Handshake costs Muslim volunteer prize
A Muslim asylum seeker in Ireland has been denied a well-deserved award for his volunteer work after asking organizers not to be asked to shake hand with the lady presenting the award, the Times reported on Sunday, June 22.
"The judges had decided that someone else should get the award," said Benedicta Attoh, a member of the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Inter-culturalism.
Alinoor Ahmed Sheikh, a Somali Muslim based in an asylum hostel in Tralee, was to receive an award for his efforts to raise funds for Amnesty International.
Ahead of the ceremony, he asked the Africa Center in Dublin, the organizers, not to be asked to shake the female presenter's hand.
Sheikh said he was initially assured by organizers that his request not to shake Attoh's hand would be accommodated because it was based on his religious beliefs.
However, five minutes before the prize announcement his name was crossed out and the prize went to an absent volunteer.
"I don't think I would have presented his prize if he wouldn't shake my hand because I'm a woman," said Attoh, chairwoman of the Africa Centre’s board.
According to the 2006 census, Ireland is home to some 33,000 Muslims, making up about 1 percent of its total population.
full article at http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=132854
And to those that said they have shaken hands with Muslims of the opposite sex...
Just because a Muslim eats a pork sandwich... doesn't make it right Islamically...
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
Cultural idiosyncrasies can be and often are a source of misunderstanding, and in our relatively recent heterogeneous society, the potential for conflict is great. Take for example the apparently innocuous handshake. As a social greeting, the hand is often extended prior to any conversation and long before people have a chance to learn that it is a taboo in another culture.
It is difficult to refuse such an affable gesture, more especially when you know the person extending their hand intends no malice or ill feeling – refusal can be misconstrued and sometimes, punishable. Take for example the recent retraction of a prestigious award simply because the Muslim male announced that he could not shake the hand of the female presenter. This stricture is by no means peculiar to Muslims, both orthodox Jews and Hindus prohibit the shaking of hands with members of the opposite sex.
Unfortunately, for non-Muslims the divergent practice among various Muslims and a general atmosphere of appeasement by those who claim to speak for Muslims, adds to the confusion. The answer to this dilemma is reciprocal understanding and accommodation.
When a Muslim is placed in the uncomfortable position of having to refuse a handshake from a member of the opposite sex, it is more often than not the Muslim who will be extremely embarrassed. No disrespect is intended, the Muslim is simply applying the statement of the Prophet when he said: “I do not shake hands with women” [At-Tabarnee in Al Mu'jam-ul-Kabeer (24/342) and authenticated in Saheeh Al-Jaami (no.8054)] and the speech of Allah (God) when He says: Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow....(Qur'an 33:21). Indeed the Prophet said, “that a man get struck with an iron needle in his head is better for him than that he touches a woman that is not permissible for him (to touch)”. [Reported by At-Tabaraanee, Al-Bayhaqee and others and Imaam Al-Albaanee authenticated it in Silsilat As-Saheehah (1/447-448)].
Some may see this as discourteous; however bear in mind that the one who said, “I do not shake hands with women” also said, “the most perfect believer is one who is the best in courtesy and amiable manners, and the best among you people is one who is most kind and courteous to his wife" (Tirmidhi) and in another narration, “the best among you is the one who treats his family best." (Tirmidhi).
Without a doubt then the prohibition of shaking hands with members of the opposite sex was borne out of deep respect, and when Muslims follow this noble example today they do so out of respect for the company they are in and with a desire to follow the example of the noble Prophet.
http://goreymuslimcommunity.typepad.com
Ma'qail narrated that the Prophet Muhammad said, "If one of you were to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle it would be better for him than touching a woman whom he is not permitted to touch" . [Reported by Imam Tabrani and the narrators of this Hadith are reliable, Imam al-Baihaqi also narrated it and Shaikh Albani said in Sahih al-Jaami' it is sahih #5045]
A'eesha said, "By Allah, the Prophet did not take any pledge from women except what is ordered by Allah and the hand of the Prophet has never touched the hand of a woman". (Whom it was not permitted by the sharee'ah for him to touch.) [Sahih Muslim, #1866]
Game recognizes game and you're looking kinda unfamiliar right now... -- Riley Freeman
Perhaps , this is his "interpretation" of the teachings.
