Brutality and Genocide

Goldie123: I agree with you. I think the root of these issues are to be powerful in all means in the world. So they use all kinds of means i.e. Religion, Money etc.

In history,your enemies are visible to you but Today, people are confused " Who is friend and Who is Enemy".

In this case major part play by politicians and News Channels ( TVs & News Papers) .They actually are not honesty and mislead general public.

Goldie123,

As I said before, the "West" should stop giving money or aid to Pakistan or to any other country as they always end up getting blamed for the bad and the good.

Yes expat and average people are trapped between these 2 extremes and the trouble is that we don't see and end to this chaos as more money and human resource is being pumped in wars and still people like bush get elected twice. I think things will be much better If the super powers, particularly 1 just stop interfering and let the natural evolution process take course and rather concentrate on their own financial crisis, we will have a lot happier people and world.

Nic I guess you also agree with me except the current situation involves physical force being used along with financial and other Means as it is not just PK army but also US forces are actively involved in attacks in PK territory through regular armed forces,Air force, NATO and also use private security contractors. Just last week a US national was captured in one of the biggest city in Pakistan carrying fake passport hiding his identity, carrying illegal weapon and killing 2 people on the street. and Now the US embassy and US govt is claiming diplomatic immunity for him which is not permitted under the law. He is said to be a private security contractor working for CIA.

Check the link

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The path for such activities are created through obtaining popular support through propaganda by the bureaucracy and establishments and the general public don't realize that inadvertently they are not just supporting genocide and cruelty but also attracting more hatred and enmity.

Well said..

I would just add something to your statement...

"History is full of conquest and war. EVERYWHERE. It's unfortunate that some Westerners and some Muslims do not study history better and hang onto the notion of desirable western colonization or the 100% peaceful spread of Islam."

History is full of conquest and war. EVERYWHERE. It's unfortunate that some Westerners and some Muslims do not study history better and hang onto the notion of desirable western colonization, the 100% peaceful spread of Islam or the 100% extremism of Islam.

Well expat, I guess we more or less agree to each other as I never blamed the general masses of the west and it was always the governments, however this is also a fact that these governments are elected by the masses and the establishments and Bureaucracy in these states are putting fears of different sort in their mind to force them to allow the government to do things which otherwise they will not be able to do like the free use of force against other states.

History is full of conquest and war. EVERYWHERE. It's unfortunate that some Westerners and some Muslims do not study history better and hang onto the notion of desirable western colonization or the 100% peaceful spread of Islam.

And I have made my point, too. You can't efectively stereotype the West based on the opinions of a few on qatarliving, since even here we have examples of Westerners who agree with you that this is a terrible abuse and that no one should give funding to the Pak government.

Goldie,

Exactly, "History considers the whole region to be quite peaceful and friendly."...until a certain invasion took place that was beyond a physical one.

That is precisely why I wrote the comment above:

"Gupta and Pala Empires were examples of peaceful civilized successful societies in such ancient times and then something happened that changed the peace of the territory for ever".

Expat I have made my point and wanted to allow others to send their comments too. Nic is trying to say that it is all because of religion and local customs which forces people to such attitude.

I don't think so. To comment about customs or religion you have to first look into the history of that place and to see whether they have been acting Weirdly all the time. And I don't think so. History considers the whole region to be quite peaceful and friendly. However the region for the last 700 years have seen invaders, looters and war mongers. USA is one of them. USA should not fund terrorism in the name of war against terrorism A lot of people object and are more interested in Taliban brutal videos so that they can speak against Muslims, but they ignore to think as to y would someone go to such an extreme that they are even ready to blow him/her self to kill others (whether you wanna call it Jihad or terrorism)

It is because of such behavior that army of terrorist get organized. And it is the US funding and active support for such brutality which makes US hate able in the whole world.

I must add that they are only a couple of videos and there are thousands of incidents like this, many of which are carried out by NATO or US forces and some by their allies or paid fighters or private contractors like black water.

