my thoughts on Russia-Georgia conflict
I hate War...no matter what the reasons behind. Who's wrong or right.I feel sympathy for those who were caught in between, the civilians, the children, the old women/men. Not only in Russia-Georgia but same in our country (Southern Mindanao).Why people could just live peacefully?
hey hey why to take tension of russia there are so many places in this world ?????? need help
. The Soviet invasion to Afghanistan 1979
2. Prague Spring 1968
3. Budapest Autumn 1956
don' worry, we do remember everything of what happened during Soviet time. YOu won't find one person saying it was good thing to do. And not only this.
"And one more thing I noticed, US had 40+ states united,no one broke away. What is in Russia, why some of her states wanted to break away & want to stand up on their own? Surely not oil?" Which Russian states? There is no such thing in Russia. There are different nationalities living in Russia, after the mess Gorbachev has made in our country (by the way another topic to talk about this guy west loves so much) Some of the nationalities asked the status of autonomic repablics, which they were granted) As for which of this republics what to be separate, I don't know. There was a gang in Chechnya praying to Osama bin Ladin and claiming to fight for freedom of the country (this is the one with oil)But actually it didn't come from the people and they didn't really support the bandids. Actually they formed their troops to fight against them.
If you speak aobut former Soviet Union, that is a different story. There were different countries united together and after referendum held it was agreed to let each country to separate. But before that Gorbachev managed to screw things so that wars went on in each and every country of former soviet union.
It will be better to compare such situation with Britian and not with United States where there is no enthnical and national differences between states
By the way. why Britian doesn't grand freedom to Northen Irlands, they seem to be not very pleassed to be under British. And what about Schotland, should we let it go separate too? English had hard time with them for long time. But ok, that is a different thing
back to the main issiue here South Osetia and Georgia. The last event. The whole world so worried about poor Georgia, although until now I haven't seen anything that would supprot the information that Russia has caused and serious damage in the country. Otherwise, no one says a word about what happened in Osetia. THE WHOLE CITY WAS SWEPT AWAY! Can you get it? YOu keep saying about bad Russia, invading Georgia, but please have your own head. On 8th of september Georgia opened fire on the city of Tchenvali. They bomped not the army, they bombed the entire city. People, what is happening with you???? Saakashvili ordered to sweep away the intire population of the only city of South Osetia! And in the media it was presented as if Russians enetered Georgia. They even dared to show the ruins of Tchenvali and say that it was Georgian town. Russian army came and forced Georgians aways,followed Georgian army into their country. So here we are - the invadors. And what about pure genocid committed by Georgia? Russia asked America (who as some one said is always there to help the needed) why they don't send help to South Osetia. Well, they didn't plan to do so (the first answer. Then in CNN - new version - we couldn't arrive there).
"In my opinion. the only persons who can tell the truth are not you or me or BBC. They are the people of Georgia who have witnessed the conflict/war/invasion. whatever it is called." And what about Osetians who witnessed genocid of their nation? Georgian people had been scared by what was going on, they left their homes out of scare, but nothing happened to them. On the other hand - osetians - whose homes where ruined,the loved ones were killed under constant fire attacks, the hospital was ruined, so the doctors had to treat wounded right on the spots with no facilities. The shcools were ruined, everything was ruined. I just wish some of you can see what was done there. Yes, not me, or you or CNN, or BBC, the people who has suffered genocid in 21 century and the world is keeping his mouth shut. THIS IS GLOBAL SUPPORT OF GENOCID.
War has always had it's ugly face. And innocent people keep sufferening during military operations, but to plan to level the whole city with the surface of land - that is not war - it is crime against humaninity. Please people, don't be that stupid. I know each and everyone of you care about people who suffer. And I am here not to protect Russia, I am here to protect the truth. Because while the truth is hidden and the criminals are exposed as victims, such things will go on forever.
Please don't be blind!!!!
So, you blame Russia for invading Georgia. What about South Osetia?
better late then never
now a US destroyer has harboured in a Georgian port on the Black Sea!
This is what I call sticking your nose in other people's business! This is how world peace gets jeopardized!
I think that in this case the Russians should not let such threats be at their door. They should send back their troops to the lands they withdrew from, and should start aiming their missiles on that US warship!
Although Sheranna commented:"Until now I know only about America screwing the world around." And maybe some Americans believe so, and maybe some people of this planet believe so, at the end of the drama, the first people I see when disasters come for rescue are the Americans.Of course, I may sound biased but,putting the media aside, Americans are the first to rescue, to initiate, to campaign or volunteer such as in Food Aids, Emergency Rescue & the likes. Helping countries here & there, sending food aids here & there, yet when disasters came to their homeland, I supposed they didn't expect help from outside but just tried to get on their own & try to move on. And one more thing I noticed, US had 40+ states united,no one broke away. What is in Russia, why some of her states wanted to break away & want to stand up on their own? Surely not oil?
I have learned not to believe all what I hear or read. we have to think and weigh things, then judge. although our judgement could not be correct.
with due respect to your opinion, there is history which no one can ignore. let me recall few incidents that some know about and some have no idea about it:
1. The Soviet invasion to Afghanistan 1979
2. Prague Spring 1968
3. Budapest Autumn 1956
Do you think that USSR was a victim in all the above incidents which led to disasters?
In my opinion. the only persons who can tell the truth are not you or me or BBC. They are the people of Georgia who have witnessed the conflict/war/invasion. whatever it is called.
