Parents "murdered daughter by prayer''
A sad case of unfetterd belief......
An American couple face 25 years in prison for killing their ill daughter by praying for the 11-year-old girls' recovery instead of calling a doctor.
Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted on Saturday of the second degree murder of his daughter Madeline, who died from undiagnosed diabetes. His wife Leilani had already been convicted of the same charge.
The child was so ill she was unable to walk, talk, eat or drink but instead of taking her to hospital, the Neumanns prayed at Madeline's side as she died on the floor of their rural home in Wisconsin.
The family, who believed in faith healing, called an ambulance only when the ltitle girl stopped breathing.
Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told Marathon County court that he believed God would heal his daughter and he did not expect her to die.
God promises in the Bible to heal, he said.
"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann told the court. "I am not believing what he said he would do."
Doctors testified that Madeline would have had a good chance of survival if she had received medical care, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.
Defence lawyer Jay Kronenwetter told the court that Neumann sincerely believed praying would heal his daughter and he did nothing criminally wrong.
The Sunday Times
Im with BritExpat and his story of the two boats and helicopter.
Assuming you're religious and believer, God is helping you with all the development around you.
Not taking advantage of the "fruits of the life" is a hit in God's face.
War looking for peace,
is like fornication looking for virginity.
eaglemmanuel, I disagree. They are in the USA for cying out loud, they have piles of literature at their feet. How can they possibly claim lack of information?
Yep, obviously need to pay more attention to what im reading
"Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted on Saturday of the second degree murder of his daughter Madeline"... its already in the OP
Interpretation of man, religious beliefs, ethical beliefs....doesn't mean a thing if the person in question is so bloody stupid that he can't make decisions based on whats infront of him. That makes the person a public liability.
Sure, if the child had cancer then of course, those that believe would pray for help. But this was an emergency, clearly.
Like I have said already, the Father and Mother should be charged with the childs death/death through willful neglect. Will be interesting to see the judges ruling and depending on the result, could have ramifications throughout the States.
I remember where I lived there was a couple who were charged with murder because they their daughter died from pneumonia without any medical care. She would have been able to be treated 100% had she been taken to a doctor. The parents believed only in prayer. If I remember correctly, one or more of the church leaders were also charged since they told the parents due to their religious beliefs they could not go to a doctor and it resulted in the daughters death.
I really don't understand how people can be so dumb (the parents).
tra la la
The bubble of delusion also applies to the ones who pride themselves as being rational, intelligent, etc. It all depends on your perspective, where you're standing. Anyone brave enough to see the truth in that statement? :P Lol!
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Don't want no drama,
No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama
britexpat said This is where I have problems with the Church "elders".. Surely they have the power to speak to this couple and explain to them that this is not really what The lord wants.."
Errr.. this is where the problem lies.. again, the interpretation of man. The main stream churches would agree with you.
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Don't want no drama,
No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama
Again, So what if they couldn't afford it? I would rather live with a lifetime of debt than without my child and any normal parent would do the same im sure.
The fact that they didnt even call for help until AFTER she stopped breathing sort of nullifies what you're saying. That obviously wasnt their motivation (money) if they called anyway.
What you're saying 'may' have happened is even worse than what did happen if you ask me.
Having said all that, I sort of understand you're argument for health reform in the States
Typical Brit: I said I did not agree with what the parents did. That child should have gotten the medical care she required. I was commenting on the fact that the government is punishing them for not going to the Dr. but at the same time is not providing health care.
It's more of a reflection to the fact that there is no health care provided yet parents are being held accountable for not going. What if the situation was that they could not afford it, not religious? Would they still be punished?
tra la la
exactly, britexpat: WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!
But who will speak for the innocent child???
ironically, the family will probably stand a good chance of winning the Darwin award
No comment
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
Jasskat - Hate to state the obvious, but the little girl was clearly in trouble. Its not as if she felt a bit sick and needed some asprin is it?
What would you do if your child couldnt walk, eat, drink? Would you think about money or your childs wellbeing?
So if the court said they should have taken her to the Dr., would the court have paid for the Dr?? NO the parents would have had to pay.
In no way do I agree with what the parents did to their poor daughter, but until the state is willing to pay for all medical costs, how can they force the family to take the child to the hospital? It is not cheap either, bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of US dollars if you have to be admitted.
tra la la
Faith without action is dead...
God send many instrument to show how much HE care for us and how much HE loves us. Doctors are one of them. So If we have faith in God, surely we have also faith that doctor will heal us.
The fewer the words, the better the prayer.
This is where I have problems with the Church "elders".. Surely they have the power to speak to this couple and explain to them that this is not really what The lord wants..
People can keep going back to religion and faith and wahtever else
Bottom line is, there must be something wrong with this cretin to allow him to watch his child die
Dress it up however you like, but hes a crackpot
Well that’s new weapon to kill
11 year old girl...
ur feeling ill: u go to a DR!
Well if they cant see it then they are....mad
It's called the bubble of delusion. Everyone looking in on the situation call the parents mad, but they can't see it, even when their inaction might caused injury and death to their child.
Here's a video that explains the bubble of delusion:
How sad, the poor girl.. Can't imagine how she must have felt...
remember the high seated member of hamas who stayed at his house with his wifes and many children, and all died when israel bombed his house?
i had a neighbbour in beirut-lebanon back in the 80s when there was a cvil war. when fighting started, we all flee to the shelters, while he goes wandering in the streets under the bombs and snipers!
'if God wants me to die, i will die even if i was in the shelter!" he used to say!
INDEED with wisdom and guidance from others aid and help unless the parents are doctors themselves...
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mai lain pa!
where whould she get juvenile diabetis (type I) from?
for GOD sake, either her father or her mother's family must be infested by diabetic members!
THEY KNEW! my money on that they r neo nazis, wnat to eliminate sick specimen (as inferior).
if not, DO THEY HAVE ELECTRICITY?
abda06 said "Imbiciles those parents are! Misinterpreting the Bible as usual!"
- Misinterpretation to us, but truth to them. It's a matter of what they are exposed to. To be exposed to the bigger picture and still choose faith, that is the true path. People make decisions based on the information they have.
Britexpat - farmer, flood and chopper story - very apt. ;0)
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Don't want no drama,
No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama
A farmer is in Iowa during a flood. The river is overflowing, with water surrounding the farmer's home up to his front porch. As he is standing there, a boat comes up, the man in the boat says, "Jump in I'll take you to safety."
The farmer crosses his arms and says stubbornly, "Nope, I put my trust in God."
The boat goes away. The water rises to the second floor. Another boat comes up, the man says to the farmer who is now in the second story window, "Jump in, I'll save you."
The farmer again says, "Nope, I put my trust in God."
The boat goes away. Now the water is up to the roof. As The farmer stands on the roof, a helicopter comes over, and drops a ladder. The pilot yells down to the farmer, "I'll save you, climb the ladder."
The farmer yells back, "Nope, I put my trust in God."
The helicopter goes away. The water continues to rise and sweeps the farmer off the roof. He drowns.
The farmer goes to heaven. God sees him and says, "What are you doing here?"
The farmer says, "I put my trust in you and you let me down."
God says, "What do you mean, let you down? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"
Mentally ill...Thats the only thing wrong with this nutter.
on western countries they do belive on prayers??? amazing...
different strokes, for different folks !!! a pity!!!
Together, we can make the world, a better place or worse than ever !!!
religious idiots,,this time in the West.
Neither the Flying Spaghetti Monster, nor the invisible man make house calls!
i agree with labda, misinterpreting the Bible.
if i agree with his believing then:
1) y he is eating himself, God should provide him on his mouth.
2) y he walks around, God should let him reached to anywhere.
etc etc......
he is just trying to escape not to be punished from what he did. may be intentionally.
whatever he said i think his lawyer told him to say like that in the court.
I guess when they go hungry, they pray instead of eat!
Thing is, with freaks like this, it wont change his belief. LUNATIC
Jeese, it's happening there too!
Imbiciles those parents are! Misinterpreting the Bible as usual!
...when will we stop taking religion 'scientifically'. Medicine is different from prayer guys...Wake Up!!
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
Too many wierdos in this world..
Again. Too much religion to little education.