I hear about waiting lists for good schools and waiting lists for 'bad' schools. Can someone tell me just how bad is 'bad' - are we talking major bullying, poor teaching, lack of facilities? Please advise. Thanks
but the extra language lessons apply only for older children (once the window of language is closed, which I think is 6 years old, roughfully). A child that beggins the schooling years doesn't only need them, it could actually put too much presure on him. It is well documented that the child that starts school with no language skills lags behind only for a very short period and catches up fairly quickly with the other children - yes I have done extensive research, as it affects me directly.
Again, It is very important that the school professionals speak the language clearly, regardless ot the accent as long as it is not so thick and understandable for the native speaker, and with gramatical correctness. Personally, I'd feel gutted if a future teacher tells me not to expect those things simply because I cant' speak the language properly myself. Not a very professional response, me thinks.
Here is a quotation from a posting (not written by me!) on another thread.
"The school also has a high number of teachers, whose mother tongue is not English,the largest group being South African,many of whom speak with thick Afrikans accents...they are there because they are cheap to employ."
I have some excellent South African colleagues, so I found this posting very unfair and unkind. On another thread about Newton International School, you can also read complaints from parents about there being too many Australian and Kiwi teachers at the school. Therefore I cannot understand why you claim that my comments are "rubbish".
My posting entitled "Unfair and Unreasonable Parents" raised a number of issues. The recruiting and retaining staff (with or without posh English accents) is just one of the problems faced by school principals in Doha. The fact that most of the subsequent postings have been about the "accent issue" just shows how most parents do not want to think about other issues.
I think nobody was moaning about teacher's not having a "posh accent", but rather having a thick accent.
I think it's important for teachers to be able to speak clearly and be easily understood by their pupils, ie, if I'm sending my children to a french school (which I plan to) and teachers have strong Quebec accent or Criolle, it would be really difficult for my children to understand or even worse, they could end up speaking broken french. I think it is also important for the teacher to be able to make gramatically correct sentences. If I am paying for a french school, then I think a standard french (not a posh parisian accent!) its a minimum requirement. Same applies for an english school...
I really don't know how bad a thick afrikan accent could be, but if a english native parent is complaining about it, then it must be really really bad!
I just want to make a point that teachers being able to speak clearly the language that they are teaching is important, even if it sounds irish or american or even scotish, that's not important, as long as it is easily understood.
Alexa, I don't get your point. There are hundred of thousand of households in UK where english is not spoken at all, however their children speak native english, which they learnt at school. Is that a bad thing?. There is a chinese shop next to my home in Spain, the owners don't speak a word of spanish, but their children do speak just like any other spanish child, they learnt it at school. In fact, there are so many english and german speaking families in Spain who don't speak the languages but their children do because they were enroled in spanish schools. How do you think the new generation of turkish in Germany learnt german if not in school? Why do you think is bad for a child to learn an enterely new language at school?
I'm only asking because we speak only english and spanish at home and will rely on schooling (and the grand parents visits!) alone for french.
" In fact, elsewhere on this forum you can read complaints from parents (not from teachers) who have written QL postings to moan about their child's teacher not having a posh English accent, as well as postings complaining about the high number of my antidpodean coleagues"
Having been here a year and fighting to get my children in the school most suited to them, I never once read an article on here stating that rubbish.
Im English, from 'up north', my wife is Irish and both my kids have been schooled, predominantly in England. Not a single one of us has a " posh English accent ".
My sons' teacher is from New Zealand, my daughters is Scottish and to be blunt they are the best we could have hoped for.
Stop the anti British/ English rubbish. Its boring, too frequent and all together racist.
This board is fast becoming a joke!
Humanity is simply a parade of fools....and im right at the front twirling the biggest baton anyones ever seen.
I am in total agreement about your comments regarding the nationality of teachers. My husband has a (these days, only a slight) Texas accent, and he is one of the finest teachers I know. His IB Diploma results in Chemistry are extraordinarily good. In addition, one of my best and oldest friends is from Sydney and she is a SUPERB teacher. One of the great advantages of UK and Auzzie teachers is that tend to teach a subject (science in my case) to kids from 11-16 years and specialise post 16. So, I can teach bio/chem/phys/earth sci all the way to IGCSE, and so can the Auzzies. Some US teachers tend to only teach one grade or subject - though not all.
I only know one SA teacher and he was very good indeed.
As for a posh accent.....well, at a push I can put on the cut-glass BBC2 accent, but hey!, I'm from Stoke-on-Trent so 'eh up duck!' and live with the accent!
It's nice to be in touch with some Doha teachers, though.
