Sweden in grip of Islam

Ohk... thx to PM we are back to square one.... from where we had reached after discussing this... niways....

PMs correct about the kind of peple who immigrate and there importance in present global village.

your points too are true. And as true as the definition of Democracy.

Problem happens in implementation. These small ifs and Buts create issues....

Colonialism is of course not a very pleasant looking history, but then so is sponsorship- the new age slavery.

We are living it.

___________________________________________

Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol

True... but thing is..... in general this migration happens in such a natural speed.. dead slow.... which is not noticed.. unless the results are shown in day to day leaving.....

And hence if the migration is a issue of concern..... The sooner it is resolved the better... as with time.... you never know where is it going and what shall be the result in near future of the same.... :)

___________________________________________

Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol

Ashwin..

the revenge or pay back time is not as you understood though...it is not that migrants take revenge and migrate to take revenge..NO..Ofcourse European culture will be affected by muslims residing there..this is natural..but you never know where things end at..or how much escalation there will be you know..

Some Europeans, as can be seen from this thread, are concerned on Muslims living in Europe, which I understand. However, all these happening naturally as an effect to the colonisation which caused it..

Aah........ Ok If I had put this in different words...

Colonization had developed a gateway between the two countries... and of course resources which one has in abundance n other is in scarce shall be distributed....anything...

And second reason is acceptability of each other ....

These factors are major reasons for the Migration...

It is not about the revenge....

The people who migrate do not do so for revenge.. for God sake.. it is necessity... and often also a desire to see something new....

Revenge or pay time are terms coined by people after seeing the localities not feeling comfortable with migrants anymore..... Jus for sake of satisfying there pseudo-ego may be...

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Ashwin..

this is not the case and i don't think this is relevant anyway..

importing cheap labore is totally different issue although it has some similarities..

it is not about revenge too..it just happens for pursuit of personal welfare which was caused by lack of stability caused by colonisation and kidnapping thier natural resources and land unity.

CBD ... Bulls EYE ONCE AGAIN......

If we observe the trend.. the developed countries have maximum migrants from the countries they had colonized once.... And it is not tht the then colonies are taking a revenge in this way..

For cheap labour or man power... whtever the reason may be...... the so called developed nations had promoted and facilitated majority of the Migrations...

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Dear all,

I see the concern..and i understand why europeans may not like it..

now i have the following questions:

1- should not we be concerned when some American/European politicians try to impose thier values on us?

Thanks but no thank!

2- Do you think migration of all muslims to Europe is NOT a function of Western colonisation over the muslim world? whre western colonisation divided up the land and left trouble and instability wherever they appeared?

example:

France is full of Algerians. Does this not relate to 130 years of occupation?

How many Pakistanis are in UK? is this not a function of british occupation?

Buttom line, the argument of stating if muslims do not like Europe they should leave, is just not acceptable.

Muslims paid thier dues to live in Europe by being recruited to defend the liberity of Europe against Europeans themselves, Europeans started WWI & WWII, as well as pay back time for crimes of Europeans through colonisation.

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

May peace be upon you

All of us (civilized or not, easterners or westerners) are humans. We all have the qualities of human beings and the flaws of humans as well.

So,

1- Whomever you are, and whatever your argument is, there is an equivalent argument on the opposite side.

*********mirror effect

2- If you studied history, you'll notice that all countries were at least once a superpower. Therefore, difference in the level of "civilization" attained is not due to supremacy of the white or any other ethnicity (sorry to disappoint you)

*********has to do more with your environment/circumstances

3- Europeans who fear that Islam will take over their countries, had the same fear regarding secularism 100 years ago (approx.). Now, most of them are secular countries with christian origins, defending secularism against Islam.

Throughout history, Europeans feared/hated Jews. Guess who is controlling Europe today?!

*********history repeats itself

4- Please stop for a minute and think:

How true is the stereotype Muslim (in Hollywood movies) compared to what you see in Doha?

It is the SAME Hollywood that previously created the "red Indians", "bad tough Germans", "brutal bad Soviets" , and the "mafiaman Italian" stereotypes.

*********please do not generalize.

5- Ever heard of the term "media manipulation"? It applies to ALL contries. If you think otherwise, refer to point 1.

