People of the Scripture

United we Stand...

and drunk we Stand taller :)

It jus reminded me of My College gang Moto...

The main one was -

Reality is a Illusion caused due to deficiency of Alcohol :)...

Pls don feel bad for the -oh (Alcohol mentioned).. Jus take it as seriously as it is written.. you ll find a lol in it :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

ok , thank you for these information QL

and i hope this thread really did the effect by showing the people of the scripture how they are welcomed in Islam

and to remove the black idea about islam

united we stand

one God, one message

Ql - Thanks - Its still ON ???

I thought Versi shall finally over take this thread with his topic/senseless Plurality... :)

troll - then shall reply to your question soon...

Don get enough time to type all what I want to thts why postponing it... :(

Ya I am lazy....

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

The thread hasn't been closed.

You're welcome one-shot to make your point.

sorry i didn't know that

they said "better close this thread,"

i thought it was a part of discussion

so i have to open my own thread

sorry again for this misunderstanding , but it wasn't clear at the first

This thread was closed on Sat, 29/08/2009 - 3:20pm.

And, You re opened it on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 7:03pm.

4-video no#4

&feature=related

5- no#5

&feature=fvw

6-no#6

&feature=related

7- no#7

&feature=related

8-no#8:

&feature=related

9-no#9

&feature=fvw

10-no#10

&feature=related

the first 5 videos speaks about similarity between

Islam - Christianity - Judaism

and the other 5 videos speaks for the atheists and a very few scientific miracles of quran

1- video no#1

&feature=PlayList&p=20043707EAA2A96A&index=3

2- video no#2

&feature=PlayList&p=20043707EAA2A96A&index=6

3- video no#3

&feature=PlayList&p=20043707EAA2A96A&index=11

better close this thread, its just repeating again and again ... just worship and believe and don't argue

people who worship and believes in God and does not live by his word are not his people compared to those who lives by it through his words ...

be a humble believer and do not use thy Gods name just to get attention ...

Poor Qatari ??

this thread has risen the readership of QL....

Qatari mus be having the forum viewed most no. of times stats...

He is getting more sponsors...

Along with QL.. all the posters... good for nothing people should be given some percentage....

Count me in only if its Cash....

For praises n curse.... thks.. I am allergic to both....

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

No Ashwin..

Poor Qatari. . We are just wasting the space in his server or what ever.

shall we continue this discussion over here...

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/677007

Troll - Poor thread or poor we..

Versi wants to discuss the thread on the page 8 after 7 pages of over exhaustive debates and what not.....

La la la...

Page 7 was dedicated to Anti-PM fan club.....

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Now its eight pages!!

true...

Poor thread!

Can't you read the topic...

'People of the Scripture'

Stick to topic ???

I was answering your Hijack provoking question...

Back to topic.......

Boeing 747 ?????? Or McLaren F1 team......

We ll see...

Back to original People of Scriptures -

They are too busy blessing people and listening to prayers... don think they have time for reading 7 pages here :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

don't hijack... stick to the topic...

Versi - ???

Help me understand how reading my Long posts make people fart ?????????

How else do you explain the reasons of Qatar being the largest producer of Gas one day then ????? :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

if we could package all that you write and export it...

Qatar would zoom up from second largest gas producer to position one overnight.... ;-)

1000 QRs/ word ????

I could afford a Boeing 747 if I was paid fairly by QL :)

QL - Qatar Living.... its mis leading a bit... :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

that's cheap... :-p

the going rate on my thread is much higher

your entire intellectual status is on line...

Celebrity?

NO NO! YOU are an 'Allima'!! ;P

I will comment, verisi, but you'll have to pay me QRs1000 per word. I'm a celebrity now :P

why aren't you commenting on my 'plural expat super' thread?

Afraid of competition? or are you worried those red petals might wilt?... :-p

Feeling jealous, verisi, are we? hehe

Good idea, crapcircle. Do it for me and I'll pay you a percentage of the percentage!

this is no match to my 'plural of expat' thread

its a MAGIC thread...

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/677007

BEST THREAD EVAR?

QatariLady, claim your crown, you start the bestest of threadzz, I think the admin owes you a percentage of the advertising proceeds...

...which you should send at least a part of to the poor folks that are supposedly "monitoring" the discussions on here. Just briefly browsing the 7 pages proves it's quite a demeaning job at times :D

...are you guys still going? God is going to be really bored when you get to meet him..........

i believe in God the Father Almighty, I do believe in Jesus Christ the son of God born by the Virgin and suffered to save our sins. I do believe in forgiveness of sins and resurrection of the body. And I do believe in life everlasting.

I do believe that whatever you do to others may it be good or bad will reflect back to you in other ways may it be a blessing or a course.

I do believe in reasons and philosophy, it keeps us creative and evolved in this world.

Whatever or whoever you think you are ... note that we are all created equal and have no right to judge each others.

There is only one judge and that is our creator and he will come again to settle this debate that has been long in the table waiting for his final judgment.

So let us all be ready...

lol

By the way....just pointing out. It's haram in Islam to spy on anyone, unless in a time of war.

Works for Kisses ??

Dude you have been a lucky man then....

????? was for this same theory doesn wrk for Kisses.....

Something I didn get in those 4 word ????

I am not Exotic 2 :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

works for everything....try it out but atleast wash ur mouth first and eat some gum fore u do anyting......but ashwin why the ??????????.....something u did not understand about the tagline

Madhatfx -

"Give respect to get respect" ??????????

Hope it wrked for Kisses too :(

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

well done khalid....."People should think and know what suits them." that's more like it.....

dude....have no need for ur links....am sure no one does.....an internet search can find us anything we want.....

Anyways my faith in GOD and Jesus provides everything that I require and more, it has freedom of thought and a universal message of LOVE and FORGIVENESS for everyone......more than enough ain't it mate.

If u need to know more I think u know where to go....hehehe.....take care dude and have a good day

give respect to get respect.....peace.

All Muslims should follow the same path, for Muslims there is one way which they should follow.

madhatfx others have their belief and its up to them, as you know some can consider mouse as their God.

People should think and know what suits them.

We should not force them.

If you want to know about:

What do they say? (islam)

Islam & Science

The Holy Quran

Fundamental Beliefs

Hadith & Sunnah

Prayer

Fasting

Charity (Sadaqah & Zakaah)

Hajj & Umrah

Muslim Character

Great Muslims

Comparative Religion

Islamic History

Light Articles

Misconceptions

New Muslims

News

Poetry

Politics

Misguided & Deviant Sects

Soul Purification

Touching Stories

stories of the prophets

Family & Woman

then please visit this page

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=topics

then maybe now u finally realise that all the others too have their own way to GOD and since u cannot furnish any proof that ur way is the right way then when the others of different faiths pray to GOD then we have no right to say/imply/condemn that theirs is the wrong way........

............by the way if u even said that GOD personally told me that I should follow Him it would have been enough for us all because no one has a monopoly on GOD.

give respect to get respect.....peace

doha !

There is what our prophet Mohammed asked us to do.

goodnight everyone ... dont forget to pray before sleeping to whoever is your God. May our God Bless us all.

goodnight everyone ... dont forget to pray before sleeping to your God. May our God Bless us all.

look at you people... posting on a "religion" thread and its past midnight... *shakes head*

True, this thread have been hijacked by personal attacks lacking any substance, apparently most people feel so badass behind their computer screens.

.

Look at my smallest post.

S

Troll - True... personal attacks.... of idiotic level hve spoiled all the fun we where having in healthy debate..... :(

People call yourself religious.... ??????

Try being a Human first... religious is way too ahead....

And personal name calling and attacking... Mods have given options of PMing and opening new forums for it....

Note - I feel proud of my self... this is the smallest post I have typed recently :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

The search for the red orchid is still on...Carry on people...You will stumble upon the great truths on this thread ...ROFL

Source:

- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)

.

That is more like it. I'm new on Qatarliving and I have no soft corners for any. Move along and ignore me, its better.

Sallam

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

this has been a royal hijack...

i am off...

sorry if i offended you...

no malice intended...

just having fun... that's all

Ramadhan Kareem...

her name is sugar 'quarter'

and her challenge to you was...

If you are 'quarter' the man you think you are... :-))

ha ha ha

s/he is ignored already. seems s/he has a 'soft corner' towards AGED lady.

a challenge to a face off...

these are the moments when i wish we could add a soundtrack to QL...

Malpaso... pls watch this video before you go...

you are ignored.

go to water and get dissolved !

over and out with u.

malpaso, watch your tone. If you are 1/4 the person you think you are, lets meet and then lets see who's the moron. You must have no brains at all.

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

reminds me the negetive heros (villen) of james bond movies..... tallented, but, mis guided.

I am particularly upset by posters who are so obsessed with policing muslim posters on pedantics while everyone else is making merry insulting the prophet, the Holy Book and whatever else that comes to mind...

i think, the AGED LADY has really really some crucial misconception....

malpaso..

You're right that some wouldn't or couldn't understand.. I'm really having a hard time reading what they post :) but I have to!.. I can't let their ignorance about Islam go loose and mislead other QLers who would think that this is Islam.

biting only the keyboard?

that was a good observation...

I missed that... yep another name...

*rolls eyes*

You won't be able to continue on QL if you break it; and that would be SUCH a shame... :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

go away ! you dont have any idea where you are sticking your nose into !

a guiness record for discussing nonsense for the longest peroid of time, i will start saying this religion is bull shit and that relgions people eat monkey , please every one come and fight for their respective religions

malpaso, who you calling a moron? So strong behind a screen ey?

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

self-pretension.

i guess, i understand what made the aged lady's mind so stone-cold....

men to blame, i understand, but only men? not herself, to think in deep?

but it's an old joke between verm and me when he first demonstrated his html skills with such pride :-D

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

By verisimilitude at 2009-08-26

Another name monkey!

i do.

honestly.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!

You silly boys seem to think maturity is something to be dreaded or feared. Just pray you reach 50 as healthy and happy as I am :-D

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I think it made certain 'other' OLDER people feel like five years olds

By verisimilitude at 2009-08-19

They are both just variations on the long pompous new nickname you chose after you were banned.....

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

little friend malpaso. Anybody referring to you as vers or versi must spell as badly as I do. How silly for you to involve the mods with my inability to spell! lol Did that make you feel like a big boy? :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

do you feel sorry for her?

is this random old lady who keeps calling me names...

I keep asking her to call me ver, veri, veris, verisi or even versi

Even the mods had to get involved

still she just can't get over her childish name calling behavior

but now i begin to feel sorry for her

maybe she is mentally disturbed

if calling me names makes her feel better, I'll indulge her and politely remind her to address me in a manner that is not insulting...

to find peace.

try to find peace by humanity, not by arguing.

If so, then yes you should definitely reflect upon your behavior.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I remember when QL first started posting on QatarLiving

and she admonished me for some comments I made to PM

and look what we have come to now...

bad things happen

if it happens only to you and no one else... and it happens once...

its probably not your fault, just at the wrong place at the wrong time

But if it happens again... hmmm...

and again and again and AGAIN...

its time you do some reflection

wonderful people who taught me about the Prophet (saw) and how he spread Islam in a gentle way, teaching respect for others, without the harshness that we see so often today in the way some Muslims deal with non-Muslims. I am drawn to God's Love and Mercy, rather than drawn to him out of fear. It was really the sirah of the Prophet (saw) that cemented my faith. That -- and the good Muslims I know in real life -- keep my faith in Allah very strong, even when my faith in so-called Muslims is not.

Perhaps the biggest irony is that outside of the Internet, I have never had a Muslim doubt my faith or speak so disrespectfully about me as a Muslim. So all in all, I guess that 90% of my life interacting with Muslims is good and the 10% that is bad takes place on QL -- lol

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

western AGED ladies consider theirselves still worthwhile in 'many ways' ofcourse.....

gosh ! wish they could have had a home to share !

ha ha ha.... good !

so, you get dissolved with other liquid, right?

good !

not seeing is better than seeing only a part, understood, you moron?

Its Sugar Qtr, can't you see?

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

(the latest in about a dozen that have been banned previously) he lists himself as 66 and over -- lol Of course he also says he's from India this time, and we know that's not true either.

Actually, I find his attempt to disrespect me amusing and don't mind at all Sugar Qtr. It's much better than some of the very nasty things about his personal life he has said to me off the forum. YUCK.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

you are funny,

know why?

coz you have only one eye.

:)

Can u just tell us all whats positive about islam, and leave the rest out

I think thats what needed, i mean the reason you have kept hanging on to it after ur seperation,

In this blessed month the person who does Dawah has no measure of reward, so instead of saying things like what and whos wrong, just say whats right without mentioning the mistaken (as the saying goes hate the crime not the criminal)

Or eventualy you in the spirit of teaching the misguided ones a lesson (who turn people away from islam) - The Master will eventually end up Becoming the PUPIL

Show more resource and understanding like you show ur students and forgive and forget after all u r our elder.

Aged Lady? malpaso, that is inappropriate! If you have issues with PM you should take it else where and not on a public forum. What manners do people have?

FYI, aged women think wiser. So have respect for the older women you communicate with. It would only reflect the respect that one would have for one's own mother.

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

certainly doesn't have...

the others log in once in a while, but, the AGED LADY logs in twice/thrice a day.... day, nite, noon, midnite... and start quarreling... why? coz its better to quarrel with someone when there is none beside...

poor empty aged lady... may Allah gives her someone, one day, who wont leave her... all she need to be, is a bit rational.

Amen.

Why are you here day and night? :-P

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

ashadu anna laa ilaha illaallah, wa ashadu anna Muḥammadan rasul'allah.

Meaning:

I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and I bear witness that Mohammad is the Messenger of God.

I guess since you probably never actually made your shahada you don't know this part. :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Neither you, verm, QatariLady, Ashwin, Edifis, I'm not a troll, sugar qtr, madhatfx and eveyone else on here has no one to pass quality time with! ROFLMBO

Poor little perverted boy..... :-P

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I know many of wonderful Muslims who I think represent Islam in its best light. Some are even posting here on QatarLiving (just not in this thread -- lol). I also know many wonderful Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, sikhs, Baha'is, etc.

But I would say that some Muslims do our faith a lot of harm in the way they approach others. And that always makes me sad; but grateful that my first serious contact with Islam wasn't at the hands of these people. I can only imagine how many people they will turn away from Islam.... :-(

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

how can anyone else be there with you, verm?

Logic.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Isn't that a priority for US? If it is, then please admit you have been propagating lies on QL in a misguided effort to advance Islam. That should be YOUR priority dear; not deflecting things into something "new" you discovered AFTER you were called on making the dishonest statement that Baha'is commit incest. Really that's shameful...

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

qatarilady,

this is the old problem with the OLD AGED lady.... lol

when she can't defend your concept, she will start making issue with minor/immaterial error or she will attak you personally....

in fact, this is a common problem for ALL AGED LADIES... specailly who are empty and alone.... they are emply and alone coz people can't live with them.... poor aged ppl....

:)

you are wasting your time .... someone wont understand.. coz she doesn't know how to do that....

she can just spit and get spitted... so that she can justify to herself that she's not a left-aloner.... :)

why the heck someone would fight with others here, when she has someone to pass quiality time with? funny, but, sad for the AGED lady...

just like the days at the height of the nazi occupiers.....moral policing of the people, spying on your fellow people etc.....many many similarities

does this give u people satifaction to do stuff like this after all the talk on brotherhood and equality.....shame on ye all....hang in there PM....

huh?? Whats happening here? :#

Shuaibkazi, I second that.

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

is not a matter of you saying you believe

it is the acceptance that it is an ABSOLUTE FACT

that there is only one creator for you and everyone else on the planet

Now you can accommodate someone who believes differently...

but you have to have the courage to stand up and say that you think that all other faiths are wrong...

These discussions which cause divide between your fellow bro and sis arent going to help anyone, pray for eachothers guidance. Keep the umma united and believe in the reason you posted this post in the first place.

PM..

Obviously you have a problem understanding prioritization!

When compared to faking messengers, incest becomes a minor detail!

Research if you're interested and have time what Muslim scholars teach about the jurisprudence of priorities!

I am alone in my room right now...

If I were to say, "I witness there is no one else in this room except me this instant"

And lets say another person says there is another person in this same room as well this same instant...

How do I justify to myself that what he say's is true?

Only one of us... can be true...

unless of course I am not sure that my statement was right to begin with?

It seems you have found the perfect faith but the feel who follow that faith arent upto your standards,

Unlike your former faith which wasnt perfect in its ideology but the people who followed it were better than that faith

Am i right

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

so I would not have that right anyway :-)

Besides, the US is not an "Islamic state" and thus they are not inclined to change their definition of incest to appease a religious group. Usually the Islamic scholars say that people in those circumstances should move to a Muslim country.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

BOYCOTT AND GIRLCOTT RELIGIOUS THREADS!

.

this little comment about incest is an intelligent distraction from the enormous comment that preceded it... that too at the stroke of iftar...

I think as a Muslim, you should be more worried about your Islamic right to marry your cousin which is denied to you by your state...

Subhan Allah how the best of intentions can get dragged into such horrible discussions,

WINN if there is a satan i am sure he would love to have you on his side, you would do wonders for him and his endeavours

[img_assist|nid=96642|title=Prop|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=369]

Wonder what would happen if I stated that Qataris committed incest (which in my country includes sex between 1st cousin, illegal in almost every state). Would you think that is a minor detail? Or would you say it is a malicious attack on Qataris in an attempt to discredit them?

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

No comment...

PM..

I can see yoy're still focusing on my mistake over a minor detail while you're conveniently still ignoring the bigger corruption (faking messengers).

How typical of you..

I'd like to see you praising and defending your own religion, Islam(!), in the same dedication!

But the first part of that is "I witness" so it is a statement about MY belief. Not everyone else's.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

You do remember your Shahadath don't you...

'There is no God BUT Allah...'

You think that associating this fundamental aspect of Islamic faith to you is discrediting you? How so?

