Searching For Answers!!

"I love the "local" justification on this thread: someone in some other country did it, so no one has the right to criticize."

I agree with you we get a bit defensive sometimes. But wouldn't you agree with me that companrisons normally is part of the solutions ? that we need to compare in order

to understand the size of the problem ?

When you think that we don't consider this kind of behaviur as a shame .. wouldn't you disagree with your self that in GCC this kind of act is considered a big shame and as I mentioned above it is worng and our religion reject it. (as mentioned by spybot that he knows what our religion alllow and doesn't allow).

thx

Yeah. That's it. If someone doesn't like your post, it must mean they don't like your entire nationality or race. Or they're jealous. It couldn't possibly be that something is wrong with your post. You really make me laugh with your thought process.

And, once again, I like Qatar and most Qataris I've met. The leadership has done a number of things very well and has a better chance of breaking the oil curse. I just don't suffer wannabe fools and trolls.

SC: 5la ywalii!

@MN

I'm on no one's throat...I could care less what a chauvinist bigot thinks of me...I'm living it well and I'm loving it...I got no complaints and I got no where else on earth I'd rather be...can't help it that I'm a local, can't help it that I love everything about Qatar and I can't help it that he hates me for it...it just eats him out for some reason.

I don't hate him MN. Hate requires respect. I just think he's really funny.

Have a great day.

I can’t believe you are still at each other’s throats!

and over what?

You tow stop it right now!

SC: 5las 3ad!! knock it off! 'n u too Bachus /-:

u guys Need to be friend'z ! Life is too short to spend on hate!

You'd definitely be better at moronic.

Ur right...I should change it from ironic to MORONIC!!!

Nope. You're still not using it effectively. Let me know when you do.

Think for a minute....u'll get it

The greater irony is your inability to effectively use irony.

^^^^

the irony is that this is coming from a South African!!! like a vegetarian butcher hehehehe

I love the "local" justification on this thread: someone in some other country did it, so no one has the right to criticize. Where's the shame?

If you're going to use mimicry of another country as an excuse, why not use it as an excuse for something good, like human rights for immigrant labor?

Khalid...r u serious...u must b joking????we sure do know wht the religion allows and don't allow, I feel tht is a cheap shot as it is not followed to the T

UKENgineer .. 2 mins of fun ??? hehe how old r u ?

MarcoNando - you always bring up weird threads, that has nothing to do with reality.

If there are handful of GCC men went to the west and they left their kids their.. that is wrong.

But the fact of the matter, that those are really small fractions of the number of western men who go to Thiland or east Europe and leave their children there, or in their own countries.

Perhaps nothing close to African Men who go to Europe and US and leave their kids, but you never know one of those kids could become the president of the United States !

I think it is wrong, our religion prohibt us from sexual relationship outside marraige and in the same time, if that happens, our religion encourage the man to marry the woman, so the kid does not live in harsh upbringning.

Super Cool...thx for tht and yes u may as well b very rite, we don't hear abt these things taking place and they say u neva to old to learn....maybe 1 day if one of those very woman and children do come 4ward or shall I say will b brave enuf 2 come 4ward and put those very dead beat dads as u so call them to shame....and we will c if there is value in wht u r actually saying...

But 4 now I have to accept ur word...ciao

@Spybot

That's absolutely wrong...As an Arabic speaker I've come across governmental entities whether in Qatar or elsewhere who's sole job is to follow up with these cases, and subject the guilty party to the full extent of the law...MY SISTER WORKS THERE!!! It just so happens that deadbeat dad r not gonna be expats, cuz those ones wouldn't bring their kids here in the first place....so most of the interactions happen in Arabic...u guys just don’t hear about it.

But at the end of the day ppl question the fallibility of the law...a drug dealer might be sentenced to a fine, a life in prison or the death penalty depending on where he lives...does it mean that there is no law in country that deal with it differently?? No it just means that the law is not fallible to u that's all

that is why Durex is doing a great job....(all around the world)

Yep.. There are deadbeat fathers everywhere.

Super cool, yes u r rite however, in other parts of the world there r laws tht protect and clamp down on the evil 1's, however in places like in question there r no laws tht can really prosecute the evil 1's...

Quick question and I HOPE TO GOD I GET AN HONEST ANSWER FOR IT!!!!

R there deadbeat father "who abandon their kids" in every country on earth or not???? If the answer is yes shouldn't we solve THAT issue to put an end to this or is the GCC case that more important in an otherwise universal problem???

By the way....there r deadbeat mothers as well...dont u forget that

isn't the money the necessary to buy life needs from clothes to food, and fuel to your car and salary some one give to his/her employees?

The wrong use of something or bad users should be blamed, and here is an example if a car company made 10 cars without defects and 10 people tried the cars each of then took a car and three drivers had accident because of the bad driving and not applying the safety on the roads then who should blamed?

U guys it is all abt cash...I have a friend in Indonesia tht got married to a Canadian guy and just because he pays her bills and yes she got knocked up and he left her high and dry ...child and bills...so ultimately she did do it for the money and for no other reason...and it was by contract...

SO LETS BLAME THE MONEY OR THE LACK THERE OF

A Paternity test or the father's name on the birth certificate is usually all the proof they need in the West Straight Arrow.

IS THE SOLUTION

if it is documented other wise it is useless, for correct decisions there must be evidences and proofs.

How can you blame some one if you do not have proofs which proves what you say?

You know we're talking about unmarried couples having a child Straight Arrow, Not married couples...

the woman must have been intelegent and maintained a copy of the marriage contract and the husband passport or ID copy and her bank statements so the court will help her.

That is why it is important to make the marriage contract or letter of agreement where both ID's of wife and husband are there and there signautres.

Contract is one of the evidences and as you know the evidence can varry in criticallity and if the critical evidence is not found then the case will be dismissed or not proven.

Miss Mimi I mean for point number 5 the consequences which result from a wrong choice.

Evey thing has a consequence:

Good company = good salary for example

Good wife = happy husband

I am assuming the ideal situations, in many ocasions the right choice makes any one us satisfied, being satisfied the consequences

in short words:

consequences lead to the final result which is satisfaction.

UK, as I said above, either the father can never enter the child's country again, because a warrant will have been issued for his arrest, he can be extradited if the country he is in agrees. Or, depending on the countries involved, the woman can file the court case in his home country. Obviously this wouldn't apply in the GCC for various reasons.

1. Are there are courts which protect women rights?

2. Can the western woman (student) say no to that GCC man (student)?

3. If this GCC man(student) try it by force will this considered as rape?

4. Does she have the right to report this rape to courts?

5. Can some western women (student) study the consequences?

Yes to the first 4, not sure what you mean by the fifth. Consequences of what?

SA again the question here is how in the legal framework of the countries involved we can get the absent parent to pay his dues in upbringing of the child.

Don't disagree with what you say above, but that is not the question being asked by the OP.

Hello,

I hope someone from Europe can help me with the meaning of this sign written after a name or title: -?-!!!

Thanks.

cdua

whether here or there it does not make difference what is wrong is wrong unless people are careless do you agree?

Ok in the west let us ask these questions and see any western answer to these questions:

1. Are there are courts which protect women rights?

2. Can the western woman (student) say no to that GCC man (student)?

3. If this GCC man(student) try it by force will this considered as rape?

4. Does she have the right to report this rape to courts?

5. Can some western women (student) study the consequences?

SA we are talking about GCC men studying in West not in the GCC.

We know what you are saying already, Thanks anyway.

it is compulsory to give enough money to the wife and take care of your family up to the highest extent.\The above is just for information.

here in GCC there are courts and I believe also in the country where the woman is from and the courts will give each one his/her rights.

The second part I will asnswer from a believer point of view:

If the court can not do any thing then I will the man if he is a Muslim you win today but believe there is a day of judgement and every thing you do in this life is recorded, I will tell the woman the same and your rights will not disappear and your rights will come sooner or later, if not in this life then in the day of judgement.

Now back to the topic, how important it is to study the consequences of such relationships?

1. Vey important

2. Normal

3. Not important at all

tahsinmim, even if the man was married and still left the kids what is the difference? The issue here is the absent fathers not coughing up the funds to support the children they father!

Miss Mimi CSA can only track the funds needed to support the mothers, but fail in making it compulsory for the absent parent to see their children.

There is organisation in the UK which goes by the name of Father for Justice, which actually promote this cause, that the Government is only after the money of the fathers and it does not give rights to absent fathers to see their kids.

No system is perfect. But at least there's a system Brit. CSA also ensures that father's have access to their children.

according to me but I would put the woman first do you know why?

Because she can rfuse to make a relationship with that GCC man, and if he try it by force it will be a rape.

That is why it is important to think 1000 time before going for any relationship.

Eveything in this world has a cause and effect.

Both of the man and the woman did not study the consquences and the bad consequences are in many times the result of bad choice and when it comes to the relationship the choice is yes or no.

I still think that the woman is to blamed in the first place because she is the one who accept.

If the man try it by force it will be rape.

Another reason why to blame it on the women which MN-01 refers to first is because they did not study the consequences.

If you do not know how to swim and you through your self who will you blame.

The man who shows the meaning of what does the word man will carry the responsibility and solve the problem in its early stages and will study the consequences before and after having the problem and how to overcome the problem.

The honest man will never ever look at women as toys just pick one and if you do not like throw it.

Man should study the consequences as well as the woman (either they are student or not)

I agree with you. there are many cases of misuse.

Only last week, a man found out that he had been paying maintenance on two children he hadn't fathered.

UK...thanks for the clarification. I then withdraw the relevant portions of my last post.

No Straight Arrow. They are entirely different situations. If a woman gets pregnant and the guy abandons her in the West she can keep the baby, give it up for adoption or have an abortion.

If she chooses to keep it, but can't support herself financially, she can apply for support from the government.

If she can support herself financially, great.

The child is not consider to be illegal, she is not damaged goods. Neither of them are criminals.

If she gets pregnant here, she's thrown in jail and deported. Regardless of whether she could have raised the child on her own.

Happygolucky, i agree again!

The governments "mollycuddle" people so they can do what ever they wish without taking respsonsibility, and without thinking BEFORE they do certain things....

People need to wake up and take responsibility for their own actions, not waiting for somebody else to solve the mess they themselves created.

If I make a child i have to be 100% sure I can take care of things, no matter what.

SA what if they do get married then the Fathers leave? Still no way of getting the money from a foreign father?

HGL it can happen the other way too, if the custody is given to the Father then the mother has to pay , as long as she is working, if a man is not working then he has does not need to pay anything. But most of the time the mother gets the custody.

The money for the maintenance can either be mutually agreed by the parents or the CSA deduct from your salary.

1. This GCC man or Arabic is throwing his belief and culture away.

2. This GCC man or Arabic is playing with women from other countries.

3. These foreign mothers who you refer to MN-01 are letting them selves become to cheap.

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/9193776#comment-2741671#ixzz2IVg4wDIA

Miss Mimi I think countries need to sign up to agreements that if a student or someone visiting another country fathers a child then he should be tracked and be made to pay for the childs upbringing.

brit....if "the UK government set up the Child Support Agency (CSA) for tracking down fathers and forcing them to pay child maintenance" just stops there then I guess it is outright unfair. Foul play by woman cannot be ruled out and we all know that it does happen. Arent both partners equally responsible for their actions? Why the onus of paying up for the maintenance of child is thrown back at the man? Doesn't it contradict the present day lifestyle of live in relationships where one is free to walk out of the relationship at any time? Why this outcry and the involvement of the govt.? Looks like the idea of marriage certificate just a piece of paper isn't all that good.

I'm with happygolucky on this.

countries and the right is right where ever you go and the wrong is wrong where ever you go unless in some countries the rules are different and if I want to be funny then I would say that in some countries 1+1 =2 but may in some countries 1+1 = 4 and this is correct if in the other country considered the one as two.

No laws = No rights = No protections = chaose in communities

Do you want chaos in your community?

If you like your community you will say no, if you are careless you will say yes and I care only about my self, then I will say how selfish you are!!

Sorry if this reply was offensive

I know what the subject is about, but I don't understand what you're talking about.

They are adults. They engaged in a sexual relationship. Whether purposely or accidentally a child resulted from that relationship. They both made decisions regarding that child and both have to live with those decisions.

Luckily the women live in countries where there is support for single parents, so the father is not really needed.

Excuse me?

HGL its two minutes of fun worth a life of responsibilities :(

Blamed for what? They're adults. They have a child. They each make decisions. Sure the guys a bit of an ass to leave his kid, but the woman didn't have to choose to keep the child either.

Personally, if it were me, I'd rather the guy went home. Custody situations are a pain in the butt.

UK...blame it on their Ferrari's or the likes...:) The temptation or the desire to get lucky must be really impossible to overlook.

Ultimately it's the woman's choice to keep the child or not. If she chooses to keep the child after the guys run off, than I hope she has the means to do so. If she doesn't, well that's her choice.

Its not funny Tahsinmim I'm being serious. They should think twice of getting involved with Students from abroad who will one day just go back to their countries and abandon their kids!

I think the women in the West should only get knocked up by western men, else they will end up putting the burden themselves!

This isn't about Women coming to GCC countries Straight Arrow, it's about men going to Western countries and knocking up women they aren't married to.

The country of the woman should be blamed if no warning was told to their citizens of the rules of the country they are going to, also if it was not said the woman must be intellegent and read about the rules in the GCC country she is going to, if she can not read English for example she can ask her friends.

To whom does a woman with a child like that turn for help when she had a baby with an Arab/GGC student and the father decides to ditch his responsibility?

To her embassy and make DNA test and solve the issue some how if possibl but if nothing happen it will still be her mistake because she allowed her self to be sold for that guy as a gift and the owner of the gift might either damage the gift but still keep it or damage and thow it away, that is why marriage is important and should be documented.

A wise woman will allow her children to grow in a healthy environment.

But now wait if she married and her husband turned bad and can not be good then what is the solution if she is in a culture where there is no divorce?

The person who hammer him/her self by a hammer should not blame others for this, especially if he/she took the hammer freely with out any force?

Some will say but hammer is no good I will say wait hammer is used to put nails in the wall where you can put your nice pictures, and is used for many other good purposes, but it also can be used for bad purposes, so the conclusion is that the hammer can be good or bad depending on the way you use it.

Thus if we make analogy we will find that marriage is like hammer, the hammer can tide two pieces of wood togather and the marriage tides two people togather.

Why are the children punished in the denial of a proper social status medical care and financial support?

Because the rules are not there for such cases in some GCC countries if not all.

You take care of your children first then others children is next.

To protect these childrens the father and the mother must be punnished.

Their govt’s are very conservative prohibiting having a relationship /marrying a foreign woman, but has no policy on protecting the rights of their own children conceived from western moms?

Marrying a foreign woman is not an issue here in Qatar and most GCC countries, making a relation has nothing to do with the rules of the country if it was done secretly but at the end these illegal relation will not last and will be discovered if it was not treated as early as possible.

But the biggest thing that throws me off is not the govt but that the so called (Fathers) of these children are somehow able to leave these children just like that….and they will probably never see them again… So sad!

Yes it is sad for me too because of:

1. This GCC man or Arabic is throwing his belief and culture away.

2. This GCC man or Arabic is playing with women from other countries.

3. These foreign mothers who you refer to MN-01 are letting them selves become to cheap.

The only answer for your question is marriage and only marriage unless the waman or the man do not want thei children who is their original father and mother.

I will repeat this againg if some one throws him/her self in the sea and sink who should be blamed?

The sea, but wait the sea is there for the benifit of humanity where people get fish from it and some countries use the sea water to make it drinking water by removing the salt.

No it is not new been happening over the yrs and these woman don't learn....no matter wht u call it...dollar...pound...pessos...lira...euro....It is the greed for this and the children suffer and the woman after wanna shout for support

Is this something new? Women who chose to have a kid with a guy whom they have not married always run this risk, especially if the dad is from another country and culture.

Maybe in the west, they can force the dad to pay child support and all that,but it is not practically possible to force somebody who has left the place for good to pay child support.

It is irrelevant whether the father is a GCC citizens or not.

Instead "searching for answer", why not include discussing PREVENTION? so that it will minimize the same scenario in the future.

K Brit understood

Brit, where those father's in arrears over CSA? Because if they were, I have no sympathy for them.

No! only for those residing in the UK.

So how is the UK government gonna force tht sheik to pay????

Well Marco if u took ur time to read wht I said....CONTRACTUAL marriage....they go into it know the person will only b in the country or there countries for a short while....ND NO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING BELIEVING....nothing to do with feelings or love or anything of tht sort...it hasto do with lust and the greed of MONEY....so yes both parents r to blame or shall we say the sperm donor and the 9mnth baby carrier...

the UK government set up the Child Support Agency (CSA) for tracking down fathers and forcing them to pay child maintenance. However, two fathers went to court and accused the agency of being overbearing and on a witch hunt. It was accused of threatening fathers with jail without giving them the right to defend themselves.

I h*te people who cry after they had fun. Duh!! BTW it is good to be responsible for ones own actions...you cant do anything and everything without thinking twice and then start throwing tantrums.

Let me ask something Spybot! If you were made believe that you were going to have a future with somebody and a lifetime commitment and this person everything coz you actually believed they were going to be with you for all time.

Your were lied and made to believe that you were going to be the wife and then you get pregnant who is more at fault? The man or the woman.

Then who is left to raise an abandoned child? the man or woman? So who deserves the greater support the man or woman?

Blame for what?

UK, I don't think she knew what a Sheik was, and she never contacted him, he came looking for his son.

so, in this case, do we blame the father or the mother - or both ?

Yes Miss Mimi the western women are dying to bed the Sheiks..:)lol

I know one guy who was born in the States. His mother was a raving alcoholic and he spent much of his childhood in poverty. Imagine his surprise when he was 16 and his natural father, a member of a particular GCC royal family, came and found him and invited him back to live with them.

This happens all over the world, I came across a number of ladies here Qatar who had kids outside of wedlock and left them behind with their parents and with no sign of the father.

Secondly yes GCC men don't have to pay for the kids if they are born out of wedlock to ladies who are not from the GCC. Technically if they admit they are the fathers they will end up been punished for sex outside of wedlock which I assume is a crime in these countries!

First and foremost I must say it is a disgrace tht children are abandoned by whom ever.

Now the truth I will say....don't use children as pawns to try and justify and make the men feel bad....The woman are just as much to blame for what is happening...They go into contract marriages with these men y? so tht they can have money at the end of the day and these woman don't learn they do it all the time and all for the love of money...

Yes I do know ppl tht have done this and are still doing it men and woman and no I don't agree with it...

BOTH PARTIES MUST CARRY THE BLAME FOR WHT THEY ARE DOING.

You are right. The welfare system does provide for the children - so they have a safety net.

the examples I have given have no intention of returning to their home countries - but will retire in Asia..

But is it only done by GCC Arabs? Cos this topic happens to be very personal to me and I can vouch for it happening all around the world. Ie Fathers abandoning the children they sire out of wedlock. Some countries just don't have the legal system commanding the men to pay for child support etc thus the woman becomes the sole supporter of the child. It is unjust no doubt but again those in concern do know the risks involved many times.

Well for the most part the governments of the countries these women are from have laws and ways to help them, whether welfare or tax deduction.

Also they can file for Child Support in absentia and if the father doesn't pay, a warrant is issued for his arrest, so if he ever goes back to that country or to a country or extradites for this, he'll be tossed in jail till he pays up.

It is wrong, but sadly it happens all over the world.

I know four expats , who "abandoned" their families including children in the UK / Canada and have "remarried" here in the GCC.

Link http://whatsupksa.net/v3/index.php/interviews/the-unforgotten-saudis