Abortion

How about this for exceptional:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2233878.ece

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

I was brought up to believe that Abortion is wrong. However, a little older and wiser I can say that sometimes after much soul searching in exceptional circumstances, it can be justified. I am sure the mother will suffer because of her decision if she had to do it for medical resons etc.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with cancer just as she found out she was pregnant. She had to abort the child as she would not have been able to have the treatment she so needed. She had 4 other children to think about. So in her mind, was it right to leave 4 children without a mother or abort (these are her words) a cluster of cells?

I found it very difficult to offer advice to her as I had no children at the time. Now I have kids, I can see why she made her decision; she is the first to admit she does not regret what she did but she thinks about her decision all the time!

I think this is a very emotive issue and one that perhaps could be upsetting to some women who are still suffering over their decision.

Nadia, all orphanages are not like this, and a woman will also never forget giving her child away, perhaps more so as she will spend her life looking at every face she sees wondering if it is her child, she will see the child she gave away in the faces of her other children.

If a woman gets pregnant even by rape in an Islamic society do you suggest that she carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption? Will she ever live down that shame (even though the pregnancy is not her fault?), will she ever find a decent suitor as she will be labelled as tarnished no matter how you look at it.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

PEACE BE UPON YOU,WELL I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT all people in orphanages stay uneducated and poor in lebanon we have very respected orphanages and all people do donate to them and we have in islam takkafful which means without taking that child home to live with you you sponsor his studies and most of his needs you visit him and can take him out sometimes ,children in this orphanages do go to school we pay our zakat and kaffara or our money obligations to the poor to these places.it is much easier than killing you child no woman will ever forget this in her life believe me,you will always think of this baby,

Al Hamdulilah Bleu, we are indeed fortunate here in Qatar.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Amoud, after reading stories like that, I feel I've been lucky living the life I live.

Hmm, look at the current case of the 13 year old boy becoming a father. Did you guys see the pictures? Babies having babies. The anti-abortion lobiest are congradulating them on their "bravery". Dont forget to mention both families are living off benefits.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Adoption is only an alternative to abortion in countries where people actually adopt. Look at here, China, Korea or Japan, where, for cultural reasons people don't adopt, these children spend their lives in orphanages, end up with no education, live in poverty and generally, in the case of the women, end up as prostitutes, or criminals. Is this really a suitable alternative?

is another loaded issue...and I'm confused by the fact that some people think unhappy pregnant women should just carry to term and give their babies to ALL these willing people who want to be parents but can't.

I don't know how things are in Qatar, but in most other countries, orphanages are FILLED to capacity with kids waiting to find loving homes. Many are healthy, normal children, but many others have special needs and will probably never find a couple/family to adopt them.

So before people start rallying for all the current and future knocked up women out there to stay pregnant and give their babies up after birth, how about looking around and adopting the thousands of children that are already up for adoption? Then we'll talk...

Abu, I do agree that it is not the fault of the child conceived, and rapist should have their fingernails pulled off with pliers, but I do have to say that as Gypsy said, if a 14 year old girl is raped (she used an extreme example of it being by her father) should that same 14 year old child be subjected to raising a child she didnt plan for, nor consent to? Do you think she will love that child?

Again, as Gypsy said, you cant 'dumb down' this issue. A woman doesnt take the decision to abort lightly, and the option of adoption is not acceptable in all societies.

We cannot judge the entire concept based on our individual beliefs. I think it may be more appropriate to judge if any of us are put in this situation, and to be honest being judged by a group of my peers in such an instance would be the least of my worries. _____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

not only woman, even men have their own option regarding their body. But that option is always govern by specific laws. You can not just do your option because in your view, it is okay. That would be tantamount to doing what you want to do and this world will be chaotic. What I am saying is abortion in general is bad, BUT as everybody is saying, for PARTICULAR circumstances, it maybe justified. But again, the law that may justified it are also made by man, and are also biased to man's interpretation. My conviction is to follow what was His laws and not man's laws that contradicts His wishes. As someone above said, why let an innocent child or fetus inside a woman's womb suffer the faults created by adults intentionally or not (as in the case of rape). Of course, no arguments for Atheist as they do not believe in Him.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

I am not sure how you are reading me DMS, you have put words into my mouth so many times I am very timid to agree here.

