You don't seem completely convinced yourself that outright conflict won't happen.
You’re absolutely right that things are escalating on both sides, but as I'm sure you know escalation has not historically always precluded nations realising too much is at stake and backing down. Add into the equation Israel, who although generally acting in conjunction with US/UK has also demonstrated its capacity and willingness to act militarily, aggressively and independently, and things are even more worrying. The truth is Israel believes a nuclear Iran is a threat to its existence (which may actually be true - certainly as we know Israel as an entity now). If Iran acquires nuclear weapons it will be too late for Israel to attack. While I hope you are right that conflict is unlikely, conventional warfare is far from the worst possible conclusion to this saga. If any state’s actions have demonstrated such contempt for human life that they may be willing to use nuclear weapons, it would have to be Israel.
Let's pray (or hope, whichever’s your poison) that the world's renowned leaders see sense sooner rather than later on this matter.
To get back on track, here ... did anyone yet post this, from BBC Tuesday?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7000549.stm
"Russia concerned by Iran war talk
Mr Kouchner and Mr Lavrov are holding talks in Moscow Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has expressed fears over the threat of war in Iran after talks with his French counterpart, Bernard Kouchner.
Iran's nuclear programme is topping the agenda of their meeting in Moscow.
On Sunday, Mr Kouchner raised tensions with Iran, saying: "We have to prepare for the worst, and the worst is war......"
Full article on the above link.
(self edit: sorry, joe, I see you ARE back on topic - navigating internet and/or QL is like trying to wade through treacle today!)
same thing: Masonic Lodges. Freemasons. Secret Society. Secret Handshake (some people joke about this and also the strange things they had to do at their 'induction' ceremonies lol). Have to be invited to join and often it goes from Father to Son and so on.
If, say, a Bank Manager is a Mason and he is introduced to a Accountant who he doesn't know he will use the Masons Handshake to see if it is returned by the Accountant. They then know they are 'brothers'.
It's all about helping each other to gain advantage at work etc. but often, therefore, excludes others (who are NOT in the society) from promotion or whatever.
I don't know lots about it, but I DO know some and also know people who ARE Freemasons.
"On 19 July 1974 this Congregation wrote to some Episcopal Conferences a private letter concerning the interpretation of can 2335 of the Code of Canon Law which forbids Catholics, under the penalty of excommunication, to enroll in Masonic or other similar associations...
...Historically, one of Masonry's primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity"
There may be some changes, but I always understood excommication came with enrolling in a Masonic association.
Actually, that site also says:
"Because the revised code of canon law is not explicit on this point, some drew the mistaken conclusion that the Church's prohibition of Freemasonry had been dropped. As a result of this confusion, shortly before the 1983 code was promulgated, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a statement indicating that the penalty was still in force. This statement was dated November 26, 1983 and may be found in 13/27 (Nov. 15, 1983), 450."
army001..I never said CIA elects the Pope. Was just wondering if there was any influences within the Cardinals who elect.
About CIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cia
The Central Intelligence Agency was created by Congress with passage of the National Security Act of 1947
The NSCD further gave the CIA the authority to carry out covert operations "against hostile foreign states or groups or in support of friendly foreign states that any US Government responsibility for them is not evident to unauthorized persons."[5]
The rapid expansion of the CIA, and Allen Dulles added to this trend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Nazis_in_the_CIA
After the end of World War II, the CIA and US military governor John Jay McCloy facilitated the pardon and protection of some Nazi industrialists and other Nazi officials especially those serving in the Nazi intelligence apparatus
There were extensive relationships between former Nazi war criminals and American and West German intelligence organizations, including the CIA. For example, current records show that at least five associates of the notorious Nazi Adolf Eichmann worked for the CIA, 23 other Nazis were approached by the CIA for recruitment, and at least 100 officers within the Gehlen organization were former SD or Gestapo officers.
What is happening in Iraq & Afgh.. is an extention of the "Extermination".
And no Hitler did not start it:
The Idea of the Race.
The idea of One World (the New World Order).
The idea of The State being all powerfull.
The idea of Slaves.
The idea of Human sacrifie.
The roots are deep. The Tree has diffrent branches. I believe they can be broadly called Masonic.
They hold on to a "certain Bloodline".
They promote the "Darwin Theory"
There is massive research going on in DNA, Blood Groups & race and do not disclose the results. They do this inspite it being politically sensitive.
The bloodline they hold on to is Luciferian.
It would make sense if you consider Eve was seduced by Lucifer and thus the line of Cain is called "UnGodly line of Cain". The line of Adam is the line of Abraham the DNA which these masons want diluted/destroyed to such an extent that there cannot be a "Saviour" again from that line.
The linage of Abraham has Jews & Muslims. Both have preserved their DNA to a certain extent due to the Male not marrying into other religion.
The Masons got a double wammy by setting Jews & Muslims against each other to end. That they achieved by Creating the nation of Israel in Palestine and compounded it by the 6-day-war. The action has never been better after that. And it aided the forwarding of the "All Important STATE", which will soon be replaced by "Union of Countries", eg;European Union, Gulf Union, African Union, Pacific Union, etc & finally the RFID+One STATE.
Now who are the Masons?
They exist in all countries. They are the powerbrokers. They control the Mafia in their country. They control the rioters. They control the Leaders. They are the big time Financers, They influence the Leaders. They are not Millionaires they are Billionaires.
Hamlet this isn't about crusades or one side unduly picking on another. This is about different ideologies, values and morals and neither side being willing to accept the others. Until we stop judging one another on the basis of what we think is right or wrong we're never going to get along.
Dweller, exactly, history has proven that the French aren't ones to back up anyone in a war, they're usual the first to tuck tail and run.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
if the French are really prepared to get involved if anything should happen.
They didn't in the 1st Gulf War. They sent 3 aircraft to Qatar (they were also the last arrive) but when everyone else was flying sorties, including Qatari aircraft, where were the French?
Safely tucked away in their shared hanger, they never flew one combat mission.
Jackmohan - your postings were quite intersting. Many folks feel the same about the media. About CIA - honestly - it was new for me. Never heard of that - not that I am an expert on CIA - but just that never heard this theory. Now - these facts you have posted are they just assumptions or backed with credible reports? Just curious.
And how did any one come up with the Popes nomination influenced by CIA?? Has it got any grounds???
ARMY
"Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody's watching "!
that was just my way of saying that I doubt very much the CIA had any say in the election of Pope Benedict.
Election of the Pope is by the College of Cardinals meeting in secret conclave in the Sistine Chapel not less than 15 nor more than 18 days after the death of the previous pontiff. The election is by secret ballot. Pius XII fixed the electoral majority at two thirds plus one vote.
The sacred college of cardinals of the Holy Roman Church is the electoral college of the papacy. Its members are appointed by the Pope.
So the current Pope has appointed the cardinals that pick the next one etc. etc.
Hey! My feelings weren't hurt, no probs. It's just that Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) is an extremely learned man. Not only that, but he was also a key advisor to Pope John Paul! So although we may never have another Pope like John Paul, don't forget who advised him during his reign!
"As Pope John Paul II's chief doctrinal officer and key advisor, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger was the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith from 1981 to 2005.
He is the most revered prelate, scholar, theologian, teacher and Catholic author of our time, under Pope John Paul II - having spoken on everything from sexual consumerism, private revelation and the "crisis of faith," to human rights, roles of men and women today, marriage, the priesthood, and the future of the world".
" Ratzinger worked more closely with Pope John Paul II than perhaps anyone else. On Tuesdays, Ratzinger and members of the Congregation would meet with the Pope for an hour-and-a-half lunch meeting. Then Ratzinger would meet alone with the late Pope every Friday evening to discuss critical problems facing the Church and the deliberations of the Congregation. "Then the Pope decides," Ratzinger said about those meetings."
And regarding that old chestnut 'The Pope is a former Nazi' ....
"...in 1939, entered the minor seminary in Traunstein. In 1943 while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps. (Though he was opposed to the Nazis, he was forced to join at a young age.) Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigors of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he escaped from the Nazis and returned to his family's home .... Family and Church were, for him, inseparable - and he clearly saw Hitler and the Third Reich as the enemy to both. He has said of his father, "…He saw that a victory of Hitler would not be a victory for Germany but a victory of the Antichrist…". "
The above is an extract from: http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/authors/cardinalratzinger.asp
jauntie about the Pope - I accept that he might have been innocent. But what I was trying to say is the people who chose him could have chose someone else.
After the Nazi world war II the US army brought over all the leading Hardcore Nazi scientist, Interrogators, Propandagist, etc and all the Nazi Scum to US so as not to let these "Brilliant men" fall over into Russian hands. This led to the Creation of CIA. Obviously these guys were so good at their "stuff" that they almost created a cult following inside CIA. The proof is that hardly 1% of these guys were broght to justice.
This led to the Appolo with V2 rockets & MK-Ultra + LSD + Mindcontrol programs that CIA did.
Today the News + TV + Newspapers carry just one story. Where are the investigative journalist? Where is the BBC's 2nd side of the story?
Most of the media barons of the world (who control the newspapers & tv channels world wide) are a handfull and these very guys have closed-door meetings with World leaders eg:Bilderberg group or Trilateral Commission. They meet up again every July in the Bohemian grove, Bohemian Avenue, in Monte Rio, California.
Now put the whole issue in perspective and see that French said about the Germans makes perfect sense.
Also put the Pope issue in perpective. And its not out of place.
I am absolutely uncomfortable of having such a Pope when they could have selected one without such a tag especially as he is so aggressive. We are never going to have one like Pope John Paul.
Nicolas Sarkozy is the son of a rich Hungarian immigrant father, Pál Sárközy de Nagy-Bócsa[4] (Hungarian: nagybócsai Sárközy Pál; some sources spell it Nagy-Bócsay Sárközy Pál; Hungarian pronunciation (help·info)), and a mother of French and Ottoman Sephardic Jewish descent, Andrée Mallah[5].
--
Bernard Kouchner
Born to a Jewish father and a Protestant mother, he began his political career as a member of the French Communist Party (PCF), from which he was expelled in 1966. He worked as a physician for the Red Cross in Biafra in 1968 (during the Nigerian Civil War). He founded MSF in 1971, and then, due to a conflict of opinion with MSF chairman Claude Malhuret, the Médecins du Monde (1980). Kouchner worked as a humanitarian volunteer during the Siege of Naba’a refugee camp in Lebanon in East Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War taking risks that "other foreign aid workers weren’t, even worked closely with the Shia cleric Imam Musa al-Sadr."[1]
Recipe for disaster if you mix them with neocons (zionist) in washington!
and perhaps those 2 years of secondary school wouldnt have been so miserable. Still its all water under the bridge now, im not bitter, im really not, well maybe just a little. whoops this threads off at a tangent again.....back to berating the French. All mouth no trousers, always have been.[img_assist|nid=17864|title=Chicks dig Guys with skills|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=440]
I can see what you mean, Gypsy. The US, or any imperial power, always needs an enemy, in the modern age particuarly because the US needs control of markets and resources. America has never directly been involved in Cuba of course although of course continues to arm, train and fund 'counter-revolutionary' forces. Afghanistan is yet again proving inconquerable for the upteenth time. Obvious similarities between Iraq and Vietnam wars.
The big difference I'd say lies beyond military comparisons. the 'war on terror' is a pretext for involvement for economic and geo-political motivations. the Cold War was (not) fought for those reasons and more: it was a prelongued stand off between expanisionist capitalist and socialist powers. There's no ultimate enemy standing behind Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. There definately was behind Cuba, Vietnam and the revolutionary Afghan government.
I would say if the current situation could be compared to anything it would be the Cold War. Consider Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan as the Cuba, Vietnam and .... Afghanistan :P of the 60's, 70's and 80's and the comparisons are pretty obvious. The US always needs an enemy.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
keep The Pope out of this, eh? He was conscipted into the Hitler Youth, like all young men around the world were conscripted to some form of Service in those days. He was NOT a Nazi.
The Germans can't get involved in any war, they are not allowed to since world war II. They are allowed only to go to countries as peace keeping troops, If the US decides to invade Iran, Germans can't take part and Angel Merkle has no say in this.
Like others I am quite sure that the Americans (people) don't want to be pulled into another war and especially one they may have to pay for.
It's posturing and it's childish. The West knows that Iran has every right to nuclear weapons, they also know they are in no position to invade Iran. They are just doing this so Iran and the rest of the world know that they don't like it. It's just the cold war all over again.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Yeah, you're right Iran are goading the US. This is from The Economist (English, respected, dogmatically pro-free market) and includes a quote from Ahmadinejad saying their enemies "dare not" fight them. You can imagine Bush stood next to the climbing frame going: "Yeah? YEAH? We'll, I DOUBLE dare you. How'd you like that huh?"
