Qatar calls for measures...

ty Cabbage  for your support. cheers!

BTW, I carefully scrunitized all your posts, nowhere have you mentioned the word "islamophobia". You have taken part of the sentence and have completely blown it out of context. This is unfair on your part.

Gardene, everything said by Qatar is in the light of Islamophobia. There are clear behaviour code of conduct (including attire) to enter any islamic state. Qatar is not changing rules overnight for certain religion/sect unlike some country which portray to be liberal one day and then discriminate muslims with new rules next day. This in turn is hypocrisy as these very countries don't shy to have a bilateral trade relationship with Islamic countries. The do's and don't list for non-muslims is quite clear in Qatar.

Again you are missing the point – my example of Greece was to show that even with a country as old as Greece there is still religious intolerance even in 2011 – they too have made speeches (just like Qatar).

Qatar as a Muslim country highlighted the intolerance towards Islam. Where they hypocritical to do so? NO. They have every right to defend and protect their own faith as WE have every right to defend our faith.

Qatar, HAS and continues to make progress with the inclusion and acceptance of other religions. They are a young country and should be allowed to progress at their own rate NOT at a dictated pace by foreign nationals who have chosen to come and live here. All of us know when we come here – there is at present limited access to all religions (at the moment).

We all know that during the Holy Month of Ramadan – we are expected to follow the rules. Just as much as a Muslim; for example goes to live in the UK has to put up with having Christmas and Easter rammed down their neck – whilst at the moment very little is done to celebrate their festivals. We accept they have their festivals but you don’t see major department stores with Ramadan banners or even shops decorating for Diwali. Why? Even though we are a multicultural country and we are seen as ‘tolerant’ we still are basically a Christian country.

As regards links to India – you do your own work. If I were to post link regarding the problems any country has then I may be accused of bashing or being racist. It is your country you provide the proof you are superior to Qatar with regards religious intolerance. And when I say tolerant; I don’t mean quote the number of religions you have or the number of buildings you have – tell me and show me there are no problems there between the diverse religions you tolerate.

My only point in this whole post; to all those that criticise Qatar is this – People in glass houses should not throw stones.

@ Mom_me,as i've already stated earlier,calling for increased tolerance towards Islam & increased measures to counter Islamophobia is something i'm 100% in agreement with & Qatar has done well to call for it,what they should've done was stop @ that instead of trying to 'neutralize' it by calling for increased religious tolerance per se & THAT is my issue,how can they with their almost zero tolerance of other religions call for it???...Sure,a call for increased religious tolerance in general includes increased tolerance towards Islam but that distinction ought to be made clear when a non-tolerant country makes such statements... 

Wrong debate. The OP has completely mislead posters by adding his personal comments which has nothing to do with Qatar's request to deal with Islamophobia on an International platform. Qatar has all the rights to do so. Atrocities to my muslim friends in the name of Islam includes 1. in certain countries ALL of them are deemed as potential terrorist (does Qatar treats non-muslims as threats ? NO.) 2. Hate crime against muslims has increased alarmingly(Again a Big No for non-muslims in Qatar)and so on....Turkey is excluded from EU while Greece is bailed out - balant racism. I'd say speak up Qatar - Loud and clear.

Gardene : As a non-muslim I feel completely safe uttering the name of my God in front of muslims without the extreme reactions of those around me ducking inside the chairs as if i am a living time bomb. (Ditto for someone with a beard in certain countries).

krazy what examples have you provided here?

Cabbage I showed you how greece can't be accused of hypocrisy as they sent the letter to UN after getting rid of intolerance themselves. I challenged you on India, you ignored... We gave examples of people being deported for following their religion and you ignored... Even the qataris I know accept this problem of religious intolerance then what is your angle...

From the BBC – www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13031397

At least two women have been briefly detained in France while wearing Islamic veils, after a law banning the garment in public came into force.

Police said they were held not because of their veils but for joining an unauthorised protest, and they were later released.

France is the first country in Europe to publicly ban a form of dress some Muslims regard as a religious duty.

Offenders face a fine of 150 euros (£133; $217) and a citizenship course.

People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

The two women detained had taken part in a demonstration outside Notre Dame cathedral in Paris. Police said the protest had not been authorised and so people were asked to move on. When they did not, they were arrested.

He made many other valid points to :-) He may have used the word 'headscarf' but we all know what he meant and so did you really.

gadarene your % seems to be skewed.

France hasn't banned the head scarf so his valid points are not quite in line with the facts but as evident from your posts cabbage, you consider facts over rated.

Good valid points made.

Perhaps the next speech given at the UN should be - The World calls for measures....

ONCE AGAIN,Qatar's levels of religious tolerance is upto them to decide,i personally believe in freedom of choice so yes it would be nice to live in a society that had more of it BUT as i have already clearly stated,the levels are THEIRS to decide,seeing as it is THEIR country,i may not accept it but i respect it,my gripe is with them wanting to have the cake & eat it as well,i'm very sure you get EXACTLY what i mean,(irresopective of if you accept it or not)so i'm not going to ask...

I speak for myself here when i say that India has numerous tolerance issues of it's own that need to be dealt with but again to repeat myself,in a country with probably the largest religious,linguistic & cultural diversity on the planet spread out amongst the 2nd highest population on the planet,it's a wonder we're actually keeping it all together with some semblance of order amidst the chaos along with an economy that's booming so to deny that India has issues would be foolish to say the least,BUT this thread is NOT titled "INDIA calls for measures..." now is it?...it's(repeat after me now)"QATAR calls for measures..." you said

"Be prepared however for some people to come back with facts and figures about India and its religious intolerance. If you are happy to take those criticisms on the chin - good for you." allright then,let's compare religious tolerance levels,i have already asked you 4 very direct questions on the issue that,unlike facts & figures from some dodgy website funded by God knows who,DIRECTLY addresses the issue & as yet,you have no answers for me,those are pertinent questions that compare DIRECTLY the religious tolerance levels of both countries...you're trying to make this out to be a "India is as bad (i daresay worse) as Qatar if not worse",that much is very obvious,as are your obvious issues with India/Indians in general(i say this based on the tone in many of your posts,not just this one),so none of us is free of guilt,catch my drift?...so getting back to the comparison,i asked the questions first & have repeated them,they are simple yes/no questions & clear up @ ground level the very obvious difference in tolerance levels of both countries & i say again,this is NOT an indication or implication that India doesn't have it's own issues but for someone to have the audacity to imply that the two countries are similar in their tolerance levels,they ought to answer those very pertinent questions to have any credibility about their claims...

"Would you like other people to come to India and tell you how to run your country and what you should tolerate or not tolerate?" No but i would also keep quiet if India had the same low tolerance levels as this place & then went shooting their mouth off @ the UN & this thread were titled, "INDIA calls for measures..." but it's not,fair enough?...

Now,the answer to the 4 questions if you don't mind...

Religious tolerance is the policy to extend religious freedom on all levels something which not a lot of people l have. Over the past few years a number of Western countries put a ban on the Islamic Headscarf, Take France for Example and how the Muslim girls of France have been forced to take their head scarf’s off if they wanted to have an education and making decent living for themselves and in many Scandinavian countries Muslims still don’t have a graveyard to bury their dead like in Denmark and in Switzerland they ban Minarets because in their opinion it don’t match with the secular nature of Swaziland and now they are even fining Muslim women for choosing to wear a veil on French streets .

Now unlike any of those so called modern secular western countries where democracy and freedom of speech is the game of pick and choose, over here in Qatar any western woman can go out on the streets of Doha wearing however she likes. Just the other day I was at the Dukhan seaside and there were western women in their bikini swimming with their men , just go to Villago on weekend and see how western women and some Arab women are walking around the mall almost skimpy dresses , Christian men and women with crucifixes hanging down their necks’ and on the rare mirrors of their cars and nobody says nothing to them you even have a religious compound with churches of the prominent denominations of Christianity but in Sweden for example , Muslims pray Friday inside rented ware houses and covered parking because the govrt there hasn’t yet made up its mind whether or not they deserve a place of worship erected for them!. Now don’t think for a second that I’m defending Qatar or that I think Qatar is the best place in the world to be as far as religious tolerance is concerned, yes Qatar as a state is still lagging behind on many levels, including some human religious and human rights but also Qatar has come a long way in this that in my opinion entitles it to more than a round of applause and I expect you guys to at least acknowledge the good side and try to focus on the full part of the water-glass while observing how Qatar progresses on all levels including religious tolerance. Also you do not always have to agree with others beliefs etc but to be tolerant is to recognize that everyone has different views and opinions which they are entitled to have.