I am resending you the link below to show you the US policies, which undoubtedly is true:

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Sillyguy and Goldie, they never respond. Is it because it clashes with the stereotype they are trying to paint? Come on mates! :P

Goldie,

Where did you read that in any of my comments?

What I wrote is:

"Yes, the west should stop giving money to Pakistan and they should stop giving money or aid to any other country."

I am not defending the US, what I am doing is trying to point you towards the root cause of the problem, even before the US got there!

Can you understand the difference?!

Nic it seems like you want to defend US and ready to go to the extreme no matter what happens. Fair enough If you don't wanna accept the reality. Close your eyes and you will not c whats happening. By the way I have another video for you. May be with this you may re-think about how US is involved in shattering peace in the world.

Check the link:

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Nic: I lost hahahahaha ..... I think u need cold water. Go and have some. People like u simply do not deserve to discuss issue.

You are happy in your free country. Nice to hear that and be good at your country but make sure remain upto your own country.

theexiledsaint,

that's unfortunately so true and so many are indoctrinated into not understanding those words.

AVERAGE,

Are you below it?

Are you lost in translation? What you wrote makes no sense and it is totally unrelated to what I have been writing here...

On the other hand, denial is the fuel for what your country is going through.

You know what? I couldn't care less. It’s your country, it’s your mess, please keep it all to yourself.

I am very happy with my secular free country :)

=end of our dialogue=

Remember guys science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings....

Nic so u do not want to hear what is happening wrong in your country but u want to stick your nose into other's business. You said ask for condemn. I think you need start from your home country first.

they are mainly inspired by the "brilliant" idea of Jihad.

from where those suicide bombers geting aid . who incourage them ???

higher_garage.......This is the easiest route I see many "educated" Pakistanis take.

Whenever, someone asks them to condemn what is wrong in todays Pakistani society, pronto they will say look at Kashmir.

It's not even funny that regularly so many people are dying in Pakistan due to suicide bombings, Shia-Sunni riots, Pakistani moderate leaders like Taseer are killed by their own Islamic fanatic bodyguard, yet pakistanis remain obssessed with Kashmir.

sandtest,

It’s a taboo, because the ideology in question protects it self and survives on imposing a non-challenging policy!

No one who follows that ideology is able or authorized to question anything related to it!

Just take this insignificant example of QL: most of the participants wouldn’t dare to say what they think when it comes to this topic and others would just attack who dares to challenge the topic.

according to ur profile . qatari ? but i know witch country u belongs . why did u forgot those members of TTP captured SWAT by help of some there enemies nations. even the governament accepeted all there demands for sharia in taht valley . still they didnot stop want to ruell islam abad too . how many they butchered in the name of isalm . how they lashed girlls in public in front of crowed . that time enemies midas how portray pakistan . i apreceiate ur love for pushtoons & baluchs . why u r too blind & deaf cant see what happening in indian ocupaied kashmir . ohh may be they r not pushtoons R baluch thats why . :-D

Why is the Taboo?...the focus of debate should be this.

I see a lot of Pakistani media intellectuals cry foul when a drone strikes some remote area in South Waziristan, however these same so called intellectuals keep defeaning silence when a rabid Mullah gives provocative speeches after Friday prayers painting America, Israel & India as evils.

This is the morale hypocrisy in Pakistan today.

Gupta and Pala Empires were examples of peaceful civilized successful societies in such ancient times and then something happened that changed the peace of the territory for ever…

not china :(

I liked ur signature line MP, but were you made by china too!! ;b

if u cant stop them, divert them towards peace!!

where dishum dishum ?

Lemme grab my bob corn n bebsi !

Dhishum...Dhishum is about to begin.

Sandtest,

The problem is the taboo over the debate of such topic.

Until the root causes are not acknowledged, you will always have these problems within certain "cultures".

Some 5hit stirrers are doing there best competing in this forum.

^^^ Tell this to any Pakistani, and he will say that Islam is the best thing happened to subcontinent, 12 th century Bin Qasim the Mughal invader and rapist is held as a hero in Pakistan.

Those Pakistanis consider Mughal Aurangzeb who brutally killed his father & brother-- as their hero, at the same time they hate Mughal Akbar because he was secular and adopted Indian/Hindu culture in his rule.

