Discuss improvements to MES Indian School
MES Indian School has almost 10000 students now. Thousands have done their schooling there, and practically everyone agrees that the standard of the school has deteriorated in every possible way.
As the first school that catered to students from the sub-continent and even other nationalities, MES has served as a vital part of the social life in Qatar. There is no mechanism currently to voice opinions to the administration and management of MES, and any single opinions are falling in deaf ears. It is about time the wellwishers of the school came together, and started providing feedback in a focused manner, so as to improve the lives of about 10000 students, many of whom cannot afford most of the other schools here.
Please post suggestions about improving the school at :
REMEMBER THAT WE WANT TO IMPROVE THE SCHOOL, AND THE IDEA IS NOT AT ALL TO BASH OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE RELATED TO THE SCHOOL.
lol! is everyone speechless?
Its a fact! Close that trash down.
Only way to improve the school is to kick all the mallus out of Qatar.
1) They cannot teach english curriculum if the cannot even pronounce 1 word correctly!
2) They lack quality and as a result, bring down the quality level of education
Just send them home by the container load
-------
This is not a bashing thread, but suggestions for real improvements
I graduated from MES this year, and it's a mess. English is so unfashionable, a student is a snob if they speak or write it right. They're deluded into believing that they have a future only if they ace Math and Science. If they ace English or a Commerce subject, they were just lucky and will have to live off trash cans.
such mess!
A printed circular signed by the principal can confuse students. And the issue is more about the response/attitude of school authorities. In any case, this was just an illustration of how things have deteriorated.
The bigger issues are the further deteriorating student-teacher ratios etc, which have been discussed before. Some teachers were expressing their frustration over admitting students who scored less than 5 marks in admission tests into higher classes (like 11th). There is also talk about the school being in the red about operating funds, which seems to drive these decisions.
Must have been a little oversight on their part.
The students already knew it would only be a 2-1/2 format since they had written 2-3 model exams before it. Even after doing those model exams if some students failed to realise it, then you need to look at the competence of those students as well.
@s_isale ... I am sorry, but are you reading only half the responses ? It did not happen in all classes, as the teachers announced it, so that even some of the students who were confused by looking at the circular were saved. But it was not announced in other classes. Are your relatives aware of everything that went on in the school, especially since they would have left right after the exam, and have not gone back in since ?
You are trying too hard my friend.
Just call up the head-of-section for senior girls, and ask if this happened, and how many students were affected. I do not know if and how many in the boys section are affected, will post it here once I have that information.
BTW, this discussion around the circular is taking away from the real issues. The circular issue is just an example of how things are being treated lightly these days, just as any discussion on student-teacher ratio is.
thank you
@deepb - Here is the link to the scanned copy.
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26.0;attach=3
@s_isale - Call up the school. End of story.
Here is the scanned copy, again !
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26.0;attach=3
Looks like your busy schedule on QL allows you only time to read some of the posts here ! The link was posted before.
And may be you are right. May be (some) circulars are worth ignoring or not getting at all !
@s_isale - You don't have to be Einstein to figure out that any website/forum will attain critical mass after some time. Until then, whoever starts it posts information on it
1) To keep it active
2) To show people what is being discussed (the range of topics).
3) To make others comfortable with discussing a subject which is in general difficult for people to discuss.
So yes, I am doing exactly that... and you can shoot me for that ! And I will do the same back to you when it has reached critical mass. Already people are beginning to comment on what they feel should be changed for the good of the school. And it is not as if these are any big secrets.
So go on with your efforts to discredit this effort, while I go on trying to see if active feedback can change the tide. Take my word for it, I will continue with this, and I am well aware that there will always be skeptics like you. But I see more people who care about the school, and want to see an MES of yester years. This is one such effort, others are even now trying in person.
Heck, when the head of vodafone was on QL defending his company, admitting mistakes and taking corrective steps, it is my right to dream on !
which circular? was this given to all the students?
As far as I know, none of the students who have taken the exam you mentioned has said anything about such a circular.
Good question. I suggest you ask them why only some announced it :) But be sure to ask why they see nothing wrong with the wrong circular !
now now now, some of the teachers announced it? thats funny. Were the rest of the teachers not aware of it in the school? you mean to say they announced it after the exam?
@deepb - You can see it now without logging into the forum. Looks like they had the forum permissions set wrong for guests trying to view attachments.
I'm not going to register on another forum to just see the attachment.
call up the school for what? When my own relatives have written the same exam you are talking about and they havent mentioned anything about it why should I call the school?
fixmes says this was only posted in the girls section? not in the boys section? IS the boys section under different management?
when they themselves have written the exam that you have mentioned on Friday, how come they never heard of it?
surprising? They study in MES not some other school.
fixmes, why don't you just post a scanned copy of this circular to prove your claim?
deepb you need to understand the real motive of fix b4 you understand the posts.
In the forum what fix mentions almost all the topics are started by the admin and the followup comments are also from the same person.
Need to appreciate the discussions that take place there.
@s_isale - Call up the school and ask if this happened. It is as simple as that. It did not happen in every class, as the teachers made it clear at the beginning of the exams in many classes, and some parents who relied on information from the CBSE website etc were prepared better.
Your relatives will hear about it from their friends (or friend's friends) when they go in to write the next exam, I assume.
there was no fiasco as you mentioned.
You seem to be interested in spreading half-truths rather than facts.
I have my own relatives studying there and at least 4 of them taking up the X exams, none of them have said anything about what you have mentioned.