I have a lot of tolerance for others religions. I respect anyone that has that much faith and they set a good example of how religion gives you hope.

I have my own personal beliefs, but that does not mean I wish anyone harm who doesn’t share them.

Religious will always be a great issue when it affects the political and economic conditions of everybody...and if it is not well taken to address everybody's equal footing. Anyway we all believed in one God..might differs in names and how we do our prayers but their is only one God one Creator..

Firstly why are you trying to compare Qatar with the worst?

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1899180?page=1#ixzz1Q1otbZCk

lol good grief lol honestly is that your question?

Honestly I can't help but laugh at that.

I will rephrase it though just for you - as far as a Muslim state in this part of the world goes - Qatar is showing definite improvements in religious tolerance :-) The speech was not only directed at us others it was directed at other Muslim states.

Trying to use a non-offensive analogy - if somebody said the English are drinkers - I would reply - 'try being Irish' lol I would not trash the English because of their drinking habits, it is well known that the Irish are hardened drinkers. The Brits are very good at it - but we would win the gold in the Olympics:-P

With regards Talat’s letter - The letter dated 10th of October 2006 criticizes the Greek Cypriot leader Tassos Papadopoulos for his intransigent attitude towards solving the Cyprus Problem and reiterates the Turkish Cypriot Side’s readiness to sit at the negotiating table for a lasting solution to the Cyprus problem under the aegis of the United Nations.

Talat was trying to get Greece to accept and be more tolerant in all things including religion.

Greece to this day still has massive problems with religious intolerance –

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&sqi=2&ved=0CFAQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fagis10.tripod.com%2F&ei=FDICTs_FEZHorQfT_rGGAw&usg=AFQjCNGcQ61j2zwksq0bg0Qyx9l4USbL3g

I do call a spade a spade – when it is needed however on this occasion I think Qatar is not great but they are a lot better than some and not as good as others :-)

I am glad you like Qatar – I do too. I also try to show some degree of loyalty to people that provide my family with an income and a home.

It may be best if you start the thread with regarding India and its problems – that way it won’t be seen as somebody just opening a thread just for bashing :-)

Ok let me try this one more time and I am hoping for simple direct answers this time. Firstly why are you trying to compare Qatar with the worst? Secondly its not about what they do or don't practice, its about not doing it themselves and asking the rest of the world to do it. Thirdly that Greece thing you keep talking about, president Talat wrote that letter to UN towards the end of 2005 and as you mentioned yourself religious intolerance was prevalent there few decades ago and guess what 2005 wasn't few decades ago. How did they become more hypocritical based on that, I don't know. The letter actually talked about racism and extreme nationalism and NOT religion is another matter which you conveniently ignored. Nobody hates Qatar here and I do like Qatar but calling a spade a spade isn't that bad a thing, try it sometimes. As for your religious intolerance issues regarding India, do mention them. I will explain the context to you and will admit hypocrisy wherever applicable. Rest assured I won't say, so what look at Greece.

Chapter 9,000,000 paragraph 7,000,000 lol

If you want to criticise Qatar and its ‘religious intolerance’ - feel free to do so - that is your right. Be prepared however for some people to come back with facts and figures about India and its religious intolerance. If you are happy to take those criticisms on the chin - good for you.

However, I think that would soon turn into a bashing thread and so therefore not exactly the way to go.

I don’t know how much simpler I could have put the Greece intolerance analogy.

I will try and explain in another simpler way – up until a couple of decades ago (that means 20/30 years); the only religion that was tolerated in Greece was The Greek Orthodox Church.

NO other religion allowed.

Qatar is Muslim – but does allow (at some level) other religions to practice here.

Qatar – newish country – Greece very old. Get it now?

In other words – other countries can be accused of just the same intolerance NOT ONLY QATAR, even ones with long histories. BOTH (that means the two of them) have given speeches on the world stage regarding intolerance.

Ergo – Qatar is actually doing better at its current state of development than some countries who have a much longer history.

If you talk to people who lived here for a very long period of time and they lived here say in the 70’s/80’s then yes at that time, it was not a very tolerant country at all.

Great steps have been taken by Qatar and should we not be grateful for that? It may not be what you want or at the pace you require – but this is not your country; do you have the right to dictate the pace of their growth?

Would you like other people to come to India and tell you how to run your country and what you should tolerate or not tolerate?

As for my gripes regarding Qatar – I prefer to keep them to myself as I am sure a Qatari person could have gripes about the UK or Ireland.

I am sorry I am happy in Qatar – I don’t know what to do about that. Perhaps you could advise me as you seem quite unhappy and angry about a lot of things:-)

"is it not better we make sure our own country of origin has not done the same." so if the country we live in is hypocritical,we shouldn't say anything if our countries of origin are responsible for the same even if

a) we readily admit NO country can claim to be guilt-free or fully tolerant

b) Our home country's hypocrisy is NOT the topic of discussion

If it really bothers you that much,start a separate thread about it & we'll discuss it there...

It's not "common sense" to not point one country's instance of hypocrisy because another is guilty of it because at some level EVERY country is guilty of it...so keeping quiet about QATAR's hypocrisy because our home country is guilty of it @ some level is "common sense",in which case NO ONE can really criticize ANY country's conduct can they?...because @ some level,ALL of our home country's are guilty of the same,so much for "healthy debate"...

"Qatar quite rightly highlighted intolerance of Islam in the world – at some level they will know that some of that comes from people’s perception of Islam and problems within their own people." I for one fully agree with this part of their statement,what they should've done was leave it at that rather than actually call for increased religious tolerance on a general level when they have such low levels of it themselves.

Greece,India,whatever,ALL countries are guilty of intolerance @ SOME LEVEL,the question here is what LEVELS are we talking about & BASED on those LEVELS,do countries like Qatar have a right to call for increased tolerance???

I asked 4 very simple questions as a clear as daylight comparison between the religious tolerance levels of Qatar & my home country India,not surprisingly,no answers have been forthcoming...i didn't ask those questions as an indication or implication of India's 100% tolerance level,far from it,India has a number of it's own issues to deal with when it comes to religious tolerance or the lack of it thereof & since someone seems to be so obsessed with it maybe they ought to start ANOTHER THREAD about it???...

This is simply about "practice what you preach".

Either show a significant change in their own tolerance levels of other faiths BEFORE calling for measures for increased tolerance towards Islam or just be as you are but please,keep quiet about it...

It does no service to 'healthy debate' when 'another view' is offered,just for argument's sake i dare say...

"like a lot of other people I have my gripes with Qatar." you keep saying that so i'm curious,would you care to list them here?...because really, going by your posts,one would think you thought it was the best country on the planet,a constant "they can do no wrong" tone in your posts so really,i am as i'm sure a lot of others are curious as to what gripes you could possibly have with this place? please,enlighten us :)...

@ s_isale the cow is sacred to Hindus,whichever part of the country they're from...India has a 90something % Hindu population but is officially a secular country...your point being?...

I am not blindly supporting Qatar – I have made it quite clear, like a lot of other people I have my gripes with Qatar.

One of the points I have tried to make is this - If any of us want to accuse another country of hypocrisy and berate them for making a speech on the ‘world stage’ like Qatar has done and then be judged as hypocrites; is it not better we make sure our own country of origin has not done the same.

If we are unable to demonstrate we are squeaky clean and not without hypocrisy ourselves – how can we then possibly berate another country? All that will happen; is a person will then give proof of hypocrisy within our own.

This is not sucking up to anything or anybody – it’s called common sense.

Some countries that state they have religious tolerance –are some of the worst for religious based violence and are quite handy at deporting people at the drop of a hat without warning.

Was there not a case where a group from the Salvation Army were refused visa renewals in a ‘certain country’ given no reason and deported a few days after?

Has there not been cases where churches and temples have been ransacked, nuns raped, bibles burnt, temples destroyed and all this in a ‘certain country’ that shows ‘remarkable religious tolerance’:-/

Has a certain country not banned the veil?

As seen painfully all too often – actions speak louder than words.

This was the basis for my counter argument and debate – not to blindly defend nor suck up – it is called balanced debate i.e. to offer another view.

I still stand by the fact that – any reference to political/religious/economic problems in any country is good; they are highlighted and ‘debated’.

It is what they do or don’t do AFTER highlighting the problems that should be judged.

Qatar quite rightly highlighted intolerance of Islam in the world – at some level they will know that some of that comes from people’s perception of Islam and problems within their own people.

Perhaps they want to sort out their own people/problems before taking on other people’s faith based intolerance.

It’s a small, developing country – it does not have thousands of years behind it – like some of us have. Our diverse religions grew with us and are woven into our evolution.

A well-established country Greece, only allowed one religion in their country until a few decades ago and yes they have given speeches on the world stage with regards ‘tolerance’.

S_isale yes cow is a sacred animal for Hindus and yes beef is available to those who want to eat it.

The current geographical area called India had only Hindu population for around 5000 years before the birth of Jainism & Buddhism in 6th century BC.

I don't see the relevance of that information though.

Now the people who complained about tolerance are intolerant themselves

S-isale don't waste your time ;)

@ s_isale,you say you've been here long enough to see through the half truths being bandied about,but you don't seem to know(or refuse to accept which seems more likely) the whole truth to these particular situations...

So let me clarify,

1) A guy celebrating his 4 year old's birthday at his home wishes to have the priest bless her & invites him over for dinner after the kid's party early in the evening,the priest duly comes & is sat down with the family when state security officials arrive at the house,the guy is taken away to the detention centre & told he is being deported along with his family & to close his affairs(or get someone to close it,seeing as he's been detained & to be released directly on the aircraft taking him home), a couple of weeks later,he & his family are deported,no questions,no trial,no chance for anything...

I personally knew this guy as did the rest of the people in church.

2) An elderly guy & his wife return from holiday in India & are told @ immigration here that their R.P's have been cancelled & they aren't allowed back into the country & have to take a flight back,the guy has been here about two decades,spent two decades of his life working for this lot & this is his "parting gift",can't say goodbye to his kids & grandkids(who are here),has to leave the house he's lived in for so many years,just like that,not even a chance to say goodbye & pack up his stuff,the guy is a 60 something grandfather,it's not like he's going to run away is he???

So really,is this your defence of this country's religious tolerance??? please,save it

As krazysyklone correctly pointed out,if one has to be covert about religious activity in the confines of their home & can be picked up & deported for practicing their religion in the confines of their home then i believe we can safely say,there isn't much religious tolerance here is there?

And if i may clarify,this is their country so their rules apply,i fully agree with that,if they don't want to be tolerant,that is their prerogative,people may criticize them for their intolerance but no one can force them change their stance,it is their sovereign right to decide that BUT they should not put on a facade of religious tolerance @ UN meets by "calling for measures to increase tolerance",that's just a bit much...

I state this because you seem to think there are issues with their intolerance,i for one,have an issue with it but i respect their right to run their country as they see fit,others may not agree but if they want to enforce even zero tolerance,then that is their right BUT DO NOT then PRETEND to be tolerant in front of a world audience,be honest about your stance & defend it or as frenchieman rightly stated,do a China & don't get into these debates,as much as their human rights records & tolerance levels are so poor,some respect to them for the fact that they don't go shooting their mouth off @ UN human rights meetings...

So as you keep pointing out,you break the law you get deported,fair enough,that however,isn't the issue here,the issue here is that such laws very much exist & are enforced in this country so why the pretence & hypocricy on the world stage???...

Is cow a sacred animal of the hindus in south India?

Has India been an exclusively Hindu country ever?

If certain people are TRULY concerned about the "spirit of good debate" rather than blindly supporting these hypocrites,they would first stop constantly pointing out other countries intolerance levels as an excuse & justification for Qatar's statements & actions because i believe we have made it AMPLY clear that NO government on the planet can claim to be 100% guilt free when it comes to both tolerance & hypocricy.

So once again,unless one has something substantial apart from "oh other countries are guilty as well" tirade,please spare us the crap,one country's intolerance or hypocricy at whatever level is absolutely no excuse for another country doing the same,if that were the case,issues would never be resolved because each government(like the individual in question) would simply turn around & say,"oh well other countries are doing it as well,why let them get away with it?" That's merely shirking responsibility for one's own actions & words by using others similar actions & words as justification & leading to a vicious cycle...

Criticism of one's home country's faults,this isn't a thread about those issues,it is specifically about Qatar's own MASSIVE level of religious intolerance while making such hypocritical comments @ a UN human rights meet no less(let's not even get into their human rights record,that would entail a whole other thread,keeping employee's passports,denying them the opprtunity to change jobs,exit permit to leave the country,overworking & underpaying labourers,housing them in conditions i wouldn't let a stray dog live in,the list is endless but that's not what this thread is about.)

So keen to compare Qatar's record with the rest of the world,start a separate thread for it & also start a separate one for India's poor record on these issues seeing as you are so keen to raise the "oh look at your home country's record" at ever instance...

I have replied this with very pertinent questions to which you obviously had no answer,so i will ask again,with regards to my home country India & please if you have no answers,just man up & say so instead of beating around the bush or diverting from the topic as you are wont to,the questions are in serial order,so please answer accordingly,

India is 90something% Hindu,yet we have churches,mosques,gurduwaras,synagogues,many of which are centuries old,yes,one very prominent,very old mosque was burnt down by Hindu extremists,there have been instances of churches being attacked in certain parts of India but we're not talking about mass attacks here,we're talking stray incidents that are normal for a democratic country,acceptable? certainly not but to be expected in a country with more cultural & religious diversity than any other on the planet,so isolated incidents on A mosque or A church or even a few out of probably a few THOUSAND different places of worship does not count so before you bore us with yet another obscure link,i hope this clarifies the issue,

1) Now,are there or are there not THOUSANDS of places of non-Hindu worship in India?

2) Is the Hindu faith & it's customs imposed on the rest of the country despite India being 90something% Hindu?

Yes,certain hardcore Hindu parts of India have banned cow slaughter because it is sacred,(before you provide another dodgy link) but,

3) Can i not get a good steak or a yummy plate of kheema(minced beef) in India because the cow is sacred to the Hindu faith?

4)Can i not eat or drink as usual during ramadan in India because the Indian muslims(few million of them) around me are fasting?

4 questions off the top of my head pertaining SPECIFICALLY to the issue under discussion,religious tolerance or intolerance & your raising the "look at your home country's record" in your defence of their statements,well here are 4 questions pertaining SPECIFICALLY to religious tolerance(or intolerance) in my home country as compared to Qatar,i believe most people's answers to the above 4 questions should make it amply clear which country is the more religiously tolerant of the two(as if that were even a comparison,but since you keep bringing it up,for an obvious lack of ANYTHING else substantial) here you go...

@ krazysyklone,you do realize that's all she has in her staunch defence of Qatar's conduct?! of course,slightly better than the worst(supposedly,though in all honesty,Qatar just hides it well,they'd be @ the bottom of the table if the whole truth was known,only thing is,unlike the other supposedly worse off offenders,the world is kept in the dark about goings on here thanks to state controlled media & pretty much everything else) is still better right?!

Talk about rear end kissing!

So really,don't expect ANYTHING but reworded, rehashed version of the same "oh other countries are just as bad,Qatar is far from the worst" diatribe,along with links to some obscure dodgy sites as "proof"!!!

and a I have a message for our christian brothers, please look on youtube for a person called Ahmad deedat.

Vishu is a regional festival not religious festival. It is limited to one particular region, not one religion.

I missed whatever ad there was for Akshaya Treetya so can't comment on that.

have you seen the ads on Akshaya Treetiya? the promotions taking place during Vishu? So these are muslim holy days or those of HIndus?

Again trying to compare Qatar with the worst??

Why not the best?

And the website for which you have provided link to, Is that your most creditable source?? ROFL..

I won't comment on the rest but let me just pick India (being my home country), it says about India- "Various conflicts that heat up periodically producing loss of life. Christians are regularly attacked in Orissa province by militant Hindu extremists"

Hahaha regularly???? There was tension on ONE occasion nearly 15 years ago and that was not so much about religious beliefs but the problem was Christian missionaries bribing poor people to convert. 25,000 INR was the going rate at the time. The anger was against that practice and not against Christians.

S_isale- Yes they are not deported as long as they hide it from everyone as if they are committing a crime. Oh wait it is a crime.

I already admitted that in the previous post, they can do whatever they want as long as they keep it hiddden from everyone.

the people were not deported because they were practising their faith in the confines of their homes. been here long enough to see through the half truths being bandied about by some in this forum.

Even the Indian schools over here provide holidays during hindu festivals.

Just to clarify -

These are not my words -

As for " no one is denied the right to worship in the confines of his home." is_ale said that :-)

- So no need for this is there?

once again a statement made by an expat bubble inhabitant with a complete lack of knowledge of what REALLY happens in this town(i'm surprised,didn't all your lawyer friends tell you about it???)

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1899180?page=1#ixzz1Pvz36RRP

Now to this -

How any person can honestly accuse Qatar of being the bigger hypocrite than any of us is beyond me."

That says it all Cabbage.

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1899180?page=1#ixzz1Pvzh4tRR

It certainly does say it all – perhaps you should take the time to read this link http://www.religioustolerance.org/relintol.htm and click on one of the links ‘review of religious intolerance’. Which; gives a list of some of the most intolerant countries in the world.

Another point I would like to make with regarding hypocrisy - - www.childlabor.in/child-labour-in-india.htm

And then this - http://www.unhabitat.org/content.asp?cid=4209&catid=46&typeid=8&subMenuId=0

Rank hypocrisy anybody?

As I have said before – they were laughed at and accused of being hypocrites when they signed a UN declaration on behalf of people with Special Needs – they kept to their word then.

However, some people are making it a lifelong ambition to bad mouth Qatar – let them get on with it.

I do hope however – in the spirit of good debate - if somebody ever dares to criticise their own country they have the good grace to either debate in an honest reasoned way or just keep quiet.

History has shown though they will get angry and shout racism – hypocrisy??

@ frenchieman,i believe it's pretty evident who the "politically correct,oh we live & earn here so we must turn a blind eye to ALL the hypocricy on display & say only good things & defend it at all costs" brigade is here eh?!...talk about rear end kissing!...

That question does pretty much sum up the attitude...

As for the point raised (yet again!) about other countries religious tolerance levels,to repeat myself,that isn't the point of discussion here & to state that Qatar's hypocritical statements ought not to be pointed out because other countries aren't "religiously tolerant" either is absurd to say the least,not to mention,the inability to raise a single other point in Qatar's defence apart from constantly harping on other countries tolerance levels or lack of it...

I for one am not denying that ANY other country on the planet isn't 100% religiously intolerant but does that mean we turn a blind eye to the completely hypocritical comments that were made by Qatar's representative???...

As for home countries,let's talk about mine,India,which is a 90 something % Hindu majority country,on paper however India is a "secular" country but is that always practiced? No,absoulutely not BUT is the Hindu faith & it's customs enforced on the rest of India?

Are there not centuries old churches & mosques in India?

Can i not get a good steak or a nice bowl of kheema(minced beef) because the cow is sacred to Hindus?

Can i not eat or drink in public during ramadan because (the few million) Indian muslims around me are fasting?

NO country is 100% religiously tolerant,we're talking LEVELS of tolerance here & statements being made @ UN meets IN KEEPING WITH THOSE CURRENT TOLERANCE LEVELS.

NO ONE said Qatar was the most intolerant,their tolerance level is upto them to decide,the issue that bothers me(& a lot of others) is making statements calling for religious tolerance WHILE BEING AMONGST THE MOST INTOLERANT..

As for " no one is denied the right to worship in the confines of his home." once again a statement made by an expat bubble inhabitant with a complete lack of knowledge of what REALLY happens in this town(i'm surprised,didn't all your lawyer friends tell you about it???) The people that were deported were non-Muslim expats practicing their faith in the "confines of their home" when they were arrested by state security officials to be detained then deported(without trial obviously,might explain why your lawyer friends didn't know about it either).

It does make one a laughing stock when such statements are made with a complete lack of knowledge of the goings on...for some constantly hopping up & down supporting Qatar,some people really need to FIRST get clued in to what REALLY happens here BEFORE doing the defending!

So please stop trying to divert from the discussion at hand by going on a tangent(as usual) simply because there are no valid points to support the hypocricy on display here...

@ Cabbage you want to benchmark yourself against the worst?

That is possibly the worst attitude I have ever seen.

Nobody will ever make any progress if they start doing that.

"How any person can honestly accuse Qatar of being the bigger hypocrite than any of us is beyond me."

That says it all Cabbage.

cabbage - the bashers are well known in QL.

in what ways is Qatar the most religiously intolerant?

how many natives are there who follow other religions?

no one is denied the right to worship in the confines of his home.

Thank you - I had read the speech before I posted but it was still a good point to raise.

I think what is missing here- is this pertinent point - legally most countries are not allowed to discriminate or show intolerance to another religion. Qatar at the moment is allowed to get away with it.

Here is the rub though – a lot of countries ‘have’ religious tolerance, legally and morally.

France, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Burma, Congo, Zimbabwe, China, Nepal, America, Ireland, Rwanda, Nigeria, Sweden ( they have the most Atheists ), Russia, Australia and New Zealand- just to name a few – STATE – they show religious tolerance – but THEY DO NOT.

My overwhelming impression of this post (although a good OP) - gave an awful lot of people the chance to 'bash' Qatar.

They chose not to debate hypocrisy or religious intolerance in all countries including their own. Because they can’t lose an argument nor will they accept their own culture is just as ‘bad’.

How any person can honestly accuse Qatar of being the bigger hypocrite than any of us is beyond me.

I suggest - they google their own countries hypocrisy and then tell us how better they are.

"how would you bring religious tolerance to Qatar?" someone asked...who's asking to bring religious tolerance here anyway???...That is something the citizens of this country will have to accept & adapt to if it ever were to happen & most importantly if they want to...so really,us expats can't bring the tolerance 'cos it isn't our country...

This is NOT about bringing religious tolerance here,it is about one THE MOST religiously intolerant countries on the planet(remember it's about LEVELS of tolerance NOT IF there is ANY intolerance or not) preaching religious tolerance @ the UN,simple...keep it that way...

ANY discussion such as this one can be nullified by some ignoramus stating "oh show me one country in the world that's not hypocritical or doesn't issue such statements."...???

How is that healthy debate???...of course,ANY government on the planet can be found guilty of ALL transgressions either currently or @ some point in their history,to use that as a 'valid' point is pretty sad it must be said...

Talk about being a politically correct backside kisser!!!

For those with half a brain,we're NOT discussing which countries are religiously tolerant & which aren't...the specific issue is about Qatar making such hypocritical statements @ the UN considering it's own LEVELS of religious tolerance or intolerance rather...

Sure,if one nitpicks,there's probably NO country in the world that was NEVER religiously intolerant to a particular faith/s,it seems a bit daft to bring that up as a point of discussion!

The issue here is the CURRENT GENERAL LEVEL OF RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE IN QATAR COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD...apologies for the caps but it seems there is a deliberate lack of clarity on display here...

So where does Qatar stand CURRENTLY in terms of religious tolerance on a global level & based on that abysmally low level of tolerance,should they be preaching religious tolerance of ANY KIND @ the UN?...The answer is a pretty obvious NO...

genesis you say,"

There are clear scriptures that indicates that only Abrahamic faiths can be practiced in the Arab peninsula."

Are Dubai, Sharjah & Oman not part of Arab peninsula?

There are Hindu temples in those places and even Sikh Gurudwaras in Muscat.

The temple in Sharjah is actually on an Emirati's private property.

...well, it wasn't me..........don't look at me........

Like I said, let me know how it works out for you. I am guessing the police will pick you up for insulting Christianity (a fellow Abrahamic faith).

I agree with Tinker. This is getting totally off topic and pointless. I'm off the thread (unless it gets interesting and on topic again).

sometimes, superiority complex arise! And they think they are always right! Not all, some.......

Frenchie.......go on .......we are all ears....(or eyes as I am reading).......

"Tell you what, Flor. Write it on a sign and walk up and down the Corniche and see what happens. If nothing happens, I will apologize and retract my accusation."

Tell me,my good man, is your opinion based on the how people will react when you convey it to them. Well then, it is not opinion, it is manipulation of populous (which in short is politics)...........

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1899180#comment-1907533#ixzz1PnQbZZdx

I fully understand what you say, but let's not fight other people's war for them.

Tell you what, Flor. Write it on a sign and walk up and down the Corniche and see what happens. If nothing happens, I will apologize and retract my accusation.

BTW, Tinker, I'm not Catholic!

sun--and here we go. it is a Western capitalist conspiracy. LOL.

As Genesis said, Islam has historically tolerated the Judaism and Christianity because they worship the god of Abraham. It goes back to the time of the Arab conquests. The reason why Qatar resisted was that it was on the Arabian peninsula, and the question when they were recently considering churches in Qatar was whether or not it, like KSA, should be an exception to the tolerance rule as the Arabia is the spiritual/geographic home of Islam.

TB, have you ever thought of it this way that this discrimination is the result of western political pressures and business compromises.......give it a second thought.

where have you been all the girls were missing you here to mud wrestle you.

TB, don't sound so sad. These are opinions of a selected few....QLers.... If they didn't like Hindus, no Hindu will ever get a visa.

Don't be so insulting flor1212. Even that one is low for you.

Fair enough tinker.