As for temptation..In Saudi , I worked with a guy who refused to go on a one year training course to the USA because he said he was too weak willed and would probably give in to the temptations on offer. Perhaps, this guy thought that shaking the hand would lead to other things..
Suffice to say.. Right or Wrong, it comes down to personal belief..
the link that was previously provided as Islam's view on shaking hand with a female, please read and tell me in your view if you feel the situation included any temptation as per the view of the "fatwa" below
"In fact, I searched for a persuasive and textual proof supporting the prohibition but I did not find it. As a matter of fact, the most powerful evidence here is blocking the means to temptation, and this is no doubt acceptable when the desire is roused or there is fear of temptation because its signs exist. But when there is no fear of temptation or desire, what is the reason for prohibition? "
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
I now have an image of Gypsy in an Abeya.......Just gonna have to visit the toilet for a while......Mmnnnn !!!
But of course, im just a broken corrupt immoral Westerner !
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Flutter of the eye lids.., shaking of the hand and we're at their mercy!
here is long article about handshaking with women,
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546332
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
The prohibition comes from an authentic hadeeth. I can find the exact location tonight. I can't look it up now because I am at work. :(
Why do you want hell, why dont you have party somewhere else in the heaven like scarlett and stop subscribing to hell, just ask God to guide you and he may. "Whom so ever Allah guides non can misguide, and whom so ever allah allows to go stray non can guide".
so my prayers are with you that you are guided before you end.
ALlah knows best.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
I doubt it very much. Its the same old story, they say they will all leave when its safe, but they see how well treated, and how good a life they have and they stay permantly.
Thats why the UK is screwed at the moment
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that doesn't make for a good sensational story if you take the WHOLE truth...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
If you read the original article http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4188508.ece you will see (in paragraph six) he will receive an award.
I'm still waiting to see the text from the Koran that explicitly bans men from shaking hands with women.
I haven't read all the posts, just the first few, and I agree with what Alexa and somebody else (can't remember who) said .....
He is in Ireland. In the West. He wants to live there. So get used to it.
As I am always telling my teenage son; when you go to any country, you respect their traditions, culture and values. Whether that's a Muslim in Ireland, or a Westerner in Doha, the principle remains the same.
If you're not prepared to accept that, then go home.
.
"I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places". - Henny Youngman
the missing link (presumably). So then, can we just have the whole story first and debate it again later. It's now clear to all that unless some of the actual events were relayed, then there will be confusion. Because some protagonists on one side tends to agree with the other sides IF and IF and IF, blah, blah, blah.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
no because he is having problem at home created by the same people and they take his family to there.
in the end he is coming back home and i am not sure you will see such guy embrase the western culture.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Yup, like I said realsomeone, if people like you go to heaven, I will happily go to hell.
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without fear of reprisals, but at the same time, he will try and force his beliefs on others, as is the case all the time....
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why cant we talk about things honestly like this without just coming with criticism like Gypy.
Scarlett it will be good to see you and the likes having party in heaven but i am not sure if Gypsy will be one of you because she already said she will subscribe to hell and have alcohol with gays.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
i don't why he puts the fult on the presenting the award meybe the fult is from him...
live and let other to live...
I'm guessing it would be the REASON they changed their minds about presenting the award to this guy...I can't honestly see a group holding back an award for volunteering simply due to refusing to shake hands...there MUST have been more to it...perhaps there are bad feelings between the two people involved...who knows...perhaps something came out about the guy who was due to receive the award, that they didn't want to embarrass him with publically...could be anything.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
It's totally up to whoever is giving the award. If they feel it's part of the criteria, why not?
For example, if I'm giving an award, say, on cultural integration and the guy I nominate tells me he won't shake my hand when I give him the prize, I will feel that he's not that culturaly integrated and will give the award to someone else.
I'm giving the award, I get to choose. As simple as that.
i don't know why always the talk should go other way...
in islam it's not haram for men to shake hands of the women and women haram to shake hands ot the men... thats so simple to be understand....
what i don't understand is some muslim women or men shake hands and say it's ok by islam NO it's not ok and they know that very clearly...
live and let other to live...
I think the obvious gap is whether or not the woman handing out the award was consulted about not shaking hands, I would say a big no to that one.