Abortion is a very in depth topic, which cannot be done justice in a message forum. I do believe a woman should have an option, you cant judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes. No one knows the circumstances surrounding this womans decision and to be honest I dont really think it is anyones business. ____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

even Gypsy's view only solidify my view that in general, abortion is bad but in some particular case, it maybe justified. Am I reading you right, Amoud?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

I would have a very very hard time giving up a child for adoption. When you´ve carried a child for 9 months, given birth to him/her and then give it away? I know I could not do it. It was difficult enough to give my children to the doctor (who took them out of the room) for a check-up right after they were born.

hold_ut

sitting in the cold Norwegian winter

PEACE BE UPON YOU,I KNOW AROUND me many women who are dying just to have one baby then when i hear that there are woman who are having abortion i feel really sad if you get pregnant by accident just continue it. god created it and you should not disagree with him just give this baby for adoption if you cannot raise him and many woman decided to do this but once the baby was born they changed there minds,it is the miracle that we women help with it is a privilege that we are given.

"If you don't like or approve of abortion, then don't have one yourself."

Says it all.

What a different place this world would be if everyone would just Mind Their Own F Business!

I agree with gypsy Amoud and few of you here. Abortion should be an option for woman when they have been victim from rape, abuse husband, medical reason in the situation that lously has described above. Is totally woman choice.

Everybody is right everybody is wrong, it depend where you stand

I had a dream last night about flying cockroaches and Mexican food...I wonder if this means God is removing His conditional protection from the state of Qatar (in particular Doha), for approving __________ (fill in the blank with whatever issue currently irritates you).

If you don't like or approve of abortion, then don't have one yourself.

god just evened up the score a little with the Australian bush fires!

"CTFM leader, Pastor Danny Nalliah said he would spearhead an effort to provide every assistance to devastated communities, although he was not surprised by the bush fires due to a dream he had last October relating to consequences of the abortion laws passed in Victoria.

He said these bushfires have come as a result of the incendiary abortion laws which decimate life in the womb.

“In my dream I saw fire everywhere with flames burning very high and uncontrollably. With this I woke up from my dream with the interpretation as the following words came to me in a flash from the Spirit of God.

That His conditional protection has been removed from the nation of Australia, in particular Victoria, for approving the slaughter of innocent children in the womb.”"

http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2009/02/10/media-release-abortion-laws-to-blame-for-bush-fires/

*Sigh*

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Bleu: There are many reasons why also married couples should not have children. If your partner is abusive... would you want to bring a child into a family where you´re sure the child will experience abuse?

hold_ut

sitting in the cold Norwegian winter

Amoud: those are acceprale exceptions.

Gypsy, married people should keep their child, no matter what.

....Or what if you read the previous comments regarding rape or risk to the mother?

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

What happens if you have sex during marriage and you want to abort the child salax?

I have a friend who 2 years ago had four children, after she and her husband were divorced (he was a abusive, alcoholic), after a while she got a new boyfriend, this new boyfriend told her he was sterile and could not get children. After six months, she found out that he had lied to her, she had become pregnant, and he packed his things and went. Is it right or wrong for her to take an abortion? She was already a single mother to four children... she didn´t have an abortion, now she´s alone with five children.

hold_ut

sitting in the cold Norwegian winter

Amen ummmjake!!!

in this world start to put their money where their mouths are, and agree that THEY will ensure that these unwanted fetuses will be cared for financially and emotionally through adulthood, then they should just be quiet and let individual women decide for themselves what is best.

Abortion is NEVER an easy decision for a woman. Anyone who has gone through one will assure you of that fact. I don't know why people think we women take such a topic and decision so cavalierly, like it's akin to whether or not we want 1 or 2 spoons of sugar in our morning tea. It's not. Give us some credit.

