I am a fundamentalist. Should not I? What should I do, not to be a fundamentalist and why should I do that?
I am a fundamentalist. Should not I? What should I do, not to be a fundamentalist and why should I do that?
I was taught the following fundamental beliefs:
---Not to lie (it is a big sin)
---Not to steal (it is a sin, you will be punished)
---Not to deceive anyone (it is a sin, you will loose friends)
---Not to bribe (you will go to hell)
---Respect the women (your heaven is under her (mother’s) feet)
---Love to kids (they are flowers of paradise gardens)
---Killing of a man is like killing the humanity (it is a big sin – you will be hanged in lieu)
---Take stand on your beliefs and don’t bow in front of an impious person / tyrant even if your life is threatened due to your beliefs. (Fear from your Creator only and not to any wrong person/ruler/community)
I always try to keep myself on that and I am proud to have atleast few fundamental values / teachings in my life. Is that alright or should I give-up some of them, not to be called a fundamentalist?
I believe a person who does a crime is as bad in Islam as is in Christianity or other religions, as a principle. Why we use the word fundamental for a criminal when criminals are not practicing fundamental values of their religion? Does it matter if his name is Muslim, Christian, Jew or Hindu? Why terrorist is not simply a terrorist and a criminal is not called criminal? Why we differentiate criminals by religions and hate the religion instead of that particular crime and the criminal ?
Before criticising me, please go throuh the definitions of fundamentalism, its origin, history and its export from America to other parts of the world. Please check the following links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamentalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism#Export_of_the_term_.22fundam...
Last year when I did return home, I did paid a visit to my local Parish. What I noticed that half of the time was spend on discussing and convincing in increasing the donation fee from 10% to 20%, meaning that you had to donate that money from your yearly salary.
The excuse they use, was for a construction of a new building adjacent and with more space and chairs for membership. That the cost for building anything was real high. Well finally after the service, the father approach me and told that I was "missed a lot" and he ask me , How are things going on for me lately? I told him: "Everything is going fine".
After good 3 minutes of conversation and formalism, he indicated to me that my membership fee has expired, since they kept my name in the records for the last three years, I was due the amount of 1500 dollars.
I took a deep breath and told him respectfully, that If I paid off that amount was my personal salvation was limited only to your bookkeepers and bank account only?
If I get laid off and returned home, will you help me paid all my utilities and help me get off my feet until I find a different job?
Since I noticed that you are wearing heavy gold rings in each hand and a nice handmade gold chain will you pawn it to lend me some money, free of interest rate, only with the minimum payment per month If I could afford it?
I end it my conversation with this comment to him.
Not only you call your self, a fisherman of souls, but an entrepreneur and miner of gold coins from the pockets of the poor and needy. SALVATION IS NOT FOUND IN A TIN CAN Church OR A BANK ACCOUNT! You ARE TO MY EYES A modern Pharisee, Hypocrite and a false Apostle.
How dare you sell me Membership for a SALVATION THAT WAS GIVING IN BLOOD ALREADY! Don't use the word of JesusChrist in vain for your own glory and vanity.
I walked away and did make sure that everyone hear me clearly and loud.
For what I understand 1 year later the Father resign and they got another one. No new building neither.
Good thing happen that they set up a huge kitchen for the homeless, a small habitat center for anyone homeless and a job orientation center with computers for who ever need it.
I wrote letter asking them in which way I could help them?
They mail me one letter with a brochure. Their whole goal was to bring help, changes and guidance to the public with no interest at all. That as a church in our community the right thing was to serve the community in their best without interest.
That is what I called fellowship and real christianity.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
you remind me of a heated argument with one non-muslim guy who told me that islam has been very strict on non-muslims and they have been forced to pay JIZYA. And I told him we muslims also have to pay 2.5% of our savings as zakat.
If we all stop paying taxes wouldnt it be wonderful, just like the Amish.
You will find many people in the world who are of the view that the people should be allowed to use narcotics in a controlled atmosphere. There are some countries that even give people free syringes to inject themselves with all kind of crap. Wouldnt it be great to allow people to use cocaine, weed, heroine etc etc. If they wanna die, let them die. After all its their life.
My point here is that maybe today we might not be able to understand the logic of banning all kind of narcotics or why adultery is a big no but one day we will.
