you know wht of all the people trying to make a strong issue against the bid... i wud say these guys are not exactly "brush ur shoulders off" kind of an org tht the bid guys did to the previous critics....the trade unions are sooo embeded in most governments all around the world.... with savvy technique they can pressure the authorities into doing wats right....
It woudl be right after all the bribs and now no aircon on the grounds to be build, what about the no drinking, my god i can see it now car loads of supporter driving around with beer and bare breast out on the cornish,, bring it on baby,, i cant see it happening, it wil be a goo dlearning curve for the WC committee
Still to come yet, alongside the faith matters, the issue of drinking, I don't mean by that alcoholism but simply enjoying a bottle of beer while watching...
many issues to be tackled that will make it interesting to see how this community will evolve and react to, in that sense, Qatar has a lot of courage and merit to organize this event.
The Plan for the Olympic games -London 2012 In a bid to make the event the most religion-friendly Games staged, a record 193 chaplains from a multitude of faiths are being recruited, the broadsheet said.The International Olympic Committee normally insists that Games facilities are laid on for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and BuddhistsHowever, London 2012 will also cater for Zoroastrians, Jains and followers of the Baha'i faith. "We want to make sure the Games are accessible to everyone."The policy has been set by our security team, who have liaised with stakeholders, and is part of our multi-faith approach."
PG - don't waste your breath or anything else for that matter. He failed to answer my questions on more than one occasion, even after calling me a racist (which is fighting talk where I am from). He lacks intelligence, credibility and many more things besides
What raised the discussion to a higher level is your change of tone and logic.
Your Logic before was the good old Qatar is not the only one slaving workers around, look at other countries when you know nothing about other countries aside of your Google research.
Your Logic now is: I don't think Qatar will be banned, while you vaguely talk about workers conditions, just to be as political and slimy as possible. Then you add, "What do you think?" to gain as much QL sympathy.
Tony,
I don't have a problem with you as a person. I do with your English, your logic and the way you Fold but blame others.
Adey, himu, s_isale and flor thank you for the raising the discussion to a higher level that it came down to. The issue here is, did they give Qatar a timeline to do these changes? i mean, how strong a pressure group is the ITUC?
Let us assume that everything will be for the better for all workers in Qatar, when will that happen.
I think if they really are aiming to improve conditions not only to bug Qatar, they should force for these measures to be taken b4 building the stadia for afterwards, I don't think that Qatar will be banned from hosting the WC if everything else is OK but worker's conditions.
It's not only about bad working conditions but also Human rights. Just go to industrial area to find how people survives there. 10-12 people living in (10x10) feet room sharing 2/3 toilets more than 100 people. They don't get their salary in time & even it's delayed 3/4 months in most of the cases. They used to have their breakfast & either lunch or dinner with 1 riyal khabouj. Their day starts nearly about 3am & ends at nearly 7/8 pm. You may go for shopping in City Center but they are happy enough to go in Al Attiya market in Industrial area. Passport being held by the employer & can't move to another company without STC (Slave transfer certificate instead of NOC). 2 years no entry if you cancel your visa. Whereas it's only six months in UAE if you cancel before finish of 2 years & "No Ban" in Bahrain. If any abused labor fight for his right then must go back to home country without getting paid. Those laborer going to build up World Cup 2022 luxury stadium in Qatar.
I understand that you are thinking this question arise to rob Qatar world cup. In fact this question arise long time before.
absolutely jjj75, want their cake and to eat it as well....I think unless they start addressing some of these issues then the noise been made is only going to get louder!
Am I being too sensible or are my comments obtuse to the point of obfuscation(at last, a chance to use that word!).
It would seem that with Qatar's aversion to truth telling and accountability it is not yet ready for the world stage if it can't accept criticism without it claiming to be a victim of malicious bullying.
The concerns have been there from the start. What new and different organisations?
The ITUC have approached Fifa not to jump on some perceived band wagon, as you see it, but because the stadia and infrastructure constructions are due to start in 2012.
Thus in their eyes if Qatar cannot guarantee decent rights for workers now it is lobbying Fifa to reconsider its decision whilst there is still a decade ahead for some other country to plan for the event.
Of course the ITUC will call for the removal of the event from Qatar by Fifa if they don't respect workers rights - what else are they going to call for? Blowing raspberries? If the event doesn't go ahead then workers wont be exploited - that's the ITUC's job. What they really want is for the event to go ahead with jobs for workers WITHOUT exploitation - in Qatar would be great but if they can't deliver then somewhere else(the ITUC is not concerned if the workers be S.Asian, S.American, European or any other - they are the International TUC)
Tony, now I have disproved some of your rantings, may we get back to the case in hand? when is Qatar going to address the absolute disgraceful way that alot of people are treated here - ie near slavery?
This seems to be a real issue especially that spectators of the Brazil-Egypt complained about those matters.
My point was that FIFA should have analyzed all these evidences that you mentioned before it handed Qatar the WC. If it did then it beileves that Qatar can overcome all these weaknesses. They should be given a chance at least.
It is strange that all these organizations pop-up with different demands for the 2022 WC so soon!
I think, it is kind of weird, especially that no mention of issues with the Brazil and Russia WC have been mentioned...
Finally, even if you disagree with me, you stated my point correctly, it is this kind of argument I'd like to share and have feedback on, thank you adey, keep them coming!
I had to Google it , it was not QLD it was North Cornulla Beach NSW. sorry, thank god for google.com.au hay what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots
Tony why don't you answer jjj75's question....where in his posts does it come through he's a racist....as I suspect you won't answer the question as you have no facts to back you up.
Adey - be careful, tony will call you a racist for saying such things!
He has yet to answer my question about what point he is actually trying to make? Is he condoning the barbaric conditions that a lot of labourers face? OR is he acknowledging that they go on but thinks it should be swept under the carpet and not talked about Or does he plain deny that any of these things are taking place?
His message is very confusing, except that he wants to call anyone a racist who does not agree (although I have yet to understand what he is saying to agree or disagree).
"Qatar is not the only country with such problems, however, it is the only WC host put under that much scrutiny, weird ain't it...Double standards"
Now whether you, I or anyone else agrees it is surely correct in saying that the awarding of the World Cup to Qatar has been the most controversial in World Cup history. This due to a number of facts, not opinions, namely:
1) Bin Hamman has been found guilty of offering bribes(whether you think or not he is guilty is immaterial)
2) The smallest World Cup ever.
3) The heat issue(no World cup has been played where ALL the games will be played in high 40's temps)
4) The Cooling technology proposed by Qatar does not yet exist- it's only on paper.
4) The huge amount of money Qatar spent on it's bid.
5) Qatar came last in it's technical examination by Fifa.
6) The fact that Qatar rose from rank outsider at the meeting to clear winner in the first voting session at the awarding session.
7) The Qatari culture and laws being at odds with your average World Cup visiting fan.
For all I know these fears may be baseless and the Qatar World Cup a great success.
However all World Cups have come under varying different types of scrutiny in the past - it's just that Qatar has more areas of concern and controversy than any previous World Cup........and it's human rights record with regards to workers is just another one.
Think back to the worldwide demonstrations regarding the Beijing Olympics and it's human rights violations.
Notice the above lists detailed only facts however, right or wrong, there is a large proportion of opinion out there that think the World Cup was bought corruptly and illegally. As I say this may be wrong but Qatar has to expect extreme investigation based on the facts above and the perception that it was corruptly awarded.
Those are the facts on the ground and Qatar has to deal with it......the only way to counter them is to host a good World Cup.
I remember the Lebanese in QLD Australia and the problems they made. Back in the early 80’s it was the Lebanese causing the same problems down in Melbourne, we true Australian wish they al would pack up and go back to Lebanon if is all that good and leave the lucky country to the good guy.
Tony, are you so stupid that you cannot differentiate between different people's posts and the points they are trying to make?
I am not sure where you get the idea that I am racist. If you get it from my desire for a spotlight to be shone on the human rights abuses that go on in Qatar, then call me a racist but you really need to understand the term a little better.
