Female Muslim medics 'disobey hygiene rules'
Does anybody know what the procedure is in Qatar's Hospitals? Is there some compromise? Is the last point in the article valid. Cornellian, what have you been taught?
Just trying to get my head around the matter.
Daily Telegraph
By Julie Henry and Laura Donnelly
Last Updated: 2:36am GMT 03/02/2008
Muslim medical students are refusing to obey hygiene rules brought in to stop the spread of deadly superbugs, because they say it is against their religion.
Women training in several hospitals in England have raised objections to removing their arm coverings in theatre and to rolling up their sleeves when washing their hands, because it is regarded as immodest in Islam.
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Universities and NHS trusts fear many more will refuse to co-operate with new Department of Health guidance, introduced this month, which stipulates that all doctors must be "bare below the elbow".
The measure is deemed necessary to stop the spread of infections such as MRSA and Clostridium difficile, which have killed hundreds.
Minutes of a clinical academics' meeting at Liverpool University revealed that female Muslim students at Alder Hey children's hospital had objected to rolling up their sleeves to wear gowns.
Similar concerns have been raised at Leicester University. Minutes from a medical school committee said that "a number of Muslim females had difficulty in complying with the procedures to roll up sleeves to the elbow for appropriate handwashing".
Sheffield University also reported a case of a Muslim medic who refused to "scrub" as this left her forearms exposed.
Documents from Birmingham University reveal that some students would prefer to quit the course rather than expose their arms, and warn that it could leave trusts open to legal action.
Hygiene experts said last night that no exceptions should be made on religious grounds.
Dr Mark Enright, professor of microbiology at Imperial College London, said: "To wash your hands properly, and reduce the risks of MRSA and C.difficile, you have to be able to wash the whole area around the wrist.
"I don't think it would be right to make an exemption for people on any grounds. The policy of bare below the elbows has to be applied universally."
Dr Charles Tannock, a Conservative MEP and former hospital consultant, said: "These students are being trained using taxpayers' money and they have a duty of care to their patients not to put their health at risk.
"Perhaps these women should not be choosing medicine as a career if they feel unable to abide by the guidelines that everyone else has to follow."
But the Islamic Medical Association insisted that covering all the body in public, except the face and hands, was a basic tenet of Islam.
"No practising Muslim woman - doctor, medical student, nurse or patient - should be forced to bare her arms below the elbow," it said.
Dr Majid Katme, the association spokesman, said: "Exposed arms can pick up germs and there is a lot of evidence to suggest skin is safer to the patient if covered. One idea might be to produce long, sterile, disposable gloves which go up to the elbows."
discussed in Qatar
and will all end up
with someone in China
making a fast buck on long plastic gloves...
But I must add...
once I tried to put on my wife's gloves so I wouldn't dirty my hands while handling the coal for my barbecue... its a yicky feeling, it has a hospital smell and it takes forever to wear... and when it gets wet, your hand feels wet but its not really... its a very unreal feeling!
I can't imagine how long it will take for people to wear long plastic gloves!
I think you may be misinterpreting the bare below the elbows part... if they can wear surgical gloves, why not long gloves?...
I heard that some are refusing to disinfect with that stuff...
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I think the issue is that after discussions amongst health professionals a policy was reached that said 'bare below the elbow' and no exceptions, therefore there is not a choice to wear long gloves. So your wife or any other person not adhering to that rule would not practise in UK hospitals.
When in Rome and all that.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
My wife is a doctor and she dresses the Islamic way... she does roll up her sleeve when washing her hands, she just does it in private... and if at all she had to practise in the UK, she'd probably wear those long gloves which are even more hygienic... so I still don't know what the fuss is about...
Okay!
We talked about hairy Arm pits, the wear of long surgical gloves and exposed elbows for others to watch.
What about the exposure of :
1- HAIRY LEGS
2- Female Doctors with lots of facial hair.
3-The Hairy Birthmarks.
I would not mind looking at them.
Must be the XLT model with optional packages.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
I have seen a twelve toe stripper, I have seen one breasted stripper, I have seen a brainless stripper, but never in my life a one legged stripper! Quentin tarantino-Planet Terror--
It is not the issue of what one wears in the theatre but "rolling up their sleeves when washing their hands" that some (and I fully realise, and hope, it's a small minority) female medics take issue with. Doctors and nurses have to throughly wash their hands after every consultation in order to halt the spread of these very prevalent and dangerous bugs, so it's not just an issue regarding theatre work.
The article quotes 4 different teaching hospitals as having this issue raised by female medics so I don't think it is a propaganda issue either, its a reaction to the NEW hygiene regulations being brought in.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
i agree alexa this article is ridiculous....they can wash it in private and then place the gloves.
hashin..so its adey who has a problem with it..lol...
i agree alexa this article is ridiculous....they can wash it in private and then place the gloves.
hashin..so its adey who has a problem with it..lol...
If he has a full narcose he won't even remember his name let alone look and anyones elbows.
is that adey wants to watch the elbows of the lady surgeon who is operating on him WHILE she is operating on him...
alexa its just a glove..i dont think the article is talking about anything else but baring the arms.. The pic above shows the arms covered so where is the problem???
So what was the issue again, as I said a load of garbage- what they object to is the nurses and doctors covering their hair, but I myself find hair being covered much more hygienic than open hair where dandruff and other bacteria can fall from hair.
Um, just out of curiosity I decided to look up what a doctor wears to surgery, and well, really I think a niqab is more revealing. I mean WOOHOO check out that sexy....hair net. :S
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"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
Classic example of hyping a non issue...
the solution to the problem is simple and is suggested in the article itself...
Dr Majid Katme, the association spokesman, said: "Exposed arms can pick up germs and there is a lot of evidence to suggest skin is safer to the patient if covered. One idea might be to produce long, sterile, disposable gloves which go up to the elbows."
My wife is a doctor and she still can't stop laughing after reading this article...
To be quite honest if I am sick and need help anyone who is a doctor any help would be appreciated.
How do the hospitals in Qatar manage then, if nurses and doctors would make a problem with scrubbing before an operation or are in the middle of saving a life?
Do you think they will stop and think oh my arms a bared let me go and find some long gloves to cover my arms. Of course not they will save life first as they gave an oath to do this.
I have never seen anyone in an operating theatre not wearing arm coverings as the doctors are covered from head to foot in operation gowns and all have hair coverings there even males to prevent germs.
Just a load of garbage as usual.
skdkak..because they are skilled and the world needs doctors....i agree with gypsy this is propaganda from the media, doctors need to use gloves when doing surgery, i dont see what the problem with having surgical gloves that cover up to te elbows....
reminds me of my schooldays, most of my classmates were covered, but during duty hours of internship in the hospital, they took off their hijab and wore their nursing cap with proper uniforms but they're covered when coming in and out of the hospital.
simple question. why the H**L do they want to showoff by becoming doctors if they are not willing to do the necessary things associated with the job.
i never ever say such a thing abt women but i am forced to here. these girls should stay home and/or do some call center/back office work where u only need a key board or a telephone to work with.
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Hashin was talking about the "myth of terrorism" and how it's just propaganda from the Western media. Well I don't agree that the threat of terrorism is all propaganda, but articles like this are. This is probably one or two women who are refusing to do this and it's being blown out of proportion.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
i think as suggested at the end of the article that for the women who find this an issue, they can just use gloves that cover their arms up to their elbows after washing their hands..problem solved really!!!
and spring too..
It should be WInter, summer or Fall.
LOL!
whether winter or summer, those arms need to be wash.. whether or not wash... only they know..
ghee.. imagine, those hands suppose to be hands to heal but become hands to spread germs instead..
Diamond said:
I would imagine the majority of Muslim female medics just roll up their sleeves and get on with the job. Last time I was in a hospital no-one was checking out anyone's forearms.
I was wondering If the weather was winter and not summer for forearms checkup? Was the Air condition working properly in the summer? I'm glad they use deodorant for those arms pits all the time..
J/k
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
I have seen a twelve toe stripper, I have seen one breasted stripper, I have seen a brainless stripper, but never in my life a one legged stripper! Quentin tarantino-Planet Terror--
hey.. not they refuse to wash their arms, they refuse to roll up sleeves to the elbow for appropriate handwashing which they think is 'explosive' and against their religion believe.
They are refusing to wash their arms??? Are these women stupid?? How could they make it that far in their schooling and not realize the importance of sterilization.
I really dont know what to say :/
tra la la
If to wash arm up to the elbow is mandatory, those who doesn't like to comply should really quit the job than put the lives of many in danger.
Nonsense! What is wrong with those women ?? People's lives are in their hands! Grrr...I'm too mad right now to comment. I'll comment later.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
That certainly did make me smile dweller!
I had a friend working in Southwell Hospital in Ahmadi, Kuwait.
being a consultant, he was allowed to enter the womens wards.
He tells the story of one day walking down a corridor when round the corner came a very attractive Kuwait girl. He claims she covered her face by throwing her nightie over her head (leaving everything else exposed).
I know it's off thread but it may raise a smile.
Next Adey?...you obviously haven't been to a ladies salon here lately lol...pretty much everything gets waxed...it's VERY scarey.
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Love is the answer...
who was rather partial to ladies elbows - just his particular fetish!
Ha ha - checking out forearms! They will be waxing them next. :D
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
hey.. this is not something new.. i heard before that there were female doctors that refused to touch male patients by using their hands and used pen instead..
lol...I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I really don't know what doctors do in this part of the world but I'd be interested to know.
This is a UK newspaper...reminds me the story of some employees at a UK supermarket who refused to touch bottles of alcohol. Emmmm...wrong job choice perhaps?
I would imagine the majority of Muslim female medics just roll up their sleeves and get on with the job. Last time I was in a hospital no-one was checking out anyone's forearms.
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Love is the answer...
well i have never been to any clinic or hospital in KSA. were the lady docs using those black gloves at hospital too while at work???
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