The importance of Marriage?
Ok, this isn't a joke or anything, this is me honestly wondering what the point of marriage is. It just doesn't make sense to me. You stand up, say a couple of words, sign a slip of paper, and suddenly your union is right in the "eyes of God"?? It someone makes children from that union more special? I mean, why would God care?
Even more so, why is getting married considered to be the be all and end all of most peoples lives? Here in Asia the decision to get married reminds me of some peoples decision to choose a university, or buy their first car. It's like they think "well I'm 23 now, time to tie the knot I guess, Mom, Dad find me a wife/husband." I just can't imagine thinking of marrying someone as just something you do, like going grocery shopping.
In the West we put tons of significance onto it, too much. You have to be madly in love, commited forever, soul mates. If you don't find your soul mate then there is something wrong with you. Instead of deciding, while I'm old enough lets get married to someone for the sake of getting married, it's a contest. Can you beat out all the other guys/girls to get your "perfect" mate, that person you connect with and have hot passionate sex with. And if you don't snag this person, well you're a loser.
Both of these cases make marriage seem like a HUGE waste of time to me. And both cases make marriage, which is supposed to be some big act in the eyes of God, seem shallow and silly. Frankly, in this day and age I think it should be tossed out altogether.
There is a lot of peopels in here with a lot of hurt...
I was married 18 years and she dumpped my azz.
It was bad...But I got over it...
So get over it...
Peaceful mind is essential for better understanding among peace lovers, Gypsy and Rang - Raider... I would like to respond ur posts, but I'm so busy at this moment... just bare with me and give me some time to finish my project... I'll respond all your queries and responses accordingly... Thanks...
When I hear about the hypocrytical, shallow, discriminatory and closeminded "laws" of other societies, I am thankful that societies like Canada Exist!
Szafar, societies CHANGE, or they wither and die...THAT is what we are talking about, the individuals in a society will dictate what the acceptable "norm" is...and you should really broaden your horizons and see what makes people whold their head up proudly and what doesn't before making such sweeping statements!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Um Saffar, I'm from Canada, where Gays are allowed to marry in the eyes of the law, and in a few cases the eyes of the church (God Bless the Canadian Anglican Church :D). Also a couple who live together out of wedlock are considered "common law married" after I believe 2 years of co habitation, which means that if they so choose, they can be subject to the same tax breaks, etc as an actual married couple. So I've found my place where I fit in.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Peaceful Society can discuss peacefully... So become a peacefull person to find the answers...
We are discussing whatever we can... JUST to prove our point of views... wihthout knowing the aftermath effects of our discussion...
"Like a Baby ... still We have no Choice; only to Follow the Rules and Regulations of the Society in which we are living in; If someone differs from the rules of their society they must leave their Society/Country untill they find their own set of group/people either within (if Permissible by the law) or outside the Society...
If someone in the society wants to live peacefully and walk Proudly among others they must go through the Marriage Process under the marriage Contract, That's Y the Marriarge is SO Important..."
I think everyone has two sides. What you have said is more suitable to men who we call as successful persons.but regarding women there are some differennt way. For me, I had married at my 23 yrs old with my first boy friend. we atill keep a good friendship each other as we know very well after we divorced. now we all have separate life. I find this is a good way for us to build our respective life goal. So as a person, esp. a woman, she can do anything she wants under a condition that she shoud be independent both in physical and spirit life. That is OK! then I think she well be the happies one in the world.marriage is an experience of life. everyone need it.then you can decide if you like to go on it. Not not think too much. Life is passed far away while you think and puzzle inside.
10 years later, you can find life is so easy and interesting. The most important is for you to grasp one or a few good chance. you will never get them as soon as they pass by you.
Hi Gypsy, I saw you in the meeting on Orion. your outside looks like very different from your inside. your action does same from your thinking. Pls. forgive me my direct expression. So I think you should take a good chance to find a nice man to experience a fantastic marrigae life as it is a kind of life while you share life in your young time.
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share your life with me as we are different:)
well I guess I've walked without pride and had 'Shallow Hollow Eyes' during three periods of my life! Funny, I don't remember anyone remarking on it! Damn, I'm bad. Oh well the best parties are always in hell.
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Peace on all...
before going to the Conclusion, let me Emphasis my points first, I need to I need to tell who I am and What I Believe in and Y? We need to choose a group of people who comply the following then in the second part I'll discuss the Importance of Marriage;
* A Baby - Has No Choice, Where To born and When to Die...
* A Baby - Acts only what is been taught/told by elders around ...
* A Baby - Addopts the surrounding Culture/Religion and language...
* A Baby - Answers according to the teachings of school/Society...
* A Baby - Can not learn - without using Sences...
* A Baby - Sences must comply with the Common Sence ---- when all this is done accordingly --- We become grown Up babies... therefore we can say that; Still We R babies (Student Babies) coz our learning process dosen't ends yet. and when someone passes all the tests using their scences they become Successful Babies (of their "School" Only)
IS THERE ANY-ONE, WHO DIFFERS FROM THE ABOVE
unless he/she might had a different aspect/experience of their life...
Despite of our race, Region and Religion, Cultural Society, Law/school of thaughts, we all went through the above process equally, we had no choice ONLY TO FOLLOW OTHERS; their pre-set Rules & Regulations and their desires too. So the Common Practice Comes forward as a result of our above practice is "To Oblige Others"...
Conclusion: People who know how "To Oblidge Others" can Answer and Understand the Importance of Marriage; Others Can say WHATEVER; because their believe in What_ever Will not and can not bring peace and prosparity in their Life...
Now come to The Thread "Importnce Of Merraige",
the Word "Mariage" is ONLY religious terminology... This world "Marriage" was braught into existence by the religious group of the time; meaning of Mariage is "A Verbal/Written Contract Between two Opposite Sex's, Adult Personalities, without any financial interests for the said period or unlimited period of time"
(My Car is parked Under my Building, Is there anyone who dare to Touch or Drive my car without my consent/approval...) Infact we can not do nothing, without the mutal consent or understanding; and that consent must be accepted by the Society and It's Laws equally...
I can not allow minor/Insane/Violent/Dangerous personalities to drive my Car, if somehow' I did allowed someone; then the Society and the law will not permit me to do so and I have to face the consequences of my Act; in terms of Financial Punishment/Physical Imprisonment or both.
Gypsy...
1. If someone want to get allong with someone without eachother's Consent; we named that Act "Rape/RAPIST"
2. If someone want to get allong with someone with the mutual consent but without the approval of the Society and it's Law; We Named that Act "Rape/Rapist" because the contract was not executed among two opposit parties ...
Note: Some Societies/Group of People do follow the rules of Mutual Consent just to satisfy thier sexual needs... also they changes their partners so frequently... only to satisfy their own... these set of people can not get along with the other set of people who knows how to Oblidge;
PROSTITUTION (hustlers and whores): Their first group came into exsitence under the name and rule of mutal consent; we named them Prostitution (because Finance was Involved for this Concent) Now a days new groups came into exsistence with different idiology, terminology/needs and we named them as Gay, Lasbian, Homo, Swingers and Live in FRIENDS (Boyfriend/GirlFriend) etc...
All of the Above set of Groups, ultimately when they get sick an tired of their Sexual Desires, they ultimately come to the Point that They need to earn some respect in the eyes of Society/Law by getting marriage eachothr; Gypsy Dear... who asked them to get marriage... They Should Stay as Gay, Lasbian, Homo, Swingers and Live in FRIENDS (Boyfriend/GirlFriend) etc... and live their live as usual... No one has asked them to Cover their Act with marriage Contract... but we all know that the Marriage is the Legal Contract between two Opposit group of people Who can run their Businesses togather, freely, fairly and PEACEFYLLY.
FINAL CONCLUSION:
So My dear Gypsy,
Like a Baby ... still We have no Choice; only to Follow the Rules and Regulations of the Society in which we are living in; If someone differs from the rules of their society they must leave their Society/Country untill they find their own set of group/people either within (if Permissible by the law) or outside the Society...
If someone in the society wants to live peacefully and walk Proudly among others they must go through the Marriage Process under the marriage Contract, That's Y the Marriarge is SO Important...
We've seen people With Marriage and Without marriage, the only difference in between them that the people who legaly obtain their rights to live togather can Walk Proudly, whereas we've Noticed that other set of Groups, When they walk among us they look only to each others eyes, not in our eyes, because inside they know that their walk is a walk of SHAME among us... therefore; when thier this concios rises too much within them they also want to call their self married people like other married peoples... Their Shameful Hollow Eyes Also tells us the Importance of the Marriage...
GOD Does not Care that we get married or Not.. B U T ... WE the Human DO CARE... who is Married and who is Not... This is we have been taught in each and every exsisted shool on this earth to do everything under contract...
Peace of mind Gives u peace in Live, So pls Do not think Too hard think Peacefuly... Think before U Act... Think Equally...
This is Exactly I've said that It Dosen't matter How Frequent Your SChool Changes its Syllabus, U have to answer according to the new changes (Syllabus), in order to pass the examination, U can apply same example to each and evry aspect of our daily life... If U want to Pass the Exam of your Life history.
It Dosen't matter which Country U R in now, U must comply with it's rules and regulations to Be There... Otherwise we all very well aware of The Consequences... But we forget all these rules and regulations when we discuss something
After getting 196 replies ? what conclution are you at now ?