I wouldn't say QL spreads lies... she was misinformed a few times and was not above correcting herself by admitting the error... I wish I could say the same about a few other people I know...

It's not my place to say what is right for you or anyone else. Don't try to push me to say something as part of your nasty little game to discredit me.

The only problem I have with QL is when she spreads lies and misinformation as part of her campaign to discredit other religions. I have no doubt about her faith and her firm belief that she has made the right decision as she sees it.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM said...

"people should be tolerant and respectful of others religions and keep it to themselves that they believe theirs is superior (unless asked, of course; in which case they should still be diplomatic)"

that's a definite improvement from when you were admonishing QL for believing that her faith is superior to that of others...

So am I to gather that you too believe that the Islamic faith is superior to other faiths or no?

Well said PM, well said.

And I don't know and don't care what the trolls gender is.

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

people should be tolerant and respectful of others religions and keep it to themselves that they believe theirs is superior (unless asked, of course; in which case they should still be diplomatic).

What I can't abide is people making up lies and spreading ignorance just to demean another religion. I have had to personally straighten many non-Muslim people out about Islam when they made statements that weren't true; and I will continue to do it when Muslims make statements about other religions that aren't true.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Sugar - ????

MisKeena... Troll is a chick ?????

Sounded like a man till date to me....

And Sugar....

To be honest.. it is better to discuss whtever feeling we have....

If anyone has a opininon and doesn share jus cause he doesn wan to invite attention or trouble...

It ll always be in him.. unanswered....

when you see intolerant or outspoken people like me and others here.....

we are trying to answer the dirty part of personality in all...

No matter how loudly I say secularism is the best thing.....

But deep down inside everyone thinks.. My religion is the best one.... I say secularism so tht the others don feel bad.. thts it....

I am fighting that within me..... this thing exist in all.. it has to be answered and eliminated from root...

Avoiding it is not the solution..... answering it is....

Khalid... QataryLady.... PM... Gypsy..UmmJake where the F are you all.... ??

Or too tiring to read those lengthy posts ??? :)

Blame the troll... he triggered me to type so much :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

was responding to the agitation of the newest screen name used by hucklebery fin [sic], aka tomsware [sic], aka rafsanjani, aka malpaso.

Anyway, go back to your discussion and sorry for the highjack.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

ashwin dear, leave her alone. Miskeena, she is trying too hard.

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

Fighting ??? Insulting ???

That is why I emphasized on LISTEN to what I want to say...

NOT READ WHAT YOU WANT TO READ...

pick sentenses get triggered.. and then ask me .....

Which part of

But there is one thing you ll have to keep in mind...

when you listen to anything I share... you ll have to keep a open mind and take it...

Sounded like Fighting or Either of us insulting any of ours Religion.....

Football... Yap... reconsider the example.... tht is exactly what I meant.....

read what is written not what you want to :)

As you mentioned about majority not following the religion the way it should be....

Don you think Football as a religion should be taken more seriously than this Hindu Muslim Christianity Jews Buddhists Jainest Singhalist ... etc etc etc etc

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

YOU Started. NOT ME. Till YOUR post, I did not attack any one personally on this thread.

YOU BEGGED FOR IT. I SERVE YOU. Thats it. If YOU want more, I can serve YOU.. BUT, make sure, YOU beg for it.

And I'm quite sure, i'm getting much attention here, else no body would have taken the pain to respond on my questions.

It is YOU, Member For:

23 hours 32 min

55 points

seeking attention. !!! Now YOU may get, cos YOU are fighting with ME! :)

I am not a troll, you are a rude person and I will not respond with such hate. Miskeena, you are looking for attention.

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

Isn't the same thing applicable to YOU? Why don't you just mind YOUR business and move OUT from this thread?

Why can't people just get along and not interfere with other people's business?

~*Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret*~

"You are well versed with all the Upanishads.. vedas.... Bhagwat Gita..... Ramayan... Mahabharat..... and many more.... "

NOT all Ashwin! :)

"Are you acting in Mission Impossible 5 by any chance ??? :) "

I wish to :P

"But there is one thing you ll have to keep in mind...

when you listen to anything I share... you ll have to keep a open mind and take it..."

Did you ever felt that i was FIGHTING with YOU? Or INSULTING your religion? rather than understanding and asking questions out of curiosity ? :)

About the Emirs pic,

Drinking Alcohol is forbidden in Islam, WHY many Muslims drink?

Is that answer YOUR question ? :)

And coming to the serious note, Ohh ..foot ball, you made me nostalgic. really miss my college days :(

to justify her existance....

to justify her left-alone-ness...

to justify her lonliness,

to justify her immoral accusation

to justify her not being able to see her own face to mirror

to justify her tears at the end of the day.

Troll- :) You asked for it... You get it.... :)

Mythology is not wht I call it... it is the non-believers..... as you quoted me saying tht.....

You are well versed with all the Upanishads.. vedas.... Bhagwat Gita..... Ramayan... Mahabharat..... and many more.... Dude.... here.. it is not Jus one Holy Book....

Upanishads are 16 Volumes.. Veds are 4 in total.....

Dude.. for a Non believer to read understand and internalize all this.... ????

Are you acting in Mission Impossible 5 by any chance ??? :)

B T W I don see... any relevance of these questions to counter debating with Winn regarding Kaaba and direction of bowing down...

But if it is out of curiosity... and since if you accepted that if it is mentioned in the Holy Book you ll accept it...

thank you for accepting their existence.... and as I said... I ll have to search for those Shloka's about their departure from Earth..... which would not happen in span of two posts.... it ll need time... but shall be answered soon.... before this topic goes out of hot topic......

And no.. Screwed ?????? for what ???

Honestly.. this is those rare times... I have a platform where I m answering posting in a religious forum and discussing about Hinduism.... as I said before....

I don unless asked for.... :)

M Loving it.... how about you ???

But there is one thing you ll have to keep in mind...

when you listen to anything I share... you ll have to keep a open mind and take it...

Do not judge it as soon as you hear it....

Listen.... when I say Listen.. it is while hearing don start thinking of a counter answer based on your reference line....

:)... I am not saying forget yours..

Wht I am saying is.... wht is happening now is

Like - You play Cricket... I am telling you about Football.....

Don look at Football with reference to Cricket... it ll be false.... and funny too.. :)

Why all 22 have to run for one ball.... in our sports only 3 are active at a time....

something like tht :)....

Ok to cont the discussion... I would like to ask the question which was left unanswered.....

If Pictures are not religiously allowed... why is it that Emirs and his Sons are kept in all offices ????

departure of Hindu Gods... shall be answered soon.... wait :)

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

"I know it had happened... but you ll ask questions which ll be irrelevant to discussion rt now....."

Are you confessing that you are getting screwed? :) I can stop the discussion right NOW! I found this as one of the healthy debate in QL, no personal attacks .. nothing. YET . RIGHT?

"Its called Hindu Mythology by who ever writes it in Media... for us it was a epic... and ancient Vedic history... you started wht I wanted to avoid... :)"

You intended me to do SO! :)

"but the verses say they came ... they lived on this planet and finished their commitment....."

Yes, I just want to know WHERE are they NOW! Or what happened to them after their assigned job, to which you replied as a mythology! :)

"Would you believe this cause it is mentioned IN MY Holy Book ????"

As far as i studied about your religion, It is not mentioned is any of your holy books, what happened to them after their job. I purposely put this question, just to make YOU reply about mythology. Just to reply to Winn's comment about that kaaba thing. :)

the aged lady,

told you bout a woman,

old aged,

she can't help

empty,

she has none to blame,

alone,

she has none permanent to have dinner with,

poor,

she doesnt' have wealth in mind,

jealous,

she doesnt have a first family,

rude,

she wants attention

pretender,

she wants to attract.

but, after all, at the end of the day, she's damn empty and alone.

PM - Wrong thread... recheck... you typing on the rt one.....

Troll - I say Mythology... as it is called so by the non believers... I do not intend to force my believes on you.... I know it had happened... but you ll ask questions which ll be irrelevant to discussion rt now.....

Its called Hindu Mythology by who ever writes it in Media... for us it was a epic... and ancient Vedic history... you started wht I wanted to avoid... :)

As I told yo before... I am not a correct man.. I am not well versed with the Holy books... tht i ll say page no this and para this...... Its cool to be religious these dayz.....

but the verses say they came ... they lived on this planet and finished their commitment.....

Would you believe this cause it is mentioned IN MY Holy Book ???? If yes... I ll wack my head to search for the exact Shlokh.... which says where did they GO after killing the demon or preaching their words and valves.... :)

May I ??

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

and it shows how any empty, old aged, lone lady spit and stir the pot.

what else THE OLD AGED can does, since none to blame for her insignificance?

attn Khalid the tiger

sorry but ur answer is not satisfactory and misleading....u were asked to justify why ur way is the right way without using ur book of worship.....

did GOD TELL YOU to how to worship him and how to go about doing it.....again u are being asked to prove why is yours the right way without the texts as a source.....

pls answer in ur own words u have another chance for justifying what u believe...use it well.

Khalid - True.... All questions you ask me here...

I have asked myself... read about it... and only then accepted it.....

I m a tough nut to crack...

Yes even those we term as Bad.. are GODs....

Good and Bad are relative terms.... you ll agree with me on that....

Wht is good for you.. shall be bad for someone else....

wht is true for you.. shall be a nightmare for someone ..

Or may be not...

If this world is creation of GOD.... if this world has come out from God... how can we the ones born here can be anything else but God...

Minute percentage of Infinite power too is infinite...

But as you rightly ask.. how can God do wrong things...

How can god not let me be on right track... why natural instinct is to be a Bad man.. to be a social outlaw....????

Thanks to social conditioning of our thinking and social structure.... we have forgotten we too are part of him...

we all are connected to each other.. in a manner which cannot be sensed by the 5 sense organs given to us....

How can we forget tht we are God ????

If you are Bilingual or multilingual (Sorry Americanism.. it ll be diff for you to imagine here.. )

When you speak in a language.... Are the words of other language you know come in to your mind ?? NO...

Now i speak to you in English... there is no Hindi or Marathi words in my Mind...

Does that mean I don know Hindi and Marathi ??

But If I think of these languages.. all these words and crammer all rush into my mind.... I can speak Marathi and Hindi then...

same way... if I think and see.. all that I see GOD as.. same thing exists in me......

Helping... generous...honest... mighty... powerful.....

merciful... you think of wht god is... it is present in you...... Often clouded by our stupid minds thinking.....

we are slaves to our brain.. the moment the brain is our slave... we are Gods.....

Let the hearts rule.. and the brain serve... not other way round...

If I am able to see God in You and others..... tht ll be a blessing for me.....

It ll be a blessing if I could see you as my own part.....

Ok.. now.. we enjoy the pleasure and pain of our own body... its fun...

If you have few close frens... you ll feel happy for them if they get a Job or a child... as happy as if you yourself have got a Job.. or a baby ?????

It is like you can feel connected to those 4 to 5 people...

You feel very sad if they go through trouble.... as if you are bearing that pain.....

Feeling connected to say 5 to 6 bodies.. multiplies your Joy ......

Imagine.. if you could feel connected to everyone around ?????

What differenciates you me and prophets born ????

They could feel connected to all of us... they cared about our pain.... they where so happy living as if living in our bodies too....

They worried about our problems as if it was there own problem and helped us.. as if I help myself to come out of it....

I want to taste that nector too.....

I m still trying... to see God in you ... the day tht happens... I ll like you more than I do now... irrespective of which religion anyone follows...

Dude you think Someone like GOD.. as powerful as him cares about nouns are rituals ??????

Ever seen a Elephant being annoyed by what a Ant thinks of him ????

HE is mightier than a Elephant.. we are smaller than a ant for him.... he does even care about the dogs barking at him.. Ant is totally out of question..... :)

We are not as important or worthy as we think we are... really...

But if everything is GOD... then why there is negativity.. evil.. bad.... how ???

He says everything has a purpose....

I am not very convinced with the answer I have now....

He says.. if there is no pain... you wont know wht pleasure.... is.....

and I wont you to come beyond the want of either pain and pleasure.... they are relative terms.....

You say you are happy with respect to wht you think is normal.....

If I dislike pleasure as much as I dislike pain....

then I am God.....

Cause even the pleasure comes as Pain hidden...

desire to cont. the pleasure we are in.. is the very root or start of pain.....

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

huh?

pervert. He should be ashamed to even sign in to QL after his behavior with women on the forum.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Are YOU ok ? :(

You are in wrong window ... :)

I guess you just can't conceive of women being happy unless they are married to a pervert husband who discusses their most intimate secrets with other women. HARAM.

BTW, maybe in your country 50 is old but in mine we say it is when life begins! And I'm loving it! Poor little impotent fellow...

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

"troll - :) Nice question..... These Gods came on earth in different time frames. and generations....

As per the so called Mythology (I believe it was for real :) )"

Mythology? ROFLing Ash! When i told about the kaaba thing as the qibla cos Allah said so, you guys where telling like, 'everything ends up telling GOD tell us to do' And with in a jiff time, how come YOU say that it is a MYTHOLOGY?

"these Gods or re-incarnation came on to earth for a purpose.... accomplished it and went back to Heaven.. or wherever Gods reside...."

I BET there is no verses in in YOUR holy books telling they went back to heaven or where ever. RIGHT?

"Mohammad the Prophet was a man.... so is there a record of where he chose to leave his body ??????

Or was buried ?????"

The Prophet was buried the next day at the same place where he died. The place of his burial was decided by his saying as related by Abu Bakr (ra): “Allah does not cause a prophet to die but in the place where he is to be buried.”

Prophet's Mosque in Madinah contains the chamber in which the Prophet Muhammad is buried. just FYI !

ashwindoke you do not have value or respect for God

your qoute is the evidence "For me.. everyone is GOD... its jus that we have forgotten it.... Take it or leave it.."

When you say everyone, you also include the bad people and you are saying that educated people are same as those not educated, fair people are same as those who are not fair, ...etc.

To make a summary of your belief my friend, Good things and bad things are equal for you, see the above comments.

All your comments does not make sense.

Winn -

Fear, guilt and superiority in faith... this is the initial stage of Religion or faith....

And if someone seeks further.... it goes beyond.....

Civilization or society needs rules....

if not religion then constitution..... we need rules...

be be human is to be wise enough to not give all that this body demands... not following pray to sense organs... but commanding them. OK m hijacking the thread if I cont more....

troll - :) Nice question..... These Gods came on earth in different time frames. and generations....

As per the so called Mythology (I believe it was for real :) ) these Gods or re-incarnation came on to earth for a purpose.... accomplished it and went back to Heaven.. or wherever Gods reside....

But there are Places where Great Saints (prophets) have given there Lives (Samadhi).... they where powerful enough to take there soul out of the body by choice....

And those places are well known pilgrimages.....

By the know... pardon me for sharing my Ignorance....

But if I can ask the same doubt.....

Mohammad the Prophet was a man.... so is there a record of where he chose to leave his body ??????

Or was buried ?????

As far as I know.....Mecca Madina is the place where he used to pray.... rt ???? thts why all are requested/asked to pray there too.....

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Versi -

Exotic Gal is on wrong forum... this is English... sooner she realizes... better for us :)

And Idolatry - It is not the same in both religion....

And as mentioned before by troll too... a lot depends on faith than logic.... when it comes to rituals and religious acts.....

Idols in Hinduism are treated very much like a Picture of God.... it gets exactly the same treatment/respect/love one has for God himself... or hate/anger... whichever emotion is applicable.... :)

Khalid - Photo of priest ????

NO Saints... Saints are like Prophets....

Priests/Pandits are people praying and doing the rituals in temples....

Saints are those wanderers... or Yogis who spread the teachings of scriptures.... and words of Gods...

They are respected.. very much like messengers of Gods...

And about a Hindu fren of yours saying a Human is God..

As mentioned before.. In Hinduism... everything and everybody is GOD...

If we are Quite we can listen what he wants to say....

Specially when something good happens because of someone.... it is said.. God did it through him... so at that moment or incidence.... He is GOD....

For me.. everyone is GOD... its jus that we have forgotten it.... Take it or leave it..

When it comes to Faith... Logic is Lame... Need to go beyond

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Ok, Agreed that you need a picture / idol to worship a GOD cos you need a thing to focus or sentimental. So, if I'm not wrong, there is a group among Hindus, who don't worship this idols right?(correct me if I'm wrong) What about them?

And the concept of Hinduism, what i studied is, like as you said a superior power has decentralized into various God's, one for wealth, wisdom, destruction etc? And they where sent for different purpose. So, Where are they NOW? You cannot say that they are dead after their job done cos its dumb believing to a dead God. ? They are absconding since ages??

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=article&id=565

I found this on www.islamway.com

Laying sweeping claims to whatever is good, in past, present or future. Another game religion plays. If its good, its coz of religion, if its bad, its coz people have gone wrong. yeah wash ur hands...

Why religions came? Coz people in positions of power love making rules to bring the rest in line. and what better way to bring them in line than put the fear of hereafter and lure of heaven for their confirming and concurring? What better way than to convince them tht you have the exclusive franchise rights to the only and only power who is supposed to be the key to all unanswered questions in life? The panacea?.and for that you need people who 'talk' to the power, and books written by such people on what the 'power' supposedly told em.

Fear, guilt and superiority in faith. Thats how they sell it.

Also the ego-massage that the homocentric view of the world gives em. What better ego trip than the one that tells you tht the whole universe was made for you and your kind to grace with your presence?

to have PM, rather than any old aged lady, ofcourse !

btw, on a serious note, in most of the cases, i disagree with gypsy, but, she seems to do one thing quite well-- while discussing in forum, she doesnt seem to hurt someone's self-esteem/ego, unlike any old aged frustrated lady.

veri, i guess, you wont go for the date even if the old lady is the last one on earth ! right?

lol.

Winn if you have good attitude and respect to others then most probably you are having a religion but you are not aware of it.

