300% increase for Qatar Cool fees on Pearl

That is the entire issue of living at the Pearl.

VERY EXPENSIVE. Price of apartments are no problem but

the mandatory monthly costs are without question

extortionate. There is no way I would even consider a move there with that monthly expense. Sorry bu that First Qatar fee of 2688 QR for a 2 bedroom is a slap in the face to you. Any property under 200 sqm should be no more than 1200 QR. Hopefully someday you all can benefit from strata laws, set up your own management and

get reasonable fees for maintenance.

I receive from UDC a bill for the master community charge even if it was suppose to be include in our 150qr/m2 per years according to First Qatar. I fully understand that we have to pay to maintain our building and the island but do you think that this is exagerated. It's costing me per month for a 2 Br for the service charge only, (that doesn't include qatarcool karama ect). 2688 qr (for service charge of my building First Qatar) and 1290qr ( for master community charge UDC) total of 3978qr montly or 13100 US$ per year. For and island still in construction on wish they still put the AC at maximum while the door are open, I find it exagerated.

I'm curious of what is the services charges of the other developper UDC, Sabban, The Land???

It seems to have ended. Qatar Cool's fees are reasonable and First Qatar have handed over their apartments and did not charge the extortonate fees they were asking to connect basic services like water, power, telephone, sewage, etc to the building in exhange for early exchange of settlement.... They needed money to complete the building.

The next issue was either the developer or the Pearl attempted to change the Sales and Purchasing Agreement (SPA) just before the handover came. you had to sign this new SPA or they would not allow you to recieve your apartment. Under the "Amended Agreement" you basically signed over your bank account to the pearl by allowing them to claim any and all costs from you with no limitation and no recourse of action. I believe this was solved by a court case which a gutsy developer -- who was not my developer, First Qatar - who took them to court on behalf of their owners and won.

The whole purchasing experience was certainly not an enjoyable one but, now i have a tenant in there who enjoys living there, the hassles seem to have disappeared somewhat.

will his saga ever end?

I suggest that we gather at least 200 signatories and launch a Class Action Law Suite against Qatar Cool.

Also complain to "Consumer Protection Association".

HAve a look at that

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/938800

Great... more fees to look FWD to that we were yet again not told about. These fees have been around before we bought our apartment. Did our developer say anything when asked... OF COURSE NOT.

I'm currently looking at fees of 300 000.00QAR that i have to pay before i can move in.... I don't have that money and even if i did i would not give it to the people that are clearly ripping me off!!

I wil not pay a penny. As far as i'm concerned, i pray every night that the Pearl sinks and all my worries with it!! I was so excited to move into my very own first apartment. The thought of that place now leaves me feeling nothing but wanting to vomit every time i hear the name Pearl.

Thank you UDC/QC and other developers for shattering so many peoples dreams and positive outlook on your project. We now all look at your development feeling nothing but betrayal and resentment towards you!! Well done, you have made sure your project will be a massive failure due to treating your customers like dirt and trying to take even more money from us even though we've given you millions already. You've just cut off the hand that would've fed you!!!

This was mentioned. I had heard 1% but it could have increased.

This was posted last April, dunno if they have changed it from 1%:

http://www.onlineqatar.com/property/295-One-percent-registration-fee-for-property-purchases-in-Greater-Doha.htm

I had a call the other night from one of the other owners. Apparently we have a new and exciting fee waiting for all of us buyers that i am sure no one was informed of....a 2.5% municipal registration fee.

If you were informed, i am not how much.

Please note that this is as of yet unsubstantiated but looks like we will be in for a bill, on my apartment anyway, to the tune of about Qar 75000.00 on top of all the other fees.

Any thoughts?

This has officially made moving in a virtual impossibilty for me. Time to start packing...

"First Qatar denies incorrect allegations"

So FQ what is the correct allegations?

Kitecrazy i heard the same that they having major finacial difficulty so now they want their existing clients to finish their project.

You have to wonder if FQ are in financial trouble and having trouble with cashflow to finish the project.

I heard they might be and I think there is a strong case to think this. I have posted a link as to why this might make sence.

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/642946

I have a few questions for QC and all the developers:

Why is it that UDC and The Land charges +- 15 000 for all connection fees and other developers charge +- 120 000 just for QC connection fees?

QC, how is it cheaper to use QC when the minimum montly fee is 1 500? During summer my bill for AC, water and electricity is maximum 300. How the hec do you calculate that your service is cheap and that it is acceptable to charge your customers 1 500 minimum per month?

UDC, why do you think it's acceptable to charge +- 1 500 per month "master community" for a constuction site? Again, the owners on the pearl should have access to your accounts to see where this money is going and what we want to cut down on in order to reduce this rediculous amount.

Developers, how can you say we owe you +- 1 500 a month when we haven't formed our body corporate yet and decided on what we want to spend monthly on our own building? We want to decide how to spend our money and what we can do to make this as little as possible.

How can you be opening more shops on the Pearl when the existing ones have no customers? Oh, i know why, because i'm already paying for these shops and whatever else you feel like charging me for with all the above fees... Where do i sign to get my split of the profit?

"4. OWNERS’ RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS

4.1 GENERAL

(A) Every Owner and Co-Owners’ Association is obliged to comply with:

the provisions of this Declaration, its schedules, and all reasonable Rules

and Regulations passed by the Master Developer pursuant to it; and

any directive given by the Master Developer in enforcing the provisions of

this Declaration.

(B) Every Owner and Co-Owners’ Association will be required to enter into reasonable

agreement(s) with the Master Developer or its nominee(s) as the case may be for

the exclusive installation and servicing of the infrastructure for the provision of

information technology and communication services which shall be charged for in

accordance with the competitive and economic tariff of the Master Developer or its

nominee as the case may be and which shall not unreasonably exceed the tariff of

other providers of similar services in Qatar and to enter into a Cooling Services

Agreement with the operator of the district cooling plant for the exclusive supply of

chilled water for air-conditioning purposes."

This is stated in the Client Purchase Agreement Thank you msj for picking it up and thank you FQ for highlighting to us that you trying to rip us off... What it also states is that charges shall not be unreasonable and exceed the tariff of other providers (Kahramaa) in Qatar and to Enter into a district cooling agreement(which I have not done yet) with the operators of district coolin plant...

Good notice msj..Yes what cooling services agreement. I checked my contract for the thousand time and there is nothing stated in the SPA of cooling service agreement or charges. As usual First Qatar is trying to pull a fast one. I wonder when they sold the units to us of they thought we will take their money now and ripp them off even further later by throwing a contract at us.. Just shows their interest of their clients. Also in their thread they talking bout customer service? What customer service. FQ you should take ownership for you mistakeS and rectify it yourself don't think you clients are going to financially support your company for your mistakes. FQ is also saying that we as customers are liars in their thread how dare you..After taking our money and not giving me the apartment I bought as agreed as per the SPA of November 2008. I bought my Apartment in April last year and is still waiting for handover....If my apartment is not handed over by November 2009 I will terminate my contract as per my SPA (since FQ want to start with quoting the SPA)

I have been waiting to get this in writing for ages.

First Qatar has just absolved us of paying the cooling charges, I quote:

"The purchase agreements co-signed with our customers clearly states that the purchaser shall pay charges for air-conditioning installation and consumption as agreed on in the cooling services agreement."

We never signed the cooling services agreement and have never actually seen it. To be honest, i dont think it exists

This is the legal loophole i having been looking for, for the last 3 weeks.

Thanks First Qatar, expect a letter from my lawyer.

First Qatar have now started a Forum post justifying their actions and stating how professional they are.

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/642946

If First Qatar are so open and transparent and we are only paying air-con connections to our individual apartments, I would like to see a breakdown of their costs associated with the common areas and Qatar Cool's connection. I'm sure these areas are getting passed onto the owners. The contract clearly states that there are no owners associations until the building is handed over and a tenant moves in so I would like a breakdown as I'm not paying for these areas, I’m paying for my unit.

First Qatar do not give a hoot about their customers or they would be going public about these fees. Again they say that it is Qatar Cool’s fault – Qatar Cool saying the developer. Someone is obviously not telling the truth. First Qatar will try and get you a better deal if you are not happy----- of course we are not happy, who would be and what deal are they getting us!!

Sarah obviously works for First Qatar. No-one in their right mind would say it is OK that the promised maximum of QR50,000 in AC fees per unit is now over QR130,000. First Qatar’s nearly 1yr late in their delivery of this building and notices for new completion dates are coming out just days before the old completion dates – something which is clearly against the contract. You very rarely get an email response from them, they never return your calls and you say this is good customer service and give these guys a break!!!

The first acknowledgement by First Qatar about these fees is not a letter directly to their home owners, it is to a public forum trying to justify their actions. The same public forum that bought out this fee fiasco in the first place. Please, start acting professionally I’ll give them a break.

It is very easy to see that the FirstQatar statement was carefully worded by their lawyer. Specifically promotes facts in their favor yet disregards the tough answers everyone wishes to know. Again more legal evasiveness rather than coming clean in a normal, straight-forward transparent manner. Now we know what their version of "the client comes first" is - "let us abuse you, tell you what you only need to know to our liking, and if you dont like it? Too bad."

No doubt SarahA is connected to FirstQatar or another developer.

I find it highly disturbing that FQ would issue a statement here instead of contacting their clients directly.....FQ your lies will not catch us anymore. Sarah what you mean by your apartment is almost completed. I was told in August we can have inspection of our apartment for handover I am still waiting for FQ advice. I bet you next month they will advise us the Handover is delayed for another six months. Furthermore me like many other owners are paying interest on an apartment we don't have yet and then FQ want to charge us this insane costs for connection. FQ will not GET another cent from me unless the cost is justified. FQ say it is qatarcool. qatarcool is saying it is FQ. Sarah you make it sound like we got our apartment for free and it is ok for FQ to charge us whatever they want...I am sure you must be working for FQ.

More run around. In case the person from FirstQatar was not listening, QatarCool explicitly stated they DID NOT RAISE THEIR FEES. Also there have been statements here that people were quoted a maximum figure of much less than what First Qatar is charging now.

I love these companies that come out with these eloquent

BS statments that continue to evade the facts. You think we are stupid?? You continue to disrespect your customers with a lack of transparency and double speak.

So exactly when did QatarCool decide to increase its fees? "Service to the client comes first" would answer the specific concerns that are arising and not to continue to dance around them.

Do you work for them?

Why should anyone pay that over-exaggerated amount over district cooling?

Hey Delphy

Thanks for the info. Will most definately do so however a lot of peopel are out of town at the moment, including Pearl home owners. I would prefer to wait untill everyone is back as we will have so much more support then. Thanks for sharing though. Truly apprecaite it.

Dearest SarahA

So you are happy to pay the insane connection charges?

For your information we were told that the connection charges would be maximum 50 0000. (already a ludicrous amount) The last time we spoke to FQ(2 weeks ago)it was 150 000!! You might be happy with that but myself and the rest of the owners definately are not. And by the way, the project is already 10 months late... We are all paying interest to the bank in the meantime.

I don't care if their prices were better, i still spend 2,7million on my apartment, why should i pay another 150 000 that was NEVER communicated to me. You might have that money, i certainly don't!!

Who is to blame... FQ, UDC, Qatar cool?? I really don't care whos fault this is. Someone is ripping us off and i will not stand for it!! I just want this disgusting situation we are finding ourselves in fixed. Unfortunately for FQ they sold us the apartment and they now have to face the responsibility.

I also do not appreciate being lied to and therfore no longer trust the integrity of FQ. They are most welcome to prove me wrong.

And lastly, i wish i was one of the lucky owners whos projects are still years form being completed. At least then i would be able to cancel my contract due to the project being delayed too many times. I most definately no longer want to have any part of living in an apartment that i've paid millions for to just be ripped off day by day when they come up with more and more fees.

If i could cancel my contract now it will be the happiest day of my life!!

why should we blame the developer after signing a contract with them approving their conditions and getting a better deal in terms of price? i did buy an apartment from first qatar last year and my apartment is almost completed when most of the people i know got imaginary apartments still on the map..i am not sure i am dissatisfied with their service ! c'mon give those people some credit

CONTACT THIS PROGRAMME

Thank you, we are dealing with your email.

Guys why dont you take this issue to Middle East Business Report?

I submmited my complain aleardy, now your turn :)

Middle East Business Report is a weekly half-hour programme covering business issues from the region.

Contact the programme on [email protected]

Nima Abu-Wardeh

Middle East Business Report's presenter.

CONTACT THIS PROGRAMME:

http://www.bbcworldnews.com/Pages/ContactProgramme.aspx?id=260

First Qatar Real Estate Development Company is a reputable real estate company in the GCC market committed to providing the highest standard of professional service and complete transparency to its stakeholders. We are dedicated to the philosophy that “service to the client comes first”. Our goal is to focus on the needs and wants of our customers to ensure their best interest.

The allegations in this article include incorrect accusations that our company has been passing on air conditioning connection fees to investors.

The purchase agreements co-signed with our customers clearly states that the purchaser shall pay charges for air-conditioning installation and consumption as agreed on in the cooling services agreement. The installation fees subject to the increase are one time fees incurred on a pro rata basis for apartments and not on the building as a whole. This issue was recently brought into perspective now that Qatar Cool decided to increase its fees. This problem is not only facing First Qatar but hindering the status of all sub developers on the Pearl Island all abiding to the same conditions. It is important to note that First Qatar has no control over how Qatar cool manipulates its charges and calculate its fees. However, we are certainly willing to assist our clients in negotiating with Qatar Cool in an effort minimize its fees. We understand this is a very critical issue for our clients that needs to be addressed vigilantly and we are confident that we can effectively deal with it collectively with our clients and Qatar Cool. ,

Despite the current real estate slowdown and the hardship facing most developers, First Qatar remains one of the fastest and most reliable sub developers with completion construction of its project at the Peal Island at 85% to date.

Speed in construction, quality consistency, cost effectiveness, flexibility of payment all demonstrate First Qatar’s capability in exceeding the expectation of its customers.

First Qatar

I came across this thread http://www.qatarliving.com/node/638463 about somebody that want to write a story.

Newspaper on The Pearl problems

Chuckspeak's picture

By Chuckspeak on Mon, 03/08/2009 - 8:43pm

Dear All,

I have noticed many rather disgruntled people mentioning their woes on QL about issues they are having on properties they bought on the Pearl. I am currently doing an article for T he Peninsula about these issues (specifically dealing with the huge price hikes that are being expected). However, I really would like to get many people answering some questions directly. If anyone is willing to comment on this issue, please refer to the questions below - i think for the sake of making people feel more comfortable PM me so that you can express more freely. If it's possible for you guys to get any responses back asap, and I am hoping to get this article published quick. For those of you who do not mind having your names attached to comments, please tell me your name, your occupation - as this will give the story all the more credibility and a more personal touch. I am in the process of trying to get hold of the developers for comments on this.

1) Reasons for buying? Which developer are you with?

2) Were all prices discussed, agreed upon and signed beforehand?

3) Did you read through the whole contract before signing?

4) Was there mention there may well be extra costs?

5) How much more is this than one budgeted for?