*********welcome to the matrix !!

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

May peace be upon you

Yes i read it, loved the Cavern's allegory.

Btw, airsupply was banned again :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

You have read "THE REPUBLIC"???

the Utopia he talks about????

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Ashwin: Yes it is inspired by him :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Ha ha ha ...

He is fun to have around..... :)

Hey is your nick inspired by - Plato the Philosopher n author of "the Republic"

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Ashwin: That's the only nick that he has used that i was able to remember, he also used the nick of Abu Abu, he needs to be enlightened. Everybody here knows him, he often says that the Holocaust never happened, even got banned 2x for discussing that matter with me :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Beeseh I agree with you... whtver you have mentioned makes you feel like as if any a Jail...

but besides these... what Eats me more... is...

I cannot leave this country on my free will...

Not tht I want to or I don like it here... but I should have freedom to leave when I feel like.....

Should not need a letter from Sponsor...

And this sponsor thing is Tagged as New Age Slavery...

No matter what designation wht Perks enjoyed... but we all are..... Sponsored here...

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Even this name of AirSupply is next to impossible for me to pronounce and he is out again...... :) I mean In...

This guy is a big time bounced Check... bouncing like a Gummy Bear ;; lol....

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Airsupply: No, even before reverting i didn't drink any alcoholic drinks.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

I don't believe it!

But let me ask you; when you were a "spiritist", didn't you suffer from annoying hic-ups?

No, i don't fear the spirits, they also obey to Allah. You may not belive but i do wish tha He enlightens your path and allows you to see the light. Ignore the darkness and turn your eyes to Allah, he'll forgive you.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Careful! Spirits are flammable, and need a license!

Sorry to inform you but even before i revert i wasn't a christian but a spiritist.

The best advise i can give you, airsupply, is, open your heart and let it overflow with love, open your heart to Allah, i 'm sure that if you do it Allah will show you how it feals good.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

”Beeseh: I'm muslim…”

Yet:

”I’m not sure if the Qur'an also talks about…”

I think you'd have done Islam a favor, having remained as a catholic

Hi airsupply

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Yeah I loved that show, too!

"This is a family-oriented site."

I know! The father-daughter thing I mentioned, is also family!

"he is history right now!"

هستوري مين يابا؟

lol PM, i wonder what will be his new nick :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

ashwindoke, I agree that too much of something is bad. But here we have too much control over ppl's lives. I can't really feel well in a country where I know that I'm nobody and any national can get me deported any time (and this is by far not the worst they can do to us...) We are not free to read what we want, to open websites we want (no, not just THOSE websites. I can't open many broadcasting or neutral websites either and why is then www.qatarsuck.com blocked if it's a free country?), we can't eat and drink what I want, wear clothes we like to wear at home. My whole life has to change to be able to survive here...

PM..... he is out....

No question of Control........

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

ashwindok: lol, don't worry, soon he'll get a new nick and will be saying the same

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

damn..... before I could learn how he pronounced his username..... :(

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

he is history right now!

check his profile! :)

Beeseh.......... :)

Misuse of Freedom is more dangerous...... Don you agree on tht at least,,,,,

Ohk me too a great fan of Beer n looking at chicks in bikini....

now do you agree with the 1st line .... :) ???

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

hi, sputnik aka Airsupply

Mind your language,EsYyCmdcer aka Airsupply aka Sputnik.

This is a family-oriented site.

Please edit the previous post.

Thanks.

Beeseh: Airsupply is really as we have been telling you, he's always getting banned due to the replies he gives.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Airsupply: I'm the one who's furious with the somali girl that got raped and later killed by somali "moral guardians" when she dennounced the event.

As a muslim, it offends me that someone tries to replace Allah on judging us based on what we may think it will happen in the Afterlife.

Not sure if the Qur'an also talks about Jesus (Isa) words saying: "To God what belongs to God and to Caeser what belongs to Caeser".

Truthfulvisitor: Thanks for your wise reply, think it's really enlightning and i couldn't agree more with your words.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

My sympathy then.........

truthfulvisitor - Hey for tht Typing marathon.... phoof...

And I choose the side of Morality to be in place....

I mean... the accepted culture of the country....

Changes are bound to happen.. but its better when it happens at natural pace... you know the unnoticed way...

Relating Freedom to bikinis freeked me out.. honestly....