I don't know the standard of education nowadays. When I was doing my 10th Board examinations, I remember being given the Question paper 15 minutes ahead of the answer sheets to read the instructions. If the school authorities issued a wrong circular, fine they are at fault.
But, clearly if the education level has gone so low, that 10th standard students are unable to comprehend basic instructions, there is something else to be worried about other than the school's circulars.
@s_isale
Yes, some of my posts are jokes, while all yours are perfect gems ;) And what about the rest of my posts that are NOT jokes ? I really don't have time to *assume* an air of self-deemed importance by spending 24x7 on QL, dumping my wisdom on every thread here. If that is the mark of someone's credibility, God save QLers !
It seems like they messed up on the circular (which is only human, just an honest mistake), but it is the attitude after that which shows what is wrong with the school/system. They did sow confusion, but pretends as if they did not ! If they tell parents "we made a mistake, but you should also have been careful", that is a whole another way of dealing with such a fiasco.
You can verify every bit of this with the school authorities.
In fact, why don't you try to strike an honest conversation with any teacher who has been with MES for more than 10 years whom you have any sort of personal relationship with, and see what they have to say about current state of the school, and its recent directions ? It would be really interesting to see what you will post after talking to them. A friend did it recently, and yes, tears were spilt.
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http://www.fixmes.com
@ deepb - LOL !
The fact is that students can get confused (only one out of many exams has a shorter duration), that is why teachers announce it in the classes (and even during transport, as some other schools did). But the bigger issue is the attitude of the school authorities as if they did nothing wrong about sending out a wrong circular (which is scanned and posted on the fixmes.com site).
It is the same attitude on everything.. "we have been doing this for 30+ years, so we know what is best" ! They seem to completely oblivious to the fact that the standards of the school have really deteriorated, and their response is as if people are just spreading baseless rumours !
And then there is people people like s_isale, who do not seem to have any first hand information of what is going on there, including the fact that even the few members of management who can see the writing on the wall and are/were keen about putting in efforts to salvage the situation are washing their hands of any hope of bringing positive change there.
The latest fiasco is that the KG section was to be moved to another building, there by freeing up classrooms for the other classes. Admissions were taken based on that calculation, and the new KG facility is now said to be no where near completion ! End result... portocabins being installed, and additional benches and desks in already crowded classes ! From what I heard, there will be 48 to 49 students in every division of class 5 in this new year. So instead of improving the student-teacher ratio, the school is going backwards :(
Anyone is welcome to verify this information with the school authorities !
It is just sad to see an uptight bunch of folks ruining an institution like this.
not only the board exams, even when the school conducts model exams they follow the same pattern and those model papers are prepared in house by the schools themselves.
Would they be interested in sowing confusion?
never heard this from any of the students that I know of.
some of your posts seem like a joke.
I remember Board examination papers having the time available written in bold on top of them. Why blame the school for the students who can't read basic instructions? Oh wait.... they could've taught them to read basic instructions.
@s_isale - Get your facts straight. Talk to the head of the senior girls section, and see the circular posted on the fixmes.com site. That scanned document is proof, for blind supporters like you !
You want to defend MES this bad, do it by being truthful. BTW, nice spin that MES pays the best salaries on all Indian schools now ! You are the only person in the world who seems to know this !
all rumours.
You seem to have no other job than to promote lies.
Its time this thread is flagged for rumour mongering.
It was announced in some classes, and not announced in others. Combined with the circular, this totally messed up one of the most important exams of their lives for many students :(
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And when the students arrive for their exam, they are not told when they have to be finished?
I mean it would be common sense to do that, and it actually is done that way in places that I know of.
What comes around, goes around....
Well... the school has done it again
Today was the Science theory exams for CBSE class X students, and in its infinite wisdom, MES sent out a circular saying the exam starts at 8am and ends at 11am (for a total duration of 3 hours). All exams so far had a 3 hours duration, so the students believed that this was also a 3 hour exam, as confirmed by the circular. The exam duration was only 2hours 30 minutes in reality, and even the students who previously knew that it was so based on earlier information fell for the wrong information in the circular. Many students expressed their joy at getting one hour each to answer Physics, Chemistry and Biology, but they had the shock of their life when the answer papers were snatched out of their hands at the end of two and half hours. On top of that, the first two parts (Physics and Chemistry) was generally tough, so most students had taken more time to answer those, and when they arrived at the relatively easier 3rd part (biology), their time was up !
A lot of tears have been shed at the school today, and the incompetent administration is now blaming parents for "not knowing better" or "not doing their own investigation" into examination timing. WTH ?
We hope someone there shows basic human decency by at least acknowledging the mistake, and take stern action on the erring parties, however higher in the hierarchy they may be !
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=26.0
Also, when you see something wrong (or something going from good to bad), I guess all religions (and common sense) say that you have to inform it in private first. If that does not work, then you try to use the "family" (people who can influence that person/entity). When even that does not work, you have to speak out in public.
You can look at this as hatred or true concern, it is your choice. We are quite sure on which one it is.
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Stealth -
Visit the website, it is not just me. Again, just because others did not start a forum, or went to the newspapers, does not mean others are not just as frustrated.
And it is not that me (and others) have not tried in person. What good does NOT hiding behind a name do ? At least is allows more people to express their opinion freely (by the way, nice QL account name, "stealth" ;) )
If you can see this as hatred towards MES, you obviously missed the point. And it is plain obvious you have not been to MES recently, or have not had much interaction with it off late. If you had, you would immediately understand where we are coming from !
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fixmes seems to be the only person who is concerned about MES.
IF you are really concerned about it, come out and say in the open. Not hiding behind some name.
You seem to have too much hatred towards MES.
If MES needs to raise the salaries of teachers to help maintain quality, it has to. After all, it is a "not-for-profit" organization (unlike many other schools), so "reasonable" raises should not be an issue.
Plus people are OK with shelling out money for everything else that has gone up in price in recent years (food, housing etc). What is the point is insisting that only the school tuition be kept the same ?
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I think people get their guard up the moment they see any institution being taken to task. While that itself is not a bad idea, one has to also consider the fact that certain changes/improvements can only be brought about by collective feedback and grassroots level collaboration, and forums like QL are great platforms for that.
That is the whole point, for people like s_isale !
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Voice your opinion, help make a difference
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fixmes hold on lemme check it out :P
Pajju - Check out my profile, that explains my connection to MES ;)
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@s_isale
You really need to get a life other than full time "stirring" on QL ;) Show me one step you have taken for the betterment of MES, otherwise you have no business in this thread.
I am beginning to suspect this QL only being is strongly related to MES, especially with the "barking up the wrong tree" comment. Is it your tree, how else do you explain that comment ?
When some things beg for "stirring", someone has got to do it. Don't act lame by trying to discredit the message by discrediting the messenger. People can see through that fairly easily these days.
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fixmes so r u working n MES ?
rizks when did you finish your studies at MES?
LOL Pajju....
cant help it my friend, GOD has made me Genious....lol
i dunt think so this thread is very informative , million time discussed abt MES , and one begger who studied MES , he used to say he is genious , ideal students never say they r genious :P
Pajju u one legged FROG ! :)
dont discusss ur filthy programmes here and hijack so informative thread....:)
Arien right now MES teachers pay is higher than what other Indian schools pay.
Generally in the GCC, it has become difficult to get good teachers from India. Many of them prefer working in India where payscales are generally good nowadays.
Rizks .. i only know abt ur genious , thats why :P so wats the programme today ?
Pajju, sorry i cant comment anything to you coz u r an illetrate trible person......:)
Rizks said Arien dont forget tat MES ...
Arien dont forget tat MES has given big big Genious students like ME.....:)
loooooooooool wat a joke ?
Arien but the school is i think still the reputed one among other asian schools if i am right ?
MES is the cheapest among the schools in terms of fee Rizkz.. :)
Arien dont forget tat MES has given big big Genious students like ME.....:)
isn't MES = Money Eating School ? :)
You pay peanuts and you get monkeys.... MES is one of the worst paymasters among the Indian schools.
The school which is paying the best , is runing short of 37 teachers for next academic year.
The standards of the teachers in the Indian schools in DOHA are very poor.. generally.
I was talkin to one of the leading school's head the other day.. he said,the Other GCC countries like OMan and Bahrain, they have liberal rules to bring in their families , so they bring their spouses too , they both earn and live.
Doha , you need 7000 as basic.. none of these teachers are paid more than 5k. So most of them prefer other countries, and the left over who dont make it to there only are available for DOHA..
so you are back again to keep the topic alive.
another of those stirrers in QL.
Academic performance in higher classes is also going bad now :(
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=23.0
Tadaaa... abso-freakin-lutely :)
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yes there is no limit for dreaming right...........
@s_isale -
Go ahead, be content with passing one or two comments on this thread also, just like all other threads on QL, mostly as a fun activity to spend time.
Some others are trying a bit more, and let them be ;) Your "invaluable" comments are so welcome !
In case you are surprised with more and more activity on the other forum, we believed from day one that this was just a matter of time.
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you are barking up the wrong tree.
More discussion..
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=19.0
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Yes, of course there is personal interest, it is the betterment of the school where my kid(s) and many others that are friends and relatives are going to.
If you look at the forum, initially all the posts were about issues/changes. When the managements attitude is the cause of a large majority of issues, how can we have any discussion without mentioning about their decisions ? They are the ones who were doing it a whole lot better earlier, and now seem to have dropped the ball on the quality of the school.
When the management turns their face away from anyone who raised issues to them (yes, I have tried, others I know have tried, and some members of management have tried), then what else can we talk about except how core decisions of the management like "not maintaining teacher to student ratio" are affecting the quality ?
In the very first post, it was made clear that this is not about bashing individuals, as we all know this is a collective responsibility issue. Only when asked "have you tried talking to them?" that other comments about management were made, about how they are not taking solid steps to improve the situation.
All major issues/changes that the school really needs have been put (in numbered fashion) on the forum. And this is based on feedback from other parents (a very small number) who we could reach out to (although they do not know a forum would be created with the feedback). Feedback from some teachers are also part of the issues raised.
At the very least, the existence of such a forum should be an eye-opener, or that is our firm belief. It does not matter if it does not have tons of people actively discussing issues, although the impact of such discussion would be great !
Finally, none of this is inside info. If you take a few days to befriend anyone at the school, you can hear about all these issues from practically anyone there. In fact, you don't have to befriend any one, just try talking about your suggestions to anyone and you will see the outpouring of issues !
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but some snippets of insider info that you put in here and there about management and stuff... its a big put off...
Seems like you might have some personal interests in all this...
If your interest is to FIX MES then you should focus less on how the management goes about their business and more on the changes that you would like to see...
Finally, something sensible, other than just discouraging any efforts for possible betterment of a situation. It would have made sense to question the issues raised, instead of the effort.
If it is a dream, and a waste of time, it is ours. Why bother participating in the thread only to discourage :)
This is the beginning.. no matter how small (or pointless, to some) the effort seems.
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GO ahead. Keep waiting.
When something happens really serious through your website then come back here and tell you were successful.
Till that time happens keep dreaming.
Go ahead. We all have our own priorities, and aspirations.
Do not "waste" your time on threads like these, which some people will NEVER understand. They probably will also never realize that QatarLiving once had only 1 member too.
Whether people take this up today, in one week or in one month or in many years, they know there is a central place for them to comment. That, in itself, serves the purpose. Someday, one person will feel the need for commenting, and another day, another person. It will build up, slowly at first, and faster later.
That is how the world works, and we are positive about that.
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there is much better things to do than all your crap talk
Actually, your "unhelpful" comment gives us more ideas. Since most people are materialistic, what if we offered a prize for people for being active on the forum ? How about complete tuition for one year for one student, or a good mobile phone (iPhone, Nokia E71, etc) ? :D
And the fact that people are not commenting truly shows how bad the situation has become ! That it is useless to comment, useless to try; which is the same attitude finally taken by even management members who wanted to make a difference (from both the new and the old generations).
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Everything that has happened was someone's fantasy/dream before they became realities ! ;)
This unhelpful attitude is not going to stop or even discourage people from trying, just because many people take the easy route on everything.
And thank you for bumping this topic again ;) Hopefully more people will see it that way !
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someones living in fantasy land
You noticed ;)
Others are also noticing, including people who are close to the school. Wish more people participated on the forum, only for the reason that people related to the school are noticing, and will notice even more as people post suggestions and issues.
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what's the point of people discussing this topic, when no one is gonna notice!!.......:S
@Stealth - Not exactly. The fact is that there is no actionable feedback mechanism. The solution will come when many others collectively voice their opinions.
Read the second reply on whether every school is screwed that way.
It is much easier to move my kid(s) to other schools, than building a new school ! And there are other schools that do it right, and MES used to be better.
But that is not the point, right ? It is to show to the authorities of the school that people care enough about this institution. At the very least, the next generation of management of the school should realize that things can be improved, and should be improved.
In some ways you are right. I am stirring the pot, because no one else seems to be doing it, and the pot is screaming for some stirring. We need more people to do the same. Sooner or later, it will have a positive impact !
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has veris deleted?
you seem to be interested in stirring the pot rather than trying to get a solution.
Every schools is screwed that way. Read the first reply.
Why dont you just set up a school and show others how to run it.
That would be easier than changing the mindset of others.
@legal_pad - Not sure where to start on this one :) Start doing the same to American and Philipine schools because they are corrupting the culture ;) How about Pakistani schools for being Taliban influenced (pun intended, no racism!), or generally being disruptive influences (there is a whole another thread here in QL on why MES is not allowing other nationalities, go figure...) !
Good to see some mild humour in the midst ;)
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It is a common practice in Doha to demolish buildings and roads, just bulldoze the school and build a different one, with a different name. The sound of having "Indian schools", it is totally lame and smelly.
It was equally shocking to see someone register on the forum, defend the school at times and raise issues at another time, and then deleted his posts and quit !
If all people know is how to quit and move their kids to better schools, MES is truly screwed !
The "complacency" is not just with the management, it seems like parents are exhibiting the same :(
Yes, a forum like
http://www.fixmes.com
cannot be non-anonymous for obvious reasons, but that should not prevent concerned parents from voicing their opinions there. Wish there were better yet practical ways of providing feedback to the school, but there seemed to be none (yes, talking to the authorities had not helped in any significant manner), and yet people are so shy about commenting on their experiences and concerns.
@ versi & fixmes,i think we're in unison about the fact that the standards of MES have definitely dropped from what they used to be,the current faculty(principal included) not being what it used to be...while we all made fun of "Mutley", he did a splendid job as principal...as with any institute/establishment,setting a high standard is one thing(something MES achieved in the past),maintaining that standard is a whole different story,as is obvious,that is something they haven't bothered about...the school is bursting @ the seams & i'm sure there's a long waiting list as well so the management has obviously gotten complacent but i think we can all agree,there is absolutely no place for complacency when it comes to education...truly sad state of affairs for what was once without doubt a very good school...
@verisi - Our effort is not at all to convey that MES is a bad school. If it was bad enough, I don't think we should have bothered to try any of this !
See this post on the forum
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=2.0
What we want to highlight is the gradual (and sometimes accelerated) deterioration of the school, because the administration is proud about the size, and somewhat about the marks.
Now if we take marks alone, that is a whole another story. Marks are driven by "canned notes" and "private tuitions". Many teachers make it a point to skim through lessons in regular classes, only to ensure that students come to them for "private tutoring". Students who needed private tutoring at MES do not feel the need for the same at other schools, because of how topics are covered in the class itself, and because of the personal attention teachers are able to afford (due to smaller student to teacher ratios).
But the management seems to have no plans at all to improve the student to teacher ratio. They rely on the greed of teachers to improve marks, and then trumpet that as an achievement. If you build a personal relationship with a few teachers who are even half honest, you will get the true picture of what MES had become off-late.
@ Versi,this seems like a discussion which can be amicable if done in person or degenerate into an argument if it continues as is,i've read & respect your previous posts & would like to leave it as is so i'm stepping back from this one but if i may, leave you with something to ponder?...CBSE is a step BELOW ICSE,it's not my doing or yours,that's just the way it is,the ranking is ICSE,CBSE & state syllabus in that order,so by default,an ICSE student has a higher standard than a CBSE or state syllabus student,please note,we're not referring to ANY schools here,Indian public ones or gulfie Indian ones,so unless you want to compare apples with oranges,it pointless comparing the two,what we can compare are two gulf CBSE schools,MES vs. another Indian school in another gulf country that i attended from the age of 3-14,now unless you had a similar experience which you haven't mentioned,would you agree that it'd be fair for me to compare since i have actually studied in BOTH the institutions in question?...your "harmless" statement clearly implies that the standard of english amongst kids passing out of good Indian schools isn't very high & is comparable to that of MES students today & that's just not true,the fact is,the standard of english among Indian public school students is FAR higher than that of MES today,for starters because the ICSE standard of english itself is higher than that of CBSE,it's not only an indication on the school mate,i hope you see my point,correct me if i'm wrong but again,having studied both systems,i think it's fair to say i am actually in a position to compare the two,unless my memory fails me,we didn't have in-depth Shakespeare to study in CBSE & i suffered with it in ICSE & english was always my favourite subject!...i apologize for comparing a gulf Indian school with an Indian public school,that wasn't my intention,a CBSE school CANNOT be compared with an ICSE one...so let's agree to disagree on this one fair enough?...btw,Sumit Sir taught me as well & when i joined MES it was still the old campus in Rayyan & it moved to Abu Hamour while i was there & i'm 100% mallu/malabari & very proud of it...
none
I agree that top marks is everything, but it isn't nothing either...
Even with its shortcomings, it still is a very good school...
Verisi -
Top marks does not equate to much in today's world. I know of multiple incidents where students who chose to use their own sentences in answers were awarded less marks than students who brain-dumped the "canned notes" supplied by teachers.
That is another aspect where other schools seem to do better. They strive to cultivate a level of independence in students in academics, instead of supplying canned notes and insisting that the students just follow suit.
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0
Marks does not mean well rounded individuals. But a well rounded education should result in higher marks in general.
did u hear that Sumit Sir passed away?
He had a heart attack
He used to be a boxer I think, pretty sad...
Gadarene, I assure you that my cousin's family and mine have nothing to do with our proficiency in the English language... none of them speak English fluently... to put it bluntly, we are hard core 'Malabaris'
I did not mean to use the term 'so called' in a derogatory manner... But if you could put aside your eagerness to announce to everyone that you have been to a public school and stop falling over yourself in defending it against an 'imaginary enemy', you would have understood that...
My original statement was,"The language skills of the students in MES today wouldn't be much better than that of kids passing out from good schools in India..." its a harmless statement...
However, your claim that any 'gulfie' school should not be compared with Indian public schools is arrogant and boorish... its ridiculous and not based on fact. MES performs extremely well academically and in sports. They have come fifth overall at a national level for CBSE schools and have consistently topped among the Gulf Schools.
And since you ask why I make that statement comparing myself, I have competed twice at the National level in India and I have fared well...
You are talking over your head about something you know nothing about. I am talking about MES a good 14 to 15 years back when I was just finishing school and you were still in your knickers...
Just because you couldn't settle in well at the school and because you seem to have a problem with Keralites, don't write it off entirely...
Finally, someone wants to defend the school, and blame it on the parents.
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=14.0
Good to see some discussion though !
I think you are mistaken. Even I have my kids studying there. Plus a lot of my relations are studying there itself.
Being a former student I also know how these things work.
Even I have had discussions with the management regarding the same. I have taken issues with teachers themselves regarding various issues and I have seen some action being taken to rectify at least some of the issues that I have raised. Even I have failed in some of the things that I fought hard for.
@s_isale -
Yes, I am able to move my kids to another school.
And yes, I have tried (along with others I know) to point out issues to multiple "active" members of management.
If you have read this thread carefully, me and others are reporting issues where members of management (and others in administrative positions) are giving up after losing hope for any sort of improvement. If talking to any one member of management changed things, we would not have this thread !
Most importantly, what you are suggesting is in many ways to be selfish, taking care of "my" kids alone. I am sorry that you do not see the "social impact" of attempting to improve the situation, for the sake of a large number of students and their parents.
I am trying to do what my meager self can attempt, given the circumstances. I can always take the short-cut, but there are larger issues that need to be addressed (that are way above "me").
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Gadarene that is the status of the school for the past 10-15 yrs. The cream of the English dept was long gone by the time you joined MES. They havent been able to find such a good talent again after that, the same way they are yet to find a dynamic Principal
@ Versi,i do agree with some points in your post & disagree with some others,so i don't see your point about "making up my mind" mate!...as for your & your cousin's proficiency in the english language,here's my take on it,if you come from a family that has a high/higher proficiency in the language,you'll speak it better than your contemporaries,school isn't the only factor shaping that...as for the old public schools in India,the very fact that you would choose to term them "so-called" indicates an obvious lack of knowledge on the subject,so just as you speak from experience,my grandfather went to school @ one of those so-called schools,after which my dad went to school there & then i had the privilege of going there albeit only for two years & God willing i'll send my kids there & FYI these "so-called" schools produce the leaders of our country be they in the sphere of sport,business,politics or art,to even compare such institutions to MES or any "gulfie" school is IMHO just plain sacrilage...
As for your claim about your language skills being better than/equivalent to kids from around India,i believe what you meant was,your skills were/are better than the kids you encountered,would that be fair? @ a billion plus people,you have to admit mate,there's a good chance you didn't encounter A LOT of kids!!!...anyways mate,don't want to argue this one,one thing i will agree with you is on the fact that the standards were indeed much higher in the years gone by than they are now,having said that,when i joined MES over a decade ago,it really felt like i was transported to some small town in Kerela having come straight from one of the "so called" public schools & another Gulf Indian school prior to that...opinions are based on experiences,so to each his own eh mate?...
Creating a public pressure group may not be that successful. Of course this point can be disagreed.
No one asked you to send your kids to MES. You took that option knowing how well the school was run. This is the line that the management is always going to take.
If you dont like the school there are 100's of others who are waiting to take admission to the school.
It would be better to have your discussions with the management with the opinions that you have got. I have seen it with my own eyes what can be done.
I know the effects that can be had if you can zero in on at least one of the active members of the management and convince them of the
The feeling was the same for a long time. Now try searching for anything related to MES on QL, and you will see why a focused forum is needed. QL is so big, it is becoming very difficult to find information, especially after it gets a bit old. And the longer the thread gets, it becomes even nastier.
Try contributing to the site, and see if it makes any difference. A "focused forum" sounds better than one "dead QL thread" any day. The life of a QL thread is just a few hours after the last comment,unlike a focused discussion forum.
This is just an effort to *try* to make a difference, and it is surprising that you are missing some obvious points :(
And the "part of management" comment didn't seem to make any sense. What exactly were you implying ? I am not in any management, just a parent.
Judging by my experience, there must be hundreds (if not thousands) of parents who are in the same boat. If we all stay as silent spectators, our kids pay the price, and an institution that has the potential for improvement bites the dust. Let us try to do what we can do.
Just remember that grass roots level *online* efforts were a big part of many recent world events, including getting Obama elected as the president of the US :)
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I dont think you are going to gain anything by creating a new website for the same thing. Unless of course if you are a part of the management..
A new discussion thread has been started at :
http://www.fixmes.com/forum/index.php?topic=14.0
that never happens in QL anyway.
I remember when we were in MES very few spoke their local language. Most of them used to speak in English itself and the English dept had really good staff Mr. Bhatt and Mr. Sumit come to mind
Well, can't blame the management folks for their English, they came to make a livelihood, and *many* were not "groomed" with the English for such gatherings ;) One can find similar examples at other schools too !
But the teachers and students have no excuses.
It would have made a lot of difference if this discussion happened on the purpose built forum for the same :(
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for minimum one year and learn from youngsters.
Its horrible scene at any MES gathering when the speakers talk about achievement in terrible accent
that too when media is present and especially when Chief Guest is Neil Cook
whereas young students(12th grade)are captivating, I am sure they are groomed by their parents and not teachers.
I call them BBC CCN generation
Well give English dept. to Native speakers, Japanese will never learn English from Asian
Their biggest PR disaster has been the new principal himself. Ask any of the students who has passed out from MES in the past 20 years everyone tells the same. But does the management care a hoot. I have had discussions with some of the management members regarding the same and I am surprised at how straitjacketed they are with some of their opinions be they old or new.
I remember those old times where they stuck on to one specific HOD even though he was worthless and their reason was always the same. I know many of the old timers will know who I am speaking about. Imagine 20 years later they still have the same mentality.
They have improved the infrastructure and some other stuffs but in general if they are not going to improve, the management can only blame themselves for the mess that they have created.
That is one of the biggest failures, the lack of a good principal like Mr Kunhi.
If you are close to the happenings, then you will probably have heard the "treatment" that was given to Mr Kunhi during his last years with MES by the same "older members".
History aside, the whole concern is about even the members who want to make a difference giving up due to the others who do not know better. From what is being reported, they are throwing their hands in the air and admitting that "nothing can be done/changed" and go about minding their own business, instead of having to go through the pressure from the nexus of old timers whenever any change for the better is suggested.
And it is not the management alone. This "older members" problem seems to exist deeply amongst the teachers also. Coupled with the tuition menace, it is one heck of a quagmire.
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I would also second fixmes comment on English. 15-20 yrs back the English was pretty good. They had a bunch of excellent English teachers as well.
Nowadays the standard of English or for that matter any subject is way below what it was some years back.
I dont know about the youth wing president not attending meetings, but I do know that there are a few members in the management who have been trying to make a difference.
It is the older members who are one part of the reason for this backwardness. Then there are a few lobbies who are only interested in maintaining their position by hook or crook.
They also have till now not yet got a principal who was at least on par with the calibre of B.K. Mohd Kunhi
Chances are remote... but hey, the earth is still round :D
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I think we might know each other... :-)
You've actually agreed to everything that I said while at the same time summarily dismissing me... :-)... make up your mind...
In any case... I can only speak from my own experience, my English and that of my cousin who studied with at MES was above par compared with pretty much any kid from the length and breadth of the country or GCC... even those from the so called 100 year old public schools...
I can also vouch for the fact that the language skills of MES students when I was studying was better than kids from any part of the country and at par with those from the metros...
But I can give you this much... I won't make a statement about the current situation because I don't know... if it is as bad as you put it... that is really bad...
English is one core issue. Class size is another. Attitude of teachers, especially individual attention (which is all related to class sizes) is another.
Somebody needs to understand that it is not necessarily great to bask in the glory of being the "largest". Per available reports, BPS grew by 75% in 2009 (in terms of total student strength), so this size thing will soon become irrelevant. End of the day, the "quality" alone will be talked about.
BTW, may God help these other schools which are also growing by leaps and bounds, and let them preserve their sanity by not diluting the student-teacher ratio and not lowering their standards on discipline.
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Yes, to "get the message across". Not stammer/stutter/collapse when asked to speak on anything. The same things that are expected routinely these days, whether it is a "group discussion" which is part of a job interview, or just a face-to-face interview itself.
Also, the comment by others was about "use of English becoming fashionable", and NOT use of "fashionable English". Huge difference between the two. Every other good Indian school insist on use of English between students, that is not a fad. It is a valid requirement, and a necessity of the times we live in.
Not sure how other nationals get judged/hired, but the people from the sub-continent have to face these realities time and again in their future. It is common knowledge that English skills are one reason why Indians are preferred over *some* of these nationalities, not only in this part of the world, but in other parts too.
And let us not forget at all, that English is just a part of the equation.
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I do agree English is a part of eduction and we like to perfect it ..but what I didnt agree was to focus only to english to improve the quality of education or system
well i read some where "fashionable english" .. and also language is a means to communicate and main important aspect is to get the message to the other person. When u talk with non english nationals.. spanish, chinese, italian ... I dont see anyone correcting them
Who gives a damn about accent ? What we are talking about is the ability to just express themselves or respond with basic grammar when asked a question.
A large party of personality is derived from the ability to converse properly, and that is severely lacking in the current environment at MES. That is the concern.
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Just a piece of advice ..Speaking in an american accent isnt that makes or build a personality or career.. what we lack in indian education system is creativity and imaginative skills..lack of abilty to express ourselves .. ask a kid to write a story or what he or she did during the day.. it would be hardly two to three liners.. I remember back in school where we used to study essays and letters for the exams ..which is spoon fed sytem which we need to come out of the box.. its qualities like motivation, public speaking, team player, problem soloving, enterprising ..that builds a personality and unfortunately they are not taught in the school
Of course there are more choices now. But not everyone can afford those. And the affordable ones (ala Ideal?) have their own fair share of problems.
More importantly, it only takes the collective will power of a small number of folks to improve this institution, but there is no focused voicing of opinion to make that happen. And that is what this humble effort is aiming to do.
Someone needs to tell them that without the ability to properly converse in English and without proper discipline, all they are churning out are "individuals destined to certain failure/embarassment in the future" (regardless of whether some get good marks, and the ones who get good marks can take care of themselves).
http://www.fixmes.com
as a former MES student,if only for two years (thankfully),my 2 cents,if i may...@ Versi,your point about English is a very valid one mate but one thing isn't clear to me..."The language skills of the students in MES today wouldn't be much better than that of kids passing out from good schools in India..."???,now i don't know which part of India you're referring to & since it's a big country,it'd be hard to generalize but i can think i can safely say that in ANY Indian metro or even big town,the standard of English in good English medium schools was & always will be FAR higher than MES (or any Gulf Indian schools) ever had or ever will have,the two main reasons being,ICSE english standard is a good few notches ABOVE the CBSE standard & the schools are not run by mallus so you don't have a prevalance of only one community instead these schools were started by the British over a century ago & are steeped in tradition & providing a high standard of education & managed by an elected board as opposed to a self-appointed one...
Having said that,i can safely say that the standard of English in MES is FAR lower than even the rest of the mideast,having gone to 2 Indian schools in a different GCC country for the 1st 14 years of my life,followed by 2 years of schooling in my hometown in India before joining MES,i can safely tell you,my first few days in MES felt like i was in a school in small-town Kerala,hardly anyone spoke english & those that did,not very well,can't blame them though,the standard of English even back then was pretty rubbish,can't imagine it getting any worse,furthermore,being mallu myself,i was viewed as a wannabe white guy for daring to converse in anything but malayalam...so Versi,as you rightly said,the academic skills have improved as the school has been around for a few years now & they've learnt how to churn out the results but as for English standards,i beg to differ mate,there never was any standard,not compared to other GCC Indian schools & certainly not even in the same league as those 100+ year old public schools in India,those guys can give white people a lesson in English let alone "gulfie" kids...A LOT definitely needs to be done but who's going to do it,a school run by a single sub-community is always @ a disadvantage in this respect as more often than not,the herd mentality persists & one member trying to make a difference will automatically make the others look bad so that's unlikely to happen...but at least one has a lot more options today than just the devil & the deep sea that one had some years ago...
@Stealth.. The latest report is that the youth wing president himself stopped going to meetings couple of months back, as he also realized that the historical powers will not allow any change in how things are done :(
The funny (or sad) thing is that more and more management committee members are sending their grandchildren to other schools ! "Let me stay at a hotel, because I don't want to fix my house" !
http://www.fixmes.com
That was the other major subject, can't imagine how I left it out in my response :(
The school is in a position to call the shots about all these issues, but they do not.
It is about time they stop taking more students just to show that they can and they are still in demand, without building adequate classrooms and recruiting more teachers (qualified ones, for some of them could really handle a bit of that).
Nobody is interested is "politics". But it cannot go unmentioned when it affects the lives of thousands of kids. And not everyone is evil, just that evil seems to prevail over the good.
Please register and voice your opinion at http://www.fixmes.com
Fixed the registration issue at http://www.fixmes.com
thanks... good night...
fine. for ur sake i've removed my comment, but frankly i really thought that was funny:) sorry couldnt help it hahahha
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
.
that's what... the third time... word play + family = not funny...
i am just kiddin dude. ur gettin all worked up for nothing.
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
your sense of humor is juvenile... I am afraid I have given you far far more credit that what you deserve...
spoken like a true 'Nido kid'...
oh but u boys were really an unruly lot! I think u guys deserved it:)
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
we had metal rulers in the boys section...
Even seen a teacher bust a kids ear drum with an old fashioned thappad... not intentional, just unfortunate...
I still remember getting hit on the knuckles with that wooden ruler and if i remeber correctly it had like a metal blade like thing on it:(
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
we didn't have too much emphasis on sports either but that has changed for the better...
I think we went overboard on discipline back when I was studying...
but it was a simpler and smaller world, everyone knew everyone else and what not...
Hey verz, u studied in MES? Me too:) I donno abt state of current MES students but I do remember that the girls wing used to have a lot less activities and exposure compared to the boys wing during our time. I also remeber that academics and discipline were given too much importance and lines like creative arts and sports were completely ignored. Also its a very MES mentality to mug everything up and not learn the practical aspects.
"Ali Baba and 40 thieves" are now "Ali Baba and 30 thieves" ; 10 were laid off.
I was taken in by your gentle persuasion fixmes and I tried to register on the site but i got the message...
"Sorry, registration is currently disabled. "
oooow... politics... I'd rather not comment, too close to home :-)
But yeah, while I was writing about language, the other topic in the back of my head was discipline
Again, back when we were studying, kids would get crucified for one quarter of what the kids these days get away without as much as a slap on the wrist...
Its also a generation gap...
the way things have changed in the last ten years with the internet and stuff is overwhelming...
Talk to the youth wing of MES see if they can do anything. Most of them have studied in this school. If they cant do much about it, I doubt anyone else can
Versi -
Your comment is very valid. There seems to be absolutely no attention to English as the primary medium of communication in the classrooms. And that causes significant issues for the students in later life. Marks alone will not get you anywhere these days. It can get your degrees on paper, but not the better job opportunities. Neither can marks help the individuals get appreciation and promotions in their careers.
The second aspect is discipline. There seems to be almost none these days, especially in the higher classes.
The reason that website/forum was started is that discussions on QL tend to disappear from view (and people's memory) really fast. Putting it all one place would really allow for some history to be built, which can by easily searched and commented on.
I heard recently that one enthusiastic member of the management committee took it upon himself to improve the quality of academics. But the other "historical" members felt that had this worked out well, the credit would go to one person and they would look like idiots, so they torpedoed the whole effort. It was funny to hear that the "circular" informing students about a special training session (by an eminent personality brought in from India) did not go out until the same day of the event ! So much is the "crabs in the same bucket" situation there (no crab escapes because the others pull them down!). This management committee member resigned from this position a few days back, is what we heard last on the topic. Looks like no one is really interested in the betterment of the standards.
Same crab situation with teachers also :( If one teacher learns that a student seeks after class tuition from another teacher for the same subject, that student is literally suffocated in the class. This whole "home-based" tuition system is another root cause for all the evil.
Overall, lots of issues. And many people here on QL still say it is the best school. Can't imagine how they cannot see how fast things are deteriorating !
Kids have some hope if the parents are diligent about speaking good English at home. Otherwise, it looks like a lot of people need to pray for a miracle !
...with registering on that other site...
But one obvious problem with MES now is English
Being an ex-student of MES, I can tell you that back when we were studying, we rarely talked in our mother tongues...
Even then the standard of English was average.
But today, the language skills of MES students has deteriorated to very poor.
When I passed out of MES and went to India to pursue my higher studies, one of the things that set the NRI students apart was confidence and language skills.
The language skills of the students in MES today wouldn't be much better than that of kids passing out from good schools in India... they are losing their competitive edge on that front although they've started comparing more favorably on the academic scale...
Improving language is not just important from an academic perspective. It improves employment opportunities once the kids pass out... it gives kids confidence at the work place... I don't think I need to emphasize the importance of good communication skills
Its not MES fault that there are more Keralites in Doha, nor can they help the fact that the management is Keralite... Its also unfortunate that there seems to be a preference among non-Keralite Indians to prefer one of the many other Indian schools in Doha
Improving children's English is not something that can be achieved overnight. But there is a negative trend that needs to be bucked...
They could start by trying to hire more teachers who are non-Keralite... pay more attention to the quality of English spoken by the teachers during the interview process. Talking in languages other than English has to be treated as a more serious discipline issue...
More focus on good English right from the junior classes... maybe even a deliberate effort to make the mix of classes as inter-state as possible...
More language focused extra-curricular activities like a literary festival... debates, extempore, spelling bees, games like JAM and WTGW, even Dumb Charades, crosswords etc. etc. etc... maybe even an inter-school festival... back when I was studying, literary events were not popular enough, kids have to be encouraged, more kids should be able to participate...
Good English has to become fashionable...
Looks like you missed the two that are doing things in a better way (except for their physical facilities), which are BPS and DPS.
In any case, we are looking for feedback from the parents on MES students who are on QL and beyond, at a single location: http://www.fixmes.com
Hopefully, people who call the shots can notice these, and take appropriate steps.
i shifted my children from ideal to shantiniketan to dmis and now i hav finalled settled them in MES.
of course there is lot of room for improvement in MES...
but as of now, it is the only best indian school in qatar.... believe me....