Have you asked your self why religions came or as you say man made?

verisi: Does everything have to be taken in a muslim/non-muslim perspective? Cant it be that a veteran poster is warning others about a troll/trouble-maker? Do you have to drag religion there too?

Not a troll: You might have to ask a worshipper to know exactly how they feel. My view point is not a believer's and I would say that its because some places allow you to focus ur intent clearer and then there are people who talk abt energy fields n such.

Anyways my point was to demonstrate that from where I stand i dont see much difference in the basic principles of how people worship whether they are Hindus, Muslims or christians. Only difference is in the modalities. and it doesnt tell me you some faith is better or worse off for that.

Also I have repeated coupla times that i din say you 'worship' kaaba the object. What I meant is that its a symbol towards which you focus ur intent during prayers.

The way I see it, its all mind games, no matter how you worship. All in the mind.

empty lady.... old aged, none to blame, cursing other's happiness... none for dinner, none for share, none for PERMANENT.

poor in mind.

Why some hindu indians take a photo of priest or very religious man in the temple and say this is their God?

Also I know one Hindu indian said to his boss you are our God here? Where is the respect to God?

When a man take a piece of a stone and make a statue and say this is his God, the same man who made the statue can damage the statue, right?

One of the short debates in the holy Quran was between our prophet Ibrahim and a king called Nimrud,

Ibrahim: God makes things live and die.

Nimrud: I make things live and die.

Ibrhim: How?

Nimrud: If I ask them to hang some one he will be dead and if I tell them free him, he will live.

Ibrahim: God raises the sun from the east so raise it from the west.

Nimrud did not answer and was shocked.

This is only one example.

The real question how good is our respect to our God.

The difference makes the difference.

I will give you one example when God tells you to worship him only and you put another person as a partner for God then this is wrong way of worshiping God.

Can some one tells me why some companies or organizations join other companies (joint venture)?

Actually Exotic girls 2 the real sad thing is that you don't have the brains to comprehend the fact that no muslim posters have said here that they hate other faiths... they just don't think its true...

I don't think you are a genuine poster... but that needn't necessarily mean that I hate you...

And FYI... (FYI is short for 'For your information')... Muslims do believe that 'some' people in the past even before the advent of Islam will have a place in heaven...

So read a bit before you make up your mind... Oh wait... 'you no know able English understand to read?'... oops sorry... my bad...

It sad Muslims hate other faiths love should be for all mans and womans god made us all

God made the peoples that born in country that not know Muslims in past they deserve heaven too

I think the distinction you made about the ka'aba is key in why Muslims pray towards it

Our prayer is not directed at it...

We do not worship the Ka'aba... we worship Allah

The Ka'aba is not made in the shape of a diety

Besides, why focus on the salat...

we offer prayers in many other ways...

we offer dua, we read the Quran, we do good deeds like charity and philanthropy

but it is not directed in the name of an idol, object or religious institution...

Allah has chosen Mecca as a religious place

Many of his most loved prophets have lived and propagated their teachings in this lands...

You cannot equate it to idolatry

If muslims were to make a shape of the ka'aba and then worship it... then it would have been idolatry... but that's just not the way its done and neither is it encouraged

Besides, we are mistaking the symbolism of worshiping in a common direction with idolatry... this is technically not true...

Idolatry is... 'the worship of a physical object as a god'

We do not consider Ka'aba to be God... we do not attribute any divine powers to the Ka'aba...

We have to differentiate between praying to an object and praying in a certain direction

Its very considerate of you to rally up this way for nonMuslim posters....

that pervert hucklebery fin, aka tomsware, aka rafsanjani aka king of the stupid one-line comments. Just ignore.

Gypsy, he's hardcore, alright. Be careful about letting him be a "hardcore Gypsy fan". you might find your self receiving disgusting private messages from him :-(

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Hmm..

Ok..

God being present everywhere... this is answered in lines written after that sentence... tht answers your question....

Even though God is Omnipresent... we pray in a particular place only... etc etc etc.. same wht is mentioned...

I say it is contradictory - cause I should be able to see God in everything and everywhere.... but still long way to go in spiritual quest....

But still we channelize on one particular Idol...

I know it is Just a Idol... but when I say through it I see God... that Idol is paid respect and love or say feelings and emotions I have for God.....

If you respect and love a thing as much as God.... how can you treat it anything less than him/her. If God has to be given a gender.... its better to be with SHE.. even Hinduism says HE.. but thts my personal feeling.. to be so merciful and forgiving.. has to be a female :)

Its Like My Parents Photos in my wallet....

It is not Parents.... But when I look at it... it reminds me of the love I have for them and the pampering I think I righteously deserve....

Of course even though it is jus piece of paper....

But a day ll come... when they ll not be with me anymore.... :( Then this piece of paper ll be treated like parents by me....

I see dad looking at GrandPa's Pic for hours.....

Now I know why.....

No not emotionally attacking or blackmailing you :).... Jus to show equivalent example....

Now you got the point....?????

May be I m not tht good with words... but try to see wht I intend to put forward.....

If still in doubt let me know... m blessed with fingers which don get tired :)

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Not that good enough Ashwin ! :)

"through tht Idol .. means I see God in tht Idol.... irrespective of wht it is made up of....."

As YOU stated,

AGAIN i'm asking, if you see GOD IN that idol, Isn't that means that IDOL is a GOD? Are you trying to say that You see GOD THROUGH that IDOL??Then its okei, I can understand as Winn to stated. But your above statement is misleading.

"Even this is logically contracdictory to the well known and accepted fact tht GOD is every where..."

Yeah, GOD is omnipresent Isn't that same applicable to the Kaaba thing? :)

Troll - :) You provoked me for yet another religious answer on basis on physics... may be little more on the faith side of it... You asked for it.. so all the best....

The Idols are termed Krishna or any God for that Matter...

again it is not the Stone or the Wood part of it.... the symbolic picture/image of Lord Krishna tht is prayed.....

You think it ll make any sense... if I say.. OK this is a STONE.. a window through which i ll be feeling connected to God ????

No...

through tht Idol .. means I see God in tht Idol.... irrespective of wht it is made up of.....

One prays that God tht it sees in it...

Even this is logically contracdictory to the well known and accepted fact tht GOD is every where.....

then why do we need places like Temple Mosque and churches...

Answering this shall also answer... the question you raised about some of your Hindu frens saying tht God in a particular temple is damn powerful and gives wht you ask for....

And here the physics and mystery of Human brain functioning starts....

Prayers... being a believer . you ll accept are powerful...

it is some energy which exists... may be a thought...

wht gives power to it is the intensity ... faith...

faith tht if I ask for this to God... I ll get it...

Intensity opens many channels in you... It also alters the environment... your surrounding... things happen to help us out in wht we endeavor...

In sports.. who wins.... ??

most talented or the one who really has wants to win.. hunger to win.....

Of course Talent is important... but after some stage.. intensity of the feeling matters the most...

this is intensity of one individual...

if this could be cumulated... unified... don you think it ll be more powerful.... ??

Tht is for a Mosque .. a temple.. a church...

many intense prayers are summed up in one place....

Why you think as soon as we enter these places.. they have a Aura of its own.. very different to any other public building....

the thoughts.. the energy level .. the anxiety of people in it affects the environment in these places...

More the intensity in faith of people and trust in the God... more better the Human Mind is fooled to think it ll happen..

and once the mind is convinced it shall...

It does ....

Compare it to people going to Mecca Madina for Omrah and prayers...

God is everywhere....

Praying in the Mosque nearby and at Mecca must be giving you a very different feeling...

same is for the temples .... :) and churches too ....

All this religion and stuff is to make us understand... and convince us ... YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU WANT.....

good enough ???

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Of course that where everything ends. Any one of us have to stop this never ending argument. You tells / believe what your logic says and i believe what is written in the Quran. Respect both! Simple! If it is for an argument, i can again say that Kaaba, its for unity, in the center of the world etc etc.. which you will again comes with a counter argument of your geometry!

"I was using it to prove the point that those guys also see it just as a symbol and not God/Ganesha himself."

I have asked a question 'why they call the IDOL as 'Krishna'(their GOD) if they are not worshiping that, before which you replied that YOU have NO clue about that.

Thats the point where i got confused, When they call that particular Idol as GOD, why should they throw in the sea?

"None of the Hindus I know would say that the idol that they hav at home/temple is the deity itself."

I personally know many Hindus who says the Idol of a particular temple is SO powerful that they fulfill their wish if prayed from there.

:) even if the Hindus call the Idol as God... many wont... but even if they do.. it is out of respect/love for the God... so don think there is anything wrong in it...

My point of view is of a believer... true...

but not very much into Idol worship... I admire it... know its importance... but I am more into philosophical and Spiritual side of it... and less of rituals...

And Physics was my fav subject in school so don think any further you Mr. troll... :)

And sinking the Idol in water... doesn mean tht Idol/God is not respected.... thts how the festival is...

Whatever starts has to end.... festivals too....

If the people are not as Pious as they are at Ramadan.. doesn mean they disrespect the faith for 11 months....

tht is wht festivals are... they start they end... they have a purpose.....

If It (Idol) was actually a God.... being present at every house and listening to every prayer and saying " I (God) Bless you"..... Tough Job to be a God... :)

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

Thanks for the piece of info!

'Not a troll': Guess thats where evrything ends. 'God told us to do it, so we do it'. Nice.

"Its just 'our belief'. There is no point in arguing for that, and it will again reach back to square one!"

Btw, thts wht I was getting at. Its just Your belief.

Ashwin is talking from a believer/follower's perspective and I was talking from an observer/student's perspective. I did not mean to say its a sign of disrespct to put the idol in the sea. I was using it to prove the point that those guys also see it just as a symbol and not God/Ganesha himself. If they thought the idol itself was God, would they do it? i doubt it. I'm sure Ashwin would agree with me on that.

What Ashwin said about respecting the idols doesnt contradict what I said about them not confusing the symbol with God. Also, believers respect their symbols. Its natural. Whether its an image of Kaaba or an idol.

None of the Hindus I know would say that the idol that they hav at home/temple is the deity itself. Even if they did , I dont think nobody would call them heretics. Typical Indian sangfroid, which I so love.

Confussed - ???? Was I over estimating you till now ???? :)

Are you still confused or need some clarifications..... ??

___________________________________________

Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

isn't it most important that we live this life believing that there is SOMEONE of higher power than us humans? that we are happy and living a fulfilling life without hurting other people? just because we all differ in religions and each strongly believes in what he thinks is right, doesn't give anyone, and i mean ANYONE, to condemn others for not having the same beliefs as he does. We all believe that there is a higher God. and we are holding on to that FAITH. and judgment is not on our hands in the end. each and everyone of us should RESPECT what we believe in instead of putting words into each others mouths.

Troll - Throwing the idol in the sea... is not how it would be framed....

The festival is "Ganesh Chaturthi" started on 23rd Aug and generally is for 10 days, (can vary from place to place in India)...

Final day is called "Visarjan" that is departure of Lord Ganesha...

He comes to our place and gives us an opportunity for 10 days to serve him . we celebrate his stay at our place... and on the final day he leaves....

The idol that is prayed for this particular festival is then taken to nearest water reserve.. and sunk in it....

With hell lot of celebrations.. drum beats.. n colors... wht not..

You actually miss him for next couple of days....

with SLogans -

"Ganpati bappa morea...

Pudchya Varshi Laukar Ya"

This is in Marathi... wht it means.. leave it...

I wish I was in Mumbai now :(

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

its not confusion....its just that the cultures and the religions of the world are varied and deserve the same respect and u would accord your own.

Ashwin said: "We respect Idols and Don touch it with our feet..."

Winn said: "Do you know that in some festivals in India, the idols are thrown in the sea?"

I'm confused now! :(

Ash, Now leave the serious note.. ;)

Back to square one? :#

I don't know why you are repeating your previous post asking the same question and the idol which is thrown in the sea (No idea buddy, it would be great if you could mention the festival. just for my info).

"Then why do all the mosques around the world and all the worshippers (in their house, on teh roadside...) need to face that direction?"

I told you, Allah told to do so. We are doing that. simple as that. Its our belief, Accept it or NOT. Nobody is forcing you to do that. It may be a 'blind' belief to you. But of course not for us :)

"I can accept not knowing the answer and live comfortably with it without attributing it to an imaginary quotient and weaving my whole life around it."

Again, nobody is forcing to do right? Did anyone? Its your belief, go for it ..

And the kaaba part.. that's all i know much about that. Its just 'our belief'. There is no point in arguing for that, and it will again reach back to square one!

Troll - Difference in perception of "respect"

You respect Mecca but do stand on it....

We respect Idols and Don touch it with our feet... saying we respect Idols more than you do Mecca or Kaaba would be wrong.....

we both do... but the expression differs.... difference doesn mean one is right and the other is wrong....

I Love both Mom n Dad.... with Dad... m little more formal than I am in front of Mom... doesn mean I love one less than the other....

And now on serious Note -

exercise for 3 dayz.. rest and then start the cycle

Start with Chest and Triceps.. day 1

then Squats (Legs) and Abs.... day 2 - Never exercise 2 big muscles in cont... if chest done... never a back in next day..... you ll not live up to your potential....

Back, shoulder and trapezoids (collar)..... day 3

Eat 5 meals a day.. sleep like a Kid....

For size... heavy weights.... for cuts... lighter with more repeatations....

Did I miss anything here ???

Ya never forget the supporter...

Hernia screws irrespective of the God you follow... :)

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

You are totally wrong.

It is better exercise 6 days a week and a day rest for the body.

First day it is better to play for chest and triceps

Second day back and biceps

Third day your leg and shoulder.

Repeat the same through the next three days and a day rest will make your body FIT! You can have some protein drinks as well. ;)

Dont you think, I'm better than your 'physics' which most of them here doesn't understand? :)

Coming to the serious note,

Respect differ? I didn't get what you mean. Do you respect your Dad in one way and mom in other?Strange!

No my friend, Its not a discrimination. YOU itself told that YOUR belief is based on so many logic and current situation. So what if i too tell the same? YOU are now showing discrimination. :)

Now if you come up with E=MC sq / Speed = VxT, I will kick your arse for sure. :)

khalid says.."Ofcourse if you worship God in the wrong way then it will harm you first."

Please please answer....why do u think your way is the right way....or any of u of similar faith to this individual.

please explain in ur own words not that almighty says so.....please dont say that it is in the quran and please dont quote any texts.....as there is no proof to the validity that anyone can give regarding any texts.....ur prolonged insistence has forced this question on u...so why?

give respect to earn respect...peace

'Not a troll'.

Again, I din say you worship Kaaba. I said you use it as a symbol to worship ur God. Same way an idolator uses an idol as a symbol. Do you know that in some festivals in India, the idols are thrown in the sea? Why would they do it if they thought that was god?

"Certain things are beyond our imagination or logic my friend."- Quite a few things are , my friend. But I dont need one single entity to attribute all that to. I can accept uncertainity, I can accept not knowing the answer and live comfortably with it without attributing it to an imaginary quotient and weaving my whole life around it.

"Why i said it is for a unity is that, if you enter in a masjid, what is one pray on east, other on west, etc? it doesn't make any sense."

Fine. Then why do all the mosques around the world and all the worshippers (in their house, on teh roadside...) need to face that direction?

I will tell you why. A prayer is about focussing ur intent in such a way that you dictate (auto-suggest)it to your subconscious and believe it (based on ur faith in the power u r praying to) to an extent that it stands a chance of being realised as truth in your realm of perception. To this end, you need to focus ur intent. Christians use a cross, Hindus use their umpteen idols, some yogis focus between their brows, you guys focus on the direction towards Kaaba.

Basic principle is the same, dont you see?

Indeed, That was a good question.

The answer for your question is simple. Allah asked us to do, we are doing. We believe in him and his messenger. AS simple as that.

It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:

"We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah

that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are,

turn your faces in that direction."

[Al-Qur’an 2:144]

I don't know if there is any use quoting the verses from Quran to YOU, cos you believe in YOUR logic / common sense than any 'book'.

Certain things are beyond our imagination or logic my friend.

Why i said it is for a unity is that, if you enter in a masjid, what is one pray on east, other on west, etc? it doesn't make any sense.

I dont know why you felt that like an idol worship, At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. One may ask those who allege that Muslims worship the Kaaba; which idol worshiper stands on the idol he worships?

Troll - Many things in any religion are answered as you did... cause God asked us to do so....

And true... Faith is beyond Logic common sense and reasoning....

If it was proved.. it is not faith..

there is no faith for Einstein's E = M C^2

it is proven...People ll have to accept it...

Logic is lame...

And again... Most important factor is INTENSITY of FAITH... more important than on Wht ....

religious people are getting almost same strength or result in no matter wht they believe in...

Like - I don know how many of you even been to a Gym.

You ll see masculine guyz.. and all have concepts of there own....

One says never Exercise Back and Shoulders together....

Other says it has to be together....

One says Triceps and Biceps in one day... other says No Triceps with chest and Biseps with Back.. only...

One says exercise 3 days in a week.. another says 5 days.....

And all... all those who intensely exercise whtever way they believe in have beautiful Bodies....

Irrespective of wht they do.....

Intensity is all tht matters...

Why Do Hindus Don Stand on the Idols ????

Did I ever say.... we respect Idols exactly in same way as you do Qiblah ?????

Respect differs... perception differs..... not comparing... jus saying it differs....

And don be unfare for F sake....

Your believes you protect with faith.. others you judge with Logic..... :) thts descrimination.... lol

MAffi Good.... :)

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

"so why are they being vilified and ur action justified."

I NEVER DID ! I explained them what my belief is cos they asked me. I never told them to accept it. Did I ?

right?

hey....I am not a troll....so u pray in a particluar direction not because of idolatry but because it is just symbolic and unifying.....so do the others use praying to idols as a symbolic gesture and also pray together unitedly so why are they being vilified and ur action justified....duh no one actually thinks that the object is to be worshiped.....it is the symbolic gesture of worshiping GOD...same as u do.....so if they r guilty of wrong doing then so r u.

give respect to earn respect...peace

WoW! edifis! you got your personal stalker too....aint that cool!

lol

no offense !

lol

This Malpaso is stalking me!

It is not a troll, it is a ghost!

Quite a profound response, malpaso. Mind expounding how to go about it (in ur view)??

Not a troll: “everyone unites and pray in the same direction.”

And why is that necessary to pray to a power you believe ‘omnipresent’? I can understand it if all are in one single place( for ease of organizing the crowd) but to say that at anytime and any given place, whether alone or in groups, you have to bow to a single direction (where, coincidentally, a monument is situated) kinda smells of idolatry to me. Or do you think you mortals would confuse poor god if y'all pray in different directions?

It might be the centre of earth as per what you believe, so what? Btw, earth is kinda spherical so any place close to equator can be made centre. Simple Geometry. The World map as you see is just a ‘projection’ made for convenience sake by humans. don’t get carried away. ;)

As for why Hindus call it so, I still have no clue. Maybe coz everyone is welcome to their own version of the book. (Like Gandhi once said, “There are as many religions as there are people in this world) You might want to ask a believer. I am telling you from whatever I have been told so far.

..

get a life !

Verisi:First of all about being all over the place, you are not the only one am replying to. There are others raising other points. So.

As for ‘blindly’, just tell me do you implement in your life what is said in every single verse of Quran? I am sure you don’t. Again, blindly means following just coz it is written in the book and not coz you think that’s the right way to do it. Blindly means if I ask you a question on religion, instead of explaining the logic, you say its said so in the book, that’s why. Blindly means, people don’t go into the context of things and analyse it in correlation with the times it was written. I can tell you eg from portions on how you are expected to deal with non-muslims, but I guess you know that better than me.

And no, I don’t believe in one god or seven. Simply coz I don’t see any reason to. And I don’t believe that ‘God’ tells you to eat meat or not. It is the humans that wrote those books on ‘behalf’ of an imagined entity that put those rules down. Now tell me about the contradiction again.

About god being a lady animal or male, I don’t believe in any of those as I said above. But if a believer, for his peace of mind, worships any of these forms coz they display certain attribute/ some perceived qualities of ‘God’ then he is most welcome to it. As long as he accepts my belief and lets me be instead of strutting his stuff and preaching me. I do understand his concept about worshipping a different attribute in a different form and accept it as multi-dimensional thinking, eventho I wouldn’t do it.

I am adrift not just from Islam, but all religions. And that is coz, simply speaking I don’t need a book written centuries back to decide how I should live now. I can make that decision without any sweat.

Conscience doesn’t vary with time or age. You only learn to be numb or be sensitive to what your conscience tells you, over time.

Also, there is nothing that says there cant be more than one truth. It is not a simple concept, it is a simple-minded concept that there can be only one truth. A concept designed to lead the unsuspecting masses by the nose.And how do you know this is the truth even if you believe? Well you don’t. You just believe. Well suited for 7th century but for now? Not for me.

As for better concept of ‘truth’, May I suggest a bit of Zen? It has never ceased to amaze me with its irreverence to the traditional clergy. 

testing the new signature.... :)

Sorry for the hijack people... blame the j3375...

Back to discussion pls.. :)

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Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

ashwin,lol..at least somebody got some use out of that post of mine..its always a never win situation here on qliving with religious posts..catch u guys later..have fun..

Khalid - Typing is Waste...

Trust only Copy Paste... :)

j3375 - LMAO.... one of those goes in as my signature now... :)

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Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

I think what Gypsy describes is referred to as the 'shifting moral zeitgeist'.

***********

"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out". - Richard Dawkins

please return to your previous profile pic, i would be more fan of yours... :)

Is There Evidence God exists?

By - Yusuf Estes

Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.

Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.

Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.

Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.

Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.

[Please visit "Science Proves Allah": Watch video of famous scientists admit Quran is from Allah and even accept Islam]

The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.

No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.

We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences right in front of us.

We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).

how can we prove there is a god?

Note: "Proving" God exists is really not our purpose. We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe.

There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce. The reason is some people don't want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence. We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief. Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above. If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator. Again, it is not our job to "prove" anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.

We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; "Can you prove you exist?" Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.

One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, "Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not."

Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.

Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.

After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the cells in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident"?

(see also "Quran")

http://www.godallah.com

some short/some funny quotes on relegion/ the lack of it:

*God has no religion

*Religion is the human response to being alive and having to die

*If God doesn’t like the way I live, let him tell me, not you..

*If you have two religions in your land, the two will cut each other’s throats; but if you have thirty religions, they dwell in peace...

*The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.

*I considered atheism, but there weren’t enough holidays

*Men will wrangle for religion, write for it, fight for it, die for it, anything but live for it

*Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful

*An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support

*I believe in God, but I’m not too clear on the other details

*Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst.

*A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind and will not change the subject.

*Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer

*Religion is a pill best swallowed without chewing

j3375 - lol... I can see the live example here in Qatar....

Vodafone was welcomed with open arms.... Only QTEL was boring.... :)

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Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

edifis can't learn, even if he wants.... lol

gypsy can.

There's a lot of those. I attract quite the fan base.

ha ha ha.

i wish i could !

i am hardcore fan of gypsy, trust me, and that's why i care for her.

:)

Member For:

1 day 23 hours

24 points

An Anti gypsy person with new ID. :)

What malpaso and become an arrogant, disrespectful, prejudiced bigot?

learn from qatarlady.. i must say.

Ofcourse if you worship God in the wrong way then it will harm you first.

Can you tellme or answer why people have been created in different colors and speak different language?

Couldn't be easier to be exactly the same?

Islamic websites go, I'll give you that. It's easier to read, less in your face and preachy, and it tries to sound more enticing -- and I suspect it does attract more people than some of those other websites out there.

But it still falls into that pattern of "it's the immoral western lifstyle that is to blame for societies' ills".

I don't quite get how it is an answer to anything, though.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

it is high time people realise that it is only our differences in culture/religion and languages that has made this world such a beautiful place to live in..having only one religion for everybody will only lead to the world becoming a very boring and eventually fundamentalist place due to restrictions on essential human activities like art,music,sport,food habits,real education,technology etc..,..all replaced by the focus on the right way to worship..do you really think that god is such an egomaniacal entity,that only certain prescribed methods of worship is acceptable ,and not worship by saying thanks and striving to lead good lives instead,by following whichever religion a person chooses to..

I put this link for you and I hope you will go through it honestly and tell me what do you think about it

http://www.ediscoverislam.com/About-Islam/The-religion-of-Islam/islam-the-modern-alternative

But if you do not feel so then please do not waste your time on it.

Those who are intersted can go through it.

Qatarexplorer if you see no logic in that, then I'm afraid you haven't looked very closely at the worlds laws and history. For example, it used to be law for men to carry a sword. Now that's changed and its illegal for men to carry a sword as carrying weapons around is considered dangerous.

It used to be illegal for women to vote, own land or even work. That's changed in many countries.

Societies change and I believe that as social mores and values change laws should be addressed.

As for civil war, theres more civil war caused by arguing over a passage in the Quran then by changing a law in the West.

What is Al Raha?

from qatarilady.

Blablabla - True... But look at the broader picture...

every religion has One God policy.. not Jus Islam....

I say it is same God with Different names... cause All religions say it is Ultimate..

there cannot be multiple ultimates.... there has to be ONE only.....

Thts logic I see...

Idol worship is one of the way of worshiping in Hinduism... And its beautiful.....

forgetting the self.... chant the name of God... Sing his name... and image is what you focus on

B T W.... pictures Music dance etc is suppose to be Divine in Hinduism.. tht is yet another difference may be...

And if pictures of living being are not religious.... (this was a news to my ears)

Why is it that every Shop, office and few cars have Emir and his Son's Pictures ????????

Is that K then ???

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Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

with qatarilady.

as somebody rightly said'religion is the opium of the masses'..which is evident here on this thread..In the end all religions are man made..Just different ways of revering a higher power..thats at the basis of every religious belief..now whether one feels like revering that higher power by adhering strictly to a set of do's and dont's(like in islam)..or by observing rituals and pooja's like in hinduism/buddhism etc..why should it matter..to beleive that your entry into paradise/heaven is only by following a certain religion is going over the top..cos in the end its your deeds in this life that should actually matter(if god is actually shortlisting)..forget bout the afterlife..what matters is that we dont hurt ourselves by fighting/killing over what is the right way..unfortunately lots of ppl follow without questioning their religions..thats the actual problem..

Astrology has been around for a long, long time too.

There are more and more people (many of them foreign and educated) joining Al Raha, too -- is that "proof" that Al Raha isn't man-made?

Honestly man...who taught you logic?

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

The pillars which muslim through stones on them while doing Haj are the place where Satan appeared infront of the prophet Ibrahim and Ibrahim threw stones on him at the first time and then Satan moved to another place and third place then Satan disappeared after the third time. So we do what Our prophet Ibrahim did.

One of the proofs that religions are not man made is that Christianity has stayed for long time high and probably still and Islam started before more than 1400 years and remained high and now true Islam is spreading everywhere.

Another proof is that many foreign educated people such as philosopher and scientists are entering Islam every day, some are American, German, Cheq republic, Canada, ...etc.

ashwin, when you agree that all hindus worship that one god irrespective of which idol they focus on, dont you think then that islam just encourages to worship that one god without associating idols. This is the god all faithful invoke when in disaster. So, why do they need idols? In that way islam is anyones religion who invokes that one god. I think that is more logical and plain.

I worship HH the "Invisible pink unicorn".

She is the greatest prophet of all and the "flying shaghetti monster" is the false prophet.

if the society will decide what is best for itself, and it is constantly changing as you said then there will be no constant rules to follow, a kiosk, any group of society may impose what is best for them since they are part of the society. and the other party of society will disagree, in result civil war. according to you the wrong is constantly changing and the right also changing so sometimes wrong is wrong but time will come it will become right. the right will became wrong.

what is that? i find no logic in all of this.

well this is how you think...you have the right....

"I agree that religion is constantly evolving and changing, for example early Islam did not ban sculptures and paintings, actually there were quite a few of them inside some of the early mosques but this trend started to change after the Islamic culture got infused with the early Jewish converts to Islam, which at the time believed that sculptures and paintings were sacrilegious, so religion isn't constant it gets;"

hey man where did you get this idea? huh! are you serious with this? oh really, you dont know what you are talking my friend. did you know that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)with his army enter Makkah and broke all the sculptures and paintings of different tribes of arabia? please before you post make sure you are well inform about the subject. i never ever read in an Islamic books or Qur'an or Sunnah of the prophet (pbuh) that he allowed any paintings to be displayed inside the mosque. infact i will tell you, once there was a picture in the curtain hanged by one of his wives he ordered it to be removed.

the strongest point i will tell you in Islamic teaching the angel never comes inside if there is any picture of any living creatures displayed inside your house, what about mosque?

Its Fun discussing with you - :)

And post is 20% reply to your post and 80% what other things tht I would like to share...

there is so much to share and this F*ing pink back ground gets over so soon :)

Versi - About the right and wrong thing...

I really think and believe these are relative terms and cannot be fixed....

Truth .. correct... all these things are dependent on very many factors...

For example - A hungry man would seek for Food.. and thirsty for Water....

I cannot say thirsty is wrong in seeking anything other than food.... it is correct for him....

I don know if God says eat meat or not...

But I would like to share wht I read of Khalil Gibral -

When you Kill a animal for food... do it with a feeling that "I am consuming you to survive... you shall live in me .... I m living to be consumed one day by the superior power "

Don remember the exact words... and its too late to research now.. but this was wht was mentioned...

It can also be interpreted as Consume a animal if it is about Survival.... if vegetation is available... Don think God would say buddy have a Chicken.... let the carrots be for rabbits only....

This was an example to show... it is all about relativity....

About our judgment too is dependent on very many assumptions ....

(I had shared this with QL once... but anyways repeating wont kill anyone :) )

To say I did not reach for a meeting on time... it ll be on assumption tht your watch is showing the right time...

For every judgment there are many assumptions....

Troll - Hope didn make you read much....:)

I really admire the way you love and believe in your religion.... Is it possible for anyone to shake it with something as lame as Logic ????

Jus remember everyone who is truely religious or more importantly is spiritual..... feels the same way about his believes... if you don't shake... how can he.... :)

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Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

If you read Ashwins post, you can clearly see that i was JUST answering to his question . I NEVER tell any one to accept that nor i impose to anyone.

I don't know why are you much bothered about MY avatar.Did i forget to tell you that its non of YOUR business? :)

What if i say that YOUR avatar is just mocking the whole mankind (As you state before that skull is a symbol of human kind)?

And mocking Vatican? I never knew that Vatican is so sensitive. :)

Or If it is the case that you some how want to push me down and earn an extra point of credit, i'm happy to fell for it if it makes you happy. :)

Troll, I see that you started digging everything from the surah when ever you're out of defense. Pity still that no body would believe in what you post, nor would anybody would subscribe to it. In short you always think what you have is ultimate true and sound like you going to impose whats yours into others. Of course we do respect in full your religion as much as we would like to keep ours but the thing is that we will never be the same. Your prophet is muhammad and ours is jesus. Your avatar is already mocking the Vatican

read this thread :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I agree that religion is constantly evolving and changing, for example early Islam did not ban sculptures and paintings, actually there were quite a few of them inside some of the early mosques but this trend started to change after the Islamic culture got infused with the early Jewish converts to Islam, which at the time believed that sculptures and paintings were sacrilegious, so religion isn't constant it gets; shall I say customized to the cultures of the people who embrace it, not to mention the pagan influence on the early Christian culture and how Christ's Birth date was altered to accommodate existing pagan festivals so that it becomes easier to attract more converts to the (at the time)new religion.

Guys pleas dont talk about religions.

thank you

There's is a different religion. The reason they do not want to be listed as Baha'i on passports is because they are persecuted in the Arab world. BTW, in teh West we don't list religions on passports. Religion is a personal matter, not controlled by the State/Government.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

If you see that as praising their religion. It is that you don't comprehend what you read or that you purposely twist things in your arrogance to make it seem like you have "won a point". Anyway, let me translate for you:

"I still see a lot to admire about their religion."

This is true. I see admirable things in many religions; doesn't mean I would follow them, but it means I have an open mind to be able to acknowledge when something is good -- even if it doesn't come from Islam. And I can better understand people when I understand how their religion motivates their actions. BTW, I also admire what the ancient Greeks did in developing democracy; but I'm not praising paganism.

"Apparently there are a number of fake Bahai websites that have been set up by people of a certain religious faith who have attempted to harm their reputation."

This is simply a statement of fact; no more, no less.

I suspect one of your biggest problems is that you have a hard time coping with the world outside your own Arab-Muslims, and specifically Khaleeji context. But a look at the bigger picture would tell you that the overwhelming majority of the earth's population is not Arab or khaleej, nor are the Muslim. We really do need to learn to get along, don't you think?

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Thanks for the reply. Avoid posting such big post which contains 20% on the topic and 80% off topic with you physics or whatever.Damm you sales guys. :)

And ye, I'm not aware of 'your' religion seeking someone in search of experience beyond the scope of logic n common sense.

"There is no God but allah....

true.. but where does it say people who worship him in diff name are wrong ?????"

Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat (maintaining the unity of Allah’s name and attributes), it is divided in to five aspects.

1. Allah should be referred to as described by Him and His Prophet: Allah should be referred as his prophets or himself described him without explaining His names and attributes by giving them meanings other than their obvious meanings.

2.Allah must be referred to as He has referred to Himself

3. Allah is referred to without giving Him the attributes of His creation: “There is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One That hears and sees (all things).” [Al-Qur'an 42:11]

4. God’s creation should not be given any of His attributes:To refer to a human with the attribute of God is also against the principle of Tawheed. For example, referring to a person as one who has no beginning or end (eternal).

5. Allah’s name cannot be given to His creatures:

“Say: Call upon Allah, or Call upon Rahman: By whatever name you call Upon Him, (it is well): For to Him belong The Most Beautiful Names.” [Al-Qur’an 17:110]

Not individuals, society. Society should decide whats best for itself based on societies values, which are constantly changing. Therefore what is right and what is wrong is constantly changing and evolving, just like societies.

Pitstop - ??? Nice to see you ... thought you wont like to share your 2 Yens here... :)

Don take this seriously for F sake...

this is de only entertainment in Qatar... :)

UmmJake - True.. All religion are used rather misused for political goals... none is exception to it...

And its the most lethal combination - faith emotions for the sake of power.....

I quoted Islam in here jus to question Ql as she claimed everything is explained in scriptures in a way tht can be understood by a common man....

but it cannot be...

Troll - As i told you before I am not the correct Guy to tell you about Hinduism...

It is very much like - tht I m a poet of Language you don know... say Marathi...

To share and describe the beauty I see.... first you should know the language.....

Introducing the basics of the lang is diff for a poet...

But I ll again give it a try... loose nothing in doin so... :)

There are many Gods in Hinduism...

Shri Krishna, Ganapati (My fav :) ), Vishnu etc....

All these are known to be re-incarnations of the God....

Hierarchy wise.... there is one Ultimate God...

Who then took form of three major - The creator, the sustainer and the destroyer...

And the Gods known are re-incarnations of these in different time zones ...

These Gods are Specific... as per the Human desires....

Ganesha or Ganpati is known to be God of Wisdom, Agni Dev for fire, Maa Annapurna for Food, Maa Laxmi for Money which is Dynamic, Kuber for Wealth tht is stagnant...

Technically you are praying one God... but when you imagine or rather pray tht particular God... your energies and focused on wht you are praying for or you pray one which you like....

Variety is accepted and appreciated in Hinduism...

You need a physical image to imagine....

even when we imagine... nothingness... it is like - all tht I know this does not exist....

there are Hindus who follow religion as followed by Musims... there are Idol worshipers...

there are people doin R n D on a particular script..

All are Hindus...

No body outcasts the other one....

Yes we do fight amongst each other often... :) we do have our share of nuts... :)

I am not a Idol worshiper.. I am more of a seeker... someone in search of experience beyond the scope of logic n common sense...

n m still a Hindu... I have a right to research and seek wht I m searching for....

I m addicted to how functioning of brain affects our thought process and limits us from living with our ful potential.... but thts me...

One Major Difference between Islam and Hinduism... or the way I follow is....

In Islam... there is only ONE GOD...

For me... Everything came from God.. there is God in everything....

Everyone of US... I see God in all... It wont be digestible to most of you here... but tht is wht I follow n know...

May b tht is why... I never try to convert people to wht I believe But try help them practice theres' in a better way..

Help Muslim be a Better Muslim

Help Christian being a Better Christian...

Help a Hindu be a Better Hindu (this is field of expertise :) )

For me tht is true religion.. true spiritualism.....

true message from the God...... To LOVE him....

He can never say..Kill others.. or destroy others...

if you think so... you mis-heard him big time.

There is no God but allah....

true.. but where does it say people who worship him in diff name are wrong ????? may be the preachers made it sound tht way...

forget God... Me as a Person

Back home... frens called me Doke...Doks DOku....

Here.. people are not familiar with it.. prefer calling me Ash or Ashwin... Ash Baby (I hate it but K.. came with love so accepted... :) )

relatives call Vicky...

Chick calls me Dear....honey whtever...

Do I become the diff Person ??? I m still the same....

God is supreme.... you think he is bothered about the NOUN used ??????

Pajju - Sorry for another essay. :)

I let you buy me a drink.... lol

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

Some people stays on they grey side.Either you be on the Black side or the white. Yes Or NO. Believe it or not. Khallas.. People accepts few things from so called that 'book' and reject which they don't feel it as comfortable according to their own life style. Strange!

You are all over the place...

That is not a good way to have a discussion

Lets us focus on any one aspect...

Let me come back to the 'blindly following a book' aspect

the term 'blindly' really confuses me

You either follow a book

or you don't follow a book... period

Next your statement,"i do not believe that ANY faith that tells its followers that they will be considered above others"... this to me is the root cause of the problem

That is YOUR belief... and it is contradictory

I think even you believe there is only one GOD

Now either the God is a lady, an animal or a male

It cannot be all of these things...

I think that is pretty logical

God would tell you either to eat meat, or not to eat it... He either allows you to drink alcohol or not drink it...

Can't be one way for some and the other way for others

Its either wrong or right, can't be right for some and wrong for others...

This is where you(Winn) are adrift from Muslims... all Muslims believe what Islam tells is right or wrong and live their lives accordingly

You are insisting that individuals should decide what suits them or does not... ie. you are equating one's conscience to religion... I don't say that we should not believe our conscience... but we cannot equate one's conscience with religion... because a person's conscience may vary with age, time and circumstances...

However, the truth cannot vary, there is only one truth and it is constant... that is what Islam gives Muslims... and it is a relatively simple concept...

The moment you say there is only one truth, then by default others become false... this is logic... its not arrogance... cos if one were to think that this is not absolute, that is akin to doubting one's own faith...

Can you please quote a sentence from me, which i say that my religion is better than others or a word i mocked other religion? or a phrase i imposed my religion to others? If no, Your comments are invaluable.

Ye i know you are bought up in Japan and have traveled many place. :)

Nice to hear that you are teaching some one good. Same isn't applicable here? If some one have doubt about our religion, we are obliged to explain that. Whats wrong in that?

Wasallam..

Who am I to say my religion is better than anyone else's? Yes, ilhamdillah, I was born a Muslim, but I cannot impose my beliefs on anyone else. If I become a scholar of knowledge or a mufteeya, then so be it, but I'm not. People should fix themselves before fixing others, and ilhamdillah we have enough to deal with.

I've traveled around the world and met a lot of people from all religions, I know a lot about their religion and I respect them, too. Allah asked us to respect each other, so why don't we?

I know a guy who is an Ismaili, but ever since coming to Doha he has doubted it. I never asked him why he was an Ismaili, but I asked him what Ismailism is all about. Then he started to realize that it wasn't correct for him, so he is, on his own, studying Islam and all I am doing is guiding him as to where he should go for questions to be answered and who he should ask.

I'm ashamed by all this non-sense above. With all do respect of course.

Sallam ..

Thats not the answer for my question. Whats with Imams and those statues used for focusing? what comparison is that? I'm talking about earth and you are about Pluto. At least you could have give an example of Mars. :)

PITSTOP: If our prophets would have mind their 'own business', now U will have to make the moon split and the stick as a snake to convince them. Shukhar Allah that you are born Muslim cos of their effort. Ramadan Kareem to you too! :)

sigh!

Why don't people just mind their own business? Muslims remain Muslim, Christians remain Christians, Jews remain Jewish, .. and the rest follow! ONLY when someone is interested in learning about other religions, then the other person is given the right to explain, clarify and talk in detail ...

Allah ilMusta3an and Ramadan Kareem!

something that helps them focus their mind and prayers, much like a misbah'hah or picture of Jesus does for others?

I might look to you as if they're worshipping the statue but I don't think that's an accurate conclusion to draw necessarily.

And as far as middle men go, one can find something that looks like that in many religions, I think. I know loads of Muslims who follow certain specific clerics or imams. Does that mean he is a middle man for them? I have one Muslima friend who tells me that her husband, as the head of the family, is repsonsible for making sure the family leads a proper, moral life, and that in the end he has the final word. Does that mean that he's a middle man, positioned between her and God?

Probably not, but to the outside world it can seem as such.

Ashwindoke: People hijack all the different religions for their own purposes. It might seem to happen more in the Islamic world, but it is present among Christian groups and Jewish groups among others.

I think what the rest of the world would like to see is for MORE of the TRUE believers to speak out against those hijackers when that happens.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

These guys going round and round that black kaaba looks magnificient. By the way whats inside it so much to idolise by millions muslims out the world

...it all depends on what you believe in. It's like a lot of deafs trying to talk to a lot of blinds. You ( We ) can go on and on but nothing worthwhile will be achieved unless atleast one party comes out of their shell and listens to others with a open heart. A bitter discussion on QL is not what will build a common ground and promote religious tolerance. I recommend a open debate organized for the purpose. I will help with the arrangements but only if you guys promise to be scholars of religion rather than experts in the verbal assault game. :)

For now,you appear to me like these cuties:

Source:

- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)

Winn and Gypsy. When the day comes when everyone is resurrected and you stand in rows waiting to be judged, remember that the people that believed told you it was real. On that day you will wish you were dust. Remember when it comes you'll regret all that you had said. I'm not insulting you nor am I trying to provoke you. I just want you to remember on that day what you said here on the forum about Islam. You'll regret it I assure you of that.

ashwindoke..

Misinterpretation isn't the rule.. It's the exception..Call them outlaws.

Why Hindus need the help of a middle men (those objects / cult image) to worship their GOD ? Why cant they do directly? And if it is not their GOD, then who is their GOD? For eg, some hindus worship the statue of Krishnan / Ganapathy. They pray calling that statue as krishnan which means its their GOD. correct me if i'm wrong?

QatariLady - Thanks...

BUt then why is it wrongly misinterpreted for wrong deeds...

and people doing so... spreading the evil... say they are doing it in the name of God ?????

Which has always been a difficult thing for me to digest...

personally I don know Bahai's... so shall not comment on them... but if they are believing in something... then it is their truth.. I am no one to Judge...

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

I am fasting, and hence don't lie, yet don't know whether I am headed for the Hell or the Heaven! Why point others to these obscure entities? Choose what is best for you as you do in all your needs. Isn't it something logical?

Winn..

Before reading the information that was voluntarily presented on this thread I thought that Baha'ism was 20% corrupted. Now I see it 100% corrupted with all the fake prophets. Yes, sleeping with brothers turned out to be a minor detail in a corrupt system.

As for blindly following a book, I assure we don't follow it blindly. Allah loves and honors ppl so much He wouldn't expect or encourage them to follow like sheep. Read the Quran and see the amount of justification and explanation in it, voluntarily provided by Allah Himself even though He doesn't have to justify anything.

However many things were not explained in the Quran nor by the prophet so ppl themselves would over time see the wisdom behind them for themselves. As Allah says:

" We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth." (41,53)

Hindus Worship God.. through those Images.... Not THE image...

Image is treated with lot of respect .....

And as Winn says...

It is decentralized....

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

Kaaba is the Qibla i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. They do not worship the Kaaba. Muslims worship and bow to none but Allah.

Islam believes in fostering unity and Kaaba is at the Center of the World Map.

For instance, If Muslims wants to offer prayer, its just the thing that everyone unites and pray in the same direction. Not like one on the north side other on east etc.

'Not a troll': Where did I say Muslims 'worship' these images.

They (hindus) do worshipping in front of an object, a symbol, or it is directed towards an object just like a Muslim's paryer is by facing towards Kaaba. But they dont worship the object itself . If they did they wouldnt be throwing it away in sea as done in some festivals.

Again, the thing with Hinduism is, even if you do worship an object, nobody is gonna call you a heretic. Whatever works for you to focus ur intent during a prayer, seems to be the general feeling. Thats why some people say its not really a religion, but a way of life. coz it doesnt share quite a few things that organised religions generally have, such as,

1. A single prophet

2. a centralised orgn/structure

3. saying that you have to follow a particular faith or a particular God or els....

4. saying that you are superior coz of ur faith. It says ur karma(Actions) alone is the determining factor.

(There are quite a few convincing arguments against this too)

There is a characteristic laxity in determining wht goes and what doesnt, which actually makes it more of a loosely bound set of traditions and beliefs which vary quiet a lot from sect to sect and place to place.

i think, you should start having alchohol again, or stop taking alchohol too much.

that may recover you from yourself.

lol

do you fast, by the way?

lol

is congregational worship service in a private house considered public?

The authorities you mentioned is of course biassed to Islam teachings. Will they even thought of listening?

If I tell you that the only difference between yours and mine is the prophet itself (we also believe in One God and almost a lot of similarity between us), are we now free to practice our congregational worship service?

You mentioned the "trinity", then why did Qatar allowed the Catholics to have their church here? Was it more of a political consideration? The truth is, you hate religious persecution but you practice it yourself!

"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"

As i mentioned above, Muslims don't 'worship' those images of Mecca / Madhina. They just 'respect' it cos they do hajj/umra from there.

In case of hinduism, they 'worship' cult image / an object right?

I see your point, 'not a troll'. But Muslims who keep such images (of mecca/names of God) treat them with utmost respect, eventhough, if you take Khalid's view, it is only a frame and a paper with ink on it. So why should anyone treat it with respect? Coz it symbolises a person's faith, right? Same about the guy who worships a wooden/stone image. It symbolises his faith.

Also the point I was raising was about bowing down in the direction of a particular monument, to pray to a force who is supposed to be omnipresent and omnipotent. Donno how you see it, but for me, that too is idolatry. Lets say centralised idolatry as compared to the decentralised idolatry of christians and Hindus.

troll - true... tht is exactly wht I meant...

if it ain't needed... why is it that I see it with everybody...... I mean at most of the places... residence... public places.... etc etc etc..... Why ???

for wht ???

Think of the answer to this one.. and same ll be applicable for why Idol worship is practiced in Hinduism... in spite of a known fact tht God is considered to be as Omnipresent.... and shear power...

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

.....u get all upset at wynn and u keep defending QL time and again for abusing and maligning everyone's faith.....and so are you implying that you agree with what QL is saying.....or can u just not see what is obvious to the rest of us.

"Even in Islam.. same is expected... but to pray....

you need photo of Mecca n Madina.....

Definitely... you are not praying a building..."

Definitely we are not praying a building and we DON'T want the photo of Mecca and Madhina to do prayers.

"it is symbolic... through the image of Mecca or the words written as "Allah".. definitely the text is not what is holy.... but through it.. you pray the God......

"

Same comment applicable for this as well.

lol Ashwin another one ? :)

Not a troll - :) Sorry dude I try my level best not to...

But the pseudo-religious people.. compel me to.... :(

Khalid - I would have loved to answer you.... but problem is..... tht I ll be able to tell a Hindu tht the religion is more beautiful and mystic than they presume it is.....

Whtever I would like to share they know the basics and foundation....

m don think I am good enough to tell someone who knows nothing about it...

But in Brief -

1. It is not abour praying the idols as God. it is praying God through these idols.....

Yes God is shapeless and without any limits...

but it is impossible for human mind to think of nothingness.....

Even in Islam.. same is expected... but to pray....

you need photo of Mecca n Madina.....

Definitely... you are not praying a building...

it is symbolic... through the image of Mecca or the words written as "Allah".. definitely the text is not what is holy.... but through it.. you pray the God......

Religion is man made - Winn answered it in a nice way....

religion for me.. is when one man... the Prophet... realized the existence of God.... he shared his divine, pious, and joyous experience with others.....

he had to use words.... guidelines... etc

these became religion.....

If you could look at it without being offended.. as it is not intended to....

You know about God Allah... the way Prophet Mohammed described it.....

his description of his experience became the religion....

Same is true for all religions.....

Khalid you really think there was a paper or ink before there where weapons to kill preys... and civilization to live together .....

And important thing is.... religion being man made doesn make it any less important........ or less pious....

someone realized the love of God.....

religion is a tool for us to try to enjoy tht nectar self....

QL... your response is highly awaited.

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

Gypsy: thats why I put 'proof' in quotes. :-p

Holy books that were actually WRITTEN by men.

The intent of putting flowers on a wood/stone God is similiar to your intent of throwing stones at a pillar. Its symbolic. You dont really believe you are hurting Satan when you are throwing those stones, do you?

Tell me Khalid,which direction do you face when you bow down to pray? and why?

Also what proof do u hav to say that religions are not man made?

The proof for them being man made is history of mankind. 'Proof ' of them being made by God is holy books. You subscribe to one. fine. There are others who dont.

Stop hijacking the thread with your physics! :)

Ashwindoke can you describe your God in ten sentences?

Aswhindoke what do you think about some people who take some peice of wood and make out of it a statue and say this is their God?

Also what proofs do you have to say that religions are man made?

Versi - attacking Winn on what he wrote wont be very correct..

He is counter attacking statements of QatariLady..... so he might sound more rude than he intents to be....

Had you been equally angry on QL and Winn .. I would have had appreciated tht....

But only on one of them.. maffi good....

and if I could put the Winns statement in a better way...

true... tht truths do not change with time....

Gravity what is today shall be gravity with same formula till eternity........ it is not a fashion to change with time...

But to believe cause it is mentioned in a Book.. and seeking for truth and questioning faith .. not to abolish but to grow stronger in it.. Is not wrong....

don believe in gravity cause I say it exist.....

go through books.. read Newton... understand the formula... you ll appreciate it better than others who say.. Gravity exist cause Newton says so....

Some need more than a apple falling on head to believe in it....

I use Gravity as a example to imply all the truths mentioned in any religious book.....

even in Hinduism.. the Vedas are suppose to be eternal.. without a beginning and no Human Authorship....

But people like me.... questioned.. how could a book be written.... when there was a time when wheel was suppose to be the biggest Invention and fire was a Eureka invention.....

I could see... rather read tht there are great souls who have researched on this and answers are available for my questions......

The truths existed always..... he chose the example of Gravity....

Gravity existed even before apple fell on Newton..

and shall exist even if we today forget the formula to prove it.....

Tht is wht is Vedas... the truth......

It was not a invention of Human...

When it was documented .... it became a Book termed Vedas.. upanishads...

I presume.. same mus be applicable for Quran...

I don say believe in wht I do.... research. think and see... if I am right or not...

else seek more... reach the truth....

And Ql... When you say Hinduism is a Philosophy...

Yap... it is a religion.. in which .... the encrypted scriptures are simplified by the masters and the saints into languages and live examples a human mind can understand... this can be termed as Philosophy...

Philosophy is making somebody understand the already existed concept... it is not something new....

decoding the scriptures is Philosophy..

I know versi ll post dictionary meaning on Philosophy here.. but screw you..... :)

and if you see.. it is required.... to make people understand the true essence....

Else anything tht is happening which is labelled as wrong by society is termed as Quran misinterpreted...

and anything tht is accepted as Nice is true meaning of Quran.....

people call themselves terrorists and kill in the name of God is religion not understood..... why should this happen in first place.....

All I wanna say is Islam is suppose to be religion of Love....

Allah is All merciful...

where is love for people who do not follow the same religion...

Why you think Allah wont be merciful who praise him by some other name.....

And to be honest..... the people.. who try to impose the religion on others.... thinking it is a noble cause....

trust me.. being at the receiving end.... It makes it more difficult to like Islam.....

I like Islam.. I want to like and respect as much I do my religion...

but the arrogant and idiotic approach .. often damages the image of a nice religion.... this damge should be confined to the image of the person I know.... but makes it really diff....

So all those who want others to follow your religion... tell them when they ask for it...

over aggressiveness is not helping....