Finally, you are out of the closet Peter, Drovers, jjj whatever your hatered and racism are clear to everyone I believe and you think you know it all, until now I hadn't used any insult but as you said, idiotic people like you are too challenged to reason, the thread was put to allow for a civilized discussion and here where it leads, it shows the level of hatered you have to our people, I am Lebanese, proud, and believe I am an Arab, Christian Arab (my cousin's name would be more of John, Peter and so you moron not Ahmed).
Your problem: you're too full of yourself to even be more objective and less generalizing because of your stupid blinding hatered.
And if you only understood one point of all I said, you could have saved us all this bs you keep on writing I just hope I don't come across any of your work if you have any...
Can't believe I am still answering, end of discussion..
Please Drovers it was a BBC paper! how can we not believe BBC!
It is one of 2 things in here, You either Agree to every idiot's logic or you get called Racist if you do not. From all I told him, his come back was that he get paid more than me :), the short man's syndrome. I'm glad you got the Visa here buddy. Good for you, now you know a different country other than Lebanon.
Summary of every Lebanese I met ( not through business because everyone advices you not to have them as business partners ). We are the best Arabs, Actually wait a minute we are not Arabs we are Phoenicians and we speak Thick accent English, broken French in every sentence to show we are different. We also Buy things we can't afford just to look rich. Also, Lebanon is the nicest country in the universe although we have never been to any other country besides Qatar and Africa. We have been fighting each other for 50 years because our politicians are retarded BUT we keep on ELECTING THEM! .. but hey we have democracy ;)... All our Women are somehow physically fake, every man thinks he is Al Capone, but we are the highest class of Arabs, oh wait we are Phoenicians and the loop continues..
Did you try googling Qatar before coming here man? I bet it was the same as you read!
I also pity the people that are only educated by Google and think they know everything. That’s the problem with a country that is built on New Money…say no more but to them that don’t understand go back to your Google and see. Yes I pity you all. And yes I am happy to be called a racist, and so proud of it as I stand up for what I see not act like a snake in the grass..
All the bribes that went down, now they cnat have the Aircon like they said they would have ss it cant work.. just more lies to get the bid and cant follow thru with the goods, too much new money and not a idea.
Tony, I am still unlear as to what your actual point is. are you trying to say that we should not discuss the human rights abuses in Qatar because other countries also have problems in this respect? If so, then perhaps we should all turn a blind eye to every bad thing that happens in this world?
I had done that way before your post. I had ended that discussion as I said, I won't be able to explain my point as if I was doing that for a 5 yr. old a sI am no expert in early childhood education. Sorry, come back later.
Some points for you to reflect on when your hatred for Arabs cools down and stops blinding you:
1. Google is a search engine enabling us to get info, the article I referred to was from the BBC, sorry but I won't pay to educate you it is there for free
2. You'd be surprised to find out that I get paid way better than you and your fellow westerner mates
3. It is good that Qatar is hosting you unemployed people (or retired) coming from your countries to make tax-free money from this country that accepts the fact that it will need to live with you all in order to benefit from your expertise, at least for a while, a while that won’t last if it keeps facing racism from people like you!
4. Yes racist, and judgmental, that is what you are and you can check the definition or racist… guess where… on Google, and from a source as reliable as the Merriem –webster!
Oh, and by the way, it is kinda childish to think that just because you visited a country, you know more...
Also, Have you been To Brazil or China? I have..Stop using your judgments based on Google!
There is absolutely not one country with half of Qatar's wealth that treats labor workers like Qatar does. If you can't see this, then there is no point in even arguing with you buddy.
Racist is when you hate a someone based on their RACE only.
I clearly stated I do not hate Arabs. I said I pity them, just like I pity you for failing to get what I meant in my simple English.
If you think people in a certain country are DUMB, it is not racist my man. Please tell me why Qatar hires British/Americans and pay them 10 times what they pay you?
Also please tell me why USA and Britain does NOT hire you or your cosine Ahmad and pay them more than Mr Mike?
Don't ever call me Racist. Call me Realistic and truthful!
I read the article again, what workers' right was specified. It also says, "No Qatar WC without workers right". So it is really like a demand or nothing.
Again, for arguments sake, what if Qatar says, we have our rule now and it will be the one implemented, so it means they will push for a boycott of workers or push for a boycott of the WC2022?
Unreasonable demands or not........not one of the rights mentioned above is available here in Qatar. And as you said, if you complain against your teatment here you are fired.
So Fifa want Fifa's World Cup to be built without exploiting the work force......so to do this they will have to demand that the construction companies and government uphold some universally agreed basic standards.
It's a trade-off - workers get treated fairly and Qatar gets to bask in its vanity project. Simple really.
works and exist. As I said, if the demand is reasonable, fine. But back in our country, unreasonable demands is almost synonymous with closure or bankruptcy of a company. ANd in the end, it's the workers plight that are ruined while the UNION's officers sit well in their position and get rich!
In response to your question - YES - the trade union movement was the backbone of todays European liberal democracies and the foundation of many civil, industrial, human and political rights we enjoy today:
A trade union is an organization of workers that have banded together to achieve common goals such as better working conditions. The trade union, through its leadership, bargains with the employer on behalf of union members (rank and file members) and negotiates labour contracts (collective bargaining) with employers. This may include the negotiation of wages, work rules, complaint procedures, rules governing hiring, firing and promotion of workers, benefits, workplace safety and policies. The agreements negotiated by the union leaders are binding on the rank and file members and the employer and in some cases on other non-member workers.
Originating in Europe, trade unions became popular in many countries during the Industrial Revolution, when the lack of skill necessary to perform most jobs shifted employment bargaining power almost completely to the employers' side, causing many workers to be mistreated and underpaid. Trade union organizations may be composed of individual workers, professionals, past workers, or the unemployed. The most common, but by no means only, purpose of these organizations is "maintaining or improving the conditions of their employment".
Over the last three hundred years, trade unions have developed into a number of forms, influenced by differing political objectives. Activities of trade unions vary, but may include:
Provision of benefits to members: Early trade unions, like Friendly Societies, often provided a range of benefits to insure members against unemployment, ill health, old age and funeral expenses. In many developed countries, these functions have been assumed by the state; however, the provision of professional training, legal advice and representation for members is still an important benefit of trade union membership.
Collective bargaining: Where trade unions are able to operate openly and are recognized by employers, they may negotiate with employers over wages and working conditions.
Industrial action: Trade unions may enforce strikes or resistance to lockouts in furtherance of particular goals.
If somebody has to file a complain to get what is their rights - do you think they want to stay and continue to work for the same sponsor? Sponsorship and visa systems with exit permits are jail sentences! Having to ask for documented permission - most time not granted!!! - to leave is WRONG!!!
and although the laborers were sent home, they get all their benefits and all money due them. But of course they lost their jobs, what do you expect? You report your employer, do you expect to be treated nice afterwards, better GO HOME!
Let's say Qatar did not oblige, what's the scenario? Hosting will be forfeited? So no job for the workers, so can ITUC provide that lost jobs? To some extent, UNIONS are good but many times it was proven to be disaster. Look at our country, did Labor UNIONS gave a good result?
It's a give and take condition and REASONABLE demands. ANd if it reasonable, it means it is limited, not open-ended!
what he signed when he left his point of origin, then by all means, I agree with you. But recruitment fee is not with the host country but the point of origin.
In Qatar, you can report abuse by your employer, either to the labor or to the human rights (at least), there is a grievance center. There is a labor law that one can use to report abuse.
What this international human group should do is put offices here and give assistance to whoever who wants to pursue reporting. Not going to FIFA and asked such demands as if they are making it their hostage!
And if anyone here really want to stand-up for the poor workers, then do it themselves. Help them not by ranting here but on-hand. A lot of times I use my position to help these laborers get a fairer condition but of course I have my limited resources and I can just do as much. But at least I tried and had help so many already but no need to rant and whine which I find all dirty politics.
For those with who think that such action is just Doha bashing, an almost identical situation has happened in Abu Dhabi at the proposed Guggenheim Museum:
The Guggenheim’s Abu Dhabi outpost faces a boycott from a group of 130 international artists, curators and writers who say they will refuse to cooperate on the project until working conditions for labourers building the $800m museum are improved.