It goes against the faith. There are clear scriptures that indicates that only Abrahamic faiths can be practiced in the Arab peninsula.

Not to mention the security & cultural aspect of it, after all Hindus / buddhists are not a "minority" here.

I hope one day that some law is issued to allow more religious freedom. But to be honest, I don't see that happening. The locals will certainly will not allow such law to pass.

do worship idols and deities, Tinker!

it is a known fact how they comvince to have their building here! It's a return favor for a favor they got!

Fatimah.............I am glad that you are glad.......I will be double glad if France lifts ban on abayas..........I will be triple glad if Frenchie converts to Islam..........peace!...........their country, their rules............But I am most glad because I am neither a Moslem nor a Christian.............double peace.

Thank you FathimaH. We are all ambassadors of our religions; what you describe is the best way to bring in converts, and I wish everyone of all faiths would would follow it (the world would be a much better place).

Tinker--It is because Islam recognizes Judaism and Christianity as sister branches of the same faith--i.e. they all worship the God of Abraham. Islam has traditionally tolerated these groups throughout its history--well, at least sort of and officially; practice is sometimes different and open to interpretation.

To be fair Frenchie did not say "congratulate" but "just as Christians should wish their brother and sister Muslims well during Ramadan" We Muslims do wish each other for a Ramadan accepted by Allah. We also pray for each others ease in the month. In short we wish well for each other.

On that note,there's absolutely no harm in a Christian wishing us well, specially if it brings about peace and harmony between us which is what we as Muslims should want..Peace!

On a lighter note I know many people have actually converted to Islam having come to see the generosity and kindness of many Muslims especially during Ramadan..Allahu Akbar!

............and I thought people wanted to talk about religious tolerance.....???????????????????????????????

You have a point. That's why I highlighted our conatituation in my OP. In no circumstances can mass Hindus gathering be authorized legally. Thus, any religious unauthorized gathering can result in deportation.

Sorry......for spilling my (or your) beans.....I mean .....literally.....LOL

sun--my tagline (used in all my posts) is slang, but I won't criticize you for not understanding it.

On a serious note,it's a very serious thing which every Hindu who ever entered Qatar should know. Unfortunately, I never knew it till now...........what a blunder....

beans end only when you fail to show them before it ends....in short, end is not lack of bean, but lack of sense of anticipation...........again fantastic aatt.......

So, 'Ramadan karim' is a curse, or what?

I have heard of Christians being deported for spreading their faith, but not for practicing. But I am not saying it does not happen. It's not like the government has a freedom of information act and shares the data.

sun--fantastic attitude. Fortunately the Muslims with whom I enjoy iftars are less judgmental.

Philippines! Have you heard of any religion there that were discriminated?

Christianity and Judaism are perfectly legal in Qatar as they are both Abrahamic faiths. With regard to Hindus, it depends on what you regard as practicing their religion inside their own home. The government does not release statistics on deportations, so it is hard to say if your experience is indicative of all of Qatar. They certainly cannot worship openly without risking deportation. Christians on the other hand, typically receive public well wishes on Christmas from the Emir; just as Christians should wish their brother and sister Muslims well during Ramadan--signs of mutual respect and recognition of the closeness of the two faiths.

of Christians being deported because of practicing their faith here? You mistook Catholic and other religions(of the WEST) as legal here?

Christians should congratulate their brother and sister Muslims during Ramadan--signs of mutual respect and recognition of the closeness of the two faiths.

My dear friend, you never congratulate a muslim during Ramadaan. It's Eid (end of Ramadaan) which is celebrated.......... so much for the respect and recognition of closeness........... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1899180#ixzz1PmyZDkr5

Thanks adey for clearing that up. All other comments kind of become irrelevant after that.

those people who have violated the laws of the land - be they muslims, hindus or christians or any other religion have been deported.

no individual has been deported just because he has been practising his religion inside his house. I have had friends who were Hindus, Christians, Sikhs etc. They used to do their religious activities inside the confines of their homes. They were never deported.

how about the super injunctions that is there in the news nowadays.

Don't just take my word for it......as I said this is the background to the speech. Note the date and the location.

By Robert Evans

GENEVA | Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:49am IST

GENEVA (Reuters) - Islamic countries set aside their 12-year campaign to have religions protected from "defamation", allowing the U.N. Human Rights Council to approve a plan to promote religious tolerance on Thursday.

Western countries and their Latin American allies, strong opponents of the defamation concept, joined Muslim and African states in backing without vote the new approach that switches focus from protecting beliefs to protecting believers.

Since 1998, the 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) had won majority approval in the council and at the United Nations General Assembly for a series of resolutions on "combating defamation of religion".

Critics said the concept ran against international law and free speech, and left the way open for tough "blasphemy" laws like those in Pakistan which have been invoked this year by the killers of two moderate politicians in Pakistan.

They argued that it also allowed states where one religion predominates to keep religious minorities under tight control or even leave them open to forced conversion or oppression.

But Pakistan, which speaks for the OIC in the rights council, had argued that such protection against defamation was essential to defend Islam, and other religions, against criticism that caused offence to ordinary believers.

Islamic countries pointed to the publication of cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed in Denmark in 2005, which sparked anti-Western violence in the Middle East and Asia, as examples of defamatory treatment of their faith that they wanted stopped.

However, support for the fiercely-contested resolutions -- which the OIC had been seeking to have transformed into official U.N. human rights standards -- has declined in recent years.

The new three-page resolution, which emerged after discussions between U.S. and Pakistani diplomats in recent weeks, recognises that there is "intolerance, discrimination and violence" aimed at believers in all regions of the world.

Omitting any reference to "defamation", it condemns any advocacy of religious hatred that amounts to incitement to hostility or violence against believers and calls on governments to act to prevent it.

The U.S.-based Human Rights First campaign group said the new resolution was "a huge achievement because...it focuses on the protection of individuals rather than religions" and put the divisive debates on defamation behind.

However, diplomats from Islamic countries have warned the council that they could return to campaigning for an international law against religious defamation if Western countries are not seen as acting to protect believers

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/03/24/idINIndia-55861720110324

I see.

This is simply another Qatar/Muslim/Islam bashing thread – silly me – thought it was an honest debate.

Insult Qatar all you like; I have my opinions on Qatar but I am seriously not that stupid that I would publish them on a site that is supposed to promote Qatar to the entire world.

I do have my ‘gripes’ but then again I could go to any country in the world and have gripes.

In some way I do hope; those that are insulting Qatar will be insulted too by Qataris and I am witness to that :-)

Oh, but wait………………………hang on…screech of wheels ………………………..they have been challenged about their culture and their life and how ‘they are’ but they are accused of racism for challenging that and accused of ………………………not knowing the culture or country :-/

Even when presented with facts they do not accept they are hypocrites and equally intolerant of religion.

Hypocrisy

Religious intolerance

Bigotry

Racism

It’s in all of us at some level.

Stop, being smug.

Can somebody on QL give me ONE country that honestly – tolerates all religions and then prove to me that all countries are not hypocrites.

I am still waiting for some people to tell me how they would make supposed ‘religious tolerance’ work here in Qatar.

I wouldn't be too confident of these ideas holding more sway in the future as on the surface it sounds so reasonable - the 'western'democracies and South American countries were the brakes on this. Eternal vigilance is still needed.

Adey--many thanks for the clarifying post. It puts a worrying spin on things.

Fortunately, their dreams will never be realized due to the West's dominance of the UN. Yeah Western values!

You just answerd your own question: Who sets the limits on free speech?

Stealth - give me an example of speech that I could not say in the UK that does not threaten to physically harm someone. Then we can have a discussion on what is and what is not free speech.

what free speech are you talking about. This is an oft repeated discussion over here. you come and preach about free speech, from the place where you come do you think there is a complete freedom of speech? Who sets the limits on free speech?

It's rather irrelevant about about hypocracy and religious practuices here in Qatar blah blah blah

The real justification for this speech at the UN is because for the last few years the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC -50 odd Islamic majority countries in the UN) have been trying to equate religious objectionism with racism. Arguing that religious defamation breaches someones human rights - not actions just words - and that it should be made internationally illigal under the declaration of Universal Human Rights.

Now what they are really arguing for is the outlawing of objections and criticism to Islam. This feeds into the rise of the further building up of the term 'Islamaphobia'. They seem to think that by promoting this term it will rise to the same level as racism, homophobia etc.

At the Durban Conference last year the OIC's latest attempt to make an International blasphmy law part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights failed yet again because the HUMAN RIGHTS ACT deals with the rights of HUMANS not ideas. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights already protects HUMANS from being descriminated against because of their religion however idealologies( political, religious or any other) cannot have rights protecting them from criticism because they are not living sentient beings. Races, Women, Homosexuals, Children etc are people deserving of protection - ideas aren't people and as a consequence should not be protected.

Having failed for many years to have this on the UN statute book they have now slightly changed tack and now argue that it breeches someones human rights to be offended by religious criticism (ie of Islam). This new angle by the OIC is an attack on free speach, free press, the free exchange of ideas and religious liberty - as anyone COULD be offended by ANYTHING.

This is the history behind the giving of this speech - nothing to do with how Qatar behaves internally - it's all about shutting down objective criticism of Islam, and using the UN to do it.

To those constantly using the "other countries do it as well" crutch for sheer lack of a more substantial point,FYI,this website is called QATARliving.com...

Think of ANY issue in this country,be it the hypocrisy,the human rights abuse,the religious intolerance,etc. & one could find another country on the planet that's guilty of the same,sure BUT we're discussing QATAR & QATAR'S issues here...so stick to the point...or come up with something slightly more substantial than "other countries do it too"...

Thank you for diverting the thread away from the topic even more than others have done. It seems, like a few others on QL you are undaunted by facts and reality.

By targeting certain aspects of my posts (the bits you don’t like or perhaps don’t understand); and then concentrating on them - all you have demonstrated by your thinly disguised patronising tone - is that you do not have a clear understanding of the succinct points I have made.

Of course they may not match other peoples - but in debate there are always differing opinions or supposed to be.

I am so sorry you did not understand the example of my reference to Greece – this debate is not just about hypocrisy it also touches on religious intolerance – an allegation directed at Qatar – my example of Greece was to show that even in Western country’s there has been spectacular displays of religious intolerance.

There was much criticism directed at Greece at that time and they still have problems - you may want to read this letter if you can be bothered - President Talat’s letter to UN Secretary General (27.10.2006). Greece as you may not be aware has a chequered history and their voice has been heard at the UN regarding religious intolerance in their own country.

You say Qatar is as tolerant as it wants to be so let other countries also be as tolerant as they want to be. Don't try to preach if you yourself don't want to change.

Now please don't try to drag this thread somewhere else with irrelevant examples and statements and please address the issue in the thread.

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1899180#ixzz1Pjn0g68l

I don’t mind any country being as tolerant as they can afford to be – I am not being obtuse when I say I do not know what you mean by ‘Don’t try to preach if you yourself don't want to change’.

What do I want to change or don’t want to change?

I have kept to the thread and addressed the issues – if I had not – the Mod would have stepped in – my examples may be irrelevant to you; maybe that is down to you simply don’t get them.

If you are asking me to jump on the bandwagon of criticising Qatar over a speech made at the UN – to raise awareness of religious intolerance – then I will not :-)

Malaysia is handling it well. They are an Islamic country, yet there are mosques, temples, churches and shrines. Sometimes all lined up on the same street.

There are plenty of religious festivals from all faiths.

They are a truly multicultural and Islamic country.

as they say "Malaysia boleh! "

Just saying it is possible, not that all countries must do it.

oh, they are still plenty racist though.

which will deport you for practicing Islam publicly?

This thread has been quite enlightening for me. I didn't know Qatar had shady history of deporting Hindus (specifically) for practising their religion. If I knew that, I would ask double the salary...........I am sure money minded as they are will rethink about religious intolerance ........or lack of tolerance..........or intolerance under facade of tolerance.................

Cabbage firstly nobody is criticising Qatar and its policy regarding allowing or not allowing other religions so lets not try to deviate the topic towards the perfections and imperfections of any country. That is not the point. Its their country and they can set whatever rules they want.

Yes other countries have imperfections but they don't preach to the rest of the world on those issues where they themselves are full of flaws.

Preaching others about religious tolerance without doing anything to address the issue domestically maybe a step forward to you but it stinks of hypocrisy to others.

The examples you gave is irrelevant as Greece never asked other countries on a world stage to allow all religions in their respective countries.

You say Qatar is as tolerant as it wants to be so let other countries also be as tolerant as they want to be. Don't try to preach if you yourself don't want to change.

Now please don't try to drag this thread somewhere else with irrelevant examples and statements and please address the issue in the thread.

1) There is no such thing as a perfect country and as shown many times on QL there are many people who openly criticise other people’s cultures – but then don’t like it when somebody points out flaws in their own. We are all open to criticism – it’s what we do with that criticism that matters.

2) If an emerging society does take a step forward into territory that is new to them – then yes they should be applauded and encouraged. If they are not given that – they may take two steps back.

3) If you want to criticise Qatar it is your right to do so. However, one of the points I made was to answer an accusation 'that Qatar is the worst in the world when it comes to religious intolerance' – it is clearly not. May not be the best but it certainly is not the worse.

4) Qatar has got every right to preach about religious intolerance as some of us see this potential as a step in the right direction. I would not care if the King of Saudi Arabia stood up and spoke about it – at least the issue is being highlighted AND as long as he then acted on it – all the better.

Qatar made this speech and BEFORE they have had the chance to act on what they said – they are being pulled apart- just as they were when they signed the UN declaration on Special Needs. They did it then – why can’t they do the same with religion?

As Qatar is part of the UN they have every right to talk about anything they want to – just like the rest of us.

It’s what happens after the speech is delivered that matters.

SA--Agreed. Religion does not kill people. People kill people and blame their actions on religion or some other ideology.

The world according to Cabbage (at least as asserted in her last post)

1. Never criticize another country unless yours is perfect, regardless of how valid those criticisms might be. i.e. don't criticize the US for bombing civilians if at any point in your country's history the government harmed a civilian.

2. If Qatar takes one step in the right direction, let's give them credit for walking a mile.

3. So long as there is a worse country, no one should criticize Qatar.

4. Qatar has every right to preach about religious tolerance to other nations at the UN, but no one should criticize Qatar on the subject.

As I said before, I don't disagree with Qatar's right to handle its domestic affairs in the manner its rulers see fit. If that means tolerance, so be it; if that means Sharia law, then so be it. But when Qatar speaks about these issues on an INTERNATIONAL stage and voices views on how other nations should behave, then it rightly opens itself to criticism.

This group of people says the religion is the biggest killer and my reply to them is as follow:

1. How can a religion such as Islam, in which if you saved one life is like if saved all, and if you kill one life is like if you killed all, be a killer?

2. How can a religion such as Islam, which prohobit suicide, be a killer?

3. How can a religion such as Islam, which tells never cheat people and never betryd your wife, be a killer?

4. How can a religion such as Islam, which tells you to be generous and give 2.5 % of your annual income to poor people, be a killer?

5. How can a religion such as Islam, which tells you to be good to your neighbour, be a killer?

I also say to those read the holy Quran and understand it and understand it again, do the same for the sayings of our prophet Muhammed PBUH.

This group of people are really called cynical because they are attracted by the media and not knowing all the facts, please do not be pethatic like them.

I agree with you - flout the laws you get deported.

Back to Qatar and the accusation; they are hypocrites for speaking at the UN.

They are NOT the only country in the world to show ‘hypocrisy’ at the UN. A few years ago a certain country that has one of the most documented poverty and child slavery issues stood up and made a speech about child slavery and poverty. That country has done very little to tackle their own issues.

A few years ago Qatar signed a UN declaration regarding the support and education of children and people with disabilities. They were laughed at and called hypocrites then.

Since then – Qatar has made massive steps in the right direction and schools are being built – special needs educators are being bought into the country and massive amounts of money is being spent to help the society itself recognise and accept disabilities. So – perhaps by making this speech they are on the right track and change is around the corner.

Qatar is NOT the worse country in the world that displays religious intolerance – I think you will find that Saudi Arabia and Israel are amongst the worst.

Lots of Western countries have struggled with religious tolerance – until a few decades ago you could only be a member of the Greek Orthodox Religion and live in Greece. As they are amongst one of the oldest civilisations and cultures in the world – you would have thought they would have been more tolerant:-/

Tolerance is something you allow when you may not necessarily agree with it yourself. For a young Muslim country they are as tolerant as they want to be at this moment in time.

In countries where different religions are ‘tolerated’ – they are done so because those religions are part of that country’s history and the evolution of that country and legally we are not allowed to be intolerant. Even so – when you see churches, temples, shrines and mosques being razed to the ground it does not smack of tolerance to me.

Perhaps we need to lead by example and as soon as we display true tolerance we can then honestly look at Qatar and say – ‘see religious tolerance’ does work.

I suggest as always to detractors and nit pickers – bring your own intolerant hypocritical country to task before picking on another.

