We are the lucky ones- Richard Dawkins.

Well I guess the jailing of apostates in many Islamic countries and even the beheading of many in Somalia, Afghanistan and hell knows where, are just fake conspiracy theories that the American CIA implemented in the teenager's music so they can take over the Middle east.

Uhmmm Who knew.

It's part of the human condition, which is fine. People have their opinions and rarely change them

Wonder why? All I know is posts in the religious forums are more often than not ignored by most hence not much chance of a debate and healthy exchange of ideas.

Fatima, I went to the religious section once and came out a Jew. Only joking, I came out as a member of a cargo cult.

But hey anyone here is free to PM me anytime and I'll gladly give them the evidences. Or there is always the religious forum that sadly is a much underused section here. Wish it was made more popular and used more!

I have in the past included the evidences, namely the Hadith about the men who apostated and killed the camel herder(and were put to death ) and the one about the Christian man who became a Muslim then apostated and went back to his former religion claiming it was he who taught Muhammed what to say(he was not put to death nor imprisoned and died among his people of natural causes) . However I will not do so now only cos the MODs have in recent times deleted my posts whenever I include hadiths directly from the source.

Another point worth noting is different Muslim rulers, throughout the years, handle the cases of apostates differently. Again depending on the circumstances surrounding each case.

I feel thankful about Ex-Muslims and anti Muslims,even from within my family,for is that they give us a chance to discuss and put straight the misconceptions about the faith. They should therefore never be disallowed to speak out, and yes I feel my faith and knowledge is strong enough to withstand their allegations!

Regarding apostasy, as it has been discussed time and again in QL, the death sentence is NOT prescribed for all apostates. Verses of the Quran cannot merely be applied as it is without knowledge of why and to who were they revealed about. The apostates mentioned in the Quran, who were put to death, were not merely those who left Islam. They were a people who pretended to convert, only to then betray the Muslims, steal their properties and kill them. It was to them that the verses of apostasy was revealed.

On the other hand there were others who left Islam, who the Prophet never killed.And the evidence to all of this can be found in the authentic Prophetic narrations, aka hadiths, which the Muslim must also follow along with the Quran, and it is these narrations that are also used to explain the Quran. And these show that it's not all apostates who are to be put to death, and that it's not merely giving up your Islamic faith that earns you a death penalty.

Of course people today misinterpret these verses, and use them to prove Islam to be a malevolent religion. And the misguided Muslims, committing evil and extreme acts, only strengthen these ideologies. Therefore it's important for the moderate Muslims upon the Sunnah to discuss these issues with others, out in the open, and not out law them!

Do you have any references?

Just for your information In the Holy Quran we are asked to tet people know about God,

You can refer to the versus 125 in the below link if you want

http://www.surah.my/16?l=en

From the sayings of our prophet PBUH you can refer to this link

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php%3Fbk_no%3D52%26ID%3D2078%26idfrom%3D6279%26idto%3D6300%26bookid%3D52%26startno%3D8&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D8%25A8%25D9%2584%25D8%25BA%25D9%2588%25D8%25A7%2B%25D8%25B9%25D9%2586%25D9%258A%2B%25D9%2588%25D9%2584%25D9%2588%2B%25D8%25A7%25D9%258A%25D8%25A9%2B%25D8%25B5%25D8%25AD%25D9%258A%25D8%25AD%2B%25D8%25A7%25D9%2584%25D8%25A8%25D8%25AE%25D8%25A7%25D8%25B1%25D9%258A%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D768%26bih%3D928&sa=X&ei=qivdUMyWMIrBtAb6g4CoCw&ved=0CDgQ7gEwAQ

The first rule of Islam, is don't talk about Islam. The second rule is don't talk about Islam of you,left it

The first rule of Islam, is don't talk about Islam. The second rule is don't talk about Islam of you,left it

The first rule of Islam, is don't talk about Islam. The second rule is don't talk about Islam of you,left it

And the treason analogy is disingenuous ......... treason requires you to do something, not just express an opinion or idea. The free exchange of ideas is central to progress, hence why so many Islamic states remain static and have done so since the Golden Era, after which such freedom of ideas were practically outlawed

If one leaves Islam one should just shut up about the reasons for leaving? The only ones that can talk about Islam are Muslims and not ex-Muslims?

That's what Stalinists and Nazis proposed. You have not even got the strength to defend Islam from mere words......then your seen is weak.

If the Muslim changes to Christianity or ethiesm or what ever and start attacking Islam and spoiling Muslims then the first thing is to sit with him/her and if he/she still not changed and keep attacking Islam and spoiling Muslims then I would go with opinion which say that punishment is death.

Death is more merciful then sending him/her for life in prison, imagine he/she is 25 years old and the time he/she spend in prison is between 40 and 50 years (not a short period).

Also if this person who is sent to life in prison might be freed after 20 years and there might be a possibility that he/she will attack Islam again and spoiling people, so why to keep a probability for spoiling people?

Please note that Islam can not be compared to great Treason ( conspiracy)

Why in some countries in the west and USA perform great Treason is sent to court and then the court send him/her death is this fair?

Annoying truths..

http://freedomofapostasy.wordpress.com/crimes-against-humanity/

Is not a God or a prophet therefore he can make mistakes, see Blosted this is your weakness: you only listen to the opinion which supports your argument, and this makes you unfair person because you listen only to one side

Wrong, your comment was an assumption.

You assumed that I said the penalty for apostasy is death because I stopped being religious.

But no ,it's the more official ruling in a lot of the Islamic countries.

FYI- The video is by Dr.Zakir Naik, known as a very famous scholar and preacher in Islam.

Still, it doesn't say "Don't kill the apostates!"

And the penalty of apostasy is not in the Quran.

And we all know when there are no hadiths or quran verses to back things up , we go to the Muslim elite scientists, and they give a verdict which to be taken as a rule to follow.

Now most Islamic scholars agree that the Penalty for apostasy is death if he/she were in a Islamic country.

Enjoy ,from your friend Zakir Naik.

@tahsinmim before you throw assumptions in the air, I don't think anyone till never ever understood SA's arguments as he/she cannot even stick to one point at every post, therefor I really can't grasp what his questions are all about.

And second you only seem to reply to either troll or just waste time.

Again, you assumed I compared a personal situation ,wrong, I don't know where you were raised but if you deny that the penalty for apostasy is death.

Then I must say you weren't raised on the very rules of Islam.

@SA sorry but it seems your information are utter garbage, the Islamic rules taught at schools and to children is that apostasy is rewarded by death.

That is the official teaching of all Schools that got Islamic lessons PERIOD.

web site

http://aljame3.net/ib/index.php?showtopic=2260

The bottom line is that there are two types of people who change their mind (Religion)

The first type is a Muslijm who just change and go and live in peace without attacking and insulting Islam.

The second type is a Muslijm who changes his/her religion and start attacking and denieing Islam and want to fight Islam.

The first type shall not be killed.

The second type shall be caught and given a 3 days or some time with some punishment and if he/she insist and did not change their mind then they shall be killed.

My answers were from the link and I may not have translated properly.

Here is an english website link which can explain better I guess:

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9801&CATE=1427

Do you mean religion?

"If yes please say why?" WHY

"If no please say why?" WHY

Should the judge be fair or no?

If yes please say why?

If no please say why?

I'm sorry but judging somebody using your own religious dogmas is not fair !

Should the judge listen to the explaination of the evidences and witnesses and understand the case or just say send him/her to Life in prison?

In short should the judge be fair or no?

@SA there is no need for a tafsir, getting killed for leaving a cult or a club as Captain Hajji said is barbaric.

Tafrsir or not!

some clubs give you a lifetime membership ("till death do us apart" promotion) :

Italian Mafia

Skulls & Bones

and I also tell you to read the tafsir and I already put the link.

In a court should the judge be fair or no, i.e. applying justice yes or no?

We know the penatly for apostasy is death, they know that is unreasonable so they don't want to say it. I wouldn't want to join a club whose membership I couldn't rescind.

I put the Quran tafsir (explaination) link for you and others who really want to understand

http://www.altafsir.com/tafasir.asp?tmadhno=0&ttafsirno=0&tsorano=1&tayahno=1&tdisplay=no&languageid=2

Because you know it is not fair to judge without clear evidence and understanding.

Some times the outside appearance is misleading.

SA, lots of stuff on Islam but as you know there are many passages in the Koran than advocate killing those who leave the faith. Islam is not alone in this. If your club is so good and so worthy why do you need the threat of death to keep people in it?

http://www.islamhouse.com/s/9661

It is the US English link

Off the subject but I am tempted to write this reading the posts..

If we track the modes of propagation of religions in the past, we will realise they have been mostly through kings and soldiers and very few by saints or messengers.

People have adopted beliefs either due to fear or want of a comfortable life but rarely through conviction.

Beliefs have always been forced!

Apostasy is the death penalty in Islam so kids raised as Muslims have the choice of being faithful or dead. That is forcing religion on people

Ahmad Deedat

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHW6gCzpd1k

Also one of Ahmad Deedat replies is here

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/newsletters/issue_12/ahmeddeedat.aspx

"We can't force beliefs"

I'm sorry, are you excluding Somalia? Pakistan? And many more?

Or let me rephrase it, do you believe in creationism or evoloution?

some support the theory, and some don't. That's normal, and each are entitled to their own beliefs.

Some believe in the teachings of the Holy books of God, and some choose to ignore them, claim that they are man-made, and that there is no God.

We can't force beliefs on people. You can keep showing evidence to people, or behave in a fair & decent manner to reflect your background/culture/religion, and let people be interested in discovering what you represent, and maybe follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

what do you think of it?

@Hajji Radhi he was generalizing.

@QDCLover yeah ,absolutely , no doubt and especially the way he tries to explain evolutionary biology to the simple minds like us, is truly plausible.

Not to forget (my own opinion) he is way more poetic and literate than Shakespeare .

He is one of the most foremost scientists of our generation. His work on evolutionary biology is truly breathtaking

Absolutely beautiful

Thanx for sharing, blosted

I have one comment though:

He said: "a planet that is not cold and not hot..."

Maybe Richard didn't visit Qatar in August?

our genes are passed on in every generation. we are vessels of our own genes. so enjoy and make the best throughout the journey! indeed, we are lucky.

@drsam good to know you are at least sticking to thee subject !

It's gettimg even more interesting with the new exploits in biology,we'd soon may even be able to altern the characteristics of a to-be-born child.

intersting video of the duplication of DNA by the ribosomes (0:30-0:40) and pillars of creation (1:50-1:60)

If only you'd met my cuban Shotputter :O)