Arrested in Ramada Car Park

Navidzafar.. then go France..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Realy i love french kisssssssssss

What the problem if they copy and past if they share the same opinion??

:S

hahahahhaha

The net savvy people will understand.

100 internets????????

100 internets to the person who can find every time someone has said "if you don't like it, then leave" in QL. An extra 100 if you can copy & paste them in a humorous montage-like post.

Dear All:

If any buddy don't like the rules and regulation of Qatari Govt, then he/she should go bak to their countries.

[2]

I agree. I spent a year here in Qatar...and I should tell you that I was very good treat by Qatari/Arabic people here....the minimum that we should do is follow their rules, cause this is their country!!

:-S

so are the couple still inside or have they been deported?

Adil,

I guess you were B & B up here in Qatar!

brit,

sometimes your humor is a killer!

why not

well said.. since Brits are the only ones who obey the law, we should be allowed to stay..

Amen

Dear All:

If any buddy don't like the rules and regulation of Qatri Govt, then he/she should go bak to their countries.

Its quite natural here in Qatar. All these barriers applicable to expacts, last week a solid incident happened in Mesiaeed, one Qatari national & a lady going physical…. Kissing, touching etc….. Inside their land cruiser, a Patrol came & the officer walked in to them spoke to Qatari national in Arabic…

After few minutes the driver (Qatari national) drove the vehicle to a remote area & parked…

So this is the law & order……

I agreed it depends on what kind of kiss.... What busy officer arresting people holding hands... lol if u want real job go to Philippines and jail all gangsters... not a lover!

The Most Exhausting Thing in Life is Being Insincere

I agreed it depends on what kind of kiss.... What busy officer arresting people holding hands... lol if u want real job go to Philippines and jail all gangsters... not a lover!

The Most Exhausting Thing in Life is Being Insincere

Tallg let me give a general example..

Being drunk, dancing, being jolly and smooching inside a club. perfectly accepteable without anyone getting offended or even noticing too much.

Walk out of the door and try to be rowdy [like we do back in the UK after a visit to the Pub..:)] or show any affection like smooching or even holding hands or even exposure of the flesh too much, any such thing can land one in trouble.

So the authorities are being tolerant, only if these so called activities are done within certain environments and not in public.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Tallg.. The law and culture of the society is based on that umarried men and women should not mix. The interpretation of this can be both confusing and difficult to understand for Expats.

What is allowed and what is not allowed, or what is implemented and what is not? But the underlying fact remains that that if you are dating or going out with someone then you are taking the law in your own hands.

One of my friends teenage daughter got stoppped and taken to the Police station as she was riding with her boyfriend in a Taxi on their way to City Centre.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Gypsy.. How about.. Don't do it all in Public?

Remember last year when a married couple gave a peck on the cheek whilst working along the Corniche and ended up behind bars.

I also have to control myself when dropping/receiving the wife to the Airport etc.

Better Safe than sorry..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

the scary part of all this is these freak moral police... so sick!

MAN TO MAN KISSING???

MAN TO MAN HOLDING HANDS???

Don’t be anxious about tomorrow, Let tomorrow be anxious of itself....JC

people from other part of this world, if you are used to your culture (loose in moral sense) please adapt your self or simply adjust your passion to what is required by the host country. it is better for us and to the society in general.

try to learn a self restrain it is much beneficial than what ever happiness felt while doing the act of sin.

"Born optimist nothing can keep me too low for so long"

Well Ramada is known for the prostitution that goes on at that place. Ramada is more like a brothel than a hotel. the cops were probably there to cut down on it. and your friends should have known not the kiss in public in this country. i mean holding hands just became acceptable a few years ago.

The reason they are on the street is to advertise themselves. They do not "do it" on the street so there is no PDA involved. They simply wear slutty close and hang around, sometimes flagging down men in their cars to ask if they want a "date".

This has nothing to do with PDA.

I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM

Interesting stuff ...

QatariLady,

Please refer to my latest comment to Genesis, above.

:)

brit,

I know, life isn’t easy for some of us (and that is why we are all here) and we do have to sacrifice our selves aiming for better days :)

"As soon as the conditions will allow, trust me my dear friend with all respect, we will leave it."

One has to put up with a lot of things for money :o)

Actually times are changing. Look at saudi arabia 10 years ago and now.. a vast difference. Change affects everyone. the 'conservatives' are finding it hard to let go. BUT, things will evolve.

Whether its for the better is dependent on which side of the fence youi are on..

Genesis,

Thank you, that's my point - the maturity of Qatar’s jurisdiction system and how it’s divulgated and enforced!

Qatar is a Muslim Country, and so the national laws follow those of Islam

The rules we're discussing here don't belong to the "ignorance" category :)

tallg,

I have the impression that you may be confusing assertiveness with negativism.

