They slave, you complain
By verisimilitude at 2009-12-29
The number of threads about the body odour of Indians on the website is appalling.
Although this points to a possible lack of hygiene among people of certain nationalities in this part of the world, it also warrants serious thought as to why this is so.
The reason is quite simple, when you are living in the most inhuman conditions, hygiene often may not make the cut in terms of the list of priorities.
The most under-paid and menial tasks in this part of the world is almost by default carried out by uneducated labourers from the subcontinent.
These men have to slave for over 12 hours a day and often in the searing heat.
Their living conditions are inhuman. There are MNC companies with employee accommodations packing up to 12 people in a room.. often poorly air conditioned...
Even after 12 hours of strenuous labour, they have to stand in queue for just about anything including access to the kitchen to prepare food, using the toilet and for washing their clothes.
These labor jobs which other nationalities are not willing to take often earns these poor people less than 150$ a month. Unlike several nationalities who tend to spend a large part of their income on themselves, these nationalities tend to be the main bread winner and supporter of a large family back home and they tend to send a significant part of their incomes back home leaving them with next to nothing...
I'd like to see how many of us would fare if we had to work for 12 hours in the sun, then siphoned off like tinned fish in non-airconditioned buses and then cooped up in rooms with poor ventilation and over crowded bathrooms...
Without their efforts, the luxury that the rest of us are used to would be nigh impossible...
As they brave the elements and eke out a living, we all benefit from their exploitation... as we enjoy the fruits of their benefit and revel in our air conditioned abodes, instead of wondering how we can make their lives better... we ridicule them because they don't please our nasal and visual senses... pathetic human nature...
A lot of them do not voluntarily choose to leave home and loved ONES to come & and do underpaid menial jobs here. Poverty sometimes forces a person to make choices that he never would in ordinary circumstances. And when you are faced with a choice of either deal with it or go home to nothing, they make the painful decision of living with the bare minimum.
One of the maintenence workers in my compound has a son studying in an Engineering college. I was shocked to discover this. Here is a father who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice only so that his family, especially his son can have a better life. And my respect for him has only increased.
As for working conditions back in their hometowns, these so called "labourers" can never be treated the way they are here with regards to pay, working hours and days off. The powerful labour unions would kick up a storm.
our house maid is a timid shy lady (who has learnt till tenth) with three pretty grown up kids back home... she dreams of sending her daughter to medical college... her daughter is doing well academically...
verisi wat do u think ?
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"ImPoSsIbLe Is NoT A FaCt,,,,,,It'S An OpInIoN"
Are they Blu Ray?
Dot.com for what ? u wanna call me theri ? :P yes malayalm lnago came from Tamil lango .. if u want i will give u shakkelas malayalam DVD s :)
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"ImPoSsIbLe Is NoT A FaCt,,,,,,It'S An OpInIoN"
i'm watching Tamil movies for learning Malyali, as one of my colleague told me, that both the languages have similarities.
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
hope that we will clean our home from the un invited smelly guests........ :-)
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
something smells funny...
Dot.com... just watching documentary on the mountain ranges in your part of the world... beautiful... unbelievable...
lol Dot nyway verisi hats off :)
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"ImPoSsIbLe Is NoT A FaCt,,,,,,It'S An OpInIoN"
its the skills of versi, who impressed me.
Vacuum = Suck
Lolli Pop = Self defined
:-)
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
vacuum... lollipop... :-/
Dot.com atlast u agreed that u love indians :)))
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"ImPoSsIbLe Is NoT A FaCt,,,,,,It'S An OpInIoN"
this the first thread, which made me in love with indians.
PS: Why don't the ppl feel smell or don't bother for hygiene when it comes for making like vacuum in mouth and eating like lolly pop from head to toe?
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
There are many things to consider y people becomes smelly ... the food they eat, the nature of work, the hygiene, etc.... no matter what it is, let's respect them & treat them nicely .... if u think u can't take the smell then go away without offending them.
i was thinking the same thing and you said it !
@ Mods,apologies...
lolzzzzz veris....yeah it happens when the response suddenly becomes favorable...then you start having doubts :D
----------------------------------------------------------------Give me some SunShine......Give me some Rain
Give me another Chance...I wanna grow up once Again
something does not 'smell' right :-p
Versi....You are Rocking... MAN!!! :-)
----------------------------------------------------------------Give me some SunShine......Give me some Rain
Give me another Chance...I wanna grow up once Again
Hats off to you!
..
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
thanks man...
Goodness...
so what if they stink???
Is it life threatening?
by the way... even the ones with white-collared jobs smells (not only the laborers)but it doesnt matter, i work with them everyday and nothing dramatic happened
...listen to the sound of silence....
with a great respect, salute to you versi...
I did not say what you just claimed I did... and I used caps to emphasize the point I was trying to make, but such subtleties are wasted on you... not interested in carrying this discussion forward with you... you are just trolling and looking for trouble...
versi,
i need to go. i will study english more.
progress
You say initially that people smell because they have limited access to showers.
Then you say that regardless of how much they shower (possibly they shower more than me) they may still smell to my nose because of 'cultural differences'.
I'm obviously missing something.
versi,
the title of your thread says it all.
progress
I for one can't stand the smell of mixed strong perfumes ( Not Deodrants ) that some other nationals use. Are perfumes supposed to be the alternative to a good bath?
in what way does it contradict the original post? pls elaborate?
Doesn't that sentiment rather contradict the original post, which points to a lack of access to sanitation for the mistreated workers?
Is your point now that they will 'smell' to 'my' nose anyway, regardless of their cramped living conditions and limited access to sanitation?
As far as smells are concerned, a very dear friend of mine who happens to be a german stinks like hell in the morning as she is a chain smoker. The mixture of smoke, some deodorant, rushing in the morning hour all contribute to it. One day, as she entered, I greeted her and went close to her because I wanted to inform her something, but reflexly moved backward. I suddenly realised it may embarrass my friend, so I pretended it's just because I wanted to get my pencil.
Later, in the day, she told me that she knows I can't stand smell of smoke, but her car AC wasn't working that day. I told her never mind, I have oversensitive nose and I will buy her a nice present if she restricted herself to smoking 5 cigarettes per day to start with.
She is the most wonderful person I ever worked with.
Are you nuts?......no doubt I am crazy about you!
if that is indeed the point you are making, you need to understand that many people who you believe aren't showering MAY actually be showering more often than you... this so called 'stink' you associate with MAY have more to do with cultural differences...
Your personal hygiene that you pride on MAY not be pleasing from an olfactory perspective to people from another racial or cultural background...
I can see english is not your strength...
where did I say they are enslaved?
I was under the impression the point of your post is that we shouldn't complain about people too poor to shower. And I'm not, and nor does anyone I know. (Mostly they complain about the way that treating humans like animals is totally acceptable in this country, as it would be illegal in the countries we are from.)
I'm complaining about people who aren't too poor to shower, they just seem to have some belief that the use of deodorant is optional in a hot country like Qatar.
That's all I have to say on the matter.
Bye.
no one is at fault there versi. no one. if there is somebody to be blame is ourselves.
do you honestly believe that these labourers that you are talking about are being enslave here?
progress
I do agree that there are people who may be poor in hygiene in general
But there is a generous amount of over-generalization happening here...
When I was in Paris, I found the smell of goat cheese revolting... would I express my displeasure publicly... NO...
I just asked the person who was handing out the tiffins to give us something else instead... I did not feel the urge to verbalize my displeasure... NO
Muslims in general have to stand shoulder to shoulder with strangers when they are in a Mosque... you would think they would be the most vociferous in expressing their displeasure, yet somehow they are aren't...
the kinds that have a problem are those that are in prestigious hotels where one would imagine there are pretty large lobbies...
Anyway Fubar, I know what spurs you on and it has little to do with body odor...
i think the whole topic is about STOP calling other people "smelly" if anyone doesn't then that's great, if someone does, consider not to do anymore, kindly.
i mean come on guys, just put yourself in their shoes for a second!!!!!!!!
Yalla!
how will you laugh to those laborers who worked under the heat of the sun for many hours? it is but normal for them to be smelly. if you laugh at them you, your soul stinks.
but these people in suits and still stinks are really ridiculous.
progress
Like I said, don't digress this topic in to a 'why they smell thread'... If you can't adapt to the way a certain people 'smell', then YOU need to re-caliber your sensitivities... Like I said, there is a distinctive smell that comes off a certain group of people...
Is it pleasing to me... No
Does it bother me... if I dwell on it too much, it would start eating my head but I don't allow it to
Cultural differences are not restricted to just language and dresses... it extends to foods, tastes, smells etc...
My wife told me about how another Doctor in her clinic commented about the smell of the food brought by one of the nurses and how it smelt disgusting... this from a man who smokes like a chimney pot and smells like an ash tray... it reduced the nurse to tears... who is at fault here?
I frequently encounter people who smell totally vile, often enough to make you feel like being sick, but they are guys in shirts and ties in elevators, not laborers in coveralls on building sites.
I've heard lots of people moan about people who stink, but never, ever has it been about the poor laborers. Amongst most people I know, the laborers are viewed with intense pity and compassion. The smelly people who we make jokes about DO have access to running water and toilets (and spray on deodorant). The reason we complain about them is that they still chose to ignore basic hygiene and go to Carrefour stinking.
but respecting human values more than business and monetary concerns. Moral values and respect are the lowest importance.
Personally I faced extremely inhumane consideration by Qatari landlord last night, which I don't want to discuss here. Anyways I am moving to another apartment tomorrow.
Period
versi,
with due respect you are mixing topics/subjects here. hygiene, work condition, living condition, and salary. if we will focus on hygiene, i am agreeing with fubar. i myself experienced entering in a very prestigious hotels and establishments to go out at once because of foul smells coming from other people. they are well dressed and looks educated. hygiene is hygiene, it is not that costly.
as for the living and work condition plus the salary, that is another story.
progress
good point.... they deserve respect, whatever nationality they are. With hardly 500-800 as salary (which some of us blow in an hour without even thinking), they feed their dear ones back home. They cannot even afford to have simple meal on a weekend outside, let alone buy a deodorant.
Luckily the part where you come from fubar, people are respected for whatever work they do. And people are able to afford the basic amenities of life , even if they are in construction or domestic services.
Unfortunately that is not the case here. The way these underprivileged workers or maids are treated over here is the reason why UN states Human Rights Violations exist here.
you probably know this as well as I do... but here it goes...
in the West, the labor class is a lesser percentage of the population than they are in this part of the world
The compensation and the living standards in the West are also higher
This makes employing vast number of laborers uneconomical and companies have to focus on driving up their productivity by using machineries etc. which in turn make their lives easier... the kind of jobs they do are less labor intensive... there are more machines and equipments to make their jobs less physical
A plumber can make up to a 1000$ on a good day, here they are lucky to make 50$
Besides most of these works in the West are carried out by nationals and there are labor unions which too protect the interests of the laborers...
But in this part of the world, companies can get away with hiring people for dirt cheap... they are so cheap that companies would rather throw hands and feet than buy expensive equipments and machinery, its just economics...
As for your white collar men comment... this is not a 'why they smell' thread, if you are interested in the intricacies of body odor, pls feel free to explore the nooks and nuances in one of the other many threads dedicated to the subject.... to me the people from the West smell funny sometimes, but do I let it bother me and discuss that on threads on the forum, I don't...
I really don't understand this line:
"Without their efforts, the luxury that the rest of us are used to would be nigh impossible..."
I come from a country where we don't have inhumane slaves being bussed around, and we still have luxury. In fact the quality of construction of most things (shops, hotels, roads, apartments, villas etc) is better and more 'luxurious'.
Odd, considering that Qatar has so much money and still treats people in this way, whereas other poorer countries can still manage to not treat workers like animals.
As a side note, I've encountered odors in shopping malls in Doha from certain nationalities, and they weren't laborers, they were white collar men and women. To say that the reason they smell is solely due to access to hygiene is not entirely true.
Those that look down on laborers believe me will oneday regret it...life is NEVER a constant...multi-billionaires going bankrupt...anything could happen..
the best way to be thankful about your blessings is to help the disadvantaged
your posts add spice and variety to the thread so its all good :-)
"I'd like to see how many of us would fare if we had to work for 12 hours in the sun, ..."
good response to those allergic of body odour of the underprevileged..
hmm...fair argument Versi...and sorry for not getting your point earlier...
I agree with you... that would help the cause
But the purpose of this thread is different, it is to soften people up... so that the next time an underprivileged person crosses someone's path, instead of scowling at their body odor, we offer a smile...
I for one encourage my three year old son to talk with the underprivileged when he happens to come by them because I want him to treat them as his equals... I ask him to respect our maid the same way he respect any other elders in our family. But in addition to teaching him values, it also gives solace to those hard working individuals
By just exchanging few niceties and asking names they lit up instantly and you can see life in their otherwise drab faces, and in some of their eyes I can see longing for their own children far far away who are growing up without their loved one's nearby...
The purpose of this thread is to show the shallowness of threads that ridicule a certain category of people for their body odor
You on the other hand are hell bent on exploring the subtleties of body odor which is defeating the very purpose of this thread
If you really want to explore and research the wondrous complexities of body odor.. you are welcome to discuss it in one of THOSE threads...
Please don't downgrade THIS discussion to a 'Why they stink' thread...
we could NOT expect a better working and living conditions....wages payment in time and human consideration?
We need to be better 'Human'; doesn't matter carrying any nationality.
Peace
thats the point SUN...in fact you are the only one who understands my argument...all I wanted is a CASE with EVIDENCE not a CASE with OPINION...opinions must be kept as opinions.
ahh SUN dont worry there are lots of Qataris who are fed up with their situation...it is just a mater of generation change and we will get rid of the old dinasors...just hold on...dont die yet
It's just that you are very open minded and I think your approach to a problem is systematic and logical rather than based on prejudices. If you are Qatari, then tell me where to find more like yourselves.......lol?
Are you nuts?......no doubt I am crazy about you!
and to all of those that took the argument emotionally:
all laborers wether Russians Indian Polish or even Marchians they will sure stink if they work in this horrible weather... OKKKK???
those that take arguments emotionally should not argue
wow thanks SUN but you doubt I am a QATARI? hmmm..
anyways my posts are all about making the case solid or stating your opinion...a lot of the guys up there could not make their argument and they mix emotions with objective arguments...which is wrong.
in anycase I am thinking why you doubt I am a qatari? is it because Qataris believe in slavery? lol or are we really that bad that you can not have a civilized argument with us?
their ability to smile in spite of the adversity they are in. Their ability to derive pleasure through each other's company on those small patches of green around the city...
While the rest of us drive cars that cost hundred thousands to places that cost millions and spend thousands to make ourselves feel good... they sit cross legged and crack jokes like they have no bother in the world looking every bit as happy as we do...
One special comment for Stallion, he is a nice guy and very much doubt if he is Qatari.
Are you nuts?......no doubt I am crazy about you!
I salute all the labour class of this world and their contribution to our comfortable life. Give them appropriate compensation and then you complaint.Probably it's the money of their sweat which you use to buy your perfumes.
There is nothing like labour class or affluent class. There are only two classes those who work hard and those who are parasites (really doesn't matter if they smell good, they are still bastards)
Are you nuts?......no doubt I am crazy about you!
Do you think they doesnt know this Stallion? Tell me who doesnt know this.everybody knows, including the authorities and human rights too. Nothing will be done.
I wish I could do something.
submit own wishes and will to the MASTER's commandments.
It is HIS will and wishes how HE liked me to live, work, and decide my standard of living such as wages, salary, housing, medical, other allowances, working hours and bonus rewards......Am I expecting too much or these are basic needs?
Again Stallion... you are taking the discussion in a futile direction...
To those that have taken objection to my usage 'They slave'... please note that I have used the word 'slave' as a VERB... not as a NOUN... the word 'slave' when used as a verb means 'to work very hard'...
So please... enough with the semantics...
Happy to hear that there are still person like you who care and understand the situation of others...i too can observed that but i cant do nothing with it except to comfort them that they are not different with others..
that we are same in society..try to help them even in a very simple way....excellent post ....
"ALWAYS stretch ur HEART & Expand your LOVE so that it TOUCHES not only those whom you GIVE it to, but also those who NEED it so MUCH"
veris, you did a good job above, yet i believe you really shouldn't bother to justify something to sick minded racist minded snobby people who inquire about other's smell. IMHO.
Yalla!
As I said earlier I wish I could change it myself but all I can say is this: there is the human rights center in Qatar which takes care of complaints of that sort.
My suggestion if you want to do something for them why dont you file the complaint yourself on behalf of those laborers? believe me I am not being sarcastic. it is the best thing that you can do to those poor laborers. just make sure you have EVIDENC, COMPANY NAMES and WITNESSES.
good luck : )
They are forced to work 10 and 12 hours where the authorities allow only 8 hours. It is slavery and nothing else.
when the authorities ban working in the sun between 11 and 3 during summer, some employers force them to work, which is slavery.
I totally admire those laborers. you have no idea how much I respect them and especially the indian ones...even us Qataris between ourselves when we talk about the work-force we have we all agree that the best work-force all around the globe are the indians...polite, problem-less, honest and smart...
now I argued with you and the rest of the members just on the stinky and slavery part...SLAVERY you are 1000% right and I am totally against it...just because someone accepts your terrible working conditions does not make it OK to enslave...we all know that those poor laborers accept the conditions because of poverty and we better not take advantage of it.
Wow what a response to Stinky Indians and great sarcasm!
The labor situation in the Gulf is more or less same, however I personally feels Qatar is somehow better than Dubai. Recently after labor rebels in UAE..the wages structure and the living conditions improved in Dubai (unfortunately, those involved in active revolt were deported without Notice).
Very well said Edifis and Arien....I concur they are morons. Even I am slave but 1000 times better condition and in great working environment.
The stinky odour of sweat of hardworking serving humans smells and NOT who enjoys white collar jobs sitting in AC cars and cabins deciding those poor's fate (Master & slave relationship)!
You decide who needs better or at least EQUAL Treatment and Rewards?
Lets talk about Management rules of Quality, Standards, Harmonisation, Ethics, Team work and Unbiased Treatment......Is that really happening in this part of the World?
Versi:
I did not ask the question the way you frased it. all I said was based on your original article:
"when you are living in the most inhuman conditions, hygiene often may not make the cut in terms of the list of priorities."
Now remember I did not say they stink. but I am only using your own words and logic: so if they stink because of the work conditions here this means back home they smell nice? it is a simple question please answer.
Moral of my posts is when we make an argument strengthen it with evidence not just opinion.
I agree with Stallion! I disagree with the word slavery. Because of meager income back home those people choose to come here and work even under poor working & living condition. They weren't force to work here without pay. Why brand it as slavery? With the word stinky, it will depend on individual culture on hygienic practices or on the food that they eat. Other nationalities should understand this instead of making fun of them.
Happy new year to all!
Your question... "Did they smell before they came here?" is totally irrelevant...
they were in unfortunate circumstances, why else would they subject themselves to this misery over here?
Ok Arien I did not even argue about the weather or work conditions. I am only talking about the STINK and SLAVERY part.
well we always tend to project our problems to others without even thinking that it could be us. we are the main source of the problem.
Nice photo .. amazing topic .. very well said ..
I really feel bad for the Laborers .... they are the least paid and their living conditions are quite bad...
I really wish, could do something for them....or atleast (as said by verisimilitude.......we can stop the ridicule on them)...
In terms of weather and living conditions they are not better of here stallion. They dont have to work more than 8 hours backhome and the temperature and humidity is bearable through out the year.
Most of them are from the rural areas where they dont have permanent job and pay. They might get to work for only 10 or 15 days a month on daily wages, which is the reason why they are here.
If you work for just half hour in the terrible weather then sure your body will stink.
my question to you is: are those laborers better of in their home countries? so they smell nice and when we "enslave" them they become stinky?
sometimes I dont understand how people make their cases. labor rights here are non-existent I 1000% agree with you but the stink and slavery thing sorry. weak argument.
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tEaCh Me RulEs I'lL tEaCh YoU hOw To BrEaK iT -rMs!
Nicely written Verisi. and very well said.
Those who complain are morons who has no clue whats happening around them.Who never gets in to others shoe but think with their bums. Salute those hardworking souls and hope and pray the authorities wakes up and fix a minimum wages to them.
I salute them, because without them luxury here will not be experienced. They are the roots of or lifestyle here.
That was one pathetic thread, including a lot of the finger pointing "this nation stinks" "No, that nation stinks", and then the notion that some people are just born 'smelly'.
Shows how educated and mature a lot of the idiots that contributed to that thread are.
Vulgarity is the conduct of other people, just as falsehoods are the truths of other people.
Yes, those amongst us who fall in the priviliged class and still smell are the real smelly people.
http://www.qatarliving.com/node/763668
Hmm did a quick search, didn't check out all the results. Just read the first one..
Just my personal opinion but threads like this one should not be allowed on public forums.
http://www.qatarliving.com/answers/living-in-qatar/do-indians-live-in-filth
These forums are supposed to be for discussion I think, not for abusing other nationalities. Maybe I was given a wrong idea about this forum.
Anyway I am off to bed now. Good Night.
**** Aal Izz Well****
you've been here just over a day... so let me tell you... just moments back there was a jerk who had posted the same topic four times!... 'Why do they stink'
Is it really the case here? I mean the people complaining about smell, I have an idea about the labourers plight.
**** Aal Izz Well****
please post a link to this one... hopefully at least a few would get enlightended...