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back home, the really santimonious Christians got their panties in a wad and screamed that they weren't allowed to pray in schools...what it REALLY was, was that they were not allowed to hold PUBLIC prayer over the intercom...because...which religion would they allow to pray? Prayer is held in school every day, silent, quietly, they hold prayer sessions at the flag pole before school, etc...not to mention that as long as there are tests in school, there WILL be prayers!! BUT, it was much more dramatic to say on TV and newspapers that prayer wasn't allowed in school...this story reminds me of a situation like this...part of the story is missing..most likely the most logical part...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
What do u think is missing?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
something just doesn't ring quite true in this...my guess would be that a major puzzle part is missing.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
as you've stated before, you have an ENORMOUS chip on your shoulder where westerners are concerned..especially Americans...and therefore always tend to post inflamatory threads, such as this one. If someone disagrees with your point of view, you get all puffed up and self righteous...claiming to be able to judge others. WEll...tell you what...you can't. There is only one Judgement and that will come from on High when the time is right...and its pretty certain that you will NOT be the only person in Heaven...but the rest of us will try and be quiet so that you don't realize we're having a party up there also. Would hate to burst your self righteous bubble.
As far as gypsy is concerned...she has every right to voice HER opinions as well as you do. Thank goodness there IS a site manager on QL that believes in freedom of speech.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Just on the note, a dirty mind means a mind that has been used to think while I see here some clean minds that have never been used in a thinking process ...
I do wish God bless me with a dirty mind that thinks rather than a clean mind i never get to use ..
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
They can give awards to whoever they want. And if they feel the person for some reason does not deserve the award anymore, they can revoke it. It's the right of whoever is giving the award.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
In that aspect, I will agree with you Philly, if they said it was ok, then it should have been ok, HOWEVER, seeing as how this article is from Islamonline I don't think we are getting the whole story.
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they could just have told the guy to be absent in the ceremony because they are willing to give the award IN ABSENTIA as what happened. Was the shaking of hands a criteria in the award? That's how shallow it was?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I think that there is one small detail that is being overlooked. According to the post, the man asked ahead of time whether he had to shake a woman's hand and was told that he didn't have to. So he DOES have a valid argument.
For example, if Gypsy asked the local officials if she could wear the mini skirt that she wants to wear and get knocked up and they told her she could, then the officials wouldn't be able to later come back and punish her because they gave their consent.
So if what the man said is true, then the council has no right to object. They should have told him no from the jump. As a muslims I am not asking anyone to change their culture to accomodate my beliefs, but if they gave their word they should have followed through with their agreement.
And thank God for that, realsome!
the gay thread is hot now, why dont you head to there
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
I would say that the predominately "westernized" people will understand cultures and morals of others when others understand and respect ours...its just not being done at all, and when westerners do something about the disrespect, this HUGE outcry goes up...on religious issues..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Realsome, the day that people like you become a moderator will be the day QL will have all the bad westerners leave this forum.
yup you are free to voice your opinion fatcat.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
God has no value to you, you think you are God.
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Dmightysoloman, if we received the same amount of thought and respect about our beliefs, there wouldn't be an issue, but we don't. You have a group asking for special treatment, when they themselves refuse to grant any special treatment.
\
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God has a value near me Gypsy. i already decided just to stay away from your rubish comments but i dont know how you come into this thread. I wish i had the Ql power to confine you into special threads.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Realsome, you need a mirror :)
because then if you HAD lived among westerners, you'd have a better understanding of us...instead of just spouting propaganda. Makes me wonder tho, why you are here instead of back home helping your countrymen...since you are into starving instead of learning about other cultures.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
whether the awardee wants to shake hands or not, the award still belong to him. That's why there was an issue, because the award was not given to the rightful one because of a bad presumption.
Again, this is a religious issue. What is right to Mr. Paul may not be right to others. When will the predominantly "westernized" people will ever understand that they just need to understand totally the morals being observed by the conservative religious group.
It is only now I knew that not shaking hands is slap in the face or some sort. Only to the "shallow-thinker" but not for those who would just give a little more understanding to the different ways of treating any deeds or actions such as SHAKING HANDS!!!!!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
there is justice system in Islam...so where its followed correctly there is justice. no matter how bad you find it.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Totally out of line, you see, he's GOD, therefore he can pass judgement on whoever he'd like.
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Sorry for my poor assumption, Gypsy. I thought he knew you because he is so holly that how would he pass judgement on someone he doesn't even know? Now that would be wrong and out of line!
stones gays to death just for BEING gay is cleaner and not broken??? How about stoning or drowning a woman for marrying someone she actually LOVES...or if she happened to get raped...let me see, she has to find, what, 5 witnesses...hmm be kinda tough since most rapes occur out of plain view OR the witnesses would BE the rapists...yep, makes sense to me...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
she has been around QL for sometime.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
No of course not Fatcat, I just don't believe exactly what he believes, so therefore I'm "broken".
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yup i am not western educated. so expect the unexpected.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Realsome, do you even know Gypsy to pass such a comment?
oh scarlet, thanks but no thanks i already had the chance to go there but thank God, i missed the oppurtunity and i am gratefull for that.
i am heading to Mogadishu instead insha allah.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
come now, surely you don't expect an educated answer on that...
fatcat...I was very sad I missed the bbq...sighhh...maybe the next one i can make! Am throughly enjoying my holiday thank you....just need to get a bit more sleep and on the Texas time schedule instead of the Qatar one..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Who was saying relationship? I'm just going to have a one night stand and get knocked up, then I'm going to charge for it. :P
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ok let me be kind to you. I dont think you dont have clean mind except such people like Gypsy, but yes i believe the western culture that legalizes Gay marriage and the like is totally broken.
second i think a muslim should just stay home and die for hunger instead of trying to adjust with a broken culture that has no clear path forward.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Will you be using a "male" to get pregnant, or will you be entering into a same se* relationship and going the sperm donor way ?
of course you can belive whatever you choose to believe..however...you are spreading your viewpoints in public forum, so don't expect the rest of the world to just sit back and take you calling our culture "broken"...trust me...some of the things you do will most certainly be viewed as strange and immoral in our views...however..you'll find most westerners tend to keep those viewpoints to themselves out of RESPECT for a different culture. Obviously you don't mind if you slam our culture publically...One thing I would like to say tho is that before you pass judgement upon a culture, go live there for a while and see for yourself what the people are like instead of spouting propaganda and hatred...You'd be surprised just how many good people with good morals, there are in other worlds.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Yup Scarlett, it's all ready, I'm soooo glad we don't have to respect the culture here anymore :D
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the low cut top to go with the miniskirt and allow your undies to show...throw in some alcohol and pork to go for the whole "broken culture" look...oh yeah...and don't forget to have intercourse in the street...that's a must do..
koko..good points on the clean mind..if his was truly clean he wouldn't even be ON QL, much less discussing this because he'd be too busy.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
see our morality are different from each other, i think western culture is broken this is my believe OK.
you can believe whatever you want about me,
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Great, well if we no longer have to respect others cultures, I'm going to go put on my mini skirt, get pregnant and have a babie out of wedlock,like I want to.
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Scarlett, I was just joking. Hope you're enjoying your holiday! btw, the bbq was really nice, we missed you there.
Sorry for the highjacking of the thread, you guys carry on.
Realsome, if you have a clean mind... then you will not think of the west... "If you believe it is a broken culture"
In Islam... if you wear the head scraf.. you should wear the correct clothing to match it... not a pair of jeans or skirt or even abiya that is stuck to your body.. or else just don't wear the scarf...
If you wear underwear.. it should be in the environment... as what's the use in wearing it only at home...??? :)
If you have bad thoughts about what people are doing... then do waddu... and don't think like that again... so if this is how you are writing from your unbroken culture.. then you must be going to pray and do waddu every few minutes... so if this is an unbroken culture (Somalia) and the west is a broken culture... wow... then I'm not living!!!
Never say Never for fear of Forever!!
interesting...so why then, pray tell, are so many Muslims moving and asking for asylum in the West???
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
ok period. not in Somalia and not in Qatar.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
if a handshake is a habit, and it should remain OUR habit and not be forced on others, does that mean if I go to Somalia, I don't have to cover my head and respect the rules for your country as well, because MY religion doesn't require me to cover...so what would happen then?
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
well excuse, i didnt judged you. but i only said what every clean mind in this world will think about the western culture.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
A handshake isn't a habit, and you're supposed to wear underwear in a public environment!
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silly girl...I already know you so the cheek kisses are fine...if you don't mind a real big Texas hug in return..
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
well underwear in general may not make a sense in this thread but it makes a sense when you wear it in a public envirement.
and it was only an example of what could happen if Qatar just says do what ever you want in here.
if handshake is a habit it should be your habit not for everyone and shouldnt be forced to others.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
must be nice to know you are the only one with good morals...nice judgement call...last time I checked...the only one who can judge who is good and who is not, is the Supreme Being..and so are you assuming to place yourself on that level as well???
Gypsy...you know, guess I just broke every morality law with wearing underwear on the plane...but my mama always told me to wear clean undies in case there was an accident and you had to go to the hospital!! Darn her for bad advice!! Guess I'll go to hell due to the underwear. And, driving down the street yesterday in Houston, I saw at least 20 couples having intercourse in plain view on the sidewalks...oh my...
Now, that being said...what I DO object to is certain religious groups moving to western countries and demanding that THEIR laws be followed and that they are exempt from the country in which they are residing's laws. THAT'S what I find upsetting.
I'm sorry but with your skewed views of what the West is like, realsomeone, you make me laugh...don't judge us by what you see on tv...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Handshakes are habit, they are a sign of respect and greeting, and it's very insulting to refuse one.
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Scarlett, no more kisses for you when I meet you!
lol
The Qatari's wear underwear, you can see them under their thobes when the light shines through them in the right way. Realsomeone you aren't making any sense.
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what.. you don't wear underwear??? :) LOL..
As for the intercourse on the streets... have you actually seen people in the west have intercourse on the streets??? If you did.. please let me know where...
Try not to be too judgemental as at least when a westerner wants to do something or say something.. they say it straight.. most of the rest of you would rather date girls.. have "INTERCOURSE" with girls, whenever and whereever you had the chance... so don't be such a hypocrite!!!!
I've seen people preach the Almighty... and from the other side are with men, drinking, or vis-versa..
And I'm talking about locals...
Never say Never for fear of Forever!!
of course in public...
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
a twitch...handshakes are NOT that...its a form of greeting and congratulations and are NOT given just out of habit..that would be like saying the cheek kisses/nose touching, are automatic when greeting people. I used the American Indians as a point to prove that handshakes for women to men have come from the beginning of our country, not just since women joined the workforce. Freedom of religious conviction isn't banned in the west but other religions need to realize that cultural issues need to be observed as well and try and balance the two.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
well hold on there, its not African with African we do not consider ourselves Africans but we consider Muslims.
we have huge differences with most Africans as we do with westerners. so its not African issue but a matter of religious believe and personal spirit.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
"wear underwear, etc. its total spoiling and no one with morality can allow."
wearing underwear is against morality? :S
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Ireland is only the country.. but he was with his own people... it has nothing to do with respecting the Irish Culture... or the way the Irish live... It wasn't an Irish person he insulted by not shaking hands... it was an African... so again as i say.. nothing to do with Ireland...
To all the Irish out there... what the hell is your country doing allowing Somali, African, and so on into the country and giving them asylum.. when they can't provide for their own people??? Do you think those countries would give the Irish the same treatment??? Of course not.. any westerner over there is murdered and no questions are asked as to what country you are from!!!
Never say Never for fear of Forever!!
i do respect you , but i cant stand for a broken culture that violates most of human values.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
A habit is something someone does a lot without thinking about it.
Is it that you object to the correct use of the word or do you object to Americans including the North American Indians being included in the western part. Refusing the handshake by this man was not a cultural issue but a religious conviction. Since when is freedom of conviction banned in the West?
And as Koko says it was a question of African with African. Aisha-Taweela
Well i believe the west is not given such special treatmenet as king and queens to the Muslims
but still the Islamic CUlture is not spoiling others but how would you think Qatar and other countries should allow westerners to have intercourse on the street, wear underwear, etc. its total spoiling and no one with morality can allow.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Who said I'm angry? I'm just tired of the hypocrisy.
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it was DONE in Ireland...that is my point..if you are in a country, respect and understand its rules and way of life...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
it IS onesided...why should muslims from this part of the world move and work in a western country and expect NOT to have to follow the rules of the country they are residing in?? We, as westerners do...
And ours is NOT a broken culture..just different than what you grew up with. Try giving some respect to other nationalities..you'd be surprised how much respect you get back.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
There is one basic difference..
Its not special treatment..our laws, culture, history dictates "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expression". These are values we should cherish. It is because of these values, that we allow people from different cultures/religion/ beliefs the rights they are accorded.
Why should the West?
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its not onesided but its a matter of broken culture, why should Qatar or other countries allow a culture that will spoil their society.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
But we're not talking about the west here in this article... the whole story is about shaking hands.. nothing to do with the Irish. It's two Africans debating and misunderstanding each other...:)
But yes i agree with the fact that the Muslims expect special treatment in every country, where as we have to abide by the rules while being here.
I think it's very distasteful how they treat people in this country and expect to be treated like kings and queens in other countries also... Shame on them!!!
Never say Never for fear of Forever!!
oddly enough, some folks always find other cultures to be "broken" when they are different than the one they grew up in..its how you deal with differences that matter, tho...so instead of trying to change the country you live in, why not live your religion, but at the same time not FORCE your religion on others of the country you are residing and working in. Gypsy is quite correct in this matter...its very onesided when it comes to respecting the cultures and religions of who lives where...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
at least in America....we've been shaking hand for as long as we've been in existance...it dates back to the American Indians, in fact. Women have always used a handshake as a greeting or congratulations, even with men...yes, as more and more people got into the work force they did shake hands more but that's because there were more people..not just more females working.
I do object to it being called a HABIT...its a cultural issue...and to refuse a handshake is considered a slap in the face or a refusal of friendship...
koko...mr paul was just saying that if he wishes to live in western countries, then he needs to follow the rules or deal with the consequences.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
It's very hypocritical that we are expected to abide by the cultural mores of Qatar while here, but when muslims go to the West, they have to be given special treatment.
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Well, there is no one crying for prize now but it was only misunderstanding between the parts and if you read the full article even the women understood that it was misunderstanding.
secondly he doenst need to mix with cultures of that place , i believe such culture is a broken one and no one is going to get benefit by reflecting on it.
this is not a matter of culture , its a matter of Islamic teaching and a muslim should do everything to preseve his believe no matter the concequence.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Mr. Paul, you keep mentioning that if he wants to live in Ireland he should get used the culture there!!
But what happened to him had nothing what-so-ever to do with the Irish. The lady that was presenting the award to him was African... so it's African Culture against African Culture here.. nothing to do with the IRISH PLZ... :)
Never say Never for fear of Forever!!
Again...take a look at WHERE the guy is...its considered very rude to do what he's doing. If he chooses to not shake hands, then he should be fine with losing the prize, besides, doing volunteer work isn't about prizes, its about helping people.
Now on the issue of local and cultural customs...for those muslims who have issues with shaking hands...let me tell you, I have issues with the cheek kisses..BIG issues...The culture I grew up in was handshakes only unless you were very close either in friendship or related to the person. I've been in Qatar for over a year now and I still balk a bit when a guy or girl for that matter, does the 2 or 3 cheek kisses to me. Its just a matter of culture.
I don't think its a matter of shame on the people who decided this matter..its cultural...and if you are in western culture then live it...its what we westerners do when we live in muslim countries..should be the same way around when muslims visit or stay in western countries...
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Shaking the hand of an opposite sex is not a must do or must not do in Islam. It has more to do with personal conviction. In Islam one should not be mixing with the opposite sex if they are not family. Usually in Muslim families they do not meet and specially they will not shake hands. A nod of the head will do when they meet. Shaking hands is a western habit,the same as both sexes meeting more and more, which is now becoming part of life. Also that women are going out to have jobs is also a western culture. Women did work before but it always was in a one sex job. Now they are mixing and issues like shaking hands is becoming apparent and some people do not have a problem with it, because they are adapting the western culture, but the more conservative people do. So what if he does not want to shake her hand. It is a sign of respect, not an insult. In islam a man would not touch the hand or even look at an other woman who is not his wife because of respect to the woman, her husband or family. Since when is showing respect a bad thing? Because it is a Muslim who does it? Is it right to refuse him a price because he shows respect? Shame on the people who decided on this matter. Well they can stuff the price "where the sun dont shine" I would say.