If freedom is to be yourself... it is freedom to convey tht I don like wht you doin.......

But the way it to be done and implemented is important...

Compelling others to do what I know is correct is Dictatorship....

Making them understand wht they doing is wrong... n then they stop it.. thts freedom... I too shall avoid indulging into stuff which I might have liked as a natural instinct but m convinced tht it is wrong...

I mean .. in short.... first we ll have to make people potent enough to handle freedom.. and then to be given....

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

did my words about the father-daughter rape, bring any bad memories?

but I am not Qatari, shitty lady!

Supposing I was Egyptian...or Chinese, then 90% of your above claims are lies....which makes you a typical western case (ignorance + lying)

:-)

if the western ppl wouldn't have come here to make money from the oil you're sitting on you'd still wander the dessert on your camels. You're driving cars made by and in the West, your schools are managed by western staff, your senior management and thinking staff is western, your hospitals got stuff from the West, IT and other devices come from the West as well and the list goes on. Can you pls tell me one thing in your office that's originally from Qatar meaning invented and made by a Qatari national? Stop throwing shit on the West! You're leaning out of the window way too far...

but the wave that is filling you with hatred because it's covering Sweden & Europe day after day, it will soon cover your favorit States.

The more they fight this wave, the bigger & stronger it gets. Eat your heart out!

now OFFICIALLY gone tits up.

"My friends who migrated to US are now more practical muslims than fanatics"

Is the desire to live according to the Sheriaa of the Quran, and the Sunnah of the Prophet, considered "fanatic", while wearing a bikini with a head scarf on the beach, considered "practical"?

Or is calling for the liberation of all Muslim lands from foreign occupation/invasion, considerede "fanatic", while being a traitor & supporting the invader, considered "practical"?

If this is what you mean, then you are proving to us the disadvantages of migrating to the US

you follow their rules and customs. Nobody has the right to force anything on anybody. Come, be accepeted, live your lifeand be who you want to be but don't try and and change that civilisation.

I have no problems with anybody living in OZ but you are in Oz so live like one of us without breaking your own moral code, but don't make us bend over and take it up the a** for you because we wont be like you.

After that verbose lecture of mine, I suppose my point in discussing all this is:

Can all those involved in these threads. please, perhaps take these three factual differences onboard, instead of the usual slanging and insulting which seems to have two sides:

One side demands and loudly shouts for the right to walk around Villaggio with their breasts popping out, gin and tonic in one hand a bacon sandwich in the other

The other side is so appalled by the moral depravity of that scary, wicked, horrible place called the "west" (populated by "westerns"!!) that they cannot get past the horror of the statistics about 'how many women are raped every minute in USA! is that what you call freedom?!?!?!' and comments like 'i just don't understand why you don't want to execute homosexuals and adulterers by stoning! honestly! to me, that just makes no sense whatsoever' ...

Seems to me without this, this arguing will last for eternity. And we'll still be trading the same old insults at the other side..

I think you misunderstand - ashwindoke - Beeseh is not advocating the compulsory wearing of bikinis or drinking of beer. It is about the "freedom" - ability - to wear clothing, if she so desires to, without some law or rule being placed against it by the State unless there is actually some harm in her action. The possibility for her to make these kind of choices is what we are loosely and - very problematically - calling "freedom".

[Of course, the feminists would call it no "freedom" at all (the desire to offer oneself as an oppressed subaltern for the pleasure of all men) but that is getting away from the point]

Likewise, "freedom" of speech - again a difficult way of describing as it implies absolutist freedom when there are of course some restrictions - is restriced, but based around the idea of causing harm to others, such as shouting fire in the crowded theatre.

This talk of "freedom" which some people sensationally argue means the power to do anything you like (such as rape women every 1.3 seconds in USA!!! girl have a baby at age 11!!! have adulterous sex every night!!! homosexual sex taking place!!! drink alcohol!!!) is in fact restricted, morally, but not legally. Thus noone thinks it is "right" or "wholesome" to do these things, but by doing them one cannot be criminalised. (apart from the rape, obviously)

At the heart of this "freedom" idea and all of secularism are these wonderful - or horrific - facts (depending on your point of view):

1) For something to be criminalised as wrong, it must cause actual real harm to another person or group or entity - real tangible harm, not theoretical, moral or eschatological (ie. in the Afterlife) - it must be harmful in this world, the next world is irrelevant;

2) The community of people in society, alone, will be the judge of what is right and wrong;

3) Laws and norms are static and relative, not permanent and fixed; at the heart of this is the fact that situations develop which cannot readily be categorised as harmful or not harmful, and something which is harmless today might not have been in a different context 500 years ago.

