Another Briton jailed in Dubai!

but an interesting one at least :)

I agree, a flow control is needed.

How is multiculturalism related in any way to the case mentioned here. I thought you guys will be more interested in discussing the economic problems gripping Dubai and the reasons behind such cases.

"It always takes 2 to tango", well said.

and those immigrants at the time had a lot to overcome but God bless 'em for being the pioneers they were and contributing to their new country. Can't say as much for many of our newer immigrants, I'm sorry to say, or our "born and bred" brits. :(

Oh ok, that makes more sense now.

kbaisi, when I say multiculturalism is not working, I also see it they way ex ex expat does. I am also not blaming the immigrants entirely.It always takes 2 to tango. Mind you, if I visit somebody in their house, I follow the rules of the house. But also as a host, I make it as easy and comfortable for those visiting.

Just to clear that up.

are the cause of a great deal of crime in america.

I mean that we shouldn't go around patting ourselves on the back because we are experiencing great problems with integration into a single society with common goals and respect for each other. I think that is because we are far less tolerant of each other's differences than anyone wants to admit. And that goes for "whites" and "non'-whites". Patriotism is certainly affected, though, and perhaps if patriotism were higher we would feel that pride of being a well functioning multicultural nation because at least THAT would give us a shared belief. Now, we often have very little that we share across the different races and cultures.

@ exexpat It seems to me you are talking more about patriotism rather than multiculturalism because the latter is more about mutual respect between different cultures living within a society who still share common values, rather than collectively feeling proud to be British and giving back to the society as Brits. When you said multiculturalism is not working I took it as you saying these other non-whites are incapable of integrating into mainstream society, this is what people usually mean when they talk about the failure of multiculturalism.

@britexpat: The ghettos and ethnic gangs stem more from socioeconomic issues rather than the failure of multiculturalism. Middle class Blacks are as American as they come, and most of these gangs wars came about post civil rights movement,they are more related to control of territory for criminal activity rather than race issues.

I "partially" agree with you and nomerci, but I'd like to remind you of something the immigrants in the UK had encountered 30~40 years ago; signs of "No Irish, Jews, black or dog is allowed" were common in windows of houses to let and some clubs, so we can't say that 40 years ago things were better, turn back the wheel of time and live as a minority,perhaps you can come up with a different conclusion. I think the UK is better nowadays.

I agree.

America has always been a melting pot and they've been doing it for over two hundred years. in that respect, Europe is still only about 70 years at the most.

Also, America also has problems, but becaus eit is such a vast country we tend to overlook them.

Look at the ghettos and the ethnic gangs in the major cities. Look at Miami and areas of Wahington..

Yes, we have a way to go, but the direction is right..

maybe we are more integrated than the rest of Europe, but we would do better to aim for the integration the yanks have in my opinion. Then we could say multiculturalism is working better today.

What did I write that made you think they are? I am pointing out the fact that I don't think multiculturalism is working so well and what the reasons are for it in my view. Did I blame it on one group??? NO. I blame it on the fact that there is a lot of discontent and very few people feel they owe our nation anything. We are not coming together in the same way the Americans do. As I said, there was a time when everybody contributed more to society (including immigrants) and we were better for it. Now EVERYBODY just wants to take and no one wants to give back.

Please stop trying to search for hidden racism in what I said because it isn't there mate. I am simply replying to Harry's post that multiculturalism is working great back home. I don't think it is. It was 30-40 years ago in my opinion but not now. We ALL are to blame for that, kbaisi.

@ ex ex

My point is how exactly are these discontented whites giving back any more to british society than these immigrants? Where exactly do they contribute to the culture more than those who have immigrated?

I think a bit of apathy has set in.. Some of the patriotism has gone, especially from the young (white , black, brown or whatever). But our society today is far more integrated and accomodating than any other nation in Europe.

When I was in the armed forces, we could count the number of non-whites in regiments on one hand. Now they comprise the full spectrum of British society.

Yes, there are problems. Terrorism is a key issue, especially since 7/7, but even that has been a wakeup call and is being addressed.

Our knife culture is almost strictly a "white thing". What I am saying is that people perceive others getting more than they have and others getting education, jobs, etc., that they don't get so it fuels resentment. When you factor in cultural differences and the slowly changing "face" of England, plus declining education levels, it causes discontent which leads to crime.

As I stated, I don't think my home country is such a glowing advert for multiculturalism at present and I think we have to get back to where we were when I was coming up where people immigrated, made a good life for themselves, integrated into the community and gave something back. That is what is lacking among Brits today. We don't feel like we owe anything to our nation, and that includes 10th generation Brits and 1st generation Brits.

@ exex, there are just as many white criminals there as there are successful immigrants. Are the crimes committed by whites there more 'british' in nature?

I agree Harry, multiculturalism has been quite successful in the UK.

back home Harry. I think our crime rate, the threat of home-nurtured terrorism and the sense of a loss of Englishness is showing that it's not running smoothly. That said, we are stuck with it now, for better or worse, so we have to make it work. :)

kbaisi, despite your rather strong words, I would ask you to agree to disagree. We will see what the future brings.

A lot of the Lawyers/Bankers/Doctors in the UK are from all over the world originally, Chinese, African, Indian and much more. It is no different than the US, and in my opinion it is quite sad and disgusting that after all the strides we have made in race relations in the last century that there still are people who would believe that these successful people haven't proven that people can be loyal to their new home and maintain cultural ties to their roots.

In just my small class of 16 students alone we had everyone of those ethnic backgrounds I listed above, all of them are as British as they come, all born and raised in the UK but still celebrate their heritage and maintain some cultural practices, none of the white students (at least not openly) in our class felt they were out of place and we all got along well despite our different backgrounds.

So to claim that multiculturalism is a failure in the UK is utter nonsense, the relaxed attitude to bringing in certain type of violent refugees in to the country is the government's problem and not multiculturalism, and the same sort of governmental attitude applies to a lot of local white brits who live off tax payers and have children who grow up to be criminals that carryout a lot of the vicious attacks there.

marcus should we book him in Grand Hyatt to do his time?

Harry, I do respect your view too. But I do not agree with it.

And I also do not believe that multiculturalism works in England.

And as I said, it is a different ballgame in the US. Most people that immigrate to the US want to be Americans with all the responsibilities and rights. In other countries they take the rights and try to turn them to their advantage, responsibilities...well, LOL.

that is my opinion, as bigoted as it may be. ;)

Your are entitled to your views and I respect that. I personaly found them bigoted. You changed the flow to justify your response to the original thread.

From my own experience, multiculturalism does work. America by the way takes in lots of immigrants and refugees. America has Muslims who wear the niqab, has mosques and all live together. This is true in Europe also - specially in my own country England.

kbaisi, yes, it is true for America. But, times and people have changed. Plus, in those days, and in some cases even today in the US, people have a common goal, to be American with everything that might include. This is not the case in many other countries, mainly IMHO, because in those countries we often are not talking about imigrants, but refugees. Now, look around, where ,except in the US, does multiculturalism work? And why does it not work?

@ nomercy I obviously can't change your views on multiculturalism, but your post and the others who agree with you are not far of from what Jews/Italians/Irish immigrants first faced when they moved to America, but look at the USA today, if there is any case that multiculturalism does work the US is the perfect example. All Jews/Italians/Irish Americans can now share a common American identity, but can also have events to celebrate their heritage and culture.

And to the others posters yes, I agree, if this guy was what those Qlers see as a 'real' brit this thread would have been pages and pages long as you usually see with all threads related to their perceived injustices to fellow Westerners (a 'real' one is not a muslims/Arab/Asian from their perspective), that is why it is hard to take their calls for correcting the region's 'flaws' seriously, they only bring up the plight of the other races merely to have more ammo to attack the region and not out of genuine concern for those affected people, very selfish and bigoted.

check your messages. And brush up on American history if you want to compare what happened there to what is happening in Afghanistan. :)

and many aspects of their culture have been adopted by the rest of americans over time. Like music, art, homeopathic medicine, and even spiritual beliefs for some.

Dot, I do not meddle in ancient history. Nontheless, some people learn from mistakes, others do not. Obviously the country you seem to be referring to has learned from its mistakes. Hopefully it will keep on doing so.I wish them God speed.

and yes, you are right, very few want to immigrant to another country, because their fellow brothers are doing that job by invading ;)

and they forged a new one. That is one thing you have to say about the yanks, they embraced many cultures and assimilated together into one. Your view is not accurate.

There still are native Indians in USA

nom

very obvious

so many are getting attracted for resources, and better opportunities, when they didn't find it back home.

now my questions are;

Did Europeans adopted culture of Red Indians, when they were immigrating to the new land? A big no, then why do you expect from rest of the world to do so.

Are they still European immigrants for the native people in America (forget my ignorance, if hardly any Red Indian could survived till now)? Again a Big no, then why you don't accept these immigrants, who themselves don't know when their parents or forefathers migrated to Europe.

Dot.com, now the question is this. why are there so many that are in or want to go to 'Harry or Jenny" country? And so very few want to immigrate to other countries?

very true nom

no hidden charges

no hypocracy

i luv it

becoming westerner, one must leave his culture, tradition and every thing, and must be ready to become Harry or Jerry with new host country, else doors must be closed on their arrival ;)

kbaisi, true. But you see, I do not believe multiculturalism works.

@ Khattak This is definitely true buddy.

@ No merci I wasn't referring specifically to you about "whining" about the local country, that was more generally.

However, my point is you and the other posters here don't know where he was brought up, and what values and traditions he may practice, you all just labeled him as pretty much a 'fake' brit because of his name, nowhere in the article does it mention his values, traditions or customs. And even if he did retain some of his original culture and traditions, that still is no sensible ground to question how British he is, people are very capable of paying tribute to their heritage and still remain loyal to the new countries they have immigrated to, that is where the whole idea of multiculturalism comes in.

Kbaisi, here are my thoughts, in case you are interested. If I took another nationality, which I won't, but easily could, and somebody asked me where I was from, my answer would be "I am xxxx, but I have yyy passport. My children , if born in yyy country and brought up with the values,traditions and customs of said country, would be true citizens of yyy country.

That is my take on the situation.

And fyi, I do not complain of the traditions and customs of my current host country. I actually do not understand those guests who are so very adamant on changing things in said host country.

Mind you, I may not agree with everything that is going on in my current host country, but as it is not my country, I do feel I have no business in changing anything.

I thought you might like to know that. :)

Its good that the Briton is no Tom, Dick & Harry but a Qurashi... Otherwise, this thread would have turned into a Dubai bashing thread by now.

I might be able to scrape together a few pence to bail the lad out :)

He is the story of the self-made man who came up with very little from his hard working immigrant parents (they actually immigrated, he was born in the UK). My old mum would say, "God bless the lad". It's a shame he set his sights on projects to large and is now in such a mess.

For my 2 pence, immigrants are those who actually leave the place of their birth and move to another country. Their kids who are born in that new country are no immigrants. Semantics people :)

Well said Harry, I too found those comments to be very bigoted and also reflecting the sort of double standards very common on these forums, on the one hand they will whine about unequal treatment from Qatar, but then feel it is perfectly acceptable to question how British a man is because of his non-traditional British name.

You have every right to take offense to such ignorance. Lots of immigrants to the UK have contributed greatly to the country, and in a lot of cases even more then than the 'real' brits who share such sentiments about people who have been lawfully granted UK citizenship.

Sorry to me it is a copout.

This man in the story was born in the UK, but you consider him not British because of his name or colour.

If a person gets a nationality, then he is of that country. I don’t know which country you hail from, but do you then consider immigrants to your country as second class citizens.

The reason I was irked is that my wife is Asian. We have been married many years. We have kids and she has a British passport. Is she any less British ? For that matter , are our children not British ?

The article doesn't state how long he has lived in the UK nor mention how he may be unpatriotic as none of that was relevant to the content. There are white British expats who have children who were born in Qatar and spent their entire lives here, left only to study abroad for university, but then returned to work here, I wonder how often their nationality comes into question?

Sorry, but there is no way of justifying such ignorance as merely a sensible inference.

ah Harry, but then we have to ask " what being of a certain nationality actually encompasses". Is it that having a passport makes you xxx nationality? Or is there more to it?

I love India. I can bounce as many cheques as I want here and they won't give a damn either in India or in Qatar :)

Thank You. This was the point I was trying to make with nomerci.

I find it slightly amusing how a lot of posters would be crying "racism" on how they believe Qatar treats 'real' Qataris different to those who were naturalized, yet it's perfectly acceptable to question how British that man is just based purely on his name, good job Qlers.

i ll never abuse the red lips...gentleman's promise :)

Well there is a lesson to be learned and that is dont sign any cheques unless you have the funds, also i hate that title Another Britain has been jailed Where does his nationality come into it he has been charged with a crime whether he is guilty or not that will be decided in the court it has nothing to do with nationality just cause he is British doesnt make him and angel just like being of any nation doesnt make you better than the next person

thank you Harry, you too.

lemontree, I would not expect any different from you.

Yes I can see that. Have a good day !

Harry, I am on no side. I look at things the way they are presented.

I would agree with you there. It does also depend though on which side of the fence you are on.

its good that a criminal case was filed against him. had it been a civil case, as it could have happened considering the amount involved, he would have been behind bars for some 10 to 15 years or till he would manage to pay-off the amount.

i abuse BINGO!

lemontree, BINGO!

i abuse racism...i abuse the word abuse...

so..abused is the term most abused in this thread

Their logic is that the current financial crisis has put him in this situation. In these circumstances it may be better to negotiate with creditors to find a solution than put the guy in jail..

Harry, "racism" is a term most abused .

He bounced cheques worth 50 Million Pounds ffs, I don't know why detained in Dubai is supporting him.

a Briton, Safi Qurashi....

hahahahahahhahaa...

.

.

.

copyright@nomerci

Good to know that racism is not dead ;)

Anyway, the idiot deserves to be in jail. Honour the cheques and get out ,,

ah yes, one person is better than none...lol

He has been quite dumb!Guess he had it coming..

haha nomerci, took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't understand your comment. Does his name or colour stop him from being a Briton?

He brought it upon himself, should face the music.

serves him right bloody idiot should know better

I just love it..a Briton, Safi Qurashi....