Also, I wasn't trying to push Qatar Academy - just telling you where I was heading. It seems a great fit with US as a couple.
I have some excellent South African, Australian and Kiwi colleagues and I absolutely agree that you do not have to be from the U.K. to be a good teacher. However, the fact remains that most schools in Doha would indeed prefer to hire staff from the U.K. In fact, elsewhere on this forum you can read complaints from parents (not from teachers) who have written QL postings to moan about their child's teacher not having a posh English accent, as well as postings complaining about the high number of my antidpodean coleagues. Sad, but true. You can also read my comments in defence of my fellow-professionals. You will find my remarks on the "Park House" thread.
A lot of schools would probably prefer to recruit staff from the U.K., especially if the school follows the English National Curriculum, but they have no other option but to hire from Australia and South Africa.
I refer to your comment above. For your information British teachers are not always the best.
There are some very good South African teachers out there who work ten times harder than teachers from the UK.
They are also more caring and take a good deal of interest in their students well being. Something that British teachers sincerely lack.
British teachers could learn a thing or two about being more compassionate from their SA collegues!!
........so maybe I can add some enlightenment here. I am British, have 15 years teaching experience, including Head of Science at an extremely good technology college in the UK, where I supervised 16 staff. I teach science and my (American) husband is a principal.
In addition, I have taught in 3 other EXCELLENT international schools. One in Caracas, Venezuela, one in Dhaka, Bangladesh and finally one here in Norway. In these types of schools there is a definite pecking order. I have only taught in very good schools, and most properly credentialed and educated teachers prefer these types. These schools tend to share some common characteristics.
Better schools are generally (though not exclusively) not-for-profit, first and foremost. Often their boards are self-perpetuating, that is, certain companies and embassies always submit a board member. Don't be fooled into thinking that this is not as good as elected boards - self-perpetuating members have to abide by the rules and set policy without interfering with the day-to-day running of the school. Their jobs can depend on it. Often, (though not always, of course, there are many lovely, dedicated elected board members out there) elected members have their own agendas and some perpetrate personal vendettas against cerain policies and individuals.
What you say about curriculum is correct. The best curriculum out there for post 16 is the IB diploma without a shadown of doubt in my mind. There is nothing wrong with the IGCSE, or the MYP (which I favour.)
One important question is regarding staff. How long do they stay? Also, how many were recruited overseas and did not start teaching because their spouse works here? Some hardship schools (e.g. maybe Ulaanbataar etc) are really one contract schools - two years max. Some schools keep staff for decades - which may have drawbacks too if you think about it. So long as all the staff have the appropriate qualifications, I find it healthy to see a mix of nationalities. Bear this in mind, lousy teachers are almost impossible to sack in the UK and the US, the process can take forever. In many international schools, the weak links are non-renewed. The link between staff pay and the cost to parents is not always as clear as you may think. Some schools maintain limits on class sizes which obviously pushes up the number of staff. Poor schools have huge classes to keep down staff costs but don't pass on those savings. Ask about class sizes.
Now, this isn't the ultimate in school guides, I know. You have to do your research and see which schools share your ethics. For example,
you may have kids who thrive on structure and routine, whereas others may prefer a more free-wheeling, Montessori approach. A good school should let you visit and, within reason, give you access to documentation such as curriculum, and let you visit a classroom - obviously with an appointment. Teachers really are professionals too, you know, and an appointment is a courtesy (although I don't mind visitors whenever :-)) Be honest, find a school that is a good fit with your child, not just go to what people say is 'the best.'Often, the curriculum is posted on the school website. There should be policies on health and safety, including for a variety of emergencies and they should do things like evacuation drills in case of fire.
I have two boys who will be almost five when they come to Qatar, so I am a mother as well as a teacher. As a couple we had offers to go to 3 other schools in 3 other countries. Where shall I be teaching? Qatar Academy.
We are lucky as a Family to have got both our children into the school we wanted. It wasnt just luck though. It was relentless pressure onto the Schools Admin,(every day for 5 months). Im not naming Schools, but one thing I will say is find the School which suits your kids curriculum. We nearly comprimised and it would have been a massive mistake, given the reports on the latter School recently.
Humanity is simply a parade of fools....and im right at the front twirling the biggest baton anyones ever seen.
There seems to be some very unfair assumptions in these posts. Do Doha schools really find it so easy to recruit (and retain) well qualified staff? No, I do not think so. A lot of schools would probably prefer to recruit staff from the U.K., especially if the school follows the English National Curriculum, but they have no other option but to hire from Australia and South Africa.
Is it easy and cheap to find good accommodation for your teachers, once you have managed to persuade them to come to Qatar? Of course not. Flats are becoming more and more expensive, but teachers are going to leave if they are not given adequate accommodation.
Some things (such as Qatari bureaurocracy) are beyond a school's control, yet they definitely have an impact and make it more difficult to keep both parents and teachers happy.
Do all parents want the same things? What are schools supposed to do when the wishes of Parent A conflict with what Parent B wants for his or her little darling? Muslim parents may well be keen on their child learning Arabic and Islamic Studies in single-sex classes. Western expat parents do not see these things as priorities for their children, so how are schools supposed to keep both groups of parents happy?
There are heaps of posts on QL about waiting lists, but then parents also complain when classes are too big! Isn't this trying to have your cake and eat it?
If you think that being a headmistress or headmaster of a school in Doha is something that is so easy and hassle-free, then you really do not know anything about international education.
Having spoken to colleagues at several different schools in Doha, I know that high staff turnover is a major problem. But how are school principals supposed to improve their schools, when so many teachers only stay for a few terms? If schools pay higher salaries, in order to encourage staff to stay longer, guess what happens? Yes, the parents complain about the higher fees.
Lists are long for both good and bad schools im afraid (AND THERE ARE SOME REALLY BAD ONES FOR ALL THE REASONS STATED ABOVE.) Im not prepared to say which on here but if you send me a PM i'll reply with my honest opinion and advice.
[img_assist|nid=17864|title=Chicks dig Guys with skills|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=440]
Well, they are your children, kiwipaula, and so it is your responsibility to decide what is best for them. Some parents simply do not have the option of homeschooling, if both parents are working. What I would advise is going to see any future school and make sure that you have a good look round. Try to prepare some difficult questions to ask and then see if the headmaster or headmistress gives you honest and sensible answers. For example, some schools ang on to good staff, whereas a high rate of staff turnover is often a sign of bad management. School websites are not so reliable, but a good source of information is a parent who already has a child at the school that you want to send your child to.
From my experience here in Doha, a bad school has a weak curriculum, teachers and staff belligerent to students, lack of supervision and high turnover of teachers not just year to year but during the school year itself.
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but the extra language lessons apply only for older children (once the window of language is closed, which I think is 6 years old, roughfully). A child that beggins the schooling years doesn't only need them, it could actually put too much presure on him. It is well documented that the child that starts school with no language skills lags behind only for a very short period and catches up fairly quickly with the other children - yes I have done extensive research, as it affects me directly.
Again, It is very important that the school professionals speak the language clearly, regardless ot the accent as long as it is not so thick and understandable for the native speaker, and with gramatical correctness. Personally, I'd feel gutted if a future teacher tells me not to expect those things simply because I cant' speak the language properly myself. Not a very professional response, me thinks.
Dear MattHardingLower,
Here is a quotation from a posting (not written by me!) on another thread.
"The school also has a high number of teachers, whose mother tongue is not English,the largest group being South African,many of whom speak with thick Afrikans accents...they are there because they are cheap to employ."
I have some excellent South African colleagues, so I found this posting very unfair and unkind. On another thread about Newton International School, you can also read complaints from parents about there being too many Australian and Kiwi teachers at the school. Therefore I cannot understand why you claim that my comments are "rubbish".
My posting entitled "Unfair and Unreasonable Parents" raised a number of issues. The recruiting and retaining staff (with or without posh English accents) is just one of the problems faced by school principals in Doha. The fact that most of the subsequent postings have been about the "accent issue" just shows how most parents do not want to think about other issues.
I think nobody was moaning about teacher's not having a "posh accent", but rather having a thick accent.
I think it's important for teachers to be able to speak clearly and be easily understood by their pupils, ie, if I'm sending my children to a french school (which I plan to) and teachers have strong Quebec accent or Criolle, it would be really difficult for my children to understand or even worse, they could end up speaking broken french. I think it is also important for the teacher to be able to make gramatically correct sentences. If I am paying for a french school, then I think a standard french (not a posh parisian accent!) its a minimum requirement. Same applies for an english school...
I really don't know how bad a thick afrikan accent could be, but if a english native parent is complaining about it, then it must be really really bad!
I just want to make a point that teachers being able to speak clearly the language that they are teaching is important, even if it sounds irish or american or even scotish, that's not important, as long as it is easily understood.
Alexa, I don't get your point. There are hundred of thousand of households in UK where english is not spoken at all, however their children speak native english, which they learnt at school. Is that a bad thing?. There is a chinese shop next to my home in Spain, the owners don't speak a word of spanish, but their children do speak just like any other spanish child, they learnt it at school. In fact, there are so many english and german speaking families in Spain who don't speak the languages but their children do because they were enroled in spanish schools. How do you think the new generation of turkish in Germany learnt german if not in school? Why do you think is bad for a child to learn an enterely new language at school?
I'm only asking because we speak only english and spanish at home and will rely on schooling (and the grand parents visits!) alone for french.
" In fact, elsewhere on this forum you can read complaints from parents (not from teachers) who have written QL postings to moan about their child's teacher not having a posh English accent, as well as postings complaining about the high number of my antidpodean coleagues"
Having been here a year and fighting to get my children in the school most suited to them, I never once read an article on here stating that rubbish.
Im English, from 'up north', my wife is Irish and both my kids have been schooled, predominantly in England. Not a single one of us has a " posh English accent ".
My sons' teacher is from New Zealand, my daughters is Scottish and to be blunt they are the best we could have hoped for.
Stop the anti British/ English rubbish. Its boring, too frequent and all together racist.
This board is fast becoming a joke!
Humanity is simply a parade of fools....and im right at the front twirling the biggest baton anyones ever seen.
I am in total agreement about your comments regarding the nationality of teachers. My husband has a (these days, only a slight) Texas accent, and he is one of the finest teachers I know. His IB Diploma results in Chemistry are extraordinarily good. In addition, one of my best and oldest friends is from Sydney and she is a SUPERB teacher. One of the great advantages of UK and Auzzie teachers is that tend to teach a subject (science in my case) to kids from 11-16 years and specialise post 16. So, I can teach bio/chem/phys/earth sci all the way to IGCSE, and so can the Auzzies. Some US teachers tend to only teach one grade or subject - though not all.
I only know one SA teacher and he was very good indeed.
As for a posh accent.....well, at a push I can put on the cut-glass BBC2 accent, but hey!, I'm from Stoke-on-Trent so 'eh up duck!' and live with the accent!
It's nice to be in touch with some Doha teachers, though.
Also, I wasn't trying to push Qatar Academy - just telling you where I was heading. It seems a great fit with US as a couple.
Love to all!
Beccs XXX
I have some excellent South African, Australian and Kiwi colleagues and I absolutely agree that you do not have to be from the U.K. to be a good teacher. However, the fact remains that most schools in Doha would indeed prefer to hire staff from the U.K. In fact, elsewhere on this forum you can read complaints from parents (not from teachers) who have written QL postings to moan about their child's teacher not having a posh English accent, as well as postings complaining about the high number of my antidpodean coleagues. Sad, but true. You can also read my comments in defence of my fellow-professionals. You will find my remarks on the "Park House" thread.
A lot of schools would probably prefer to recruit staff from the U.K., especially if the school follows the English National Curriculum, but they have no other option but to hire from Australia and South Africa.
I refer to your comment above. For your information British teachers are not always the best.
There are some very good South African teachers out there who work ten times harder than teachers from the UK.
They are also more caring and take a good deal of interest in their students well being. Something that British teachers sincerely lack.
British teachers could learn a thing or two about being more compassionate from their SA collegues!!
........so maybe I can add some enlightenment here. I am British, have 15 years teaching experience, including Head of Science at an extremely good technology college in the UK, where I supervised 16 staff. I teach science and my (American) husband is a principal.
In addition, I have taught in 3 other EXCELLENT international schools. One in Caracas, Venezuela, one in Dhaka, Bangladesh and finally one here in Norway. In these types of schools there is a definite pecking order. I have only taught in very good schools, and most properly credentialed and educated teachers prefer these types. These schools tend to share some common characteristics.
Better schools are generally (though not exclusively) not-for-profit, first and foremost. Often their boards are self-perpetuating, that is, certain companies and embassies always submit a board member. Don't be fooled into thinking that this is not as good as elected boards - self-perpetuating members have to abide by the rules and set policy without interfering with the day-to-day running of the school. Their jobs can depend on it. Often, (though not always, of course, there are many lovely, dedicated elected board members out there) elected members have their own agendas and some perpetrate personal vendettas against cerain policies and individuals.
What you say about curriculum is correct. The best curriculum out there for post 16 is the IB diploma without a shadown of doubt in my mind. There is nothing wrong with the IGCSE, or the MYP (which I favour.)
One important question is regarding staff. How long do they stay? Also, how many were recruited overseas and did not start teaching because their spouse works here? Some hardship schools (e.g. maybe Ulaanbataar etc) are really one contract schools - two years max. Some schools keep staff for decades - which may have drawbacks too if you think about it. So long as all the staff have the appropriate qualifications, I find it healthy to see a mix of nationalities. Bear this in mind, lousy teachers are almost impossible to sack in the UK and the US, the process can take forever. In many international schools, the weak links are non-renewed. The link between staff pay and the cost to parents is not always as clear as you may think. Some schools maintain limits on class sizes which obviously pushes up the number of staff. Poor schools have huge classes to keep down staff costs but don't pass on those savings. Ask about class sizes.
Now, this isn't the ultimate in school guides, I know. You have to do your research and see which schools share your ethics. For example,
you may have kids who thrive on structure and routine, whereas others may prefer a more free-wheeling, Montessori approach. A good school should let you visit and, within reason, give you access to documentation such as curriculum, and let you visit a classroom - obviously with an appointment. Teachers really are professionals too, you know, and an appointment is a courtesy (although I don't mind visitors whenever :-)) Be honest, find a school that is a good fit with your child, not just go to what people say is 'the best.'Often, the curriculum is posted on the school website. There should be policies on health and safety, including for a variety of emergencies and they should do things like evacuation drills in case of fire.
I have two boys who will be almost five when they come to Qatar, so I am a mother as well as a teacher. As a couple we had offers to go to 3 other schools in 3 other countries. Where shall I be teaching? Qatar Academy.
Love to all
Becca XXXXX
We are lucky as a Family to have got both our children into the school we wanted. It wasnt just luck though. It was relentless pressure onto the Schools Admin,(every day for 5 months). Im not naming Schools, but one thing I will say is find the School which suits your kids curriculum. We nearly comprimised and it would have been a massive mistake, given the reports on the latter School recently.
Humanity is simply a parade of fools....and im right at the front twirling the biggest baton anyones ever seen.
There seems to be some very unfair assumptions in these posts. Do Doha schools really find it so easy to recruit (and retain) well qualified staff? No, I do not think so. A lot of schools would probably prefer to recruit staff from the U.K., especially if the school follows the English National Curriculum, but they have no other option but to hire from Australia and South Africa.
Is it easy and cheap to find good accommodation for your teachers, once you have managed to persuade them to come to Qatar? Of course not. Flats are becoming more and more expensive, but teachers are going to leave if they are not given adequate accommodation.
Some things (such as Qatari bureaurocracy) are beyond a school's control, yet they definitely have an impact and make it more difficult to keep both parents and teachers happy.
Do all parents want the same things? What are schools supposed to do when the wishes of Parent A conflict with what Parent B wants for his or her little darling? Muslim parents may well be keen on their child learning Arabic and Islamic Studies in single-sex classes. Western expat parents do not see these things as priorities for their children, so how are schools supposed to keep both groups of parents happy?
There are heaps of posts on QL about waiting lists, but then parents also complain when classes are too big! Isn't this trying to have your cake and eat it?
If you think that being a headmistress or headmaster of a school in Doha is something that is so easy and hassle-free, then you really do not know anything about international education.
Having spoken to colleagues at several different schools in Doha, I know that high staff turnover is a major problem. But how are school principals supposed to improve their schools, when so many teachers only stay for a few terms? If schools pay higher salaries, in order to encourage staff to stay longer, guess what happens? Yes, the parents complain about the higher fees.
unqualified teachers.....crap curriculum( not the curriculum itself but how they work with it) , weak students, no support, no differentiation....
Lists are long for both good and bad schools im afraid (AND THERE ARE SOME REALLY BAD ONES FOR ALL THE REASONS STATED ABOVE.) Im not prepared to say which on here but if you send me a PM i'll reply with my honest opinion and advice.
[img_assist|nid=17864|title=Chicks dig Guys with skills|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=440]
Well, they are your children, kiwipaula, and so it is your responsibility to decide what is best for them. Some parents simply do not have the option of homeschooling, if both parents are working. What I would advise is going to see any future school and make sure that you have a good look round. Try to prepare some difficult questions to ask and then see if the headmaster or headmistress gives you honest and sensible answers. For example, some schools ang on to good staff, whereas a high rate of staff turnover is often a sign of bad management. School websites are not so reliable, but a good source of information is a parent who already has a child at the school that you want to send your child to.
Good luck!
I have heard some stories that horrify me. I would homeschool my kids before going anywhere near those institutions.
In the U.K., bad schools don't have waiting lists, but good schools do. Here in Qatar, it seems that ALL schools have waiting lists.
From my experience here in Doha, a bad school has a weak curriculum, teachers and staff belligerent to students, lack of supervision and high turnover of teachers not just year to year but during the school year itself.