As many posters before have mentioned, an unwanted child is more likely to experience abuse, resentment, etc. at the hands of its parent(s). While maternity is pretty obvious, in many parts of the world establishing paternity is a bigger deal. And being pregnant and unmarried is a crime in many societies and cultures -- the one we all live in included. Perhaps if governments changed that, more women would be inclined to carry to term and give birth.

And if you think making abortion illegal/difficult to obtain will stop women from seeking them out or getting them any way that they can, you're wrong. History has shown us this already.

If abortion opponents were truly sincere about reducing the number of "murders" (as they see them), they'd focus on trying to improve women's conditions so that they were less inclined to terminate a pregnancy -- and by this I mean improving their economic condition, their educational condition, and a whole host of other things. Until that happens, I can't take seriously someone who is trying to force their religious/moral beliefs on someone else.

My body. My life. My choice.

I was thinking, if you go to the doctor to get an abortion you´re in week 9-12... there are still a lot that could go wrong, and there are still a (relative) big chance of something going wrong and that she will loose the baby. To say that it doesn´t matter which baby you kill, it´s quite clear that if you have given birth to a child you would not see it that way.

To say that you just have to be careful to not get in this situation is also a bit naive, there are a lot of people who are told that you can´t become pregnant while you breastfeed, (in this case) since her baby was under one year, she might have thought she was safe...

I also think it´s quite scary, all the people who sit here saying that abortion is more or less the same as murder, but if the mothers health is on the line it´s ok, is it not murder then? The only person who can decide is the woman, it´s here life that´s on the line, her future, her body, the man can (and will in many cases) turn his back.

hold_ut

sitting in the cold Norwegian winter

will allways rage on and I have some very close family experiences on this one. I believe it has to be a woman's choice and if that woman is not capable of making the choice then women who understand the choice should help her.

What I do know is that us mere males should have no say, power or opinion in the matter. A woman's body is her own and any man who dares to tell a woman what to do in this circumstance shows a complete lack of understanding and empathy. I dont often admit to it (and my wife cannot even see this post!!) but it really is up to you sisters

They also used to sell abortificants which would basically turn a woman's womb to cottage chesse and cause her to hemorage to death.

Nobody has mentioned what was the case in the not too distant past. Untill 1963 I think it was ,abortion in the UK was illegal,except in special circumstances, David Owen was responsible for bringing about the changes in the law.Before that time there were backstreet abortionists who killed many women horribly . It is such a broad spectrum of argument to be easily discussed.

Keep in mind as well that an unwanted child has a far greater chance of growing up to be a criminal, sociopath, etc.

White, as Gypsy said killing is acceptable in some instances, hence the death penalty. Heck, Saudi has the death penalty for drugs, even the smallest amount.

Should the same baby that is born out of a rape bear the burden of a lifetime of scorn and possible abuse from its mother?

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

No matter what situation this is WRONG. Killing is killing. If a woman was raped, is it the baby's fault? Why should it die for the rapists crime?

Yup Amoud Loads. My little brother is a fetal drug/alcohol baby. I wouldn't wish his life on anyone.

Maybe a bit off topic, but has anyone actually seen a baby born to a drug addict mother? The baby is born with her dependancies, and generally has severe malformaties. Give that ever so needy child to a drug addicted mother and what do you think happens?

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

So tess, you're asking someone who doesn't even have the intelligence to be responsible for themselves (crack addicts) to care for and be responsible for another person? Seems like you expect to much.

ROFLMAO.

abortion is always right...think of it this way, it is a terribly painful and traumatic process...it may also cause irreversible damage to the woman both physically and psychologically....any woman who is willing to go through that to get rid of a child clearly is unfit to raise it or take care of it. yes some people are poor and can't provide for children, but at least they can give them love. someone who considers abortion can't give love and therefore shouldn't be allowed to raise a child.

Abortion is wrong in general BUT could be right in SPECIFIC cases. For you, it's the other way around! I'm not surprised, really Gypsy!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

You're not getting it either dmighty. You want to say "in general abortion is wrong." when you CAN't say that cause the issue is too huge. I would say "in general abortion is right" I'm sure you'll disagree with me and point out specific cases where it's wrong. This is the problem with the abortion arguments, you can't generalize it.

dmighty.. Its a decision that you live with all your life.. so its not easy Padre..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

but you can not comprehend my point. I rest my case. I am not actually surprised by you view because you are not comprehending my point. And frankly speaking, my view is based on my conviction. If it's okay with you to kill and abort, so be it. My conscience could not take it.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

You can't generalize killing someone either. You can't say killing people is wrong, because if it was why are 100's of wars being fought around the world? Why is their the death penalty. So GENERALLY killing people is only wrong IF it's murder. Any other time is fine.

dmighty sais, "That is why there are specific laws for such to make sure that abortion being carried-out is legal and not just for the "fun" of it!"

Abortion can never be done just for fun.

I guess ur nt aware of the pain n trauma a woman goes through during the entire process of abortion.

So the reasons for abortion are justified in many cases and hence nothing is wrong with it!

dmighty you have a case.. but you are not the case..

It all depends on the individual and the situation one is in..Not a easy decision as one has to live with it for the rest of their lives..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

dmightysolomon...abortion is not killing...but even if it was, killing isn't wrong either. is it wrong to kill someone who's coming to kill you and your family? all it takes is one exception to disprove the rule. yes it is a specific case, yes it is a minority among cases but this minority brings down the rule.

I agree too that abortion is a crime like murder crime.

as I recognized your point, you can't comprehend mine!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

but if you reason out medically and raped , you are talking about specifics and yes, a specific law can be raised and justify it. But generally, abortion is wrong! That is why there are specific laws for such to make sure that abortion being carried-out is legal and not just for the "fun" of it!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

killing people as in murder or homicide?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

I agree easier said than done , but Prevention is always a better cure if you can help it.

Without imagination their is nothing!

I cant help but commenting on this. Abortion must be considered a crime against humanity only unless it poses serious threat to the mother or other medical complications. Killing a baby/fetus whether a week old is same as killing a human becoz it is human too and it has no fault that it was bought into being whatever the reasons or consequences or environments. We have no right to decide about the life and death of somebody else even if it is our own child. If God can provide for us then he can for that one too. He will provide the ways and means. Only if we stop thinking that eveything is in our hands and we are responsible for it.

I couldn't agree with you more, and for those that will say there are other options available in cases were the termination is due to an unwanted pregnancy consider this also, putting baby up for adoption is just as a difficult and painful decision to make and one also fraught with just as many feelings of guilt and stigma. As someone who has been at that impasse, for all people tell you that it is something you don't have to go through alone, I can tell you, you are very much alone and you are the only person that can decide the difference between what is right and wrong and more importantly what is best.

If everyone cared and nobody cried

If everyone loved and nobody lied

If everyone shared and swallowed their pride

Then we'd see the day when nobody died....Chad Kroeger

No you can't dmighty, that's why those laws are so contested. You simply cannot generalize this topic. If you say ok: Abortion wrong, illegal, then someone will come back and say, but I'm 14 and I was raped! and then you have to look at the human rights laws and the psychological effects, etc etc. You can't generalize it.

Right said gypsy... can't generalize.

The situations and circumstances differ.

Firstly, people shud be responsible enough to avoid pregnancy if they don't want it. But if it happens, abortion is the last resort. What is the point tht u give birth to the child and then not take care of him/her. Ur sowing hell for the child.

Infact in the early weeks of pregnancy, the foetus does not even have a soul.... so its not a murder.

If u still think it is then I guess when girls have menses.... thts also a murder, coz ur killing a potential child, u cud have concieved instead!

about it. The article is about abortion in general (take the message as what is to being conveyed). I agree with your views but again, you are talking about specifics, not in general!

That is why, I am asking, how many people think the same as you compared to the general view of the subject? One million? Two million? what is the population of the whole planet?

Or let's talk about how many are "irresponsible" parents compared to "responsible" ones? Parents who can teach and guide their children about this subject?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

Abortion is justified to the individual that has to justify it to themselves! There but for the grace of God go I.........

Its not an easy decision at all.....

You can't generalize abortion dmighty, that's the whole point. Everyone who considers it has a reason, and each reasons is different.

I just want to say that abortion is not as women's rights issue, a baby is a baby, even if some insist on calling it a fœtus, trying to dehumanize it.

Abortion should not be treated as a form of contraception, or a way to fix a mistake.

It would only be a valid option in case the mother was raped, or if the mother would die if she gets pregnant (for any reason).

not in particular. How many of those cases are you talking about? How many are those you would justify abortion? If we want reason to anything, we can always find one. But let us talk in general, abortion is abortion, it is morally bad and unless you have that stone-hard heart, who can justify such action? The solution is educating people about unwanted or wrong pregnancy, not abortion!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

let's abort this topic...or maybe that would be a crime...

But the response to this different Da..

What right and what is wrong all depends on the situation..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

how many abortion topics were discussed on QL before :/

even u pregnant for being raped victim and u remove (abort)the baby still u kill ur child...

lesson: if you don't want to be in this situation, then think before you do the deed... be careful, there are tons of protective measures to avoid getting pregnant...be responsible...

lol...i sounded like a print add.. :D

[img_assist|nid=12867|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

Well said Loulsy.

Abortion as a form of contraception is wrong.

But if there are cases of rape/death to mother/child would not be viable once born, the i think it is ok. If a child is raped by her father, then surely she should not have to give birth to her child who is also her sister. Or if a baby has a condition which means it would not survive or kill the mother?

Its not a black and white subject. Abortion is neither right than wrong. Every situation is different.

for some reason i couldn't help but give a wide smile when i saw that gypsy commented on this thread hahaha...always swimming up-stream...you're absolutely right though. Abortion is a choice, like it or not. It's a hard, ugly choice but a choice nontheless. Even in the case of idiotic unprotected sex...what if the couple were just 2 18 yeasr old highschool seniors...should they have a child and ruin both their futures and guarantee it a depressing life? Not only won't they be able to provide for it, they will hate it and blame it just like they will hate eachother and blame eachother for ruining each other's lives...if i were that baby, i'd kill myself.

This is not a black or white issue. There is a lot of gray.

The anecdotal statements are not considering the gray areas.

Here we go again...

Well said Lously too..

cant agree any more than what you have written, wise lady...lol

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Well said Gypsy.. This issue is not as easy as the above Joke or what ever it is suggests.

Every situation is different...

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HE WHO DARES WINS

They are one hundred % correct.. not all the situations are similar and the anecdote generalizes....

I'm not with abortion.. but then.. i'm not against..

amoud mentioned rape babies.. and similar situations i will give medical examples:

How about when the situation (pregnancy) is a death sentence on the mother?! in other words: pregnancy will lead to her death so an abortion is a must?!

To abort just bcz u werent smart enough to take precautions against pregnancy is wrong.. but if for medical reasons the abortion is required.. what to do?! NO Abortion.. so instead of losing 1 "human" life as you say.. u end up losing 2.. right?

WYSIWYG

Way to trivialize a serious issue Muya.

so let's kill all those bastards (the born ones and the unborn) and let's kill all the children of poor men and women (the born and the unborn) and let's kill all the poor people and the addicts and the criminals, they are no different than their unborn babies, they're the same burden or more.

And you people talk of IQ? did u ever test your own?

Gotta agree with Gypsy on this one. In this instance this was purely because the woman didnt want to take care of 2 babies. What about babies that are conceived out of rape? Or how about children who are conceived by crack addicted mothers who have no means to take care of them and worse? These are 2 instances, there are many. You cannot blanket the whole concept into this one post. There are right times and wrong times. ____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Yes, lets dumb down a complicated issue into an anecdote that doesn't even begin to take into account the real issues at hand. Anybody who can actually agree with this naive interpretation has demostrated how low their IQ is.

yes, i agree...there's no difference in killing a child that's already been born and one that's still in the womb

of course is aneveil solution.

.

.a bad solution is the same as an evil solution.............

.