Mr. Speed
[img_assist|nid=44154|title=Speed|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=180|height=180]
Naqvi did u forget that the syllabus keeps on changing
the new syllabus need not be better than the one before
but still the validity cannot be judged as soon as the syllabus comes out
but only after the generation which is aproduct of that syllabus becomes adults
with all the chaos in this world i frankly believe neither the old nor the new have proved effective.
Peace 4 all...
I'm very well aware of the thread "The Importance of Marriage?" and i would like to Comment on this if we all SPEAK according to the Rules & Regulations Set By US(HUMANS)...
I would like to add to my earlier blog that We (Human) think that WE can SAY (talk) whatever... WHAT_EVER means "Everything and Anything" we (Human) feel, Think, Believe in, and WHATEVER WE Want to Say ... ... etc.
But to those who went to SCHOOL and passed their Exams, knows very well that WE can not Read/Write WHATEVER WE want/like/believe, either in our school life, OR At OUR Working places, In Fact anywhere in the world, where LAW Exists, WE (HUMAN) can not and Are Not Allowed To Use This Word "WHAT_EVER", Anywhere, Whatsoever.
for an example, In any Exam, We Answer to the Question according to the Answers, pre set and written by the BOARD. No One can Pass the Exams, if the answer is different then reuired. In any Job Interview, we must answer according to the requirements of the JOB...
We all Know that School is a Place where we Learn, How to answer the Question according to the Book, If answer is Different from the Book, we can not advance to any other class and proceed further, till answered accordingly.
IF STILL SOMEONE DON'T ANSWERS ACCORDINGLY DESPITE OF SEVERAL ATTEMPTS. THE SCHOOL DECLARES THEM "MENTALLY WEAK HUMAN"/ OR "INSUFFICIENT TO LEARN"
Thus, Those who can talk/debate under the pre set rules and Regulations are welcome others can say WHATEVER... Their WHAT_EVER is not Sufficent answer to Pass the Exam of this Human Race.
Peace on Everyone... I've been Reading everyone's point of View... and now, intend to join you for a while... till the Conclusion... Should I proceed??... before I proceed, I would like to ask all of U to think first, before you reply "WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED BY GOING TO SCHOOL" answer to this question is a KEY to all the Questions we ever could face...
I am neither for nor against it...in fact i'm married myself and in a church no less (mostly to please my wife because it was important to her)....what I am saying is that the piece of paper from the church makes no difference.
I'm not calling for the abolition of marriage....in fact like I said b4, i don't think you CAN abolish it....its human nature, wether legislated or not.
I was simply responding to the topic question of how important do we think it is?
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Please list the negative aspects of marriage and the social diseases it has caused to the communitties of the world since the begining of time, and list the same for non-marriage!
I need to know the harm that marriage has caused, to the lives of people in all communitties, in all times!
I know that there was a time when the west had to put a stop to the power of the church in order for kings/royals to get divorce & marry their mistresses. What else?
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
To those claiming that without this contract....without society's legislating of this union we would decend into an animal like state....all I have to say is that this is simply NOT true.
Again, humans have no maiting season and we have been monogomous since recorded history (wether in the earliest cities, in nomadic tribes...hell even in caves!). Its in our very nature....it happens wether we have these rules or not....neither society, nor even god and religion invented this concept....it predates it all.
Stay safe.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
"Africa and India have the highest levels of AIDS and they are both extremely religious"
South Africa extremely religious??! What a laugh!
Besides, AIDS is only one of the many social diseases I mentioned!
You reminded me yesterday that this thread is not about abortion, I reminded that is is niether about religions & burrying baby girls, and I am reminding you now that it is also not about the AIDS level in other countries!
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
MRS. Africa and India have the highest levels of AIDS and they are both extremely religious. Where do you get your information?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
The main reason that the US and Europe have high statistics for rape and assault is because of reporting and recording of crime. It is well documented that unless there is a formal structure in place that is not associated with shame, rape is often not reported at all.
sorry double post
I hate the way here the first question I get asked is "how many years you married, how many babies you have" as if being married obligates you to produce hundreds of sons. Thanks, but I'd rather have a puppy...
i totally agree than no 1 should commit to any religion without questioning why..
Thats an integral part of Islam ( both in quarnic teaching and in mohammad;s teachings)
i also totally agree with u that it is totally absurd to use religion as a blancket answer for everything NAIEVLLY..
i also totally agree that with or without religion, rapes and hurrendous things will keep happening..
i totally diagree however that religion has no base or place in modern life and is not SCIENTIFIC and can not be SCIENTIFICALLY proven..
it all depends which side of science do u want 2 look at..
may be one day i ll allow u to learn from my wisdom and illustrate:) hehe
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
"Please, what society burried new born girls alive???? Perhaps you should look at the number of supposedly religious socities that abort or leave infant girls to die because boys are better. Or perhaps the Religious communties that stone girls to death for talking to a boy, or because someone in their family just thinks they are dirty. Religion has brought more chaos to the world, not less."
This thread is not about religions & burrying new born girls, either!
I also disagree with your religion & chaos theory. As anyone can see, the highest level of social chaos & diseases (AIDS, bastards, crime, drugs, rape, addiction, homeless people, orphanages..etc) are in communities that have drifted away from God & His divine laws. Marriage is one of them!
None-marriage is leading to having millions of helpless young mothers, run-away fathers, abortion, bastards, opening more orphanges, parentless kids turning into criminals, addiction on alcohol & drugs, dirty sex, AIDS, crime to master drug trafficing, prostitution...and on..and on.
There are some suburbs in some "first class" countries where you can't enter them at night because you might not get out alive!
On the other hand, visit the (somewhat concervative) communities in the country side of places like Irland, Germany, Italy, Austia, Sweden, Portugal (these are just examples) and see how these (married) families & generations live peacefully & do not suffer from those social diseases. Did the marriages in these communities cause any harm?
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
Gypsy.. you want a baby but you do not want the headache of having a grown baby along with it? Well, that ain't going to happened. If you are going to have a baby with a man he is going to be a part of you and the baby's life. So you will have to deal with him too. That is not a good enough reason to put down marriage. I have a 13 year old girl with my first husband and I still have to deal with him because of her. That is her father. Oh, yah I got preganet before we got married, we married two years after I had her. That is way I say to you if you want a baby get a man that is not a big baby. LOL
Hussam and alizakir is right when you get older God gives you the mind to go out to follow your own path. I come from a christian family. I am married to a muslam. I respect Islam and I have even study Islam. This was before my husband. So we go back to your orginal question why is marriage important? It is the foundation of famliy.
Alizakir I have used my intelligent mind and determined that religion is not the right path for me as it has no basis in modern life or scientific fact.
Mrs. This thread is not about abortion. I was thinking of China and India in fact where girls are aborted for being girls. Do I think that is wrong, of course, there are many reasons a woman has to abort, simply because she is giving birth to a girl should not be one.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
'what society burried new born girls alive???? Perhaps you should look at the number of supposedly religious socities that abort or leave infant girls to die because boys are better"
So is "Abortion", which is legalized in the 'non-religous' countries, better than the above example? Or is it legalized murder to a helpless creature?
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
Its not that we are using Religion as a bracket answer to everything ... your Question is based on the reality of Religion ... Like Hussam ! He has provided you a link of finding the Right Path thru the Prophet Mohammad (SA) ..
In my case I was born in a Muslim house. but when i grew up i had friends from Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Budishs etc... we used to discuss Religion, to be honest, when i beacme mature enough to understand things, I did my own study on Religion and found that Islam is the only true religion which teaches the Ethics of Life and every thing i mentioned in my earlier post ... thats my own research not blindly following the books and people sayings !!!
So your topic on Marriage was clearly discussed. As Hussam has mentioned and i had same feelings that GOD has given you an Intelligent Mind, you have capabilities, you have resources and you can approach anywhere you want to find the Right Path ...
Marriaged is an established commitment between a man and a woman in the eyes of God, that pice of paper is just there for worldly reasons only. Marriage is more for us to have a strong famliy unit for furture famlies (our children, thier children, and so on) That is way it is important to chose someone that you will love no matter what (his or her's bad things too). And not just give up with the first sign of bad storms. That is way it is important to know the person before making that commitment. And I don't mean having sex with the person, I mean knowing that persons mind, know how they think, because if you do not think the same way that will open doors for other things to get into the relationship. Marriage can be a beautiful thing, it is a different expirence for different people. May western way may not be good for you and your eastern way may not be good for me. You have a right to your opions, just know all that not all westerns do not think that way.
I don't mean to denounce Islam at all, what I don't like Hussam is people using religion as a blanket answer for everything. Saying I'm a bad person because I don't follow a particular religion, or that society would devolve into chaos if there was no religion is quite a naive and ignorant view, in my opinion, that means that the person has never done any real research into human sociology or history. Also saying that if everyone followed religion there would be no rape or murder is naive as well because it does not take many many things such as culture and human nature into account.
I honestly having nothing against people who choose to follow religion as long as they've explored the reasons WHY they follow it, and not just accept it as fact without ever learning anything else.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Adhereing 2 God/organised religion and prophets, is not mutually exclusive with bieng a good person and certainly wouldnt turn someone into a bad person in my openion.
