

"Beating in the face is forbidden, even when it comes to animals," he explained. "Even if you want your camel or donkey to start walking, you are not allowed to beat it in the face. If this is true for animals, it is all the more true when it comes to humans. So beatings should be light and not in the face."

His final words of wisdom?

"Woman, it has gone too far. I can't bear it anymore," he tells the men to tell their wives. "If he beats her, the beatings must be light and must not make her face ugly."

You said it's a safer place MRs. I'm saying it's not. In fact I would say it's a more dangerous place for AIDS and Drugs, especially since it has so much prostitution.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

and disagree with them Mrs....and by all means that is your right....but you must surely know my stance on your opinions as well =)

The aim is to point out when things are in dispute and the readers can make up their own minds...nothing personal...we already etablished that in the other thread....in fact it may even surprise you to know I have come to enjoy these little debates...they help pass the time when its slow here at the office =p

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

just like Rock, you usually make wrong assumption when you are cornered. Who said there isnt AIDS or drugs in those countries?

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Richard no - it was invented by the ancient Greeks

all that worshipping of the Adonis... the cult of the young male...

Greek wrestling

But it was popularised by the English and jolly popular it became.

Conveniently enough we will never know since Bahrain and Tunisia, and all the other "safe" societies will not have their statistics corroberated....do not allow freedom of the press....contuosly violate human rights...and the list just goes on and on...

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Frog, If anyone is obsessed with homosexuality here it's Mrs. She's the one who keeps calling it a social disease and blaming it for all the worlds ills.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

It is very funny when you come to chosing your advocates/judges. This is certanly making me sure that your opinions are questionable.

Oryx, ALL religions call for love, not only Islam. I have absorbed that but sometimes you need to give people who lack self-respect, the cure they deserve...specially O'hara ;-)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Wow Mrs. You must never have been to Bahrain or Tunsinia if you think there's no AIDS, rape, crime or drugs there. I see more prostitutes and saw more drugs in Bahrain then I have anywhere els in the world! (God Bless Saudi Arabians).

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

if my husband layed his hand on me (beat me) i will make sure he will not walk for a month. or i will report him to police. i own myself. i devoted to my husband but he have no right to beat me up. sorry. this is not acceptable. woman is not man property.

Gypsy ,

I'll start thinking you're obssessed by this subject : Homosexuality . :d

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Dr. Arifi is talking sence as far as the real world is concerned. Now that kind of confidence comes because of the vulnerable situation that females in Islam are w.r.t marriage. If any woman (wife) resists or revolts about the slightest of the misgivings of her husband... she is uttered a word three times and that is it.. These days it even happens by smsing.

Wife beating is prevalent world over but that should not and MUST not never be kinda legalised.

Frog: How does a male (I would not call a male gender of homosapiens who beats his wife a MAN) decide what force should be appllied for a slight hit.

You said ""Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,"" - Agreed

.... ""because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other,"" - I do not think God will differenciate between male and female and even preach his creation of as superior and/or inferior.

""and because they spend (to support them) from their means."" - this is a century old custom. Women earn these days and if all women are allowed to work.. they would be better workers than we guys.

"Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.)"" - what about the faithfulness of a male partner.. is that of no relevance ??

..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..

those of you advocating Wife Beating - and 'just a little slap' to maintaing order.... and that its ok because in the Qu'ran it says...

Don't forget 'Islam is the Religion of Peace'

Mrs Do you believe Islam is the Religion of Peace? Because if you do you are certainly very aggressive and spew forth an infinite amount of hatred towards many people .... with your endless list of diseases.

That is why communities were much safer when religions have regulated the human life through the teachings in the holy books

That is why, Bahrain or Tunisia for example, is a much safer place to be when it comes to AIDS, crime, rape, drugs, illegitimate children, addiction..etc, than Holland or France for example.

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Homosexuality was invented by the British in 1820 at Eton College, one of their famous boarding schools. Before that it didn't exist anywhere in the world. Its the fault of the Brits. Also, I think they invented beating wives children, dogs and servants. They imported these barbaric throughout the world through their empire.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

The issue is not "how hard" can you beat your wife....the real issue is wether you can hit her AT ALL.

And as you pointed out it is apparenly sanctioned in the Koran...which is scary.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

right...interesting readings...;) I didn't agree with the opposing opinion either..but that's their perogative...

I did find it funny about the very male comment on women being made to be screwed..NEVER heard a woman say anything like that before...VERY male comment

but it doesn't change the fact that we just do not see eye to eye on a LOT of these issues....and just for the record i'm fine with that ....your ASSUMPTIONS about biology being the reason people are made is as clear in the last thread as it is wrong....same goes for all your arguments (but again this is just my humble opinion)....but at least I say its my opinion, whereas you spout your opinions like they were UNDISPUTABLE....which you will find is not the case =)

Stay safe.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

and homosexuality does not breed social disease...altho in some people's minds it does...

"when the wives have the bruises and marks from beatings from a stick or whatever"

You're making me look like a monster man :)

Islam's position is clear :"lightly" refers certainly to the fact that the limit is definite:)

Once again, I do not urge Husbands to beat / hit their wives. I try to explain the Koran text, and I would never refute it, but I leave a space for more than one interpretation.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

No it doesn't. Homosexuality has NEVER EVER been linked to crime. However abuse has many many many times.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Homosexuality plus many other social diseases will propabely lead to crime/serial killers, more than beating women (which I totally refuse no matter how "soft" it was)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Good morning....

Mrs and I were having a debate in another thread about what constitues "social diseases"....an interesting read if you're interested....but just to be clear, we need a good definition and we are unable (at least MRS and I that is) to come to a mutually acceptable definition....a lot of what she considers diseases I disagree with, and a lot of what I consider diseases she disagrees with....I guess we can now add wife beating to the list lol =p

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

thanks...

Well long before it became acceptable for same sex partners to be open about their sexuality. There's been homosexuality since the dawn of time.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I was talking biology when I said "women are made to be screwed by men". And this is 100% true.

As for the purpose in life, you need to read my previous post to salax before you make yet another wrong assumption (as you usually do)

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

of time...not just since same sex partners started...

plus..i'm guessing you've never been on the other end of a spousal beating, so how could you know it would be worse???

Homosexuality doesn't make any social diseases. Beatings lead to children growing up to be abusers themselves, in extreme cases growing up to be murderers and serial killers. Abuse is far far worse then anything else we can possibly do to each other.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

And though it may be shared by others in the world...it is by no means universal and uncontested....as you will find that many will disagree with you as well =)

How are you today btw?

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Frog you're the one who said slapping can lead to kissing, I simply assumed that was from personal experience, that or you watch too much James Bond.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

2 men or 2 women loving each other hurts the whole society & initiates social diseases. It is woerst than beating!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

Gypsy,

"Frog I don't know what kind of women you date..."

It's not about me :) appreciate you not making it personal :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

and then spend time in jail. This is what a muslim guy in States did and thankfully to the law he is in jail and even the custody of the kid has been given to the mother.

isn't your wife a human being? doesnt she also has emotions, feelings, doesnt she feel the pain?

Even the thought of beating your wife makes me freakin sick.

I dont know how the bloody FFFF hell people can sleep with their wives after beating them. specially when the wives have the bruises and marks from beatings from a stick or whatever. Mentally sick deranged whackos who take pride in beating their wives. All these wife beaters should be strip naked and lashed in public.

I still cannot FFFF forget the sight of the Talibans beating women in Afghanistan

I don't think Oryx was inquiring about biology as much as a woman's "purpose" in life....I guess to some biological functions are your only purpose....so eat, sleep, deficate, and reproduce...that is your purpose in life....oh and if you follow certain texts, get slapped "lightly" every now and again.

Then again it really depends onyour upbringing and how much logic is invested!

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

andrew , Thanks dude ,I see you're at least doing efforts to understand what I was referring to. You know , I would never do that : hitting my wife, and I prefer to use the word "hit" rather than "beat" , sounds stronger phonetically :D

I exposed Islam's point of view, but never mixed it up with my own opinion. I still maintain what I said before : Hitting wives is allowed, but the so many restrictions on it makes it almost impossible to be put into practice. .....te be continued

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Biologically? They are! Didn't change my mind! It is definitely not the other way around...but then it all depends on your upbringing & the amount of values invested!

"Be strong but not arrogant

Be modest but not weak"

S.H

when the kids see dad slapping mom or hitting her..they replicate it when they grow up. Case in point...friends of mine...dad hit the mom..she'd go to work with a bruise..never press charges against him...then one day, the young son got mad at mom..hit her too...that's when the light went on and she moved out...to avoid the son thinking it was alright to hit another person.

and Frog..slight slap that end up in hot kissing??? geez...can't say that is my idea of foreplay..

Yes, two men or women having a loving relationship that hurts no one is wrong, but beating your wife, that's perfectly acceptable.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Frog I don't know what kind of women you date, perhaps they are into S&M, but if a man ever slapped me that would be the last he ever saw of me.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

So you are backtracking now Mrs...

You don't stand by your statement that women are to be screwed by men...

good to see you changed your view over the weekend

First off, good morning to all....

We all know that spousal violence (mostly against women) exists in every culture and country on earth....what differentiates civilized from uncivilized cultures is how this behaviour is regulated....I.E. IS IT LEGAL? Are the people doing it breaking the law? Or does the state and/or society actually SANCTION and CONDONE this behaviour??

What you are telling me, is that he Koran actually SANCTIONS beating your wife?? THAT, I did not know.

Stay safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

the basis for no girlfriend...hmmm...

Gypsy, As I said before :) a slight slap could end up by hot kissing sometimes :) slight hit has never led to black eyes :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Frog, I think I can see what you are trying to say, and to a point I agree with you. I think we agree that from time to time men and women, in unfortunate circumstances, will hit one another. Perhaps a heated argument where tempers get out of control, someone's drunk, who knows. But it happens. Sure.

Where we don't agree I think is that I disagree that hitting someone should be kept as an option at the back of your mind, or that it is ultimately acceptable. Yes men hit their wives in every culture, I know that. But in few cultures I can think of would the man wake up the next morning and think that what he did was okay, instead of waking up feeling ashamed that he hurt the one he loved.

It's the same with smacking your kids. In the past (certainly when I grew up!!) it was fine to hit your kids when the circumstances warranted it. People do still feel that it is okay to hit children, but only in the most extreme circumstances, such as when another person could be in danger, for instance.

But I can still see no circumstances where the only way to get through to your wife is to beat her. It's an outdated suggestion, with all due respect.

Thx Mrs :) I also noticed that DG chosed the easier task : to respond to Salax who himself said "Cool Frog. u explain really well. plz ignore my comments and read wot Frog has to say ..."

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

Frog I heard 'the rule of thumb' thing on Radio 4 - so of course it is right! LOL

language is not stagnant it is constantly evolving and takes on new meanings all the time. So I think it is fine to say rule of thumb to mean a standard... I just find the origins of some expressions (such as nitty gritty) really interesting. Anyone know a website with these things?

Salax one of your first posts here was to try and get a girlfriend and make a dating section to QL. Now you say it is ok to hit a woman. I hope you enjoy being single because no woman wants to go out with a man who justifies violence in anyway.

I think in this case it needs to be updated. Please Frog explain to me how beating your wife could save the relationship?

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

DG, I never said it's acceptable :) I just tried to explain Islam's point of view. It's allowed under strict and very limited circumstance. The Universal law says : To every Rule there may be exceptions. Let us take it as follows: The Rule is that No One ( Husband ) should under whatever circumstances beat / hit his wife. The exeption then would be : Sometimes, in extreme cases , where other steps were taken and no solution was found ,.... a husband could opt for such an exceptional way to alert his wife or to save their relationship.

I won't hit my wife :) But I would never refute any of Koran's statement . There may be different interpretations but ( GYPSY ) KOran is an everlasting Holy book that needs no update :)

I hope you'll stay open-minded for reasonable discussions :)

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I totally disagree with you this time! Women are half the society. In modern times, they are as equal as men (sometimes even better) in providing the everyday living. They are NOT to be treated as objects/items/possessions and they are definitely not roborts or reproduction machines.

But to be fair DG, you need to comment on the translation of Sourat Nisa'a (by Frog) in order to clarify the picture to Gypsy

a same on in the States...it goes..

Hit me and all you'll see is a**hole and elbows heading out the door...

but not until I get my swats in first!

even when her husband is fooling around..right?? so therefore you can beat her to keep HER in line and the man is guiltless...hmmm...

Well, NOW I've heard everything...

Frog..you surprise me with slightly agreeing with the lightly beating issue...no one should EVER raise a hand against another...man to woman or woman to man, except to defend themselves...

andrew , Than you so much for your last sentence "Just because the Koran says you CAN does not mean you SHOULD. Ever."

This is a simple but effecient explanation of the Islam's position. Thank you dude , you did make things easier for me .

Islam has allowed polygamy, and I know Women in general do never accept that, but There are certainly cases when people have no other choice. Islam has also said : You can... but you should be fair and you should respect some very strict rules. Making the task doubly difficult and almost impossible to do. In Islam, Things are not kept under silence. We all know that there are so many husbands that beat their wives. In Islamic countries or in any other countries aroound the worl, this phenomena exist and many sad cases are kept secret.

Islam prefers to regulate things rather than ignoring real problems.

Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise

I think all it says is that there are parts of the Quran that are outdated and obsolete views from centuries ago. There is no way any just God would support beating your wife.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Andrew11121...phew :)_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Frog, I strongly disagree that anyone hitting another is acceptable. There are other ways to solve disagreements and disputes. _______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Point taken. My apologies. My cat can misbehave as much as he wants - he will never be beaten by me. Even lightly.

Andrew 11121, please don't do that to the lovely pigs and dogs.

______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...