Sorry mate, but I am not that good in the pc department. I usually call things by its name and when I cant I just don’t call them at all.

Tallg, in many different posts I have expressed my opinion about our jurisdiction system. Unless a proper unifed law that combines both Sharia & criminal laws. It’s pointless to name what the rule is…

As Egypt, has a proper “personal Status law”. I hope “happy happy” can highlight what is the verdict in such cases.

UK,

I know that.

It’s just hard to accept a guy is arrested for kissing his girlfriend and another guys in the same country is given 3 years of suspended sentence for killing a few people in a road accident!

And we all know that this country is a "works in progress", not exactly ruled by the rule of law, but by individuals who, depending on the situation and person in question, will dictate how criminal, an act is!

Anyway, nothing we can do but at least, we can express our thoughts here, for now...

Well yes, I'd expect things about Qatar to be written on Qatar Living. No problem with that. As for other countries, they all have their problems to. Not sure what your point is there.

As for whether you're negative or not, perhaps I just mis-read everything you've ever written. Anyway, I wasn't saying your negativity was a problem.

Qatarita said :

"when I returned 'home' after living abroad and enrolled in Qatar university for some courses, I was repeatedly 'hit on' by 10 of girls everyday"

How do girls hit on girs? ...just wondering.... :)

perhaps its to do with age. i go to malls and hold Mrs expat's hand (A good way of stopping her from dipping too deep into her purse) and have never had any problem, both in Saudi or here in qatar.

tallg,

Now, I think you are not being fare.

I am not negative about Qatar or even about the Qatari citizens; I am just negative against ignorance that harms others. It just happens that you are reading such things in Qatar Living and not on “Any Other Country Living”!

Lusitano. We are guest workers in this country. comparing to other countries in this region, I beleive that Qatar does do a lot for the Guest Workser (Expats).

We have to abide by the rules of our host country. I agree with Tallg that some of these rules are not clear to us and no one cares to spell them out in black and white, and that's when the confusion comes and we Western Expats them try to compare Qatar with our countries.

Again it's all about Awareness and respect of the Laws here.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Nope, afraid not lusitano. I imagine your being negative towards Qatar in some way, but that's based on my experience of all your other comments.

And I'm intrigued as to what 'conditions' are preventing you from leaving here.

QatariLady,

You got my point. Its not about religion, its about ignorance.

;)

tallg,

i think you know what i mean ;)

Very well said..

Lusitano..

We do look back 1400 years and we don't find it to be funny at all.. In fact we look at with respect..

When we look 100 years back from now yes we find some things to fe funny and it's due to ignorance not to Islamic rules..

genesis - are there rules documented anywhere? What law are people charged against when arrested for PDA? I've seen a sign informing people of the anti-smoking law. Is there an equivalent for PDA?

lusitano - I don't really know what you mean. I think you're trying to say that Qatar isn't the same as some other country. Which is true. But so what. Does that mean Qatar is wrong?

Have I known what this type of society is composed of, I would have never chosen to come here. As soon as the conditions will allow, trust me my dear friend with all respect, we will leave it.

"BTW, the rules on PDA are also the same in Cairo, Amman or even Marrakech. Having more tolerance there, have created an outraged generation of fanatics."

No further comments Genesis.

lusitano said "This is what we get when we try to transform a piece of desert with a few nomad tribes into a country, just in a few decades!"

......And yet, you came to work here ;)

As usual a post not relevant to the context of the topic...

Well whether it 10, 50, or 100 years. it will not change anything. unless Qataris will abandon Islam.

BTW, the rules on PDA are also the same in Cairo, Amman or even Marrakech. Having more tolerance there, have created an outraged generation of fanatics.

Our government is keeping balance between trying to accomdate expatriates needs , yet preserving the native people culture.

Guys,

You know exactly what I meant.

If you choose to be pc here, fine I respect your choice!

XXI century where?

XIV century where?

This is how Qatar is in the 21st century. People shouldn't expect it to be identical to their country at this time.

lusitano.. beg to differ with your perception of how the local Qataris would see and laugh at the rate of change..

We could say the same about the freedom that is being offered to the Muslims in the West, does this mean that most of the western countries will become more Islamic just because they will have more foriegners coming and changing their way of life?

Don't think so..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Tallg,

That’s exactly the problem here.

The problem is those who reached the XXI century don't want go back to live in the XIV... we only have one life and it is taking place here and now

;)

And one more thing, maybe the guy who got arrested would be better off provoking a road accident that would kill innocent people, at least like that the Qatari judicial system would not arrest him, he would only get a suspension sentence of 3 years!

This is what we get when we try to transform a piece of desert with a few nomad tribes into a country, just in a few decades!

lusitano - just like all countries look back at themselves 100 years ago and laugh at how they used to be. Countries evolve, but people seem to forget that they don't all evolve in the same way and at the same rate.

The sad thing is that in 100 years from now, the Qatari citizens will be laughing of how narrow minded their ancestors were and how silly were the westerns to try to excuse their backwardness.

Too bad none of us will be there to laugh along!

Meanwhile, don’t stop living today, just because some have not yet reached our times! You won’t get anywhere if you stop and wait for them!

There is no such thing as boyfriend & girlfriend on this Country. Just don't do it on public places...

QatariLady - I would tend to agree with the guidelines you outlined, but others on QL (and in other places) say that all of that is a no-no. Hence the confusion.

If it was written down officially somewhere then we'd all know what was right and what was wrong. That's the point I'm trying to make. As it stands, they can arrest you for any form of PDA, because there's no law specifying the limits.

QL..

Smooch = A kiss

Smooching = To Kiss

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HE WHO DARES WINS

I tried to look up "smooching" but failed.. What does it mean?

QL.. They were both teenagers around 14 years old. The police claimed to seem them smooching each other, where as the boy claimed to just streching over to get his bag.

The policeman was not ethinically Qatari, but was a more like a Sudanese origin.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

I don't see a problem with holding hands, as everybody seems to do it even Qatari couples.

I don't either think that they will arrest someone for a peck on the cheek because this is done all the time too.

What I believe to be forbidden is when a couple walk with arms around the other's waist or shoulsders, and kissing on lips and hugging.

And those who were caught because they were in a taxi together only dosen't seem realistic. What were they doing in the taxi? Were they drunk? What was the girl wearing? I think there's more to it than just being in a taxi together.. I go out all the time with my driver and never been arrested for it :)

btw - it could be that these rules are written down somewhere, but I and many others have never seen or heard about them if that's the case.

UKEng - Fair point. I agree that's how it should be - OK in clubs, no-no once you step outside. But there's still inconsistency - you see plenty of people holding hands all over Qatar, and you see far too much flesh on display as well.

QatariLady - no, I don't expect every single person to be caught! But as I said to UKEng above, you regularly see hand holding, hugging, pecks on cheeks etc in the shopping malls and at the airport and on the Corniche. Because it's so common place it becomes accepted that it's ok. But then they go and arrest someone for it and nobody knows where they stand. Without a written set of rules there will always be ambiguity and confusion.

[quote:] "It's that they aren't explicitly defined anywhere and they aren't consistently enforced."

If they're not defined then you're right if you feel confused. I'll see if I personally can do something about it.

As for not being consistently enforced I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that not EVERY single one gets caught that's understandable.

QatariLady - the issue isn't that we think the rules are unreasonable. It's that they aren't explicitly defined anywhere and they aren't consistently enforced.

UKEng - Not sure which aspect you're specifically referring to, but I agree to an extent. Thing is, things are seen in public often enough that people think it's ok.

Tallg.. I think they know that it exist and goes on. What they don't want is to see it in public. As long it is in private and in hotels they don't mind. As soon as this is seen in public they won't tolerate it.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

I admire your reasonable tone..

I believe the society's rules are very reasonable. Expats aren't forced to starve themselves to death or to abstain entirely from alcohol or "romance".. Only in the right places..

Exactly UKEng. The law may be based on that, but it isn't implemented in that way, at least not consistently. And many things in Qatar give the impression that the law isn't based on that at all - nightclubs and bars, for example, positively encourage unmarried men and woman to mix.

That's my whole point (and yours too I think) - Qatar doesn't know what it wants, which causes confusion and inconsistencies. If they made an outright decision over what was allowed and what wasn't, and wrote it all down so everyone knew where they stood, it would benefit everyone.

Your example backs this up; nowhere is it written down that an unmarried male and female can't share a taxi, and hundreds of people do it everyday without any bother.

UKEng said - "they have made the rules very clear"

I disagree. None of these 'cultural sensitivity' rules are written down anywhere, so people just go on what they hear. Just search QL and you'll find threads that say holding hands is ok and others that say it isn't. Ditto for hugs, kisses etc.

An umbrella would help ;)

______________________________________________

- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

Like I mentioned above it is a Sandwich.. Really they have to decide what they want in their Sarnies. The hard core conversatism or soft liberalism.

But irrespect of what ever they want they have made the rules very clear, We Expat have to abide by them, even if the authorities are inconsistent in applying some and not the others..

I would say.. better safe than sorry. Awareness of such laws for Expats will go a long way in resolving these confrontations and confusions.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Bottom line: you want to give your girlfriend/boyfriend a kiss in public:

A) keep it brief

B) give a little glance around to make sure no ones watching.

UKEng said "Where as Qatar is relaxed about expatriates from drinking in Bars and Clubs and wearing party clothes in such environment"

Recent events suggest they're become less relaxed about this as well. As you said, they need to decide what they want and stick to it. It's not the conservatism that annoys people, it's the inconsistencies and indecision. At the moment it seems like there is a faction of old-school Qataris in powerful positions who are calling for a return to the way it used to be.

As for this story, I'm sure there's more to it than just a quick kiss goodnight.

Clash of Cultures?

Qatar to me is sandwiched between the ideas of Conservative Saudi on one side and liberal UAE on the other. Qatar wants to develop like its GCC neighbours but at what cost?

Awareness is the best tool to avoid situation like these from occurring in the first place. Awareness and respect of the local culture and restrictions.

Where as Qatar is relaxed about Expats from drinking in Bars and Clubs and wearing party clothes in such environment, but it is very clear that they do not want this freedom and explicity to pour out of the Hotel doors.

Smooching inside a club, seen it many times, goes on without any one noticing it. Do the same thing outside the door of the Club or Hotel, and pay the consequences.

So generally we should not abuse the limited freedom and considerable amount of leisurely and entertaining facilities that the host country has allowed for us.

Afterall Qatar is a Muslim State, which takes both Religion and its Culture very seriously.

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HE WHO DARES WINS

was the place (a nearby hotel) had to do with it being arrested or the people themselves? The act (hugging a close friend for that matter like greeting at the airport, etc.) doesn't bother the authorities much, however it is the same a public place too.

I think hug is also not allowed so careful good information.

laboheme - you'll be fine greeting people at the airport.

Forgive me if this is a silly question, but what if I am greeting family members at the aiport? If I hug them hello is that ok, or should I just not do anything!?

[quote:] "i certainly do not pay particular attention to what is going on around me."

Me neither that's why I found it odd that she picked such fine details..

Please don't take my words out of context.. I was replying to someone I think local who asked why I would encourage them to kiss so I said to keep the sin at home..

Consider it something culture-specific.. because to us you know it is a sin..

I don’t think only kissing got them into jail…they must have been doing more than kissing ……..Hey it is parking no light……few drinks n………well……………….

so let hope that they are working for a good company that can get them out with no police record…. …but they jail here pretty good…AC, cable, good food,gym etc…….is not that I have slept there but occasionally do visit the those poor women there with no cases…..

Nothing is more relaxing than flying like an Eagle in Heaven !!

QatariLady ... sweety! u r very active and i like ur posts a lot but this is not a Sin! u have no right judging others and specify their kiss as a sin. sin for u just dont do it urself. idont wanna talk a lot but i know lot of locals and if u find a kiss a sin then i must be livin in hell, demons all around :)

I see

If I saw it like that I think it'll raise an eye brow.

[quote:]"Why can't everybody know what ACTUALLY IS going on in Qatar?"

If you were referring to me when I told her it's not the right audience I was only suggesting that she goes through the right channels.. It's pointless here except for the "gossip".. But to her it's like I was afraid of talking publicly!

mmyke - why are they refused a permit? I've never known a female be refused one.

QatariLady - thanks for clarifying. My mistake then, apologies to Qatarita. I still don't think it necessarily makes them gay though. Either way, who gives a toss. It's none of our business. Nothing to be gained in mocking them.

Qatarita was talking about locals..

What I find odd is that she could notice "a few interwined fingers".

I'll never be able to notice that on a shopping outing!

I know several british female professionals who cannot get a liquor permit,,at least thats what they say, and I have no reason to doubt them,,,and they tell me very wierd stories about being "followed" when they are out driving, and a couple of their stories are quite scary (to them) and a bit unbelieveable (to me). Again, I have no reason to doubt them...at all.

Alexa - Yes, it looks weird to me because that's not what men do where I come from. But that doesn't mean that men who do it are gay, and to mock them for doing so is culturally insensitive. It would be no different to mocking Qatari men for wearing long night shirts out in public.

Wow, the more I read the better this thread gets;

mmyke said - "pls remember that single women can barely make it into this country, even when professional...and then they still can't get a permit to go buy a bottle of wine,,,,and then they get abused regularily when shopping,, and followed home and stalked by the local "homos"

I'm not sure what type of females you know, but I know many women who came here to work, had no problem obtaining a liquor permit, and have no problem when they go shopping. Your statement is either a outrageous generalisation or completely false.

The wisdom on the whole episode is missing. What is the use to be culturally acceptable with the rest when such simple gesture are being condemmed. Bearing in mind that we are not alone in this world.

Sorry genesis - I must have missed the comment where you said that. My bad.

Qatarita said "BUT when you have two dudes walking around holding hands or having a few intertwined fingers ... that is homoland"

Qatarita, that's shocking statement and shows a complete lack of understanding of a culture different from yours.

That's Exactly what I wrote tallg.anyway, sorry for hijacking the original

Topic

I dont have to worry...i have not gone to Ramada till now...i am 6 yrs in Doha..NO plan also...lesson for them...! even if this is an open country..its STILL a Muslim country...so RESPECT the culture...dont do PDA..[ Public Display of Affection...! ] BUT if you want to experience how to stay in jail...ITS UP TO YOU.....!

Of course I didn't read through all the comments, but I did notice the Doha Debates being mentioned. Funny it was brought up, because if anyone just knew what it was all about - it or Al Jazeera Network bla bla bla ... if only people knew.

I'll go back to my inventory check - better.

By 'donating' land to build churches on Qatar is showing a tolerance for other religions, which is to be commended. It also means people have a designated place to practice their religion, which is better than having lots of 'underground' gatherings and services which can't be monitored.

The Coptic Church in Doha, as are the other churches, is being built on land donated by HH but the money is from donations by the members of the congregation and Coptic Churches outside Qatar. So the government isn't really "building a church."

Mandi

That was in response to someone about my encouraging to kiss at home..

I don't think that's what the government wants, although some local wishes it. Yesterday , there was a huge debate in a popular Qatari forum (an arabic QL)about the news of building a Coptic church in Qatar. A lot of angry posters questioned why would the government build a church for a minority. Off course many think of that as a threat to the religion, specially that the Coptic church services & rituals are in Arabic i guess.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

I have no problem with rules. If the place I choose to live wants me to paint my face blue and wear an orange wig, I'm fine with that. But what I DO want are clearly stated, written, accessible rules that are consistent. For EVERYONE. At ALL times. That's all I ask.

Mandi

to live and work there.A VERY good package.

---------------------------------------------------------

I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

I wouldn't want to go to Saudi either. Expats will still come of course lured by the money but this expat will choose to go elsewhere.

Cynbob that is what I was thinking. If it continues to get worse with more rules to restrict what you can do then its time to consider leaving.

Thanks for the answer. :)

I'm just thinking if things get any more stringent, it might be a good time to say 'adios' to Qatar.

Perhaps that is the underlying goal of the government here--to see expats leave.

What do you think?

Nothing is more relaxing than flying like an Eagle in Heaven !!

at least they r not shy to do their "SINS" while hiding like every1 else here. if they were just kssin a goodnight .. it s not a big deal but if it s more.. yeah i advice them to take some privacy somewhere else!

Nothing is more relaxing than flying like an Eagle in Heaven !!

at least they r not shy to do their "SINS" while hiding like every1 else here. if they were just kssin a goodnight .. it s not a big deal but if it s more.. yeah i advice them to take some privacy somewhere else!

Phew! From an infidel...

QDC & QA are untouchables. That's the most false rumor ever.

Hopefully, next year!But no one knows yet.It might be postponed yet again.

There is a rumour going round that they want to close QDC as well. Anyone know if there is any truth in it?

Genesis I think you are right, some people are pushing for a change back to 'how things used to be'.... but the problem is you can't turn back the clock and people tend to have a rosy picture of the past..... 50s America has mythical proportions in the US as such a great time, but it wasn't that fantastic... (especially if you were black, brown or Asian...)

children, the more healthy they become as adults...the more a man and woman hug each day more healthy their relationship, home and family are,,,,its not rocket science, although orbit may be easier to attain in some instances... :)

The point is , the government is accommodating. There are bars (and yet more to come), there is no dress code & regardless of what some of the locals thinks. Why push it?

We don't want to see a backlash, like what happens in Saudi or yemen. And yes, there are fanatics . You'll be too ignorant to think otherwise...

Isn't there a saying in Arabic that each generation has to decide their future for themselves??

You mentioned earlier that there may be further changes with the upcoming elections. When are the upcoming elections?

I hope some of you are not applying these judgmental standards, as expressed above, in judging an adult hugging a kid, publicly!! you know what that means too, in your book?!

mmyke, yes, I believe this is a healthy discussion too, I agree.

Salam

well, it is up to your generation to fix that,, isn't it?

That is what each new generation is supposed to do,,,fix up the mess the last generation left behind,,,isn't it?

We qataris come from the same tribes that gave pact to the wahabi sect. It's hard to change that mentality. Whatever you see as "little tolerance" is interpreted by many locals as infidelity or association with the infidels.

I have seen some real discussion and some real progress in people understanding the other side here on QL,,,,not the same ol' pussy-ffoting around the issues, rather clear and frank discussions.....I think thats a healthy thing. It has entightened me on several issues, and gives me more understanding of what I see during my day here.

thanks everyone,,,,

M

[quote:] "you confuse me!so you're saying that if people were not allowed to kiss in public, they'll perform bad at their work?what kind of logic is that?"

Good question!

you confuse me!so you're saying that if people were not allowed to kiss in public, they'll perform bad at their work?what kind of logic is that?

Yes I've noticed the change in the last 6 months, some locals feel uncomfortable with the pace of change here and I do understand. I've been here 5 years and its been quite amazing, I can't imagine being born here and seeing your world turned upside down. (However the lots and lots of money to go around for everyone must help ease the discomfort.....)

I'm guessing (and I have no facts to support this) that there must be an internal power struggle going on in terms of the direction of the country.

Are we now judging fellow humans by appearance? so a mannish woman kissing another at City Center should be detained until proven innocent?

I do see many strange social habits coined into our culture, I realize that very well and am suspicious too, 5 years back men weren't as intimate as they're with each other these days, but there are various conditions needs investigated to understand the circumstance.

I would expect Non-Middle Easterners to pay concentrated attention to this phenomenon, specially in the Gulf states, because they’re unable to adapt or accept the gender segregation here, I don't hear as many complaints and much fuss about this in Jordan, Syria, Egypt...etc, although it's penalized as per the law, and add to that the everlasting shame of severe social stigma.

Without official statistics (don’t know how?!), all these complaints and shouts will be treated as unfounded rumors by me.

Salam

exiledsaint said "Qatar cannot develop without expatriates so needs to accomdate them"

That's what the government doing already. however, many locals finds the government flexibility as unacceptable.

I wouldn't be surprised that with the upcoming election, the prohibiting of alcohol to be pushed on the top of any candidate agenda.

I guess my point is that do the police really need to arrest someone for kissing? Is that a good use of their time. Maybe a quick word to the couple that their behaviour is inappropriate would be the right approach. 99% of people would accept the friendly warning and not do it again.

Maybe the police and the courts should concentrate on the people getting killed on the road and start handing down some tough sentences to get the message across. The police could also chase and stop reckless drivers but they don't have time as they are too busy arresting people for kissing...

With all the advantages they're enjoying they're far from being in a basement.. They need the jobs as well so they must compromise.. What's wrong with kissing at home?

Qatar cannot develop without expats so needs to accomdate them. You don't invite someone into your house and then lock them in the basement because you can't bear to see them.

Putting people in jail for kissing cannot surely be a good use of police and courts time. Ditto police arresting motorists purely on the basis of a complaint that someone gave them the finger. Are people really that sensitive?

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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.

Debating 101:

You debate honey for a purpose. To convince, to change, to clarify, to clear misconceptions..etc.

What is the puropse of telling expats we have internal problems? Is your purpose bad publicity? Then go ahead do it but don't tell me that you're helping the society improve! It's irrelevant..

Yes we have problems.. If you want them changed go to Qataris.. They are the ones who can change!

Touchy Touchy Qatarilady LOL!

No 'hon' I say it like it is, QL is a place to debate, sorry if you feel its a personal attack on you....I'm not big on double standards

NB to all: why is EVERY qatari on QL, including the moderator who blocked my thread (also Qatari), asking me to not say things infront of expats?! :-/

[mod note: There are certain issues that if they continued to be debated on here in the manner they were - i.e. full of unsubstantiated claims and falsities - would result in QL being shut down. PS. I'm not a Qatari.]

We are the land where Doha debates on the bbc, why not debate here?

Happy Happy "but are you too siding with those perceiving two men holding hands as not straight?"

Well yes, if they look gay then they most probably are, besides when real men shake hands they may linger in the hand shake as which is a gesture of respect.

BUT when you have two dudes walking around holding hands or having a few intertwined fingers ... that is homoland

.mariam-mar, will put that in mind..

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.girls may the girls,

boys may kiss only the boys.....

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.okay fine, i can kiss my boyfriends in public, lol..

.hello boyz:)

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another day, another pay

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[quote:] "that the Qataris don't/arent capable of caring & more importantly doing anything productive."

Enlighten me pls how is telling this lecture to an audience of 80% expats productive?

[quote:] "Preaching values to the westerners here "

I'm not preaching values to westerners. I'm helping understand why such laws are implemented. Maybe hadn't the QLers said that THEY ARE being arrested for certain behaviours you wouldn't have believed that such rules ARE being implemented..

[quote:] "none of it has actually permeated your rhetoric with logic"

Hmmm..Logic!.. Maybe we need to verify that we agree on the terminology!

[quote:] "And Good luck plumbing the 'channels' you speak so highly of."

Unbelievably hostile and rude! You mentioned before that maybe I was raised among 6 brothers.. From your hostility and language I can only assume that you were raised among GANGSTERS!

Go ahead .. Attack me back.. Give QLers some entertainment :)

the bottomline, PDA is not tolerated in many countries because of Religious & cultural reasons.I guess Certain display of affection is however acceptable between couples. I don't see why i can't hold my wife hands in while strolling in a mall or dining at a restaurant.

"Qatari woman that 50% of the Qatari females are "lesbos"

Is almost accurate, when I returned 'home' after living abroad and enrolled in Qatar university for some courses, I was repeatedly 'hit on' by 10 of girls everyday, I see them now and then in social gatherings, most of them are married with kids, but I still cringe at their sight *shudders*

Qatarilady, No , I don't assume, I know for a fact that the Qataris don't/arent capable of caring & more importantly doing anything productive.

Yes we make grand plans to do this and that but its all show to show how 'progressive' we are.

Very grand indeed, much like yourself love...You're articulate intellectual posts, obviously the result of many gruelling years of study, pity none of it has actually permeated your rhetoric with logic; Something which is painfully lacking when you address issues like you're some good will ambassador.

Preaching values to the westerners here that we obviouly do NOT practice ourselves, is again PRETENTIOUS.

And Good luck plumbing the 'channels' you speak so highly of.

And no i'm certainly no saviour of Qatar , im just saving people the BS

While I understand your concerns about double standards in Qatar, but are you too siding with those perceiving two men holding hands as not straight? Excuse me, women publicly kiss and hold hands too, do you want police women to frisk and jail those too because they may be not straight?

Why isn't attention given equally to both genders in this case? I do object to this kind of thinking. I'm not burying my head in the sand either, but want to realistically analyze the truth without unjustified generalizing.

Interested to hear from you.

Salam

They shud have known the law of the land, PDA is prohibited and every1 knows it.. Even back home in India i have seen guys spending a night or two in Jail for getting too close in public area, they also get beaten up a bit by the cops.. gals r left alone there though...

" Dont take life too seriously, you will never get out alive!!!"

thats bad day for him /i kiss my girl friend at city center /but that bud bye kiss

This British guy is in Um-Salal Jail...

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why shouldn't it be allowed??

They are only kissing!

Why are menallowed and not between the sexes?

Do you think that kissing is like going to the bathroom??

your word for it, and although I try not to envision two guys having sexual relations, I am sure that pure physical relief occurs a lot,,,

I do wonder what it would be like to experience lesbianism, but no-one believes that I am a girl!! :(

but whats worse is for people to be hypocritical about it, or anything else, because then we not only lie to everyone, but also to ourselves...

I do hope the police only reprimanded and warned them, deportation would be an over-exaggeration and unfair treatment.

Egypt too doesn't allow this kind of public behavior, even though we are liberal compared to Arab Gulf States.

Simply, it's not and shouldn't be allowed.

Salam

Gotta go

laterz

thats not how one gets AIDS, or becomes pregnant, and babies get aborted....

but those incidences do happen a lot, as it does everywhere,,,,

what I just explained above, in fact, reduces the occurance of items because life is conducted in healthy environment,,,,

thats what referred to earlier.

Once you have to go into a "sneaky" mode,,have to lurk in the shodows,,,get drunk and head to the bar and pick up a common prostitute, then thats when your chances to get AIDS pick-up...when your daughter has to sneak sex with her boyfriend, ,when they are both over 18, then thats when they ar edoing it under pressure and the condone or the pill isn't used,,,

Thats where and when the results from unhealthy occurances show-up..

I'm not making a comment on all this, but I just thought I should clarify.

Two people of the same gender can have sex, but not be considered homosexual. True homosexuals are those people who are attracted to the same sex, and form passionate loving relationships with those people, and it is these people who do not have a choice of their sexuality.

However, it is possible to have sex simply to relieve sexual tension with anyone or anything for that matter.

99% of the women from my home countryare married here,,,,pls remember that single women can barely make it into this country, even when professional...and then they still can't get a permit to go buy a bottle of wine,,,,and then they get abused regularily when shopping,, and followed home and stalked by the local "homos".. :) they tend to get a bitter and leave,,,

[quote"] "Qatari woman that 50% of the Qatari females are "lesbos".

This is HER assumption and not based on stats and you may have noticed that jumping to conclusions based on assupmtions is very common here :)

[quote:] "we all experimented and practised sex, love, losing and winning, and the competition between the sexes"

And in the process many got AIDS, many teenagers became single moms, many babies have been aborted etc. It's not a rosy romantic picture

[quote:] "and we had experienced enough that we didn't have to have sex with our own gender"

Huh! I thought westerners believed that homosexuality was genetic!

Mallrat,not just in the Ramada,in all public places,,,even friendly kiss, they dont understand that unless you are both girls, or both boys just greeting cheek to cheek..

"There's nothing we can do to change the past, if it teaches  you a lesson profit from it then, forget it."

Yes, but I thought that Qatari guys kiss and hold hands because they are good friends?? and I was told the other day by a Qatari woman that 50% of the Qatari females are "lesbos".

I chuckled....and then shocked I suppose.