The petition, published online and addressed to Richard Armstrong, the director of the Guggenheim Foundation and its New York museum, says: “Human rights violations are currently occurring on Saadiyat Island, the location of the new museum.” It cites a 2009 report by the advocacy group Human Rights Watch, which says it “has documented a cycle of abuse that leaves migrant workers deeply indebted, poorly paid, and unable to defend their rights or even quit their jobs”. According to a release posted on the Human Rights Watch website last night, “each of the 94 workers interviewed for the report said he paid between $1,800 and $4,100 in recruitment fees prior to his employment, highlighting the nearly universal acceptance of this practice in the UAE.” Most of the workers on the project come from the Indian subcontinent and live in a specially built housing complex on Saadiyat Island, which Armstrong visited this autumn and the Guggenheim says “has set a high standard for workers' accommodations in the region”.
...
This is not the first time the Human Rights Watch has issued protests against labour conditions in the United Arab Emirates. In 2007, it asked the French government to stand up for the rights of workers constructing the Louvre’s planned branch in Abu Dhabi, also on Saadiyat Island. And last year, it applauded New York University’s announcement that it will require all companies working on its new campus in Abu Dhabi to reimburse workers for any recruiting fees, bar them from confiscating worker passports, and require them to provide 30 days of annual leave, health insurance, and pay for overtime, among other benefits.
Why can't the people in power in Qatar just man up and actually admit that there is a problem? Why keep denying it, or pointing to other countries? It's akin to a rapist telling police to let him go, because other people rape women, and THEY haven't been arrested.
The pressure from the Abu Dhabi boycott forced the developer of the museum to appoint Price Waterhouse Coopers to oversee the workers' conditions.
Why can't people in Qatar just try for once to treat migrant Asian workers with some respect and dignity? If they want to be seen as a developed country which respects human rights and observes ethical standards, this might be a good place to start.
Flor what the hell do you mean unknowingly that is what everyone wants who didn't support the bid, what a load of crap. I didn't support the bid but now they have the cup I have said many times I hope they make the most of the opportunity, but as such they are open to the worldwide spotlight. What FIFA does is up to them.
Well they say they want to popularize the game. Well if that was the case would it not have been better having the games in say Indonesia, Uruguay, India,Nigeria, etc where there would be huge opportunities to make the game more popular and get a lot of youth interested. The problem here is this FIFA is led by a old and going senile tyrant called Sepp Blatter who has been stuck in his chair for so long and who has very little idea what he is leading the rest of the football loving world into
basically a lot of people want ot ignore inconvenient truths and they could do that before Qatar started to take more of a active role in the world at large. Now they reap what they sow and just because they have a sycophantic press here, does not mean other press organisations around the world are quite so tame. I know it must irk the naysayers that they cannot conveniently sweep these truths under the carpet perhaps they should spend less time getting annoyed with the just criticism and take a long hard look at what actually goes on here.
Flor where have people said they are waiting for Qatar to "give it up"....Qatar have won the bid, and now they have they are open to the worldwide scrutinizing that goes with hosting one of the biggest events on the planet...
I don't think anyone is saying here that Qatar should give up the world cup, I for one am not saying that.
BUT, Qatar needs to accept the spotlight and just criticism on human rights abuses here -human rights organisations and others have certainly had this on their radar for quite some time. I would say, grow up, you want to play on the world stage, you have to accept what goes along with that and scrutiny is the watchword
I think what Tony is trying to say is that we should not criticise Qatar because his perception other countries (including Germany and the holocuast??!! weird) are not judged or criticised in the same way.
what utter nonsense, if we all felt like that, nothing would ever be done about the atrocious way workers are treated here!!!
The problem with most Arabs is that they are ignorant. Seriously, even the educated ones strike me upon just talking with them. They have this I-KNOW-ALL attitude and I am yet to meet a professional one. By professional I mean punctual, honest, realistic, etc and not just a suit a tie and a stupid pointy shoes.
It happened that the ball is in their court now. They have the money. But history tells us that the ball never stay in the same court at all times. The day will come when these labor prisoners will own these OWL looking humans.
Mind you that I don't hate them. I just pity them. I really do. They have NO CLUE how things work and they think they got it all under control ;)
Well everybody irest my case I will argue with some people on this thread in 10 yrs when they are older or maybe incidentally more intelligent.
For the others and only for them, I reiterate my point stated earlier in simpler words:
Qatar is not the only country with such problems, however, it is the only WC host put under that much scrutiny, weird ain't it...Double standards rule our real world today for those who are up in the air...
You posted the link which suggested that workers in Brazil working on some stadia have gone on strike. Thus they are better treated than their counterparts here who do not have that option. Thus your assertion that Brazil and Qatar are of an equal standing regarding the treatment of their workers is shown to be false.
Qatar is not being punished in this situation; the Building Workers International have a duty to fight for the interests of construction workers worldwide, they and the ITUC have merely recommended to FIFA that they have "the power to make labour rights a requirement of the Qatari authorities who are hosting a World Cup."
Trade unionists have also said that Fifa has the power to impose decent working standards on Qatar, in the same way that it has introduced a code of working practice on footballs bearing the Fifa logo, in a bid to prevent child labour.
can u plz tell me what my point was just so that i know what i will be discussing with you?
i stated it clearly more than 3 times so please before engaging in anymore discussion with anyone of u i demand u state my point to check if u got it!!!
You have disproved your own point; the workers in Brazil have the RIGHT to strike against what they see as offences against them. What do you think would happen here if the same action was tried? That is what the ITUC is pointing out - the lack of workers rights here and their terrible working conditions......all for the sake of Qatar's vanity project.
thought the child abuse point was too challenging for you so i decided to argue with you on something at your reach. i don't think that these workers were on strike because of great working conditions, get in now or still to challenging? sorry but you should really think about who is embarassing him/herself.
Sadly enough, I cannot make it simpler, early vhildhood education is really not my thing.
so whats your point Tony? Thats right you don't have one....no mention of child labour building the staida...get real Tony, you are emabarrasing yourself!
well I am sorry to have launched this debate as it seemed I am not getting through there, don't know if my point is hard to get or is it the language barrier.
I AM SAYING THAT THIS IS THE 1ST TIME THAT THESE THINGS ARE MENTIONED 11 YRS BEFORE AN EVENT AND THIS IS NOT THE 1ST COUNTRY THAT HAS THIS TYPE OF TROUBLE!!!MAN
IS IT SO HARD TO GET?!? I WILL GO ON THIS 1 BY 1 MAYBE SOMEONE WILL GET MY POINT.
BRAXIL IS IN 2014, HAVE YOU HEARD ANY ORG. COMPLAINING ABOUT CHILD LABOR THERE FOR INSTANCE?!? INSTEAD ALL EYES ARE ON BIN HAMMAM, A/Cs IN THE STADIA AND WORKING CONDITIONS IN QATAR! FOR GOD'S SAKE SUDDENLY THEY CARE ABOUT ALL THESE MATTERS ONLY IN QATAR.
BE - but at least we are all talking about it and also the international community are now becoming aware. This surely must be the first step.
Qatar should have thought long and hard about bidding for such events, if they did not want the global community to lift up rocks and peer at the good, bad and the ugly that is Qatar
Tony - I would say the crucial difference is not that Qatar is any worse than China, SA, Brazil etc but at least we are very aware of the working conditions in these countries and the human rights abuses that go on. I don't think that people are quite as aware about what goes on in ME countries, it certainly had never occurred to me that this was a problem in Qatar.
Good, hopefully having the world cup here will mean a spotlight on the terrible working conditions suffered not only by those working as labourers but also the silent domestic army of qatar!
I'm sure that Russia, Chile, Brazil and Mexico are not great for workers, but they are certainly no worse than here, anyway thats another debate which can be argued for and against, of course Fifa has double standards, how else can they award a country the WC when they had the HIGH risk rating from the FIFA tech team, and now there are debates on wether they can even deliver the A/C stadiums as promised....anyway I'm going off tangent, if this pressure from the unions on FIFA gets better conditions for the construction workers then its a winner.
Raven I would like you to please google the following on woorking conditions in countries like Russia, Brazil, South Africa, Chile, Mexico, not to mention that nothing compares bad working conditions with Holocausts & Apartheid, still these countries were not "punished".
Double-standards has always been an issue with Fifa, event S.A had been second to Germany for the 2006 WC with no reason then they gave it to them in 2010!