6) How are you having to reassess things to be able to afford this?

7) Have you managed to talk to the developers?

8) Which developers are major problems?

Many thanks guys for your help. I hope that the issue of this not having been in the english language press is rectified in due course!

Nadia

there is a link with the arabian business article that you can forward email the article on to someone else. please post your comments and forward to -

[email protected]

Forward to Sabban and The Land , UDC as well.

Let them know what you think and let them know we as a group will get to the bottom of what is going on. Is it QatarCool or the developers or both that are fleecing their customers. I find it irreprehensible that none of the developers company chiefs have come forward as of yet. Now we all know how they are placing their customers concerns - in the rubbish. This is arrogant and irresponsible. Makes me feel like a piece of meat.

WELCOME TO DOOHAR THE LAND OF RIPOFF

I agree. After Ramadan more people will be back in Qatar and more international, regional and local news agencies will be here in Qatar to cover the various international conferences. No doubt they would love to file a story like this.

"International Investors Scammed".

You only need to see the reporting done on some of Dubai's shady developers to know there is interest in this piece. They have no problem naming and shaming. Look out First Qatar.

I think the horrendous publicity this has generated will suffice for now. It got into Arabian Business www.arabianbusiness.com but with more of the media now interested it may persuade someone to do something about it.

We are trying to find ways of legally approaching this without actually hiring one for now.

It is going to get very expensive, very quickly so until we have exhausted all our "free" resources we will not be engaging legal resources.

And guys and girls, if you have new info please keep updating this forum.

Thanks.

OK several things I heard happening on Dubai need to be clarified here.

Service charge being divided by the amount of occupied flats not number of flats resulting in sky high fees.

Locals not paying service charges OR utilities.

If you get to see the books make sure the numbers add up.

Over here and over there is usual for locals employed by the government (that's 98% of people in case you are wondering) NOT to pay for water or electricity.

I think it was JBR where they realised this was going on.

Be careful and good luck all.

Dear All,

I think it is obsurd that we have to pay the charges that First Qatar are asking for, I will not pay this as I was never informed of these charges, I have purchased a one bedroom in Porto Arabia as a long term investment and did not have the intention of flipping, I currently reside in Dubai and I dont know any good legal firms in Qatar, I would like the assistance of the members of this group in recommending a couple of good law firms in Doha, I think it will be best to go one lawyer as a group and have them represent us against the developers, my property was suppose to be delivered in Nov 2008, I did not get any compensation from the developer, looking forward to getting feedback from the members.

Many Thanks

Alpha-wolf, that is a scary concept but under the current circumstances not impossible.

With the way things stand and people refusing left and right to accept the fees. We could end up with a Ghost pearl...

The service charges paid by those poor souls that do occupy will never cover the administration of an entire building so you would end up with ammenities closed and even basic services suspended.

A rather sobering thought, i hope Qatar Cool is still monitoring this forum...and i cetainly hope all the developers have started....

Watch this space.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090801/ap_on_re_us/us_lonely_highrise

_______________________________________________________

"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

To get a true account of what is going on you need to speak to each of the developers and get their story as well and expose who is planning on passing capital connection charges to their home buyers.

Some developers are including the capital cost AC and other essential services building connections in the apartment cost (the way it should be for any apartment but particularly for an expensive apartment), but others like Sabban and First Qatar (who I'm with) are planning on charging these capital connection costs to their home owners.

First Qatar for example want to charge the individual home owners for all the capital costs associated with connecting the building, their project, to essential services like Qatar Cool, water and electricity, internet and cable TV, etc. They are saying these fees are not their responsibility as a developer.

How can they sell an apartment in a residential building and then come back and say...

"by the way, the price for your unit does not include the connection of the building to essential services so you owe us an extra few hundred thousand if you want your apartment."

Why would anyone want to buy an apartment in a building that is not connected to essential services and why should this be allowed to be an extra when constructing a home? Would any reasonable person expect these services to be connected to the building as an extra? I think not.

This is what you need to expose. This is the story. This is called extortion.

* Yes the fees on the Pearl seem to be high - how do they compare with other similar projects, eg Palm Jumeirah.

* Did Qatar Cool charge the developers more for capital cost connections to their service than originally quoted - Maybe but really this should only be problem for the developer not the home owner.

* But who are the developers that are trying to extract a few extra hundred thousand from their project's home owners and should they get away with it? - This is the story.

Start with First Qatar. The VP is Mr. Mohamed Mohasseb. Arabian Business tried, but they did not wish to comment.

As it happens I'm planning on doing a story for this for one of the English language newspapers here in Doha (The Peninsula) - if anyone would like to comment on this please PM as soon as possible (preferably by the end of today), and I will be bugging UDC/Qatar Cool for some information. Thanks

Yes after you take everything into consideration, to me it is a no-brainer not to purchase on the Pearl at this time. A large part of ownership is to maximize control over your own expenses. To be directly responsible for and the ability to personally access the services needed to run your home. This part of the equation is being run by your developers who not only wish to charge for these necessities but do it at a HUGE profit to themselves. Not until an owner gets more control over their property and there is more transparency of what fees are required and accounting should anyone purchase. I would like to directly see what the management part of the fees constitutes. It has become obvious that these necessities will not be run efficiently to the benefit of the end-user.

Still what has me most concerned is the fact that these numbers thrown around are the starting fees. Just think

a few years from now. There will likely be annual increases further increasing the anxiety of the owners.

No peace of mind. If no peace of mind then why move there??? As I said a no-brainer. Would not mind living at the Pearl but no chance under those circumstances. And my guess is a good number of people will feel the same.

Hi Aboucayenne

Thank you for your best wishes. Appreciated.

Gregturnbull, i couldn't agree with you more regarding the other fees we have to pay. These fees will be continuous and they ARE INSANE!!!

Below is an example of what we very likely will be facing:

I know that some of the developers have said that you don't pay the master community fee for the first 3 years. I agree with that. How can you be asked to pay for the grass, trees, streets, street lamps etc if it will still be a contruction site for at least the next 3 years? Other developers are already charging for this....How can they if it's not there? Also, do i get a share of the profit? Again, the cost for this based on a 200 SQM apartment could be round about 24 000 per year!! Insane.

The service charge is round about the same as above per year. Again, some developers said the service charge for the 1st year is free as the building first needs to establish a "body corporate". They will then look at all the costs decide what they want to keep and what they want to cut down on and come up with a number. Again, why should we pay the fisrt year service charge when we haven't established what this will be and what we are paying for... Insane!

Then of course comes the QC monthly fee of minimum 1,500 QAR...

So, if you look at all the above charges based on a 200 SQM apartment per year:

Master developer 24 000

Service Fees 24 000

QC 18 000

Total 66 000 per year

That is an extra 5,500 QAR you have to pay every month on top of your morgage... and this is based on a 200SQM apartment. I don't even want to think about the people that have bigger apartments. And remember, you still haven't paid your water and electricity, phone, TV or internet... OR any other fees these developers will come up with. Oh, and also, you still might have to pay a year in advance deposit of the above amounts...

I have never in my life seen or heard of such ludicrous fees anywhere in the world!! We have to stand together as home owners and demand to see what they are spending our money on. We can't allow them to take our money without knowing what for. Just telling us it's for "fees" is not good enough. I demand to see why!

I WILL REFUSE TO PAY THE MASTER COMMUNITY FEE AS THERE IS NOTHING TO PAY FOR BUT A CONSTRUCTION SITE. I WILL ALSO NOT PAY THE SERVICE FEE UNTILL A BODY CORPORATE HAS BEEN ESTABLISH AND I CAN DECIDE ALONG WITH MY FELLOW HOME OWNERS WHAT WE WANT TO SPEND.

I'm sick and tired of being ripped off in broad daylight. I just hope and pray my building is furhter delayed so that i can legally cancel my contract and walk away from this mess UDC and QC and anyone else responsible has created!!

Ok, ok, you got me...I did omit the fact that I had to pay 400QR for insurance (500,000QR liability + 100,000QR for personal content), but figured it was immaterial.

I wish I was a broker. I had to pay a broker one month's rent :( -- Those guys make a killing. But on a more serious note, I don't know of too many apartments that rent inclusive of utilities. Btw, it is Tower 4. Can't disclose too much more for the privacy of the tenant, you understand?

Either the person renting is an idiot. OR you are lying what number flat do they live in ? What tower what floor ?

I get the feeling you are an agent.

My 2BR unit is now off the market. 3BR will hit market later this year or early next (Tower 9B). But in terms of the other charges you referenced, all are factored.

As per my purchase agreement, I have no master community charges, common area charges are 65QR per s.m. which worked out to 19,700QR for 12 months + 3 months deposit. As mentioned previously, the QC connection charge was 15,000QR -- All told, I ended up paying 34,700QR on top of what I paid for the unit (1.3 Million). The other charges (cable, internet, utilities, A/C, etc...) are w/tenant. Rent is 16k.

In summary...

1,329,500 + 34,750 / 192,000 = 14%

Aboucayenne, are you currently letting your apartment then? I suppose you must be to know what your yield is.

Yield depends on the price you paid it for, the income, and the service charges. As none of us yet know exactly what the service charges will end up being - comprising, master community charge, your own management company charge for managing the tower, Qatar Cool monthly charge, Qatar Cool 'annual capacity' charge, electricity charge, cable TV charge, phone charge, and any other charge they might not have told us about yet - then it's hard to know exactly what yield it will give. Plus you have to add the cost of the CONNECTION charges for these services to the cost of your apartment, then you divide that by the net rental income, which is the rental income minus all the charges. Only then can you know your rental yield.

as I fully empathize and concur that folks have been taken to the proverbial cleaners. Having said that, I just wanted to clarify that not all developers are in the mix, based on my own experience w/UDC and the Land.

Like you, I initially bought to live then my job took me to Dubai. I am renting the place at a 14% rental yield -- An acceptable return in today's market, so no complaints from me. But, I do hope you and the others get to the bottom of this and get the answers that you need...All the best.

Dear Aboucayenne

Did you read my entire previous post? Did you read the bit where i said the selling price etc does not matter as the developer/seller is at fault here NOT the owner/buyer.

When we researched, it was not so much about the price as it was about the location, size and finishing. We looked at all the diffirent developers. In the end we chose the apartment we liked the most in terms of size and layout. We bought it to live in and therefore the layout was our driving force. Every individual will have their own reason for choosing their particular home.

In the end, we were lied to by the developer as they mentioned the costs but they stuffed up on the numbers!!!It is now triple the cost than when we bought a year ago.

In any case, read my previous post again. I'm not blaming the developers just because i have nothing better to do. I'm blaming them because they are trying to milk us dry.

I have invested in two apartments via UDC and Land and can confirm that my QC connection charges @ 15,000 so I am at a loss to understand how the other developers have drastically different stories. Is it possible that they did not include in the price of the initial sale? When you guys were researching the various developers just prior to purchase were there diferences in pricing? In other words, why did you select the developer that you selected at the time of purchase?

It is the ongoing charges that are the most important. These are the charges they will make real money out of. If everyone is as angry as they seem to be here, people are going to default on loans and hand unsaleable properties to the bank or back to UDC, or refuse to take handover of their apartments as the charges are too high to afford. That way, their income will be reduced to virtually nothing.

I have spent hours trying to get as much info from developers as i can. I have all the below info in writing from the developers except First Qatar. This is what i know:

The below is ONLY the QC connection fees, not monthly consumptions fees, not annual capacity fees, not maintenance fees, not service fees, not master community fees.. and the list NEVER ends...

If you have bought with UDC or The Land, you seem to be the only ones that are not being screwed by your developer.

UDC QC connection fees:

The connection fee is a one off payment as follows:

1 Bedroom 12 000 QAR

2 Bedroom 15 000 QAR

3 Bedroom 18 000 QAR

4 Bedroom 21 000 QAR

The Land QC connection fee:

It is a one time connection fee of 15 000 QAR. (that is all they said, they did not mention per bedroom)

Sabban Towers QC connection fee:

Sabban Towers are charging 396 QAR per SQM connection fee.

All they have done is copy and pasted their fees directly from the QC website.

What this means is that for a 200 SQM apartment you will be paying a connection fee of 79,200 ++ QAR!!!

First Qatar Connection Fee:

Surprise, surprise, still have no fees however when i asked them verbally 2 weeks ago it was 600 QAR per SQM.

That is 120 000 QAR for a 200 SQM apartment!! I have a feeling they will go with their Sabban tower mates and copy and paste from the QC website too.

The above is just to show the extremely difference between UDC/The Land costs and the rest of the developers/QC.

I will pay the UDC and The Land connection fees. I will not under any circomstances pay what QC, Sabban and First Qatar is dictating to me! How dare they try and take advantage of us when it is clear that other developers are not!!

I urge every single owner of the Pearl to tell their developer that they are only paying UDC and The Land connetion charges.

DO NOT allow QC, and other developers to screw you over. We have paid millions for our homes. The developers have made millions from us, how dare they think it is o.k. to take more!!

If the developers did not factor these costs into their selling price it is THEIR FAULT. If they stuffed up their budgets it is THEIR FAULT. If they did not finalize agreements with QC and estimated incorrectly, again... their problem, not ours. How dare they think we should pay for their mistakes!!!

Enough people, pay The Land and UDC fees. NOT A PENNY MORE!!!

Also be VERY carefull that they don't all of a sudden increase your service charges or any of the other million fees to try and make up for their mistakes somewhere else. Keep your eyes open.

Hey Gregturnbull

If you by chance have a contact at BBC, i'll be more than happy to be in touch whith them...

I will do anything and everything in my power to get the word out there of how The Pearl developers are trying to rip us off.

I know of a plan by the BBC to do a documentary on the project. If they heard some of the comments above, can you imagine how it would look!

I'm writing this in the hope that all of you will read the below and perhaps save your project.

The death of The Pearl:

I have one question to UDC, other developers and Qatar Cool.

Who can make or break your project?

The answer is simple…. your existing home owners, also better known as your CUSTOMER.

Does anyone know of any business in the world that is a success without customers? Who are the most valuable asset to any organization... their existing customers!

We are the ones that bring you new ones, free of charge!! We are also the ones that tell everyone we know, who will tell everyone they know etc etc NOT to ever be part of your organization.

Do people not understand the power of the Customers? They will literally make any organization a HUGE success or a MASSIVE failure.

UDC, Qatar Cool and all other developers, do you not realize that you are rapidly causing the death of your own project due to abusing your current home owners?

People already know world wide what you have done and it’s only been 2 weeks since your customers started telling them. You have created your own worst enemy by taking advantage of your biggest asset, us, your CUSTOMER.

I’ll leave you with these very wise words: “Look after your Customers and they will look after you”

msj i agree.On a serious note I find it strange that QC was quick to defend itself w.r.t. posting fees on site and paper..and I agree with you msj the Gulftimes was merely pasting a copy of QC statement on website...Come on Gulftimes that is not reporting. Why did GT not investigate and find out the facts i.e. contact investors,Developers and also clarify or ask QC to justify high costs. sorry if I repeat some of your points msj.

Everyone, the guy is obviously not getting it so please just ignore the posts, it is only detracting from the purpose of this forum.