@ s_isale,fair enough my friend,but again,that isn't the topic of discussion here!...a country,ANY country with such laws should NOT be preaching "religious tolerance" to ANYONE,let alone @ the UN...either keep the intolerance & the laws for it & don't preach or change the laws,get tolerant themselves,THEN preach,fair enough?...

you flout the laws, you get deported.

nice rant but completely off topic,the issue under discussion here is NOT about Qatar changing it's policies @ home,it is about them NOT allowing religious freedom @ home YET preaching @ a UN human right's conference no less about "curbing religious intolerance"??? one of THE MOST religiously intolerant countries on the PLANET "calls for measures to counter religious intolerance"???...

I'm Christian & there is a church complex in this country so wrong again there,an assumption is the mother of all f%&^ups...

This is NOT about Qatar allowing a "shrine" to be built for every religion/sect, this is NOT about people practicing THEIR religion in the privacy of THEIR homes being arrested & deported,it IS about a country that has such an obvious complete lack of religious freedom having the audacity to "call for measures against religious intolerance." It's not rocket science now is it?...practice what you preach...or don't preach...in this case,to pander to the pathetic rear end kissing expat losers on here,fine,don't build any "shrines",don't allow ANY religious freedom to ANY non-Muslims but then DO NOT ALSO go out there & "call for measures to curb religious intolerance" when you yourself are amongst those MOST intolerant...

So please,save the cliched spiels about "oh should Qatar build a shrine to all religions?" No,but if they don't allow it,they shouldn't be "calling for measures to counter religious intolerance"...a country that is "still emerging need not pander to all religions" but far from "pandering to all religions",when it does not give residents of the country freedom to practice their own religion EVEN WITHOUT a "shrine" or a "building",they SHOULD NOT be "calling for measures to counter religious intolerance" @ a UN human rights meet...

As it has been made obvious in the past,there is a LOT going on Qatar that a LOT of expats have no clue about,YET they gladly & repeatedly put their foot in their mouth by claiming "i have yet to speak to ONE person in Qatar blah blah" please save it,you & the people you talk to inhabit a bubble,the reality of this country is OUTSIDE that bubble!..."(and i know a few lawyers)" nice one! whoever said lawyers or a courtroom had ANYTHING to do with the proceedings???...oh right,in 'the bubble' we live in a civil,democratic society where one has "rights" right?! hate to burst your bubble but no there is no "i want to talk to my lawyer", "i want my one phone call", "i'm not signing anything without my lawyer present" scenario(like in the movies eh?!) ROTFL! :)...how about this for a more real scenario?...knock on door by plainclothes "state security" officers,handcuffed,driven off in unmarked cars to the detention centre,jailed,deportation papers processed in 24-48 hrs.,passport stamped banning reentry into country,driven directly to aircraft in handcuffs,put on flight,goodbye...no lawyers or courtrooms or bail hearings or plea bargains in there,sorry!..."i know a few lawyers"! good laugh first thing in the morning,thank you! :)...

Yes they have the right to not allow other religions of their choice in Qatar but if you are not tolerant then how can you ask the rest of the world to become tolerant?

Read my original posts, Cabbage. I don't have a problem with how Qatar handles religious freedom WITHIN its own country. I am a big believer in national sovereignty. My issue is that I think it is poor form for Qatar to draw attention to itself internationally in this way (e.g. better to follow the form of China). Their right to do so, but a bad decision IMOI.

At the same time, I do think it odd of you to wax lovingly about religious freedom here. Qatar is among the least religiously tolerant nations on earth, and looks liberal only next to Saudi. But you're welcome to your opinion. Do you prefer grape or strawberry flavor kool-aid?

Cabbage there used to be a temple of sorts earlier in Qatar. Not an official structure but a place where you can gather to celebrate your festivals and all. One day they were all deported for practicing Hinduism here. In how many countries are you thrown out for practicing your religion?

How many countries have laws where you can be sent to prison for eating or drinking during Ramadan?

Not many and those that do don't ask for religious tolerance at a global scale. They keep their head down and avoid talking about the issue in front of others.

isnt the individual allowed to practise his religion in his place of residence?

I am so very wrong and I eagerly await your answers to the following points -

You tell me how you would bring the acceptance and tolerance of all religions to Qatar.

How would it work?

What festivals would you allow?

How would that link into what the locals celebrate?

Where would you put all the different shrines, churches and buildings when let’s face it in some countries they are happily pulling each other’s buildings down as they are ‘in the wrong area’?

How you would work into a young country and its non-Gregorian calendar the holidays for Lent, Christmas, Passover or Diwali?

There are the big Hindu holy days (Diwali, Dussehra) and those in Islam's calendar (Eid-ul-Fitr, Muharram); you get a day off for Buddha's birthday and also for the biggest Christian holy days. If you're Sikh or Jain or Parsi, there's a holiday for you. And if the holy day you want to mark isn't on the main list, there's also a secondary list of so-called "restricted holidays" from which each person can choose a limited number every year. Throw in secular days like this week's national holiday marking the birth of Mahatma Gandhi, and India has some 17 official holidays a year plus dozens of others that people can choose to observe. (The U.S. has 10.) The World Economic Forum says that India, an emerging economic powerhouse, actually has one of the world's shortest average working years.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1668481,00.html#ixzz1PfBOcL9l

And that is just one part of the world. Put that with the fact already Qatar loses two DAYS of the business week – Friday a day off and our start of the week is Sunday how could they possibly cope with all the religious holidays the rest of the world has?

Couple that to how we celebrate our holidays – they see most of them as at best against their belief system – just be very grateful you can do so much on your compound and there are lanterns, Easter eggs, tinsel, Christmas Trees etc for sale.

What do you want – to force yourself out of a job for your religion that ‘is not part of this world yet’?

Get real – the Gulf is Islamic for the time being.

Either pick - making money or following your religion. AT this moment in time – both are not possible for some.

So over to you both – outline how you would bring religious tolerance and acceptance to Qatar?

Who are you kidding Cabbage?

Blah blah blah, just one big apology for Qatar. You can't possibly believe all what you wrote. Are you gunning for a job in the ministry of propaganda? ROFL.

What are you on about?

Are you saying because they go to the UN to talk about religious intolerance they are hypocritical?

Have you ever considered for one moment they may have gone there for it be said to their own in an indirect way? In other words – we need to lighten up and accept more religions? Just a thought!

How many countries do you know that have fought over the right for a religion. Hell, most wars have had religion at the heart of them. There is religious intolerance in ALL countries of the world.

What about all the other members of the UN and go and talk hypocritical ball hocks?

DO you honestly think that a country that is still emerging should pander to ALL religions?

There are hundreds if not thousands of different religions. For the love of god there is one called the 'The Temple of the Vampire'. Should they be allowed to come here? Over to you Dracula;-/

If you are naffed off because your 'religion' is not allowed to build a church/temple/shrine etc then bad luck.

If you are so religious and cannot live without or unable to practice your religion without visiting a 'building' don't come here.

I have yet to speak to ONE person here in Qatar - that has yet heard of anybody being deported because they practiced their religion in the place designated for that purpose. (And I know a few Lawyers.)

However, if somebody knows it is illegal to hold a meeting- gathering or religious study group in a non designated area, then I am sorry - they have broken the law of the land they are in and they deserve all they get.

We are not at home people – we are guests here and we live and work by their rules. Not saying it is right – but hey we are ready to take their money:-/

What do you want more – to feed, clothe and home your family or visit a building that really does not reflect on your deep abiding faith?

@ genesis,expats have been deported overnight for practicing THEIR religion,with other expats of THEIR faith,in the privacy of THEIR homes...ANY country with such an abysmal record of tolerance should DEFINITELY not be even attending a UN human rights meet,let alone making such statements when their own backyard is the way it is...

Please don't get me wrong here,yes Qatar is an Arab country that follows Islam & Shariah law,fair enough,but they really shouldn't be going around making statements about religious tolerance when there is none whatsoever(or hardly any) in their own country...fair enough?...

It seems like a pretty lame argument to state things like "oh should Qatar now allow building of ALL religious shrines?", "people should know the situation in Qatar before coming here." "i chose not to go to this city because there are no mosques or halal food"???...ridiculous & that's putting it mildly...

Freedom of religion is not all about shrines to a particular sect or a religion,it is about AT LEAST being allowed to practice your religion along with others who share your faith,in the privacy of your home without worrying about state security officials breaking your door down & leading you out in handcuffs,first to the detention centre swiftly followed by deportation,or is even that too much too ask??? This question is to the locals & the blind, rear-end k*&%ing expats who see nothing wrong with this situation...