Gypsy, u dont lack enthusiasm for ur thoughts, niether do u lack inttelect..
what u do need 2 consider however is the way u always find fault in the beliefs of others 2 justify urs:)
i really dont think a smart individual as urself would have so much trouble in acknowledging the local cultures are one thing,and the religion of that culture is another..
so yes, muslims in pakistan may commit honor rapes, pre islam arabs may have burried their females infants alive, but there is no way an intteligent argument can actually use this a pretext to denounce Islam and its teachings..
and honestlly, if u bother reading Mohammad;s history ( and u really should as opposed 2 just hearing bits and pieces from here and there ), u would know that he accepted ALL schools of thoughts, and that he DID NOT DENOUNCE homosexuality , but rather legislated ( in respect to inheritance ) with homesexuals and those with unclear genetelia/sexual oriantation included..
so as much as i enjoy the passion in ur posts, i think u r well advised to accumilate a bit more knoweldge about this topic in particlaur..
i recommend " Mohammad, a prophet for our time " by the infamous Keren Armestrong..
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Hi Gypsy........agree with you all the way, its amazing to me that so many people run around this planet and when they are unable to comprehend something, they put it down to an invisable great power.
I think it's very likely that early man did infact grope around and try to figure things out. That's how he started using tools, learned how to make fire, to hunt, to fish, the basis of language, the written word. A child will grow and create his or her own thought and feelings about the world around them even with the abscence of a parent (as has been witnessed unfortunatly in some extreme abuse cases).
The lack of a parent doesn't reduce the child to some brainless vegetable. Humans are intelligent animals and in the past they have used and expanded upon this knowledge, and anything they couldn't figure out they made up stories to explain, hence your holy books, which I assure you I know more then enough about.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
The Bible and the Quran are the Books of GOD (ALLAH) ... you need some more research on the matter of Religion ..
In today's fast-paced world, it is a must for manufacturers of almost every product - from state-of-the-art microwave ovens to space age automobiles, from sophisticated sewing machines to powerful fighter jets, and from highly functional refrigerators to intelligent mainline computer systems - to provide a manual for the users' benefit. In light of that, it is impossible to conceive that the Maker of mankind did not equip him with any form of guidance for his life on Earth.
It is unlikely that early man, with his limited knowledge about anything, groped about the planet and endeavoured to understand his alien surroundings and circumstances. We know for a fact that a child is always full of questions, and never stops asking to satisfy his/her curiosity.
Without an adult's aid, he/she is helpless. The same applies in the case of the first man, Adam. His Creator, Almighty Allah , became his Teacher. After him, Divine inspiration continued to be revealed upon selected human beings with the command to guide their brethren towards enlightenment and truth.
Of the Divine Revelations, there are two types: the Holy Books and the Holy Scrolls (suhuf). Some of the Holy books revealed to the Prophets are the Taurah (Torah) revealed to Prophet Moses; Zaboor to Prophet Dawood ; Injeel (Bible) to Prophet Jesus; and the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
These revelations were sent to many different nations in many different tongues, and formulated according to the needs of the times and the understanding of the people !!
In some cases it's locals attacks on expatriates, others expatriate attacks on expatriates. I even new one local girl who was attacked by her cousin. This stuff does happen, not as much as the States (where poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, etc play a big role) but it does happen fairly frequently.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Wow! i seriously sisnt know all this
were the local people involved or expats
i mean in the cases
Almost every girl I know here has been assaulted and I know of a couple who have been raped. It's a lot higher here then is reported.
An honour rape is the process by which a sister, wife or mother is raped as punishment for her husbands, fathers or brothers crimes (usually perceived social crimes of adultry, etc). It was just made illegal in Pakistan last year, but is still routinely commited.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Whats an honour rape?
u r so wrong
i know of friends and familys in US while i am living here who have been sextually assaulted
at the same time there has not been a single case in my circle of friends or family who have gone through the same in doha
if u have some stats or some insider info do let me know
Information is always good
By the way ur so wrong about the US stats too.
The National Violence Against Women Survey (NVAWS) found that only 1 in 5 adult women (19%) reported their rapes to police.
still US has the most no. of rapes in the world
Instinct is the natural feelings and emotions we follow. Every animal follows them, including humans.
I'm quite aware that the world is bigger then me, and I started this just to see what the fuss was about getting married.
Alizakir, yes rules called the common sense God gave us. He never wrote any books, but he sure gave us common sense. And those crimes you speak of today are committed by people who profess to be doing it for religious reasons, such as honour killings, honour rapes and female infanticide.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
as you said : "I follow the same set of rules of instinct that have been in place for thousands upon thousands of years. "
Who sets such rules ? so somewhere you also agree that there was someone who sets these Rules !
Shuaibkazi : You are very much right, these are the factors due to which such crimes are happening as of today coz those pepole doesn't know the Right Path or they don't follow the true Religion which teaches the Ethics, respect of a woman in society, marriage issues, and about the Day of Judgment ??
gypsy the world is bigger than you are,
rules of instinct never hold good,
though i wonder what was ur logic behind this whole issue of marriage
did u want other peoples opinion or just wanted to be verbal about ur own.
Yet the US professes itself to be a very Christian country.
However one reason the rape rates are so high in the US is because most women who are assaulted will report now, unlike here or in India, or many other countries.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
ur right there gypsy for example
India has the highest rate of female infanticide
And
The United States has the world's highest rape rate
In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes each month and 683,280 rapes each year
1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime.
bloody sad
I dont enjoy the social life so much in qatar but i have to admit that my family is much safer here than back home - touch wood
I'm simply a good person because I want to be alizakir. I don't need some common sense advice from a 2000 year old prophet to make me be a good person (in fact if I followed most of his rules I'd be out condemning homosexuals or anyone who doesn't believe what I believe, so therefore not a very good person at all if you ask me). I have a brain, I see and realize what hurts people and doesn't and I act accordingly. I follow the same set of rules of instinct that have been in place for thousands upon thousands of years.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Gypsy if you don't believe in God or have no Religion then how can you follow things in your life?
I follow my religion and Yes we got all these info. thru the Book of God and thru his Messangers (Prophets) ... so if you don't follow the Holy books then whats a point in raising such topics?
If you have asked a Question and different people has given you their opinion some may be true some may be false, but it's your responsibility to search for the right path the true Religion!
Such topics if dicsussed seriously then its matter of days and months to come to conclusion (to convince someone in a proper and professional way) !!
"Earth during those times when Human being were living Imperfect life, killing each others due to disbelieves, rape was common, killing of women was common and they looked at women as EVIL (still today in some parts of India it is happening in some religion due to lack of knowledge),etc ..."
Were they??? Did you live during those times? Could you please provide me statistics, or are you just getting this information from Holy books?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Gypsy you seem to be having a lot of anger issues
take a chill
When u say that people have been living without religion for more along time.
Religion is nothing but laws and since man has walked the earth there have been laws
The hunting in packs was the religion of the stoneage, just as making the most money before one dies is the religion of today
Religion is nothing but a set of rules as per which we all live.
Religion is not christianity, islam, judaism alone but any set of values that you imbibe in ur outlook towards ur everyday life
Religion evolves and is part and parcel of the human societal and social development than anything else
Yes we should Thanks to Al Mighty who taught the Humankind the Ethics of life on how to live in this World, those who are not following are simply living in the Dark still ;-0
Could you pls hight light on this a lil bit more ?
Its not that Marriage is keeping us away to have sex with ANIMALS ? who said that ?? what i mentioned that why Marriage is Important is to DIFFERENTIATE between Human and Animals ...
if there is no concept of Marriage or what Ranarock says "Contract" then we Human will act like Animals ! For your and others information that RELIGION was there before the existance of Humankind ... GOD has sent several Prophets on the Earth during those times when Human being were living Imperfect life, killing each others due to disbelieves, rape was common, killing of women was common and they looked at women as EVIL (still today in some parts of India it is happening in some religion due to lack of knowledge),etc ...
Back to Marriage issue again:-
One question ! If a woman sleeps with different men say 1, 2 and 3 and gets pregnant ! WHO IS THE LEGAL FATHER ? 1, 2, or 3 ??
So that is the main reason a Concept of Marriage is explained to have legal wife/husband and legal children in the Society...
Religion is a complete way of life.....if u follow it completely then u have an order.......if u follow it in bits and peices( as per ur own sweet will) then it is chaos.....we should't blame it on the religion.
Life is too short and if u r not living on the edge then u r taking up too much space.
lets just thank God for evolution..at least we arent running around like apes..butt-naked..lol =p
aw my bad...im getting confused with the threads..hehehe.theres a thread about apes..and evolution stuff..
when the going gets tough...i get going..
Please, what society burried new born girls alive???? Perhaps you should look at the number of supposedly religious socities that abort or leave infant girls to die because boys are better. Or perhaps the Religious communties that stone girls to death for talking to a boy, or because someone in their family just thinks they are dirty. Religion has brought more chaos to the world, not less.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
I do agree with you that Marrige is a "Contract" between man and a woman .... but this "Contract" is a must to be a legal partner in the eye of Religion and Society !!
This is a difference between Human and Animal, GOD has blessed human being with the best Talent and Thinking ability (Mind) above all Living things on this Earth ...
This is an insult for all human kind to link them with APES ... it is against the Al Mighty GOD. Only people who are non belivers in GOD will link themselves with Animals coz they like to do things like Animals does !
Perfection does exit, to be a perfect human one have to follow the religion of GOD ! otherwise we will remain imperfect in life ...
When there was no religion the life was imperfect, Yes the concept of marriage was there but without any meaning, those times of DARKENSS they use to bury alive new born girls thinking they are black spot or eveils in the Society... when the religion came who taught us the Ethics of Life and we see what we are today is coz of Religion!
Oh please, marriage is not what is keeping us from having sex with animals! Why is it that people think that without religious rules we would all descend into chaos. The fact of the matter is, is human kind has been around for well over 20,000 years, yet the major religions are less then 3000 years old, and many many many socities function and still function without them, why haven't they all killed each other off or are running around having sex with animals?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Hi there,
When my husband I got married, yes we loved each other (and still do) but getting married for us was about showing our commitment for each other to our families. That was the day that both families had to come to terms with us being together (not that they didn't really get on before - they just didn't know each other very well).
And it was a bloody good excuse for a party!
interesting topic eh.....but my opinion here...marriage is still important..its a bond..a seal..a commitment to the person you love that youd want to spend the rest of your life with...oh well..we have different views but the bottomline is....we want to be loved..feel secure...and marriage is form of security..aw..i guess not in western countries where divorce is as easy as 123..no offense meant..
when the going gets tough...i get going..
We do not just share DNA with animals, we were more animalistic in our previous forms.
Example: Astrolopithicus man (sorry for the spelling).
This blows the whole made in our maker's image creation myth....unless you are saying the creator looks like an APE!
And marriage as a "contract" is stricly society made (whatever they choose to call it)....I don't even thin its necessary....the fact is, humans are hardwired for it....we are not like other animals because we have no mating season....we are monogamus by nature and formed lifetime pair bonds from the time of cavemen....so if you think marriage contracts is the only thing separating us from animals then you are mistaken....they cannot control when and with whom they mate....their drives are overwhelming....humans, while do feel urges, are not constrained or ruled by them....we have no maiting season...we CHOOSE when and with whom!
So to sum it up....marriage is not really necessary....we as human love to structure our societies and did the same thing with this institution. We did it before religion, and we will be doing it after religion I suspect too.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
If you Trust in Science, Then ask the Science from where Adam n Eve came from ?
Regarding Marrigae: I never mentioned that it is a MUST for everyone to Marry ... What i mean to say that (If you read my last para : If one does not follow the purpose and the rule regulations of marriage as described in religion such as Islam and Christianity then am sorry to sat that there is not difference between human and animal !!!)
You rasied the concern that WHY MARRIGE IS IMPORTANT ? so the concept is very clear ... if there is no system of marriage then anyone can do sex with anyone on the streets ..... (such as Animals)
Regarding the ratio of Divorce: Yes I agree with you, it is Globally raising day by day, more and more couples are separating every minuate in this world, My observation is due to lack of Knowledge about the Religion, the Socitey, and not following their culture, not respecting their parents and elders ... or in short you can say BLIND LOVE is a cause of Divorce (Most of the cases, very few survived) ..
See gypsy i was talking about common sense
when columbus or for that matter galileo believed that the world was round, their belief was not common.
The arabs knew that the world is spherical by the 8th to the 9th century itself and not to forget about the chinese.
and do you know about the flat earth society which still believe that the world is flat.
what i mean to say is that Common sense is a relative term.
And when you talk about DNA i can tell you for a fact that our DNA matches that of a rat, a monkey, and many other mammals (which I dont really wanna mention right now)
If you are telling me that i am descending from a monkey just because my Dna responsible for Proteins usage in my body is similar to 96% of a monkey then what about the 80 to 85% human DNA similarity to a rat.
DNA is the signature of our creator. if our dna matches to any other animal, it just shows that our creator is one.
If you want some technical info my brother could provide a more detailed explaination. he is a microbiologist.
Shuaibakazi, women are held responsible as well, especially in positions where the woman makes more money. The world was flat until 1492 which is much much longer then a century ago. And DNA has proven we are descended from Apes.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Why only men should be held responsible and not the women
As for common sense , it changes just as the world was flat just until the last century or so
and we studied that we all descended from apes until the discovery of the human genome and the DNA structure
to be frank i told you earlier call it marriage or call it by any other name. what the underlying concept is the sanctity of a pre determined contract
for myself. I know it works for some people but for many people it actually diminishes them, reduces them.
I don't believe that you have to be married to make a good parent and a child born after wedlock is no more secure than one born before wedlock.
I love my daughter and would do anything for her. She knows that she is loved by both her parents and she feels secure even though was born out of wedlock. For her it is not an issue.
Marriage may work for some people and I say that's fine. It should be something that two people want to enter into and not something they feel they should do in order to fit in with society or with their peers.
Marriage is not a one size fits all solution and it never has been even when divorce rates were low.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
no hun,
thats why we call them " basic ":)
bec we never get to shrug em off..
sex is a great thing, but in my experience, when there is no love/feelings/ soul connection involved in it, its actually a lot like eating a big meal when u have just eaten an hour earlier..
leaves u feeling disgusted at urself ( in my openion )
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
to decide to live with someone & start a family without being married! What will marriage harm if you are in love with your partner, want to spend the rest of your lives together & want to commit in front of God? The only explanation is that one or both of you does not have the guts for such a commitment.
It is total nonsense for a woman not to marry the man she became pregnant from, for a silly reason that he might not be Mr.Right! Why the hell do you have sex & get pregnant from a Mr. Wrong?
Why do humans want to get as far as possible from God & His divine laws, find themselves in total chaos (AIDS, bastards, crime, drugs, addiction, rape, orphanages, homeless people...etc..etc), and then try to organize their mistakes thru human laws that can NEVER match the wisdom of those divine laws??? ("In most countries there are laws that make a man legally responsible for his children, regardless of whether or not he and the mother were married")
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
I know Hussamf. Sex makes the world go round. :P Sad isn't it, you'd think we'd have evolved beyond these base instincts. :D
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
lack of marriage is PEREFECT SENSE looooooooool
however, whats life without insanity and marriage eh!;) hehe
the most powerfull human dream of all ages, 2 find the perfect partner in marriage is possiblly the single most important reason 90% of the world population even bothers 2 roll out of bed:)
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
In most countries there are laws that make a man legally responsible for his children, regardless of whether or not he and the mother were married. It's just common sense. Lack of marriage does not mean lack of common sense.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
you got me wrong
i know gypsy didnt mean that, its just that if everyone started having a livin relationship like gypsy suggests things would turn out to be difficult to manage in a society.
and by the way i am too expecting a daughter
Gonna ask for some pointers if u dont mind
neway its the society we live in that makes the laws and they are made so that the people with not so strong wills dont mess up and spoil the names of the others in the group
that is the reason we have marriage laws in every country and every religion. When we marry, the Man and the Woman are entitled to certain rights over each other.
As i was saying, a woman goes through some periods in her life when she is vulnerable and needs assistance, if for example at this time the man decides to split, a legally binding contract be it under god or the pope or the court makes him responsible for his duties.
this is just an example.
What iam aiming at is even if there is no marriage under god or something like that there should be some system by which we are held responsible for our actions
be it for your wife your children or even your parents for that matter,
this is the basis on which a society works.
If my father would have told me that he doesnt want to support my mother and me because he and my mom never tied the knot what would have stopped him from doing so.
if there wasnt a word called marriage then there would have been some other word to take its place giving two people who decide to cohabitate rights over each other. in short there has to be a contract of some sorts so that no party gets the shorter end of the stick
Shubakazi I would respect anyone if that is the decision they made. I don't think the dissolution of the concept of marriage means the dissolution of society, family bonds would still exist. My parents don't have to be married to be my parents.
Alizakir, you've illustrated exactly what I HATE about the concept of marriage. Marriage is not a duty that one must perform, it is a priveledge that one decides to take with someone they care about. If you choose not to marry in your life and not have that priveledge then it's your loss, or gain depending on how you look at it. Marriage is NOT a DUTY it is NOT something you HAVE to do.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
THAT argument only holds water if history began 2000 years ago!
I have news for you:
There have been marriages and families LONG before any of the monotheistic religions...so no sorry, the holy books did not invent marriage, they simply sanction it.
Now if you believe that is a necessity or not will depend on your belief system (which religion you follow, if any, etc...).
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore,
is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
It depends on the believer, and people who have believe in GOD and follow the His religion then the concept of marriage is clear ...
Regarding the concept of Marriage:-
I will say Marriage is a religious duty and is consequently a moral safeguard as well as a social necessity..... it is a social necessity because through marriage, families are established and the family is the fundamental unit of any society. Furthermore, marriage is the only legitimate or legal way to indulge in intimacy between a man and a woman.
If one does not follow the purpose and the rule regulations of marriage as described in religion such as Islam and Christianity then am sorry to sat that there is not difference between human and animal !!!
All your points are valid...but I don't think that Gypsy was advocating the dissolution of all family bonds and values...at least that's how I read it.
Ask yourself this though: is it that piece of papre from the church( like in my own personal case) that makes our family bond and love strong? Would it matter if we had it officialy sanctioned or not? I too am married to the Love of my life...my soulmate and I just had a beautiful baby daughter...but it's not the piece of paper that matters to me.
Btw, congratulations and best of luck to you...the year ahead is going to be AWSOME!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Gypsy if every one shared your views
that would be the end of society and the rise of basic animal behaviour.
Oh sorry even animals will prove to have more values then us.
People always take everything personal
See the broader picture, whats good for you should be good for the next person too.
Would you respect your dad, mom, brother, sister, teacher etc, if he/she started believing in your value system. Stay with someone aslong as the goings good then change?
I agree with scarlett, marriage is work, real hardork, alot of compromise, and for guys it is the world. but when i see my father and mother, my brothers family, it all makes sense.
Listen to this,
I am expecting a child in february 08, with the woman i love and adore. and i know At the end of my life if i am going to judge my life. its not going to be by my wealth or how far i got in my career.
Because lets face it no matter how far you get there will always be someone wealthier, smarter, more successful than you are.
i guess My life will be successful if i have a successful family with strong ties who know whats good for them and the people living around them.
That will be my biggest achievement.