Yes, it is our bad luck that we seek convenience when we can't fulfill the requirements. It starts from religion and ends up with development of a corrupt society.
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I understand completely what you are saying....enemies and friends are changed as the time changes....friends of past are enemies of today, killers have become heroes and heroes of the past are terrorist now.....
Buy the media and do whatever you want….the popular tools of governments these days…..
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blame modern rhetoric for making fundamentalist a bad word...
about defining one's religion, I wasn't referring to finding the truth about one's religion... I was referring to people's tendency to choose and adopt that which is convenient irresepective of what one thinks is right or wrong... In Islam... some scholars call it 'madhab shopping'... :-)
'A guy who walks into a classroom, just shoots everyone and walks out is a terrorist'
BUT....if in da clasrom 1 pupil son of mafia boss ho kill many inosent civilean, den guy z hero...not terorist
and if for that reason I am called a fundamentalist, it makes sense too.
But when killers, kidnappers and terrorists are labeled as fundamentalist due to their brutal actions......and at the same time I am also labeled as fundamentalist due to my adherence to basics of my religion, it makes mess of religion and crimes where the whole social ideology becomes suspicious.
As for as defining one's religion is concerned, in my opinion it is individual's responsiblity to select. If one is literate and has access to religious books/material, it's very easy to find the truth, provided you have quest for that. In case someone is not much literate he has to rely on available information / scholars but still can find the truth if he/she is sincere. So, one has to define his/her religion by oneself. In any case, you can’t blame the society if you are away from religion or you have been influenced by a non-religious concept.
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It is common practise today to accept only a part of one's religion rather than the whole depending on one's convenience. A 'religion buffet' or 'spiritual mix and match' if you like... I am not saying it is right or wrong, just making an observation...
This is partly due to globalization whereby a common set of moral values are being accepted by all people regardless of their religion. And if one's religion has aspects that do not comply with the new 'global values' and if you choose to stick to them, you are immediately labelled conservative or old fashioned.
In such a context, people who stand by all tenets of his/her religion inspite of whether its to his/her convenience and inspite of what other people may think of him/her becomes a fundamentalist by default...
All this comes to a more basic question... Can the individual define his/her religion....
In islam there is no concept of shrines or huge monuments being build on graves. Though we do have the liberty to mark the graves of our loved ones and the Holy Prophet peace be upon him himself forbade us from constructing shrines.
Your definition of known fundamentalism is not fair. You are also convinced to use the term as it is used these days. That's why I say most of us are brainwashed by international media as a plan to use our thought to support the international war games on political purposes using religion as a tool.
You said Osama Bin Laden....for me if he ever killed an innocent person....he is murderer....why should we say that he is fundamentalist …and then to relate his action to adherence to ISLAM where the killing is forbidden in his religion also....I don't know Bin Laden personally and I also don't know if he was ever charged in any court of the world for those crimes which are propagated.....neither I like him nor I hate him but what I know is when I was in early years of college (1987-88) and Soviet Union was recalling its army from Afghanistan, that time Osama Bin Laden was HERO of America (or CIA at least) because they overthrown the Soviet Union in association of Osama Bin Laden and his allies. What media says about him today, that's another story and there are other reasons to propagate that story.
In Osama Bin Laden current times ...fundamentalism is not adherence to Islamic core values (as you said)....but represent brutal actions against society.....so it is not fair to say that these days fundamentalism is adherence to ISLAM. Adherence to religion was always fundamentalism but a crime is a crime whether it is Islamic fundamentalism or Christian fundamentalism.
A person adhering the core values of a religion is, of course, a fundamentalist but not necessarily a terrorist or criminal.....and when someone becomes a criminal or a terrorist..he is enemy of the religion also and therefore his actions should not be related to the religion.
A killer is only a killer and not a Muslim, Christian or Jews killer. A thief is a thief in all religions and a terrorist is a terrorist in all nations and countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden
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ALIEN,, Thanks ! i am still waiting comments from the people who called others (specially you) the fundamentalist ;-)
The problem is that, we cannot hold them responsible, it is the today's society which is giving birth to such generation. Time is changing fast.
Also for your information, the ideology of "Wahabism" is not accepted by majority of Muslim around the world, specially when in 1982 they destroyed the Holy Shrines/ Tombs of the wives of our beloved Holy Prophet(SW) and his family and other Sabahs in Janatul Baqi .... their fundamentals of Islam is very different as taught by Holy Prophet - Mohammad (peace be upon Him).
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and I wanted to explain the same thing to any of us who might have defferentiate fundamentalism and religion (whether it is Islam or Christianity) in the wrong sense.
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Dilemma is that we don’t look at the things with the respective context. Conservative in Europe or America is entirely different than a conservative is Middle East. It’s quite possible that a conservative in Europe has adverse line of action / way of life than to one in the Middle East.
However, when propagated by biased media, the both are accredited in the same category as “conservative” thus leaving no difference between right and wrong.
In the start, there are good fundamentalists and bad fundamentalists but then fundamentalism is propagated in a way that it becomes impossible to be a good fundamentalist.
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I am happy that most of the people have encouraged what I meant.
When I don't like to harm anyone with my actions, my speech and I believe to spend my life positively.....and I call myself a fundamentalist.....I wish that people should not blame a religion at the religion always give the right path.
I hope if we realize that we are being used politically in the name of religion in international war games, it will fade the shadows of hate in our lives and give us hope to spend our lives more successfully while practicing our religions.
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It's centuries old war between religion and those who are afraid that religion will take over their monarchy.
I also hate to term religious ideology with bad names but at the same time I also know that most of the people are not aware of the facts and they believe which biased media advertise. Who cares what the purpose is. When you don't have knowledge for something, you will believe what others say.
So, I always try to do on my part, to share with others what I learned.
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thnx alien
tiz sad dat wen ppl liv decent wid da moral & valu, da world C dem as da fundmntalist, but wen ppl gay, mek haram child, dro da tatoo & pierce tong & 4get da religon & moral & value, da world say: 'welcom normal ppl'
redpope & blackbeard, now da Prof Apple hav 3 pupil: 2 of u + me :-) (by 1 get 1 free)
You spoke about Islam so I will be referring to that only here.
I completely agree with you about the core values one must make nucleus of his relationship with God.
But I would say that utilization of these terms (fundamentalism / wahabi, etc.) are the political tacts of governments and to misrepresent the original concept of religion. I have given the origin of the definition "fundamentalism" that how and where it was generated. However, these days it is used for Muslims only for political reason. Same is for the term wahabi…it was introduced by British government in India in 18th century and that resulted in first clash between West and Islam. Otherwise, when you will study the Wahabi doctrine, you will say….Oh, this is what I am or this is what I believe in because as a principle Wahabis believe in only those core values which you mentioned earlier.
And regarding religion, as a student of religion for last 36 years, I believe that if we have ownership to the core values (as you mentioned... Shahadah, Salat, Zakat, Sawm and Hujj), we are better than those who are hardliner for other issues which are secondary. However, we can't ignore the importance of those small things also as ISLAM is a complete way of life..and true..ISLAM also teaches that which foot you should put first while entering to the toilet....if you believe and practice, you will be benefited...and if you don't believe or believe but don't practice...there is no punishment........actually, it all depends on knowledge and learning...as much as you study the religion and you start practicing..your ownership will develop more and more towards religion as “a complete way of life”.
One must not be surprised to know that ISLAM covers your life 100%. Social life, economics, husband-wife relations, child-parents relations, government, education, health, neighbors relations, elections, transport…and many million aspects of human life. All is covered in QURAN….as long as you learn that.
However, there is no HARDLINING in ISLAM except for the core ideology, it teaches everything but doesn’t like to enforce….and indeed, religions can’t be enforced. So, anyone who is biased towards the secondary things and is not practicing the core values of ISLAM in its true spirit is neither a fundamental nor a true Muslim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi
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Actually, a true religion is "a complete way of life" or a guide to live in this world and it will cover all aspects of one's life.
I have listed just few fundamental values that are part of my life and came to my mind while writing the post. In addition to these, there are many more which will be definitely highlighted by other members.
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When we do the comparative study of religions, core values of all religions are in a way or other same. There are a lot of similarities.
So, for welfare and well being of the society, it will not make difference that you are Muslim or Christian. If you believe in God and religion in true sense, and practice the religion as a way of life, your behavior in the society will be always constructive.
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Thank you very much for your valuable comments.
The current scenario of application of the term in different parts of the world is entirely political. However, if we go the history, one will find that the propagation of the term "fundamentalism" was only to refuse and misrepresent the message of God. Somehow, those people who propagated the religion as a major cause of social problems were successful in painting the black face of crimes in the name of fundamentalism.
Life with few fundamental values is always better than having nothing to be based on and living just like animals without a cause and purpose of life. I think if anyone has respect for religion as a way of life and practices the core values of religion, he/she is fundamentalist, we term it or not.
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@Aghati.. ok I'll try to read it on MMS but hope u put music in it.. (*just kidding)
@RP.. can I enroll too, need to improve my english as well. by the way, I wonder how much it will cost us (Me & Aghati) hmmm..
^_^
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"Life is like a box of chocolate.. You never know what you gonna get." -Tom Hanks (Forrest Gump)
He has to get a clearance with Professor Apple first....
Red_Pope is resting until further noticed when it comes to that subject.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
blackbeard u gud in da english...u lucky man
u 2 try read my msg not txt...but MMS
when I'm reading Aghati's comment, it's like reading txt messages.. wel, wot he s saying is ndrstandble but hop u mprov no onli ur englis but how to rite as well.. i now RP culd help u..
^_^
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"Life is like a box of chocolate.. You never know what you gonna get." -Tom Hanks (Forrest Gump)
no cornellian u not understan :-)
dis was tru qustion: wats 'terorist'?
dis was jok: (not fundmntalist?)
mybe ppl understan 'terorist' difrnt frm oder ppl.
realy wats 'terorist'? iz only da person? not posibil 2 hav da terorist govrmnt/country? iz ok 2 fite da 'terorist' wid sem technik he 2 use? we 2 bcum also 'terorist' if we 2 fite da 'terorist'?
A guy who walks into a classroom, just shoots everyone and walks out is a terrorist, but he is not a fundamentalist.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
I don't agree with you on this one.
A terrorist believes in their cause fanatically, religiously and most of the time are fundamentalist in their views.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
A terrorist can or cannot be a fundamentalist, the same a fundamentalist can or cannot be a terrorist. Think of it this way: a fat person may or may not have diabetes, and a diabetic person may or may not be fat...however if a fat person is pushed in the wrong direction he'll form diabetes. In other words, they related but are not necessarily always found together.
Am I making any sense? Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
Aghati.
It makes sense.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
'...A fundamentalist is not a terrorist...'
but wat'z da terorist? (not a fundmntalist?)
Finally The mahatma of the ME is born
Like many other words, the word "fundamentalist" is over-used without people really knowing what it means. For example, the word "pimping" literally means a guy who finds and promotes prostitutes but in today's slang it is just means "trying to be cool". Anyways I digress, but my point is that people use words, which used to mean something but now mean something else. "Fundamentalism" in the times of the crusaders meant the strict, conservative Christians, but now in the times of Bin Laden it means the strict, conservative Islamic Ideology. So it's all relative to the time and context the word is placed in.
Ofcourse a person who's following those basic principles of morality u stated is not a fundamentalist, because to be a fundamentalist, u should have a narrow mentality and strict guidelines which u expect everyone to follow. A fundamentalist is not a terrorist, but if lead in the wrong direction, he can turn out to be one.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong -Garfield
C pm? lot of da ppl comnt wen i rite...even u!
even da broken clok iz corect 2 times of da day
thnx vry much hashin...u very gud man. i promis 2 mek improv my abilty in da english. mybe mek da red-pope help me. his english very gud & prfct
ALIEN,,,, Every one knows that the word "fundamentalism" means as "strict adherence to the fundamental beliefs of a theology or ideological system". Also "fundamental" means... "one of the minimum constituents without which a system would not be what it is" as mentioned in dictionary!!!
As you know that the "fundamentals" of Islam are none other than the five pillars: Shahada, Salat, Zakat, Siyam, and Hajj. Therefore, an "Islamic Fundamentalist" is not a terrorist as the media would have you believe, but a Muslim steadfast in his devotion to Allah(SWT). We, as Muslims, should adopt the attitude of fundamentalism as defined in the dictionary- for it will be by these pillars that humanity may find salvation. We, who accept Allah(SWT)'s last Revelation and Messenger are the vanguard of humanity's future.