As for Iran having itself to blame if its attacked: that all really depends whether you believe that the current conflict between the US and Iran for domination of Iraq warrants a wholescale invasion of one of the parties, and whether you think its right that as the fight for domination of the Middle East escalates, whether you think its fair that the US, UK, France and Israel have nuclear weapons and Iran doesn't (although economic ally China does). Beyond all this you also have to believe that the Iranian (and US) people deserve to bear the brunt of the militaristic posturing of their leaders.
Personally, whatever the arguments, I really ******* hope that it doesn't happen. An awful lot of people could die.
That article makes it sound like Iran is purposly goading the US into a war. If that is the case, then Iran has no one to blame but itself when the bombs start falling.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
The only way it would happen is if Israel acted on its own and expected the rest of the West to back it up. It would be interesting to see if they would since support of Israel's stupid, unthought through actions is waning in the West.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
This is not a shot from a romantic movie or a new Singin' in the Rain. It's a glimpse of the Franco-German couple in action and part of why Nicolas Sarkozy gets on Angela Merkel's nerves.
In the picture, the French President is giving the German Chancellor his usual warm embrace when he arrived in Berlin for one of their regular summits on Monday. Sarko is a physical guy. He comes in close. Grabs, hugs and back-slaps are his tools for connecting with people -- like Bill Clinton. Presidents Bush and Putin have both been subjected lately to the Sarko hand-pump with arm around the shoulders. ..... "
Agreed. It would be a terrible mistake by the US. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Israel is very keen to preemptively remove the threat of a nuclear Iran and the US could always assist a proxt war between the two countries. Similarly, although the US electorate and even now a large section of the establishment are fed up with the war in Iraq, the prospect of a nuclear Iran could have such dramatic consquences for both US imperialism and the very existence of its regional Zionist ally that their government could have little choice but to get involved.
But he's renowned as a poopstirrer. I particularly like his rather un-Frenchlike comment:
"We have decided while negotiations are continuing, to prepare eventual sanctions outside the ambit of UN sanctions. Our good friends, the Germans, suggested that," he said.
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AbuAmerican,
You don't seem completely convinced yourself that outright conflict won't happen.
You’re absolutely right that things are escalating on both sides, but as I'm sure you know escalation has not historically always precluded nations realising too much is at stake and backing down. Add into the equation Israel, who although generally acting in conjunction with US/UK has also demonstrated its capacity and willingness to act militarily, aggressively and independently, and things are even more worrying. The truth is Israel believes a nuclear Iran is a threat to its existence (which may actually be true - certainly as we know Israel as an entity now). If Iran acquires nuclear weapons it will be too late for Israel to attack. While I hope you are right that conflict is unlikely, conventional warfare is far from the worst possible conclusion to this saga. If any state’s actions have demonstrated such contempt for human life that they may be willing to use nuclear weapons, it would have to be Israel.
Let's pray (or hope, whichever’s your poison) that the world's renowned leaders see sense sooner rather than later on this matter.
Joe Williams
[email protected]
http://earsopen.blogspot.com/
I did hear at one time Prince Phillip the Queen's husband was a member of the Free Masons. Now whether that is true or not - but interesting.
To get back on track, here ... did anyone yet post this, from BBC Tuesday?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7000549.stm
"Russia concerned by Iran war talk
Mr Kouchner and Mr Lavrov are holding talks in Moscow Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has expressed fears over the threat of war in Iran after talks with his French counterpart, Bernard Kouchner.
Iran's nuclear programme is topping the agenda of their meeting in Moscow.
On Sunday, Mr Kouchner raised tensions with Iran, saying: "We have to prepare for the worst, and the worst is war......"
Full article on the above link.
(self edit: sorry, joe, I see you ARE back on topic - navigating internet and/or QL is like trying to wade through treacle today!)
From Reuters (people with money trust them to report the truth affecting their investments so we probably can too).
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL1877737320070918
Joe Williams
[email protected]
I mean, what did happen to Mulder when he went missing for an entire series?....re-incarnated as the Pope, I shouldn't wonder!!
What's that you say?.... its a work of fiction? No no I am certain in my world view, its those pesky space aliens I tell you.
You really shouldn't take the Da Vinci Code as anything but a big work of fiction, or I and my Illuminati colleagues will silence you! Whao. Ha ha :D
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
same thing: Masonic Lodges. Freemasons. Secret Society. Secret Handshake (some people joke about this and also the strange things they had to do at their 'induction' ceremonies lol). Have to be invited to join and often it goes from Father to Son and so on.
If, say, a Bank Manager is a Mason and he is introduced to a Accountant who he doesn't know he will use the Masons Handshake to see if it is returned by the Accountant. They then know they are 'brothers'.
It's all about helping each other to gain advantage at work etc. but often, therefore, excludes others (who are NOT in the society) from promotion or whatever.
I don't know lots about it, but I DO know some and also know people who ARE Freemasons.
I have heard and read a bit about this free masons stuff. Recently I just did a google search for some info on Wakrah and came across this site: -
http://freemasons.meetup.com/cities/qa/al-wakrah/
Are we talking about the same stuff here in this site??
ARMY
"Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody's watching "!
and that's for sure!
The Catholic Church, as far as I know, is still very anti Freemasonry:
http://showcase.netins.net/web/clearlight/mason.html
"On 19 July 1974 this Congregation wrote to some Episcopal Conferences a private letter concerning the interpretation of can 2335 of the Code of Canon Law which forbids Catholics, under the penalty of excommunication, to enroll in Masonic or other similar associations...
...Historically, one of Masonry's primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity"
There may be some changes, but I always understood excommication came with enrolling in a Masonic association.
Actually, that site also says:
"Because the revised code of canon law is not explicit on this point, some drew the mistaken conclusion that the Church's prohibition of Freemasonry had been dropped. As a result of this confusion, shortly before the 1983 code was promulgated, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a statement indicating that the penalty was still in force. This statement was dated November 26, 1983 and may be found in 13/27 (Nov. 15, 1983), 450."
army001..I never said CIA elects the Pope. Was just wondering if there was any influences within the Cardinals who elect.
About CIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cia
The Central Intelligence Agency was created by Congress with passage of the National Security Act of 1947
The NSCD further gave the CIA the authority to carry out covert operations "against hostile foreign states or groups or in support of friendly foreign states that any US Government responsibility for them is not evident to unauthorized persons."[5]
The rapid expansion of the CIA, and Allen Dulles added to this trend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Nazis_in_the_CIA
After the end of World War II, the CIA and US military governor John Jay McCloy facilitated the pardon and protection of some Nazi industrialists and other Nazi officials especially those serving in the Nazi intelligence apparatus
There were extensive relationships between former Nazi war criminals and American and West German intelligence organizations, including the CIA. For example, current records show that at least five associates of the notorious Nazi Adolf Eichmann worked for the CIA, 23 other Nazis were approached by the CIA for recruitment, and at least 100 officers within the Gehlen organization were former SD or Gestapo officers.
What is happening in Iraq & Afgh.. is an extention of the "Extermination".
And no Hitler did not start it:
The Idea of the Race.
The idea of One World (the New World Order).
The idea of The State being all powerfull.
The idea of Slaves.
The idea of Human sacrifie.
The roots are deep. The Tree has diffrent branches. I believe they can be broadly called Masonic.
They hold on to a "certain Bloodline".
They promote the "Darwin Theory"
There is massive research going on in DNA, Blood Groups & race and do not disclose the results. They do this inspite it being politically sensitive.
The bloodline they hold on to is Luciferian.
It would make sense if you consider Eve was seduced by Lucifer and thus the line of Cain is called "UnGodly line of Cain". The line of Adam is the line of Abraham the DNA which these masons want diluted/destroyed to such an extent that there cannot be a "Saviour" again from that line.
The linage of Abraham has Jews & Muslims. Both have preserved their DNA to a certain extent due to the Male not marrying into other religion.
The Masons got a double wammy by setting Jews & Muslims against each other to end. That they achieved by Creating the nation of Israel in Palestine and compounded it by the 6-day-war. The action has never been better after that. And it aided the forwarding of the "All Important STATE", which will soon be replaced by "Union of Countries", eg;European Union, Gulf Union, African Union, Pacific Union, etc & finally the RFID+One STATE.
Now who are the Masons?
They exist in all countries. They are the powerbrokers. They control the Mafia in their country. They control the rioters. They control the Leaders. They are the big time Financers, They influence the Leaders. They are not Millionaires they are Billionaires.
Hamlet this isn't about crusades or one side unduly picking on another. This is about different ideologies, values and morals and neither side being willing to accept the others. Until we stop judging one another on the basis of what we think is right or wrong we're never going to get along.
Dweller, exactly, history has proven that the French aren't ones to back up anyone in a war, they're usual the first to tuck tail and run.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
If any thing should happen, which I don´t think it will, the french will not get involved at all.
if the French are really prepared to get involved if anything should happen.