Aisha-Taweela
I am sure he is isnt feeling down cause of losing prize, he better stand for his believe.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
If one thinks a physical handshake defiles a person then he should restrict himself to his mosque or church or whatever. Why the hell should such people try to go to west ?
Mr Paul..
not only is the handshake a meet and greet, its a very valued sign of congratations and of thanks. To be in a western country and refuse to do so when accepting an award, is really quite a slap in the face.
What you WILL see here, Qatar, as per britexpat's comment on graduations...if the females do not wish or can't shake the presenter's hand, they will take that hand and cross it over their chest and make a small nod...that was the signal that they couldn't shake the hand of a male presenter.
Again, like Gypsy said..many muslim men shake females hands..I know I have that on a regular basis..and I've personally witnessed many a Muslim woman be the first to extend her hand to males for a handshake as an offer of friendship and good will.
This is just a case of "when in Rome"....
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
It looks like the woman was pretty offended that he wouldn't shake her hand, and it kind of goes completely agains the whole purpose of the prize.
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respect and adhere to the cultures and traditions of the said country, showing the soles of the feet, Ramadan etc.
So this guy should understand the culture and traditions of Ireland.
Like Alexa says, when in rome and all that.
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muslims all over the world are unified with one culture
those are traditions of Prophet (pbuh). What you see around are ignorant, deviants (highly qualified )
he made request before the event so there is no disrepectful here.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Well it depends, according to Western culture he was being VERY disrespectful. Also he's not a Muslim woman, I've had my hand shaken by hundreds of Muslim men, and no one's ever refused. I think he was just trying to be difficult, and rightly, the woman was insulted.
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Well said, Mr Paul.
read the full article Logic.
"According to Shari`ah, the basic rule discourages shaking hands with members of the opposite sex, but if one were put in an awkward situation, then there would be no harm to shake hands with members of the opposite sex.
This ruling applies to Muslims living in the West because of the social customs prevailing in these countries."
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
I don't know, whether its in the Quran or not! Have you read it?
Anyway, I was at a graduation ceremony couple of weeks ago for Qataris. i noticed that the female graduates did not shake hands with the presenter. They just walked up, smiled and took their certificates.
So perhaps , it is something in Islam. let us not rush to judge.
I would also say though, that If this person said that he would not shake hands on religious beliefs, then he should have been accomodated. he was not being disrespectful was he ?
Thats all it is. Some people will now turn it into an anti Islam thing and read too much into it.
And lets just check that story shall we ....An Assylum seeker living in Ireland, well, if he wants to live the good life there, then he had better get used to the Irish way of doing things. After all, as certain people on this site keep reminding us all, its their country,their rules and customs.....
He can always bugger off back to his country if that way of life offends him.
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obviously she was willing to shake hands with him and I have been in situations where Qatari Muslim women offered their hands in business meetings and shook hand with all men attending the meeting ... and as I said I understood it as cultural ..
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
unless there is a difficult situation ... my question is this in Quran or is it forbidden by Islam?
You refer to Somalia .. this means it is a cultural thing not religious, can you clarify this please?
You refer to preparation for prayer and he can always wash after that so there is no reason why he would note shake hands with a lady ?
Please elaborate with ... it is important if you raise a topic to explain what is behind it because it seems to me you are implying discremination against the volunteer beacuse of his religion, is this true or was he wrong not to accept the award ?
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".
WOMEN are not allowed to shake hands PERIOD
its not recommended unless there is difficult situation, anyway there is Assalamu aleykum and it doesnt require handshaking.
and in Somalia its often that man doesnt shake hands with opposite sex or the man or the women covers their hand with some cloths,
this also involves prayer, because when Muslim washes for prayer if he touches the opposite sex's body he has to wash again except for some of the family members.
"He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah" prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
I've got to agree with the committee on this one, there's nothing in the Quran to say he can't shake her hand in that kind of setting.
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This comes as a piece of new knowledge to me, would someone kindly clarify this issue. I know that it is a cultural thing for males in Qatar not to put their hands out to shake hands with a Qatari lady unless she puts her hand out first ..
Please advise
"The best way to predict the future is to create it".