Of course the religious fundamentalist's charter is the precise opposite of these three things; thus much of the bitter argument on these threads is essentially by those who either support, or oppose these three principles. Islam is largely seen as opposing, and the "west" (whatever on earth THAT 'other' actually is) absolutely supports it.

-------------

"let's slip out of these wet clothes and into a dry martini" Mae West

Beeseh -

The way you defined a free country.... its better then to live in a staunch religious country.. any religion.. if you abide to the guidelines strictly is Damn Strict...

Drinking and bikini is not freedom.. you talk about tht bcoz of deprivation I guess...

A hungry would see freedom is food.. A thirsty in Water...

But a true freedom is balance of all..

Too much of freedom and you are spoiled.. so with too many restrictions..

Why you think we have both Rights n Duties in Democracy.... Both are essential...

To live as you like but not disturbing others,...

Drinking in open if you think is freedom... then it should not affect others is your responsibility...

As it is diff to implement we have.. drink but not in public n not to drive...

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

Hear Hear Brit.

____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

This thread seems to have degenerated as usual ..

Hitler massacred Jews , so is his religion to be blamed.

German paedophiles are active in Sri Lanka and Thailand. So is religion to blame?

As far as free country goes, its all relative. The UK has the highest number of CCTV cameras tracking citizens and the Echelon Project in England evesdrops on all cellular and email traffic in Europe.

Lets keep it realistic..

:) Straight jackets looks interesting :D

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Bikinis on the beaches here, no problem. Not many women walk down the street in Canada in bikinis either, kind of a time and place for everything. Swimwear for the beach, underwear for under your clothes, straight jackets for the asylum.

____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Dear Amoud, lol, i bet temperatures there are as hot as hell, just that if a girl would walk in a bikini there...;)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

You need to be fully loaded with daggers and stones in your pocket so when ever you see any one stalking you just start running towards them holding the dagger

definition of a free country: no CID spying on you, no "morality police" harassing you, nobody caring what you do unless it's illegal or harms others. Here I can't even go downstairs without all those permanently horny men trying to hit on me. Qataris included. Actually, those are the worst of all coz they think in their country everything belongs to them. Yuck! And that's what they call freedom? Where is freedom of speech? Or media? Why is it that nobody knew about the case of the pedophile prince who btw was set free when handed over to Qatar violating international law? Oh yeah, I forgot, Qatar doesn't care about human rights not international agreements... Well, as we say it at home, Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall..... Pride goes before a fall.....

Lol, hot in Lisbon? I was there last summer and it wasnt that hot to be honest, you gotta try living in the gulf ;)

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

lol Amoud, it's so hot that you'll use it yourself without anyone caring about it, if it isn't imposed it's already some sort of liberty. Not all countries are as open minded as Portugal or Holland :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Hey Ayman, I wasnt referring to punishment, I was asking if this is indeed how a free country is defined thats all. I think it is a little oppressing to feel I need to take it off just as it is construed as oppressed to have to keep it all on. I was searching for a better argument.

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

"Does wearing abikini walking down the street coonstitute a free or "non-islamic" society? I think not."

Dear Amoud, in Portugal, during summer, no one will punish you if you walk down the street in bikini :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Beesh, did you not say

"May I remind you of the pedophile Qatari prince raping little boys and girls in the Czech Republic? I guess he's supposed to be religious too. What is his religion then? I don't want to attack of offend anyone but if you offend my religion don't expect me to be silent"

loong before Mohanned ever got into the thread?

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

it was Mohannad's statement that pedophilia is in a way connected to religion. And yes, I know wine is available on Qatar but only if you have a permit and only at QDC. Here I go to the next better shop and get quality wine. What a difference a time zone makes...

Platao, you seem to know good wines. Porto is very fine, will try to get one in Qatar. But I have to say the quality of drinks at QDC is not really what it's supposed to be! Yet my favourite is ice wine, mmm... delicious!