They didn't in the 1st Gulf War. They sent 3 aircraft to Qatar (they were also the last arrive) but when everyone else was flying sorties, including Qatari aircraft, where were the French?
Safely tucked away in their shared hanger, they never flew one combat mission.
Jackmohan - your postings were quite intersting. Many folks feel the same about the media. About CIA - honestly - it was new for me. Never heard of that - not that I am an expert on CIA - but just that never heard this theory. Now - these facts you have posted are they just assumptions or backed with credible reports? Just curious.
And how did any one come up with the Popes nomination influenced by CIA?? Has it got any grounds???
ARMY
"Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody's watching "!
that was just my way of saying that I doubt very much the CIA had any say in the election of Pope Benedict.
Election of the Pope is by the College of Cardinals meeting in secret conclave in the Sistine Chapel not less than 15 nor more than 18 days after the death of the previous pontiff. The election is by secret ballot. Pius XII fixed the electoral majority at two thirds plus one vote.
The sacred college of cardinals of the Holy Roman Church is the electoral college of the papacy. Its members are appointed by the Pope.
So the current Pope has appointed the cardinals that pick the next one etc. etc.
.
Hey! My feelings weren't hurt, no probs. It's just that Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) is an extremely learned man. Not only that, but he was also a key advisor to Pope John Paul! So although we may never have another Pope like John Paul, don't forget who advised him during his reign!
"As Pope John Paul II's chief doctrinal officer and key advisor, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger was the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith from 1981 to 2005.
He is the most revered prelate, scholar, theologian, teacher and Catholic author of our time, under Pope John Paul II - having spoken on everything from sexual consumerism, private revelation and the "crisis of faith," to human rights, roles of men and women today, marriage, the priesthood, and the future of the world".
" Ratzinger worked more closely with Pope John Paul II than perhaps anyone else. On Tuesdays, Ratzinger and members of the Congregation would meet with the Pope for an hour-and-a-half lunch meeting. Then Ratzinger would meet alone with the late Pope every Friday evening to discuss critical problems facing the Church and the deliberations of the Congregation. "Then the Pope decides," Ratzinger said about those meetings."
And regarding that old chestnut 'The Pope is a former Nazi' ....
"...in 1939, entered the minor seminary in Traunstein. In 1943 while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps. (Though he was opposed to the Nazis, he was forced to join at a young age.) Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigors of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he escaped from the Nazis and returned to his family's home .... Family and Church were, for him, inseparable - and he clearly saw Hitler and the Third Reich as the enemy to both. He has said of his father, "…He saw that a victory of Hitler would not be a victory for Germany but a victory of the Antichrist…". "
The above is an extract from: http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/authors/cardinalratzinger.asp
jauntie about the Pope - I accept that he might have been innocent. But what I was trying to say is the people who chose him could have chose someone else.
After the Nazi world war II the US army brought over all the leading Hardcore Nazi scientist, Interrogators, Propandagist, etc and all the Nazi Scum to US so as not to let these "Brilliant men" fall over into Russian hands. This led to the Creation of CIA. Obviously these guys were so good at their "stuff" that they almost created a cult following inside CIA. The proof is that hardly 1% of these guys were broght to justice.
This led to the Appolo with V2 rockets & MK-Ultra + LSD + Mindcontrol programs that CIA did.
Today the News + TV + Newspapers carry just one story. Where are the investigative journalist? Where is the BBC's 2nd side of the story?
Most of the media barons of the world (who control the newspapers & tv channels world wide) are a handfull and these very guys have closed-door meetings with World leaders eg:Bilderberg group or Trilateral Commission. They meet up again every July in the Bohemian grove, Bohemian Avenue, in Monte Rio, California.
Now put the whole issue in perspective and see that French said about the Germans makes perfect sense.
Also put the Pope issue in perpective. And its not out of place.
I am absolutely uncomfortable of having such a Pope when they could have selected one without such a tag especially as he is so aggressive. We are never going to have one like Pope John Paul.
I m sorry Jauntie for having hurt your feelings.
Now I m going to Red Pope's Confession booth....
Its disturbing.. nothing is what it looks like! Every one has got their own little agenda.. and its always the common folks who have to pay for it !!!
ARMY.
"Work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody's watching "!