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
From the start the story about Politkovskaya. Tell me, who said that she was assisinated by Putin's order? I know the story from another side. Tell me the reason why I should believe the American side and not believe the opposite side (I don't say Russian because it is not necessary to be Russian, it is enough to be the opposite to the american point of view)
You see, the whole picture of Russia you get from the sources of American origine. Actually 90% of the world gets that side of the story. Why on Earth we have no right to doubt this source but are called stupid (as Tig said regarding my belief in Russian media)if we dare to believe Russian or simply opposite source. Just because America try to picture Putin as a new Stalin, we all as one should assume that he is one. America draw a picuter of a big scary monster called Russia and with all it's methods makes the whole world believe that. Yes, of course, there is some bad history behind Soviet Union, but this doesn't automaticaly means that Russia will keep the track. ESpecially that right now there is nothing Russia has done to prove American suspicions (except well fabricated lies from American side, which with time are discovered by not announced as loudly as it was with the lie). The recent war is a good example. Georgia bombed Tshinvali, CNN showing the footage made in Osetia comments that it was Russian troops attacking Georgia. That is of course very supportive of America's clams that Russia is a threat to the world. Until now I know only about America screwing the world around. You tell me about one Poiltkovskaia which didn't have any problems with Russian government, and who knows who killed her. As for head of oil company, I wish to know more about that before commenting, because being outside of Russia for 10 years now, I do not always have access to Russian news.( So I too have to depend on such biased sources like CNN and, honestly, the arab media too)Will go more to BBC now :-)
Right now I hear from BAhrain TV - Russian troops are leaving the invaded territories of Georgia. It's ridiculous. So, throwing the killers out of the place where they blew up the entire population of the only city of South Osetia and following them to their territory is called invading now. What georgia did was pure genocide-to bomb the city, knowing that the only solders there are some peace forces (including the georgian peace troops, which flew before the start of bombing). I guess, Russia had to stay still and wait until the city is leveled with land and then inform that they do not approve of such actions. Then probably America would say that it was Russian troops that swept the city and to protect the remainings of Osetia it would be forcefully joined to Georgia. And by approval of United Nations and etc international organizations America will locate their troops there to guard the big scary Bear. Maybe this was the scenario for the operation started by Georgia, but alas! Russians were more stupid and decided to defend little tiny country.
Now tell me someone, do you think if Russia wanted that small piece of land under it's hand, it wouldn't do it long time ago. We had plenty of chances, why on earth Russia keep asking for negotiations between Georgia and Osetia (as well as Abhazia) instead of grabing them. It is not that difficult for that "Big Monster" called Russia. Why, by the way Russia politely left Crimia penensula to Ukrane and asks now Ukraine permittion to keep Russian fleet there? Although this land was Russian for centuries. The whole place was build by Russians, the majority of the population are russians, more over they insist to be returned to Russia. Why Russia just doesn't do the American way - go and grab. Do you think we have not enough forces for that, or are we afraid of America? No, just being polite and trying to keep the rules and desicions made by international authorities.
Thanks brit for being patient and polite. But I wish you do some search for more independant sources before you tell me that Putin is reincarnated Stalin and Russia seeks the status of superpower and is a threat to the world.
A word to Alexa. I studied in America for one year. It was a one year exchange students program. I had no single thought to stay in America. I liked the people, I liked the place I was in Michigan. I wish to visit my friends there one more time, but it never crossed my mind to stay there. Don't worry, I don't hate America, american people. But I do strongly disaprove the international politics of American government. And I think that majority of the world population will silently agree with me. The way American government let itself deal with other countries shows their biased standards and ill intentions almost in every act.Each action starts with a lie, and then it comes clear infront of the world and everyone keeps silence!
..... Although I do know about many charity organizations from America who do their great job helping people around the world. So I wouldn't like to mix here the people with the governement. As for Russian government. I repeat. You have one sided information and believing it solemnly, denying anything that doesn't agree with that is wrong. You are bought in all these fabricated lies that are offered, but has anyone tried to dig for the truth? politkovskaya was killed by Putin and for political reason. Who said so? American media. Of course we must believe, beacause russian media is biased. And what about American????
The word "nationalistic" is very far from reality. As I understand it - nationalist centers his nationality and feels suprime towards any other. Although there are such movements in Russia (as I said before), and don't tell me there is nothing like this exists in any other country, but there is no single thing that shows the support of such movenment in governement and among the majority of population. What Putin has done - he just let people feel proud of their country. Simply because there is something real we can be proud of. The country is under control? Yes, but I said before the people against the "regime" are still around. We see them live and talking, no one shut them down. Well, not on the main channels, but who needs will get them, it is not that difficult.
Please get real. Why, why you are ready to fight for each word you hear from international media?Has it proved to be truthful and unbiased? Don't assume that I insist that Russian media is absolutelly truthful.But it keeps proving to be so, at least most of the time....with time....
sorry again for a long post, I am really bad at being short.
better late then never
you can never change the hateful soul you have...your hate for everything that is not american, is very clear. You'd defend them & blame others (specially Islam), no matter what mess, chaos & tragedies they cause.
You should pull your little head out of the sand, start to see facts, and stop your stupid & hateful blame game
"Not european one bit..unless you consider a Commie
european...i actually don't...even though i know that is not quite right...I can't stand commies"
Right...all the immoral and bad things were forced on to you by the communists..., i am so sick and tired of people spewing all this trash......I admittedly do not know much about politics or world economy, but I do know this....if you don't want it don't take it....are you seriously saying communist radio encouraged American people to sell and take drugs???? Is it also the communists who are the biggest gangsters in America....to shoot black people & red indians to obtain their lands and so on and so forth? Is that the reason why all americans around the world need bodyguards and armoured cars? or wait...they are really disguised communistss ...
Seriously........sounds suspiciously like westerners ranting against Islam and blaming all the ills/diseases of THEIR society on Islam......the blame game reinvented....God bless Eisenhower and Ataturk...plus all the other pure heros.....lol
Long post, but you are incorrect on many things..
Putin is the power behind the throne.. Anyone who crosses him is jailed or done away with.. As was the case with Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the former head of Yukos oil company.
In 1996, anti Putin journalist, Anna Politkovskaya was assasinated..
Putin has "rehabilitated" Stalin and played on the nationalistic theme by trying to enforce Russia's past traditions of authoritarian rule.
Until I get boiling point and want kick some azz of course....Actually I don't blame them...
If I was stuck out of America I be jealous and pissed too...
I am grateful for what I have......
You can't teach experience...
You can't teach experience...
So I will just have to agree with what you said...
You can't teach experience...
"...the Russians have ALWAYS thought that." meaning that we think we are always right? First of all, that is not true. I think we blame ourselves for many things more then enough. Should stop doing that and start be proud like americans. By the way, I spent one year in America. Great country, wonderful people. Honestly!!! What was funny, how easy it was to trick them into saying silly things about Russia and they would accept without thinking. Things like bears on streets of cities, they believed with no doubt. And intersting thing - they thought that there was no summer, no sun, no green trees or grass in Russia, just snowing and raining forever. Well, I could understand the story with bears, but this was unbelivable. It's simple geography. Anyway, that is about how easy it is to make people believe what you want them believe.
Regarding the topic of this forum. The war. Has anyone asked himself who started the war and why? I hope now it is more clear for the people of the world that Georgia attacked South Osetia, the intersting thing that West knew about the attack, but Russia was not informed. The name of the operation of Georgian army was called "clean field" I guess, they aimed at sweeping the whole population from the surface of land. Then Russia acted as a defender of Osetia and then, in a tricky way of America it turned into attacker of poor Georgia. I don't want to say that Russian sources of information are honest one hunderd percent. They've never shown anything about Georgia and what Russian army has done there. But I beileve - not much at all, otherwise American sources would love to use the chance to show the world how cruel Russians destroyed tiny country of Georgia. But until now they just played with the footage from Osetia saying it was Georgia. More about Russian sources of information. I would agree that Russian sources are one-sided. Ok, that is fine, at the time of such great informational technologies we have no problem to access the oposite opinions. But when it is so clear that the opposite opinions are liars, then why not believe the Russian side? Especially when Russia so often says - come and see for yourself, we do not block access to anyone, monitor, do make sure that we do everything the way it supposed to be, we do not mind. Another thing. Now Americans send ships through Black sea, as they say ,with humanitarian help for Georgia. Russian authorities said - that is fine, but what about Osetia, it has suffered terrible damage, well, the American ambassador in Russia couldn't give any answer. What can you call that? You see, Saakashvili, as well as Ukranian leaders feel the power of American government at their backs and think they can do anything. Sweep the whole city from the surface of earth, request gas from Russia by the price they think is siutable for them and not the price the whole world pays (that is small thing, but really "funny" because America at that time accused Russians of being bad guys, not giving Ukraine chance to dectate us their rules).
I see, I generalize. Well, because the ussie is not just aobut the Georgia-Osetia conflict? or any particular happening in the world. It is about the World's attitiude to Russia. Returning to my stay in America, after about half-year of staying their and watching American television I started to believe that Russians are gloomy angry people, Soviet Union is an agressor and I almost believed that we don't have sun.EVER. I hadn't seen one picture of Russia where it was sunny and nice. So, really we cannot blame the world for thinking about Russia the way they think. No, I don't try to justify all the bad things Russia and Soviet Union has done. I understand Polish, who hate Russia until now (I am not talking abut Soviets time, we had our history from very long time ago(although cannot understand why they thought that Hitler would be better???). I am surprised about quite people of North Russia who actually faced the destiny of Red indians of America, but being peacful at nature they've been quitely exticting. I don't need even to mention the whole eastern Europe.Or the stupid war in Afghanistan but, when it comes to truth, it must be truth.
Putin.....well, West compares him to Stalin (geogrian by nationality :-)), to HItler.... Very wrong. (He is from KGB, by the way (I think similar to CIB in America)). You see, when Eltsin came to power, he, being ignorant clown, simply let America tear us to pieces. You should've been in Russia at that time. We were bombarded with all the immoral things West could offer us. Once closed country with rules, morals of behaviour (I speak about people, not the country)and then suddenly - freedom of everything. America had put down our agriculture throwing into our country american products. YOu won't believe how angry they were when we refused to buy their chicken because it didn't pass the health inspection. Radio and TV - all prasing America, the "Svoboda"(Freedom) station where we had to hear how wonderful this country was and how we must follow it step by step and be gratefull that it introduced us to the real democracy. Hey, girls, why are you so shy and wear such old fashoned clothes, go on undress. Hey guys, why not try new type of drugs, and there are wonderful ways to earn money by stilling, robing, killing etc etc. EVeryday from every radio station. We watched american and westren movies without cut out pieces for the first time with opened mouths and couldn't believe how those lovely movies we all liked were stuffed with dirty things. I was there, I passed through this. I was teenager at that time and my morality was shaken, thanks God, not ruined like many others'. And then Putin came. Put the "Svoboda" station somewhere to the outscurts of informational field, (although they still can yell their garbage as much as they pleased, but not on main radio stations anymore) He suddenly found money to pay back all the debts Eltsin managed to make during his rein, making America furious, he refused that America put their nose into our internal affairs, he threw one by one those who bowed down to America (no, no, don't think that Putin has introduced them to public this way. They shew their true faces long ago and people were furious long ago before we even heard Putin's name). Well, you see, Putin didn't need to do a lot of informational work to win people to his side. He did what people waited to be done long ago. He won Russians hearts easily just by doing what everyone was talking had to be done. So,comparing him to Stalin is wrong. Stalin kept people in fear and ignorance. No one will put you in prison if you say anything against Putin (we go on discussing him, making fun out of him on TV, I haven't noticed that anyone made any joke about Putin has dissapeared form our TV screens)Or anyone of us was attacked by police for public discussion of the president in a negative or questioning manner .(the ugly lies about demonstrations against Putins "regime" is really a big fat lie of America. I guess that idiots from Svoboda station try to stir up things here in Russia. I understand them, they lost their powers). I've spoken to many, everyone wish he stay forever, doesn't matter how many mistakes anyone finds in his acts not many (if any) wish him to be gone.(although I personally know one, who wish so. As he puts it - they are all the same, life in Russia is not getting much better with him or without) Well, I see your smiles - how this Putin played in our brains. But the truth always comes out especially now, when it is so easy to see things from another point of view. Until now except baseless occusations we don't see anything against Putin. We only see, that America started to fear Russia more then ever. Well, Russia is not threataning them anyway.
As for comparing Putin to Hitler. Well, I have not noticed any of Hitler ambitions in Putin's behaviour. Until now he only has asked other not to put their nose into our bussiness. I think it is fair enough, espeically that until now in reality (not according to what America says, there were no breaking of any inernational rules and laws by Russia)
Don't worry, Russians now are not the same as at the time of Soviet Union, although even at that time there were people who understood the truth. There are much more especially younger people who think twice before believing what is said on TV in Russia. There are enough those who doubt the information, who are not bought into what is said and go on digging for the truth. But we are once again the people who love their own country. And I think it is a big achievment of Putin, whom you all hate so much. I know it is difficult to understand for you, when you didn't pass through the fall of dignity and ruining of the history of your country. When you hate your country and blame it for all the bad things happen around and with you personally. On destroyed, ruined land, where history is not remembered, the glory of the country is not prased, the falls of the country are not acceptedas lessons for future the generation of immorals, people with retarded souls will grow. I guess, that was the aim of America in nineties, this is why they are so angry with Putin, he ruined their plan of destroying Russia from within. I am not repeating what I heard on TV or radio, or I read in newspapers etc. That is my own thought of the person who lived through the fall of my country and witness it's raise. I think each person of the world has the right to be proud of his country. Why do you deny us to have it?
Lets assume that Putin keeps his people in fear and ignorance. What in reality he has done to the world that you are so hateful of him. Please tell, I really wish to know. BEcause until now I've heard only strange baseless information, which no one of us can find support of.
Thanks for everyone who tries to be unbiased, who through the shower of lies try to stand to simply human morals and instead of hatefully throwing bad words into faces of the representatives of this or that country tires to see the big picture.
And as I said, the truth will be seen. The real intentions of Russian government will be seen in the nearest future. If they are the treat to the world and aim at being super-power with control over the planet. We will soon see the real acts of such ambitions. LIke America actutally the Britain too, has repeatedly shown us its hunger to oil and desire to cut the world according to it's prefferences. Or no one noticed???? Or is that only Russian biased information????
Sorry for much writting. One more thing. Tig, you suggested that I better believe BBC, then Russian sources. In the case of Osetia-Georgia conflict, it seems that Russian sources are very honest. From now on will always compare Russian news with BBC.
(one more - regarding puting those against Putin in prison. I said, that anti-government station do exist, the leaders of opposition are seen on TV screens, with only difference that not on the main channels. So, no one put them to prison until now. Surprising? All of them we know from Eltsin time, they are all hanging around. Actually better if they are put to prison or sent to America, or whatever, because the garbage they says is really shamefull. But even so, my mother keep listening to them just not to be bought into "lies" of main stream. And until now they said nothing different from what we can hear on CNN and all other American sources which are so easily accessed in Russia)
Oh, sorry, one more thing. Nationalism, although florishinhg now in Russia is not supported by govrnment in any ways. It is the same way as in Egypt the fundamentalism is not supported and it's leaders are even prosecuted(but surprisingly the main leaders of fundamentalists easily get British nationalities and no more available for Egyptian government. I wish someone explains that starnge position of Britain towards famious fundamentalists-terrorists).
Putin has never addressed Russians using the expression "National Pride". The pride people have to their country is natural, when you feel your government finally does some rightful things. Which sources do you have, brit?
Yeh, we praise Putin. We had enough madmen, starting from useless Tsar Nicolai, followed by "Hitler" No1 Lenin (except that this one aimed not at demolishing the world, but at demolishing his own country at first) then Hitler No2 - Stalin (who is the closest to the original), then the real madman Hrushov. Then the slowly dieing marionnette of government Brezhnev. Then illiteral Gorbachev, who didn't know what to do and where to start and put the country through wars and mass destraction. Then another madman - Eltsin, loud speaker with little brain. He ruined the country to the ashes. And then - Putin, who built the country back, regained it's power, stopped being dependant on the world, made things work again, lets say not perfectly, but it works and going the way to better - very clearly to people living inside. It is not because we are told that we live better, but because it is really so. Again, not everythig perfect, many things people are not happy with....... So, tell me, why on Earth we should be unhappy with Putin,if until now everything he has done turned the counry to a better way? Why should we consider him a madman, or despot, tyran, whatever, if for the first time since more then 20 years ago we do not bow our head to West and America. For the first time we see that the road leads to light and not to destraction and darkness. Why not being proud of that?
better late then never
Russia as a country is booming. However, the wealth still hasn't filtered down to all areas of the population.
Putin is cleverly using "Nationalism" and "Ntional Pride" to keep the peasants at bay and ensure that there is no real dissention.
Why are you surprised to find that the BBC is truthful? In my humble opinion it is the least biased and most accurate news agency in the world. It is not perfect but it is independent and is not a government news agency. Every successive British Government complains about the BBC and claims it is biased against them. That is the sign of a good independent news service. The BBC is funded by British tax payers but it is a corporation owned by the people and not by the government.
Russian news sources on the other hand are just crap organs of the state and unless they are pro Putin they get closed down and their owners put in prison. You are very stupid if you trust Russian sources. Better to trust the BBC.
By the way, I do know a little about Russia. I lived there for two years and generally liked the place and the people. But I would say that Russians are even more gullible than Americans. At least we know our government is crap and our President is a madman. On the other hand you guys seem to think that Putin is a great hero and that Russia is always in the right.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Does that surprise you Tig, the Russians have ALWAYS thought that. Hell they did a poll a few years ago and 64% of the country would elect Stalin if he ran for office.
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I'm sorry but I'm seeing a lot of over generalization. You taking an entire group of people and giving them one mind and one voice. Bullshit! As for the media be it American or no its not about spreading knowledge and understanding, its about making waves and being prominent. You talk about power and corruption! Look at the media and while you do take the information as possibles, may be probables but not definates. I always thought America had their head up their ass over 911 because they'd lived in a bubble so long any outward influence seemed fictional but now I'm realizing that tunnel vision of one country against another is worldwide. Because of technology we are now an international community, why must we be such seperatists? Stop wasting your time attacking a group of people(Russians, Americans, try fricking humans.) Do something useful like supporting cooperation with international entities.
Thanks for the update.. Good to hear "the other side"..
As I said before, hopefully it will be better to have two superpowers again..
:-)
what the world thinks of Russia as of this conflict with Georgia.As I've said, who knows?We'll never know the real story until we're on those shoes of countries devastated by war.What I pity about are the orphans, the widows, the ruins of lives these wars left behind. On the contrary, yes,perhaps Russia needs some American teachers:)
So here I am.
Really surprised to find a truthfull information on BBC. Cannot believe my eyes! So, this is pro-russian. And you guys just go on buying the pro-american informational garbage they try to feed all the world with. I am shocked how easely everyone buys into what America whats people to think and as soon as someone tries to be honest and tells the truth, they are called pro-whoever. Russia didn't win in this war. She lost, she lost the informational war. We've always lost this kind of war. Really we need some teachers from America, who screams and yells about enemies of the world long before anyone tries to do something against what America thinks must be right. Someone mentioned Chechnya. Well, historically - Russian territory. But America decided it must be separate. Just like this. (of course they wouldn't think of some useless pieces of land) Checnnya has oil. And when Russia disagreed on that America called them anti-democratic (the least). Russia was presented as a monster who is seaking control over the Earth. Now Georgia. There is no town or city in Georgia was touched by Russian army. But they show Tschenvali(South Osetia's town) ruins and say that's Georgia's town. It's a big fat lie of American media. I don't know guys, do they translate any of statements Russian officials including the presedent say? They keep saying that there is nothing we need from Qeorgia, we don't even claim Osetia as our land, we refuse to accept their autonomy because we follow the rules. We said million times, whatever South Osetia decides we accept. We say to everyone, come and see for yourself, we don't close the borders, we don't hide the information. But no, everyone prefers to repeat like a parrot what America has said. ANd if someone gets the mind of his own, goes and sees for himself - then he is pro-russian. Hello the World, what is happening to you?
No one has right to even protect themselves or help someone who asked for help without American approval. And America never approves anyone except itself.
Unfortunatelly the whole world, hopefully unintentionally, became pro-American. Please, have mind of your own. How can you believe the American media reproting news in Russia. So easy to assume - it will be always against Russia. The only thing America can accept from Russia that Russia licks its b.... But I swear - we have our pride and it will never happen The lucky for America time, when we were ruled by Eltsin, who sold us out for America has finished. This what America hates about Putin. He threw them out of Russia and doesn't allow them to destroy us within as they tried it during their lucky ninties. I don't know, I feel the world has gone mad. To love your own country to be proud of it, to fight for it's dignity, to be honest and follow the rules has become a sighn of unti-democracy, terrorism, and desire for super-power. We better learn to be sneaky and liers, then we can win that informational war, America has started with us. But sooner or later the truth will come out. YOu can compare Putin to Hitler (America is thrilled, you do, think and say what they need) YOu can say that Russia seacks world power, you can say, Russia wants to control the world, to be the only energy supplier (until now only America is so suspciously interested in each and every piece of land on the Earth where there is oil), but the truth will come out one day. I wish you start to think for yourself right now, before you discover being America's personal parrot.
And really thanks to BBC for having it's own mind and not being afraid to be truthfull.
Has anyone seen the episode with a osetian girl and her aunt, who's been interviewed on American program? I didn't know had I to be angry or to laugh. They asked her to describe how Russian monsters attacked them, but the girl suddenly said that it was Georgian army and when the guy shocked by girl's answer turned to her aunt, she supported the girl. The guy just murmered that the time is up and they put a commercial. That was a small failure of American fabricated lie. But they still have a lot to say, listen carefully, so you can remember and keep repeating it like a prayer - Russians are occupants, terrorists, invadors etc, etc.
Have a nice time everyone
better late then never
1)Putin's Power: &feature=related
2)Bush's Power: &feature=related
"The State, completely in its genesis, essentially and almost completely during the stages of its existence, is a social institution, forced by a victorious group of men on a defeated group, with the sole purpose of regulating the dominion of the victorious group over the vanquished, and securing itself against revolt from within and attacks from abroad. Teleologically, this dominion had no other purpose than the economic exploitation of the vanquished by the victors."
Franz Oppenheimer
.
DONT WATCH IF YOU'RE UNDER 18:
&feature=related
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7558619.stm
Its just my imagine running away from me. In practise I am hardly ever right about anything.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
its true>>>>>>>> thats why the war will never stop ???? and if it stop then there will be peace in this world ??? it will happen one day lets keep hope
LOL
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
hiiiiiiiiiii every one
Ya I'm not to keen on wiping out a whole nation with a cough.
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Mr Paul - you mean you dont have one?
gypo...maybe a pacific island - I dont know!
can't i just stay in Qatar?
[img_assist|nid=103941|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
We can go live with these guys Oryx: http://www.survival-international.org/tribes/isolatedperu
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Where does that leave us?
Do I have to go an live in Irian Jaya with a tribe that wears penis gourds and learn to roast monkey meat?
Or can I stay in Qatar?
[img_assist|nid=103941|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
just like in a movie!lol!
Actually I've been thinking along similar lines Tig for a long time. You put it so much nicer then I could though. :)
p>
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As usual, I am ahead of myself.
>
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Ever read Putin's book? I haven't but will try to find it in the library.
WW4 has definitely started, it is an economic war.
We are now in a pre-Munich appeasement phase of things, i.e. the West is in denial that WW4 has already commenced.
But it's an economic war, not a military war.
These are the players:
Starring:
Russia, today = Germany, then
humiliation of losing the Soviet Empire in 1989 = humiliation of losing WW1, and Kaiser, in 1918
humiliation of bankruptcy in the 90s (blamed on foreigners) = humiliation of bankruptcy in the 20s (blamed on Jews)
Putin = Hitler
book "First Person" = book "Mein Kampf"
energy markets, today = 'Raum', then
Russia's energy weapon (against EU) = Germany's military weapon (against Central/East Europe)
Pretext:
Georgia, today = Czechoslovakia, then
South Ossetian Russians, today = Sudetenland Germans, then
Opposition:
EU, today = France, then (i.e. hopelessly over-challenged)
US, today (preoccupied with retaining its Gulf/Asian colonies/assets/markets etc.) = UK, then (preoccupied with keeping Indian colonies, etc..)
Obama or McCain, today = Chamberlain then
{Cheney if McCain wins 2008 election, McCain if Obama wins 2008 election}, soon = Churchill, then
Activities:
Russian take-over of energy markets, today = German invasion of Central/East Europe, then
Gasprom, today = SS/Gestapo, then
Sale of energy distribution companies to Gasprom, today = submission to Hitler (Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc..), then
Other players:
China, today (will watch from the sidelines; will walk away with the chips at the end) = US, then (like China today, the US in the 30s was an imperfect democracy -racism, poverty- but very dynamic)
OPEC, today (Russia has non-aggression agreements with Iran, Libya, etc.) = Soviet Union, then
The end ?:
Following an intensive scientific effort (mobilised along the lines of the US 'Manhattan Project'), Chinese scientists will eventually invent a new form of (electro-magnetic ?) energy generation, and the consequence of the Chinese E bomb (E for energy supply bomb) will be twofold:
1. China will assume world economic and political leadership
2. Russia and OPEC will no longer be able to play the energy weapon (but oil/gas will remain important for the plastics industry)
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
I hope so. However, with the way the world seems to be working today, I don't hold out much hope.
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IMHO , Force was not neccessary..
However, Russia was looking for an excuse to teach a lesson to its ex sattelite countries and also to the West for "encroaching" on its domain..
In a perverse way, it might help things in the long run..
Both countries may now be more vary of unilateral action.
I know the excuses, but I still don't see how force was necessary. Granted I never saw the purpose of it in Iraq or Afghanistan either.
I agree it's a horribly dangerous scenario, especially since (can't remember where I read this) Putin is an old-school European leader who believes in dominance and the US don't want to give an inch to another superpower.
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The political machine triumphs because it is a united minority acting against a divided majority.
— Will Durant
The mistake a lot of politicians make is in forgetting they've been appointed and thinking they've been anointed.
— Claude D. Pepper
Run for office? No. I've slept with too many women, I've done too many drugs, and I've been to too many parties.
— George Clooney
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.
— Ronald Reagan
Politics is perhaps the only profession for which no preparation is thought necessary.
— Robert Louis Stevenson
Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book.
— Ronald Reagan
Politicians are wonderful people as long as they stay away from things they don't understand, such as working for a living.
— P. J. ORourke
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.
— Plato
Oh and if you would really like to laugh, watch this man.
A politician who said, My god! Look how screwed up everything is, this is so bad its funny. And the comedian was born.
If anyone gets irritated with this just know I can act political too and I'll blame it on Britexpat for starting it. (his quote)
Russia used the excuse that its "citizens" were in danger and also responded to a Georgian attack in the breakaway province of South Ossetia.
Russia says that it was justified, using similar premise as the USA, when taking on Afghanizatan and Iraq..
This scenario is very dangerous for the future..It means that the Superpowers can take unilateral action using the excuse that their "citizens" were in danger..
In the near past wars are presented just becouse not to close down the weapons manufacturer!And becouse humans are being wildest and animals turning to become more friendly to each other :)
we could put our shoes in everywhere there's war.say..MILF in the Philippines too?
Hmmmmmm....this is such an interesting scenario from a political point of view.
NATO is accusing Russia of Cold War thinking, Russia is accusing NATO of Cold War thinking. And both are absolutely right to do so.
Meanwhile the Georgians are paying for the fact that they, ahem, got a little to big for their britches.
The sad thing is that nowhere do I see the need for Russia to invade Georgia?? All the issues could have been solved politically, through sit downs and meetings and no innocents would have had to die.
IT just seems to me like Russia and NATO are trying to say "Look! See! We still big men!" by playing with a tiny country that was suffering internal political strife.
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these days, there are too many sheos where we can put ourselves in...we are actually puzzled...shall we try the Palestinean shoes? The Afghani? The Somali? The Iraqi? The Lebanese? The Cosovian? The Bosnian? The Sudanese? The Kashmir? The Chechnyan?...etc..etc..etc
if we are Georgian residents?We seem to be an 'experts' just looking the situation from afar. But I really doubt if we're are in their shoes.
"Politics - A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage." Ambrose Bierce
she is "frustrated with Russia's refusal for immediate withdrawal from Georgia"
What a b1tch! I mean, she comes from the No.1 outlaw/terrorist/criminal country, and she dares call other countries as "outlaws"!
This is how political prostitution looks like!
I don't know about the fliend stuff.
Are you referring about the nationals that are hosting the current Olympics?
No problems pisso, slang from the mid-west for friend.
Here is the funny thing about charging the batteries in the UK, I believe you name it The Energizer?? LOL
Some people call him Commander in Chief, others the Mad Cowboy!!
I hear St. Patrick was an Englishman!"
You call it Hood, we Bonnet
You call it a Trunk, we Boot
You call it a Faucet, we Tap
you call it an eraser, we rubber
You call him President, we Wan**^
Its only terms..
Will you be my fliend ?
let's see...do we have a score now? he!he!he!
Britexpat said:
Yes! Seperated by a common language..
Yes! Separated by a common accent and a big Ocean.
Do you know why Americans do not consider the UK an Island anymore?
You guys got a tunnel connecting the UK to Europe.
I hear St. Patrick was an Englishman!"
Yes! Seperated by a common language..
aren't Brits & Americans cousins??? (scratching head)...
I can understand Vegas point. If you look at the discussions you will find a lot of bashing with United States involvement and those damn Americans. This is frustrating. I think you should seperate the governments from the people like I said last night.
I read a lot about the disenchanted expates over what their country has become. Brits and Americans.
The meeting will come to nothing.. They'll meet, discuss, then come up with a strongly worded statement which will be meaningless..
Perhaps it is those who think outside of the box who get it right sometimes? A lonely position to be in at times!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Avignon, France, on Sept 5-6.
AbuAmerican..Thanks for the support buddy.. We argue, have laugh and learn from each other..
Drac..
You are so right.. Putin is pulling the strings.. The worrying thing is that he could be around for a very long time..
The West needs to be very wary..Madeleine Albright the former U.S. Secretary of State rescribed Putin as someone who is more likely to define his job than be defined by it.
"After our first meetings, in 1999 and 2000, I described him in my journal as "shrewd, confident, hard-working, patriotic, and ingratiating." In the years since, he has become more confident and — to Westerners — decidedly less ingratiating."
His vision of Russia is that of a great power in the old-fashioned European sense. Such powers have spheres of influence and subjugate lesser powers. At home, they celebrate national traditions and prize collective glory, not individual freedom.
Aahhhh why Americans and Britons always like to create picture of Europe and all parts of world....you need some Russians here and discusion will be full....hellooooo any Russians around here on QL....helloooooo come over here to create destiny of world....can you hear meeeeeee.....heeelllooooooo....LOL:)
They always get grouchy this time of the night....leave Britexpat aloooone!!! grrrrrr...
Emotions aside, why cant there be a civil discussion without personal attacks? There's a thought!
"Quit hanging on to the handrails . . . Let go. Surrender. Go for the ride of your life. Do it every day." Melody Beattie
stop this "fight" until 2008,Sept 5-6
After we'll see!
It's clear that Putin, not Medvedev, is in charge.
This has ended Medvedev's honeymoon with the West.
We had hoped for a new start.
Now we have a new start, but of a different kind...
b
Read my comments again..
Did I say I like Chavez or that we should pull out of Afghanistan ??
Nummerous British soldiers have died for this cause..
You can't teach experience
You can't teach experience
My personal opinions...
I love Fidel. He was hampered by the sanctions, but could have opened up more. Cuba has a great welfare state and superb healthcare , but is lacking in many other aspects.
Venezuela. Rich in oil money. Chavez came to power promising to help the poor. He's pissed off the Americans, which is not the way to go. He's become a bit of a dictator ans still has to deliver..
Didn't say we should pull out of Afghanistan., My view is that the Alies should not be there under the NATO flag..
1-Do you have high remarks about Fidel Castro socialism reform?
2-What is your opinion of the current president of Venezuela?
3-Why we should pull out of Afghanistan and not Iraq?
I hear St. Patrick was an Englishman!"
meaningless if you feel god doesn't exist.
Federal Republic of Germany ???
i've seen half the countries with that type of government system that worked peacefully and communicatively fine.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Socialism does not work anywhere.. You need to find a middle ground..
By the way.. You might be interested in the following..
An alternative view regarding NATO
http://www.jwv.org/content/item/nato_a_relic
In US even you don't have health care it taken care of...
My brother had heart attack with no insurance...
They did the splint
And wrote it off...
He didn't have to pay...
So it's not as bad as they make it sound...
Just I know from ex in laws...Life is sucking in Germany now...so be careful what you ask for...
Back in the day you whine you get sent for massage...
Think....
Socialism will not work in US...
I use to think it would...
But I woke up...
You can't teach experience
I agree.. Western Europe has gone too far left.. People have become too dependent on the government for handouts..
However, isn't it better to have a welfare system, then allow a certain strata of society to suffer ??
Remember the suffering of the poor after Katrina !
Vegas...you are fuming with rage...lol
Spiting fire and brimstone....lol
Now it sucks....
Why these people come to Doha...
You can't teach experience
They like..You mean I can't go for a week of massage???
Or the spa for stress....
No you can't...
Your lucky if you can get in for check up...
80s were good..This is the 2000...
Sorry
You can't teach experience
I will be dammed if that happens in USA
You can't teach experience
And let us do the hard work...
I guess we be waiting for you call...
You can't teach experience
...for the final settlement as is NATO or Euro forces ain't effective...no matter how much the UN has 'intervened' in several nations fer years...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
You can't teach experience
IMHO .. NATO is a relic and should be disbanded now.. The Europeans should have their own unified rapid reaction force..
The European force should have strong ties with the American forces regarding intelligence , tactical and weaponry.
NATO should not be in Afghanistan. It has no business there.
Britexpat:
Why don't you try to stick to the 20 century and 21 century is more interesting.
Europeans
The Europeans finally did figure out this century, is better united than divided. How long it took for the Europeans to conclude that kind of reasoning? A lot of centuries of wars.
Yanks and the European Union
Guess what? As long the Russians are being govern by some obsolete leader from the former Soviet Era. THERE WILL BE THAT YANK DEFENDING YOU, Regardless of your nationality or religious fashion.
I hear St. Patrick was an Englishman!"
You can't teach experience
You can't teach experience
So it must be true...:)
You can't teach experience
Chill man!
You want to hear my point of view or just call me names ??
You can't teach experience
You can't teach experience
Typical Brit
Now I'm siding on vegas with the humor. LOL ;-p
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
You can't teach experience
You can't teach experience
This was just waiting to happen....
I guess the war games have started....
The west will try to Isolate Russia through sanctions. Economic Sanctions even though it will not have any effect on Russia is a sort of War. They could even try to push away the Veto power of Russia.
Russia has very few alies on its side....lets see who ...
1. China (Which was tried to split just like USSR with "democracy" and ended in Tinamen square).
2. Iran.
3. Venezuela.
4. India is now tilting towards US.
5. Brazil?
So in case of a war Russia knows it has none to fall back on other than China. Thus it will start to consolidate territories just as Stalin did when Hitler was on the rampage. US cannot do anything as it is knee deep in Iraq, Afghanistan and now at the door of Iran.
If a couple of more key territories goes under the Russian Flag the US will be forced to react.
You can't teach experience
You can't teach experience
You think if we didn't say what we said???
Rusia would stop??? Your naive...
Ok...You guys fix this one...
We just saved a bunch of lives again...
But no....
Were A holes...
Fluck you
You can't teach experience
To people who make wars:
Shut da f*** up!
simple as that.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
I haven't seen such the same attempt of war and politics since Hitler. Nam and Korea ain't the same like this before...
...but so far, at least they managed the truce in just a few 6 days after...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
The Europeans were at war and playing politics long before the USA was a twinkle in the forefathers' eyes..
What would you suggest??
"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
see if the Europeans can stand on their own feet and resolve the issues themselves...
Right. And how will they do it?
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Don't ever talk bad about NATO..They just being around have saved countless lives...Even they don't react like they should...Better than nothing...
NATO is what brought down the wall...
NATO was unbreakable during the cold war...
We will see how it stands now...
Time will tell...
You can't teach experience
You can't teach experience
There is three types of British Citizens.
The Engrish, The Britash, and the British.
I hear St. Patrick was an Englishman!"
The Americans have done all that you say and more.. They have helped shape the world into what is today. American soldiers have given their lives all over the world..
It would be however naive for you to believe that every action the US government takes is for the good of humanity..
My point was that perhaps its time for the Americans to go to the sidelines and see if the Europeans can stand on their own feet and resolve the issues themselves...
We send our kids off to die for other countries...
Dam that so evil...
We feed the poor
Dam that so evil...
We get a idiot for a president...
That is evil..
But we thought we doing the right thing...
Anyway...
You know were good people...
Just nice to have someone to blame for everything I guess
So blame us...One day we go back to Isolation...
And screw ya all...fend for yourself..
You can't teach experience
Britexpat said:
Perhaps the Yanks need to withdraw to North America and leave Europe alone for a while..
Don't forget to close the borders to everyone, total isolation from everyone. Maybe the world will crumble to pieces with the Russian domination.
I hear St. Patrick was an Englishman!"
Agreed.. I think Sarkozy is the new American lap dog.. Germany, UK, France and others have to realise that Russia is in Europe and they need to learn to live together... This does not mean that the Bear should be allowed to maul whomever it feels like..
Perhaps the Yanks need to withdraw to North America and leave Europe alone for a while..
leaders are fighting over powers and territories..
I think I've discovered the secret of life - you just hang around until you get used to it. ~Charles Schulz
When USA say: "BLUE", in Europe United-Kingdom says: "BLUe", Germany: "BLue" and until now France said: "BLUE? I don't know, maybe, maybe Blue-Green or Blue-Red let us see...", Sarkozy wants "BLUE" now.
Me, I would like we try to look for new colors...:)
business...so probably this is the main reason why it's still going on..and on...and on.Couldn't have enough huh?
As we've seen in the past, rhetoric and action are two different things..
The USA "uses" NATO as a mouthpiece when it suits it..In the present situation, the West is pretty much helpless. Many Europeans don't have much sympathy for Georgia's actions, which were rash to say the least. It played into Russian hands.
I doubt whether Turkey would risk a major confrontation. I think the West will play a waiting game and gradually come up with a coordinated plan to tackle Russia, but it will take time and BALLS on the part of the European leaders, especially Germany.
I doubt any European country would want to intervene directly against Russia. Ukraine, depsite Yushchenko being close to Saakashvili, will certainly not intervene, because Russia is a threatening power to Ukraine. I'm not sure what Putin's Belorussian clone is doing in this situation.
The Ukraine won't do anything: any action against Russia will split the country in two.
Essentially the only powers I could see getting involved are Azerbajian, Turkey(if Adjara revolts) and perhaps Armenia.
The US is tied down in Iraq and has diplomatic worries abroad (but the US supports Georgia diplomatically, for sure).
For real I think that no one not directly threatened by a direct involvement in the conflict would move until US say what they do. I would be surprised that US intervene too, but NATO rethoric is the totally opposite of the Russia one. Russia says: "Ossetia is no more part of Georgia" and NATO says: "The sovereignty of Georgia must be respected".
Diplomacy can still rule the conflict but the ways to do so are tiny.
.
Back in my coffin!
.
stupid men!!
lol :-)))
at the end of the day , nothing change ,hey ?
still the same animal preteding to be dressed and polite .
Don't wait for the last judgment it takes place every day.
"Albert Camus "
I think the guys still wanna please women.
and now magic dragon ? for what do we fight ?
Don't wait for the last judgment it takes place every day.
"Albert Camus "
modern wanderer, the first war was between Kain and Abel. God loved the sacrifice of Abel better. From then on wars were for food. Later they began for women.
no magic dragon, that was to answer nica 25 original question "Why people could just live peacefully?"
i taught that qote was a way of answering this
that all sir,
so you are infinite, and I am stupid? mw?
magic dragon, i see you know your eistein classics :-)
what about this one , very famous also
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein
It is a very good question.....but why in the centuries wars have been always present?
"Killing under the cloak of war is nothing but murder". (Albert Einstein)
''He who despairs of the human condition is a coward, but he who has hope for it is a fool.''
Albert Camus