All the other things in life dont really matter.
Each family is a small world if you see anything wrong in the world outside, make the change in your own world inside
your giving the whole world a better chance for the future.
All of this must sound real preachy
but it is the truth
people have accepted children only living mother or father.I mean people have done DIVORCE & the exes' children.
But have dot done illegitimate children in China. In a word, social is making great progress while more and more women own good education and independ men.
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share your life with me as we are different:)
and if you think mine are stupid..then it takes one to know one...:)
That being beside the point...if you'd open your mind (like a parachute..they only function when open!) and allow REAL information in, you'd realize that not ONLY the countries that ALLOW having illegitimate children have those problems...
umm..that situation occurs everywhere..ok how do you NOT allow illegitimate children..kill them when they are born? Put the parents to death BEFORE the child is born...Sterilize anyone who might THINK of having sex outside of marriage? Boggles the mind
was absolutely great in the holiday specially with the weather turning mild. It is so peaceful there with the sweet smells of shishas, the simplicity of life, the relaxing architecture...I was there daily!
Thank you so much for your concern Juantie. Wish you had a nice time, too
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but I'm too tired to argue the point.
How are you, anyway? Hope you had a good Eid and enjoyed the subsequent holidays. Did you get away at all to anywhere nice?
you are back again with your stupid opinions!
You can claim what you like but that doesn't change the fact AIDS, crime, rape, drugs, homeless people...and all social diseases are widely spread only in societies that allow having illegitimate children!
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you post:"But there's the thing, divorce rates are increasing world wide, which shows that the very concept of marriage is a sham. "
Yes, because women want to share life and do duty for social as same as men.we can find the meaning of marriage from family education science.first,marriage is a licence for a man to have steady sex with a woman.second it is mainly for children to be care best.
with respect to our women, one is best happy if she has at least a kid,a steady lover and she can raise the life of both her and her kid.Somehow marriage an experience in a life, so you can marry a man who you love and want to live together ,esp you want to have a kid with him.
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share your life with me as we are different:)
America...married almost 27 years now...what I've seen in the past years is that its the mindset and committment that make a marriage work. I've seen too many people go into a marriage with the idea that ohh well, if it doesn't work out we can just get divorced.... Marriage is a LOT of work and effort.
I can understand where you are going with this post...and I have a lot of friends of all nationalities that aren't married, but living with someone or have decided just to have children by themselves. Can't say whether its right OR wrong..that has to be up to them and what they are looking for in the long run. Out of wedlock children...that's never THEIR fault..and I have never understood why some societies choose to ostracize them. Its beyond my grasp...There is no way that I would ever marry someone just because I got pregnant (let me rephrase that..WE got pregnant..takes TWO people to do that!). Good grief..he could be an abuser, alcholic that won't get help, or mass murder, whatever..just because you're pregnant doesn't mean you have to marry the man.
PA's comments make no sense at all...because its total rubbish on the increased AIDS, etc issues..
Gypsy..don't let what someone else decides is right for you, dictate what you want or need to do in your life. If you are a strong enough person, and I know you are, you can handle anything life throws at you.
Note...on that listing provided on countries with the divorce rates...take into note the countries that are almost total Catholics..a lot of them stay married due to religion...even if the marriage is abusive or bad. Again..I've never understood that..but to each his/her own
Wow! That's a really old post! I'm turning 27 in a couple of weeks so that post is almost 2 years old. :D Neat.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
dohagirl aka Gypsy said I don't intend to stay ...
I don't intend to stay longer than 2 years, 3 at the most. I'm 25, someday I would like to meet a guy and get married, that's not going to happen here in Qatar. Also I would like to further my education and I don't think the educational opportunities are very good here.
Also I think after 3 years I will be bored out of my mind.
>>>>So bitter now Gypsy---what happened to change your mind????
----now for the smart ass comment ---over to you Gypsy :D :D>>
World Divorce Statistics
In the United States, 49% of marriages end in divorce.
• Although 82% of all married couples will reach their fifth wedding anniversary, only 52% will celebrate 15 years of marriage.
• The median duration of first marriages that end in divorce is slightly less than eight years.
• Most people will wait about three years after a divorce to remarry.
• Most divorce proceedings will take approximately one year to complete.
In case you were wondering, divorce rates do vary substantially in different countries. Check out these world divorce statistics:
• In Sweden, 64% of marriages end in divorce.
• In Canada, 45% of marriages end in divorce
• In France, 43% of marriages end in divorce.
• In Israel, 26% of marriages end in divorce.
• In Greece, 18% of marriages end in divorce.
• In Italy, 12% of marriages end in divorce.
The Economic Impact of Divorce
If you review current divorce statistics, some of the most shocking facts relate to the economic impact of divorce. While it’s not uncommon for a father’s standard of living to rise after a divorce, the end of marriage often leaves women and children in poverty. Consider the following divorce statistics:
• Divorced women with children are four times more likely than married women to have an income that is under the poverty line.
• A single mom is nine times more likely than a married woman to have an income that is less than half the official poverty line.
• Although 10% of families in the U.S. are headed by a woman, 40% of poor families have a female head of household.
Of course, divorce also results in a higher cost to society as a whole. According to one study, a single divorce can cost state and federal governments more than $30,000 in court fees, increased bankruptcies, food stamps, and public housing benefits.
http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics (to read more)
LOL LOL
A "what" of Babylon??? I'd love to know that word, now that its censored. :P
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2100 QL Points!!!
Yay! Way to go Ray!
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www.e4u.name.qa
I said according to certain cultures and religions Rayyz!!, LOL, I mean here in the ME I'm the whore of Babylon cause I'm unmarried and not a virgin. :P
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Whatever said, marriage is a part of life. I agree with rayyz its a commitment towards each other and the families. Without marriage you do not have any commitment and a single mistake is enough to break a relation if required.
Its individuals point of view. Some people respect the culture and some do not.
By the way where are the maximum number of divorce cases seen? Just for my knowledge, if anyone knows.
LOL Gypsy. You're a self proclaimed slut anway! LOL
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2100 QL Points!!!
Yay! Way to go Ray!
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www.e4u.name.qa
Nah, I asked the online Ouiji board and it says I'm never going to get married. :P
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
where ever this link is going and whatever u guys say here. BUT all of us will surely marry someday. some will live with it and enjoy the realtionship and look at the +ve aspect of it and some will wander for a while but ALL WILL MARRY..
Nothing much else to say
where ever this link is going and whatever u guys say here. BUT all of us will surely marry someday. some will live with it and enjoy the realtionship and look at the +ve aspect of it and some will wander for a while but ALL WILL MARRY..
Nothing much else to say
any relationship (whether u have a marriage contract or not) can feel like jail if its going downhill.. I reckon
Isn't marriage kind of like jail?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
you make me laugh :)
no madam no madam starseed i to be say i to be in jail with you also in same jail.
I can't quite make out if that was a compliment or not! - do I understand you to say that you would rather be in jail than be married to me? No problem... :)
starseed if i to be marry you than better jail where togther suffer misery.
you'd rather stay in 'jail' and suffer the misery of a failed relationship?
when to be marry you to be ask follow rules by priest or cleric. if married peoples no follow rule than no jail but priest or cleric never say divorce wife or husband if not to be happy. so if robber rob big jail but couple rob no jail. if robber rob other loss if couple rob their loss. divorce is robbing.
...this is really a long topic so i haven't done through it much but, in my opinion, the high rate of divorce does get one to thinking of why we bother going through all the hassle of a marriage, when it will most likely (according to stats) end in divorce, which costs time, lots of money (usually) and a fair amount of pain..
I think in most countries a couple become husband and wife by default after 'so many' years (I stand corrected), so the law will probably come into it anyway, due to the fact that its been realised that a fair settlement would have to come into play, esp if there were children involved in a 'divorce', and no-one should be on the losing end - it rarely happens though.. and there is always one party (or both) who feel they've lost out on the deal.
Its very idealist of me to say this, but in a perfect world there would always be a win-win... Maybe some people manage this, but bottom line is this: where this is a split in a relationship, whether there is a 'piece of paper' or not, there is usually always pain and heartache, and one needs to realise that their journey together is over, and try be positive about a new future out there somewhere with someone new, or not..
Modern era is considered as the time when people started thinking that they no more required prophesies to live their lives....and they thought they had a scientific answer for everythin (religion became obsolete).
Now the women and men have started thinking they can manage on their own(why have a cow/bull when u can buy milk/sausage from the market approach).
Many people of this era dont know the very purpose oftheir existance in this world gand thus live their lives like "lost sheep". In all this confusion intelligent ones start questioning about existance of God, marriage, fate, destiny etc etc.
On a lighter note.
Unmarried want to tie the knot and those in it want to come out of marriage knot.
Marriage anywhere is important or else the whole world will be a bastard.. U wouldn't know if a couple marrying at a future date are brother & sister as they would know their parents (especially father)
PA the only one who has been proven wrong her is you. You are making absolutely no sense. Also I've asked you to please site your "evidence" that societies that accept out of wedlock children have higher rates of AIDS, Rape and Poverty. So far you have mentioned one (and that one is not even a good example, given it's cultural make up and history).
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
The main reason marriage is such a hasstle in the west in the divorce settelment babe:)
Marriage is important because it signifies commitment ( especially to women )..
Women all around the world are mostly of the mind...Why wont he marry me, am i not GOOD ENOUGH!!!loooooooool
The main idea about marriage , is for the " breed" 2 be clear...
If we go around fucking like bunnies with no restraint whatsoever, the result is an entire society of bastards ( litrally), and an absloute feeling of not belonging, which in its turn will sabotage the society..
Hence , making both marriage and divorce easy ( as in Islam ), makes it ok to explore ur desires and attractions towards someone, be them sexual, emotional, or whatever, and if u should feel its not working out..u can pull out..
God doesnt Shun divorce according to Islam..Not like catholicism for example...
On another note, bieng a political scientist, Its known to us ( politicla scientists that is), that the civility of any human society is directly reflected in the amount of order that regulates interhuman relationships..
and whats a more ancient and frequent human interaction that that that occurs between men and women??
To totally abandon any kind of " framework" for marriage , is to set the human society and civilsiation thousands of years back into the law of the jungle, and reduce humans to animal status..( in my openion at least)..
From another presepctive, if u ( or anyone ), feels that sigining a paper and wearing a ring is such a meanigless task/act..then why not just why not just do it ...it doesnt cost u anything, and u can always pull out at anytime ( by getting a divorce)..
i understand this arrangment can be quite hefty ( especially in north america) where divorce settelments can be very financially insain, but thats the bueaty of Islam in my openion..
U r in , u r out...u know what ur rights are, and u know what ur obligations are, and both the man and woman have the legal righ to pull out at any time...
Before u bite my head off about the ridicous marriage customs of the arabs, ( and i agree that they are totally ridiclous), u must understand that these are ARABIAN CUSTOMS, and have absolutely no root whatsoever in the religion...
so here u go, my bit hehe
enjoy and have a good one
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
statistics! I was talking to u about int'l statistics. They dont say "Black SA has high rate of AIDS, white Holland has high rate of drugs, muslim Lebanon does not report its rape cases, White UK is clear of any problems but dark skin Pakistani UK has high level of crime...etc"
Sorry Gypsy but you were wrong again. No need to insert more links. One link (YOU provided) was enough to support my point of view.
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You need to look at indvidual countries statistics Genius.
http://www.avert.org/safricastats.htm
http://www.avert.org/statindx.htm
http://www.tac.org.za/aidsstats.html
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm
I'm sure you can do a quick google search for more.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
contradictions Gypsy!
I proved you wrong about Africa & I am proving you wrong again now:
Go back & check the AIDS chart in your above link, you will not find any mention of race, skin color, religion...etc in that chart. There are names of countries only :-)
You lack a lot of education, Gypsy!
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LOL, since I don't want to confess that I'm wrong HAHAHAHAHA! The only one not confessing they are wrong here is you PA.
BTW regarding "When people/documentaries/news talk about the problems in SA they don't talk about Black South Africa, or white South Africa because then we would be talking about white USA, UK, Holland, and black USA, UK, Holland...etc."
Ummm, I don't know how many documentaries or TV programs you've watched, but yes they do tend to break down the race and religion of the communities suffering from AIDs. Why not actually do a little research yourself and see :)
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Since you don't want to confess that you were wrong about Africa & South Africa (as a country, not as the color of skin of it's people), then I am respectfully leaving you with your "valueable information" so that others (not me) can make use of it.
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So far you haven't corrected anything. You have mentioned the minority population (which unfortuntely is the ruling class) of one nation, that population of the lowest rates of Aids, rape blah blah blah. And even it's having a high AIDS rate does not discount that all of the other top countries are African and Asian that do not support out of wedlock children.
Also you CANNOT compre the Middle East or Gulf countries as they rountinely do not report their rape rates, or check the indegenious population for AIDs, etc etc.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
I am still trying to correct your info, or let you correct my info, that there is at least one country in Africa that supports out of wedlock children. We can take it from there step by step & issue by issue.
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such things in those 3 countries Gypsy. I mentioned them as countries having black people, NOT ANY OTHER THING!
Plus, the rates of crime, AIDS, rape, drugs...etc in these countries are still much much more than the rates in........for example...the middle east...or Gulf countries...
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Here are is wikipedias list of the countries with the highest REPORTED Aids rates, please note that the countries at the bottom of the list, and many at the top do not actually report their full figures as most of their population will never go and get tested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
just after we finish from SA. We need to decide if SA has high rates of those social diseases or not, so that we can tell who is getting fantastic statistics.
When people/documentaries/news talk about the problems in SA they don't talk about Black South Africa, or white South Africa because then we would be talking about white USA, UK, Holland, and black USA, UK, Holland...etc.
This is a fact: there is at least one african country (SA) that supports out of wedlock children. (No skin color is involved here)
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Also PA Holland, UK and USA have some of the lowest rates of AIDs, rape, etc....yet they accept out of wedlock children....hmmmm again.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
LOL. Was that the only argument you could come up with PA? The fact is in South Africa, which suffered for decades under this thing called apartheid (you may have heard of it) the indigenous African population is still very very sepearte from the white/European population, and the African population is still very very traditional, yet AIDS and rape, etc is highest among that population, not among the liberal European population.
And what about China and India, which have the fastest growing rates of AIDs, and high rates of rape, etc. They really don't believe in out of wedlock children, yet high rates of AIDS, rape and poverty. hmmmmmm.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
long engagements are excellent. And as I said, in my opinion, I can understand if 2 people decided to live together for a while, then decided if they should get married. But it is clear for everyone what kind of social diseases these communities that are neglecting marriage, are suffering from.
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by their color, Gypsy?
If we talk about Holland, UK, or USA we have to specify if we were talking about the whites or blacks of these countries???
I believe South Africa as a whole accepts out of wedlock children, and South Africa as a whole is 1 of hundreds of countries that suffer from high levels of crime, AIDS, drugs, rape...etc.
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It is a choice, but some people think of it has a neccessity. That society would crumble if people stopped signing those slips of paper.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
not by one but two individuals who knows they're ready to take the "BIG LEAP".
In a way, you are right, PortAlfred. But comparing the factors 10-15 years back to the current way of living, marriage is something that need to be thought about and considered.
That's why a long-term engagement would be advisable(my opinion).
You were saying that any society that would accept Azzy's decision is a society that is rampent in Aids and rape, etc. Was that not what you said?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Sorry for interruption
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Yes I realize that and I just edited my post.
And the community in South Africa with the highest AIDS rate is the black community, which is very traditional, very poor and has very high rape and Aids rates.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Your post just came in first before mine. :-)
This is not what I was telling Azilana. You have to read my post again
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"It has been proven that communities who accept out-of-wedlock children are communities suffering from extreme levels of crime, AIDS, drugs, homeless people/children, rape."
Umm proven by whom? Please site your proof, as if you look at AIDS rates the highest are in Africa and parts of Asia, which defintely do not support out of wedlock children. Actually all those places have the highest amounts of rape and poverty and the lowest education as well. Please explain to me where you are getting these fantastic statistics?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
that South Africa does not support out of wedlock children? The answer to this question will determine who is getting fantastic statistics?
BTW, there's nothing called "out of wedlock marriages"
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That is the case you are talking about PA, you are saying that having a child out of wedlock causes rape and Aids and all sorts of things and you shouldn't accept it, therefore you are telling Azzy that it was a bad decision on her part, that she should have married, because that would mean she would somehow protect her children and her society from all those things.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
that is not the case I was talking about. I was talking about 2 people in love, deciding to spend the rest of their live together & start a family. I was not talking about a woman getting pregnant from a man she doesn't really love, where she believes that she will be divorced from him in the end, even if they get married.
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because we were brought up that having a child out of wedlock is "taboo" both in the eyes of GOD and the society. And those who do otherwise may be frowned upon by the elders, conservatives and other people.
I remember when I decided to "keep" my baby, I was ostracized, disowned and practically cut off from family, friends and relatives. I refused to marry the guy because I DON"T BELIEVE in MARRIAGE JUST BECAUSE I GOT KNOCKED UP.
I said I'd rather take care of my child alone than let her see her parents separate in the end...that would be devastating to any child seeing her parents bickering and fighting over petty and not so petty things...then go on DIVORCE in the end.
That's exactly what I said: I don't see anything wrong in marriage, specially if there is love & agreement to make children & start a family!
So, in other words I was saying: why make children out of wedlock? What is so bad & ugly in having them within wedlock?
It has been proven that communities who accept out-of-wedlock children are communities suffering from extreme levels of crime, AIDS, drugs, homeless people/children, rape. Usually most of the abandoned children who are raised in orphanages don't have the chance for good education & end up being involved in all the above, and be a main reason & contribution to the above.
I can understand if 2 people decided to live together without marriage for a while just to be 100% sure that this is what they want, and they do fit with each other. But once they take a decision to start a family, why not get married? Would that be old fashioned?
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Nothing's wrong with it, I just don't understand why it's such a big deal. Considering that you're one of the people who bring up children born out of wedlock like it's the worse thing in the world, I'm taking it that you take marriage much more significantly then you just stated PA.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
I read all your posts but I still can't see what's so wrong in 2 people falling in love with each other, deciding they want to spend the rest of their lives together, having children, starting a real family life, and deciding to put all that in a legal & religious frame, and follow the traditions of their ancestors by getting married?
I am sure if traditions, religions & laws call people to live without marriage, some rebelious people would start calling for marriage
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No I wouldn't what???
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
No, you wouldn't....The claws are out...hehehehe.
'Our freedom is but a light that breaks through from another world'
Hummer sometimes a topic just needs to be brought up for people to discuss. I don't see the point of marriage (except for the fun party) I want to see why other people believe in it. I don't see why my saying that it should be tossed out is immature and selfish, it's simply my opinion, and I have a right to it, I'm not about to start lobbying to ban marriage, that would be selfish.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
I don't know what the issue is Gypsy- if you have already made up your mind about marriage and you feel so strongly about your OP....who cares what others think? Live your own life and forget what others think. To say that marriage should be tossed out altogether is immature and selfish. Just because you don't believe in it, and rightly so that's your choice, you have to remember that many people do and that's their choice!!
