Racist Santa…

But when is anti-racism considered racism, or anit-biased considered to be biased.

I think the point is about the Racist Dutch and how they tolerate a sterotype of the dumb negro, not reindeer or some Dutch food.

Look I think you are all being too hard on the Dutch. They all stopped at a cafe on the way home and decided to get stoned and then one of them had the idea to paint their faces black and everyone laughed and thought it would be a great idea. Then they all went out and had kebabs on the way home.

Traditions are traditions..why depict it otherwise.

Someone is crying wolf (not Darude) and its not amusing anymore...IMO.

Huckleberry Finn! They made a tv series back in 80's (or 70's i guess). I love the part when they (Huck n Jim)travel along the mississippi river using a floating house.

yeahh..it really was loooong time before..When I was a lil kid...not even know that saying anything like 'darkie', 'colored' means you're being racist.

Anyways..in the UK..nobodies minding you if you talk bad about the Queen publicly. But once u said something that offended non-whites...immediately you'll be taken to the lock-up. Am i roight @britexpat?

I recalled back few years ago when me n my drunked friend were at the Underground tube station. He offended this young lad (non-white)by his words. Unnoticedly, the pissed-off lad made a report. Two policemen came and get my buddy off.

Darkie, Robertsons jam, Huckleberry Finn, Black & White Minsterel Show..

Lol. Darkie... Now that was a different era.

Mind you, am I the only one that finds Aunt Jemima brand products racist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima

anybody remember DARKIE? the toothpaste mascot?

fubar interesting information about the Oompa Loompas

To be fair Willy Wonka is and has always been Wonkers.

It reminds me about the controversy around the Oompa Loopas from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory:

In the original book, the Oompa Loompas don't come from Loompaland -- they come from Central Africa, and they were described as just regular ol' black pygmies and not hippie clown dwarfs. They were relocated to Loompaland and their skin was changed from black to white in the illustrations thanks to growing controversy in the '70s. Get your hands on one of the versions printed before the world came to its goddamn senses, and you'll read about how Willy Wonka simply found a tribe of Africans, enslaved them and used them to replace his regular work force because they were willing to work for chocolate. And before you complain that they were not slaves because they got paid, we'd remind you that even the worst slave owners fed their slaves a more balanced diet than Mr. Wonka.

Of course, the original treatment of the Oompa Loompas is reminiscent of colonial Europe, when white folks were still able to convince each other that they were doing all the other races a favor by enslaving them. Unfortunately for Dahl apologists, the book was published in 1964, right around the time that the "Hey, everyone thinks black people are funny little animals" argument became a hundred goddamn years too late.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_19610_the-6-most-secretly-racist-classic-childrens-books_p2.html#ixzz2GFvKplRe

Perhaps the start would be to change his name and then gradually transform him ..

a other one hijacked

I'd rather be Santa's slave than the the so-called paid maids in some households in Qatar.

Stnadby mode babu . It's getting close.

People of western Europe celebrated the winter festival well before Christianity came to Europe, these festival later evolved with time. But the theme remains the same, to be jolly and merry in this festive season.

i am ready highness just waiting for ur indication :P

Babu, you have your sword handy?

highness said khalas obey before u get executed ;O)

Thasinmim, read my post...I said it does not matter to me how and why he is created. Christmas is celebrated with Santa in my culture.And now, KHALAS!

Interesting Fatimah.

In the Philippines the Muslims community are sometimes referred to as "Moro". Are there any Filipinos in the forum who can elaborate further?

I assume that this comes from the 16th century when ships were often crewed with black and Muslim sailors around the spice area.

Of course you can babu.

Tahsinmim, you may be right that my post does not make sense to you...as is obvious in your posts...as they say "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"...alas, we shall see what happens in the future.

About Santa, it does not really make a difference to me how and why he was created.

thanks no merci i know i cld trust ur words

Thasinmim, it does.

Specially found the reference to "Moors" interesting. Back in Sri Lanka "Moors" are referred to a community of Muslims. They are considered the "original" Muslims of SL, and were know to be blacks.

As for the custom being racist it is if they consider all blacks to be as this zwarte piet was. A slave and clumsy etc, But do they?

Santa was one of the 12 disciples as well as the Woodcuter, Snow White, the Easter Bunner and Bruce Willis.

Babu, my other comment was for Tahsinmim.

Babu, it is very possible that Marco knows the bible a lot better than I do. Although I am not aware of santa being mentioned, it is very possible that he is. I bow to Marco's knowledge. In the end it does not really make a difference, as Santa is largely a cultural figure.

but 2 mins before u said Santa is NOT mentioned in the bible

reply Thu, 27/12/2012 - 12:46pm

Marco no merci says Santa is NOT mentioned in the bible whom to believe

Babu:

Jeremiah 10

:P

No his helpers are the one that look like the djins..:)

Santa is a jinn

Tahsinmim, here you go again stirring shite. You know very well the answer to it. As do the others. Did you not notice that the OP's tried to ignore those inciting posts? But, what am I asking, of course you all noticed!