Beesh, all I can say is... what a bunch of nonesense.

No religion condones pedophelia, it happens in all religions and also by religious leaders lest we not forget.

Does wearing abikini walking down the street coonstitute a free or "non-islamic" society? I think not. And just for reference, drinking on your front lawn is iilegal in Canada, which to my recollection (I may be out of date, I havent been there for 4 months) is not an Islamic state but rather a democracy.

Wine is available in Qatar, have you been here long?

____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Beeseh, as a portuguese, let me advise you to drink Porto or Madeira wine :) No, i don't drink alcoholic drinks :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

that's good news! So soon wine's available in Qatar? Mmm, I prefer red one, Australian pls...

Beeseh: Probably, ;)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Slim, your theory with majority... mmm... interesting... there are maybe 150.000 nationals in Qatar and many many many expats, many of them Christians. Does it mean that Qatar is becoming a Christian democratic country now? Wow!

"All religions are reforming, beliefs are no longer same. "

Azam: Wise words. :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Some of your points / findings are valid, but they do not neccessarily mean that we are in a midst of an Islamic revolution.

having worked in deprived areas of the UK and with minority grouos, I take the comment regarding 74 per cent of those aged 16 to 24 prefer Muslim women to wear the veil, compared with only 28 per cent of over 55s with a pinch of salt.

As far as education is concerned, I went to a C or E school and I have Jewish friends whose children attend a Jewish school. No harm in parents "prefering" their children to go to a religiously affiliated school.

I would agree that in our haste to be Politically Correct, the government has failed to address the "preachers of hate".

PM - what we are seeing in west is 'rebellion' by some new generations of muslims, their parents generally secular in nature, grateful of coming to the west to escape something.

Young groups of influencable men, who they see they parents as failing islam are getting 'radicalised'.

I know the source is the mail which is right wing but they quote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-432075/Multiculturalism-drives-young-Muslims-shun-British-values.html

"13 per cent of young Muslims said they "admired" organisations such as Al Qaeda which are prepared to "fight the West"."

The poll found that just 19 per cent of Muslims over 55 would prefer to send their children to Islamic state schools. That increased to 37 per cent of those aged 16 to 24.

If a Muslim converts to another religion, 36 per cent of 16-to-24-year-olds thought this should be punished by death, compared with 19 per cent of 55s and over.

According to the poll, 74 per cent of those aged 16 to 24 prefer Muslim women to wear the veil, compared with only 28 per cent of over 55s.

The report by Miss Mirza, British-born daughter of Pakistani immigrants, concludes that some Muslim groups have exaggerated the problems of "Islamophobic" sentiment among non-Muslim Britons, which has fuelled a sense of victimhood.

The vast majority of Muslims ? 84 per cent ? believed they had been treated fairly in British society.

And just over a quarter ? 28 per cent ? believed that authorities in Britain had gone "over the top" in trying not to offend Muslims.

The Government has been accused of failing to tackle the so-called "preachers of hate".

No one has convicted under legislation introduced to deal with such figures. One radical cleric, Abu Hamza, was allowed to encourage extremism for years before finally being prosecuted ? but under separate laws and only under threat of him being extradited to the U.S.

'how will Europe deal with the increasing number of Muslim immigrants into their predominantly Christian/secular societies?'

The problem is not about new comers because the immigration are already very tough and moreover new comers will not even represent 1% of Muslims European citizens. The problem should be focused on Muslims already there for more than at least 2 or 3 generations. On another hand, the number of extremists we are focusing on is very limited...99% of European Muslims are Sunnites and open minded...

The topic is 'what to do when European Muslims will outnumber other religions?’ Nobody can kick them out because they are European fully and totally...

Read the definition of Democracy and realize that there is only one way to get away with it (deny power to Muslims): It is to change the rules and therefore abandon the principle itself of democracy that millions of citizens died for...

Welcome to the new world order

Ignorance is the worst weapon on earth

The question is integration like they say, when in rome do as the romans..

Truthfulvisitor, not all countries accept them, in some EU countries Islam is not even a recognized and so official religion, there are countries where they cannot build a mosque. And as long as there are countries like that there is still hope.