Thanks,

An other South African person which don't like to be social. Ahime!!! Instead insulting the other guys please try to be happy and to be glad to partecipate to this forum, to be a part of this web site and be gentle with other people.

If you don't like to be part of a serious forum is better to cancelled your subscription from Qatar Living.

Guys maybe is not clear to you that this web site started as a simple game, weeks after weeks become a little little big and now we can consider it as a really forum site so everybody gave the contibution to grow up

so please don't spoil it with nonsense post.

Waiting also for you for a drink.........for a SOCIAL DRINK

Angelo

A little bit nervous our South African this morning; what happen? The hot weather give to you guys problems.

Be serious and accepted that this is a forum (where I register since several years ago) where everybody can write up and says what he feel but without insulted the others.

I answered to the question about the increase of cost and I give my explanation why I didn't accepted the offer from my bank manager.....that's all!!!

Please be social because this site is only for socialized persons.

The invitation for a drink is valid for you too; middle of August we will be there for a few days so hope to meet you guys.

Ciao and have a nice day

bral1960 please go play somewhere else because you annoying little brat who has nothing to add to this forum. If you understand our predicament you would know how serious it is but instead you think you can gloat on peoples misfortunes. Did they not have english schools in doha when you were here...don't look like it

There have been a few references to the article in the local newspaper, Gulf Times. To be honest i was hoping for much more...

They virtually reposted the QatarCool article related to the connection fees. And happily state that we will be charged nearly 100K for the connections to an apartment as if it is okay!!!

What is that all about!! Are we living in such a mad world?? As qatar expat put, the most important question we need answered now is when these fees where established...why is the newspaper not asking them? Why are they just accepting the very vague and positively avoidance orientated response that QC have given??

They also didnt even mention the usage fees!!

They are rediculously high as well. According to the QC article we are also paying about 2 or 3 times for administration and we are also paying for infrastructure.

How can we pay for infrastructure, do we then own it? Can we take the pipes and pumps away with us when we sell? Will we get a revenue stream from the investment in QC infrastructure??? These are the things i was hoping the press was going to ask and answer!!!

I am sorry, while i appreciate them printing the article is doesnt exactly bring accross an unbias point of veiw, more like a press release for QC.

We will have to keep trying, but right now, i am very disappointed.

Watch this space.

But dammit i have to say something....

Bral, you have nothing positive to add but an "i told you so"...so as Dune put it, go play somewhere else.

And as qatarexpat put it....go post somewhere else.

Watch this space.

I wonder if you guys could sell your stake....in the appartment to whoever wants to step in and take on the challenge/risk?

Because if Developers can let you sell off your part although at a loss there are 3 benefits:

1. Developers gets the finance (the new investor would not mind paying whatever fees as he gets the property at a good price from the 1st investor.

2. The 1st Investor can stem his loss and get out.

3. The new investor has a "chance" to make a profit....although it would be a big risk.....still there are investors who are willing to take such risks.

My rich rich Dune,

now you know what means SARCASTIC!!! Anyway for the while (mission of 1 years?!?!!?) I'm enyoying Singapore but my Company would me back soon in Doha where I have spent 7 wonderful years and where we have also a family business and where we are based; Abu Dhabi is only an investment for us.

Don't be impulsive and sometimes don't be angry if somebody play with the words. The Life is Beautiful is the title of a nice Italian Movie.

Hope to meet you and to drink together.

Ciao

Angelo

My poor poor bral1960...

Have you ever heard of the word SARCASTIC???? That is exactly what i was when i wrote back to you. Did you honestly think i was being serious??? You are even more stupid than i thought.

Do us all a favour, enjoy your time in Singapore and then go straight to Abu Dhabi where you can share your infinate wisdom. From what you wrote in your first post it seems that Doha is not the place for you.

Leave us in Doha to deal with this issues in Doha.

Delphy this post now has over 160 replies to it from people who have invested in Sabban Towers, First Qatar and the Land and many are saying the same thing in relation to these connection fees and their dealings with their developers on this issue.

They were told one fee by the developer which is consistently around QR50,000 but now this fee is over QR120,000. I was told this information as well. What you posted on QL is basically a direct copy and paste of Qatar Cool's press release to the Gulf Times. Good reporting would get a view from the developers and/or some of the investors to ensure that the story was a reflection of what is truely going on. I only see Qatar Cool in this release.

You're right, someone did not have their facts straight, but I certainly don't think it was Camelme.

You are welcome anytime to ask for advice. Don't forget that you live in Qatar and not in Europe or US where everything is very clear and trasparent. Take care man for next time.

Ciao

Angelo

but this is a case where I think Allah was on my side and it didn't happen. I'll be looking for a place to retire in outside the US, but it will not be Qatar. I need to be somewhere where there is a history of transparency in marketing property to non-citizens without screwing them over and a legal system that will insure the rights of the buyer. Clearly, Qatar isn't there yet but I hope for all your sakes it will turn out okay.

I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM

This whole scenario just makes me so angry.

If it is not Qatar Cool's fault for the fees than it is the developers.

I've gone through my contract, I also had a lawyer go through it and in his opinion I should not have to pay this outrageous connection fee or any other capital cost connection fee, but he advised me that he saw quite a bit of this in Dubai before the government regulatory bodies came out. He said that in the early days of Dubai's property market some developers would simply pass on these building connection fees to the apartment owners as they had not budgeted for these connection fees, they were more than anticipated or they saw they had the investors over a barrel with no consumer protection and realized it was a quick way to make some easy revenue. Unfortunately in most cases the investors had to pay up as they had few other options.

I, and my lawyer, read the contract and it says nothing about these building connection fees, only the connection fees to my unit which in the contract are payable directly to the service providers after it is handed over. My developer now says it will take 3 weeks for them to compile a full list of the connection fees that the owners need to pay to take possession of the unit. You would expect them to already have this information available as the apartment is due to be handed over in Nov of this year, already 12 months late. Why should it take so long and where is the transparency? These sorts of underhanded real estate dealings should not be allowed to continue.

Is there a government agency in Qatar that will arbitrate on real estate and investment matters? Who can you turn too in Qatar for help without lengthy, and expensive, court proceedings in this case?

I'm angry. Enough of the blame game, I want some answers and I want them in writing.

".... will just walk away and cut my losses and take it as a very expensive lesson learned "

very expensive indeed :(

but hey, life must go on.

i am wondering what would pearl look like say 5 years from now.... babylonic??

WITH ANGER.

I can only imagine how totally devastated investors must feel.

I have a feeling that in the end this may very well boil down to the developers NOT knowing how much Qatar Cool were going to charge so did an estimate.

Qatar cool can then legitimately say that they didn't increase their prices as they never released them in the first place.

The prices that Qatar Cool is charging are ridiculous there is no other way too describe them. I have been told that they are trying to recoup the CAPITAL cost of the project in the first year hence the high rates.

Now there is a more sinister theory. It could be that UDC and ALL the other developers KNEW the real cost of the Qatar cooling and deliberately misled investors.

UDC and others would have known that a connection fee of 130,000 Rials would have been totally unacceptable and they never would have sold any apartments.

Now I am not invested but if I were you guys I would try and find out EXACTLY when these charges were released.

IF they were released BUT suppressed, then I think you have a pretty good case to argue as you were lied to.

If on the other hand the prices were only released recently then there should be a concerted campaign to force Qatar Cool to reduce the prices and for them to operate like a mature western company and pay off the capital costs over a 10-20 year period.

Sadly though I for some if your deposits are LESS than the connection fee then I would be inclined to walk away painful as that would be. You really don't want to throw good money after bad, and this fiasco will hit prices.

Good luck everyone and please for everyone else saying "told you so" go post on a topic for the children.

Hey Jackmohan

Thanks for making me laugh... i think we can all do with a bit of a laugh at this stage. Cheers mate:)

Pinelands, if only it was diamonds and gold they were using... at least we'll have something to sell and try and make a bit of cash to pay all the bills...

Just wondering if this thingy has 4 wheels and an engine?

For whatever this QatarCool is going to deliver...cause at QR 129,000 its definately higher than the cost of my car!!!

Cool Air costlier than a Car :-(

Dune I think the real reason why they say three weeks but will not say is because their MANAGEMENT is on vacation. So we as customers to them have no value and must just wait...Also why wait so long to come clean and say what the hell is going on with this insane costs...When I went to their office they told me not to believe rumours but also could not set my mind at ease and tell me the real costs.Furthermore they have four weeks for the cutt off to advise that our Apartments will be delayed for handover so we need to be careful that they don't use the QC issue as an excuse.

I know exactly how stressed and worried you are I myself already lost thousands of QR with this Apartment and seriously I think I will just walk away and cut my losses and take it as a very expensive lesson learned. I will atleast not have to worry about an AC that will blow diamonds not air since it is so expensive, Telephone lines made of gold and water and electricity bill that is 50% the amount of my mortgage

Dear Cynbob

Thank you for your kind post. It is truly appreciated.

To answer your question, yes, a few of us have consulted with a lawyer. They are going through the contracts as we speak.

To the other readers:

I would like to encourage all of you to please go and see your developer in person to get an answer from them regarding all the fees. A phone call just aint gonna cut it. You need to show them you mean business. Get it in writing as their words mean nothing unless it is on paper.

Our developer after being pressed for answers has now informed us that apparently they will give us the costs in 3 weeks... I can't help to wonder why they need so much time. I would like to think that they need this time to make sure they give their customers what they promised them.... Unfortunately i have no faith left in them or QC. I truly hope they prove me wrong...

As hurt, angry and emmotionally drained that i am at this stage, i still want to believe that the people responsible for this mess will realise what they have done. They will see the HUGE financial NEGATIVE implications for their future business. They will understand that the most important investors/customers they have, are the existing ones. We are the ones that will make or break their reputation. Unfortunatly for everyone, they are trying to abuse us and now nobody will win. We are all facing a loose/loose situation instead of a win/win. Do you not understand the power of existing owners/cutomers? Without customers you have nothing!! Wake up, fix your mess and perhaps you might still have a chance!! Give us a reason to believe in you again.

I am calm enough to be rational mate...and i was generalizing about a few other posters, not you.

To answer your question, if my developer knew about the costs when i got the original figure why would they give me a thumbsuck number,less than half what it it going to be, on an item that i queried at least 7 or 8 times before i signed the contract?

If they knew it was going to cost 100K plus, why didnt they tell me or add it into the cost of the place?

Why will QC not tell us when the costs where fixed?

They are dogding that question left and right?

So i am sorry Tallg, i am trying to remain calm, but i am afraid QC is taking a chance and my developer is probably complicit but that doesnt make it okay.

Indigo, very well put.

Appreciate your post.

Watch this space.

msj

No one's claiming you made it up. Try to remain calm in what is obviously an emotive situation. My point was that QC are claiming one thing, while developers are claiming another.

The implication from QC is that the costs have been fixed ever since the contract with developer was signed - i.e. for at least as long as you have known about the original figure for connection.

I just read the explanation given by Qatar Cool and the justification why district cooling is more beneficial than conventional air conditioning. I am an expert in air conditioning and I fully agree with Qatar Cool comments.

In nut shell district cooling will

- consume less energy for the same amount of cooling than conventional air conditioning

- Less Carbon emission

But one simple question. How this benefit is transferred to the customers? If Qatar Cool consumes lesser energy to produce cooling compared to conventional air-con (Split or window), why the charges are so much higher? Logically it shall cost lesser than using normal air-con. What is the break even of the initial investment (which the customer will spend) compared to using conventional cooling systems?

I challenge any official from Qatar cool to give a logical explanation and I am sure they can not. The answer is simple, greed and simple method to recover Qatar cool investment in infrastructure at the shortest period possible at the expense of consumers. My pray with all the souls got trapped with UDC and Qatar cool.

I am going to create a generic post that i can copy and paste telling people to go and read the rest of the forum, just for people like you...i posted that information a yesterday.

There is no rumor mongering going on here. Only some misinformed people such as yourself getting involved in a conversation that has been going on for a week.

Have the QatarCool fees been established and not changed as they say? Possibly, but when? Yesterday? Last week? Last Month?

First Qatar have informed me that they have had their QatarCool costs finalized 2 months ago.

Our developer quoted us a maximum of Qar 50,000.00 connection fees based on estimates provided by QatarCool a couple of years ago, that has now more than doubled...hence the title of this post, Tallg!

Now who is bullsh*tting me? QatarCool or First Qatar? I dont know, but i certainly intend finding out!!

Come on people, do you think we would be going to all this effort if we knew about these fees all along??

Be logical. THis has massive financial implications for most of us, some of you bright sparks come here and try and make it sound like we are making this sh*t up.

FFS....

Watch this space.

Who knows what the real truth is. At the moment my developer is saying it is nothing to do with them talk to Qatar Cool and Qatar Cool is saying talk to your developer.

All I know is this, as it stands at the moment we will have to pay out a substancial amount of money and seemingly no-one is responsible for this. Not QC and not the developer.

That's not really the point. This thread is accusing QC of substantially increasing the originally agreed price. But QC are claiming that the price has never changed, and it's the developers who are passing on costs to the clients, which the clients weren't expecting.

What's the real truth?

Their article states the benefits of Qatar Cool include the following

"Lower operation and maintenance cost over conventional systems."

The yearly running costs for a 200sqm apartment is QR16,920 (QR7,920 consumption and QR750 per month X 12 months). Per month this is QR1,410 just for cooling. Even running all my AC's in my villa at the height of summer I do not get an electricity bill for QR1,410.

If I can run my AC's and light up my large villa for less money where are the lower costs.

[Jul - 26 - 2009]

Qatar Cool Charges on The Pearl Qatar

http://www.qatarcool.com/newsroom/popupnews.cfm?newsId=51¤tyear=2009

It has come to our attention that there are some questions about Qatar Cool's charges for the chilled water supply via District Cooling on The Pearl Qatar. Therefore, we wish to clarify the following:

DISTRICT COOLING AND ITS BENEFITS:

District cooling is a utility that provides chilled water from centralized plants through a pipe distribution network to multiple buildings. The chilled water is mainly used for air conditioning purposes. Such technology has been known to provide a balanced synergy between the challenges of Energy, Environment, and Economy.

Energy and Environment wise, the system is designed to save 40 to 60% of the power required compared to conventional air conditioning systems. The energy savings translate to lower power generation requirements; hence, lower CO2, NOx, and Other harmful gas emissions providing for a green environment.

Economic benefits compared to conventional air conditioning systems, the following are generally recognized:

Reduction of initial capital investment and elimination of future capital upgrades to the building or tower owner. The capital investment in this case includes civil, mechanical, and electrical infrastructure to support conventional systems. It also includes finance and administrative costs to make available such infrastructure and to carry out such works. It also includes all upgrades for the life of the contract.

Lower operation and maintenance cost over conventional systems.

DISTRICT COOLING CONTRACT STRUCTURE

Qatar Cool is a private utility company which utilizes the district cooling business model which is based on long term payback. Our contracts are usually 20 years in term. Our returns are in line with other utilities.

Qatar Cool's business model is based on agreements with tower owners or developers to provide chilled water from central plants via a pipe distribution network. The agreement basic structure is usually as follows:

Contract Capacity: The capacity is the required chilled water "quantity" to handle the air conditioning load for the entire tower or premise. The developer dictates the required capacity in this case and Qatar Cool makes available such capacity through the central plants and a dedicated network to the premises. The capacity is measured by Tons of Refrigeration (TR), which is equal to 12,000 BTU per hour.

Inside the premises, Qatar Cool installs what is called an Energy Transfer Station (ETS), where the chilled water is supplied from the central plant to one side (primary side). On the secondary side (inside the tower) the developer distributes the capacity to individual units per the design requirements.

Qatar Cool and the developers enter into a long term agreement, usually for 20 years, to guarantee the proper supply of chilled water to the primary side of the ETS at the agreed capacity.

The fees between Qatar Cool and Each developer are set in the agreement as follows:

Connection Fee: QR1,800 to QR2,000 per TR (based on the year of execution of the agreement). This fee covers the cost of installed equipment in the premises. This is a one-time payment from the developer to Qatar Cool.

Capacity Fee: This is a two-part fee:

One-Time Capacity Fee: Currently set at QR5,500 per TR. This fee covers part of the infrastructure to bring the chilled water to the premises. Similar to the Connection Fees, this is a one-time payment from the developer to Qatar Cool.

Annual Capacity Fee: QR720 per TR per year. This is an ongoing fee over the life of the contract payable once per year and covers the operation, maintenance, upgrades, capital investment, insurance, and other administrative costs required for operating the district cooling plant. This fee is varied according to CGPI, and is payable by the developer or transferred to the unit owners by the developer.

Consumption Fee: Currently set at QR0.206 per TR-HR. This fee is based on the actual usage of the chilled water and is billed monthly based on the meter reading. This fee is based on the cost of the power, water, and water treatment. This fee may change if the cost of the listed utilities is increased or decreased.

Deposit: as any other utility, Qatar Cool requires a 3-month refundable deposit for the Annual Capacity and Consumption Fees. This will be refunded at the end of the term in case of no default in payment.

Qatar Cool enters into contracts with the developers for the above, then, usually, the developer divides the cost of the one-time payments, or part thereof, to the unit owners or includes them in the price of the individual units as per the Individual Sale and Purchase Agreement (SPA) between developer and unit owners. The end user is then responsible for the recurring costs afterwards, being the Annual Capacity and Consumption Fees.

The above fees have always been the same and have not been modified by Qatar Cool since they were established.

Historically, Qatar Cool has only entered into agreements with individual tower owners (developers); however, since The Pearl Qatar is considered a free-hold zone, Qatar Cool is currently considering entering into agreements with the end users. The agreements will be structured to cover the recurring fees. In particular:

Annual Capacity Fees: QR720 per TR per year

Consumption Fees: QR 0.206 per TR-HR (based on usage)

Meter Maintenance Fee: QR 50 per month

Administrative Fee: QR 10 per month

Activation Fee: QR350 (one time)

Deposit: Depending on size of unit

At this stage, Qatar Cool is only contracted with the developers. Qatar Cool does not establish agreements with the unit owners until the unit is handed over. The contract capacity for the individual units is usually dictated by the developer and includes an allocation for the common areas and shared facilities.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO THE INDIVIDUAL UNIT OWNERS?

Based on the facts above, below is an example for illustration purposes only of what Qatar Cool believes the charges modes for one 200 m2 unit may be:

1. According to the agreement between Qatar Cool and the developer, the following will be paid:

Unit Area: 200 square meter.

Capacity: Approximately 11 TR

This capacity in our estimate includes an allocation for common and shared area cooling requirements - The developer must establish this

One-Time Charges to be paid by the Developer (excluding deposit): QR82,500

Calculated as follows: [Connection Fees * Capacity + One Time Capacity Fee * Capacity] or [2,000 * 11 + 5,500 * 11 = 82,500]

Presumably, the above charges were included as part of the total cost of the tower construction. Please note that the charges passed from the developer to the unit owner are governed by the Individual Sales and Purchase Agreement between them. Qatar Cool does not interfere between the developers and its purchasers. Each Developer elects to establish his/her profits and agreements with the unit purchasers on their own.

2. If Qatar Cool and the Unit Owners enter in cooling agreements, then the estimated recurring charges may be as follows:

Unit Area: 200 square meter

Cooling Capacity: Assume the Same as Above: 11 TR

This capacity in our estimate includes an allocation for common and shared area cooling requirements  The developer must establish this

Annual Capacity Charge: QR7,920 per year

Calculated as follows: [Annual Capacity Fee * Capacity] [720 * 11 = 7,920]

Monthly Consumption and Administrative Charges: Approximately QR700 to QR750 per month

Averaged over 12 months and assuming year-round occupancy

Calculated as follows: [(Consumption Fee * Annual Estimated Full Load Hours * Capacity)/12 Months + Meter Maintenance + Admin Fee] or [(0.206*3,500*11)/12 + 50 + 10 = 721]

Refundable Deposit: QR10,000

We always strive to bring the most reliable and most efficient chilled water to our end users and we look forward to better serving everybody.

We have nothing more to add and individual inquiries should be addressed to the relevant Party in the SPA, which is the developer.

Here is the link to the Arabian Business Story

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/563081-company-denies-hiking-air-con-charges-at-pearl

I urge everyone to read this and leave a comment.

Anyone got a reaction to the Gulf Times article where QC says the fees have never changed - http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=305672&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16 - and the Arabian Business Article where it's claimed it's the developers who are passing on the costs.

I suggest that if you have facts and figures to prove that QC is lying, you stop bickering amongst yourselves and write a joint letter to Gulf Times and Arabian Business in response to the articles.

publicity of this issue is increasing, lead story on a major regional website - http://www.arabianbusiness.com/

Well, u are right, go head buddy :)

Truly, I am sorry for all of the stress you all must be feeling. Have you all thought of jointly hiring a good lawyer?

Sincerely, good luck to you all.

Who can say that this is fair, right or justifiable? If I pay these absurd fees for Qatar Cool's connection, I will now have more equity in my air-conditioning than what I put into my home. This is just wrong.

If my AC connection is now worth more than the deposit I put into my home in the first place I have to seriously consider just walking away from that investment and calling my deposit a loss. Really, am I just throwing good money after bad to remain in the Pearl and pay these fees? It certainly seems that way.

Where in the world would you have an AC connection fee costing more than your down payment on a property and then have a company try to justify this cost as fair? Where else do you finish a property and then hand the investors a bill for QR200,000 for connection fees to have essential services fitted to the building, their project, and call it justified? What did I pay all that money for in the first place?

Do these developers, UDC and Qatar Cool not know the damage they are doing to their brands and their future projects and stages? Already on Google if you type in Qatar Cool this forum post is on the first page. The damage is already beginning!!

My apology. QC assumption can't be true. Why would we pay for common & shared area cooling requirement?!this should be an obligation on the developer.

Things just don't seem to add up!

well, i won't rant here anyway. I rather wait for the final word from the developer, then fight back.

@camelme - Stop making rumours and check the news paper.

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=305672&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

Air-conditioning charges have not been modified: Qatar Cool

Qatar Cool has distanced itself from a controversy surrounding air-conditioning charges being levied by developers on property owners on The Pearl Qatar.

“The fees have always been the same and have not been modified since they were established,” a spokesperson for Qatar Cool said.

The issue became contentious after end users began to complain that the amount demanded by the developers for the service provided by Qatar Cool was exorbitant.

A reader who contacted Gulf Times said the developer had told him that he would be charged about QR140,000 instead of about QR50,000, which was earlier given as the fee for the district cooling service.

Responding to the complaints, which were also discussed on social networking site qatarliving.com, the spokesperson said: “Our business model is based on agreements with tower owners or developers to provide chilled water from central plants via a pipe distribution network.”

The fees between Qatar Cool and each developer are set in the agreement, based on major points like Connection Fee of QR1,800 to QR2,000 per TR (tons of refrigeration), capacity fee (a two-part fee) comprising a one-time fee, currently set at QR5,500 per TR. Similar to the connection fees, this is a one-time payment from the developer to Qatar Cool.

There is also an annual capacity fee of QR720 per TR per year. This is an ongoing fee over the life of the contract payable once per year and covers the operation, maintenance, upgrades, capital investment, insurance and other administrative costs required for operating the district cooling plant. This fee is payable by the developer or transferred to the unit owners by the developer.

The consumption fee is currently set at QR0.206 per TR-HR. This fee is based on the actual usage of the chilled water and is billed monthly based on the meter reading.

The charges also include a three-month refundable deposit for the annual capacity and consumption fees.

“Qatar Cool enters into contracts with the developers for the above, then, usually, the developer divides the cost of the one-time payments, or part thereof, to the unit owners or includes them in the price of the individual units as per the Individual Sale and Purchase Agreement (SPA) between the developer and unit owners. The end user is then responsible for the recurring costs afterwards, being the annual capacity and consumption fees.”

The spokesperson said the fees “have always been the same and have not been modified by Qatar Cool since they were established.”

As an example he said Qatar Cool charges for one 200 m2 unit may be QR82,500 (one-time charges to be paid by the developer excluding deposit.)

According to the spokesperson, Qatar Cool is considering entering into agreements with the end users, since The Pearl Qatar is considered a free-hold zone.

“At this stage, Qatar Cool is only contracted with the developers. Qatar Cool does not establish agreements with the unit owners until the unit is handed over.”

The spokesperson said: “We always strive to bring the most reliable and most efficient chilled water to our end users and we look forward to better serving everybody.”

Qatar Cool has posted detailed information about its charges on The Pearl Qatar on its website.

Mate,

This has come straight from the horses mouth, i didnt make this up or assume anything.

That was a cut and paste from the QC website.

Now you may sit back in the comfortable knowlegde of what you pay in Dubai but unfortunately these "connection" fees are based on capacity estimates and who do you think is doing the estimates? Possibly QatarCool? The people who posted that information.

Try reading a little more before shooting from the hip.

Watch this space.

The assumption can't be true!Our 190 square meter apartment in JBR (Dubai) is given a capacity of 3.5 TR. I'm the 2nd tenant, therefore i hadn't paid the connection fee. we only pay the annual fees to the district cooling (which is also not cheap, but way cheaper than what is assumed by msj).

Genesis, i suggested to other posters here who have had a go at us for being stupid to read the rest of the forum before having that go, i will make the same suggestion to you.

Please take note of the first paragraph of my post, "QatarCool Speaks":

"I forwarded them the link to this forum and requested a meeting. I received the following back: a link to their website, www.qatarcool.com and a note telling me to view the "news highlights" and no mention of my meeting request.

For those who are not going to read the article i will give you a quick summary."

You are obviously one of those people who isnt going to bother reading the full article...if you did, you wouldnt make rediculous statements like you have above.

Lastly you can sit with your head in the sand and hope for the best...i am going to do something about it.

I can only hope that the hard yards we are putting in will possibly benefit you as well.

You might then thank us for it.

Watch this space

One thing for certain - this issue will certianly pull the plug on potential buyers at the Pearl.

Im sure many took it for granted that A/C connection is part of the purchase price as it is in nearly every other practical country on the planet. But sometimes practicality and common-sense is not part of the equation here. We also likely trusted the people we were dealing with as they had much at stake and thought they would never be stupid enough to sacrifice their reputations but sadly they are digging their graves by this very fact. Now we all know that trust is a very scarce virtue at the Pearl. There was only one way to do this and that is put everything up front and out in the open. At least estimated connection fees should have been provided. They obviously knew they could charge anything they want and surely stuck it up all our behinds with a smile. Who would of thought QC would take advantage of their status and charge an amount unimaginable for this one service connection. And remember this is only the beginning. They have free reign to screw with the monthly recurring fee at their choosing. Now surely who would be stupid enough to purchase at the Pearl now, especially with the sub-developers?

Dear Bral1960

Congratulations!!!! How lucky you were to be told all the information ahead of time and to have been given a choice to make a decision.

The rest us were obviously extremly stupid as none of us bothered to ask any questions.... All of us were blind folded when we sighned our contracts and handed our money to them with a smile on our face!! Thank you soooo much for your words of wisdom.....

If only we had your intelligence, we would never be in this situation.....

I will contact you next time when i make a decision to buy another property. You seem to know it all!!!

Dear Genenis

Three things i would like to say to you:

1.) MSJ got those prices and figures straight off the QC website.... He did not suck it out of his thumb... So perhaps you need to go onto the QC website and see for yourself

2.)You are obviously one of those people sitting on your couch waiting for your developer to hopefully make all of this right and make it go away.... That is your choice, as for the rest of us we will fight this all the way

3) I'm really sorry that you feel that all of this is a "useless rant". You are entitled to your opinion however for the rest of us, who are dealing with the reality of it all, it is a way to share our extremely scary and emmotional termoil at this stage, so please let us be. Thank you.

Two years ago when a Pearl Apartment was offered to me by Bank I asked to the management to explain to me and to write a statement letter with all the expenses needed to pay in the future before enter in the apartment............they advised me about many issues included the AC! Why now people surprised about it? The final price pratically is almost 200% more of the original!!! Then we decided for Al Raha Beach Development in Abu Dhabi! Cheaper of Pearl and it is in ABU DHABI!!!

Nothing to compare with Doha!

Angelo

with all due respect, all your calculations are wrong. How did you assumed that the capacity is 11TR! A 200 Square meter apartment can never exceed a 4TR in capacity.

...I'd rather wait for our developer negotiation with QC , than waste my time in this useless rant.

I thought about buying here for a while, the old housing allowance mortgage argument but when I looked at from a purely business point of view the money didn't stack up. Too many cons and too many variables. Legal system, visas etc. Reading all this makes me realise I could have made a rash decision. As they tell us we are not citizens, so make your money and get out.... Some people think the house prices will bounce bank I'm the next 5 years for the people who have lost money I hope so but I doubt it

Yup I brought in Qatar but not in the Pearl but another "high profile" investment here.

OK so rewind back to when I and others arrived in 2005, 2006. The Asian Games was on it's way, Oil prices were going up and Qatar seemed to be developing into "THE" place to be in the Gulf (if you ignore Dubai)

So I and others on this forum brought into this vision, a vision continually pumped up by a complicity press and even more complicit Western economic experts.

Everyone thought, and at the time I agreed, that Qatar had a solid future ahead of it.

Most of us came from Western Countries and thought naively that we were dealing with people on the same sort of terms as we would in our home countries. That trust has now turned out to have been fatally misjudged.

Fast forward a couple of years and I and others began to see cracks in the façade, my prestigious building turned out to be a badly finished piece of rubbish that was a fraction of the anticipated size and to my mind VASTLY over priced. I sold at the right time and made money.

I was VERY lucky and if you go back through this forum you can see that I went from positive to negative very quickly as I realised the true state of the local economy and what the future really did hold for Qatar. At the time I was laughed down, ignored and in one case actually banned from another on-line forum for trying to warn people about the dangers.

I do not gloat now, HONEST people are losing money including friends, it makes me very angry now to see just how bad things have turned out, I certainly did not expect such a rapid explosion of the bubble, I expected it would be a slower more controlled deflation. I thought prices and rents would level out.

I was wrong.

I brought in good faith, I like others on this forum thought we would live in the property and use our housing allowances to pay the mortgage, flipping was not the reason I brought the property. We were SOLD on the vision of Qatar.

No one has the right to come on this forum and accuse people of being naive, you have to remember if you arrived at a certain time in Qatar it really did seem in Qatar that the sky was the limit.

Where does anyone go from here ?

There are too many unknowns, on the Pearl in phase one there are already 2 towers that have been abandoned. I think both owned by the 1st Qatar. And that is phase one. What will be next ? Has anyone been offered or seen any adverts for NEW property for sale on the Pearl. What happened to Venice in Qatar?

These high charges not only destroy honest hard-working peoples investments it also makes it completely impossible to sell any more property on the Pearl.

Who would buy off plan when you are facing a charge of 120,000 Rials just to stay cool ?

In the past I would ask the question "doesn't UDC or the people in charge know the harm they are doing"

I know the answer now, it's clearly NO.

They seem to be intent on doing long term harm to themselves, US and the country by short term greed and stupidity.

In the past I would have held out hope for a different outcome sadly though I have been here long enough to know there is only one outcome and it won't be in OUR or the Countries favour.

Dune,

I think They will have to try harder to get an extra $ out from U! I bet No one can accept this to happen. If we loss this ground, we better seat N rest assure during the delivery of the door key, will attach with a whole list of hidden bills / costs being sky high.

The price of QR397 /m2 is still on the high side as the compare to QR50K (insane amount)as for my unit.Anyway is still not confirmed N might change before I wake in the next morning, hope sabban will send me this breaking news.

So far.. I only get to know Genesis and Smirk from this forum which is from sabban. Hope to get in touch with them cos we might be reading the same sale contract.

We're very much concern to the all unreasonable hidden costs which was not clearly specify during the signing of contract, I do believe the sub developers do know that there acts will receive back fire from the exisiting purchasers and scare off other fresh investors. Many of us may have only 1 or 2 units on hand but the sub-developers and UDC still keeping the reminding unsold units of the block(s)or empty plots, they might loss more before the end of the game. Just post a question WHO wish to accept failure investment, Can the end users? Can the developers? Can the Shareholders?

Thankyou once again.

I agree with you Dune we as buyers should stand up and fight these crazy charges.. I been on Developers case entire week regarding these alleged charges, however all they say is that they are having meetings with QC about the charges.

MSJ What time are you going to Ministry of Trade I would like to go aswell.

Thanks again for your contribution and your valid points.

However i am sure you have seen in previous posts that i am most certainly not a speculator so in that regard i do agree with your comments about the longterm prospects, things may look up in the future if they all get their collective acts together and realise what damage they are doing.

But...and there is always a but....that does not change the fact that i will not allow myself to be ripped off by UDC or anyone else for that matter.

To counter your statement, defending UDC, please see my above post "QatarCool Speaks"...if they think that charging people up to and beyond QAR 100,000.00 for connections to an essential service is protecting their vested interest then they have some very strange financial advisors...

I can assure you that had I known, i would never have bought or agreed to pay these rediculous fees.

Dear ICB

We are with First Qatar and they also told us way back then, when we bought, that our QC connection charges will be maximum 50 000QAR... (already an insane amount)

Now however they are trying to charge us 150 000!!!(this is still apparently being discussed so we are waiting in anticipation)

A friend of mine is with Sabban and she said that she spoke to them today and the cost for QC was 397 per SQM...

To everyone else:

Again as mentioned so many times, i'm sick of being ripped off. We all paid hard earned cash and we all did our research before handing it over. AT NO TIME were we ever informed of these insane additional charges. As intelligent human beings none of us would've bought if we were fully informed from the beginning. Instead we were lied to and deceived.

A couple of us on this forum are working very hard on a daily basis to get the message out there and meeting people to try and fight this.

I do however have a question. Are you one of those just sitting on your coach waiting for other people to make this go away (it won't) OR are you out there with us trying to make things better for your own future? Remember, strength in numbers!! Get out there!!

but keep your head up. Don't let the doomsayers get you down. Misery loves company and the thought of others falling down gets them off in some perverse way. I also don't believe UDC is at the root of the problem, as they are a Qatari company with a vested interest in seeing the project succeed. The other developers also have alot at stake but may not be Qatari-based companies. I believe Sabban is Saudi-based. Another is Kuwait-based, and so on...So there may be a temptation to maximize margins and run. As you said, time will tell.

If you were a speculator looking at flipping it ahead of the handover, then you have reason to worry. If you were a long-term investor or someone looking to build equity whilst working in Qatar and unwilling to compromise on lifestyle then you are sitting well from my vantage point. It is all about perspectives...

"I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite." -- G.K. Chesterton

WELL I WILL SAY IT GADARENE PI&&OFF. MSJ WAT WEET 'N MOL VAN KAAS. Gadarene it is clear that people that did not buy at the pearl will be critical.Like MSJ my wife and I bought at the Pearl as an investment and our first home to live in since we will be here for a while. Furthermore If you don't know the contents of the forum don't comment. I am not sure how you can comment if you don't even know what is stated in the contracts or even seen an apartment at the pearl or even know where the pearl is. Oh sorry are you one of the guys who are critical of the Pearl Project and envy the owners but want all rights bestowed on you to also roam around on a weekend at the boardwalk of the Pearl and experience our dream taking shape.

I would love to move into my apartment at the Pearl since it is a wonderful place to stay but no way am I going to pay these exponancial additional charges

Camelme,Dune,Msj and the rest who have been very informative on this thread...Thank you

Hi Aboucayenne,

I missed your post, i assume you bought with UDC?

I spoke to their sales people today and they confirmed that they would be charging QAR 15000 for a 2 bedroom.

However, your argument that it is because they included the connection fees in the price of their apartments cannot be true as the other developers have informed me that they were apparently notified of the charges only 2 months ago as the connection charges were apparently only finalized 2 months ago.

It is more likely that your charges are less in the UDC tower because UDC owns a controlling stake in Qatar Cool.

Also with regards to the pricing, when i bought, UDC and The Land pricing was almost exactly the same at around 16500/sqm.

Lastly, it is great to see someone positive about the project but i do not think it is going to work once these excessive charges are known to potential buyers.

Now the developer that i have bought from is quoting me between 500 to 600 riyals per sqm for all connection fees, not just QatarCool but Kahramaa as well...this equates to nearly Qar150 000.00 for my place.

Time will tell what it all means...

for your kind words of support Gadarene...

The responses that i would like to write to you will get me banned from Qatarliving so i will try and write something constructive....

If the Pearl Qatar was created for the mega wealthy then why did they build studio and 1 bedroom apartments?

Besides that the mega-wealthy didnt get that way by letting themselves get ripped off...

My wife and i bought our place as our first home together, we met and were married in the middle east.

The financial aspects of buying this place, as well as the emotional ones are huge for us, hence we are finding this entire situation incredibly stressful as well as more than a little scary...

So in the future, Gadarene, think, before dispensing your words of wisdom or least do us all the courtesy of reading what has been mentioned before in the discussion...

And to everyone who is not in our shoes, i certainly hope for your sakes, that you never will be.

Good luck. The only chance you have is if you all stick together. You forgot when you bought this country is not for us as we are continually reminded. No citizenship, no fair legal system, very little fair treatment.

Stick together and then they have to make a business decision. Piss everyone off and hope it doesn't affect future developments or go for a long term relationship and reputation.

Aviduser I really am surprised at you having bought here. All your previous posts seemed very well informed and logical.....

well to all the pearl apartment owners cribbing on here,didn't you read the fine print before signing & handing over your million plus riyals to these guys?? And if there was no fine print,didn't you ask why? a contract ALWAYS has fine print,but shouldn't you lot that can afford a million plus riyals for a (as qatarisun aptly put) a pigeonhole know that? didn't you ask if & what additional costs there'd be? now i'm not saying they're justified or anything,just that it's a known fact that UDC & their cronies are truly only interested in the kind of people who wouldn't see/question/bother about these 'little extras' added on to the bill 'cos "my accountant deals with that kind of stuff"...unlike freehold properties in the UAE which is so much more real,Pearl Qatar is for the hoity-toity bunch,who don't/needn't worry about pleb issues like A/C connection charges or whatever else these con artists have added on to the bill...want a cheap apartment with no hidden costs,go buy one in Al-Sadd,you'll get a lot more for your hard earned money,want the 'prestige' of a Pearl address,foot the bill for it,A/C,community & whatever else...

PetroPrince

You are close to being correct with your summary.

The only expense you have missed is the annual capacity charge...this will be 7,920 per year.

Keep in mind that this is only for the privilege of having the service connected. Your usage is over and above that...

New information today, apparently QatarCool is refusing to discuss this matter with even the developers.

Doesnt seem like much point in little old me even trying again...but i will....

The developers are claiming that they have only known about these fees for about 2 months. I would love QC to verify when they informed the developers.

Then we will have a better idea as to who is trying to rip us off...

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place....our developer tells us to talk to QatarCool and QatarCool tells us to talk to our developer.

Get the feeling no one wants to take responsibility for this mess and we, as the purchasers, are left with our pants around our ankles....

But tomorrow is another day and we are off to see the Ministry of Business and Trade who, we have been told, acts as the consumer protection agency for Qatar...

Watch this space...

the disparity in connection fees between the main developer and the other developers may have been factored in the price. For example, when I was researching, I noted that UDC was charging 14,000 per sq. m. and the Land was charging 10,000 per sq. m. --- This savings on the cost of the unit was probably due to the quality of the material used and the hidden fees you are now referencing above.

btw, I am pretty sure that Gulf Times is owned by the same group of folks that own UDC and Qatar Cool so I am not sure about hte objectivity there. I do respect these business men though and believe the Pearl will be a fantastic product in the end. I too am an owner of several units in the Pearl, having received one recently and am slated to get the other later this year. My Qatarcool connection fee was 15,000 (2BR). I find it hard to believe that they will be in the 130K range...

The sub-developer for my apartment is sabban. I was told by them that initally tha the cooling cost is abt QR.50k via thier email, till lately having meeting with the sale mgr. informing me that they're still not accepting the "unreasonable high installation cost" which means the appartment are very unlikely to be ready for handover on their latest revised date on 12 Sept.09. Have any of U being invited for the inital handover inspection since the beginning of Feb. 09?

Thanks eveyone for good contributing of findings and sharing of views towards this forum.

Thank you for sharing with details. Could you please list the fees and monthly charges in simpler manner? from what i understood that they want us pay (i have similar size for your apt),

- Connection fee: 82,500.

- Monthly Consumption and Administrative Charges: 700- 750.

- Refundable Deposit: 10,000.

Am I right?

Now all the managers of The Land real estae developers are in panick mode. They wanted to save money and hence compromised drastically on the quality and work ethics. They were not fair to the work. Now the reality is sinking in! They are now aware of the poor quality of work that they have already executed. Now even their staffs are scared. So the managers are not even being able to retain the staff. Now they are all afraid of the kalaboos!

Unbelieveable abuse of its service at the Pearl. I would never buy an apartment there and open myself up to this vulnerablility. I thought district cooling was more efficient and supposed to save everyone money by its use? And remember this is only the beginning. Fees will undoubtendly be further raised and further abused in the future.

I finally found a contact for a QatarCool employee.

I forwarded them the link to this forum and requested a meeting. I received the following back: a link to their website, www.qatarcool.com and a note telling me to view the "news highlights" and no mention of my meeting request.

For those who are not going to read the article i will give you a quick summary.

They have basically answered all the questions posted here and absolved themselves of all responsibility claiming that the fees, which i will list later, have not changed since they have been established....when were they established? No one knows.

So, did our developers always know and have included them in our purchase prices and are now trying to charge us again? Possible, but its also possible that QC established those fees last week.....

Now, here is what it is going to cost to connect and run a 2 bedroom apartment of 200SQM, incidently the size of my place.

Connection Fees:

Unit Area: 200 square meter.

Capacity: Approximately 11 TR

This capacity in our estimate includes an allocation for common and shared area cooling requirements - The developer must establish this

One-Time Charges to be paid by the Developer (excluding deposit): QR82,500

Calculated as follows: [Connection Fees * Capacity + One Time Capacity Fee * Capacity] or [2,000 * 11 + 5,500 * 11 = 82,500]

Running Costs:

Unit Area: 200 square meter

Cooling Capacity: Assume the Same as Above: 11 TR

This capacity in our estimate includes an allocation for common and shared area cooling requirements  The developer must establish this

Annual Capacity Charge: QR7,920 per year

Calculated as follows: [Annual Capacity Fee * Capacity] [720 * 11 = 7,920]

Monthly Consumption and Administrative Charges: Approximately QR700 to QR750 per month

Averaged over 12 months and assuming year-round occupancy

Calculated as follows: [(Consumption Fee * Annual Estimated Full Load Hours * Capacity)/12 Months + Meter Maintenance + Admin Fee] or [(0.206*3,500*11)/12 + 50 + 10 = 721]

Refundable Deposit: QR10,000

Many of you will notice that they say the connection fees are to be charged to the developer, they then go on to say that the developers then generally split these fees between the owners, so it becomes our problem again.

(Please check the full article for the explanation of the abbreviations etc in the above)

They finish off by saying this:

"We have nothing more to add and individual inquiries should be addressed to the relevant Party in the SPA, which is the developer."

Watch this space...i will not leave it here...QAR1500 per month for cooling charges only, we still have to pay electricity and water...they are nuts!!!!

Look forward to your comments.

I found this article informative .

Of course this article is from UAE, but may give us some ideas.

http://www.gulfnews.com/PropertyWeekly/News/10314392.html

The most important and regrettable fact is this situation does not bode well for the future.

Lets face it, this is truly a UDC issue as UDC has majority interest 51% of QatarCool.

If UDC is doing this now, no question they will abuse their position in the future whenever they want cash.

New fees will be thought up at their whim and demands placed upon the unit owners. Just think of the possibilies, they are endless. Waste, maintenance, communications, management, cleaning, security, special services. All controlled by UDC. No doubt this was all planned at the inception of the Pearl.

Making money goes well and far beyond the profit of land sale alone. Why own on the Pearl when anxiety and stress goes along with that ownership?? Its not worth it at any price.

its too bad considering the recent deteriorating situatiin thatDC GM Fayed Khatib does not come out in person to expplain QC position. This fact alone shows the integrity of this individual.

Any GM worth his weight would have made a public atatement by now. More indication that QC is hiding behind the curtain and evading. Some would call it arrogance. Hopefully someone from management side - UDC , QC or the developers willcome out

There was an agreement between the "sub" developers and QC confirming cost of connection on completion. QC has since increased the cost by up to 450%. Now I know for sure that Sabban are fighting them every step of the way so that thier clients do have to pick up the cost.

I was thinking about the Qatar Cool fee fluctuations and wondering why the different developers seem to be getting different rates from Qatar Cool and why they are not dealing with them collectively to get one standard rate for all - power to the people and the more people you represent the bigger the bargaining power and media interest, etc, etc. One post says Sabban Towers' rate is QR400sqm, First Qatar is QR600sqm and we know that UDC units are substantially lower in cost.