Goldie123,

No, I am not suggesting that at all. That’s non sense to even thing such a silly thought!

China, as an example is a very ancient civilization that manages to live at a certain degree of peace... maybe because a certain intolerant and revenge religion never reached their territory with the degree it reached the subcontinent... maybe its their genes, maybe its their landscape... who knows?!

What I am sarcastically saying is that each nation should have never left their ports of origin!

Like that, you wouldn’t probably be typing on a computer and the bloody Pakistani army wouldn’t be massacring their people with the western money and weapons. Each country would be happily living in its isolation!

Nic are u suggesting that civilization only exists in US and that the rest of the world are uncivilized. You must be joking ye. and yes some people cant live in peace and cant live others live in peace by using all means including dirty money and dirty politics, traitors etc. You have not condemned these brutal actions even once, I guess you like it this way. I must admire your logic and love and support for brutality....

Also, Genocide is nothing new to Pakistani Army!

Ask Bangladeshis, how millions were slaughtered by Paki generals during independence of Bangladesh from East Pakistan.

Ask Kashmiri Pandits who have been ethnically elimintaed from Kashmir valley by Paki army funded militants.

But guess what, these things will never come in light because those killed are non-Muslims hence fair game!!

is being spent. Just sayin...

Goldie123,

Yes, the west should stop giving money to Pakistan and they should stop giving money or aid to any other country.

In fact they should have never started globalization, they should have left the uncivilized living in their primitive tribal life style and they should have never allowed them to enter the west.

How’s that for an ideal peaceful segregated world?!

Certain cultures or maybe religions or maybe genes, just can’t live in peace with others… the mess is always happening in the same spots, regardless who you choose to blame!

We can all post images of brutality from lots of countries. Your addition did nothing to substantiate your debate.

With regards to who ‘funds’ this- torture/genocide.

When the Pakistani government asked OR where given the money; they knew full well there would be conditions. Unfortunately with those conditions there will be some manipulation. Politics is a dirty business everywhere.

If my husband went to the bank and got a loan and he spent it on wine, beer or dirty women and then wasted the rest; I would not take that up with the bank, he would feel the wrath.

Perhaps the Pakistani people need to take that up with their own instead of blaming the west.

^^ Goldie why don't you ask Pakistani People first to Condemn their Army??

Tell you what, majority of Pakistanis still think that their army is the best thing ever happened to Pakistan. The extent of brainwashing and media control pakistani army has conducted on it's own population is beyond control now.

Go first bring one Pakistani who condemns his Army then ask others.

I would hate any of my money going to support that approach to supposedly stop terrorism.

First of all, if you are considering Paki Army Elites "show" as war on terror, I am sorry to say you are horribly mistaken same as western countries.

Let's get some straight facts about paki Army elites -- Pakistani Army Generals are wealthy, whisky sipping on par with any "developed" country at the same time these guys present a totally different face of Army in front of Paki Poppulation -- they say it's an Army of pious Muslims with Pakistani army Motto -- "Jihad Fi Sabillah" -- i.e. Jihad in the name of Allah.

Paki Army generals for decades have fooled Pakistani population, grabbed power and owning most of the industries in Pakistan. While pretending to be pious Muslims they are neck deep in all worldly riches included wine and women.

Obviously to sustain their hold on Power and their own well being they need MONEY.

Who will give Money?? America.

Why?...Becuase Anerica wants taliban & AQ to be destroyed.

Who can allow this? of course Paki Army in exchange for Money.

Friends this post is for you to condemn brutality, who ever is committing it and who ever is supporting it. Whether their own people, US or anyone else. Any body who carries our, supports or funds such activities should be stopped. Sarcastic comments just to prove the innocence of US or Europe by comparing it with other tyrants is just like fooling your own self.

A person who plans supports funds or even the people who don't condemn brutality are all equally responsible for such violations of Human Rights.

