i truely appreciate ur response...i think it makes a lot of sense from where u look at things, but is also flawed in my humble openion...
U asked if something was beyond logical proof, why believe in it..
and u also added that the burden of proof is on those who believe, not those who dont..
i beg to differ on both counts...
The human logical faculty and senses are so inherintelly limited in their capacity, that trusting them ABSOLUTELY can't yield no good...
At one point in history, the human inttelect couldnt UNDERSTAND or ACCEPT a very simple fact like that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way round..
SO much so that they killed the scientist who made the claim ( his name slipped my mind right now but i m sure u know who i m talking about)
At that point in time, it was BEYOND LOGICAL PROOF, that the earth revolved around the sun, but let me ask u Sir , Does that mean that it didnt! :)
As far as burdon of proof is concerned, i must tell u man, this is not a competition...
Like the holly Quran clearly stipulates( and the bible and the torah), Those who believe in God, do so for their own good, those who dont, do so for their own detriment...
God has created an entire universe in perfect order, and everywhere we turn our heads there is a sign and proof of His existnace...( adding up to an INFINITE NUMBER OF SIGNS)
Should anyone fail 2 recognise these signs, that has no bearing on the fact that they exist, and no bearing on the fact that they are pointing a zillion and one fingers towards the fact that God does indeed exist and is indeed all knowing and all knowlegable...
What i m saying is in a nutt shell, the " CAUSE" or " NOTION" that God exists needs no MORE proof than what God himself has provided...
Now should u " BELIEVE" or not, thats up to u ...
Another point i want 2 quickly touch upon is this...
In the religion/faith system, God the creator whom we cant see, promises us great things in the after life should we BELIEVE IN HIM and live according to his teachings...
If u enetratin this notion as TRUE for just a second for the sake of argument..Why would that very God reward us if he has SHOWN HIMSELF TO US in a conclusive way that leaves no room for doubt...
How having seen or touched God would u be called a BELIEVER!!!and on what grounds would there be reward and punsihment?
On ur second point, u r answering my question 2 u by pausing one back at me...
i asked u , How is it that someone as intelligent as u , with all the knowledge we now have on our world and surroundings, can believe that this entire cosmos that runs in PERFECT HARMONY is a random act of nature?!!
I will entertain your question however even if u havent answered mine...
No, i disagree that the notion of an all knowing all present God is unlikely because now we can get more and more answers on our own..
i think ( humbly ) it is the very opposite...
i think the more we know , the more we dont know, and the more of God;s presence in our lives is revealed...
I think that when all the molecules and all the cells and all the planets of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE seem 2 rotate in an ellipse form anti clock wise, that this is a sign of one creator ....
i further believe than when i go to Mekka and find myself circling the Kaaba in an ellipse form anticlock wise in the same way all molecule and cells and planets rotate, that indeed the creator of all things is God allmighty....
concering ur question ( which i found very smart ) about why is it that the belief in God is only 4000 years old...
the answer is very simple.
It IS NOT!:)
The belief in God started with Adam...
every single human community throughout history has had some sort of religious affiliation and practice...
the 4000 years i refered to marks Juadism, the 1st organised religion sent to man from God...Complete and whole...
but before that, there were prophets from God, words of God ( to solomon for example), believers, and the whole entire range of things we now do in an organised way....
In conclusion,
i cant say i dont undertand where u r coming from when u want to believe in only things u can see /hear/touch/smell...
I will tell u however that in so doing, any human being would be limiting themselves to the bodilly aspect of themselves, diregarding their 2nd " half" if u will, which is their spirit and soul...
ur spirit and soul is somthing that u cant touch or feel, but it sure does exist...how else do u explain that after death our body is their but WE are not!!!
it is that part of u that feels relaxed when it seems a bueatifull scene, or hears a good peace of music...
its that part of u that gets syched when ur fav football team scores, or when ur see ur GF looking nice in a new dress...
Disregarding that , and treating it like it doesnt exist( by refusing to connect it with its creator) leaves a person at a risk of loosing track of what really makes Humans different as a spcies...or so i think...
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Hey man,
i truely appreciate ur response...i think it makes a lot of sense from where u look at things, but is also flawed in my humble openion...
U asked if something was beyond logical proof, why believe in it..
and u also added that the burden of proof is on those who believe, not those who dont..
i beg to differ on both counts...
The human logical faculty and senses are so inherintelly limited in their capacity, that trusting them ABSOLUTELY can't yield no good...
At one point in history, the human inttelect couldnt UNDERSTAND or ACCEPT a very simple fact like that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way round..
SO much so that they killed the scientist who made the claim ( his name slipped my mind right now but i m sure u know who i m talking about)
At that point in time, it was BEYOND LOGICAL PROOF, that the earth revolved around the sun, but let me ask u Sir , Does that mean that it didnt! :)
As far as burdon of proof is concerned, i must tell u man, this is not a competition...
Like the holly Quran clearly stipulates( and the bible and the torah), Those who believe in God, do so for their own good, those who dont, do so for their own detriment...
God has created an entire universe in perfect order, and everywhere we turn our heads there is a sign and proof of His existnace...( adding up to an INFINITE NUMBER OF SIGNS)
Should anyone fail 2 recognise these signs, that has no bearing on the fact that they exist, and no bearing on the fact that they are pointing a zillion and one fingers towards the fact that God does indeed exist and is indeed all knowing and all knowlegable...
What i m saying is in a nutt shell, the " CAUSE" or " NOTION" that God exists needs no MORE proof than what God himself has provided...
Now should u " BELIEVE" or not, thats up to u ...
Another point i want 2 quickly touch upon is this...
In the religion/faith system, God the creator whom we cant see, promises us great things in the after life should we BELIEVE IN HIM and live according to his teachings...
If u enetratin this notion as TRUE for just a second for the sake of argument..Why would that very God reward us if he has SHOWN HIMSELF TO US in a conclusive way that leaves no room for doubt...
How having seen or touched God would u be called a BELIEVER!!!and on what grounds would there be reward and punsihment?
On ur second point, u r answering my question 2 u by pausing one back at me...
i asked u , How is it that someone as intelligent as u , with all the knowledge we now have on our world and surroundings, can believe that this entire cosmos that runs in PERFECT HARMONY is a random act of nature?!!
I will entertain your question however even if u havent answered mine...
No, i disagree that the notion of an all knowing all present God is unlikely because now we can get more and more answers on our own..
i think ( humbly ) it is the very opposite...
i think the more we know , the more we dont know, and the more of God;s presence in our lives is revealed...
I think that when all the molecules and all the cells and all the planets of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE seem 2 rotate in an ellipse form anti clock wise, that this is a sign of one creator ....
i further believe than when i go to Mekka and find myself circling the Kaaba in an ellipse form anticlock wise in the same way all molecule and cells and planets rotate, that indeed the creator of all things is God allmighty....
concering ur question ( which i found very smart ) about why is it that the belief in God is only 4000 years old...
the answer is very simple.
It IS NOT!:)
The belief in God started with Adam...
every single human community throughout history has had some sort of religious affiliation and practice...
the 4000 years i refered to marks Juadism, the 1st organised religion sent to man from God...Complete and whole...
but before that, there were prophets from God, words of God ( to solomon for example), believers, and the whole entire range of things we now do in an organised way....
In conclusion,
i cant say i dont undertand where u r coming from when u want to believe in only things u can see /hear/touch/smell...
I will tell u however that in so doing, any human being would be limiting themselves to the bodilly aspect of themselves, diregarding their 2nd " half" if u will, which is their spirit and soul...
ur spirit and soul is somthing that u cant touch or feel, but it sure does exist...how else do u explain that after death our body is their but WE are not!!!
it is that part of u that feels relaxed when it seems a bueatifull scene, or hears a good peace of music...
its that part of u that gets syched when ur fav football team scores, or when ur see ur GF looking nice in a new dress...
Disregarding that , and treating it like it doesnt exist( by refusing to connect it with its creator) leaves a person at a risk of loosing track of what really makes Humans different as a spcies...or so i think...
Have a great day..
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"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat