The same has happened since and will continue to do so. The strong will always rule the weak...Until ofcourse the United Confederation of Planets ensures that Earth falls into line and has a single government..
Colonial powers divided countries at their will and ignored tribal and ethnic territories. The Conference of Berlin divided Africa to please the colonial powers. Yes, the result of this are the conflicts between tribes and states in Africa now!
It seems your destiny post colonial depends on the previous coloniser. Argentina, Colombia and Cuba, ruled by Spain all crap. Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong ruled by the UK thriving countries. All countries in Africa, crap regardless of the colonising power.
actually , we dont need an apology , because colos done great things in all countries been colonized , we should say thank you colos , still the hospital in my city build be Brit colo , so why do I have to ask for a pology huh , wt i can say is this , please welcome back coz we need you .
Marco, well, those colonial rulers then were certainly self serving, as pretty much all rulers are, but corrupt? I have to sincerely say that I do not know if they were or not.
Is Malaysia, Singapore have doing well today because of the this colonial legacy you mentioned ? And if So, then why haven't nations like Zimbabwe and Argentina which are now disaster economically propser as much? Even though both were ruled the same colonial powers?
Why? There noeledge since history will show what has happened. As far as "making amends".. That means that you are admitting doing wrong. This is clearly not the case. All empires rise and fall. The weak are ruled by the strong. Such is the way of the world. Should the guy who made the speech apologise for the wrongdoings of the Pharoahs and their use of slave labour ?
NM: If we agree that the colonial political/Economical strucutre and their policies were corrupt and corrupting to the core then we understand that corruption can breed only corruption.
However, that's not to say the post-coloninal nations do not share in the heavy burdens of their present mess.
Most decolonisation of the European empires, which is who you are getting at, finished in the 1960s. I think it's too hard to distinguish now what is a colonial legacy and what is just a f&&k up of their own making. Malaysia, Singapore have done well, Zimbabwe and Argentina are a disaster economically.
Moza: although you make some valid points there, i'm just going to repeat my eariler post to you.
We as generations of present time we can only observe the impact and amount of neglect caused by recent colonies.
now coming to the second part of your comment regarding the Jewish state which the Arab invaded. I think you have made a great mistake by not attending your history classes becuase when the armies went in to Palestine it was ruled by the Romans not the Jewish and the armies who went in to Palestine were people of from allmixes of racial background they had the Yemenites, The Egyptians, The people from past kingdoms of Jordan and Tabuk.
Well after the apology then what? Compensation? Good luck getting the out of the broke Spanish, Portuguese and Italians..... However the gulf Arabs should be able to afford compensation for their invasions of Persia, North Africa and the Levant. maybe they should compensate Israel for turning a Jewish state into an Arabic one by conquest. Now that I would like to see.....
Well NM: With over 200 years of colonisation and syatematic breaking down of the colonial wealth to make the colonial powers rich, driving the colonies into two world wars then leaving them high and dry ,and even mow making a mess of the market by Global western influenced banks and bad investments, I think some people have a valid point to make on their side of the argument.
Marco, do you think the current situation the nations you mentioned are in are caused by their colonial past or by the people that are actually ruling those nations now?
Moza: while I partially agree with what you have said that everyone was at it at some point in time, however as generations of present time we can only observe the impact and amount of neglect caused by recent colonies who are now warring on each other, funding terrorism, producing fear on its peoples who in turn flee to industrial nations looking for a better life.
I think the problem is where do you draw the timeline? 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000? I think it is good for all countries to recognise their past but you can't blame the current generation for their ancestors deeds. Germany took the route of apologising and was accepted back by its neighbours, Japan has never apologised and it's neighbours resent that even to this day.
No nation on earth is without sin in this respect.
KR: I think acknowledgment of ones past and making amends can help in this caseit will does improve international relations with other countries. It helps form the bonds of trust and perhaps lead us into a new era of diplomacy.
As for those folks who say history is in the past and has no reflection on our current state, may end up looking forward to some other country wanting to invade and then use the same excuse later on down the line to state that this is all history.
Big question! but how is it going to change anything?
This question has come up a few times in my mind as well when I heard once that GB had apologized to India for Gen.Dyer's decision to shoot a peaceful group of people at Jalianwala Bagh near Amritsar in North India.
Birt: I was reading a speech done at Al-Azhar in Egypt entitled
(Al-Azhar and Africa Challenges and Ambitions) in which Tayyeb said that what the West had done was an "indelible crime" which requires a historic apology. What do you think?
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interesting subject.
IMO apologies are needed for special events (genocide, power abuse,...) not for colonisation as a whole.
The motives for colonization have till now broadly been Gold, God and Glory!!
In the future, it would only be Gold..that is, wealth or resources... but some form of colonization will remain nevertheless.
The same has happened since and will continue to do so. The strong will always rule the weak...Until ofcourse the United Confederation of Planets ensures that Earth falls into line and has a single government..
Colonial powers divided countries at their will and ignored tribal and ethnic territories. The Conference of Berlin divided Africa to please the colonial powers. Yes, the result of this are the conflicts between tribes and states in Africa now!