I would cut off ALL governmental aide to Pakistan. It is too easy to get into the wrong hands (which is basically all of the Pakistani corrupt regime) and be used in ways that ultimately undermine their own (US foreign policy). Let NGOs build schools, hospitals if they want but NO MONEY from the government.

It's too bad I'm not the American President :)

the youtube links here....

I assume what it is about.

Qatar Living is not the forum to discuss the issues.

Post on some Pakistani forum or join some Anti-Pakistan FB pages and group and vent out your anger.

I can post hundered of videos against your videos...

Ye Pakistan Army killing Pakistani people in the so called war against terrorism funded by US.

In the same way Hosni Mobarak Regime was funded by US or Saddam Hussein regime was funded by US against Iran.

I am applying a simple rule here that if funding terrorism is as bad as terrorism itself, then this is terrorism and who ever is funding it is equally a terrorist.

I am not saying that Pakistanis or Egyptians or Iraqi Personnel are or were innocent and I am certainly not suggesting that the people in the US or EU will support that but hey their governments do fund and support this making them equally terrorists as the ones who are executing this.

Support peace and not genocide just because you are western or American.

Goldie, YES! (Sorry to interrupt) The West should stop funding ALL other countries and start funding themselves.

Nic it is not totally US or Europeans fault as I agreed with you on that. at least appreciate and condemn all who is committing it or supporting it.

Do you agree that this is brutal? Do you agree that PK Army is brutal and should not be doing it? Don't you agree that USA and Europe should stop funding the PK government and the Army to carry on these activities?

And if you don't agree, then I guess you enjoy brutality

but theexiledsaint....somebody MUST be blamed! Otherwise one would have to be responsible for one's own decisions...surely NOT!

Maybe Pakistan should stop blaming other countries for its problems, (US, India etc). As the report says its Pakistani's killing Pakistani's.

the root cause of all this killings and genocide is the american aid and help to this despots that is being given to this despots who use it to terrorize, brutalize and murder their own people and the best examples of this aid misuse are Pakistan and now Egypt.

Yesterday the Egyptian air force was using the air force planes (gifts from the usa) to terrorize its own people

Intelligent this is an attempt to show you the reality which you may not see or ignore otherwise. We should all bash such activities and anybody who is involved. And let me add that this is a small picture and does not include the drone attacks by US military and the wide spread operation in around 1000 sq. KM around the border of Afghanistan.

Guys read the news and study it. You can have the whole picture of how God's finest creation on earth is brutally murdered every day.

Nic, agreed.

i knew it was the american's and european's fault!

who else would disturb such peaceful people!

To me it is simple terrorism against their own people which is widely supported through all means by US and Eurpoe and the picture presented is that this is a war against terrorism.

This is not a war, this is mass murder. You can't even do such things in war? Just imagine what will be the state of mind of the people who has and are suffering from this. Don't you think they will or they should react or retaliate. Don't you think that these people have every right to hate their Armed forces and any body who is funding and supporting them?

If you put your self in the situation, don't you think you will fight back to defend yourself and your family? And who do you think is the terrorists here?

I must remind you that this has been happening for more then a decade.

Another bashing thread. Good efforts Goldie.

The west is such a horrible place to live and the Pakistani's are God's people. He really takes care of them. Probably time for another earthquake.....

And the root cause of this mess is?

Uncivilized behavior refers to behavior of individuals who are not able to co-exist and respect their fellow citizens in an organized and peaceful manner.

The archaic tribal socio-cultural and fanatic and uneducated religious social fabric is a major trigger for what you see in that f'ked up country!

I guess it is a bit of every thing though I will not call it an early stage of civilization rather an ugly face of civilization. Keep in mind that Pakistan Army is on the front lines of the so called war against terror and receives money, funding and weapons from US and EU and the corrupt Generals and politicians get their pocket money for this.

It is much cheaper for US to invest in Pakistan Army and get them to do the job rather then bring more soldier from US or EU which will be a huge burden on the USA economy besides they have hired them to do the dirty job and Pakistan Army have no fear or shame to be proud of doing what you saw here.

Is it the West's fault, the nature and culture of the people, an early stage of a civilization process or a bit of everything?