I wonder when this modern crusade on the Islamic world would come to an end....
let's look at the background of these frenchmen..
from wiki:
Nicolas Sarkozy is the son of a rich Hungarian immigrant father, Pál Sárközy de Nagy-Bócsa[4] (Hungarian: nagybócsai Sárközy Pál; some sources spell it Nagy-Bócsay Sárközy Pál; Hungarian pronunciation (help·info)), and a mother of French and Ottoman Sephardic Jewish descent, Andrée Mallah[5].
--
Bernard Kouchner
Born to a Jewish father and a Protestant mother, he began his political career as a member of the French Communist Party (PCF), from which he was expelled in 1966. He worked as a physician for the Red Cross in Biafra in 1968 (during the Nigerian Civil War). He founded MSF in 1971, and then, due to a conflict of opinion with MSF chairman Claude Malhuret, the Médecins du Monde (1980). Kouchner worked as a humanitarian volunteer during the Siege of Naba’a refugee camp in Lebanon in East Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War taking risks that "other foreign aid workers weren’t, even worked closely with the Shia cleric Imam Musa al-Sadr."[1]
Recipe for disaster if you mix them with neocons (zionist) in washington!
hope these would not happen.. peace be with you....
and perhaps those 2 years of secondary school wouldnt have been so miserable. Still its all water under the bridge now, im not bitter, im really not, well maybe just a little. whoops this threads off at a tangent again.....back to berating the French. All mouth no trousers, always have been.[img_assist|nid=17864|title=Chicks dig Guys with skills|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=440]
Hang on...
that should have read 'Miners' Strike'.
The 'Miner's Strike' probably doesn't deserve much attention. More just one bloke taking a day off, really.
Joe Williams
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No problem Jauntie, it's all interelated afterall. It's only a matter of time before I mention the Miner's Strike! :)
I can see what you mean, Gypsy. The US, or any imperial power, always needs an enemy, in the modern age particuarly because the US needs control of markets and resources. America has never directly been involved in Cuba of course although of course continues to arm, train and fund 'counter-revolutionary' forces. Afghanistan is yet again proving inconquerable for the upteenth time. Obvious similarities between Iraq and Vietnam wars.
The big difference I'd say lies beyond military comparisons. the 'war on terror' is a pretext for involvement for economic and geo-political motivations. the Cold War was (not) fought for those reasons and more: it was a prelongued stand off between expanisionist capitalist and socialist powers. There's no ultimate enemy standing behind Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. There definately was behind Cuba, Vietnam and the revolutionary Afghan government.
Joe Williams
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sorry Joe - didn't mean to deviate ...
not to forget the Kurdish offensive in 1987-88 by Saddam when about 182,000 people were killed in Operation Anfal.
Gypsy this goes under the umbrella named "my heart goes out with compassion" from the White House.
Where is the compassion for the hundreds of thousands of deaths and casualties and bereavement the Iraq crises has caused??
I would say if the current situation could be compared to anything it would be the Cold War. Consider Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan as the Cuba, Vietnam and .... Afghanistan :P of the 60's, 70's and 80's and the comparisons are pretty obvious. The US always needs an enemy.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
'what role the Jews play in this Nazi war'? What on earth do you mean by that?
Comparisons between this conflict and Nazi Germany's wars are extremely limited. Both involve the illegal occupation by one country by another.
That's about the size of it.
Nazi Germany: fascist government.
US: bourgeois democratic.
Nazi control of press: direct censorship.
US: proxy/editorial censorship.
Nazi domestic policy: systematic annihilation of entire races and dissidents.
US domestic policy: undoubtedly racist but no comparison whatsoever.
US recruitment: voluntary (admittedly less so for those in very poor circumstances).
Nazi recruitment: conscription.
And how does the Pope fit into all this exactly?
I don’t mean to offer overly harsh criticism but the crimes committed by the Nazis are the most horrific incident in all of human history.
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t think this means we should any less object to current injustices but let’s not lose perspective.
Thanks,
Joe.
keep The Pope out of this, eh? He was conscipted into the Hitler Youth, like all young men around the world were conscripted to some form of Service in those days. He was NOT a Nazi.
Get your facts straight please.
The Germans can't get involved in any war, they are not allowed to since world war II. They are allowed only to go to countries as peace keeping troops, If the US decides to invade Iran, Germans can't take part and Angel Merkle has no say in this.
Like others I am quite sure that the Americans (people) don't want to be pulled into another war and especially one they may have to pay for.
It's posturing and it's childish. The West knows that Iran has every right to nuclear weapons, they also know they are in no position to invade Iran. They are just doing this so Iran and the rest of the world know that they don't like it. It's just the cold war all over again.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Its a Nazi war...
Be it the Propaganda machine (News)....(Every day the news says "George W Bush did/said ..." as it was in Hitler days)
or
be it the recruitment of 16yr boys in Army.
Is the present Pope an ex-nazi just by chance?
I wonder which role the Jews play in this Nazi war?
sorry, just reread, I'm not accusing you of being prowar if that's how it came accross!
Yeah, you're right Iran are goading the US. This is from The Economist (English, respected, dogmatically pro-free market) and includes a quote from Ahmadinejad saying their enemies "dare not" fight them. You can imagine Bush stood next to the climbing frame going: "Yeah? YEAH? We'll, I DOUBLE dare you. How'd you like that huh?"
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9767656&CFID=18943431&CFTOKEN=6994629
As for Iran having itself to blame if its attacked: that all really depends whether you believe that the current conflict between the US and Iran for domination of Iraq warrants a wholescale invasion of one of the parties, and whether you think its right that as the fight for domination of the Middle East escalates, whether you think its fair that the US, UK, France and Israel have nuclear weapons and Iran doesn't (although economic ally China does). Beyond all this you also have to believe that the Iranian (and US) people deserve to bear the brunt of the militaristic posturing of their leaders.
Personally, whatever the arguments, I really ******* hope that it doesn't happen. An awful lot of people could die.
I still think it's a lot of talk and "dick waving" at the moment. But one things for sure, I can't wait till December 2008.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
British Professor Michael Clarke is director of the Royal United Services Institute in London argues US will be on its own in war against Iran.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/16/wiran216.xml
That article makes it sound like Iran is purposly goading the US into a war. If that is the case, then Iran has no one to blame but itself when the bombs start falling.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
This one from the Daily Telegraph, newspaper to the British establishment (ie news credible, analysis terrible).
Explains White House's plans and pretty much how it's going to happen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/16/wiran116.xml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2169708,00.html
Sorry all this is coming from the Guardian/BBC, by the way, will try and find some sources that aren't so desparately social democratic.
Joe Williams
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The only way it would happen is if Israel acted on its own and expected the rest of the West to back it up. It would be interesting to see if they would since support of Israel's stupid, unthought through actions is waning in the West.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
http://timescorrespondents.typepad.com/charles_bremner/2007/09/sarkozy-is-too-.html
"September 12, 2007
Sarkozy is too friendly for the Germans
This is not a shot from a romantic movie or a new Singin' in the Rain. It's a glimpse of the Franco-German couple in action and part of why Nicolas Sarkozy gets on Angela Merkel's nerves.
In the picture, the French President is giving the German Chancellor his usual warm embrace when he arrived in Berlin for one of their regular summits on Monday. Sarko is a physical guy. He comes in close. Grabs, hugs and back-slaps are his tools for connecting with people -- like Bill Clinton. Presidents Bush and Putin have both been subjected lately to the Sarko hand-pump with arm around the shoulders. ..... "
Agreed. It would be a terrible mistake by the US. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Israel is very keen to preemptively remove the threat of a nuclear Iran and the US could always assist a proxt war between the two countries. Similarly, although the US electorate and even now a large section of the establishment are fed up with the war in Iraq, the prospect of a nuclear Iran could have such dramatic consquences for both US imperialism and the very existence of its regional Zionist ally that their government could have little choice but to get involved.
Joe Williams
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It is a particularly beligerent comment to make just to stirr up a bit of trouble. Kouchner was of course anti-Iraq war (although pro-sanctions).
I might be wrong, but from a British poltiical perspective the French and German governments seem pretty close?
Joe Williams
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The war against Iran isn't going to happen. The US can't afford to get bogged down in another Middle Eastern conflict. It would be suicide.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
precisely !!!
In the words of Professor Higgins: "The French don't care what they say, actually, provided they pronounce it correctly"
:P
But he's renowned as a poopstirrer. I particularly like his rather un-Frenchlike comment:
"We have decided while negotiations are continuing, to prepare eventual sanctions outside the ambit of UN sanctions. Our good friends, the Germans, suggested that," he said.
Oh yeah? hee hee
what do you mean? That France won't back a US-Israeli war against Iran? Or that such a war won't happen?
Joe Williams
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Never going to happen. You can't believe anything the French say.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Not at all. This could have very serious consequences for those of us who live here.
Joe Williams
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yikes! This doesn't look good.