My theory is the individual developers are negotiating with Qatar Cool so that the QC building connection cost, which should be theirs as it is an essential service connection, is incorporated and spread across our individual unit installation fees leaving them to pay nothing.

Sabban has more units than FQ and thus the cost is shared wider and their cost lower. UDC are the master developer and own Qatar Cool so absorbed this installation cost as a developer - which is how it should be done. It would explain why in Dubai where Tabreed, which is Qatar Cool's partner, operate they have a standard pricing structure close to what UDC owners paid, but investors of units within the independent developers on the Pearl are getting charged more.

Just a theory.

i just realised you have to enable private messages by ticking the check box.

my settings are now edited to permit private messages.

waiting for ur message

And I imagine are based on QDC revaluing their assets even in this market.

Stop and think what is going on here, what they are doing and what they are saying. Do you honestly think it adds up ?

Of course it doesn't.

As for 40 retail units the story tells you all you need to know. UDC HAS TO START THEIR OWN BUSINESS to buy the franchises for all these stores.

NO independent retailer would set up there as they know they would never make money. It's an outdoor retail space where it's too hot to go outside for 4-6 months a year.

I really feel for people involved in this.

Sadly all the problems are going to put off future buyers. And worse still this is before anyone moves in.

What is the quality going to be like. I don't buy anyone saying this is going to be better than anything else here.

They are all built by the cheapest labour possible. Sure the tile on the walls and floor might be better but under the skin it's still the same.

Smirk, imagine my developer First Qatar is trying to charge me 600 per SQM. That will cost me 150,000.000.Even though yours is less, you should still not pay!! What are these people smoking???

Cryogenic, i recieved your PM but again when i tried to reply it mentions you do not accept PM's. You need to change your settings to be able to receive PM,s. EXCELLENT point regarding the balconies. Again, what are these people smoking??? Also, you are not alone, we all feel your pain. Just don't pay!!

Eternity, my contract says that QC will provide me with AC and that i have to pay QC. My husband is meeting with them directly to confirm as we don't trust ANYTHING our developer tells us.

Pinelands, you are so right. The Pearl would be nothing without the buyers. UDC, developers, QC are digging themselves into a hole by trying to rip off their existing cutsomers. Do they not realize that soon the Pearl will be nothing but an empty shell as no one else will ever buy once they know how they get ripped off.

Alpha wolf, thanks for the info. Time to get the press involved and let them know what BS the above is and to print the reality NOT the false advertising!!

Again people, please don't pay!!

Pearl-Qatar to add 50 more retail outlets

Abdullah Araj (right) addressing journalists. Picture: Jayan Orma

At least 50 new retail outlets would be opened at The Pearl-Qatar by the end of the year.

This was disclosed yesterday by the man-made island’s promoters United Development Company’s (UDC) executive vice-president (finance) Abdullah Araj at a meeting to formally announce the company’s half-yearly financial results.

Araj said The Pearl-Qatar already had more than 40 retail outlets, some of which he said were first in the whole region.

United Fashion Company (UFC), a wholly owned subsidiary of the UDC had launched the opening of a series of luxury brand stores on The Pearl-Qatar.

It was also announced that UDC’s joint venture, Qatar Cool company, has won two top awards from International District Energy Association (IDEA) at its Washington conference last month.

UDC chairman Hussein Alfardan said in a statement issued on the occasion that he was pleased with the financial results for the first half of 2009, which reported a net profit of QR330mn (as announced earlier this month).

The gross profit stood at QR253mn and an operating profit of QR327mn.

The company’s balance sheet reflected total assets of QR8.2bn. The chairman attributed the company’s financial performance and continued success to Qatar’s economic stability and to the foresight and leadership of HH the Emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani.

Another communique quoting UDC managing director Khalil Sholy said continued investment is important even in economic downturns and that was what precisely the company was doing.

UDC, it was announced, had also set up another fully-owned subsidiary, Pragmatech, earlier this year.

Sholy said the UDC is confident that its business strategy is very sound. “We are confident our strategic plans will continue to enhance the broad scope of UDC’s business activities,” he said.

The company listed among its achievements in the first half of 2009 the movement of the first residents on The Pearl-Qatar, including residents of UDC Towers.

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=304561&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

_______________________________________________________

"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

dune, accepted your friend req and sent you a PM test msg.

did you get it?

my builder is "the land" and i feel gutted as well.

we are all sailing in the same boat.

anyone from this thread dealing with the land???

lemme know.

looks like all of us have a painful and lonely battle ahead.

but come what may, im not paying and even if i would be forced to pay, i would be the last and would let them know what i think of them.

atleast give them a earful.

I support Pinelands. I'm also with First Qatar and I'm sick of their lies also. Future buyers for off-the-plan properties from First Qatar be warned, very little out of their mouths is true. I will not go into details as I'm still talking to the developers, but they lie about everything.

This latest battle with additional fees is just a long line of issues with them. As usual, nothing is their fault, but are they thinking about joining forces with the other non UDC developers and taking out a class legal action for their customers? Are they even talking about it? I honestly doubt it. Lies are much cheaper than legal action.

If you want to buy a re-sale property after someone else has had the headaches and put up with their lies, sure buy it, renting in the tower will put you close to the schools, supermarket & restaurants so it is in a good location, so go ahead and rent it, but I would NEVER recommend anyone to buy from them off-the-plan. Really unless you like to be blatently lied too, it is not worth the headache or the heartache. Me, I'm over it and I just feel blatently used.

so far all i had since buying the property is headaches. We should all stand together and start giving First Qatar and UDC headaches without us the Pearl will be a Shell. I wonder what First Qatar is going to do if they delay again and all clients terminate contract...by right we can and they have to pay back every riayl you paid them. This is stated in the contract so let's shift the power to The Buyers and tell them if they don't resolve you will cancel. You will see how high they Jump then.

What does your contract say on 'who' exactly is going to provide services and ultimately charge you these potential fees... i am aware that the exact rates might not be written in the contract, but is there an upper limit on them mentioned?....there must be some kind of clause in you master community agreement?

I sympathize with you....it's like you are being punished for having bought an apartment on the Pearl!

another thought just struck me.

if the apartment is 210 sq .metre with 180 sq metre being the apartment size and the rest being the balcony area how can qatar cool charge for the whole size???

it would be absured to assume qatar cool will cool the balconies as well.

shudnt they be charging only for the apartment size minus the balconies? ( that is if at all some one is daft enough to even pay this ransom in the first place)

My developer is Sabban and I was informed that QC is trying to charge QR 340 per SQM.

Sabban are legally contesting this fee.

For my case, I will be ripped off QR 70k...

Pinelands, thank you for joining the fight. The more the better.

Hotandsticky, thanks for the info. I have sent several e-mails to QC already. They sent me 1 very dismissive mail saying they will FWD to management. That was more than a week ago... surprise, surprise... I have not however tried to mail Fayed. Will do so today. Will keep you posted!!

GM of QatarCool is Fayed Khatib. Clearly has exhibited

gross neglect of customers and should be replaced unless

he is a mere puppet to the UDC board which is possible.

You can all email him. Email addresses at QC website.

Ok I will break my silence after reading all your threads...Dune I replied to your PM. I will gladly stand with you guys I also have bought thru 1ST QATAR let me just state they are the biggest crooks and liars on this earth. I will not go into my problems with them but anyway. I am not willing to standby and take all this BS and are terminating my contract..Yes there is a clause where you can terminate...

I will not pay a penny extra ...If these charges was not made clear in my contract I will not pay it

sorry for the delayed reponse.

when i say "goodluck", i really meant it for you and all those who got stuck in these messy predicaments..

but with all this "problems" already arising right before you all had the chance to occupy the place and god knows what else may arrise in the future.. ??

one has simply need to look at so many un-occupied villas around here. and if these villas can never be fully occupied, how much more will be those of costly mid-rise buildings at the peal?

in the first place, these projects are merely copycats from dubai and i would think that investors are better off spending their cash over there than here as there is better diversity in dubai... businesswise. But what does Qatar boasts of anyway asside from oil/gas reserves?

What if these reserves all of a sudden dries up sooner than expected? what business will be left behind? and if that happens... how can one dispose their precious property investment?

Some may had already forgotten that the construction boom here was fueled by the initiatives on ASIAN Games coupled with maiden goal of hosting the olympics... as Qatar basically was gearing to be well known as sports haven in ME, not nescessarily tourism haven (Dubai had already done that, but got overheated in the process... quite scary for investors).

Now, the Olympic Dream had long came to pass.... poofffttt!!

So what else do we think will drive further developments here? There is no such thing as long term master planning here... correct me if i'm wrong.

Well maybe, i am simply looking on a bleak longterm horizon here, but for the benefit of those who thought of better things ahead, i will reiterate....

"goodluck" :)

Genenis, apologies, just saw that you did mention that you are with Sabban Towers. That is excellent news if that is the case for you at Sabban.

Unfortunately at this stage with First Qatar we are still looking at insane prices. I truly hope that they can negotiate whatever deal Sabban managed to do with QC.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the size of your apartment as fees are charged per SQM?

Genesis, do you mind confirming who your developer is please?

Also, trust me, we are not making up any of these fees, i wish we were but unfortunatly it is a very harsh reality. The fees were told to us in person by our developer.

I think tenants must contact their developer & UDC for all the misconception flowing around.Our Developer assured us today, that QC installation fees will not exceed 31k in our case.

--Dune,

Our developer is Sabban

Hi Genesis,

Thanks for you response.

I sincerely hope you are right.

Not sure then why First Qatar has told us otherwise.

We will be following up with them. Which, if i may ask, developer did you buy from?

Cheers,

Hi Cryogenic

I tried to send you a PM however it doesn't work. It says that your account doesn't accept PM's. Not sure if you need to change your settings or something. Try and send me a PM perhaps that will work.

Thanks,

Dune

Qatar General Electricity & water Corporation (Kahramaa) are the owners, operators & maintainers of all Water & electricity services at the pearl.Thus, it applies the same tariffs for any residential property in Doha.As been informed by our developer , we will not be paying any connection fees for water & electricity services.

Hey interesting

Thank you for your support too. Even though you are only moving in 2011, you might as well let them know now you think they are mental and stop the cancer here!!

Have a fantastic holiday and be in touch when you return.

Dune

I just got back from yet another meeting with my developer. He is meeting with QC on Wednesday to inform them about all his clients complaining and refusing to pay the insane fees. He will let me know the outcome afterwards. I told him that if the outcome is not positive i still, WILL NOT PAY!!

I asked him if there were any other charges we were not informed about and he proceeded to inform me about the water and electricity connecion fee.... That is 90 riyals per SQM. For my apartment that is another 21 000QAR on top of the service charges and QC connection fees....... When the hell are all these fees going to end???? What is QTEL going to charge us to connect a phone line? Wait, hang on, it's not Qtel.. what is UDC going to charge us?? They are the one and only telecommunications provider on the Pearl. Surprise surprise, they are also the only TV provider!!! This fricking company owns it all and is making us pay these mental fees. Who the hell do they think they are?? How dare they not have the courtesy to inform buyers before the time of all the extras they so conveniently forgot to mention during their sales pitch??

Cryogenic, thank you for your message. I couldn't PM you so i sent you a buddy request. Hopefully i can PM you once you accept it. I truly hope that there are many more of you that are willing to fight till we get what we want. Do not allow these peole to screw us any further!! If they get away with it they will not stop untill they have bled us dry!!

We are going on holidays this week and coming back end of September.

I will keep in contact after we come back.

Unfortunatley our apartment is to be hand over on 2011 and we don't know yet how much they are going to charge us for the connection. However, if there is something that I can do, count on me.

I am pretty sure that if we are all together something good will come out of this.

Good luck

count me (us) in. obviously you guys are not alone.

if i could have your contacts i would call you and lets plan something to stem this rot.

for confidentiality reasons i dont want to display contact numbers here.

would it be ok for you to PM me?

the best way out of a problem is to go through it.

Myself, Camelme and MSJ have been hounding our developer, e-mailed letters of complaint to UDC and QC and approached the media.

I would just like to know if we are the only ones being pro-active here? Is there anyone else doing anything? We need numbers, majority rules.

We can write and complain on this forum as much as we want but NOTHING will change. Having all these discussions are a complete waste of everybodys time unless you are going out there and lighting fires. We need to stick toghether people and have our voices heard!!

Are we fighting alone or are you with us?

Could it be that Qatar Cool doesn't mind if they kill the short-medium term demand for property at the Pearl?

Perhaps they have done the maths and calculated that if they charge an exorbitant fee to 10% (say) of residents, this is better for their cash flow than charging a reasonable amount to 100% of residents, but waiting for 2-3 years to cover their costs.

Perhaps if just 10% of residents pay the huge connection fee then Qatar Cool will have recouped their capital start up costs and there will be no financial pressure on them over the coming years.

Or perhaps management is just idiotic...?

Now I really know Qatar Cool are blatently ripping off Pearl investors. I have just found on Palm District Cooling's website the connection charges for Dubai's Palm Island Jumeirah and other properties supplied air-con by Palm District Cooling. I have also found a PDF of a signed owners contract from someone using their services.

For the Owner

◦Annual Capacity Charges = AED 750 x tons allocated to premises

◦AED 1,500.00 Meter set up fee (one time fee).

•Refundable deposits for apartments required from owners and tenants

◦AED 1,000 Studio /One Bedroom

◦AED 2,000 Two Bedroom

◦AED 3,000 Three Bedroom and above

◦AED 3,000 Retail

You then pay monthly consumption charges and the amount is listed per unit.

I'm not an aircon expert so I'm not sure how many tonnes my unit would use a year in aircon, and I'm sure some people in Dubai are not happy with these charges, but even a grade school student can see that the charges listed here, openly published on the company's website I might add, are not even close to the QR129,000 Qatar Cool want to charge me for aircon connection.

Owners contract for Palm District Cooling

http://www.abergroup.net/palmutility/PDCOwnerscontract-2009.pdf

Palm District Cooling website listed fees.

http://www.palmutilities.com/customer.html

IS or certainly WILL fatally destroy confidence in the entire Pearl project.

As Aviduser said, they have hundreds of Villas, and thousands of apartments still to sell.

How does UDC think they are going to achieve this with this sort of bad publicity.

Ultimately they should take responsibility and sort this mess out. If QC continue down this path it will prove impossible to sell Al Wabb City, Losiail and the "Venice" in Qatar.

This will further compound Qatar's problems, put them further in debt and ruin any long term vision the Country had of attracting outside direct investment.

Personally I think they don't see the harm they are doing here. This short term gain is fatally undermining any long term vision of Qatar.

Thank you for your excellent post. I could not agree with you more.

As i said before and will continue to say... I WILL NOT PAY!!!

Please let me know if there is anything i can do from my side to help. I'm more than happy to join your legal fight.

Hotandsticky, i agree that the management of Qatar Cool should be fired or fix this utter mess they have created immediately. Do they not realize that they are commiting realestate suicide?? They are killing the future of their own project. The pearl will be nothing but an empty skeleton of buildings if this is not fixed immediately.