That is exactly why , you tahsinmim, have taken it upon you to make sure this thread will derail into hatred and discord..not exactly alien to you....Here is the answer for you and the others: please keep it in your mind, so you do not have to ask again in the future.

Santa is NOT mentioned in the bible. Santa is a cultural figure inspired by the three wise men in the bible bringing presents to the new born Jesus.

So, how about you all stop inciting anger and discord? Do you think it may be in you to do just that?

A similar figure from the Swedish Folklore is Tomte!

I read on one page, can't remember which, that Dutch immigrants probably took Sinterklaas to New York, and is probably where Santa Claus entered broader Western culture. But after so many years, who knows?

http://www.sinterklaas.ca/history1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas

yup i think so,.proberly thats wy in the us the went with "santa klaus" en the elfes to skip the whole religion/racial thing we have in the EU with Sinterklaas

That's really interesting Cracydutch.

I can't find any visual representations of him prior to 1850 when Jan Schenkman published his book.

So I guess back then they figured that all the moors and darkies and negroes etc looked alike in the world?

Christmas of course was originally a pagan festival, but obviously called something different. Black Pete does look a bit strange in these times, but maybe the Gulf has Brown Indian.

was there before christianity,. wich was already used by germanic tribes to have something green (prosper for the new summer)in their homes.

for your info the spar trees are the only trees that hold leaves during the cold winter months

The winter festivities were celebrated in Western Europe even before the introduction of Christianity to Europe!

not talking about santa (US version) but about sinterklaas (original EU )Saint Nickolaas in Christian religion

Could you tell us any passage of the bible mentioning the name of Santa...................

the clothes styling is typical for the time "sinterklaas" lived in,.check old paintings from like Rembrandt and other european painters from that period.

everybody dressed up like that in lower and middle class, so no race difference.

not shure about the "negro parodies" but what i understand. the use all the difference so nobody feels affected,.hence that most african-dutch dont have a problem with it,. for them swarte piet is a moor blacked by coil dust,. and for the moor-dutch its a afro in a mideveal costume..

The weird thing is that if Black Pete is supposed to be a moor, why do people dress up as 1950s negro parodies?

Monkey man, don't take Santa's name in vain. Remember he died on the cross so all our sins could be forgiven and Dutch people could paint their faces black.

you dont get it,.as we as dutch dont engage in (modern) slavery (anymore) so do a lot of country's in the gulf area,. so what you are saying,. what we did in the netherlands is bad,. and what happens these days in the gulf countrys is ok...

even the "black" and coloured people in the Netherlands,. celebrate sinterklaas as all the other do.. and the dont have a problem with it,. the tried a few years ago "rainbow colored piets" but that even the colored people didnt like

Thanks for the back ground cracydutch!

cracydutch :Whether the story relates poor class Zwarte Piet, or SinterKlaas’ black blundering slave, who is characterized by being scary, illiterate, fumbling idiot, as in one of the theories of origin of this story. the overly done facial features and the negro wing with the clear connection between tradition and medieval slavery in Holland.. What people would want to be celebrated or be associated to such history or even by such negativity?

Moors? Were they really black with darkened faces ruff hairs and pink lips?

excuse me but where is santa mentioned in the bible

read into it,..like google it or check wikipedia..

its not santa claus,.but sinterklaas (saint nickolaas)he was a bishop and in christian religion a holy person,.

his " teaboy" as the call the "slaves" here in arab country's.. was a Moor,.who he bougth free on the slave market,. out of gratetude "zwarte piet" stayed to help out sinterklaas (thats one side of the storey)

the other one is,. zwarte piet is a regular dutch boy,.who helps out sinterklaas drop the presents thru the chimney,.hence he is black because of the coildust

long horns and reindeer,.. never heard of those,. he rides a white merry horse wich wy dutch kids put a carrot in there shoes in front of the chimney

Sorry, I was being pedantic because MN-01 tends to miss out the source for cut and paste.. :O)

Anyway, this reminds me of all the fuss made regarding the BBC program Black and white minstrel show or the Golliwogs..

Is it racist ? To many , I would think so. Specially if kids begin to equate a black person to a servant.

Should it be done away with ? To be honest, I'm not sure ..

forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but if they had gotten rid of the overly painted pink lips the stereotypical Negro wings, and the ridiculously huge noses and earnings, they wouldn’t have been accused of racism

britexpat, I saw this on reported Al Jazeera news the other day and both parties arguing for and against this ancient cultural practice which stems from the dutch colonial days!

Not sure if Elves are slaves to Santa but I never heard that Elves got paid by Santa

Source please ..

common MN.. Elves funny and hideous outfits!

Unlike zwarte piet, Elves doesn't paint his face in black, he doesn't wear an afro wig and doesn't paint his lips pink and makes it huge.

If nothing else, the way he is portrayed is pretty racist.

Aren't Elves also Santa slaves?