Come on Tony, use some common sense, you can't compare previous hosts conditions for workers to Qatars...South Africa previous host, could be better but def better than Qatar, Germany 2006 no comparison, South Korea/Japan 2002 again no comparison. Construction workers conditions are apalling and as close to slavery as you can get....keep the whole issue in perspective man!
We all know that previous bids were given to countries, accusations of bribery had emerged but not blown out of proportion like in the case of Qatar! Also, look at the list of countries that hosted the WC do they all have a good record of human respect or workers rights?
It would be naive to believe so.
That doesn't mean that the conditions of the workers should not be improved, it just means that suddenly, everybody wants to make the world a better place or no WC for Qatar!!!
Nothing will happen... some more dollars and then this person will be silent again...
they didn't knew this before?
Fifa just came to know this about this?
for what purpose they came before? when they visited the qatar? they went to Corniche to have a cup of tea?
leave it... the more we discuss the more its painful... then some of our respectable members will divert the topic to nationality bashing and then they will start abusing other arab countries especially Saudi Arab, and then they will discuss rap cases, and for next one week again the same situation...
Qatar will be same, nothing will change, Laws will not change, if this time it is for real, they will increase few bucks salary of labor... thats all..
.. and to imagine that this very same workers will be kept hidden far away from the games venues and not allowed into the stadiums and world cup venues to even have a look at the games or other events.
i agree with Fathima, most of the workers don't have any idea as to what kind of living and working conditions they may be having here. And until they arrived here they don't have any other option but to accept their pathetic condition. I hope this will be a wake-up call to the Qatari Authorities to improve the living and working conditions of the workers.
yeah fathima i agree with you..... i was raised in arabia so i know it as well as anyone would..... what goes on is absolutely shameful..... even while hiring a maid for domestic help, they insist on sending a photograph first, they contact agents in the sub-continent and tell them to send " good looking young girls " ........ that in itself explains a lot!
i dont understand! why is there so much treachery? why cant they all just be human! money doesnt give you anything! when u die you go in a 10 riyal cloth!
i agree with you mate, and we aint talking just one country! its the same with all of the middle east ( G.C.C rather )........ all they wanna see is the glitz and glamour! the skyscrapers and shopping malls..... flaunt of money! you know what the state of these so called " sheikhs " would be if there were no natural resources? they would be walking the desert with camels and eating dates, the resources are god given.....they want that but they dont want his best resource he has given to mankind..... mankind itself! i seriously hate people who rate money over a person! and judge him by his financial state! and not the heart!
the world can be a much better place than what it is! if people have a little courtesy and common sense!
arabs are supposed to set an example to muslims and the muslim world in general, but all they do is ruin its image to the outside world! what happens in KSA, UAE and Qatar is absolutely pathetic, all these innocent workers who built the massive sky scrapers are not allowed to go anywhere near them after completion! and while they are at work they have to bear such hardship! and even if there are casualties and people die its not even reported in the press! there is absolutely no freedom of speech in the arab world!
no wonder muslims all over the world are facing a hard time, and arabs have to be partially blamed for that!
one big sign that judgement day is near and there would be bad times is.... " houses will be taller than mosques " ..... the worlds tallest building is to be made right next to the kaabah in makkah! whats wrong with you people? what are you trying to prove?
Why is assumed that this will 'rob' Qatar of the world cup?
Isn't that basically saying that you don't believe the workers' rights need to improve, therefore Qatar will lose the event?
Why not post something praising this as one of the few positive things that any organisation has done recently in helping the plight of the Asian laborers who get so royally screwed in this country?
Dont think anything is going to change as these are the manoeuvers prevalent in high profile cases when each one shows that he is doing its job the right way which actually they did not when it should have been done, to befool the common man ... and this is not the last time that we hear such concerns, we will hear them till 2022 or may be even after.
I've been expecting something like this since the moment they announced the World Cup will be held in Qatar, I can't imagine the government wasn't expecting it.
Let's hope the Leadership take this as an opportunity to change the conditions of workers in Qatar, rather than just ignoring it.
If they choose to ignore it, then they will end up villanized in the press and this will be a major PR failure for the country.
Little do they then realize of how some workers are actually deceived into coming here. Many of them have no clue how pathetic their living conditions are until they arrive. And for many going back then is not an option as they would have had to take out loans back home in order to get here in the first place hence will need to first and foremost settle those debts.
Just wait for the naysayers who don't like anything but praise being heaped upon Qatar. They will say, 'if the workers don't like it they can just go home or not come in the first place'
they are either, ignorant, stupid or just plain malicious
Dunno what page s_isale is on but I believe racism is not the topic here .. although racism is a big problem over here !
I have seen people of Nepali, Indian and Filipino origin being mistreated in camps... $hit living conditions .. bad daily sustenance .. all so that the employer and the sponsor can make a quick buck .. for a fistful of dollars ;)
I seriously think that the sponsorship rule over here is closely linked to the concept of owning slaves .. how else can you justify the injustice and prejudiced behavior that you encounter here ????
Many predicted this was the sort of exposure Qatar could expect if they won the bid, now they have, here it is!! And if it gets better working conditions for the workers building the stadia thats a plus!
England and Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand has said he is astonished by Sepp Blatter's claim that football does not have on-field racism problems.
The Fifa president said incidents on the pitch could be settled by a handshake after the game, but later claimed he had been misunderstood.
"Tell me I have just read Blatter's comments wrong... if not then I am astonished," said Ferdinand on Twitter.
Have you seen the worker's living conditions in camps. All for a meager salary to somehow manage to feed their families two squire meals a day. These are the workers who will be building all the stadia and other facilities to make the mega event WC 2022 happen. If you can't respect humanity, you don't deserve to be respected. Why call it an 'excuse' rather than a prerequisite. I think this is an step in the right direction.
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they bribed the commity..... cant come thru with the goods and the human slavery issues, teach them a leason i feel,
you know wht of all the people trying to make a strong issue against the bid... i wud say these guys are not exactly "brush ur shoulders off" kind of an org tht the bid guys did to the previous critics....the trade unions are sooo embeded in most governments all around the world.... with savvy technique they can pressure the authorities into doing wats right....
or the hooligans cruising the streets to party getting told by Al Faza to go home sleep at 3 am ;)
It woudl be right after all the bribs and now no aircon on the grounds to be build, what about the no drinking, my god i can see it now car loads of supporter driving around with beer and bare breast out on the cornish,, bring it on baby,, i cant see it happening, it wil be a goo dlearning curve for the WC committee
Still to come yet, alongside the faith matters, the issue of drinking, I don't mean by that alcoholism but simply enjoying a bottle of beer while watching...
many issues to be tackled that will make it interesting to see how this community will evolve and react to, in that sense, Qatar has a lot of courage and merit to organize this event.
The Plan for the Olympic games -London 2012 In a bid to make the event the most religion-friendly Games staged, a record 193 chaplains from a multitude of faiths are being recruited, the broadsheet said.The International Olympic Committee normally insists that Games facilities are laid on for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and BuddhistsHowever, London 2012 will also cater for Zoroastrians, Jains and followers of the Baha'i faith. "We want to make sure the Games are accessible to everyone."The policy has been set by our security team, who have liaised with stakeholders, and is part of our multi-faith approach."
PG - don't waste your breath or anything else for that matter. He failed to answer my questions on more than one occasion, even after calling me a racist (which is fighting talk where I am from). He lacks intelligence, credibility and many more things besides
What raised the discussion to a higher level is your change of tone and logic.
Your Logic before was the good old Qatar is not the only one slaving workers around, look at other countries when you know nothing about other countries aside of your Google research.
Your Logic now is: I don't think Qatar will be banned, while you vaguely talk about workers conditions, just to be as political and slimy as possible. Then you add, "What do you think?" to gain as much QL sympathy.
Tony,
I don't have a problem with you as a person. I do with your English, your logic and the way you Fold but blame others.
Adey, himu, s_isale and flor thank you for the raising the discussion to a higher level that it came down to. The issue here is, did they give Qatar a timeline to do these changes? i mean, how strong a pressure group is the ITUC?
Let us assume that everything will be for the better for all workers in Qatar, when will that happen.
I think if they really are aiming to improve conditions not only to bug Qatar, they should force for these measures to be taken b4 building the stadia for afterwards, I don't think that Qatar will be banned from hosting the WC if everything else is OK but worker's conditions.
What do you think?
WHEN???????????????
"Of course the ITUC will call for the removal of the event from Qatar by Fifa if they don't respect workers rights...."
of course, that's what the OP is saying all along!
@S_isale and the relevance of your post is?????
isale - not sure of the relevance to the original posting!??
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/blatter-embroiled-in-new-controversy--this-time-over-tickets-6265084.html
It's not only about bad working conditions but also Human rights. Just go to industrial area to find how people survives there. 10-12 people living in (10x10) feet room sharing 2/3 toilets more than 100 people. They don't get their salary in time & even it's delayed 3/4 months in most of the cases. They used to have their breakfast & either lunch or dinner with 1 riyal khabouj. Their day starts nearly about 3am & ends at nearly 7/8 pm. You may go for shopping in City Center but they are happy enough to go in Al Attiya market in Industrial area. Passport being held by the employer & can't move to another company without STC (Slave transfer certificate instead of NOC). 2 years no entry if you cancel your visa. Whereas it's only six months in UAE if you cancel before finish of 2 years & "No Ban" in Bahrain. If any abused labor fight for his right then must go back to home country without getting paid. Those laborer going to build up World Cup 2022 luxury stadium in Qatar.
I understand that you are thinking this question arise to rob Qatar world cup. In fact this question arise long time before.
absolutely jjj75, want their cake and to eat it as well....I think unless they start addressing some of these issues then the noise been made is only going to get louder!
I think that is the point, they want the spotlight but don't want uncomfortable truths being highlighted by that same spotlight
Nope, you are bang on the money Adey!!
yeah, but on the downside......it's Budweiser!
Am I being too sensible or are my comments obtuse to the point of obfuscation(at last, a chance to use that word!).
It would seem that with Qatar's aversion to truth telling and accountability it is not yet ready for the world stage if it can't accept criticism without it claiming to be a victim of malicious bullying.
very true indeed
Well on the upside, if Qatar does manage to retain the hosting rights for the event, Budweiser has singed up as a definite sponsor for the 2022 event.
So if nothing else we should be able to get cheap and plentiful beer in Qatar for once.
The concerns have been there from the start. What new and different organisations?
The ITUC have approached Fifa not to jump on some perceived band wagon, as you see it, but because the stadia and infrastructure constructions are due to start in 2012.
Thus in their eyes if Qatar cannot guarantee decent rights for workers now it is lobbying Fifa to reconsider its decision whilst there is still a decade ahead for some other country to plan for the event.
Of course the ITUC will call for the removal of the event from Qatar by Fifa if they don't respect workers rights - what else are they going to call for? Blowing raspberries? If the event doesn't go ahead then workers wont be exploited - that's the ITUC's job. What they really want is for the event to go ahead with jobs for workers WITHOUT exploitation - in Qatar would be great but if they can't deliver then somewhere else(the ITUC is not concerned if the workers be S.Asian, S.American, European or any other - they are the International TUC)
There has been alot of mention about Brazil's human rights records and I am sure the same for Russia if I bothered to check,
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/28/un-claims-human-rights-violations-in-brazil-s-preparations-for-world-cup
Tony, now I have disproved some of your rantings, may we get back to the case in hand? when is Qatar going to address the absolute disgraceful way that alot of people are treated here - ie near slavery?
This seems to be a real issue especially that spectators of the Brazil-Egypt complained about those matters.
My point was that FIFA should have analyzed all these evidences that you mentioned before it handed Qatar the WC. If it did then it beileves that Qatar can overcome all these weaknesses. They should be given a chance at least.
It is strange that all these organizations pop-up with different demands for the 2022 WC so soon!
I think, it is kind of weird, especially that no mention of issues with the Brazil and Russia WC have been mentioned...
he needs to earn more money, to keep him in hair gel and pointy shoes!
AND Peter, don't forget he earns more money than you!!!
lol I bet he is one of those Lebs with a Cigar in his mouth that hangs out at LA Cigal and is some Local's B***h!
whats the matter Tony, no evidence to support your case that jjj75 is a racist? Thought as much!
Finally, even if you disagree with me, you stated my point correctly, it is this kind of argument I'd like to share and have feedback on, thank you adey, keep them coming!
I had to Google it , it was not QLD it was North Cornulla Beach NSW. sorry, thank god for google.com.au hay what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots
Cheers Raven, he won't answer it because he does not know himself.
Tony why don't you answer jjj75's question....where in his posts does it come through he's a racist....as I suspect you won't answer the question as you have no facts to back you up.
Also, if you 'disagree'with him it must be because you earn less money than he does???? very random
Adey - be careful, tony will call you a racist for saying such things!
He has yet to answer my question about what point he is actually trying to make? Is he condoning the barbaric conditions that a lot of labourers face? OR is he acknowledging that they go on but thinks it should be swept under the carpet and not talked about Or does he plain deny that any of these things are taking place?
His message is very confusing, except that he wants to call anyone a racist who does not agree (although I have yet to understand what he is saying to agree or disagree).
Not bright
I gather this is your point:
"Qatar is not the only country with such problems, however, it is the only WC host put under that much scrutiny, weird ain't it...Double standards"
Now whether you, I or anyone else agrees it is surely correct in saying that the awarding of the World Cup to Qatar has been the most controversial in World Cup history. This due to a number of facts, not opinions, namely:
1) Bin Hamman has been found guilty of offering bribes(whether you think or not he is guilty is immaterial)
2) The smallest World Cup ever.
3) The heat issue(no World cup has been played where ALL the games will be played in high 40's temps)
4) The Cooling technology proposed by Qatar does not yet exist- it's only on paper.
4) The huge amount of money Qatar spent on it's bid.
5) Qatar came last in it's technical examination by Fifa.
6) The fact that Qatar rose from rank outsider at the meeting to clear winner in the first voting session at the awarding session.
7) The Qatari culture and laws being at odds with your average World Cup visiting fan.
For all I know these fears may be baseless and the Qatar World Cup a great success.
However all World Cups have come under varying different types of scrutiny in the past - it's just that Qatar has more areas of concern and controversy than any previous World Cup........and it's human rights record with regards to workers is just another one.
Think back to the worldwide demonstrations regarding the Beijing Olympics and it's human rights violations.
Notice the above lists detailed only facts however, right or wrong, there is a large proportion of opinion out there that think the World Cup was bought corruptly and illegally. As I say this may be wrong but Qatar has to expect extreme investigation based on the facts above and the perception that it was corruptly awarded.
Those are the facts on the ground and Qatar has to deal with it......the only way to counter them is to host a good World Cup.
regards
jjj u einstein if ur so bother with the post go search for something better to do and leave the page!
I remember the Lebanese in QLD Australia and the problems they made. Back in the early 80’s it was the Lebanese causing the same problems down in Melbourne, we true Australian wish they al would pack up and go back to Lebanon if is all that good and leave the lucky country to the good guy.
Tony, are you so stupid that you cannot differentiate between different people's posts and the points they are trying to make?
I am not sure where you get the idea that I am racist. If you get it from my desire for a spotlight to be shone on the human rights abuses that go on in Qatar, then call me a racist but you really need to understand the term a little better.
The more you post the sillier you look!
Finally, you are out of the closet Peter, Drovers, jjj whatever your hatered and racism are clear to everyone I believe and you think you know it all, until now I hadn't used any insult but as you said, idiotic people like you are too challenged to reason, the thread was put to allow for a civilized discussion and here where it leads, it shows the level of hatered you have to our people, I am Lebanese, proud, and believe I am an Arab, Christian Arab (my cousin's name would be more of John, Peter and so you moron not Ahmed).
Your problem: you're too full of yourself to even be more objective and less generalizing because of your stupid blinding hatered.
And if you only understood one point of all I said, you could have saved us all this bs you keep on writing I just hope I don't come across any of your work if you have any...
Can't believe I am still answering, end of discussion..
Please Drovers it was a BBC paper! how can we not believe BBC!
It is one of 2 things in here, You either Agree to every idiot's logic or you get called Racist if you do not. From all I told him, his come back was that he get paid more than me :), the short man's syndrome. I'm glad you got the Visa here buddy. Good for you, now you know a different country other than Lebanon.
Summary of every Lebanese I met ( not through business because everyone advices you not to have them as business partners ). We are the best Arabs, Actually wait a minute we are not Arabs we are Phoenicians and we speak Thick accent English, broken French in every sentence to show we are different. We also Buy things we can't afford just to look rich. Also, Lebanon is the nicest country in the universe although we have never been to any other country besides Qatar and Africa. We have been fighting each other for 50 years because our politicians are retarded BUT we keep on ELECTING THEM! .. but hey we have democracy ;)... All our Women are somehow physically fake, every man thinks he is Al Capone, but we are the highest class of Arabs, oh wait we are Phoenicians and the loop continues..
Did you try googling Qatar before coming here man? I bet it was the same as you read!
I also pity the people that are only educated by Google and think they know everything. That’s the problem with a country that is built on New Money…say no more but to them that don’t understand go back to your Google and see. Yes I pity you all. And yes I am happy to be called a racist, and so proud of it as I stand up for what I see not act like a snake in the grass..
All the bribes that went down, now they cnat have the Aircon like they said they would have ss it cant work.. just more lies to get the bid and cant follow thru with the goods, too much new money and not a idea.
http://www.news.com.au/world/extremists-welcome-qatar-world-cup/story-e6frfkyi-1225965274028
Tony, I am still unlear as to what your actual point is. are you trying to say that we should not discuss the human rights abuses in Qatar because other countries also have problems in this respect? If so, then perhaps we should all turn a blind eye to every bad thing that happens in this world?
Dear Peter,
I pity you.
I had done that way before your post. I had ended that discussion as I said, I won't be able to explain my point as if I was doing that for a 5 yr. old a sI am no expert in early childhood education. Sorry, come back later.
Some points for you to reflect on when your hatred for Arabs cools down and stops blinding you:
1. Google is a search engine enabling us to get info, the article I referred to was from the BBC, sorry but I won't pay to educate you it is there for free
2. You'd be surprised to find out that I get paid way better than you and your fellow westerner mates
3. It is good that Qatar is hosting you unemployed people (or retired) coming from your countries to make tax-free money from this country that accepts the fact that it will need to live with you all in order to benefit from your expertise, at least for a while, a while that won’t last if it keeps facing racism from people like you!
4. Yes racist, and judgmental, that is what you are and you can check the definition or racist… guess where… on Google, and from a source as reliable as the Merriem –webster!
Oh, and by the way, it is kinda childish to think that just because you visited a country, you know more...
Really pathetic...
Cheers
Also, Have you been To Brazil or China? I have..Stop using your judgments based on Google!
There is absolutely not one country with half of Qatar's wealth that treats labor workers like Qatar does. If you can't see this, then there is no point in even arguing with you buddy.
TonnyHana,
Racist is when you hate a someone based on their RACE only.
I clearly stated I do not hate Arabs. I said I pity them, just like I pity you for failing to get what I meant in my simple English.
If you think people in a certain country are DUMB, it is not racist my man. Please tell me why Qatar hires British/Americans and pay them 10 times what they pay you?
Also please tell me why USA and Britain does NOT hire you or your cosine Ahmad and pay them more than Mr Mike?
Don't ever call me Racist. Call me Realistic and truthful!
I read the article again, what workers' right was specified. It also says, "No Qatar WC without workers right". So it is really like a demand or nothing.
Again, for arguments sake, what if Qatar says, we have our rule now and it will be the one implemented, so it means they will push for a boycott of workers or push for a boycott of the WC2022?
Unreasonable demands or not........not one of the rights mentioned above is available here in Qatar. And as you said, if you complain against your teatment here you are fired.
So Fifa want Fifa's World Cup to be built without exploiting the work force......so to do this they will have to demand that the construction companies and government uphold some universally agreed basic standards.
It's a trade-off - workers get treated fairly and Qatar gets to bask in its vanity project. Simple really.
works and exist. As I said, if the demand is reasonable, fine. But back in our country, unreasonable demands is almost synonymous with closure or bankruptcy of a company. ANd in the end, it's the workers plight that are ruined while the UNION's officers sit well in their position and get rich!
.
In response to your question - YES - the trade union movement was the backbone of todays European liberal democracies and the foundation of many civil, industrial, human and political rights we enjoy today:
A trade union is an organization of workers that have banded together to achieve common goals such as better working conditions. The trade union, through its leadership, bargains with the employer on behalf of union members (rank and file members) and negotiates labour contracts (collective bargaining) with employers. This may include the negotiation of wages, work rules, complaint procedures, rules governing hiring, firing and promotion of workers, benefits, workplace safety and policies. The agreements negotiated by the union leaders are binding on the rank and file members and the employer and in some cases on other non-member workers.
Originating in Europe, trade unions became popular in many countries during the Industrial Revolution, when the lack of skill necessary to perform most jobs shifted employment bargaining power almost completely to the employers' side, causing many workers to be mistreated and underpaid. Trade union organizations may be composed of individual workers, professionals, past workers, or the unemployed. The most common, but by no means only, purpose of these organizations is "maintaining or improving the conditions of their employment".
Over the last three hundred years, trade unions have developed into a number of forms, influenced by differing political objectives. Activities of trade unions vary, but may include:
Provision of benefits to members: Early trade unions, like Friendly Societies, often provided a range of benefits to insure members against unemployment, ill health, old age and funeral expenses. In many developed countries, these functions have been assumed by the state; however, the provision of professional training, legal advice and representation for members is still an important benefit of trade union membership.
Collective bargaining: Where trade unions are able to operate openly and are recognized by employers, they may negotiate with employers over wages and working conditions.
Industrial action: Trade unions may enforce strikes or resistance to lockouts in furtherance of particular goals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union
flor, I like reading your posts, thanks for the entertainment, please continue...
can you elaborate on that?
If somebody has to file a complain to get what is their rights - do you think they want to stay and continue to work for the same sponsor? Sponsorship and visa systems with exit permits are jail sentences! Having to ask for documented permission - most time not granted!!! - to leave is WRONG!!!
and although the laborers were sent home, they get all their benefits and all money due them. But of course they lost their jobs, what do you expect? You report your employer, do you expect to be treated nice afterwards, better GO HOME!
In Qatar you can report abuse by your employer... labour law..... grievance center....
Flor - are you for real???? Have you tried those places (as a LABOURER)????
Give me a break - and others too please from all this top of your head ignorant talk!!!
you're good at it!
you can't understand me. You are a VERY VERY INTELLIGENT AND GOOD PERSON. So BACK OFF!
Flor you have just proved your lack of intelligence yet again, well done you are a dunce!!!
can still imposed it to Qatar?
Let's say Qatar did not oblige, what's the scenario? Hosting will be forfeited? So no job for the workers, so can ITUC provide that lost jobs? To some extent, UNIONS are good but many times it was proven to be disaster. Look at our country, did Labor UNIONS gave a good result?
It's a give and take condition and REASONABLE demands. ANd if it reasonable, it means it is limited, not open-ended!
"but of course I have my limited resources and I can just do as much"
Precisely! That's why unions were formed in the first place. Strength through numbers.
And the reason the ITUC went to Fifa is because the World Cup does not belong to Qatar....it belongs to Fifa.
what he signed when he left his point of origin, then by all means, I agree with you. But recruitment fee is not with the host country but the point of origin.
In Qatar, you can report abuse by your employer, either to the labor or to the human rights (at least), there is a grievance center. There is a labor law that one can use to report abuse.
What this international human group should do is put offices here and give assistance to whoever who wants to pursue reporting. Not going to FIFA and asked such demands as if they are making it their hostage!
And if anyone here really want to stand-up for the poor workers, then do it themselves. Help them not by ranting here but on-hand. A lot of times I use my position to help these laborers get a fairer condition but of course I have my limited resources and I can just do as much. But at least I tried and had help so many already but no need to rant and whine which I find all dirty politics.
For those with who think that such action is just Doha bashing, an almost identical situation has happened in Abu Dhabi at the proposed Guggenheim Museum:
The Guggenheim’s Abu Dhabi outpost faces a boycott from a group of 130 international artists, curators and writers who say they will refuse to cooperate on the project until working conditions for labourers building the $800m museum are improved.
The petition, published online and addressed to Richard Armstrong, the director of the Guggenheim Foundation and its New York museum, says: “Human rights violations are currently occurring on Saadiyat Island, the location of the new museum.” It cites a 2009 report by the advocacy group Human Rights Watch, which says it “has documented a cycle of abuse that leaves migrant workers deeply indebted, poorly paid, and unable to defend their rights or even quit their jobs”. According to a release posted on the Human Rights Watch website last night, “each of the 94 workers interviewed for the report said he paid between $1,800 and $4,100 in recruitment fees prior to his employment, highlighting the nearly universal acceptance of this practice in the UAE.” Most of the workers on the project come from the Indian subcontinent and live in a specially built housing complex on Saadiyat Island, which Armstrong visited this autumn and the Guggenheim says “has set a high standard for workers' accommodations in the region”.
...
This is not the first time the Human Rights Watch has issued protests against labour conditions in the United Arab Emirates. In 2007, it asked the French government to stand up for the rights of workers constructing the Louvre’s planned branch in Abu Dhabi, also on Saadiyat Island. And last year, it applauded New York University’s announcement that it will require all companies working on its new campus in Abu Dhabi to reimburse workers for any recruiting fees, bar them from confiscating worker passports, and require them to provide 30 days of annual leave, health insurance, and pay for overtime, among other benefits.
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Artists-boycott-Guggenheim-Abu-Dhabi-project/23383
Why can't the people in power in Qatar just man up and actually admit that there is a problem? Why keep denying it, or pointing to other countries? It's akin to a rapist telling police to let him go, because other people rape women, and THEY haven't been arrested.
The pressure from the Abu Dhabi boycott forced the developer of the museum to appoint Price Waterhouse Coopers to oversee the workers' conditions.
Why can't people in Qatar just try for once to treat migrant Asian workers with some respect and dignity? If they want to be seen as a developed country which respects human rights and observes ethical standards, this might be a good place to start.
anyway, just rant and whine 'til 2022! Just watch your heart!
Flor what the hell do you mean unknowingly that is what everyone wants who didn't support the bid, what a load of crap. I didn't support the bid but now they have the cup I have said many times I hope they make the most of the opportunity, but as such they are open to the worldwide spotlight. What FIFA does is up to them.
touch a nerve does it Tony?
Well Peter, one thing I did, I unveiled the beast in you, great job you racist westerner!
Well they say they want to popularize the game. Well if that was the case would it not have been better having the games in say Indonesia, Uruguay, India,Nigeria, etc where there would be huge opportunities to make the game more popular and get a lot of youth interested. The problem here is this FIFA is led by a old and going senile tyrant called Sepp Blatter who has been stuck in his chair for so long and who has very little idea what he is leading the rest of the football loving world into
(who is against Qatar hosting WC2022) wants. It will be a win-win (?) for everyone (they think).
If Qatar give-up, those who were bribed (if it's true) and those other allegations will just disappear and everyone will be happy!
Is that what you want, too, Raven?
For sure, FIFA will not take the award by their own, right?
Or you are expecting such scenario?
basically a lot of people want ot ignore inconvenient truths and they could do that before Qatar started to take more of a active role in the world at large. Now they reap what they sow and just because they have a sycophantic press here, does not mean other press organisations around the world are quite so tame. I know it must irk the naysayers that they cannot conveniently sweep these truths under the carpet perhaps they should spend less time getting annoyed with the just criticism and take a long hard look at what actually goes on here.
Flor where have people said they are waiting for Qatar to "give it up"....Qatar have won the bid, and now they have they are open to the worldwide scrutinizing that goes with hosting one of the biggest events on the planet...
Qatar will never give-in to such demand. If ever, not because of ITUC or FIFA or because of anything else. Let Qatar mature naturally.
How long have been the development of ME been going on? ANd the workers condition never changed dramatically ever since! MAybe in the next 50 years!
here here Peter well said....
I don't think anyone is saying here that Qatar should give up the world cup, I for one am not saying that.
BUT, Qatar needs to accept the spotlight and just criticism on human rights abuses here -human rights organisations and others have certainly had this on their radar for quite some time. I would say, grow up, you want to play on the world stage, you have to accept what goes along with that and scrutiny is the watchword
all along are just waiting for Qatar to GIVE-UP! Sorry, guys, it won't happen.
But if it did happen, do you thin who's the real loser? Qatar or the workers? Now you want objective discussion?
This ITUC action, why only now? Are they really for the workers right or ..................?
Can anyone define the word "hostage"?
I think what Tony is trying to say is that we should not criticise Qatar because his perception other countries (including Germany and the holocuast??!! weird) are not judged or criticised in the same way.
what utter nonsense, if we all felt like that, nothing would ever be done about the atrocious way workers are treated here!!!
The problem with most Arabs is that they are ignorant. Seriously, even the educated ones strike me upon just talking with them. They have this I-KNOW-ALL attitude and I am yet to meet a professional one. By professional I mean punctual, honest, realistic, etc and not just a suit a tie and a stupid pointy shoes.
It happened that the ball is in their court now. They have the money. But history tells us that the ball never stay in the same court at all times. The day will come when these labor prisoners will own these OWL looking humans.
Mind you that I don't hate them. I just pity them. I really do. They have NO CLUE how things work and they think they got it all under control ;)
Well everybody irest my case I will argue with some people on this thread in 10 yrs when they are older or maybe incidentally more intelligent.
For the others and only for them, I reiterate my point stated earlier in simpler words:
Qatar is not the only country with such problems, however, it is the only WC host put under that much scrutiny, weird ain't it...Double standards rule our real world today for those who are up in the air...
You posted the link which suggested that workers in Brazil working on some stadia have gone on strike. Thus they are better treated than their counterparts here who do not have that option. Thus your assertion that Brazil and Qatar are of an equal standing regarding the treatment of their workers is shown to be false.
Qatar is not being punished in this situation; the Building Workers International have a duty to fight for the interests of construction workers worldwide, they and the ITUC have merely recommended to FIFA that they have "the power to make labour rights a requirement of the Qatari authorities who are hosting a World Cup."
Trade unionists have also said that Fifa has the power to impose decent working standards on Qatar, in the same way that it has introduced a code of working practice on footballs bearing the Fifa logo, in a bid to prevent child labour.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15772284
If you are suggesting that Qatar do not deserve to be under any scrutiny as world cup hosts than you are not living in the real world I'm afraid.
Regards
can u plz tell me what my point was just so that i know what i will be discussing with you?
i stated it clearly more than 3 times so please before engaging in anymore discussion with anyone of u i demand u state my point to check if u got it!!!
You have disproved your own point; the workers in Brazil have the RIGHT to strike against what they see as offences against them. What do you think would happen here if the same action was tried? That is what the ITUC is pointing out - the lack of workers rights here and their terrible working conditions......all for the sake of Qatar's vanity project.
thought the child abuse point was too challenging for you so i decided to argue with you on something at your reach. i don't think that these workers were on strike because of great working conditions, get in now or still to challenging? sorry but you should really think about who is embarassing him/herself.
Sadly enough, I cannot make it simpler, early vhildhood education is really not my thing.
so whats your point Tony? Thats right you don't have one....no mention of child labour building the staida...get real Tony, you are emabarrasing yourself!
Why are working conditions only bad at stadia site Raven??? here read something http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14956808 maybe u get real...
Is child labour building the stadia in Brazil? Get real Tony!
Dear all,
well I am sorry to have launched this debate as it seemed I am not getting through there, don't know if my point is hard to get or is it the language barrier.
I AM SAYING THAT THIS IS THE 1ST TIME THAT THESE THINGS ARE MENTIONED 11 YRS BEFORE AN EVENT AND THIS IS NOT THE 1ST COUNTRY THAT HAS THIS TYPE OF TROUBLE!!!MAN
IS IT SO HARD TO GET?!? I WILL GO ON THIS 1 BY 1 MAYBE SOMEONE WILL GET MY POINT.
BRAXIL IS IN 2014, HAVE YOU HEARD ANY ORG. COMPLAINING ABOUT CHILD LABOR THERE FOR INSTANCE?!? INSTEAD ALL EYES ARE ON BIN HAMMAM, A/Cs IN THE STADIA AND WORKING CONDITIONS IN QATAR! FOR GOD'S SAKE SUDDENLY THEY CARE ABOUT ALL THESE MATTERS ONLY IN QATAR.
AIN'T THAT A BIT WEIRD?!?
BE - but at least we are all talking about it and also the international community are now becoming aware. This surely must be the first step.
Qatar should have thought long and hard about bidding for such events, if they did not want the global community to lift up rocks and peer at the good, bad and the ugly that is Qatar
Whilst I would like to believe otherwise, I think this is just posturing and nothing concrete will be done.
Tony - I would say the crucial difference is not that Qatar is any worse than China, SA, Brazil etc but at least we are very aware of the working conditions in these countries and the human rights abuses that go on. I don't think that people are quite as aware about what goes on in ME countries, it certainly had never occurred to me that this was a problem in Qatar.
Good, hopefully having the world cup here will mean a spotlight on the terrible working conditions suffered not only by those working as labourers but also the silent domestic army of qatar!
I'm sure that Russia, Chile, Brazil and Mexico are not great for workers, but they are certainly no worse than here, anyway thats another debate which can be argued for and against, of course Fifa has double standards, how else can they award a country the WC when they had the HIGH risk rating from the FIFA tech team, and now there are debates on wether they can even deliver the A/C stadiums as promised....anyway I'm going off tangent, if this pressure from the unions on FIFA gets better conditions for the construction workers then its a winner.
Raven I would like you to please google the following on woorking conditions in countries like Russia, Brazil, South Africa, Chile, Mexico, not to mention that nothing compares bad working conditions with Holocausts & Apartheid, still these countries were not "punished".
Double-standards has always been an issue with Fifa, event S.A had been second to Germany for the 2006 WC with no reason then they gave it to them in 2010!
Come on Tony, use some common sense, you can't compare previous hosts conditions for workers to Qatars...South Africa previous host, could be better but def better than Qatar, Germany 2006 no comparison, South Korea/Japan 2002 again no comparison. Construction workers conditions are apalling and as close to slavery as you can get....keep the whole issue in perspective man!
We all know that previous bids were given to countries, accusations of bribery had emerged but not blown out of proportion like in the case of Qatar! Also, look at the list of countries that hosted the WC do they all have a good record of human respect or workers rights?
It would be naive to believe so.
That doesn't mean that the conditions of the workers should not be improved, it just means that suddenly, everybody wants to make the world a better place or no WC for Qatar!!!
Nothing will happen... some more dollars and then this person will be silent again...
they didn't knew this before?
Fifa just came to know this about this?
for what purpose they came before? when they visited the qatar? they went to Corniche to have a cup of tea?
leave it... the more we discuss the more its painful... then some of our respectable members will divert the topic to nationality bashing and then they will start abusing other arab countries especially Saudi Arab, and then they will discuss rap cases, and for next one week again the same situation...
Qatar will be same, nothing will change, Laws will not change, if this time it is for real, they will increase few bucks salary of labor... thats all..
GOJ...it would depend on the situation in 2022...may be these very workers would be the most favored audience that time....:)
.. and to imagine that this very same workers will be kept hidden far away from the games venues and not allowed into the stadiums and world cup venues to even have a look at the games or other events.
i agree with Fathima, most of the workers don't have any idea as to what kind of living and working conditions they may be having here. And until they arrived here they don't have any other option but to accept their pathetic condition. I hope this will be a wake-up call to the Qatari Authorities to improve the living and working conditions of the workers.
yeah fathima i agree with you..... i was raised in arabia so i know it as well as anyone would..... what goes on is absolutely shameful..... even while hiring a maid for domestic help, they insist on sending a photograph first, they contact agents in the sub-continent and tell them to send " good looking young girls " ........ that in itself explains a lot!
i dont understand! why is there so much treachery? why cant they all just be human! money doesnt give you anything! when u die you go in a 10 riyal cloth!
i agree with you mate, and we aint talking just one country! its the same with all of the middle east ( G.C.C rather )........ all they wanna see is the glitz and glamour! the skyscrapers and shopping malls..... flaunt of money! you know what the state of these so called " sheikhs " would be if there were no natural resources? they would be walking the desert with camels and eating dates, the resources are god given.....they want that but they dont want his best resource he has given to mankind..... mankind itself! i seriously hate people who rate money over a person! and judge him by his financial state! and not the heart!
the world can be a much better place than what it is! if people have a little courtesy and common sense!
arabs are supposed to set an example to muslims and the muslim world in general, but all they do is ruin its image to the outside world! what happens in KSA, UAE and Qatar is absolutely pathetic, all these innocent workers who built the massive sky scrapers are not allowed to go anywhere near them after completion! and while they are at work they have to bear such hardship! and even if there are casualties and people die its not even reported in the press! there is absolutely no freedom of speech in the arab world!
no wonder muslims all over the world are facing a hard time, and arabs have to be partially blamed for that!
one big sign that judgement day is near and there would be bad times is.... " houses will be taller than mosques " ..... the worlds tallest building is to be made right next to the kaabah in makkah! whats wrong with you people? what are you trying to prove?
Why is assumed that this will 'rob' Qatar of the world cup?
Isn't that basically saying that you don't believe the workers' rights need to improve, therefore Qatar will lose the event?
Why not post something praising this as one of the few positive things that any organisation has done recently in helping the plight of the Asian laborers who get so royally screwed in this country?
Dont think anything is going to change as these are the manoeuvers prevalent in high profile cases when each one shows that he is doing its job the right way which actually they did not when it should have been done, to befool the common man ... and this is not the last time that we hear such concerns, we will hear them till 2022 or may be even after.
I've been expecting something like this since the moment they announced the World Cup will be held in Qatar, I can't imagine the government wasn't expecting it.
Let's hope the Leadership take this as an opportunity to change the conditions of workers in Qatar, rather than just ignoring it.
If they choose to ignore it, then they will end up villanized in the press and this will be a major PR failure for the country.
Little do they then realize of how some workers are actually deceived into coming here. Many of them have no clue how pathetic their living conditions are until they arrive. And for many going back then is not an option as they would have had to take out loans back home in order to get here in the first place hence will need to first and foremost settle those debts.
Bang on there jjj75...
Just wait for the naysayers who don't like anything but praise being heaped upon Qatar. They will say, 'if the workers don't like it they can just go home or not come in the first place'
they are either, ignorant, stupid or just plain malicious
I agree with those who are for this movement !!!
Dunno what page s_isale is on but I believe racism is not the topic here .. although racism is a big problem over here !
I have seen people of Nepali, Indian and Filipino origin being mistreated in camps... $hit living conditions .. bad daily sustenance .. all so that the employer and the sponsor can make a quick buck .. for a fistful of dollars ;)
I seriously think that the sponsorship rule over here is closely linked to the concept of owning slaves .. how else can you justify the injustice and prejudiced behavior that you encounter here ????
Many predicted this was the sort of exposure Qatar could expect if they won the bid, now they have, here it is!! And if it gets better working conditions for the workers building the stadia thats a plus!
If indeed by this warning ITUC can bring about a change in the terrible conditions many laborers are enduring then more power to them,Inshallah!
not sure what rio ferdinand has to do with it.
But the workers pay and conditions are nothing short of slavery in most cases
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15766375.stm
England and Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand has said he is astonished by Sepp Blatter's claim that football does not have on-field racism problems.
The Fifa president said incidents on the pitch could be settled by a handshake after the game, but later claimed he had been misunderstood.
"Tell me I have just read Blatter's comments wrong... if not then I am astonished," said Ferdinand on Twitter.
so whats your problem with the post s_isale?
A bit late for that now, why are FIFA moaning about it after they took their money
Have you seen the worker's living conditions in camps. All for a meager salary to somehow manage to feed their families two squire meals a day. These are the workers who will be building all the stadia and other facilities to make the mega event WC 2022 happen. If you can't respect humanity, you don't deserve to be respected. Why call it an 'excuse' rather than a prerequisite. I think this is an step in the right direction.
a lot of hogwash...