Regarding their demand for Sharia law... Guys, get real?! You really want your asses to be kicked by "non-government organisations"? Joerg Haider was not the last one with good ideas, many others will follow him. There are more and more very popular extreme right politicians. I'm not saying this is the right way but maybe they don't leave us any other choice? Europe is our home, our rules. If you want to VISIT it, kindly act accordingly! Constructive self-criticism wouldn't be bad for these ppl. Qatar is one of the countries who doesn't even know how to spell human rights when applied in Qatar to foreigners but oh what a wonder they seem to know it by heart when it comes to them wanting their stuff in the West. Booh booh booh, this will backfire soon enough...

Oh please, I beg to differ.

You most certainly CAN go to another country and demand a mosque, your own legal system and anything else that advances your religion around the globe. Just make sure everyone knows how offended you feel and how racist they are for making you feel that way, and you'll find it opens a lots of doors.

Then wait for the day when you reach demographic majority .. and then you can show those filthy perverted 'westerns' a few new tricks..

"I don't know why western don't stay in their "Secular homelands" if they are not willing to accept Islam and eastern society."

haven't you noticed? these 'westerns', as you call us, have absolutely no power, impact or influence in your homeland, thanks to:

a) self-censoring newspapers

b) a policeforce who will arrest and imprison for 'criticising Islam'

c) a collection of authorities (and certain well connected citizens) who have the power to deport any of us by making a simple phone call

d) a policy of segregation and non-integration in society, housing and many other areas

e) absolutely no citizenship being given out to anyone regardless of how long they stay here

f) indentured labourers serving a fixed term and then being sent out of the country once no longer needed - not assimilated into society

I commend you on the vision and foresight your leaders had in guarding your societies, unlike the Europeans and Canadians who are so keen to give away their nationality they even advertise it on the internet.

Yes, there are surely 'parasites' who do not work but to my mind, some state benefits here and there for those who meet the criteria is not going to spell the end of my world.

I am far more upset by those vocal Islamist elements of society, in Britain, for example, who verbalise their hatred towards the non-Muslims around them, demand shariah law for themselves, an effective state-within-a-state, get offended five times a day, and then openly wonder 'why is there so much Islamophobia in this country?'

And beeseh, sorry to tell you but, the section of people who are causing the problem are not going anywhere. In fact they're probably applying to bring their relatives over too. They are fully-paid up (if not fully contented) members of society. How you will do something about it? Don't worry! Join Britexpat's Lovely Liberal Multicultural Pink Fluffy Cloud World where everything is always, always alright, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just a racist tabloid reader - sneer - !

And when that majority hits the demographic tipping point, you can learn a lovely new word - dhimmitude.

quote:

"..the simple fact is that the majority are peace loving and integrated into the societies"

Oh yeah, the silent-and-always-invisible-majority.

I saw them during the recent homecoming parade for the troops...such 'fervour' and 'enthusiasm', i must say!

---

that they build a mosque or a synagogue or whatever,or impliment sharia law or any other laws, customs etc.

If you choose to live in that country, you abide by ITS laws and customs.

We here in the M.E. understand that we could be jailed for eating during ramamdan or doing certain acts in public.

99% of us expats adhere and follow these rules.If Bahrain decides to ban Pork, then thats the perogative of the government.I may not be happy about it, but I do not have the right to complain.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

Ehm... Mohannad, how many Christian churches are there in Qatar? Do you see ppl walking around in bikinis, extremely short dresses etc. drinking a beer on the lawn in summer? Are there any normal bars in Qatar except for the hotels? Can I go to any shop and buy a bottle of good red wine without a permit and having to visit QDC? And do you see ppl demonstrating on the streets because we don't have it? Do our children receive free education here? Do we get any support from the state when we become unemployed? Pls take a look in the mirror first and start talking once you analyzed what you see... Western ppl have barely any rights here. We're kept here like slaves (just check your visa and sponsorship law), not appreciated and valued in 99% of cases. Get real, we come here only for the money, not for the "wonderful experience".

what kind of freedom you miss here?

and nobody should prevent anybody from practicing their belief! But are we really free here in this region?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

PM , i can say the same thing :

I don't know why western don't stay in their "Secular homelands" if they are not willing to accept Islam and eastern society.

if i want to live in western\eastern country it does not means that i should forget my beliefs.

we should take our Beliefs anywere we go.

EsYyCmdcer, I'm just giving you the fact to show you which religions obviously "support" pedophilia...

Slim, ever heard the proverb when in Rome do as the Romans no? If you come to my country as a guest damn it respect us, our culture, religion and way of life. If you don't like it, feel free to leave. I hate it when foreigners come into my country and they start demanding and demanding as if they were at home. France is sinking because it's full with "refugees" who never work only breed. Same applies for Austria. I've seen a documentary about the Turkish Muslims living there. Amazing how much they know about human rights and how little about liabilities and social responsibility. They don't want to work at all, they are criminals and every time they are caught they start yelling racist. Thanks to Joerg Haider they learned to shut up at least for a while. Once more: if you're a guest act like one if you wanna be treated like one.

I don't mind being friends with ppl of whatever other religion, in fact I have Christian, Muslim and Hindu friends and they are great ppl who always know where the limits are and never push them. Europe has a major problem now and if we don't solve it our culture and land will decline. And no matter how much we respect human rights (which oddly enough protect even mass murderers...) and humanism it's our land and we won't give it away to anyone!

Read the second line of signature........my fren.....

It ll answer why not even once in my lifetime I do so..

And if I agree with you that there is some problem in my understand... help me understand what you had mentioned in the 1st mail...

I quote

"Talking about France 'which at least has had the courage to say - this is a secular country and we intend to keep it so' I will just remind you that France is already sinking economically due to that attitude..."

I unquote........

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

The teacher is no more than a human being. You have to do some personal research at least once in your lifetime and as you say 'Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... '

1. If you understand that I meant France is sinking because it is secular, there is a concern about your reading skills.

2. Just for a reminder, if secular is a condition to pretend that the land is Catholic or Muslim or Jewish or whatever, I just recall that it is the trap where Palestinians and Jewish felt in...

France is sinking bcoz it is secular?????

thts news..... My history teacher said secularism is the only way for civilized world to live........

Would you blame - a the lunch you ate bcoa you flunked in your exam today??? wht kind of logic was tht......

In your very own words.. If you have limited knowledge of history..... You ll realize ....that Hitler ... why is he still remembered....

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

When talking about Muslims in Europe, I bet without any doubt that the subject will shift to immigration and refugees. So as usual, I will just remind that the majority of Muslims in Europe were born in Europe in a second generation. So obviously they are not guests, they don't need to apply for citizenship and they will stay there whether you like it or not...

I am really piss.. off when reading some fascist comments as 'when you are a guest in a friend house...' or 'go to your homeland...'. The reality is there, the acceptance is useless. Talking about France 'which at least has had the courage to say - this is a secular country and we intend to keep it so' I will just remind you that France is already sinking economically due to that attitude...

Just think one minute about UK. Why French people are running off France to settle in UK???

Because UK didn't have any consideration for the stupid word of 'assimilation' and therefore was considering each ethnic minority with its proper culture. What an enjoyment to be able to move from one neighbourhood to another and feel that you are travelling around the world from the cuisine side to the specific uniform of each culture...

Open your eyes and stop moaning. If you have just a limited amount of knowledge in history, you will realise that the group leading a country has always changed according to the trend. History doesn't do anything than repeating itself... The future is no more than the past apart from some little details...

" if you offend my religion don't expect me to be silent"

What is your religion & how did I offend it? I was talking about a religion with a 'unique god' who accepts/approves homosexuals & pedophiles, which ummjake seems to be a member of.

Don't tell me that you are following the same 'unique god', too!!!

Beeseh: I'm muslim and some other muslims like me, don't agree with EsYyCmdcer (also known as airsupply). He's always being banned from forum and always gets back under a different name, don't worry about what he says. :)

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

I agree with britexpad, not long ago, the leader of the Muslim community in Portugal stated it preciselly. They all feal integrated in Portuguese society.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

"Even IF it was, it's much more logical than a 'god' who accepts homosexuals or pedophiles :-)"

May I remind you of the pedophile Qatari prince raping little boys and girls in the Czech Republic? I guess he's supposed to be religious too. What is his religion then? I don't want to attack of offend anyone but if you offend my religion don't expect me to be silent.

Even if Islamization of Europe may be taking place, but thesimple fact is that the majority are peace loving and integrated into the societies. You mention Qardawi, but his following is quite small and regionalized.

People like Geert play on people's fears for their own political gains.

How do you stop these guyz from Doing this??

You cannot go to a different country and set your rules... I mean you shouldn...

Its like goin to a frens house and asking him to cook wht you like... i mean only you like... everyday.....

Hard Work Doesn't Kill Anyone... But Why take Chances.

It is already too late, according to some calculations - there will be a major shift in Muslims' numbers in Europe from those already living there, and by 2035 we might very well find that Islam is the biggest religion. This is the so called 'Islamization of Europe' described by Geert Wilders and others.

Many Islamists in the UK make no secret at all of their desire to make some, let's say, 'substantial changes' - with the decline of Christianity and fashionable apathy towards having any faith, Islam will by default become be the main religion. The incredible number of mosques which have been constructed or are in the pipeline bears witness to this expansion. A very large mosque was even built in Rome in 1995 - under a km away from St Peter's and the Vatican. It will likely rise to power under the guise of being 'just another religion' - when in fact it is a deeply political movement.

The Islamists are quite clear in what they say the want, and Qatar's own highly esteemed Qaradawi mentions cultural jihad as part of the struggle. And while the Europeans tend to ignore such warnings, you may be sure the Islamists mean what they say - they usually do.

And on the other side, the liberals who bandy around the term 'racist' as the *ultimate* insult will do nothing to resist, for fear of having to call themselves 'racist' or intolerant neo-colonials/imperialists/whatever. As for 'limiting immigration', well, that's no more likely to happen now than at any other time when it's been discussed in the past - and why would the Euros really want to limit it? On their own merits, many individuals are deserving.

The only country that stands a chance, IMHO, is France, which at least has had the courage to say - this is a secular country and we intend to keep it so.

Airsupply: Do you mean that people are free to do what they want without hurting others on M.E.?

As a westerner muslim, i can confirm that Europe knows how to receive, and will keep receiving because in the west we know how important it is to have multi-cultural societies.

As someone said, in Rome do as the Romans.

Ayman

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Even IF it was, it's much more logical than a 'god' who accepts homosexuals or pedophiles :-)

that some immigrants, never wanted to do so....they were pushed to be so!

Yours?

Other "theories" hold that the Messiah will return when the Jews have control over all of the holy land.

So like everything else, what you believe depends upon which religion you adhere to.

Fear of a Palestinian/Muslim majority is one reason why Israel will probably never agree to a "right of return". They cannot maintain a Jewish state with a preponderance of Muslims that would outnumber them.

European countries have the luxury of having some time to analyze the issue and decide upon their response before they're inundated. Maybe they need to limit immigration. Maybe they should not give citizenship so readily/easily. I don't know what the answer is.

But I agree with PM and Alexa -- I'd like to think that immigrants anywhere move to their new country fully aware of the differences in culture from their homeland. And they should be willing to embrace this new culture -- or else they shouldn't move there.

"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."

-- Maya Angelou

which means that if the people (no matter where they migrated from) decided to follow a certain belief/tradtions, then they have the right to do so, if they gained the majority!

"...they must leave"

This is what Muslims have been saying in the past few decades, about the zionist migrants in Palestine, but no one wants to hear!

Back to your subject, ummjake:

"Sweden in grip of Islam"

Well, the prophecy, or let's say: one of the theories claim that, before judgement day, the whole world will be Muslim.

It's a huge wave which no one can stop....according to the theory

As you say. Its a minority. Europe has always accepted and integrated. That's what makes it so great.

Alexa: The right wing groups will always have a small foothold. The Nazis, the BNP, the Sverigedemokraterna in Sweden are all playing on peoples' sensibilities, especially in times of economic hardships. However, I like to think that the majority are always sensible and will see through the charades and games.

Muslims have been living peacefully in Europe and other non-Muslim countries for centuries respecting Western culture, traditions and laws. They don't have to abandon their identity, their values and their religion to 'assimilate' into European societies. If that is what this so called assimilation is, otherwise they are fine.

Historically, the western countries in general apart from being the christian club are very moderate and open when it comes to religion practices. However, they won't tolerate the extreme manner as the result and the voilence associated with it. Lets live in peace side by side.

Europe will deal with it , as it has for the past few years. These people will be absorbed into the society like any other.