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

you think I am coming from the point of view that all religions are man-made? I don't see how that is evident or even relevant to the last point I made about how I see nothing wrong with commenting on a nice feature or point in another religion that is different from one's own.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

WHY ALL THE RELIGIONS ARE BOTHERED ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS PEOPLE WILL GO TO HELL , DONT WORRY LET ALL OTHERS GO TO HELL YOU CAN HAVE MORE SPACIOUS APARTMENTS IN HEAVEN AT CHEEP PRICES

REGARDING RELIGION I HAVE THIS QUESTION

THERE WAS HINDUISM AND JUDAISM MAY BE 3000 BC OLD , AFTER 1000 T0 2000 YRS CAME BAHAIS AND BUDDISM , AND THEN CAME CHRISTIIANITY AND THEN AFTER 1000 YRS CAME ISLAM

ALL THESE RELIGIONS TOLD THEY ARE THE BEST AND THEY ARE TRUE AND THEY ARE THE LAST

BUT AGAIN CAME NEW ONES , THIS ALWAYS HAPENS IN EVERY 1000 YEARS TO 2000 YEARS OF HISTROY

ALL MOST ALL THE RELIGION SPREAD THROUGH WARS AND POWER AND THROUGH PREACHINGS BY CLERGY

NONE SURVIVED WITH OUT THE SUPPORT OF POWER, KIGS OR GOVERNMENTS

WHO KNOWS TOMOROW A NEW RELIGION WILL NOT COME AND THEY ALSO WILL SAY THEY ARE TRUE AND THE LAST ONES

PLEASE BE GOOD DONT BE OVER RELIGIOUS , LOVE AND RESCEPT EVRY ONE TTRY TO HELP EVERY ONE , RESCPECT EVERY ONE

Verisimilitude: I did not mean one shudnt follow a book.What I meant is that one who buys a book written centuries back lock, stock n barrell and believing in one's superiority in faith jus coz it is stated in the book and not coz of one's own reasoning, is not really in a good position to accuse others of herd mentality/being sheep lost or otherwise. Something like pot calling the kettle black?

and btw, i donot believe that ANY faith that tells its followers that they will be considered above others(in hereafter, in the eyes of maker, whatever) on the basis of their faith, can stand for tolerance. By that simple statement it denigrates and alienates people of all other faiths and puts them down a notch. The way I see it, its just a terribly obvious marketing gimmick worsened only by blind belief of its adherents.

Its wonderful that you are reading the Quran

But you should know that Allah sent the Quran AND a prophet for our guidance

In order to bring in to our lives the good virtues of the prophet, we need to learn and follow the 'hadiths'.

Hadiths are records of the Prophets PBUH sayings, doings and that which he agreed to...

When I questioned your friend's statement, I did not mean that one should not follow the Quran...

I meant that the judgment of which Muslim goes to Heaven and which goes to Hell is in Allah's hands...

Malpaso, being stupid is not a crime! If you leave alone a stupid person and don't try to cure him of his stupidity you are a selfish person.

I second versi for the last two post!

Verisi, I have not yet finished reading the Qu'ran. And Those are not my thoughts. I just wrote what one of my muslim friend told me while trying to explain the virtues of Qu'ran.

a stupid guy.

leave him apart.

:)

Where does it say that not following the Quran to the word means you end up in hell?

And can you define what your friend means by following the Quran to the word?

If you don't know that... then don't make statements like... "He justified it saying that 90% of the muslims don't follow Qu'ran to the word. So QatariLady should agree that most muslims are also headed for hell!"

Where in the Quran does it say for instance that a Muslim should pray five times a day? It has reference to only three prayers... If I were to pray three times and then insist that I am following the Quran to the word... does that make sense?

Both of you are coming from the point that all religions are man made...

And Winn... you are as arrogant as you are charging QL of being... What is your following statement supposed to mean?

"People who blindly follow a book written centuries back, blindly believing in their theological/ideological superiority or those who seek and find their own truths?"

Are you implying that we should not follows a book written centuries back but rather that we should invent new books as we go along?

Are you implying that a believers of a faith should not believe that their theology or ideology is superior?... that is rubbish... a true believer clings to his faith because he believes it is the TRUE faith...

In the first part of that very statement you poo poohed people who believe in Islam and then in the second part of the statement you are preaching the virtues of tolerance... Get real...

Once a muslim friend told me "If you want to know islam, never look at the muslims, but read the Qu'ran"

He justified it saying that 90% of the muslims don't follow Qu'ran to the word. So QatariLady should agree that most muslims are also headed for hell!

They're not even unreal Muslims.

They're Baha'is.

If they were Muslims, they'd call themselves that.

And FYI, most countries in the world DON'T list religious affiliation on their citizens passports.

It's nobody's business anyway...

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

Khalid, the Bahai's are not lost. The majority of them follow their religion. But I think most of the muslims are lost. Most of them deviate from the scriptures because their religion is so difficult to follow. But they still believe they will be redeemed because they are people of the scripture.

If they are real Muslims then why do they deviate from what is written in the holy Quran?

Why do they refuse to be known as Bahais on their passport?

UmmJake, thats so true!

another religion or faith without being disloyal to your own?

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. I see many noble things about Islam, even though it is not my religion. I can find many good points in most of the world's religions...yet I still choose not to join them.

Why do you think should people remain silent and not say anything nice about another religion? It doesn't mean they think theirs sucks. They're simply acknowledging that there is something positive and redeeming about the tenets of another faith. And there is nothing wrong in that...

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

QL : You said, "ignore the big corrupted picture and argue over minor, insignificant details..

Good luck being a herd of lost sheep!"

If I wrongly say you slept with your brother, would you think that is a minor, insignificant detail?

Same way, if I said something wrong about ur prophet, would you overlook that ? I doubt it.

As for herd mentality, who are the sheep? People who blindly follow a book written centiuries back, blindly believing in their theological/ideological superiority or those who seek and find their own truths?

Last but not the least, if you are sheep, you are sheep. not being lost is not gonna make you any less of a sheep.

A man went to the hair burber to cut his hair and started talking.

The burber said there is no God, because if there is God then why do we see so many people suffer?

The coustomer stayed quite and when he went outside he saw one man with very very long hair and very long beard (horrible feature), the coustomer we inside back to the burber and said there is no burbers here in the city.

The burber siad how come? I am here.

The coustomer said because I saw there is one man outside with very very long hair and very long beard (horrible feature).

The burber said this man did not want to go the burber that is why he has this horrible feature.

The coustomer said also the same for the people they will suffer and be in horrible feature if they think they do not need God.

God had ordered Abraham to build the Kaaba in Mecca.

StoneCold Abraham actually visited Mecca and built the Kaaba.

I don't mind religion bashing in general, but to single out Islam for bashing is just hypocritical. someone actually said "I could quote christainty as that was where I was brought up by accident of birth but I am sure turn the other cheek and live and let live means nothing to you..."

why don't you quote the bible in saying

"Then Jehu called a meeting of all the people of the city and said to them, "Ahab hardly worshiped Baal at all compared to the way I will worship him! Summon all the prophets and worshipers of Baal, and call together all his priests. See to it that every one of them comes, for I am going to offer a great sacrifice to Baal. Any of Baal's worshipers who fail to come will be put to death." But Jehu's plan was to destroy all the worshipers of Baal. Then Jehu ordered, "Prepare a solemn assembly to worship Baal!" So they did. He sent messengers throughout all Israel summoning those who worshiped Baal. They all came and filled the temple of Baal from one end to the other. And Jehu instructed the keeper of the wardrobe, "Be sure that every worshiper of Baal wears one of these robes." So robes were given to them"

"Then Jehu went into the temple of Baal with Jehonadab son of Recab. Jehu said to the worshipers of Baal, "Make sure that only those who worship Baal are here. Don't let anyone in who worships the LORD!" So they were all inside the temple to offer sacrifices and burnt offerings. Now Jehu had surrounded the building with eighty of his men and had warned them, "If you let anyone escape, you will pay for it with your own life."

"As soon as Jehu had finished sacrificing the burnt offering, he commanded his guards and officers, "Go in and kill all of them. Don't let a single one escape!" So they killed them all with their swords, and the guards and officers dragged their bodies outside. Then Jehu's men went into the fortress of the temple of Baal. They dragged out the sacred pillar used in the worship of Baal and destroyed it. They broke down the sacred pillar of Baal and wrecked the temple of Baal, converting it into a public toilet. That is what it is used for to this day." 2 Kings 10:18-27 NLT"

Wow what tolerance..

The point is everyone could quote shiny loving passages from their holy books or could do the exact opposite, there is no high horse here.

[quote PM:] "I still see a lot to admire about their religion."

"Apparently there are a number of fake Bahai websites that have been set up by people of a certain religious faith who have attempted to harm their reputation."

I see this as praising what you, as a Muslim, are supposed to consider a made-up religion. At least you should remain silent and leave a Baha'i do this job!

And what you call arrogance, I call firm belief and pride in something I'm deeply convinced is authentic, complete and perfect!

exiledsaint..

Rest assured.. Islam is rallying up, not dying.

What would we do without their moral guidance? :-p

PM and Gypsy etc....stop wasting your time here....they are never going to understand why u r defending the others....i applaud u both....need more like u and less like the religious nutcases.....

maybe love and respect for others is alien to them.....it cannot be that religion has made them so.

people like u have been trying to guide them on what is morally correct for the last few months....and we have all been witness to this....but their inability to self-introspect and to think for themselves has made them and the similarly minded social outcasts if they were but in any part of the world apart from this region.

Love and respect my friends.....peace.....there is always time to change.

To all my muslim brothers out there leave the poor bhai's alone (and the other religions). They have done nothing to hurt you and spreading lies about them or others only degenerates your own religion not theirs......

I could quote christainty as that was where I was brought up by accident of birth but I am sure turn the other cheek and live and let live means nothing to you....

Thankfully I don't believe that to be true.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

can read the thread and see that it is a lie. I never even wrote anything about the Baha'i prophet. Haram -- lying during Ramadan... :-(

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

verm :-)

My statement was clear enough for everybody except you. When you are looking for a reason to attack will you find it.

Ramadan Kareem, verm :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

It seems that Islam is a dying religion the way people are defending it here.... its like the tower of babel...

written or you are making a joke regarding QL. She's been proven to be making false statements about both Baha'is and Hindus. Maybe you didn't get that....???

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

the name is verisimilitude... feel free to call me ver, veri, verisi or versi... enuff with the name calling... its Ramadhan

thanks for the clarification though...

in your usual style you make an open statement and then re-track your footsteps to a more conservative stance when asked to clarify...

You made it clear for all to see.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

but I also realize that other people feel the same way about theirs, so I don't feel the need to go about disrespecting other religions. To me, my religion and to you, yours.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

If you're referring to PM, she was simply explaining Baha'i beliefs for clarification -- since QL started us all down that road with her erroneous comment about them marrying their sisters and aunts!

Never once did she imply or directly state her praise of the Baha'i prophet, or equalize him with the prophets of her religion.

If you learn about both religions you will see many parallels, but as far as I have read on this thread, no professed Muslim has done what you accuse them of, QL.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

not a troll..

"I explain / preach to them what my religion is. And i NEVER force any one to accept it."

That's great. That's why I never hold a gun forcing ppl into Islam.

However when a Muslim comes out praising Bahauddin who equalises Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammed with Budha and Krishna, that's when I got all emotional!

QL asked me my opinion, I answered. Nobody asked QL's opinion. My point in doing so was to show that people get upset when you call their prophet a fake. QL doesn't seem to realize that.

QL called the Baha'i prophet a fake

and you said all prophets are fake...

so you are in the same boat as QL, gypsy...

I believe in many things, just not religions and not the God of your religions. And what did I say that was insulting zambo? are you saying its wrong for me to call your prophet a fake but alright for QL to call the Baha'i prophet a fake? Do you know the meaning of the word hypocrite.

Hmmm I am not a troll I have no clue who you might be. :S

"Oooppps... my skull. Everybody have a skull in their heads right. even god have one. Its a common symbol of humanity."

Ohh, GOD have a skull? And your GOD is a human? May i please know in which religion you believe?

btw, Can you please explain, how your skull (the symbol of humanity) is making you close to the GOD?

this thread has veered away completely from its original interesting topic to a personal attack on QL...

Same like Pot calling the kettle black? lol ;)

Oooppps... my skull. Everybody have a skull in their heads right. even god have one. Its a common symbol of humanity.

'i am not a troll' is calling someone else a troll :-p

Does YOUR avatar makes you so close to the GOD? :)

:) the thread was interesting so I registered to comment.

Troll should use picture of kaaba as avatar. At least it symbolise "closer towards god".

Member For:

13 hours 40 min

1 points

You are just born to comment on this thread. Great! :)

This thread is entertaining If it hadn't been for personal attacks, the problem with religious people is that they feel superior to other people because their religion is the true and only way to salvation and that the others are lost sheep that will suffer eternal damnation , and the problem with atheists is that they feel superior to religious people as they believe that they are ignorant bigots that believe in outlandish unbelievable man made religions because of their need to live in a a box with contained walls that they can see every side of, So maybe the problem of arrogant superiority is actually inclusive of all people no matter what their believe systems are!

People do need a refreshin course in manners it seems..

I'm reporting you to the Pope!

None of your business ! :)

So it is possible to see you put let's say a picture of the cross as your avatar ?

There you are ! You itself answered your question..

So you know there is nothing to do with the avatar/name other than his/her belief. And if you still have doubt, I don't know how to explain more.

There are muslims whose names are richard, daniel and patrick..so no it doesn't answer my question.

I guess for a truly muslim, we love our religion and we llke to see other are coming into it because we 100% sure we are in the right path. so it is always good attitude to defend the truth, depending it is not necessary disrespecting other against it.

troll for gypsy you may know her and I dont, but no one is attacking her personally.its just for forum sake :)

beside if you read all the post here you'll find it she is the one that gave offensive post.

There are Kaafir's / kuffar's who names 'Muhammed' / 'Akbar' or what ever..

Is that answer your question.

You're a muslim?

How come your avatar is the vatican flag ?

troll so whats their belief? no god, no prophets no angels, no anything that a religion has but...look at them they celebrate when so and so celebrate....like c'mas, eid, new year etc... they just believe on what they feel they are in or comfortable with and just say no if they are not....they hate sacrifices,trial and strugle, becos these are all the essence of religion.

they have minds but they use it only to decieved their own selves...use for denial.

Always ! :)

No, I'm a MUSLIM who believe in Allah subuhan tha'la..

I explain / preach to them what my religion is. And i NEVER force any one to accept it.

Our duty is just to pass the message to non believers, it is their wish to accept it if they are convinced.Isn't that Islam teaches?

And Gypsy's case, Since i know her personally, (Now she ll be wondering who am I :p )Its her belief, leave it like that and RESPECT it. Islam doesn't teach us to bash other religion.. Isn't it?

Not a troll..

Thanx for the advice.. I did :)

I hope you're not yet another atheist speaking for other so-called religions, like Gypsy here, who tries to stir religions up to prove they're all fake.

Now, don't you think you are disrespecting their 'baseless belief?'

gypsy you are misbehaving as always you are. you as atheist so proud of your baseless belief..i dont know either why you call it belief when you really dont have anything to believe in.

"Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion." (Quran 109:6)

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

ROLFING. So it's ok to say that just some prophets are fake eh zambo?

if there are words more disrespecful to me is to say that all prophets are fake. this i feel only arrogant boaster that deserves hell can say this.

At least stop this fight during the month of ramadan..

QL, Why dont you just go and pray Asar and recite Quran instead fighting from here? It would have weighed an extra point for you when GOD weights your Good vs Bad Deeds. :)

Wow. Your just...WOW. Arrogant isn't even a strong enough word.

Yeah, Gypsy. It's always good to add up to the pile of crap.. But it doesn't change its reality.

Because I've researched their beliefs and I know a couple of people who are Baha'i. I don't just repeat what people tell me without checking the truth of it.

lol...

Damn... 4 page of orgasmic fun... n I missed it... W T F...

UmmJake too is back... :)

Good....

Muslims think they are correct...

So do Hindus....

n so mus be Christians...

We all are like Frogs of a Pond...

Never seen a Ocean... shall never believe in it......

If I say everyone needs a God...

Noun it any thing....

we all are living... we all shall die...

and there is nothing to fear about death or after death......

its inevitable.. looking forward to it... :)

___________________________________________

Man created religion ..not GOD... get over it guys...- FS

And how do you know they don't smartie? :)

ROFLING. Yes, sorry I can't add such gems to the conversation like "Baha'is marry their sisters."

I know what you believe (or rather not believe), Gypsy..

That's why your comments are always redundant and useless..so you might better refrain from it.

I think all prophets are fake, so one can't be more real then the other. I don't believe in belittling other peoples beliefs though.

Gypsy..

LOL.. Good for Baha'is that an atheist is endorsing their alleged prophet!

How better could it be for me?!

She didn't present any facts zambo. And the last thing I am of QL is jealous.

Frankly I think her constant need to belittle others beliefs betrays her own insecurities in her belief.

Do we begin digging trenches or not yet?

Some people are actually interested in the debate itself apart of all the unnecessary personnal attacks.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

YOU think that Baha'i's follow a fake prophet. They don't. Show some respect for other peoples beliefs.

going through with all this thread I personally appreciate Qlady for her wit and wisdom .

any one against her are just jealous.they failed to disprove the fact she presented, so instead they attack her on some other grounds even that its nonsense.

Winn, PM, Gypsy..

The Hindus' elephant-headed God is not named Krishna, but Ganesh. Baha'ism might not practise incest but follow a fake prophet!

Well, so typical of you to ignore the big corrupted picture and argue over minor, insignificant details..

Good luck being a herd of lost sheep!

Well if we're going to stop religion bashing then we need to find something else to argue about cause I'm bored!

Its not me who wants to paint the world green. Not me, I swear.

Can we stop these religion bashing at least for this Holy month!!

nope....dont need to be specific....maybe u just did not understand....either u check out the link or u dont.....the choice is yours.

People have done that versi, and she responds with the same arrogance.

I've seen QL being very patient with people who have misconceptions on Islam...

So if she does indeed have any misconceptions then someone should take it upon themselves to clear them out rather than just sit back and pass a judgment on her...

I agree there are. QL just isn't one of them.

a statement like that is of no use... can you be more specific?

Absolutely...

Hence the statement...

"But what is in question is a Muslims attitude towards other religions

I agree people need to be more sensitive towards others faiths"

In case you haven't noticed... there are Muslims even on QL who make it a point to stand up against insult of religion in the name of art, freedom of expression etc... regardless of the religion, be it Islam, Hinduism, Christianity etc...

u think islam is perfect....try watching hayatv on youtube or on the internet at hayatv.tv.....it should put u out of ur comfort zone a bit and will stop you abusing other peoples faiths with such despicable arrogance....

i love my muslim friends but feel they should be educated on the variety and splendour of life that exists.

It's perfectly acceptable you think your religion is right. After all if you didn't think that you wouldn't have very strong faith. However there's nothing (that I know of) in the Quran that says you have to disrespect and insult other peoples beliefs just because they aren't your own.

I agree with what YOU said...

But it is what it is

Islam is the only religion for Muslims

And Muslims believe other religions are false...

Take it or leave it...

But what is in question is a Muslims attitude towards other religions

I agree people need to be more sensitive towards others faiths

However, I find PM's statement pretty open ended...

Had she said... "Mine is perfect and I am gonna insult your religion"... I would have agreed with her...

But when she sez "Mine is perfect and nothing else is"

I am forced to think... hey... wait a second... I believe Islam is the only infallible religion and this is what Islam teaches us to believe...

I am sorry if I am sounding intolerant... but bear in mind, I can believe your beliefs are wrong and still accommodate you... that is the Muslim's approach...

“...This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” (5:3)

Versim, it's fine to think your own religion is perfect, but you have to accept that others think the same way about theirs and being an arrogant idiot to them isn't acceptable.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

Isn't it like that?

So you believe Islam is perfect and so are other religions?

OK PM which ever way we go will ends up at ramada.

.

gypsy.

It's "Mine is perfect and nothing else is" :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Neither is religion propagation exercise an easy task. However it should be done in a professional way rather than making damaging remarks which adversely rots down your own. For most, its just hard to accept with open arms that "mine is more perfect than yours", and why should we.

Too bad, PM, her 'display' of knowledge about her own religion is in a way that doesnt do anything to create a good opinion about her faith among people of other faiths.

IMHO, if her intention was to portray Islam in a positive light, she has failed miserably and only because of her attitude towards other faiths.

It's not just her lack of knowledge about other religions that causes her to be arrogant and insulting though, she honestly believes that no one but Muslims deserve respect and politeness regarding their religion.

Clearly QL is a devoted Muslim and knows her own religion well. But she is also obviously quite ignorant of other religions, which she sometimes appears to have "studied" through sources that have an agenda to denigrate other religions. After repeated insulting "mistakes", it seems that it's a reasonable request to ask her to be more careful or perhaps even avoid posting about other religions altogether unless it is to honestly ask questions.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Tiger, the furthest that prophet Moses goes is Egypt and King Solomon in Babylon Iraq, Never heard that Abraham went to Mecca to build a kaaba.

"Ramadam Kareem to you"

QL: As a student and ardent admirer of Indian art, including frescoes and painting, I find your following statement extremely ignorant,offensive and in bad taste.

"Krishna (who for your information is a God with the head of an elephant and a tail of a monkey and God knows what other organs he found in the zoo!)"

Do tell me where you got that info from. and no, Hinduism wasnt founded by anyone let alone a zookeeper. if you had an ounce of anything that resembled a brain in ur head you would hav divined that there was nothing of the sort of a zoo in those times (coupla thousand years B.C) when hinduism was followed.

Same about your 'incest' comments on Bahais. You just pick up some rumour from somewhere and do a know-all, holier-than-thou sermon on people you donno zilch about. I know a few of them, and believe me, you are making urself look like such a bummer making these comments about em.

My suggestion is this:

You are more than welcome to spout your religion and feel all pious but kindly refrain from making patently ignorant remarks on other faiths.

If n when you do feel the 'urge' to pooh-pooh some one else's faith, please take at least half an hour to go through a wiki document (at the least) and gather some info on them. You are just gonna make urselves look like a fool if you dont.

Remember your outrage when you 'assumed' I had said something unjust about your prophet? People of other faiths (including atheism) also have as much right to righteous indignation as you when it comes to such insults. Go figure. ( Dont worry, I dont assume you wud b able to understand that. if you had the sensitivity to figure that out, you wouldnt hav made quite a few of the remarks you hav made about other belief systems.)

Ahhh so God is not selling it right, he needs a marketing department!

The Hell is the frying pan for frying some spoilt chicks in hot olive oil.

They become God's French Fries!

Just like McDonalds.

Alright I'm giving up on this now but I will ask one last question.

If you are God and you set up the perfect universe being the perfect being yourself why create Hell?

indeed they are

prophets were sent by god to warn the mankind about the danger that was coming for them if they dont accept the truth and that danger was "hellfire".

sins can be forgiven only if they worship out lord with dedication and lots of humility becoze we are his slave and its up to him who he forgives and who he doesn't.

correct me if i am wrong.

thanks

take it easy... the program cannot question the programmer... ;-)

You may say I can't question god but he gave me this mind to ask questions so he should not object if his children decide to ask quite logical questions.......

Why doesn't god be here on a regular basis and guide us? Why would he just leave us like young children to fend for ourselves. I don't see that as very caring.

Religion needs updating you say he did it three times and you say the last one was perfect. So if new updates are invalid then why didn't he get it right in the first place being so perfect?

Or are the only perfect beings people like yourself on QL.....

And Religion X Patch, and

Religion X07 ServicePack3 etc.

Verisi..

LOL @ Windows updates..

Imagine religion being upgraded yearly..

Latest version: Religion XP! LOL

Sorry... but I found your remarks funny...

Microsoft has done a good job brainwashing you...

You are so used to Windows updates...

that you think religion is the same way

needs to get updated every few years

some one said that all prophets were selected to be in Palestine or Israel then why Mohammed was in Mecca?

Ok to answer this question we ask our self why did Ibrahim PBUH selected Mecca to build Al Kabba?

Religion is a set of priciples that are aligned with human nature and natural laws that were the same thousands of years back and will be the same till the end of time.

Here lies the difference between the Divine religion whose message was dilevered through successive prophets and human imperfect philosophies.

Usury is harmful to economies now as much as it was thousands of years back. Alcohol alters the human brain now as much as it did before. Adultery destroys societies and families now as much it did before, etc.

Evolution is acceptable in the material life (buildings, cars, computers etc.) not in religion.

Exactly, my feelings, Exiled.... God may yet again change the scripture. Nothing is constant in the universe. This is evident from our everyday life too. What was correct 1400 years ago may not be correct now.

Maybe God changed his mind and decided to send another person as he decided that humanity had progressed and we were ready for it. I'm sorry I can't believe that God would send some words and not update them after 1300 years. He did it before at least twice according to most here so why not again....

It seems like man just defending his written words and his power if you ask me but then again what would I know.

Ummjake..

You're taking here about minor, secondary details.. I agree with you on this. In fact Muslim scholars consider these differences as mercy, because this means the religion is flexible and ppl of all backgrounds can adapt to it benefitting from those marginal differences.

My objection was on major issues related to the creed itself.

Clearly religious issues are NOT black and white. Or have you failed to notice how in pretty much every religion you can see a range of practices and interpretations from the people who call themselves members of that faith?

There are Muslim women who cover their hair and faces and those who don't. There are Muslims who won't brush their teeth when they fast because they're fearful of swallowing spit, and others who think that's a bit extreme.

I appreciate that you have some strong opinions about your religion, QatariLady. But try and understand that there are others who may disagree with you, and just because you think X and they think Y doesn't make them 'kafirs', freaks or infidels who will burn in hell.

There's a whole lot that Allah didn't say in the Quran, but as I understand things, Islam (and most religions) are meant to be flexible to adapt to the changing times and situations its followers face.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

I Think This Site Was Called Qatarliving ,,,,

"Those who are reluctant to climb mountains will live in the holes for ever"

Ummjake..

Religious issues are either in black or in white. The grey area doesn't exist. Either Allah said or Allah didn't. Either Allah sent a messenger or Allah didn't.

"Such then is Allah, your rightful Lord. After the Truth what is there saving error? How then are ye turned away!" (10,32)

Now thats a good start for true democracy aka freedom to choose

"If Islam is true, why are you so afraid to let others practice their own beliefs?"

it is not that they are afraid to let others practice their own belief. no not like that. besides everyone can practice his or her faith here. no one is forcing you to be a muslim.

the real thing is that, the other beliefs can be practice by anyone but not in public. the reason:

1. any public display or preaching of the false religion is forbidden and discourage. why would you allow your people to hear such a false and contradictory teaching. for what? you will let them choose even if it is not correct. it is like treating your son and daugthers and taking care of them, you dont like them to be affected by outside behaviour (cullture)and beliefs contrary to what you are advocating to them. so this is the sole responsibility of the king or country leader to take care of its people from that unsound system of beliefs.

2. there are goverment agencies that deals with the situation. if you are willing you can go there and defend your case, and must proved that your faith is right with evidence. if you cannot and surely you cannot then you have to keep it to yourself you dont have the rigth to preach it to others and let them choose it even it is false.

3. freedom to practice their own religion is a previlege of all, but not to preach it in public. to promote it even it is not correct is pusnishable by law. the motto of Islam: promote the good works and forvade the evil. this evil at all forms, maybe in the form of teaching false doctrine.

i will cite you one faith which is contradictory to Islam, 1john 5:7 for there are three that bears record in heaven the father the son and the holy ghost and this three are one. this is the main support ot the trinitarian doctrine. (but this is thrown out as a fabrication in the revised standard version of the bible) the teaching that God has a son eqaual to Him is a direct insult to God. because there is no one equal to Him.

in Islam the teaching is very clear. " dont say trinity it is better for you. because God is only one God."

so Islam never allow (Trinity)this kind of faith to be preached publicly. having know that God is one perfectly you have to defend it and do your utmost effort to keep the people to be safe from this kind of falsity.

if you choose to be a believer in trinity no one will hold you. but dont preach it in public. keep it to yourself as the Book of God said, ("dont say trinity it is better for you.") you will be able to know if this is better for you, (the trinity) on the day of judgement.

there are thousands of doctrine, dogma and written passages that are contradictory to Islamic monotheistic faith.

the law is Sharia so if you are doing anything that go against the law then you are liable to be arrested or penalize hence the prohibition of the public practice or preaching of other faiths. you can practice or preach your faith in a confine place designated for you by the goverment. if your faith has none then you have to do it diplomatically.

if you want details, the islamic center is offering information on all aspect of faith pertaining to Islam. you can debate there if you want, no police will arrest you.

Sorry for my typo. Am typing over a bottle.

Stone you mean Sermons, don't you?

Good surmons on the eve of ramadan. Can we have the sacrement next. Shalom

other than intelligent discussion, tolerance and respect for things that are different.

And what's with the "don't play with religion, you'll lose" comment? Honestly...who appointed YOU to be the sole policeman of your faith? If your postings and attitude on here are supposed to be at all representative of how Islam encourages Muslims to behave, then trust me, you're in NO position to lecture at PM (or anyone) to "know her religion first."

PM and some other QL posters have a helluva lot more knowledge and understanding about their religion than your haughty self seems to demonstrate. Your dismissive, antagonistic comments that belittle other people's beliefs are not only rude and inappropriate, but they paint a very unattractive portrait of your faith, a religion that I know to be worthy of better representation than what you give it here.

Like some others before you, your behavior and words cause those outside your religion to wonder "if THIS is what a Muslim thinks and sounds like, then maybe I should keep looking...".

Perhaps you should consider using the holy month of Ramadan to engage in some introspection about whether you're truly modeling your faith in a positive manner for others around you.

Think long and hard about that one...

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

In christianity, we never try to speak against some other religion. I have lived along side the bahais - some broken sect of christianity and into the branches of the family tree. Their approach may be different but glorifying the same god. Its like I am riding my horse forward, and he rides his, backward into the same destination.

mine, QL. I never said that Baha'i and Hinduism are "valid" religions in the eyes of Muslims. In fact, I would not be able to speak for all Muslims; just as you are not able to speak for me. I am not a follower or either, but it doesn't mean I can't recognize good in anyone else but Muslims.

Knowing my faith and religion does not require me to spread lies and "convenient mistakes" about other religions, QL. Apparently, you view such behavior as a GOOD thing and think you are being a good Muslim in doing so. I do not. But Allah will judge.

;-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM..

OK..I searched for the elephant-headed God and found it's called Ganesha.. But it does exist in Hinduism..

I'm surprised that you call yourself a Muslim who 'chose' Islam out of conviction, and still consider all other religions as real, valid religions that must be praised. And I'm not talking about Judaism and Christianity.

Again, PM. You really don't know what you believe in! Don't play with religion, you'll lose!

Know your religion first and you'll reject the idea that another prophet came with a SIMILAR religion.

If you think that I'm arrogant for saying this, then you don't know what faith is about.

As for how I enter the Holy Month, Thank God I'm entering with firm belief, not needing to look around to perfect where my religion is lacking. It simply is perfect and completed by God not by me!

one who continuously attempts to mislead people by spreading falsehoods about other religions from your "studies". I guess it was your careful study that lead you to say that Baha'is practice incest; and further careful research lead you to state that Hinduism was founded by a zookeeper.

Really, you are the one who needs to know her limits and stop talking about other religions. Maybe you know Islam, but you surely don't seem to know much more than that, and you certainly don't know anything about other religions.

To simply lie about other religions, doesn't make your lies true.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Ummjake and PM..

You're just lost and want to mislead other ppl unknowingly. If you stand on a solid ground with real things, come out and lay them out clearly so ppl can understand what you're 'promoting'.

To simply deny things isn't good argument.

Religion isn't open for invention or manipulation. Not you nor Baha'ullah have the right to add to religion what wasn't decreed by Allah Himself.

Know your limits and accept for once that some things are just beyond your control and wild imagination.

Thanks for reiterating what I know deep down.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

that the way they are representing their own faith is more off-putting than anything even Fox News could create.

They're undeserving of your attention and thoughtful comments, because they clearly have dug in their heels and wish to disparage other world religions in an attempt to feel better about their own.

And if that helps them sleep better at night, then let them knock themselves out.

Ramadan kareem everyone...

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

somebody here told salad? :)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

the immaturity is appalling!

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Verisi..

I think to her a religion is a plate of salad :)

else don't use them at all...

don't make statements thru prayers, its very very disturbing

besides... your prayer is between you and your Lord

Your prayer for QL... you made one on a similar vein to me yesterday... and I have to comment...

PM said...

"I see you are going to enter the Holy month of Ramadan with the same arrogance and intolerance as is typical of you the rest of the year. May Allah accept your fast and prayers, and forgive you your transgressions. Ameen."

Who are you to judge that she is being arrogant or intolerant?... Let Allah be the judge of that...

And who are you to judge that she has transgressed?... Let Allah be the judge of that...

Your comment that her behavior 'is typical of you the rest of the year' also has an undertone that she should be ashamed of her usual demeanor... Who are you to judge that? Why should she need to apologetic?

A True Muslim will do the same things he does through out the year through Ramadhan... but only with MORE intensity and MORE devotion... for he need not be embarrassed or apologetic of what he does through the year...

A basic Islamic tenet that you don't seem to be aware of is that only Allah knows that which is best for you. Hence, better than asking Allah for something specific in this world, you ask for whatever he deems is best for you in this world...

There is no founder of Hinduism. You really should watch your "source material" :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

edifis..

I didn't read that in the Quran..

I got it from other resources.

According to those resources, the founder of Hinduism was a zoo-keeper, wasn't he?

Eco, my response was towards addressing QL's description of Lord Krishna.

his explaination about your scriptures are crystal clear

QL, you suppose you know everything there is to know on Earth by reading one book. But I may believe it is not true.

Please do not provide incorrect info about our Gods please(Krishna). Consider what you will feel if people from other religion propagates incorrect information about Allah or the Prophet Muhammad.

ramadan Kareem!

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

One chat buddy was debating with us for 4 hrs....why cant

we women marry four :)) She is preaching Islam and is known as Angie

One lady says she is revert for 8yrs and her hubby is Christian she cant break her marriage for Islam :))

:)) this is most hilarious....Why cant we pray in bikini

Ya rab I love them all

http://www.tubeislam.com/video/4391/Ramadan-Fiqh-Issues

Maybe you should relax a bit, this discussion is getting a bit personnal;

I mean if you're both muslims and get along this well what do you leave for non muslims?

Just take it easy and start Ramadan with a new spirit,

Ramadan Kareem to all QL muslim members :)

Din-i-Ilah to fulfill his needs

http://www.tubeislam.com/video/4391/Ramadan-Fiqh-Issues

I see you are going to enter the Holy month of Ramadan with the same arrogance and intolerance as is typical of you the rest of the year. May Allah accept your fast and prayers, and forgive you your transgressions. Ameen.

I have studied many religions -- in university and on my own -- so you are not elucidating me with your remarks about Islam or any other religion. In fact, it's clear to see that your "knowledge" is all a part of your brainwashing in attempt to convince you that you are on the right path. I don't need to put everyone else down or make up lies about other religions to be convinced.

And btw, "end of discussion" only works if you take yourself off of QL. Maybe you should consider that! :-P

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

This so-called Baha'ullah is contradicting himself. I read the link, PM, and before that I'd read the Quran.

BTW, the name Baha'uddin is 100% Arabic. Arabic reached Iran through Islam. Obviously he belonged to a Muslim society, and then decided, for some reason, to declare himself yet another prophet that God forgot about him when He said the religion was complete! (astaghfir Allah)

He believes in the Quran and Prophet Muhammed, yet believes in Krishna (who for your information is a God with the head of an elephant and a tail of a monkey and God knows what other organs he found in the zoo!), and denies the completion of religion by the message of Prophet Muhammed as stated in the above-mentioned verse.

This is getting rediculous!!

Final advice: Focus, PM, on one religion at a time and don't get distracted by bits and pieces here and there.

End of discussion.

who is #2 and who is #1 ?

I don't want to be any #

Hash 1 hash no 2 hash 3 hash 4 ........

Basic Teachings of Bahá'u'lláh

Bahá'u'lláh taught that there is one God whose successive revelations of His will to humanity have been the chief civilizing force in history. The agents of this process have been the Divine Messengers whom people have seen chiefly as the founders of separate religious systems but whose common purpose has been to bring the human race to spiritual and moral maturity.

Humanity is now coming of age. It is this that makes possible the unification of the human family and the building of a peaceful, global society. Among the principles which the Bahá'í Faith promotes as vital to the achievement of this goal are

1. the abandonment of all forms of prejudice

2. assurance to women of full equality of opportunity with men

3. recognition of the unity and relativity of religious truth

4. the elimination of extremes of poverty and wealth

5. the realization of universal education

6. the responsibility of each person to independently search for truth

7. the establishment of a global commonwealth of nations

8. recognition that true religion is in harmony with reason and the pursuit of scientific knowledge

http://info.bahai.org/bahaullah-basic-teachings.html

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

The Bahá'í Faith is the youngest of the world's independent religions. Its founder, Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), is regarded by Bahá'ís as the most recent in the line of Messengers of God that stretches back beyond recorded time and that includes Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Christ and Muhammad.

The central theme of Bahá'u'lláh's message is that humanity is one single race and that the day has come for its unification in one global society. God, Bahá'u'lláh said, has set in motion historical forces that are breaking down traditional barriers of race, class, creed, and nation and that will, in time, give birth to a universal civilization. The principal challenge facing the peoples of the earth is to accept the fact of their oneness and to assist the processes of unification.

http://info.bahai.org/

So by universal, I meant to say they believe we are all worshipping the same God, who sent different messengers to different people at different times. Please note, I am not saying I believe this but am trying to explain that they are not a Muslim sect -- and do not accept incest, as you so rudely stated.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM..

Baha'is believe that God is universal? Where does the Quran, Prophet Muhammed or any Muslim say that Allah is regional or local?

#2 hates #1!

.

I can share my conversion story with whomever I please and do not appreciate being bullied on a forum by you.

I became a Muslim because I believe that there is one God and that Muhammad was His prophet. No hidden agenda and no ex-communication (since I wasn't Catholic anyway).

What you have written here is very rude and disrespectful. It makes me suspect you have more in common with my #1 psycho fan than I previously thought. :-(

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

My imagination is not so Powerful PM

HaHaHa, PM who is your #1 Psycho Fan?

PM I may admire most religion. I may like the people. I am allowed to read their scriptures and I may choose to believe the scriptures too. It's all permitted in my religion. So my case is different. My religion never says anything bad about other religions or disbelievers.

Our Gods can't be so insecure and they don't want 100% of my devotion. If they did, I believe there would be civil war among the Gods. So our Gods share our love and Devotion. We are allowed to worship the Gods of other religions too and be benevolent to their prophets. That is why in India so many religions co-exist peacefully.

But my understanding is that if you are a true muslim you should not believe or admire any other religions or it's teachings. I don't know but most muslims I have met say so. You should know better as you are a muslim.

I suggest you not worry about who the "true Muslim" is and let God take care of that. I know I do :-)

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM, there can be only one reason to become a muslim. Your belief in oneness of Allah(no other God exists) and the complete trust in Prophet Muhammed's way and the Qu'ran. And I see no reasonn why one needs a very close friend to confide. Is there any hidden agenda, why you converted or were you excommunicated from the Church that you need a special friend to disclose the secret?

Thank god I'm an atheist

#2 psycho fan here, on duty!

Sir,Yes Sir!...oops!

]:)

Maam, Yes Maam! :)

.

why I became a Muslim and how I feel about the issues you have raised here. However, I am not going to give you or any other QLer (especially my #1 psycho fan) any more ammunition to attack me.

Suffice it to say I find much that is admirable about many religions. Don't you?

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

that has sent his message through many Prophets. I am sure you know there are Qatari Baha'is who sought asylum here some 30 years back or so and were given citizenship. It wouldn't be hard for you to find someone to discuss this with if you were sincere and could refrain from insulting them by saying they practice incest.

BTW, I haven't seen you apologize for making that malicious statement....

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM, if you still see a lot to admire about the Bahai religion, why did you become a muslim? Why don't you become a Bahai?

Aren't muslims supposed to believe that all other religions are corrupt practices. That is the only motivation to remain a muslim(#1). If you believe other religious principles and admire other religions, doesn't it manifest your disbelief in the perfectness (or divineness) of the Qu'ran?

#1: Why I say so: Because it is the most difficult religion to follow, as many things are compulsory like fasting in Ramadan and 5 prayers,prohibition of many haram things etc. Those who are born into it have no option but to practice it. But those who chose to covert at a later stage in their life must have done so because they have understood the religion and believed it to be the only true & perfect religion.

PM..

I will not discuss Baha'ism with you because you're a third party. I'd rather discuss it with a Baha'i.

Generally speaking, if they believe in the Quran and Prophet Muhammed, then this is what Allah says in the Quran:

" This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM" (5,3)

According to this verse, there's no need for another religion nor another prophet after Prophet Muhammed.

If the teachings of Baha'ism are exactly the same as Islam, and comes at a time when Islam is still alive and followed by over a billion persons, then Baha'ism comes as a redundancy and a means to split human beings furhter. Allah wouldn't do it. However, someone looking for fame, wealth or some spiritual power would!

Even when Jesus comes in the end of time, he will not bring a new religion, simply because the religion has been perfected when Allah sent his final message through Prophet Muhammed.

Its a far away branches of christianity. Extensively modified in their teaching. Few such groups practices in my country.

http://www.bci.org/islam-bahai/SectIslam.htm

The independent nature of the new Faith was first proclaimed during the Conference of Badasht in 1848 when a group of the followers of the Bab (the Herald of the Baha'i Faith), gathered in the hamlet of Badasht in North East Iran to discuss the nature of their new Faith.

As the new religion first spread in countries predominantly Muslim, many of it's followers maintained the strong ties they had with their Muslim families and friends. Objections, however, often arose in those countries to many of the everyday life observances such as marriages and funerals which were conducted according to Baha'i laws. Because of these objections, Baha'is for example were refused burial in cemeteries which belonged to followers of other religions.

Resulting from one such case, the highest religious court in Egypt, confirmed in 1925, the decision of one of the lower courts, and officially declared the Baha'i Faith as a separate and independent religion which (according to the court) could not be reconciled with what followers of Islam, of the different schools of thought, believe in:

"The Baha'i Faith is a new religion, entirely independent, with beliefs, principles and laws of its own, which differ from, and are utterly in conflict with, the beliefs, principles and laws of Islam. No Baha'i, therefore, can be regarded a Muslim or vice-versa, even as no Buddhist, Brahmin, or Christian can be regarded a Muslim or vice-versa."

It follows that both Baha'is, and the Islamic court agree that the Baha'i Faith is not a sect of Islam.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

with her and other Bahais. I actually became interested in Bahai as a teen in the US. I still see a lot to admire about their religion. If you really want to understand them then check out the link I gave you; it is what my friend recommended as one of the best sources. Apparently there are a number of fake Bahai websites that have been set up by people of a certain religious faith who have attempted to harm their reputation. I suggest you avoid them; although I suspect it's too late and you have gathered your information from them already :-)

Ramadan Kareem.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Bahai's are not muslins.

PM.. Invite her to explain this religion pls

website check this out:

http://info.bahai.org/

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Who considers them an Islamic sect? Is it perchance a Muslim scholar.....

How can they offically be Muslims? Is there a religious council made up of all the religions in this world that decides such matters?

a Muslim sect according to the Bahais that I have known and talked to. That is only what you have been told as a Muslim apparently.

I am not here to judge their religion and any corruption. I simply wanted to set the record straight about some very malicious and destructive remarks made regarding incest.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

PM..If they don't consider themselves Muslims, what are they then? Bahaism is considered an Islamic sect..officially they are Muslims..If they say they're not Muslims, that only proves my point that their religion is corrupted.

UKEng don't feign ignorance. At your age, you surely know the difference between the Bahai's and the Zoroastrians(Parsis). The Parsis mainly belong to India and there is also a considerabe Parsi population in your UK too. They migrated from Persia 1400 years back.

if your level of understanding is just like that! It's your view, not mine! Parallelism, denied!

"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"

there are no scriptures nor idols. Their prayer hall is

more like meditation ground calm & peaceful.

www.care.org

(who btw is a Qatari citizen) today to ask her about this, after researching it on the internet. The Bahai's do not allow marrying between brothers and sisters or any other close family relationship. In fact, unlike Gulf Arabs it is rare to have them even marry cousins or with in the same family. In their holy book there is a passage that encourages marrying distant from your family relations, in part because of health.

My friend went on to tell me that this is a lie that Gulf Arabs have made up about Bahais in their crusade against them and intolerance for other religions. In light of the fact that some seem to be perpetuating such malicious and disgusting gossip, I have to believe she is telling the truth.

I'm really disappointed that you are promoting this lie on QL, QatariLady -- especially right before Ramadan. :-(

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Ummjake makes an interesting point. I don't know much about Bhai's but do some quick research they seem to be the next people of the various books. Like he says the evolution of Judaism, Christainity and Islam..... like I said on a previous thread most religions start out as heresy and I am sure you see them that way now, but maybe in the future they will take over.

(One interesting point I found is that the Bhais are the fastest growing religion in the world not Islam, but then again they are starting from a smaller base!)

Ummjake..

So they took the teachings of Islam and attributed them to Bahauddin..This is piracy!

Using your line of logic, people should not eat because they might OVEREAT and become obese, they shouldn't learn to drive because some of them will starts to drive too fast and cause accidents, etc. -- so it's much better if they don't start down those roads at all.

Right?

And QatariLady -- the Baha'i faith is a religion that essentially believes in the oneness of humanity and seeks to break down the barriers between races, social classes, and other divisions of people on Earth. They believe that religions have progressed through history, and that the various prophets that have come before (Abraham, Buddha, etc.) have revealed certain messages from God that were necessary and relevant for people in the time/place they were revealed -- kind of a religious evolution, if you will. It teaches the importance of gender equality, peace, universal education and the elimination of poverty.

You might be surprised to learn that Baha'is do not drink alcohol, take drugs, or gamble. They fast, pray, and believe sex should only happen between a husband and a wife.

They don't marry their sisters or aunts as you suggested (I think very few organized religions espouse that practice).

They don't pretend to be Muslims, though they accept that Mohammed -- like Jesus and Baha'ullah (the founder of their religion) -- was a messenger of God.

And back to an earlier point that someone mentioned in this thread about the acceptance of other religions here in Qatar/the Middle East -- well, it certainly isn't on the scale that it is in other parts of the world. There are NO formal religious buildings other than mosques allowed in KSA. No synagogues or temples here (and while perhaps no Qatari citizens may be Jewish, there certainly are Jews here, just as there are Baha'is, etc.). So definitely a lot of room for improvement in that regard, IMHO.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

We as Muslims consider all the prophets are holy and the prophets holy status is based on the difficulties they faced.

At the end I would like to tell you that our prophet Mohammed PBUH said that he came to complete the good manners and behavior.

This means there were good manners and behavior before he came.

Alexa as you know not all people are the same.

Agree, khalid, God does exist, however we don't seems to share a common god after all these debate like:- my prophet is holier than yours.

Alexa : How are you?

Ever picked up a fone only to find out that the voice at the other end is an automated response system? :-p

You will know that God exist.

Think why are you brought to this life?

God is the most merceful.

but regarding drinking alcohol, IF you truly believe that you have a good "CONTROL" of not to go far beyond your capacity (or as per doctor's recommendation), by all means, drink! But where is being a drunkard start....... you get it right, by sipping a little of ......!

Good afternoon!

"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"

Khalid: Researchers have also agreed that alcohol in limited amounts are good for health. Only when it exceeds certain amounts it is bad. If your point is abt restrictions, most ppl dont believe in God not because of restrictions, but coz it doesnt make sense to them. You are sounding childish and insulting someone's intelligence when you accuse somebody of not believeing in God coz of restrictions. Also note that there are quite a few believer's who smoke and drink.

but the point is why are you talking abt alcohol and cigarettes when the whole point(that you are not convinced about) is about homocentricity, ego n pride? You are increasingly sounding like a broken record, Khalid.

my questions?

"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"

Why does the researchers in UK and doctors confirm that the alcohol and cigarettes are the source of mouth cancer?

A conclusion is reached when it is done on a respectable percent of people.

Btw, Khalid, you have said nothing about what I have given (about homocentrism)and instead has gotten on a different tangent. Hope you could get ur mind around it.

Ever heard of something called "responsible Drinking"?

Dont run to ur holy books, its not written in any of 'em. Ask me. its fun and in small amounts it has been proven to be healthy.

In fact, in a lot of places, it has been proved to be safer than religion and religous people.Now dont ask me the link that says it. Use common sense and look around u.

Also I will be honest with you, I have good Christian friends.

Also every thing in this world shows that there is God.

So why should I deny the idea of God existance.

Most probably those who do not want to believe in God thinks that believing in God will restrict them.

If some one ask me why you do not drink alcohol or wine?

I will tell him because God prohibitted drinking alcohol, I will not tell him because it is not good for liver.

Suppose some was drinking alcohol and then he had a liver disease because of the alcohol, then he will say alcohol is bad because it brings liver disease.

Before one week on Al Jazeera there was a program showing that the number of people in UK having mouth cancer is increasing and it is due to drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes.

and why are you not convinced, khalid? Mind picking up inconsistencies in the 'decorated' speech as you see it?

http://www.care.org/

ummjake..

Ok what is Bahaism?

If Bahais are true Muslims and believe in the holy Quran then why they had a new prophet and in the 19th century.

A true Muslim knows that Mohammed PBUH is the last prophet because that is what is mintioned in the holy Quran.

It provides me helpful tips with great ideas. Thanks

__________________

sliding rear window - truck rear window - Commercial Door Closer

It provides me helpful tips with great ideas. Thanks

__________________

Convex safety Mirror - dome mirror - security mirrors

...what you don't know could fill a book.

Baha'i people do NOT marry their sisters. That's a convenient untruth that Muslims have developed about them, to try and discredit them -- the same way that many Sunni Muslims here will talk sh*t about Shia Muslims and their beliefs (calling them not true Muslims).

I am constantly amused and a little disappointed that many Muslims here have such an irrational fear of actually learning about other faiths in an intelligent way. They seem to be worried that if people actually heard anything interesting or appealing, they might convert, and that would be bad and haram. So better to fill their heads with misinformation so they lose interest in anything except what they've grown up learning.

I have no problem with being firm in your own faith, but when people unfairly assail other people's beliefs without taking the effort to actually learn what they truly believe, they they just come off as ignorant individuals who are willing to believe anything without question.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

Bahais worship the Sun?

-----------------

HE WHO DARES WINS

I know several Bahais as well and I've never even heard of them marrying their cousins! From what I can understand interracial marriage is HIGHLY promoted amongst Bahais, which makes it pretty impossible to marry your sibling.

these theory and decorated speech which are trying to say that there is no God.

I've never heard of incest in the Bahai faith, although like Gulf Arabs some do marry cousins. Could you provide proof, QatariLady? I have tried to look this up and didn't find anything.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Baha'is are corrupt. Their men marry their own sisters and aunts. True religions and normal human beings don't approve of that.

Khalid: Mind explaining what exactly you are not convinced about, if possible, in your own words?

I mean this is as far as I know and believe.

by the enemy of Islam Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Nuri (Sheia) in Iran.

As you know Sheia did not exist at the time of our prophet Mohammed.

We as Muslims believes that there are only three true religion Islam, Christianity, Jews

Zoroastrians are Bahia's?

-----------------

HE WHO DARES WINS

It is in the 19th century and it started in Persia.

Yes the Bahais have a prophet. Bahalluah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith

It is not Bhais, they are Bahai's. The originated in a region near Turkmenistan. Now they are everywhere from Iran to Russia and US.

Bhais do not have any prophet

It is deviation from Islam, they are muslims but with their own rules.

In my opinion they should be segregated.

I hear Bhais are faster growing religion not islam

is this true yes?

A straight description from the head is better than copy & paste otherwise rephrase it away from the original. Why do you have to use somebodys written opinion to reflect your thought

"I am not convinced ...try again"

lol, i'll remember that!

after any "copy/paste" signed Khalid i'll reply :"I am not convinced ...try again" :)

.

try again

Well, khalid, if you were as keen on reading what I had pasted as getting one up on me, you would have noticed taht I have given the name of the book and the author on whose ideas the website was based.

Also the link you gave is for another page. this is the link

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/homocentricity.html

Oh and do tell me what you hav to say abt the content, if you can get ur mind around that .

Here is the website which you used

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/pride.html

I had put the website which I used after the copy and paste but you did not.

WOW! Khalid! now where did you lift that from? mind giving credit to the original author?

Answer to ur question: I hav thought of all that and some more. so?

As for ur second cut n paste...read this!

“Given the egocentrism that seems to characterize the human race, convincing people that the universe was designed with them in mind is as easy as convincing a child that candy is good for him.” "Intelligent Design" by Victor J. Stenger

Our ego makes us want to feel special, wanted, watched and observed. We want to be punished when we do wrong, because we like to feel that our actions count. 'God' provides an imaginary fulfillment of the role required by our ego; the position of a being that ratifies our importance in the world. The less important we feel ourselves to be, the more this God can assert itself. In angst and powerlessness, people find comfort in a personal "realisation" that actually everything is ok, they are not worthless, because God cares for them. Some turn to God to fill a hole created in our heads by an impoverished ego, filling them with a sense of importance.

------------------------------------

Pride is an important function of the ego.

Which indicates more pride: to believe that one's consciousness is merely the product of stupid and uncaring random processes, or to believe that one's consciousness is a supernatural phenomenon akin to that of angels and gods?

Which indicates more pride: to believe that the vast and ancient universe has no purpose, or to believe that a universe of 100 billion galaxies was created 14 billion years ago just so that one could grace it with one's presence?

Which indicates more pride: to believe that one's mind will soon forever cease, or to believe that one's mind is eternal?

FS..

Qatar is not the Arab and Islamic world..

We don't have Jewish citizens..but they exist in other Arab and Islamic countries

UKEng....yes they have it everywhere except Qatar and Saudi...probably bcos some people think its 'man made' lol