Hometown incident gets me thinking
Not normally one to get involved in QLs politics side of things but this took place near my home town and is an example of why France has banned the veil and dozens of countries around the country are following. I'd ignored the issue before but this got me thinking.
A MAGISTRATE had described the Muslim woman's crime as ''malicious'' and ''ruthless'' and sentenced her to six months' jail for falsely accusing a police officer of trying to rip off her veil during a random breath test.
Yesterday, flanked by a scrum of about 20 men screaming ''Allahu Akbar'' (God is great), Carnita Matthews again emerged from court, having successfully appealed against her conviction of knowingly making a false complaint.
Mrs Matthews, 46, had been stopped by a highway patrol officer last June at Woodbine, in south-west Sydney, and had allegedly refused to remove her veil so that he could identify her.
Moments later, he had fined her for not properly displaying her P-plates and she began arguing with him outside the car.
In a video played to the NSW District Court yesterday, the mother of seven is seen shouting at the officer that he is racist, the fine was unfair and she would not accept it. She was aware that she was being recorded. ''You are racist. All cops are racists … you are feeling guilty, I can see it in your eyes,'' she said. ''You know you are giving me a ticket for crap.'' She threatened to take him to court.
The video showed him reaching into the car to breath-test the woman but he is not seen touching her veil. A statutory declaration given to Campbelltown police two days later said: ''I felt very uncomfortable so I partly lifted my veil. He wasn't satisfied with that so he moved closer to me in a threatening manner, moved his hand closer to my veil where I felt that he was going to rip it off my face. I then in fear before lifting up my veil stated I am not allowed to show my face.''
Yesterday, Judge Clive Jeffreys said there was no evidence the statutory declaration had been made by Mrs Matthews or even that it was knowingly false.
''All we know is that a person with a black burqa came in [to Campbelltown police station] with a man in a brown suit with an envelope and that's it,'' he said.
''I'm not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that she made the complaint and even if I was … I would not be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that it was knowingly false.''
He said the signature on the complaint was also very different to the one on her licence.
Judge Jeffreys will deliver his formal judgment tomorrow.
Source of the story is at http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/woman-convicted-of-police-veillifting-lie-set-...
It is such a difficult and emotive subject.
First of all - this woman was in the wrong.
Six months in prison - harsh.
Should women be allowed to wear a veil in Western countries?
In the UK – people in hoodies or even hats are stopped and searched.
So a ‘person’ who covers their body and face is seen as a real security threat and not because of the Muslim perspective – some idiots have dressed up as Muslims to cause harm knowing they will not be stopped because they ‘are seen as Muslims’. In the UK we are scared to 'stop Muslims'.
When it comes to policing or security, that country comes first. If it means she drops the veil – so be it.
I personally don’t care if a woman covers as long as she chooses it.
However, we have to obey certain rules and traditions – they have to obey ours – it’s called mutual understanding and shows tolerance.
Australia has very tough laws and I will stick my neck out and say they could be seen as racist – lived in Melbourne for a couple of years – never again will I want the Oz experience.
no no i don't look at them also, else only in the case if they are too much beautiful, i just look at then for 5 seconds :p
well looking them will give me nothing, and it is an awkward act also.. thats why better to avoid it..
though i look to be very true.. but not much, like just a look and then move my face to look another one :p
but not a ..... look
ingeniero, and you do the same with a girl in Western clothing? and if not, then why not?
i do the same, when ever i see a girl in abaya, i always look to the ground... now don't ask further that why??
you always ask out ov course questions :(
yup right.. as its prohibited for the snapping pictures also.. but if required, necessary.. you have to do this.. and there is not sin. same is the others case, for security reasons, identification, one can reveal there face,
So, basically it comes down to common sense. Thought so.
A line many men simply forget!
then its also said to men to keep your eyes down and show respect
kana ganjay ba shay
Your right. There is a verse, Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59. What makes the interpretation of scholars defer is that some interpret the words of Allah "better for them" to be obligatory while some say its not obligatory but just "better".
(I follow the opinion of the Sheikhs that its not obligatory but a rewarding act provided its not forced upon anyone and is done with knowledge and by choice)
That said when however faced in a situation like mentioned in the op one shouldn't hesitate to comply,Allahu alam, simply cos its clearly not a agreed upon obligatory act and by refusing you can encounter worser evils, specially since its a matter of identification and security concern, and the fact that you are in a non Muslim country too.
And to answer Nomerci,yes we have faced situations in Qatar during the process of applying for the visa, where due to the fact that there was no woman available, we had to reveal our faces to a male officer. And again we agreed willingly since its a law.Mind you this being a Muslim country.
in Holy Qura'an, there is a verse, meaning is like this.. that when you come out of your home, keep a cloth on your face in such a condition that one can not see your face..
i will have to search it.. i read it in explanation, but i saw this verse in Holy Qura'an also...
thanks brit!!
It is different interpretations from different scholars.
"..Iam not allowed to show my face"
one fundamental question: Is it really written in Quran that women will not show their faces in public...or is it just an interpretation by the clerics?
Britexpat its a bit hard for media to ignore them when they are in their face shouting slogans.
well, it might be necessary.I just don't get why people just can't use a bit of common sense.
I wonder...in reality, what would happen in an Islamic country if a police officer felt it was necessary for a veiled woman to show her face for identification and no female officer was available?
One of the problems pertaining to this case is that as laws stand, the Police don't have the power to order the removal of the niqab. I'm sure parliament will rectify this soon..
sun, they do. But it can be men or women highway patrol officers. I mean if it happens to be a man stopping you, you would certainly not expect him to say"oh sure, I am not allowed by your god to see your face...let me fetch a woman quickly"...or would you?
Don't they have lady officers there ? .....
Their actions are totally wrong and indeed portray a false image , but I do wish that the media would ignore them and the government would develop a backbone in dealing with such morons.
True..As a Muslima I do believe the saying of my Lord, "And whatever strikes you of disaster - it is for what your hands have earned....." [ash-Shura 42:30] Due to the misdeeds of some Muslims, we all have to pay the price..Allahu Must3aan!
For you and me maybe, Britexpat. But for ordinary Aussies and French these are the most prevalent images of Muslims. Blame the media if you want, but these idiots who are chanting slogans and claiming religious discrimination aren't helping matters.
She is an idiot but what about the 20 men who were shouting slogans?
Whats their problem?
I don't think filing fake complaints against police officers is part of any religion or is it?
BTW - Mustaf Jama and the killing of Police Officer Sharon Beshenevsky is exactly the reason that women should lift their veils when asked to do so by those in authority.
Surely, it is reasonable to understand that this is an idiotic minority and should not be taken seriously.
jjj75:
If she couldn't drive, then she would not be stopped by the police.
flanotsu - not sure I follow your meaning?
should follow saudi's lead and ban women, or at least idiots like this lady, from driving.
FathimaH--I agree, but when large groups show up to court chanting slogans and protesting the arrest (as was the case in this instance) it's easy for the media to portray the incident and mainstream rather than isolated.
To be honest, I don't think the objection is so much to women in the veil--at least for most people that support the ban. What stirs up the average person in these countries is when protesters show up chanting slogans in Arabic at the courthouse in support of a woman like this--a clear narcissistic nut who misuses her religion to play the victim and intimidate others. It plays into all the anti-Muslim stereotypes--aggressive, foreign, fanatical, etc. For the average Frenchman or Australian who doesn't know any Muslims, these are the images they see. Unfortunately, two reasonable people of different faiths having an ordinary chat about the weather just doesn't make headlines.
Back in SL, during the war, we were required many times to show our faces at security check points. I always always obliged straight off knowing the consequences if not. Not that it was mentally easy on me,having adorned the niqaab by choice and with understanding, but it was something I knew had to be done considering the possible outcomes.
The bottom line is if you live in Non Muslim governed lands its better for you to comply to the laws in such circumstances than risk losing your rights, as well as the rights of many others of your faith for refusing.
For that matter even in Qatar there have been a few times when exposing our faces was mandatory, and its a Muslim country!
I hope and pray the government of Australia views this as an isolated case and not strip away the freedom to wear the veil for all Muslimas abiding there! Whether she was falsely accused or not is not something we can say for sure but I hopefully whoever is in the wrong is justly penalized!
She sounds like a real peace of work. The key issue here is that the law needs to be tightened and if neccessary, provisions made to allow police officers to order the removal of the niqab where neccessary.
So because of this incident, you want to take the rights from MUSLIMS women. nice going guys. Where r ur so called freedom now.
What ever has France done, its there only country policy and rules. Its ok. Citizens have to obey those rules.
"In a video played to the NSW District Court yesterday, the mother of seven is seen shouting at the officer that he is racist, the fine was unfair and she would not accept it."
Translation: JAIL!
This is exactly why France has a ban on the veil and why so many other countries are following France's lead. Six months is bit excessive, but then she insulted a police officer and filed a false claim. Jail time is appropriate.
This policeman is a racist and this is a conspiracy. This poor woman has been falsely accused and even judge says so. This is a sneaky trick to get veil banned in Autralia and take away freedom.