Can the US live in peace with its guns?
Great article.. Any thoughts ?
LA Notebook: Seven gunmen have killed 50 people in the past month
The day that my US Green Card arrived in the post, I remember thinking to myself: “Oh cool, now I can go out and buy a high-powered semi-automatic assault weapon.”
Approximately two millionths of a second later, I had another thought - actually it's probably best if I don't go out and buy a high-powered semi-automatic assault weapon, or any other kind of weapon for that matter.
Knowing me, I would almost certainly shoot myself in the groin while loading it. Or my two-year-old son would get hold of it and execute his play date.
Or someone would break into our house and I would scramble for the gun. but hesitate before pulling the trigger and then the intruder, being more experienced in such matters, would grab it off me. And by that time he'd be angry.
Or I'd kill the intruder and then a blood spatter expert would declare at my trial that I'd shot him as he was turned away from me and I'd spend the rest of my life on Death Row.
The truth is that, when you get down to the boring, un-Rambo-ish details, it's hard to envisage a scenario in which the benefits of owning a gun for the sake of self-defence outnumber the pitfalls.
Take the issue of storage: most gunowners I know keep their firearms and clips locked up in separate places, for safety. But you can't very well say to the bloke in the ski mask who has just burst into your bedroom wielding an industrial meat cleaver: “Oh hang on a minute, old chap, while I remember the key-code to my gun box - and if you can just bear with me for a few moments longer, I need to go down to the shed to fetch my bullets.”
I mention all this because in the past four weeks a total of seven gunmen have killed 50 people in mass shootings across the US, which has inevitably provoked another debate over Americans' (and, by extension, Green Card holders') right to bear arms.
Some argue that such things would never happen if guns were banned; others say that such things would never happen if everyone from grannies to toddlers were packing heat.
While the latter argument is terrifying - who on earth would want to live in such a country? - I can understand why the Second Amendment (which protects the right to bear arms) is considered so politically untouchable. After all, it serves broadly the same purpose as Britain's constitutional monarchy, ie, to keep the elected government's ego in check.
But, of course, there's a crucial difference - a lone psychopath can buy a gun and shoot 13 people as they take an immigration exam in Binghamton, New York; that same lunatic would have a harder time trying to kidnap the Queen and use her to start a war with France.
Still, it took us a thousand years to reach such a benign relationship with our royals. We can only hope that it doesn't take so long for the Americans to reach a similarly tenable state of affairs when it comes to their firearms.
Bullet-proof :
If anything, the recent shootings have inspired more Americans to buy guns, recession or no recession.
In fact, all over the country they are stocking up on as many pistols, rifles, and shotguns as possible before the Obama Administration bans or taxes them.
According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the FBI carried out more than 4.2 million background checks on behalf of gundealers from November to January (a check is required with every sale), up 31 per cent on the same period in the previous year.
Interestingly, however, violent crime rates have at the same time been falling in Los Angeles, New York and other big American cities The experts are at loss as to explain why this should be happening.
I have my own theory: people are buying so many guns that the criminals are simply running out of bullets. Or as one firing instructor explained to the Columbus Dispatch newspaper: “The ammo is being snapped up as soon as it comes in. People are in a frenzy. It's kind of like that run on Elmo dolls.”
Child's play:
Speaking of Elmo dolls, a good number of the people arming themselves these days are young mothers.
If you don't believe me, visit BabyCenter.com, where a discussion forum was opened recently under the headline: “Do you think that every mother should own a gun?” One reader responded: “I keep a loaded 9mm in my diaper bag.”
Another wrote: “I carry a Keltec 380 [a small pistol] on my hip every day. I can clip it on my belt with the pistol between my undies and my jeans. I consider myself an easy target, a young mother who is juggling two rowdy toddlers, so I can't explain enough how glad I am that we have the right to bear arms.”
Ah yes, toddlers and deadly weapons - that famously reassuring combination.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/chris_ayres/article6...
Per Capita Canadians have more guns then Americans, these are shot guns and rifles that are used for hunting. There are significantly less hand guns because they are nearly impossible to get, because the only purpose of hand guns is to kill people, that's it. We have guns in some schools, not to protect from the students, but to protect from the occasional bear that will wander onto the property.
The difference in the murder rates between the two countries is the extreme paranoia Americans live with, to watch their news you would think there were child kidnappers, drug dealers and terrorists on every corner.
In Canada our news talks about long hospital waiting times and the results of the local municipal elections.
I think this depends on society.
I think reason is historic.
English occupation had its effect on spreading weapons on US. American civil war had its effect too.
sticking to the post which focuses on US, I would say the article of right to bare arms has its historic roots. at the time where the states were united, there were big meetings and states leaders had to give measures (like the right to protest and free expression) in order to assure every state that it won't be controlled. Rights to have arms may have been one of the measures put in place to achieve union of the states. This might a big obstacle in banning weapons as it might be viewed as violation of constituition.
I would agree with you regarding the rights to bear arms.
But given the ready access to guns, should those rights be more controlled now ?
Our country was founded on our freedoms, one of those being the right to bear arms. I have several handguns and a shotgun at my house back in the U.S. I've never shot anyone, but it 's my freedom to own them. As for the crazies out there shooting people, I believe they would have found another way to kill their victims had they not had access to guns...they were on a mission to kill...plain and simple
Do you actually read the article or do you just work on the premise that alrticles posted about America are wrong and only nice things should be posted :)
Wow surprised at you missing the point.
Size of population is irrelevant,
No one talked about gross figures, rather proportionality is how you compare differing population sizes.
"British military were invading and murdering our citizens"
if you want to be accurate the British military were killing their own subjects.
:)
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
and britexpat...i find this totally amusing that the REASON our constitution includes the right to bear arms is that the British military were invading and murdering our citizens and Americans had no way to protect themselves. NOW you go and make such a big hoopla about it. Think for a minute on the sheer size /magnitude of the US and its population and compare it to Britian. Of course we are going to have more violent crime because our population is so much larger than yours!! And yes, i am simplifying it a LOT.
Personally I have 15 guns at home, including rifles and shotguns...but they are mainly not for self defense..they are for hunting. So why not get your knickers out of a knot about someone else's country and don't visit if you don't like the way our country is run? Its rather simple.
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
I have always felt much safer in America than ANY time I have been in the UK...
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
Perhaps the "paranoia" is encourage by the gun lobby who want to make money because of it..
PaulCowan...UK and USA humor has always been different... The 'constitutional right' has always been debated within our country. PM me if you ever want to meet for tea...
Different senses of humour Jolena, I was being light-hearted, I didn't get that you were.
You're right about the independence thing - I read that the "constitutional right" was intended only so that militias could be armed to fight the British 200-odd years ago and it is now interpreted in a way that was never intended.
Anyway, for light entertainment there is always Weird Al
(great cartoon with this version)
DohaSteve...it just is... paranoia and fear... Until I left the US about 10 years ago (for work) I didn't realize that other countries weren't the same. To answer your question, I can't... It's glamorized in movies, magazines, music, etc.
We're also paranoid about "big brother" government. We'd flip out if we had all the cameras around as in the UK.
I was working in the States and sharing an apartment with an old geezer who was also the client on the job.
While discussing the Columbine School shootings over dinner at a restaurant one evening, he told me that he had 27 handguns, 4 of which were in the apartment (the rest were at his house in Mississippi).
One on his bedside table, one in the kitchen drawer, one in his bathroom beside the sink, and one in the lounge area under the coffee table.
He said they were "for protection".
When I asked how old he was he told me he was 67.
When I asked how many times his home (or the apartment) had been broken into or otherwise attacked he said "none".
When I asked how many times he feared for his life he said "all the time".
His reason? Because everybody else had a gun.
So as a Brit who was at the time living in America and having also lived in Africa, Georgia (the country, not the State), Kazakhstan, Russia, and Azerbaijan (places where gun ownership is almost mandatory) I can honestly say that of all the countries I have lived in where gun ownership was part of the culture, nowhere but the good old USA did I ever see this paranoia and fear.
Anybody got a suggestion as to why that would be?
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"I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places". - Henny Youngman
After reading this, I am once again drawn to cultures differing and people being ethnocentric. People from outside the US culture will say how wrong it is while the US itself will say this is how it is.
I like this article and how it was written. It was not comparing cultures, just one's observation of a cultural norm and why he failed to understand it. No need to compare cultures
You can't teach experience...
PaulCowan...duh... I was being sarcastic! Without the guns we probably would've ended up with the Queens face on our dollar.
Please lighten up! Once again, my very first post in this string was to add to various stats that were being thrown around. I wasn't for it, I wasn't against it.
It amazes me that non-US are getting pants in a bunch about what goes on in our country.
Will the UK help you celebrate? You may recall that it is independence FROM the UK you will be celebrating! Still, I'm sure our ambassadors will be offering their congratulations.
No one will ever understand Americans obsession with guns, exccept Americans. It is what it is, and won't change...at least not for another couple of generations. The words thrown around on this forum won't change our mindset.
My first post within this thread wasn't for it, nor was it against it. People were throwing around stats and I added to that. What is wrong with that? 200,000+ deaths per year due to prescription interactions...makes me more concerned about our healthcare system than worried about guns.
And yes, I enjoy working here in Qatar where I feel safer (less rapes, muggings, carjackings), but on the flip side I'm not advocating for giving up our guns in America. No one will 'get it' unless they're from there or at least study our history in depth... July 4th is coming around the corner. Will the UK help us celebrate?
Jolena, if I ever go to the US I will do so knowing that the proliferation of firearms means I am at ten times more risk than I am in Britain. I truly don't understand the American obsession with guns: a large proportion of Americans react to gun control ideas as if you had suggested compulsory castration of Americans at birth. If you look at the statistics from the rest of the world it is clear that you are needlessly endangering yourselves with this policy, but the response is to ignore that information as if the US is somehow utterly different from the rest of the world.
The thing that is really, really funny is that you come from a place with a firearms death rate of one per 10,000 and the State Department warns you of the "risk of terrorism" in Qatar, where the firearms death rate is very close to zero.
If Qatar had the US firearms death rate, we would have three or four shooting deaths A WEEK here. Scary, eh? How much safer do you guys thing having gun shops on every corner would make us? Obviously, much safer...
Well done Qatar!
This is a discussion.. It has nothing to do with whether we are from / in the USA..
it appears that a lot of people who are adament about no guns within this thread aren't even from the US and are arguing a US ideal which will never change, just stay away from the US...
The thing is, these people who lose it and go on killing sprees exist in every country, it happens frequently in Japan, but because of strict gun laws the most these guys can get their hands on is a knife, so instead of 15 they kill 3.
Heero, fair point in the past but I think Italian
football has taken the unfortunate mantle. As for the
initial post, I don't think it is a reflection of
the Brits attitude towards USA, or indeed, we are holier
than thou.
There are many issues in the UK and as a fellow Brit
pointed out, stabbings have been a major focus in our press. Indeed one of the most attractive things for moving here, particularly when you have children is the better environment you bring them up in, in terms of crime.
As for the allowance of gun ownership in the USA, then that is a personal opionion, that on this occasion has been expressed by a Brit. For my 2 penneth, allowing the public to purchase firearms, whilst defending the American vision of ultimate freedom, is a bit of a paradox for me.
Alexa and Novi, your recent Brit bashing is getting tedious, as is your omnipotent presence and frankly bullying manner.
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I say what I like and I bloody well like what I say
...it's probably because of a football match. LOL
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Last year there were 332 stabbing deaths in the UK, which has about one-fifth the population of the US, so that would translate into the equivalent of 1,670 deaths in a country with the population of the States.
In 2005 there were 31,000 gun deaths in the US, so you are almost 20 times more likely to die violently in the US than in Britain. It is true that half the US gun deaths are suicide, but that still makes it ten times more dangerous to live in the US than in Britain.
I don't think I've ever met a Brit who felt that not being allowed to own guns created any risk at all for them or their families. Quite the reverse, in fact.
As for doctor-caused deaths, if they really are killing 30,000+ Americans a year by accident, then you need to take a really close look at the drug prescription culture and attempt to correct it. It is a red herring to try to compare medical incompetence with gun deaths.
More people are killed in the USA by doctor prescribed drug interactions, than by guns.
"estimated 200,000 deaths per year in America, drug reactions"
http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Miscellaneous/missionstatement.html
It is a fact that most crazies out there shooting up people are not using legal guns... Criminals will always be able to get their grimey hands on guns, at least citizens can protect themselves... Police only come after the fact, they aren't there to protect you. If they don't have guns, they might have higher numbers of stabbings like in the UK. Keep in mind for those that compare rates USA vs UK, that our population is many times higher...so of course we'll have a higher rate...
Oh, I thought you were gung-ho and of the view that suicide bombing deaths outnumbered gun deaths. It took only a couple of minutes to dig that info out.
Please enlighten me on why inquiring about stats was "unwise"? I truly wanted to know the stats and I figured that someone would come through with it.
Lucky for us, you have the time to find these types of statistics. I, on the other hand, do not.
I'm not all that "gun-ho" (excuse the pun) about all the fire arms in the US, especially in our schools.
I taught in the third largest school district in the nation and I was in a lock down situation for 5 hours due to an armed student on campus. It was absolutely frightening.
Seven gunmen's crimes cannot compare to a lot million of Americans who also own guns but just keeps it for self-defense use.
Btw, I don't own a firearm.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Cynbob, how interesting (and unwise) of you to want statistics on gun deaths vs suicide bombing deaths.
From 1999 to 2005 in the US there were 200,703 firearms deaths. In the same period, there were 2,923 deaths from terrorism. (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html)
Global stats for suicide bombings are harder to find. In Israel, 52 suicide bombings from 2001 to 2004 killed 288 people.
In Iraq about 14,000 people were killed by suicide bombers from the start of the invasion up to last summer, and that is the country worst affected.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-cult-of-the-suicide-bomber-795649.html
Afghanistan must run to a few hundred as must Sri Lanka. Attacks in Bali, London, Egypt, Spain etc probably come to around another 1,000, and 9-11 another 2,000. Am I missing anywhere with significant suicide bombing deaths?
All in all, it seems likely that all the suicide bombings worldwide in recent years have accounted for fewer than one tenth of the deaths caused by firearms in the US alone in the first half of this decade.
Globally NO Nuclear Arms Treaty! Hope that shall implement soon to make this world a peaceful place.
Late but least some wisdom thoughts....
I agree, Steve. Everybody who carries a gun should die through it!
.... are the army and the police.
Anyone else seen carrying a firearm should be shot on sight.
This saves the state (whether US, UK, European, or whatever) from the expense of setting up a trial which needs lawyers, judges, jurors, clerks, somewhere to house the accused (if no bail is granted), secretarial services, rest rooms, blah blah blah ....
If they were simply shot, all that would be required is a couple of pieces of paper from the shooter (a hero of the people) and a doctor declaring death (another hero, but slightly less glamorous).
.... as a footnote, people who double park their cars should also be shot. Along with Estate Agents.
These are just opinions, of course, not something I would be prepared to die for; actually not even something that I would be prepared to suffer mild discomfort for.
Later!
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"I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places". - Henny Youngman
I agree.. There are numerous problems and issues in the UK, especially regarding abuse of children etc.
I am appalled at the rise in gun crime in the UK, especially amongst the teens. Recently , in Germany a teen killed numerous students.
The point is that access to guns and freedom to own weapons is a relevant and concerns us all.
I thought the article was interesting and worth discussing.
Alexa are your refering to Gun ownership in the UK. Then unlike Germany, it is unlawful to buy or keep a gun in the UK.
Maybe that is why you hear more of stabbings rather than shootings.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
There's no evidence so far that they are...unless you consider the voices they hear in their heads organized groups.
Are you sure that the acts of the "lone lunatics" are NOT in an organized group?
I think some people here might take offence to the fact that you're calling their society under-developed and un-civilized Brits. Personally I don't think mass murders have a place in any society. However on the "bright side" at least these acts were the acts of lone lunatics and not an organized group.
There is a clear difference here. We are supposed to be developed and civilized society. Massacres, such as those perpertrated in the past couple of weeks have no place in such a society.
I wondered that too. Good point.
I find it interesting to see how many others question the right to bare arms and the consequences of this amendment in the US, when in other parts of the world more people are killed with one bomb strapped around suicide bomber's body.
If there is a stat on the numbers killed with bombs used in suicide bombings as compared to killings with guns in the US, I'd love to know that stat.
good ways to help your country coming out of recession by purchasing more weapons like mobile phones for each family member.
Ahhh, good point notfromhere.
But what do they mean by violent crime? Violent crime doesn't have to involve a gun or bullets.
Has gun crime dropped, or violent crime overall? It's not clear.
Well if what he's saying is true and most stores have run out of bullets, I would say that's a reason violent crimes have dropped.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
"According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the FBI carried out more than 4.2 million background checks on behalf of gundealers from November to January (a check is required with every sale), up 31 per cent on the same period in the previous year.
Interestingly, however, violent crime rates have at the same time been falling in Los Angeles, New York and other big American cities The experts are at loss as to explain why this should be happening."
Maybe it's because people who are buying guns aren't using them to commit crimes. They buy a gun thinking they need it for "self-defense", but what are the chances they'll ever actually use it?
Jeez That's scary. :S