Also I would ridicule QatarCool management for allowing such a thing to happen. In particluar the GM who should be forced to resign and be replaced.

Is is individuals like this who display such a gross inability to properly run a company but yet are still allowed to keep their job.

I hope all who have been affected by this extortion - and that is what it is - stand together and reuse to pay this exhorbitant fee. No way does it cost this much for such a service. And any poster here who advises to accept such an outrage and "spread it out over the term of your residence" is nothing less than a fool and likely hs an interest in UDC and/or QatarCool.

we had bought our three bedroom apartment at the pearl with the intention of living in our own apartment vis- a vis a rented apartment and leave qatar after 3- 5 years.

there was no greed to make a quick buck cos when you make 60 thousand riyals a month, you dont need to make a quick buck.

every single person who invested in pearl qatar is financially well off and has invested only with a positive outlook towards the future.

but this doesnt mean the owners are foolish enough to be ripped by greedy mercenaries.

we had got several calls when we wanted to rent our apartment, some also wanted to buy - but with recession setting in big time, the safest option seems to live there till we leave qatar.

however this latest development leaves us gutted and angry.

firstly only in qatar and no where in the world can you buy an apartment for 2.5 million riyals and be told you have to pay extra to get connected to airconditioning.

we were told by the developer ( the land) the bath fittings, lights, water and ac will be done by the developer and we just need to pay for the monthly bills.

conned by their multiple lies.

ofcourse we had kept aside a tidy sum for furnishing.

now this 130- 150 thousand riyal tag for just getting your qtar cool connection is plain day light robbery.

I WILL NOT PAY. I AM READY TO QUESTION THIS LEGALLY OR EXTRA LEGALLY.

So should all owners of their respective apartments.

we should be wimps in letting the developers and the super developers milk us dry.

hypotheticallly speaking if all of us stop paying the monthly instalments to the bank, what will the government of qatar do with so many unwanted apartments??

add to this, the connection charges for water, electricity, hidden charges for maintenence, the final bill seems crazy.

do they expect us to pay our full months salary for our pearl apartment?

angry and rightfully so.

Does anyone know what the district cooling connection and ongoing costs are like in Dubai? Jumeirah Beach Residences and several others places had connection fees and I'm sure the costs were nothing like this.

This cost would give us a regional benchmark of costs to work on.

I have checked with my developer and it is true what is written about the QR600 - 700 per sqm fees to get Qatar Cool to switch on your aircon. The developer says that as they are in "negotiations" with Qatar Cool they have not informed anyone of these huge fees. He says he hopes UDC will budge on price, but what can he do, he has no choice but to use them. UDC properties are paying less for aircon installation, but are paying more per year in maintenance charges.

I was also originally told by the developer's sales people I would have to pay no more than QR50,000 in fees, which I thought was very high, but it makes it look very attractive compared to what is on offer now.

What is occurring here is very bad for the project, very bad for the country and very bad for the owners on the Pearl. People do not have to invest here in Qatar, they can invest anywhere, but we all had high hopes for the project and the country. I still have high hopes for the country, but the project is starting to stink and appears rotten to the core. What is occurring here is damaging not only the UDC brand, but the entire project.

I remember Emaar in Dubai tried to raise their fees by nearly 300% overnight a few years ago and overwhelming bad publicity led them to reverse this decision to protect their brand, their future projects and the appeal of Emaar properties. I doubt the people at UDC have the intelligence or integrity to have the same kind of concerns for their brand. It just highlights the narrow short term focus they have for business. Do they not know the value of word of mouth promotion?

Two weeks ago I was looking forward to moving into my new unit and now I'm fast becoming a major hater of this project.

Can I suggest you also post on:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=142309&page=46

And try and drum up support on that site too in case people have missed this thread.

Most of us who brought, did so to live there, I didn't think I was going to sell my place until I saw how rubbish it was and bailed out.

The next thing you will find and I have heard rumours about this is that Visa's are not going to be granted to just "anyone" so if you are from some of the more marginal Countries in the region, such as Palestine you could find your Visa application has failed due to "CID" failure.

Get all this information on every forum you can

http://britishexpats.com/forum/

http://www.expatwomen.com/

http://iloveqatar.net/

Write letters to the papers.

Of course there is one BIG BIG problem with all this.

RESALE:

Who will buy these places when everyone has so many problems ?. This is a real disaster, someone in charge needs to start sorting this out.

As it is I can't see ANY property in the Country ever being sold EVER AGAIN.

There is something wronge in the charges stated in your statement, 1 bedrooms connection fee with UDC is approx QR 20k, if a very big appartment it may reach QR 50-60K. I have researched this last few days.

Maybe this is not right ot rumers; did anyone get an invoice for his appartment?

Who in their right mind would say that paying an extra 100,000 as a developer tip is fair. Do you tip when paying for a car, an airline ticket, insurance, etc. Do you honestly think it would cost +QR100,000 - 150,000 to put air-conditioning in a villa? Go to Carrefore, price the most expensive split air-con unit and then times that by 6 aircons for a 2br unit. You are not even near the QR100,000 you say is justified.

i think who is capable of paying 2 - 2.5 MLN. for the tiny cage, shouldn't be worried about extra 80-100 Grand. It is less than 5% of the total amount.. consider it as a poor tip to the developer.."Poor", because even in the restaurant you pay at least 10% tips..

*********************

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small compared to what lies within us."

Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hi every body i suggest to pass the hall issue to the press and advice about our demand let us be one hand on this other wise reject the cooling of qatar cool

Hi Fubar, i have no proof but it is my theory that is exactly what they are try to doing. It has not yest been confirmed as to what, if any the monthly cooling costs will be....

Hi Fubar, i have no proof but it is my theory that is exactly what they are try to doing. It has not yest been confirmed as to what, if any the monthly cooling costs will be....

I just can't understand why it costs literally millions of dollars to connect district cooling to an apartment building.

It doesn't sound like a 'connection' cost to me, but rather Qatar Cool is trying to repay all their investment costs in one year, rather than spreading them out over a number of years.

In this region air-conditioning is an essential requirement for any apartment, office or structure and, if district cooling is the only form of aircon, then it should be considered a basic essential service much like water, electricity and telephone.

I'm willing to pay to have the service connected, I need to live there, but I'm not willing to stand by quietly and watch some investors get charged more than others for the same service. For a monopoly company like Qatar Cool to charge absurdly high connection fees is unethical to begin with, but when it is clear that there is no common set pricing structure for the same service it just compounds the issue.

Hi Pinoy,

I am just wondering as to the purpose of your comment.

We are simply trying to garner support for our case here to make people aware etc etc..and your comment just doesnt seem to fit in with that.

Is there any particular reason for it? What have you achieved by posting it?

Hi Camelme,

If I were you, I won't pay anymore $$$ except what it was agreed. I would get as much voices (Pearl tenants)and tell them we are not paying.

Good luck :)

That is soooooo true.

"It is always wrong to panic. We simply need to stand together on this one and if we do not rollover right off the bat, they will think twice about going after us again in the future".

"So there you have it. Longterm outlooks are not bad with regards to equity and whatever i put into my mortgage i get back when i sell as apposed to renting..."

goodluck on your future buyer hunting :)

??

I am not sure why but i feel i have to explain to all those who accuse us of being greedy and stupid as to why we bought an apartment in the first place.

I have started my own business here in Qatar, and intend being here for the next 5 to 10 years. We bought our apartment, not as a quick flip speculation, but as a home that we intend to live in. Putting between 15000 to 200000 riyals every month into someone else's property doesnt make sound financial sense either.

So there you have it. Longterm outlooks are not bad with regards to equity and whatever i put into my mortgage i get back when i sell as apposed to renting.

But, QAR 150,000.00 connection fee is not something i am ever going to see again. And with regards to other "service" charges still to come....well that is of much concern.Interesting, it is always wrong to panic, in any situation, though the urge has almost overcome me...we simply need to stand together on this one and if we do not rollover right off the bat, the will think twice about going after us again in the future.

Hotand sticky, you are absolutely right and that is most certainly the next course of action and is in fact in progress.

Lastly, i appreciate everyones comments on here, the more people involved the better.

From what I know (for what it is worth) UDC have an agreement with QC to "subsidise" the connection payment.

Other developers such as Sabban etc have not been offered this meaning that the clients are being left to pay. The sale and purchase agreements that were signed by any purchaser really favours the developer. But unlike the west you are not forced into seeking leagal advice before you sign. The fees are unreal and not at all justified.

Hey Camelme and MSJ. We are with the same developer. Lets stay close and keep each other updated. A law suite could be an option. I know a good lawer.

I will email you guys when i get more info.

Our plan is/was to live in our apartment.

Just to brainstorm: (For everyone who wants to share)

Are we panicking or are we being realistic about all the surprises/hassles/payments that we are going to encounter after we move in?.

there is a huge pessimism going on now everywhere in the world. Why I think that the apartments price will not really go down, because there will be always people like the current owners who want to have their dream homes here, or who can't/don't want to go back to their countries (Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan etc.).

Who knows what will happen in the next 5-10 years? That's why I wrote "long term".

But there is something else: I talked to a guy who is involved in maintenance there and told me that the not-UDC towers have a maintenance contract only for a year(?) and then the community of owners in the respective towers have to find a company who maintains their buildings... Is there any info on that?

Oh my too bad for Pearl owners who were duped. I have stated all along here that you can NEVER trust any of the developers here. This is what happens when there is no regulation and transparency. YOU WILL GET TAKEN ADVANTGE OF. And they will smile as they screw you. The best part is this is only the beginning. You actually think it wil stop with Qatar Cool? Tenants at the Pearl will be manipulated to no end. As long as you own an apartment on this cash sink, you will never live with peace of mind. Now ZigZiag looking pretty good in comparison. The persons who purchased there paid 10 -15 thousand connection fees for all. But I dont think QatarCool is involved with that project.

Certainly investments in the Pearl are looking like crap now. The word is out - buy at the Pearl and open yourself up to being taken advantage of - and who is going to purchase there now? This whole saga has depreciated prices there at least 30%. Nobody will touch the place without a financial cushion.

WOULD ANYONE OR A GROUP OF OWNERS AT THE PEARL PLEASE DO THE BEST THING AND GET YOUR BUTTS DOWN TO THE GULF TIMES,PENINSULA, QATAR TRIBUNE AND THE ARABIC DAILIES AND GET THESE MATTERS OUT IN THE PRESS! DEMAND THIS! ANY STORY THAT AFFECTS A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN SUCH A WAY IS BIG NEWS! SHOW UDC AND ALL DEVELOPERS THAT THEY CANNOT GET AWAY WITH SUCH MANIPULATION WITHOUT A COST TO THEIR CREDIBILITY AND IMAGE. POSTING HERE IS GREAT BUT WILL DO NOTHING FOR YOUR CAUSE. If I were you I would be a the Gulf Times office now! Get the bad publicity out now for these thieves.

developers should pay installation fees, this should be included in the unit price.

I refuse to pay these fees as well.

We bought an apartment at the Pearl.

We paid the first 20% downpayment in cash.

After hearing and reading all about this Qatar Cool saga we feel that the best thing to do now is to loose the downpayment (big one) instead of the full amount at possession day.

Is there anybody here who could give us any advice?

Thanks for any feedback/advice.

I would just like to thank everyone that is contributing to this forum. I'm going to see the developer of my apartment tomorrow and show him all the comments. I am also going to make damn sure that UDC and qatar cool sees this too. I stongly suggest if you are an owner to do the same. I know of peole that work for the media and hopefuly they will be able to write a few articles about this.

For those of you that are in the same boat as i, we have to continue to speak up and not just accept what they are trying to do. I WILL NOT pay those fees!!! What can they do if we all refuse???

For those of you that are calling us stupid... It's very easy to pass judgement when you are not in the same situation.

This forum was started to unite people that are potentially facing financial ruin. We have the opportunity here to reach out to each other and try and make a difference. Call us whatever you like, our focus here is solving the problem.

Thank you again all and PLEASE continue writing about your concerns. You are not alone!!!

usually these kinda things get hushed and brushed away under the carpet... by discussing it publicly, you let prospective buyers know exactly what they are getting in to AND it gets the developers to be held accountable for their actions

But wasn't there any contract that was signed initially setting the value for these services cos there seems to be no end in sight to how high these fees can go...

If you have no legal liability then I would *assume* you should be in the clear.

But spending a bit on a lawyer will be well worth the expense.

I wonder how much will be the break fee.

I hope is not 50% of the downpayment or so.

Thanks for your time.

You can just walk away if you don't have a bank loan. Just go down there and tell them you are not making any more payments.

OR when the payment is due don't make them and you will be in breach of your purchase contract and it will become void. You might be charged a break fee. Loads of people are doing this in Dubai.

No, we don't have any mortgage. We paid the 20% downpayment on cash.

We want to walk away to avoid to pay the remaining portion of the total amount so UDC could sell to a third party.

Yes, I agree we should talk with a lawyer first, but I would like to hear more comments so we have more information before approaching one.

Thanks for your help.

Is there anyone here who could recommend me a good Qatari lawyer?.

**I wish to clarify: No debts with any bank here in Qatar **

I was told the bank would take possession of my house if I didn't pay the mortgage for 3 months. Luckily I sold after 3 months !!

I would seek legal help ASAP.

Walking away seems drastic I was ready to do it.

As I say the costs involved kept escalating.

The mortgage was going to be 12K a month.

Service charges were going to be 1-2K a month

I would have to pay a "registration" fee of 12K

Plus I had to furnish the place.

AND I had no guarantee the service charge would not increase after the first year.

As the place turned out to be a cheaply finished rabbit hutch I guess at a stretch I could have charged 8K a month. So in the first year my costs 168,000 my income 96,000 a loss in the first year of 72,000 Rials. Plus the cost of furnishings which we could argue would cost 50,000

So a first year loss of 122,000 Walking away would have cost me my deposit which was about the same amount. And lets not forget this loss would have been ongoing, over 20 years !. The income would never have matched the costs.

Add in maintenance new furniture every 5 years and the VERY REAL possibility that you would sell the property for LESS than you brought it for and......Well...Walk away.

Of course all the above count on me actually renting the place out. That was not guaranteed as it was so small and cheap.

I resent anyone thinking we were stupid to become involved in this. I am not stupid and the people I know who have brought are clever well informed professional people.

We all arrived over 3 years ago and THOUGHT from appearances that Qatar was going places. Remember this was as the country was gearing up for the Asian games it SEEMED like the country had real potential.

We ALL now know this was a mirage in the desert. Things did not get better, Qatar did not improve.

We were LIED to, by the agents that is now indisputable. The projects here were not sold out. We were duped by agents and a complicit press.

We were naive, we come from Western Countries where we have a FREE press and laws that are EQUAL FOR EVERYONE. WE don't have a national press happy to print lies ignore bad news and lull everyone into a false sense of security. Essentially we don't have a national propaganda machine.

So we came here saw all the building read all the positive press and saw rents and prices rising. WE were SOLD. It all seemed on balance to be a good investment. I certainly would not have parted with my money if I thought it was a risk. I work hard for my money. (I say work hard I don't but I have to live here so I bloody well deserve my money)

So it all turned out badly. Should we have known better ? probably, did we realise we were being duped absolutely not.

You were "naive"? No, you were stupid! (Or is it the same?). Can't be, you came from the west. You should have known that the world, especially the real estate, is full of criminals.

Thank you Genesis for restoring my sense of trust, somewhat, in the local newspapers. I guess the Arabic press is a little more agressive in hunting out the truth than their English language cousins.

In my 5 or so years in this country I can't recall ever seeing anything in the English press that's overly critical of anything major, other than roadworks complaints.

On the subject of walking away from a deal at The Pearl, would that be basically the same as allowing your mortgage to default? If yo did that while still in the country then I would assume legal action would follow from the bank, right?

When people 'walked away' from debt obligations in Dubai, as many many people did, they walked away from the country and got on a plane to escape legal implications.

Check with a lawyer, as Genesis says.

Double post.

We are planning to walk away from this deal.

However, do you think that UDC will let us do it that easy?.

What would be the implication with my job?.

Will the government let me out of the country?

Would UDC talk to my company to get my salary?.

I am very stressed and confused. I need some guidance to start the process.

Sat, 18/07/2009 - 9:32am edit reply

If you're really determined to do so. You better get your self a lawyer or legal adviser for consultation(A qarari Lawyer will even be better).

Btw, i hope you did not decide that based on some negative comments your read on an internet forum ;)

We are planning to walk away from this deal.

However, do you think that UDC will let us do it that easy?.

What would be the implication with my job?.

Will the government let me out of the country?

Would UDC talk to my company to get my salary?.

I am very stressed and confused. I need some guidance to start the process.

The greediness of the people here is endless, only their stupidity is bigger.

fubar said "There's no way that this will make it into the mainstream newspapers"

sorry to burst your bubble...but it's already published in local dailies,Arabic daily "Alsharq" to be exact.

http://www.al-sharq.com/articles/more.php?id=151802

According to the article, Although Tower 4 of "Porta Arabia" was handed over to tenants on 15-06-09.Many refused to receive the apartments after they were surprised of the conditions imposed on them as services fees upon receipt.

People's assumption that property values here will increase with time amazes me!

The worst thing is that people will probably pay the outrageous costfor thier district cooling and it either wont actually be installed or if it is it wont work

"only mad dogs and englishmen go out in the midday sun"

"anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes in Doha would know that you were going to get ripped off something rotten by UDC,"

Well, so you'd think, but I guess there were people out there thinking 'this time it will be different'.

About a month after getting off the plane I knew the last thing I'd want to do is sign a mortgage for anything in this country.

I still have lingering doubts about keeping money in the bank here, much less about holding the title to a property built on a sand bar.

But to get back to the discussion at hand...

There's no way that this will make it into the mainstream newspapers. The PTB are too involved to risk writing bad things about UDC or The Pearl.

Only recently the Gulf Times published a glowing tribute to UDC and it's wonderful District Cooling system. Needless to say no mention of costs...

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=299985&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

The media won't be touching this story - perhaps to do so might fall into the 'erring scribes' category.....

Aviduser,

what you say is abosutley correct apart from

'none of us could really have foreseen how bad things would become'

anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes in Doha would know that you were going to get ripped off something rotten by UDC, irrespective of the current financial crisis it was obvious from day one that buyers were going to be stiched up

"only mad dogs and englishmen go out in the midday sun"

And it's frankly disgusting. UDC and the other developers have a rather interesting conundrum here.

I am sure that they won't give you the keys, title documents or Visa if you don't pay the connection fee. The problem they have then is what do they do ?. Would they dare to reprocess ? And if they did how would they then off load the property ?

UDC are in real trouble here, they still have many many plots and hundreds of Villas to sell. They need an ongoing revenue stream and you can bet service charges are going to be the number one source of that revenue.

There was a question earlier should you walk away ?

I nearly did I had a property here and managed to off load it. I honestly would have given it back rather than pay another penny towards it. The finish was terrible the size smaller than advertised and the project delayed by over 2 years. I would have lost 20,000 Pounds.

BUT ! I would have saved over 20,000 in mortgage fees on an empty property and avoided more in service charges and connection fees.

There is no doubt the rent would not have covered the costs of the mortgage and service charge leaving me out of pocket on a depreciating asset.

I feel desperately sorry for any one stuck with a Pearl or Zia Zag apartment. Many of us including myself were sold a vision of Qatar that turned out to be untrue and sold a future that will not materialise.

Many of us including hard-working friends are left out of pocket.

Rents for theses places will never achieve the lofty ambitions the sales agents sold us. how can they ? Brand new Villas are available for 12K.

Were we naive ? definitely are we stupid ? no.

None of us could really have foreseen how bad things would become.

This connection fee is the final nail in the coffin.

I wish everyone the best of luck but sadly I fear the worst.

you guys make me laugh, did you really think that your service charges and non contractual costs would be reasonable.......what a bunch of muppets

"only mad dogs and englishmen go out in the midday sun"

Deckard, I'm not sure I understand your reasoning (if any) when you say:

"you'll gain plenty from the increase of your apartment's price"

Do you think that the apartment will just appreciate as time goes on without question. How do you explain the 50% (and sometimes more) depreciation in the Dubai property market? Would you just tell owners there not to worry and that over time they are guarenteed to earn the money back?

Because the projects are being handled by unprofessional idiots!

If we pay this amount, what will be next? We need to write to our developers, Qatar Cool & the media about these fees. The owners should get vocal. We bought on the Pearl, but many of us are not millionares or speculators looking to flip properties on a constant basis. Many of us bought there to live as oppossed to renting. The way Qatar Cools fees are headed, I have more equity in Qatar Cool's installation fees than I put into the unit itself. Who ever heard of an installation fee for aircon on a unit costing +USD$35,000 and then you get a monthly bill on top of this.

We do not expect the service to be free, but the costs should be realistic & standardised like any other service.

it was not communicated, okay, that's bad. Can you do something about it? Maybe, if you guys unite and stand up for your right. But you have to be connected and it has a cost and eventually this cost should be paid. So probably you'll pay.

Now either Qatar Cool gives you an option of paying monthly for the next X years (and in this case you'd have another let's say 2-3000 cost for another 3-4 years) or if they don't offer it you have to take a loan from a bank/friend. I know it sounds stupid.

Or Qatar Cool/UDC/whoever is playing around here (it's quite a spiderweb of companies) just says, okay guys, you pay the same as UDC tower owners (and why not? actually there is no reason for the other towers to pay more, other than what someone writes somewhere up in the 2nd or 3rd comment).

BUT in the end your balance is still positive, keep in mind. Just have to swallow a bit, but everybody does here.

PS Just wonder if there is any other cost that might come up and you don't know about? I don't know... like exit fee to leave the island and go to work, or exit permits...

Two main reasons..

Firstly, the inflated costs were not made clear up front.

Secondly and probably more importantly, many cannot afford to pay the extra costs.

buy a fan.

I don't really understand the negative comments, guys.

Okay, you have this ridiculous connection fee but as I wrote before if you think 20 years investment (or even the next 3-5 years) you'll gain plenty from the increase of your apartment's price (wouldn't say value, but might as well). There will be always desperate people who'd like to get rich without much work, you can always sell your apartment to them. They bring them by the thousands every year...

You'll cash in big time later so what's the whining about, really?

Sales staff took advantage of the hidden greedy part of the investors. They make you feel you have found that hen that lays golden eggs.

Guys. Is it very basic and obvious principle in investments. Higher anticipated profits means higher risk.

I wonder how many investors did check the actual running cost before signing the contract?

Anyhow. This mess should be cleared and a corrective action need to be taken. In the long run it is not good for both the developers and the investors. ===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

If all they were taken in by was 'Dubai's amazing growth and expected returns' and not market fundamentals or the country's legal protection for consumers, then they are greedier and more ignorant than I thought.

As I said above...

Suckers.............

A little harsh.. I think that most were taken in by Dubai's amazing growth ad expected high returns on their investments.

However, i agree that they have been harshly treated..

FFS, who is surprised by any of this?

All sorts of 'idiots' like me cautioned people against buying on The Pearl.

You only have yourself to blame for:

1 - Believing the sales staff

2 - Believing that ethics play a part in commercial operations in Qatar

3 - Expecting that consumers have a right to equitable treatment

This isn't the amoral west, where the law prevents this sort of indecent commercial activity from happening. This is the oh-so-high-and-mighty gulf where business owners behave ever=-so morally and ethically.

suckers!!!!!!!!

Hi deckard,

Thank you for your answer. Yes, the downpayment was just about that in US$.

Waiting for more answers.

Hi Geneis,

You are correct in saying UDC tenants are only paying 25K, this amount varies based on the number of bedrooms in your apartment. I believe a 2 bedroom is about 18000.

This is not the case for the other developers, i have heard from 3 different ones that fees will range between 500 and 700 per square meter.

Like MSJ above,I was quoted 50K, which in itself is rediculous but I will pay it and not a cent more.

I am sincerely hoping that all owners will stand up and refuse to pay these insane fees.

I have discussed this with other owners and we have agreed this is the only course of action. If enough of us refuse to pay they will have to rethink these fees.

Come on guys, dont let them push us around like this, it will never end. They will be thinking up new fees whenever they need cash. We all have to refuse to pay!!!

Did your developer informed you about any law suit against QC?

My developer did informed us about Qatar cool exaggerated demands.

However, they didn't inform us of the estimated fees as they assured us to fight back.

If the given price as you claim, I will be charged no less than

200k as an installation fee.

If what you say is true, I guess I have 2 remind our developer of the

Promise to cover the installation fee as a courtesy of the delay

In hand over.

Our 3bed apartment in Porto Arabia was supposed to be handed over 1st of August (the hand over date was pushed twice before)

i can already smell the stagnating water at the core of the pearl....those harboring the yachts!!

how can this be maintained fresh? there is simply lack of movement of sea water in and out....

what a messy place!!

No,UDC owns like 40% of the QC shares, i think the other

Half owned by a UAE company. I think there is some

confusion here, I was just on the phone with 1 of the first handed over

Property owner's. According to him, he just paid 25k as installation

Fee for QC, the case might be different here. As the developer in his care

Are UDC themselves. Let's wait and see how all this will turn out.

I would never ever pay more than 50k as installation fee. The developer

Owes me that much as i paid them the unit's price on cash, not a loan

If you have to pay for the connection to AC - that's okay, you just keep that in mind once you sell the apartment (if ever). I think the worst thing could be to jump out now and lose the downpayment (that is certainly more than 130K right?)

Probably you bought it as a long term investment. You can look at it differently: this one time charge will be distributed on the full term of your ownership (let's say 20 years), so in the end you'll have a couple of hundred riyals as AC connection charges per month...

Is it true that UDC ultimately owns Qatar Cool?

Simply when did the developer know and when did UDC know of the increase charge. Once you establish that, when did the real estate know and when was the sales contract to you signed.

The next step is based on these dates have you been misinforme. Then you find a good arabic speakig lawyer.

Good luck

those inner water areas heat up to 120 degrees!! there will be no sealife in them at all.....

I think the whole idea is a mess.

First, to build these offshore plots (there are not "reclaimed" lands) adds many, many thousands to the base price, and then---who is going to live in them anyway???

A recipe for economic diaster.

Not true about electricity & water. UDC wanted that though.

But the government never allowed it. Kahramaa are the owners,

Operators and maintainers of all electricity & water services

In the pearl.and it's treated as part of town. No difference

In fees

What about telephone and internet services? I heard that UDC wanted to control that as well. Say they buy Qtel's services till the island and inside they manage it, but charge you as tenant extra. If you have problem you go and complain to Qtel.

It's supposed to be the same with water and electricity: they buy power and water wholesale and charge you a premium on top and you pay your bills to them. Can be gossip though... but would fit the picture...

You can't teach experience...

I see.

"Oh, You want walls? They're extra."

"Windows? You don't need them with no a/c. How else will you get a breeze."

Idiots!

pretty good business to get into!??

All to often, real estate is created to exploit only, and has got nothing to do with actually housing people. Qatar is a fledgling little country wanting to play in the big leagues, but it does not have the setup to do it.

The reason why Qatar's hydrocarbon industry is doing well is only because expats run it.

From my knowledge of the property industry here, it has beencreated and run by middle east people, to say that its a shady operation,,,well, just look.

WTF? Let me get this right, they charge a million for an apratment in Qatar and a/c is OPTIONAL!?!?!?!?!

What sort of idiot developers are they?

That's me taking my hard earned Riyals and spending them elsewhere.

a fool and his money are soon parted!

WTF.....with that money i would buy a 4ton package unit and install.

Aana free, jaana free,

Pakde gaye tho khana free.

A friend has heard from a representive from Qatar Cool who said they have forwarded on the message to higher management for comment. They also said in this email that the fees are high as it was not a UDC property. As my friend pointed out to them, this is a standard style service like the telephone, water, internet, cable Tv, electricity, etc who have standard installation & connection charges, so how is this service different. It seems they are using their monopoly status to extort the customers into paying any fee they like. Where will it end, what will be the next bill.

For what Qatar Cool are charging in installation fees, I could pay an electricity bill of over QR1000 per month for the next 10 years. I, and many other apartment holders on the Pearl, would like an explanation of these fees yet, as they are a monopoly, Im very doubtful of a Qatar Cool senior management official coming forward with a public explanation of these installation costs.

I'm with First Qatar. I'm really annoyed as this is a lot of money that we have to pay out that we had ear marked for furniture.

We are going to have to pay Qatar Cool for aircon forever more so why are they charging us such a high sum in the first place. As they have a monopoly and we have no option but to use them, what is going to stop them, & UDC, increasing their prices each year. I honestly feel we are getting charged for a downturn in sales and I think we will see a steep escallation in prices in the near future.

===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

and unfortunately it won't stop there probably.

I can't imagine ever buying a property here....there is absolutely no transparency, nor protection. You are completely vulnerable.

I certainly hope that purchasers borrowed their money from Qatari banks!!! so that this will not follow them back to there home countries!

I heard that there is also an appr. 4000 QR "community cost" charged monthly for AC, island general lighting, postal service, garbage collection etc. Does that still stand?

I am also with first Qatar but have done a little research with some other developers including UDC, the company that incidently owns QatarCool.

My wife and i have purchased a 2 bedroom from 1st Qatar,the equivalent connection fees in a UDC tower are apparently on QAR20,000.00.

We were also quote QAR50,000.00 and have budgeted accordingly. Now as the rumors abound, we will be paying around 149,000.00, our place is a little bigger than Camelme's,

Following meeting with 2 other developers and chatting to friends who have bought, it seems as though they are trying to pay cash for the Qatarcool plant in its first year of operations at the expense of all the other developers tenants. Please note that this is just a theory.

To us this is just rediculous, we would struggle to make the cash payment but that is not the point. This corporation can not be allowed to take advantage of people like this.

Thanks for bringing this up Camel and i hope this is only the beginning as this could destroy the value of our property as well as the second and third phase sales with people wary of commiting to these ludicrous fees.

Regards

With which developer are you? i have an apartment with the same size, but yet to receive info about Qatar Kool from my develper!