'Our freedom is but a light that breaks through from another world'
like I did 17 years ago. But my decision NOT to marry my daughter's dad was the RIGHT CHOICE. I was only able to prove I'm RIGHT just now...
tea tea >>>>>>>>>tea tea to the right
nobody buys tea estate to have a cup of tea.
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Shreeya, in both cases, Arragned marriages and One night stands, it comes down to sexual gratification. Just some believe that it needs to be "legitimized" by marriage and others don't.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
they would say that wouldn't they. You just have to have the courage of your convictions and if you know you can do something well on your own just do it. (That's the beauty of getting older, you don't care what others say or think.)
***********
"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out". - Richard Dawkins
Just a little diversion......I think many of my West friends really don't understand the significance of 'Arranged Marriages' either. But in the same way people from the sub-continent really don't understand the western 'One Night Stand'.
IMHO the system of arranged marriage ensures a partner for every one. Else it would have been the 'survival of the fittest' contest.
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my dad was monogamous and i m sure i ll be too. and many of my friends will be.
they may desire but that wont happen.
Yes isn't it interesting that the concept of monogamy does actually pre date religious institutions. Hmmm perhaps marriage has more to do with human nature then any idea of waylaying sin.
I want to adopt to Ragnarock. but I also want to experience pregnancy. :) (In like 10 years!! for all of you out there who think I'm going to go and get preggers tomorrow! NO! )
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
the schoolfriend I'm speaking of (who had a child out of marriage ON PURPOSE) was no youngster when she made that decision and didn't want to find she was passed giving birth before finding a permanent male companion. She honestly could never see herself finding a life partner to marry. The father of the child has been involved all along as and when he (or the child) wants him to be.
My friend is a very independent lady, and it was no surprise to me that she took such an unconventional approach to motherhood, and to her mind it was her only option to have a child.
I feel she was within her rights to make that decision - we only have one life.
Marriage as an institution is man made, and definetly precedes all religions anyway.
The social stigma (at least in Canada) is also fading as the traditional definition of a family is rapidly evolving.
As for being monogomous or not...well we could start another thread entirely on if its in mankind's nature to try and ensure immortality by spreading your genes...or wether we are wired for long term monogomous relationships....history (even pre-dating religious institutions)suggests the latter....but that could make for an interesting topic for debate.
Personally....I agree with you...I am married, but that was to please my wife only (whom I have been commited to since LONG before we said so in church)....as for you decision to have a child....might I recommend adoption....for no other reason than so many children need loving homes....whatever you decide, good luck to you.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
LIke what? I have no opinions about the monogamous capabilites of men, what I question is my own ability to commit long term to anyone.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
sorry for prejudging..
i dunno really what to say. just i can recommend u to forget it and not all guys u meet will be like that..
Go ahead, do that, I'll try to be the devil's adovcate by posting questions that have really been bugging a lot lately. LOL
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Do you want me to post it Rayyz, I'm not scared of the wrath of Qler's lol.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Duh! What I meant was try putting up a new thread stating, "Does God exist?" to get things moving on QL. I won't dare to put it up on my name and face the ire from all QL'ers! LOL
If God does exist then what happens to people from other religion who are praying to Gods from other religion?
I think at times that universe was just there (present) all the time, its just that earth had the conducive/ideal environment for creation of humans and eventually evolve into what we are right now. Its just like how bacteria is created from nowhere if food is left in trash bin for few days. They're living creatures too!
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What "free" way of life nib? and what "tastes of life" would I be missing. I've been in a long term commited relationship and shared a house with someone-so I've done that. I've been in love, i've shared bills and all the stuff you've do with a husband. I like knowing I can pick up and leave when it no longer suits me, or if I meet someone else I like more. The only thing I haven't done that I want is a child. It will still have a father, who is welcome to be in its life, I just don't need to be married to him.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Lots of people here would taliesin, many on this site bring up children born out of wedlock as the biggest problem in the West today. Which makes me think marriage must be awfully more important then it seems to me to make having a child on one's own be the worst thing I could do.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
i wudnt too.. but now i m thinking that u girls are trying to find excuses and reasons to keep ur 'free' way of life..
actually it is ur choice. but do not try to show it different..
just be sincere.
Gypsy ..whats Up .. Good topic U raised ...Well according to meh Marriage is sacred thing , which allows the people to be out of sins ..Again its very difficuilt to find a perfect partner soon .I beleive before getting married need to date a person know him/her well , but without having physical relationship, i know its difficuilt but most of them have physical relationship before marraige ....
Still after getting a good soulmate to marry n married .. most of the marriages doesnt last forever ...I feel when u trust a person to marry . Trust in god . He is the one who puts love in between the people .. Coz theres nothing in this world which can be trusted . Anyone can cheat anytime in this world......................
are these people who would make you feel 'lesser' for not wishing to marry and have a child on your own? In the West I would have thought it was easier than ever before to make that choice - providing you have enough income to be independent and support a child. Most free thinking people would not consider you a sinner or evil - I certainly wouldn't.
***********
"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out". - Richard Dawkins
what is the reason to have a baby but no dad for it?
u dont wanna miss the other tastes of life??
sorry about that but i feel i m angry:)
Where I'm from, or at least in my family, there is a stigma to being single. You're looked at as not quite right.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
"There is still a stigma in the West to being single, or choosing to be single, and people understand having a baby by accident, but not really making the choice to have one"
I don't know what Canada is like, but there is no stigma were I come from about choosing to be single. In fact my schoolfriend made a conscious decision about 20 or more years ago to get pregnant. She didn't particularly want to get married and also thought that she may NEVER get married, but she DID want a child. So she got one! She still isn't married, by the way.
Even her holier-than-thou very Catholic Irish mother accepted it without any condemnation. My mother looked a bit shocked though :D
I also know many confirmed bachelors and see no reason why women shouldn't be happily single bachelor girls also! Although I guess most of my bachelor girlfriends are probably divorcees, but HAVE been single longer than they were married.
I guess what I'm trying to figure out Frog is why it's so important to everyone that that commitment is made. Why can't we just waft in and out of relationships and have children with whom we choose. Why commit yourself to someone who may make you unhappy eventually.
Rayyz: Does God Exist, yes I think so, but there's no proof of it, and I don't think he gives a rats arse if people are married or not, but that's just me. :P
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
congrates...........one more man is going to be slaughtered...just joking
congrates
I believe in marriage and it being an institution. Am I invited? Anything for free food. :)
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2100 QL Points!!!
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I am getting married in January (here in Qatar)! I was thinking it will be wonderful if I am inviting some people from QL. I was keeping you in mind ;) but if you think that sounds silly to you I won’t!
To tell you the truth, during our courting period I was thinking exactly like the way you are. I was happy, not really answerable to anyone, having my own space whenever I wanted. Yet had to get married cos parents (yes we're Indians), came to knew something is fishy in my life back in Qatar and they thought this can't go on forever. Moreover, I was getting too old for their liking. LOL
But seriously, once you're married, after sometime, it makes a lot of sense and when you get the first hand experience of what commitment is all about and how important a marriage is in a person's life. It's something that really cannot be explained to an outsider. ;)
Speaking of controversial topics, I've been thinking of this for quite sometime. Try it if you can, "Does God exist?".
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I just don't understand why you're repeating the same thing over and over : Marriage = a piece of paper. I think marriage as a union is much more than that. Anyway, this is an agreement between two people.
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Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
haha. that wud be nice. u wud have 2 kids :)
I'm not desperate at all nib, I just know I want a child, but I'm not sure if I want an infant and a grown up one to deal with. :P LOL.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
butterfly, well at least marriage is useful for that. This is actually a cultural issue. However, Marriage in Countries like Qatar ( Arab/ Islamic) is very important. This is mainly due to religion, but the social aspect is also of equal importance.
[img_assist|nid=38314|title=Crazy Frog|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=180|height=179]
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
I'm playing devils advocate here Rayyz. People were saying there hasn't been a debate on QL in a while, I'm hoping someone will come on here and start going on about pre maritial sex or "uncovered meat" or women being lesser for not marrying or some such. :P
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
u ll have ur child ur own. then u wont be alone? u wont need a guy?
u and some other girls here.. dont be so desperate. just take it a bit easier. ur western rules unfortunately causes these things sometimes. u r forced to be independent and a powerful girl all the time but indeed none of us is like that. and being like that, scares boys! and i m sure there will be some guys for u to be together for long time, make a family, share a life...and not only bec u plan that, bec u both want it.
and i think u r not sure what u want.. i know u cant say i just want this.
i am also confused but i still have time to decide:)
Ngourlay and Jauntie:
I'm not talking about remaining single, companionship and children are an important part of life, I'm talking about the act of marriage and it's point or purpose. There is still a stigma in the West to being single, or choosing to be single, and people understand having a baby by accident, but not really making the choice to have one, at least where I'm from. And even in cases of people living together, it's viewed as a short term solution and a natural part of the "relationship process" but at the end of the day you are still expected to eventually get married.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Oh ok. It's the latter then. LOL
Well 25 posts on, we all have been trying to give our perpectives to you and yet you don't wanna see another angle to it. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to put a point across to you, when you're not in a mood to listen.