If you are strong in your faith no one dare to attack your faith. In short if we are not a fundamentalist then you are a weak Muslim Ummah !
Wa'Salaam..
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Oh! she is "conservative"....or well you know, he is "conservative". It's been meaning negative lately.It inclines being an unprogressive retard.
If one is not "liberal" then you're some fuddy duddy stick-in-the-mud person.
Well, I say everything in life is relative. I might be seen as fanatic in some advanced countries, conservative somewhere else, hyper liberal in the gulf, and just liberal in the Middle East!.
In the end, its the same me!!!
Salam
I liked what you said here... 'Why we use the word fundamental for a criminal when criminals are not practicing fundamental values of their religion?'
I’m terribly sorry folks, I find some of Aghati writings quite valuable and to I LOVE the way he writes English. I wanted to ask him how he does it, but thought it might not be proper for me to ask.
Alien: I hate these terms below, made by you know who, for what they stand for and associated with:
Fundamentalist - Islamist- Mohammadism- Islamic activist (polite for terrorist)- new world order- third world!!
Salaam
but I too think you are not taken as serious as you ought to be
it was recently that I started noticing them and they are.... 'spicy'
they are usually short and thought provoking
reading it is painful
but it has some kind of charm...
I have noticed you getting away with murder but people don't seem to mind...
Knox brother. Who ever tried to constraint your thoughts in your writing?
Did you forgot your daily supplement of fiber food for today?
Just kidding my brother..
But Mrs. PM has a strong point and we re trying to avoid confrontations with Agati. We are just helping him to understand that his ESL is not up or nor ala par..
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
oopss.. sorry..
*Listens...
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"Life is like a box of chocolate.. You never know what you gonna get." -Tom Hanks (Forrest Gump)
lets stick to the topic. After a long time I am seeing a thread where I can express my fundamentalist views.
PM
Probably the poor kid needs ESL tutoring services and you are the person selected for that job.
I'm only sixteen, looking for tutoring services...
...
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...
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16 Years in each leg......LOL
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
hahaha.. that's a very good observation PM.. I'm about to burst that complain too but keep it in me as I could offend Aghati.. but you make it in a humurous and understandable manner..
^_^
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"Life is like a box of chocolate.. You never know what you gonna get." -Tom Hanks (Forrest Gump)
May be an english language expert can clarify why the word 'fundamentalist' was picked. May be it was used in a casual sense in the begining to define fanatic behaviour because it was more popular. May be...who knows.
also Alien:
-never 2 hav haram child, meaning: never 2 start da family & mek da babyz b4 marry da woman
da teroris iz da country 2 mek war/occupy oder country (exmpl izrael & usa) and da hero iz da ppl 2 protect da home (exmpl hamas & hizbulla)
Alien, I haven't read all of the links you thoughtfully provided but my personal feeling is that Fundamental or not, the values you list should be respected by more people, several overlap with the 10 commandments of the Christian faith and probably of other Faiths as well. I am not a religious man myself but values such as Respecting others, not harming others etc are morally right and if we all lived by these values there would be a lot more peace in the world.
It is interpretation of these values, and the power to get others to follow your interpretation that leads to differences in belief.
Should you be a fundamentalist? You need to make a personal decision. You need to follow God where God is leading you. Listen to God's voice and read what God has revealed to mankind. God has shown me that walking with God is a wonderful life decision.
Personally, I think fundamentalism is a good thing. I am a fundamentalist but not a radical or a fanatical. Unfortunately, fundamentalism is a dirty word because many people think it implies ignorance, violence, and being anti-intellectical. This is the accusation that the atheists Richard Hawkins & Sam Harris make. I don't like liberal religion because it distorts the original message. The battle against fundamentalism is getting hotter nowadays as the atheists and anti-God people are getting worried as religious belief is increasing.
All the fundamental beliefs you listed are holy and should be pursued. I would add a few more about divine and brotherly love. If these represent fundamentalism, then there's no reason not to be a fundamentalist.
Bless you, brother!