It seems your destiny post colonial depends on the previous coloniser. Argentina, Colombia and Cuba, ruled by Spain all crap. Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong ruled by the UK thriving countries. All countries in Africa, crap regardless of the colonising power.
hey every one ,
actually , we dont need an apology , because colos done great things in all countries been colonized , we should say thank you colos , still the hospital in my city build be Brit colo , so why do I have to ask for a pology huh , wt i can say is this , please welcome back coz we need you .
Marco, well, those colonial rulers then were certainly self serving, as pretty much all rulers are, but corrupt? I have to sincerely say that I do not know if they were or not.
orite folks time to hit the sack will continue this tomorrow :P In the meantime keep it good and civil on here :P
Moza: and here a question comes to mind.
Is Malaysia, Singapore have doing well today because of the this colonial legacy you mentioned ? And if So, then why haven't nations like Zimbabwe and Argentina which are now disaster economically propser as much? Even though both were ruled the same colonial powers?
Why? There noeledge since history will show what has happened. As far as "making amends".. That means that you are admitting doing wrong. This is clearly not the case. All empires rise and fall. The weak are ruled by the strong. Such is the way of the world. Should the guy who made the speech apologise for the wrongdoings of the Pharoahs and their use of slave labour ?
I thnk not!
NM: If we agree that the colonial political/Economical strucutre and their policies were corrupt and corrupting to the core then we understand that corruption can breed only corruption.
However, that's not to say the post-coloninal nations do not share in the heavy burdens of their present mess.
Most decolonisation of the European empires, which is who you are getting at, finished in the 1960s. I think it's too hard to distinguish now what is a colonial legacy and what is just a f&&k up of their own making. Malaysia, Singapore have done well, Zimbabwe and Argentina are a disaster economically.
Moza: although you make some valid points there, i'm just going to repeat my eariler post to you.
We as generations of present time we can only observe the impact and amount of neglect caused by recent colonies.
now coming to the second part of your comment regarding the Jewish state which the Arab invaded. I think you have made a great mistake by not attending your history classes becuase when the armies went in to Palestine it was ruled by the Romans not the Jewish and the armies who went in to Palestine were people of from allmixes of racial background they had the Yemenites, The Egyptians, The people from past kingdoms of Jordan and Tabuk.
So it wasn't really only Arabs.
Marco, so you are saying that one thing led to the other...ok, fine.
But those nations have been independent for a while,and have had the freedom to govern as they see fit.
I hear many people from those countries bitterly complaining about corruption, bribery, nepotism etc.
Do you think that these things exist because of their colonial past?
Well after the apology then what? Compensation? Good luck getting the out of the broke Spanish, Portuguese and Italians..... However the gulf Arabs should be able to afford compensation for their invasions of Persia, North Africa and the Levant. maybe they should compensate Israel for turning a Jewish state into an Arabic one by conquest. Now that I would like to see.....
Well NM: With over 200 years of colonisation and syatematic breaking down of the colonial wealth to make the colonial powers rich, driving the colonies into two world wars then leaving them high and dry ,and even mow making a mess of the market by Global western influenced banks and bad investments, I think some people have a valid point to make on their side of the argument.
Marco, do you think the current situation the nations you mentioned are in are caused by their colonial past or by the people that are actually ruling those nations now?
Moza: while I partially agree with what you have said that everyone was at it at some point in time, however as generations of present time we can only observe the impact and amount of neglect caused by recent colonies who are now warring on each other, funding terrorism, producing fear on its peoples who in turn flee to industrial nations looking for a better life.
I think the problem is where do you draw the timeline? 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000? I think it is good for all countries to recognise their past but you can't blame the current generation for their ancestors deeds. Germany took the route of apologising and was accepted back by its neighbours, Japan has never apologised and it's neighbours resent that even to this day.
No nation on earth is without sin in this respect.
Noble thoughts MN..but if it happened, there would be countless apologies and expectations. Don't know what the world politics would be then like.
Big fish feeds on the small fish and the powerful prevails over the weak...thats the order of this world. Can it change?
KR: I think acknowledgment of ones past and making amends can help in this caseit will does improve international relations with other countries. It helps form the bonds of trust and perhaps lead us into a new era of diplomacy.
As for those folks who say history is in the past and has no reflection on our current state, may end up looking forward to some other country wanting to invade and then use the same excuse later on down the line to state that this is all history.
History surely repeats it self all the time.
Big question! but how is it going to change anything?
This question has come up a few times in my mind as well when I heard once that GB had apologized to India for Gen.Dyer's decision to shoot a peaceful group of people at Jalianwala Bagh near Amritsar in North India.
would an apology be enough? What about the resources siphoned away and being siphoned away by the companies representing the colonial interests?
Birt: I was reading a speech done at Al-Azhar in Egypt entitled
(Al-Azhar and Africa Challenges and Ambitions) in which Tayyeb said that what the West had done was an "indelible crime" which requires a historic apology. What do you think?
hmm, I think you are generalizing too much, majority of western countries did not have colonies.
but should any country that invade another country, apologize -YES is my answer to that.
NO! There are colonial powers in the East also.
History has shown that such powers have always existed and will continue to do so.