I'd like to quote Jauntie again, "Having said that I guess without it, it would have made it easier for my husband to have given up on me years ago" and, "I may also have made the mistake of leaving HIM just on a whim - the marriage laws makes you think twice and for that I'm now thankful."
People do make mistakes by going off track but these legal implications, if thats what you'd like to call it, makes it easier to bring things back to sanity.
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I don't think there is any stigma attached to people living together, having babies when unmarried etc etc any more in the West, Australia, New Zealand etc.
Maybe the best to answer your query are the Asians, Sub-Continentals and Islamic Arabs.
Not sure how it's viewed in China or Japan. Maybe there is still the dishonour question there.
I NEVER felt I HAD to get married - although I was pushed into it a bit by family (first time) and circumstances - couldn't join hub in Saudi (the second).
very well said ...
The other main point is Law & Order in Society ... We humans r social animal if no marriage there wont be any difference between us and animals
If you can't change your fate, change your attitude.
You can be equally commited to someone without being married. I lived with my partner for seven years before getting married (and shared our accounts and incomes) and honestly marriage didn´t change a thing. My wedding day was quite uneventful and I have to make a concious efford to remember the date! To be honest, the only reason we made it "legal" was so I can come to Qatar in a family visa and things would be a little easier as he would get transferred to different places over the years.
Single woman states: "I never wanted to get married, anyway. It's for idiots."
Next you'll be saying that children stop you having fun, and companionship is only for needy people.
<ducks>
I'd lose my favourite pick up line: I may be old, but I'm RICH !
Anyway what I really wanted to know wasn't the legal ramifications of marriage, but why we feel we HAVE to get married. Why is there so much social stigma attached to it.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Would you care to share those pin numbers with an online boyfriend? I don't mind receiving it thru a will either.
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changed my mind.
If that was the case Rayyz then why would I want him to be legally commited to me? I wouldn't want someone to stay with me just because a piece of paper told him too.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Jautie, under the motto "what's your is yours and what yours is mine" equal rights for all lol.
Two things :
1. The slip of paper would have definitely made him think twice. It's tried and tested, check Jauntie's post. I remember you saying that a person could be forgiven for cheating if they did realize it was a mistake. Maybe if he was "legally committed", he'd have realized soon that it was a mistake falling for someone else, while being in a state of marriage with you and you were the person he actually loved so much to choose to get married to. People do tend to go off the track once in a while.
2. Maybe you're not good enough to retain him. :)
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"kinda feminist thoughts all the time" Is not wanting to get married considered feminist?? :?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
But you could have done all that with a joint bank account. And people cheat on each other and get back together all the time or make the decision not to cheat. Marriage doesn't stop this.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
he still doesn't know the passwords for the accounts :P I shall Will them to him :D
(I think he knows where they are written down - but why spoil a good story with the facts)
LOL. I loved the part where you get to aquire all his money into your bank account. :P
You wily fox!
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2100 QL Points!!!
Yay! Way to go Ray!
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www.e4u.name.qa
Well,..the question is bit complicated, even I thought the same thing before marriage ..had kinda feminist thoughts all the time. Now after happily married for many years I wish answer it this way.
- to establish the legal father of a woman's children;
- to establish the legal mother of a man's children;
- to give the husband a monopoly in the wife's sexuality;
- to give the wife a monopoly in the husband's sexuality;
- to give the husband partial or monopolistic rights to the wife's domestic or other work .
- to give the wife partial or monopolistic rights to the husband's job/business as a trusted partner
- to give the husband rights over the property of his wife;
- to give the wife rights over the property of her husband;
- to establish a joint fund of property, a partnership, for the benefit of the children of the marriage
- to establish a socially significant ‘relationship of affinity’ between the husband and his wife.
Try it, you will love it… if you are getting married to the right person.
Gypsy Gal: I can't just try it, I'm western so I have to "win the contest" first. :P
Rayyz: He left me for someone else. This happens all the time in marriages and outside. I really don't see how a slip of paper would have stopped that.
Nib: my plan right now is to have a child on my own when I'm ready.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Something quite amusing that I saw on telvision last week, the German government are thinking of giving people a marriage contract for 7 years, after that they can decide if they want to continue with the marriage or just finish the contract.
Interesting.
what is ur plan?? tell me?:)
What would make you leave the person who you've spent 6 years of your life with? A small fault that you discovered one fine morning or an issue that has been bugging you for sometime and it took you 6 years to realize?
I mean why were you with him/her in the first place when you felt after wasting X years of your life that you two weren't meant to be together.
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2100 QL Points!!!
Yay! Way to go Ray!
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www.e4u.name.qa
I also didn't think I needed a 'piece of paper' to certify my life with someone. Having said that I guess without it, it would have made it easier for my husband to have given up on me years ago - however I had put all his money into my bank account, so he didn't :D
I may also have made the mistake of leaving HIM just on a whim - the marriage laws makes you think twice and for that I'm now thankful.
Seriously though, we make 30 years next year and have wethered all the ups and downs, good and bad times, richer and poorer and if anything those 'ups and downs' have strengthened the bond, like Rayyz was saying.
Yes frog, it is a choice, but for some reason in every cultural in the world, my choice to not marry or to have a child on my own (not by accident but as a personal choice) makes me a sinner or lesser, or evil or what have you. Why is that?
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Whatever will be said about marriage this will remain a choice. Some people would marry and prefer to do that with all the traditional tralala, some others would not :)
Seperation or divorce will always be painful be it after a marriage or not .
[img_assist|nid=38314|title=Crazy Frog|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=180|height=179]
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
"I guess marriage is all about being "committed to" and more or less to keep a control on the guy or the girl from going haywire. A person could perhaps go on a partner changing spree if you are not committed. A relationship might not even last a week if marriages don't exist. For how long could a person go on changing partners and keep discovering new partners twice, thrice or as many times a year?"
But that doesn't make sense either. In most cases you are considered commited when you refer to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend. Meaning cheating is no longer allowed. And many people stay in these relationships for years and years (6 in my case) which is as long as many marriages last. I think this "marriage means commitment" is all in our head. We are only commited to each other as long as we want to be with each other. If you decided tomorrow that you no longer wanted to be with your wife, the marriage would essentially be over except for all the nasty legal stuff.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
But how does it define society?? Is it just because we are used to the idea? It really seems to me to be something we do for the sake of doing. TO somehow legitmize our ingrained guilt of having sex.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Way to go Gyps! We need more girls thinking on lines similar to that of yours.
When do we meet up? :P
Alrite, honestly, there was a point in time after my marriage, I had thoughts echoing same sentiments. Whats with signing a piece of paper that makes me and my wife's relationship legal!??
We loved each other as much as we did before or after marriage and did same things at either sides of marriage again. She was still the same person to me the way she was a day or a week back, and so was I to her!
But it made sense to me after some time. Without giving a lengthy explanation, I guess marriage is all about being "committed to" and more or less to keep a control on the guy or the girl from going haywire. A person could perhaps go on a partner changing spree if you are not committed. A relationship might not even last a week if marriages don't exist. For how long could a person go on changing partners and keep discovering new partners twice, thrice or as many times a year?
I wouldn't really be keen to start all over again at the age of say 50 and learn life history of my partner and her preferences right from her childhood. Atleast I won't have to do that with my wife, with whom, I hope, I'd have spent 20 odd years of my life at the age of 50. But then she'd have seen ups and downs of my life and probably know me best by far. Likewise, I'd know how to treat her and be mentally in tune with her, which is best achieved by spending all those wonderful years with her.
Hope it makes sense!
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2100 QL Points!!!
Yay! Way to go Ray!
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www.e4u.name.qa
Marriage is more than a license to have sex or produce children. It has deeper meanings and different cultures have different ways of viewing it. It also has a lot of significance for all the different religions. Of course, its an entirely different matter for the non-believers.
If someone feels marriage is a waste of time, then they definitely should not do it. For that matter, if you feel that going to university is a waste of time, then don't do it, because even if you do it, you will not be faithful to yourself. Same goes for most things in your life.
But there's the thing, divorce rates are increasing world wide, which shows that the very concept of marriage is a sham. Many children are being raised in extended family situations of Step Moms and Step Dads, etc etc, so why bother with marriage in the first place? It just causes excess legal hassle and makes seperating all the more painful and frustrating.
"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco
Well dear Gypsy, you just took marriage in Asia as a model and u started making comparisons . You said ''In the West we put tones of significance onto it, too much.'' So, you agree that marriage in your countries is also considered quite important. because of that you're thinking twice before making such a crucial step:)
Marriage issue could be discussed from different views: Social, Cultural and of course religious.
I would not tackle the subject from a religious view, but socially speaking marriage is quite important. Even Women all aover the world are always looking for husbands rather than eternal boy friends. Sometimes they say they don't care, but it's most of the time JUST NOT TRUE :D
The Decision to marry in our countries ( Arabic and Muslim) is not individual. Marriage is a union of two persons as well as their mutual families. I guess this is not so different in the west. However, I see you're trying to caricatorise the whole thing "well I'm 23 now, time to tie the knot I guess, Mom, Dad find me a wife/husband."
You just have to take into consideration the cultural difference between communities: Their traditions , religion, life style. Idon't think we can standarise marriage mode. people around the globe are different , but a union between a man and a woman will always remain a complicated one.
Marriage of course is not a union set only for sex sake. This is also a first step towards forming a family. Family life is probably more secure if the union is a sorta officialised . This is actually a legal act and a type of contract.The Spiritual aspect may have more importance in this case, but legal terms are also of a certain use, especially in case of divorce.
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Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise