No one here is claiming that one side is all good and the other side is all bad. we are here discussing why maids and laborers tend to make so low salaries and work so long hours and have so little benefits in some parts of the world when compared top others.
I didn’t say that west treats everybody equally, what I said was in the west the social welfare system treats all equally and all regardless their professions have a labor law to protect them contrary to what happens in some other parts of the world which allows more common and legal exploitation in the name of "that's life" approach.
It will stir up my guilt only if I do something wrong.I know I am not doing something wrong.
"as Western people follow the eastern systems when they are in the east."
See,you chose to say this for your own convienience.When labours come under this eartern thing , even the maids come under the eastern thing when they are in east.Saying that please do not think I advocate for somebody's exploitation.All I am trying to say is do not OVERRATE.
Mr Nic , You cannot say that west treats everybody equally.I have worked in west for years together and I can confidently say that people are NOT treated equally.Also "servant" "master" are english words.
Hm... We had enough of Master- Servant game in India until 1947... The Master taught the servant English and "governed" and ran off with the servant's precious diamond, leave alone the other riches :-)
Of course you wouldn't want that. It might awaken unwelcomed guilt.
As for the western countries here, you missed the point: its not about nationalities behavior, it’s about countries being governed by political systems that ensure that all rights are for all.
You missed the point: Eastern people comply with Western Systems when they live in the West, as Western people follow the eastern systems when they are in the east.
"My world" and "our world" did not mean "my nationality" or "you nationality", it meant people with a human conscience and people with a “Master-Servant” mentality conscience.
They both exist in both sides, just the proportion might differ!
I do not want to get into arguments here (with the kind of "your world" "your mentality"type of writings)as I know it going to lead nowhere.
I am not sure whether you know how much western country pays for the labours here.You need to gather some info.
John of Arc, I like your joke.Everyone knows who einstein is.I have chosen a hybrid name einstein and India.It doesn't require superbrain to understand this.
Have you seen mustards spluttering?(My daughter runs away..) And curry leaves hissing? Do you ever use the chilly powder and not paprika... Do you know coriander powder, cumin seeds, asafoetida,fenugreek seeds,turmeric powder,garam masala which is not actually "garam"(hot) ? Do you chop Onions, ginger, and garlic and the umpteen kind of veggies which fall into the pot to make a single curry..?
And I have buttered a bread,made an omelette,boiled an egg, made cups of coffee and tea, made spaghetti, baked a cake...but never messed up the kitchen, as much :-)
GIVE A 2 BEDROOM APARTMENT TO A WESTERNER AND AFTER 6 MONTHS CHECK OUT AND SEE HOW IT'S KEPT. DO THE SAME FOR ASIANS, YOU WILL BE SURPRISED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE. THERE'S LOTS MORE TO TELL BUT LET ME STOP HERE
unquote
First kitchen walls will be painted with oil and curry.
we cook 5 stinking meals on stove. We hardly eat steamed or baked food.
Looking at your background, it’s quite understandable that you won’t understand what it means to be part of a society (In the other parts of the world),that took centuries to reach the current social situation where human beings are all born equal and regardless their profession, they all have the same rights: minimum salaries, holidays, maximum working hours, overtime, healthcare, social security benefits, etc, etc, etc, regardless if they are maids, laborers, engineers, teacher, factory workers, directors, CEO, shop attendants, etc, etc, etc…
See, all human being are equal in their essence. All would like to be served if they could afford. In "the other parts of the world", because of what I just said above, not many can afford to employ a domestic helper. As for in “your world”, because your society has a looooooooooong way to go before the social programs become equally available to all, the enormous gap between the rich and the poor and the huge disparity between the majority of extreme poor people and the huge minority of extreme rich people, abuses are well engrained and socially acceptable in your upbringing.
“Your world” copies the façades (the glamour, the materialistic side, the modern life style with all the commodities from "the other parts of the world", but if FAILS to copy the social security models and human rights developed and implemented in "the other parts of the world". Do you know why? Because “your world” is still governed by people who have the exactly same mentality as you have: The Masters!
For all that reasons, that is why you naturally divide the world between you (the masters) and the servants.
In "the other parts of the world" we are all people with different jobs of equal importance.
What I just said for the maids also apply for the laborers, whoa are equally exploited here and in “your world” for the same bloody reasons.
If we could wait a few centuries to continue this conversation, you would look back and would be surprised how you would agree with me and how your speech and your mentality (still perceived today by “your world” as common sense and that’s how life is) would have sound so supremacist.
Because we can’t wait, keep on your master role, thinking that your servant is so lucky for not starving and because of that you can pay what the "law" forces you to and you can treat them as a sub-class and still feel that you are such an important and good human being.
We won’t be here in some centuries from now, but rest assured that you and your type will be condemned and ridiculize by those who will be living then, just like we, in "the other parts of the world", judge today does who enslaved people a few hundred years ago.
Keep on with the progress. Don’t forget the inner side as well as the outer side is no more than a fake façade than covers a lot of shame still in practice in “your world” and one day, maybe a few centuries later if all goes right, you’ll be treating your maids like in "the other parts of the world" and they will no longer express preference in their bosses' nationalities!
I am all for somebody's betterment.Be it a maid or whoever.But when they work they should work properly.Thatz it.Simply cribbing that they pay that much this much and "not much work" is something I(a lot of us) hear these days which is very irritating.
Do the same guys who say "poor victims" pay 2500 to their labours who work in sun?
Mr Nic..I forgot to include she mentioned cleaning was only for 3 days in a week once in the morning.
You say poor maids?Do you realise you are paying way more than the market in the name of "poor"???Maids claim they are given 2500 QAR+accomodation per mnth and do only gardening or cleaning?So they prefer only british house.Do you expect us to provide them accomadation+food+2500 QARs only for cleaning a 2 bedroom house 3 days (once) in a week?I do not understand who is a fool here.And even if the house is not clean itz okay for them.And do the maids work properly.A big NO.All they do is complain that british give this much that much for no work.
If you have money give the people in need.That is much better.
BTW, for records even when we had to clean we clean our house atleast 2 times a day.
are self servants, thier homes are well equipped with electronic gadgets, some kitchen appliances are never introduced here not even in Dubai Trade fair.
Besides Western men share household chores unlike us.
I don't fall in the category of some ASIANS who are dependent on MAIDS for their every single work..I prefer to do on my own rather than to wait for them to come and do cleaning stuff...
I think it depends on the individual person and also the circumstances... we all know that most westerners cannot afford to have home help back home in their own countries but they can in this part of the world because it is so cheap... Back home it would be like having an employee working for you, all the same perks, same hours, same benefits, same days off etc...thats not the case here...because back home "maid, nanny etc" are considered as "proper jobs" - people train and learn how to be a "maid or nanny".. Its not someone you bring out from the village that has probably never seen a washing machine.
Some people manage well without help - others need it if they have young children and they are working etc....
herbert..you must be living in some 17th century...
can you please enlighten what will happen to the apartment after 2 yrs?? who doesn’t have a washing machines, vacuum cleaner or a microwave these days??
Thats totally wrong, I have managed without any help at all even after having a baby, no maid, no help from parents but still I have been able to manage well, both home and baby without any problem. Its just that some are used to help and others are not.
WESTERNERS ARE WELL ORGANIZED. ASIANS ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THEY NEED MAIDS, ETC. MOREOVER WESTERNERS HAVE ALL THE MACHINES TO DO THE WORK FOR THEM I.E. WASHING MACHINES, DISH-WASHERS, VACUUM CLEANERS, ETC. ASIANS SAVE ON MACHINERY BUT PAY FOR MAIDS, ETC.
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE: GIVE A 2 BEDROOM APARTMENT TO A WESTERNER AND AFTER 6 MONTHS CHECK OUT AND SEE HOW IT'S KEPT. DO THE SAME FOR ASIANS, YOU WILL BE SURPRISED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE. THERE'S LOTS MORE TO TELL BUT LET ME STOP HERE.
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einstind,
No one here is claiming that one side is all good and the other side is all bad. we are here discussing why maids and laborers tend to make so low salaries and work so long hours and have so little benefits in some parts of the world when compared top others.
I didn’t say that west treats everybody equally, what I said was in the west the social welfare system treats all equally and all regardless their professions have a labor law to protect them contrary to what happens in some other parts of the world which allows more common and legal exploitation in the name of "that's life" approach.
JOA,Great Escapism!!!!I believe that:-)
John. Good one. Using the ":)" makes all the difference , no ;)
It will stir up my guilt only if I do something wrong.I know I am not doing something wrong.
"as Western people follow the eastern systems when they are in the east."
See,you chose to say this for your own convienience.When labours come under this eartern thing , even the maids come under the eastern thing when they are in east.Saying that please do not think I advocate for somebody's exploitation.All I am trying to say is do not OVERRATE.
Mr Nic , You cannot say that west treats everybody equally.I have worked in west for years together and I can confidently say that people are NOT treated equally.Also "servant" "master" are english words.
Asian Continent consists of a lot of countriea: Australia, India, China, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, to name a few.
Philipinos don't need help. Cite me just one Filipino household here in Qatar that stinks or filthy...anyone?
But I could tell you what which household of a different nationality would smell like a rotten cheese without househelp....
Exactly Alexa...
Are we not getting off topic ?
To say that Westerners are great employers and no Westerners are abusers is taking generalization a little to far I think :)
Hm... We had enough of Master- Servant game in India until 1947... The Master taught the servant English and "governed" and ran off with the servant's precious diamond, leave alone the other riches :-)
einstind,
Of course you wouldn't want that. It might awaken unwelcomed guilt.
As for the western countries here, you missed the point: its not about nationalities behavior, it’s about countries being governed by political systems that ensure that all rights are for all.
You missed the point: Eastern people comply with Western Systems when they live in the West, as Western people follow the eastern systems when they are in the east.
"My world" and "our world" did not mean "my nationality" or "you nationality", it meant people with a human conscience and people with a “Master-Servant” mentality conscience.
They both exist in both sides, just the proportion might differ!
I do not want to get into arguments here (with the kind of "your world" "your mentality"type of writings)as I know it going to lead nowhere.
I am not sure whether you know how much western country pays for the labours here.You need to gather some info.
John of Arc, I like your joke.Everyone knows who einstein is.I have chosen a hybrid name einstein and India.It doesn't require superbrain to understand this.
My dear Westerner,
Have you seen mustards spluttering?(My daughter runs away..) And curry leaves hissing? Do you ever use the chilly powder and not paprika... Do you know coriander powder, cumin seeds, asafoetida,fenugreek seeds,turmeric powder,garam masala which is not actually "garam"(hot) ? Do you chop Onions, ginger, and garlic and the umpteen kind of veggies which fall into the pot to make a single curry..?
And I have buttered a bread,made an omelette,boiled an egg, made cups of coffee and tea, made spaghetti, baked a cake...but never messed up the kitchen, as much :-)
quote
GIVE A 2 BEDROOM APARTMENT TO A WESTERNER AND AFTER 6 MONTHS CHECK OUT AND SEE HOW IT'S KEPT. DO THE SAME FOR ASIANS, YOU WILL BE SURPRISED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE. THERE'S LOTS MORE TO TELL BUT LET ME STOP HERE
unquote
First kitchen walls will be painted with oil and curry.
we cook 5 stinking meals on stove. We hardly eat steamed or baked food.
einstind,
Looking at your background, it’s quite understandable that you won’t understand what it means to be part of a society (In the other parts of the world),that took centuries to reach the current social situation where human beings are all born equal and regardless their profession, they all have the same rights: minimum salaries, holidays, maximum working hours, overtime, healthcare, social security benefits, etc, etc, etc, regardless if they are maids, laborers, engineers, teacher, factory workers, directors, CEO, shop attendants, etc, etc, etc…
See, all human being are equal in their essence. All would like to be served if they could afford. In "the other parts of the world", because of what I just said above, not many can afford to employ a domestic helper. As for in “your world”, because your society has a looooooooooong way to go before the social programs become equally available to all, the enormous gap between the rich and the poor and the huge disparity between the majority of extreme poor people and the huge minority of extreme rich people, abuses are well engrained and socially acceptable in your upbringing.
“Your world” copies the façades (the glamour, the materialistic side, the modern life style with all the commodities from "the other parts of the world", but if FAILS to copy the social security models and human rights developed and implemented in "the other parts of the world". Do you know why? Because “your world” is still governed by people who have the exactly same mentality as you have: The Masters!
For all that reasons, that is why you naturally divide the world between you (the masters) and the servants.
In "the other parts of the world" we are all people with different jobs of equal importance.
What I just said for the maids also apply for the laborers, whoa are equally exploited here and in “your world” for the same bloody reasons.
If we could wait a few centuries to continue this conversation, you would look back and would be surprised how you would agree with me and how your speech and your mentality (still perceived today by “your world” as common sense and that’s how life is) would have sound so supremacist.
Because we can’t wait, keep on your master role, thinking that your servant is so lucky for not starving and because of that you can pay what the "law" forces you to and you can treat them as a sub-class and still feel that you are such an important and good human being.
We won’t be here in some centuries from now, but rest assured that you and your type will be condemned and ridiculize by those who will be living then, just like we, in "the other parts of the world", judge today does who enslaved people a few hundred years ago.
Keep on with the progress. Don’t forget the inner side as well as the outer side is no more than a fake façade than covers a lot of shame still in practice in “your world” and one day, maybe a few centuries later if all goes right, you’ll be treating your maids like in "the other parts of the world" and they will no longer express preference in their bosses' nationalities!
Oh, I find it very amusing too, my little boy!
And it is Joan of Arc...
I am all for somebody's betterment.Be it a maid or whoever.But when they work they should work properly.Thatz it.Simply cribbing that they pay that much this much and "not much work" is something I(a lot of us) hear these days which is very irritating.
Do the same guys who say "poor victims" pay 2500 to their labours who work in sun?
learn to speak good english, this helps them to secure good jobs like School Bus assistant or other clerical jobs
in hospitals
Mr Nic..I forgot to include she mentioned cleaning was only for 3 days in a week once in the morning.
You say poor maids?Do you realise you are paying way more than the market in the name of "poor"???Maids claim they are given 2500 QAR+accomodation per mnth and do only gardening or cleaning?So they prefer only british house.Do you expect us to provide them accomadation+food+2500 QARs only for cleaning a 2 bedroom house 3 days (once) in a week?I do not understand who is a fool here.And even if the house is not clean itz okay for them.And do the maids work properly.A big NO.All they do is complain that british give this much that much for no work.
If you have money give the people in need.That is much better.
BTW, for records even when we had to clean we clean our house atleast 2 times a day.
really? what a conclusive opinion..
Hiring maids, drivers , cleaners provides jobs for millions who don't have the safety net of a welfare state and are living in poverty usually.
@eco_savvy with ur profile it appear ur an indian/asian lady why d u say this??
that asian mens should be beaten along with their moms????
How sad.. I remember this issue before in one dictionary defining a FILIPINA.. I can't recall the whole meaning but it says "A maid".. :(
yv2r, please, if you have a maid that does those things, send her to me. I have NEVER found one that is able to do those things.
too :P
are self servants, thier homes are well equipped with electronic gadgets, some kitchen appliances are never introduced here not even in Dubai Trade fair.
Besides Western men share household chores unlike us.
asian bashing thread????
Visper - Westerners are not eligible for this profession. They do not have enough qualification to be recognised by the government!
1st say it either easterns or westerns if you wish to denote them as asians and ..... say asians and non asians...or europeans or british.
2nd how many asians and how non asians have you met in person seen their day to day life.
3rd keep a tab on their food habits,the no.of people in their family,the unwanted work for example pleasing unwanted people(relatives etc).
3rd if want to avoid a maid learn to inact as a professional working female and believe me you would succeed
foreigner maid... you are very rich i gues.. ;-)
"My maid says she cleans only once per day in British house.But for us we need to clean(vaccum/sweep) the house atleast twice."
poor maids who work for certain "people" in Asia!
When will Asia start imitating the “other parts of the world" for the salaries and rights of these poor victims?!
I will hire Westerners to be a maid.. What will happen?
i know what happened...
westerners they have money to buy machines to clean the house but they dont want to share the money with those maids and cleaners...
asians can buy machines to do so but they prefer to share the money with others...how good they are...
Yup, as i said, asians are big earners and spenders :). Pun is totally intended!
I thought they do not cook elaborately as we do..Hence less cooking and less cleaning.
My maid says she cleans only once per day in British house.But for us we need to clean(vaccum/sweep) the house atleast twice.
Sometimes we feel human cleaning is better than the machines.
Also all westerners cannot afford to have maid in their home country.
I don't fall in the category of some ASIANS who are dependent on MAIDS for their every single work..I prefer to do on my own rather than to wait for them to come and do cleaning stuff...
I thought the situation should be the other way round. Anyhow, guess asians are big spenders when it comes to comfort, or is it?
It all depends on the individual. Some people know how to manage their time properly and others cant. People who cant need extra help.
Its also the cost. Having a maid here is way cheaper than back home, where you have to provide benefits, perks....
To tell you westeners...how is your life without ASEANS?
Westeners are organized HERBERT? You must be kidding! LOLZ
Asians wear the wrong clothes. I once tried to change a bulb wearing a thobe. It was a disaster. That's why they need helpers.
I think it depends on the individual person and also the circumstances... we all know that most westerners cannot afford to have home help back home in their own countries but they can in this part of the world because it is so cheap... Back home it would be like having an employee working for you, all the same perks, same hours, same benefits, same days off etc...thats not the case here...because back home "maid, nanny etc" are considered as "proper jobs" - people train and learn how to be a "maid or nanny".. Its not someone you bring out from the village that has probably never seen a washing machine.
Some people manage well without help - others need it if they have young children and they are working etc....
I am an Asian, but don't need any help...
Difference between Machines Maids
Washing machines,dump all at one go rinse,clean & Dry
Maids are suposed to Scub individually one by one to clean properly.
Vacum machines:Clean the Carpets,floor,sucks dust where ever it can reach
Maids must shift each and every possible,remove the dust,wipe and sweep,mop properly
Dishwashers:dump again all in one go
maids must wash one at a time so that it is cleaned properly.
It is again the convenience of people it is not westreners or Asians,machines or maids
lol
very apt username foolish:)
herbert..you must be living in some 17th century...
can you please enlighten what will happen to the apartment after 2 yrs?? who doesn’t have a washing machines, vacuum cleaner or a microwave these days??
than buying all those appliances and paying electricity bills.
Thats totally wrong, I have managed without any help at all even after having a baby, no maid, no help from parents but still I have been able to manage well, both home and baby without any problem. Its just that some are used to help and others are not.
Westerners are used to it,cause they dont get anyone for househelp back home.
WESTERNERS ARE WELL ORGANIZED. ASIANS ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THEY NEED MAIDS, ETC. MOREOVER WESTERNERS HAVE ALL THE MACHINES TO DO THE WORK FOR THEM I.E. WASHING MACHINES, DISH-WASHERS, VACUUM CLEANERS, ETC. ASIANS SAVE ON MACHINERY BUT PAY FOR MAIDS, ETC.
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE: GIVE A 2 BEDROOM APARTMENT TO A WESTERNER AND AFTER 6 MONTHS CHECK OUT AND SEE HOW IT'S KEPT. DO THE SAME FOR ASIANS, YOU WILL BE SURPRISED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE. THERE'S LOTS MORE TO TELL BUT LET ME STOP HERE.
Not all Asians need maids and cleaners...there are lols of Asians who manage home and work quite well..
Because they cant afford one there...most of them have maids and cleaners when they come to this part of the world..
"In the other parts of the world", cleaners, nannies, maids are paid decent salaries and have all equal rights as any CEO!
And in Asia.... well you know what is still going on!
I think they are unnecessary in the vast majority of homes in europe, north america.... i am totally not against cleaners or maids....