These guys must be really clueless if they don't realize what a laughing stock they must be on the international stage by making statements like this...

Well put Frenchie,there is a thing or two this lot can learn from the Chinese for sure...

Talk about being clueless AND hypocritical...

'So it's Damned if it does, doomed if it doesn't '--Exactly. So do what the Chinese do on these sorts of issues--stay silent until affects you at home. Let the attention and spotlight go to someone else. Otherwise it invites criticism.

So it's Damned if it does, doomed if it doesn't :)

I don't see any harm in abiding to UN resolutions & taking an initiative. A least that would be a commitement to such freedoms to some extent

Genesis--initiative or lead, does not matter. My comments still apply.

No country has a spotless record on the environment either. So does that mean we should all give up and applaud the world's worst polluters to take the lead/initiative on how to protect the world? Give me a break.

Qatar's best option when it comes to matters of global religious freedom is to follow the Chinese lead: keep quiet on the grounds that its own religious intolerance is a matter of domestic rather than international concern. Why draw attention? When I see such things (like the world cup fiasco, gun-running to Libya, troops in Bahrain), it just reminds me of how amateurish Qatar is on the international stage. I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with what the government is trying to accomplish in all these cases, but the method and form needs more than a little finesse.

This one line from Adeys post sums it all up "attempt to misuse the U.N. to legitimize blasphemy laws, thereby restricting freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and freedom of the press"

EMC-12 - what are you ranting on about? hindus and buddhists who come here are not asking for any religious freedoms. The ones who come here are ready to compromise on their beliefs, and faith doesn't feature in a big way in their day to day living. As you rightly said, people with strong religious feelings do not come here at all in the first place. This discussion is about the hypocrisy of calling out for religious tolerance, and not about expats coming here and whinging about intolerance. Bottom line being, we don't really care, but when we read statements like this we like to shout hypocrite and have a good laugh.

What makes you think Qatar is taking a lead rather than just taking an reform steps.

Plus name me one country ( other than Canada) that has a spotless religious freedom

It's only funny to those with a dark sense of of humor Tinkerbell ;-)

I agree with mandi. Religious tolerance has to go hand-in-hand with religious freedom.

While I firmly believe Qatar has the sovereign right to dictate rules regarding religious worship in its own state, I find it odd (if not ironic) that it would want to take the lead on religious resolutions for tolerance in the UN, thus exposing itself to enormous criticisms. Once again Qatar is having a hard time seeing the wood for the trees. I hope they get better at international diplomacy; some of this stuff is cringe worthy.

What they mean my religious tolerance is "tolerate our hatred towards your religion" LOL!

It is counter to human rights and freedom of expression - a deeply regressive step.

We, the undersigned non-governmental organizations are

Deeply concerned by the pervasive and mounting campaign by the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) to produce U.N. resolutions, declarations, and world conferences that propagate the concept of “defamation of religions,” a concept having no basis in domestic or international law, and which would alter the very meaning of human rights, which protect individuals from harm, but not beliefs from critical inquiry;

Deeply concerned by the attempt to misuse the U.N. to legitimize blasphemy laws, thereby restricting freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and freedom of the press;

Deeply concerned that “defamation of religions” resolutions may be used in certain countries to silence and intimidate human rights activists, religious dissenters, and other independent voices.

more here:http://www.cadal.org/institutional/nota.asp?id_nota=2790

Signed, amongst200 others, by:

Doha Centre for Media Freedom (Qatar)

Muslim Council of Canada

The International Quranic Center (IQC)

Christian Solidarity Worldwide (CSW

American Islamic Congress

World Jewish Congress

International Association for the Defense of Religious Liberty

Maharat Foundation (Lebanon)

Organisation against Women’s Discrimination (Iran)

Ahmadiyya Community

National Union of Somali Journalists (NUSOJ)

European Union of Jewish Students

The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention

Media Watch (Bangladesh)

Arabic Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI-Egypt)

Satya Shodhak Sabha, Gujerat (India)

Arab Archives Institute (AAI-Jordan)

Algerian Centre for the Defence and Promotion of Press Freedom (CALP)

Syria Reform Party

International Christian Concern

Evangelical Alliance UK

Religious Freedom Coalition

Bahrain Center for Human Rights (BCHR)

Jewish Human Rights Coalition (UK)

All India Christian Council

American Islamic Forum for Democracy

Foundation for Democracy in Iran

Middle East Christian Committee (MASREQ)

Society for Humanistic Judaism

There is no religious tolerance in Qatar and I am sure the audience was having a laugh when he was making this speech.

There are four Christian church buildings here in Qatar - Roman Catholic, Orthodox, an Indian protestant center and an Anglican center. These host dozens of congregations who meet by denominational, worship style and language preferences. What I find interesting in this article is that in order to promote religious tolerance the speaker was advocating a limit on religious speech. I tend to think they go hand-in-hand, myself.

Mandi

i just dont get it why religion is always an issue...can we just all unite as we are all created equal by GOD.

Is this not just another tweeter who moans about anything just for moaning’s sake?

Religious tolerance has very little to do with buildings. It is the acceptance and understanding of other faiths but this does not mean the automatic building off shrines or churches.

If a person has faith; they do not need a building or shrine to have or keep that faith. If people are SO religious they would know before coming here – it could be a struggle to meet in a faith based building.

Qatar does accept there are other religions but if it were to allow the erection of ALL religious buildings; there could be real problems - not from the locals themselves but from others who in their own countries try and destroy other people’s places of worship.

They could be faced with the real problem of Orthodox Christian against another brand of Christianity - a synagogue over here (rofl) . Do all the wonderful colourful religions in India get on? Do the Coptic’s in Egypt get discriminated against? There is a Roman Catholic Church over here I think ; should there be a Church of England Church, Methodist Chapel, Mormon and Jehovah Witness Temples?

They have seen and witnessed the turmoil that comes with other religions so are they right to keep a lid on it all.

Qatar is an Islamic country and Islam is a lovely religion (like others) however some of the people that ‘follow it’ are flawed. Perhaps in some ways – they are mindful they need to let other people know how good Islam is before they allow others in.

When other religions and the people that follow them behave in a civilised way; they may get let in to a country that is struggling with the world’s perception of Islam. Why invite trouble from other religions when your own religion has bad press?

You also have to think about this – are they also afraid that their own people may be swayed towards another religion?

Let them sort out their own ‘problems’ first and let’s be grateful we can albeit in a very small way still bear the marks of what we have faith in. This is NOT our country and we have to accept their rules.

Religious tolerance definition can differ from a country to another 

When it comes to Qatar , our constitution first article clearly states "Qatar is an independent Arab state. Islam is the State’s religion and the Islamic Shariah is the main source of its legislations".

abiding to UN's UDHR, Qatar had undergone many procedures &  issued many laws in the past few years to allow religious freedom to some extent despite the religious sole cultural  nature of its citizens.

Taking in consideration how fast those measure were taken, I think Qatar will allow more religious freedom gradually as long its consistent to our constitution

And yet these Hindus go to extreme to come here(taking loans, bribing agents,lowballing at job interviews). This baffles me.I was offered job in a country where there was no Halal food and no mosque and for a better salary than here. I refused and preferred Qatar. Even in London, where there are mosques and some places where I could find Halal food,still I preferred to come to Qatar where I feel more free to practice my religion.

If these Hindus or Buddhist truly had so much concerns/love about practising their religion freely and knew it would be a living hell to practice their faith here, why come here? As for those who are here and complain about it, why are you still here? Are you not compromising your faith for money? Isn't the rest of the world bigger than Qatar for these Hindus and Buddhists or is it smaller?

Qatar is right to underline that there is an increasing need to take effective measures to counter religious intolerance and hatred and incitement by some extremist political currents which distort the reputation of religions, especially Islam, by provoking the feelings of many millions of Muslims across the world to harm the sanctity of prophets, sacred sites and religious symbols and books.

In the last 20 years or more, how many times have the Vedas of the Hindus been treated a rubbish. How many times has the Hindu god Rama or the elephant-head god been taken as object of ridicule?

It is a fact that in current times religious intolerance and hatred and incitement by some extremist political groups towards Islam is greatest than towards any other religion. Many hate threads abounds here in QL itself.

'... distort the reputation of religions, ESPECIALLY Islam...'

End of quote. Just wanted to emphasize the word in capital letters.

gadarene

i second to ur first voice. ;)

We call ourselves public servants but I'll tell you this: we as public servants must set an example for the rest of the nation. It is hypocritical for the public official to admonish and exhort the people to uphold the common good.

are you surprised?! :)