We grew up in the west with dating, and all the competition that goes along with the youngs guys and gals attracting and competing for the best they could get,,,and in the process we all experimented and practised sex, love, losing and winning, and the competition between the sexes. By the time we were the age to marry, we were not perfect by any means, but we had, on average, 3 to 5 intimate relationships, and we had experienced enough that we didn't have to have sex with our own gender, unless we wanted it, or were the ugliest in the line...

But here, in this culture, where this is not possible, the "homo" and "lesbo" rate is much, much above the normal rate of occurance if what I am told is true,,,,

I wonder if its because young guys and girls can't get to practice, without incurring honour kilings and shame.

My daughter is 20 years old in Canada,and a very beautiful and intelligent young woman..,I take her and her current botfriend skiing whenever possible,,,they stay in her room with no questions asked, and its very comfortable,,he is a very good guy,,,if they don't eventually get married, then they made a good couple while practising,,,,

Is that better than being forced to have sex with your own gender out of desperation??

but unfortunately , he was here doing his comments. lol....

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" Failure is Not an OPTION "

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What about women from your own home country?

Well...Public Display of affection is allowed here in qatar...

Yes hon that's why I say go through the right channels.. Send a letter to the Advisory Council members to work out a solution.. You think of an action plan and suggest it to them.. Send an email to the Emir or Heir Apparent and draw their attention to the issue..

Your problem is that you assume that Qataris don't care and you're the saviour. Do you happen to be wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt?

mmyke - True.. this place is very challenging for a Single guy...

But till now I thought Ramada was like a little democratic land on this part of the world... where people can wear wht they want .. drink wht they want and dance the way they want...

But kissing outside..... when it is illegal is not accepted...

Even if the passion was over flowing.... they shold have had entered into one of the car... said good bye the way they wanted to .. and no one would notice... at least the police wont.. :)

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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol

.so we cannot kiss our friends in Ramada? omg....

.greetea, no more kissing.....

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another day, another pay

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homo - homosexuals...rampant in Qatar and very publicly holding hands a display in prelude to what happens behind closed doors.....but ooooops, its OK since its behind closed doors ;)

Where were we....? Ah yes, public display of affection

very difficult to find someone to marry here. All the guideposts and signals which we understand in our courtships are non-existant here,,,,its like the desert,,

QL, nothing wrong. But with a ratio of 5:1 for males and females it's a bit hard to find somebody suitable. Don't you think so?

This is hard to believe. I kiss getting out of the car then kiss when I am back in the car. I hug in the mall and hold hands too. No one ever cared for it.

I do not know what you mean by "homos"...?

What's wrong with getting married?

Qatarilady ...Well it isnt doing much because these homo's seem to be on the rise...I think we should practice what we preach dear, esle you look pretentious amongst the people youre trying to reform

I totally agree with you.I do not like prostitutes, especially cheap ones,,,,

But the reason why it flourishes here is that there are extremely few single women to date here,,,and when you do its technically illegal,,,,so for a single, professional guy its a very inconvenient and unhealthy place to live in the long term...

Go through the right channels otherwise it's pointless show-off!

As far as I know the Heir Apparent gave directives that these so-called guys be arrested and I also heard that he is to implement mandatory one-year military service so they are brought back to manhood..

If anything its advertising homosexuality..but we dont like to speak badly about our country , now do we?

In this case we should demand that the prostitutes be banned not add to it all the other stuff..

Just wondering, Qatar Lady...

The Qatari men holding hands, you know the ones in tight thobes with that long greasy hair...

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt that isnt also public ' incremental display of affection' which is obviously sinful aswell, Is that acceptable?

If not why dont they address that aswell here in Qatar?

[quote:] "I also wonder why publicly displaying your happiness is so offensive also."

If it is prohibited then it's not "happy" but impudent laugh

hypocritical that you cannot kiss your girlfriend good night, while at the same time the prostitutes pour out of those hotels with men, going to have sex for money, and the Police rarely deal with it.

Even in Canada it is not that brazenly obvious,, or hypocritical.

no wonder they look glazed and zombied over there in dxb.

comment on pda,i was with my younger sister there the last time and she likes to hold my arm,,she overheard someone saying"if shes my mother?"lol

Are you meaning apocryphal?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apocryphal

I did explain above refer to it pls.

In Dubai it is also an offense to talk and laugh loudly in public. On top of wondering why publicly displaying your love for someone is so offensive, I also wonder why publicly displaying your happiness is so offensive also.

I've seen "healthy" display of relationship.. I've seen awkward embarrassing display that normal westerners do find unacceptable..

I've seen it and honestly I don't want to see it here (no offense)

MissX

The offense, I wonder myself as to why.

My guess is that sexuality here is a domestic/bedroom issue and not for public, this is in line with females being covered to hide their 'beauty', something my western brains can't understand until today.

I am sure this can be related to the Quran as the culture here is largely dictated by religion. So, we would have to request Qatari Lady to explain to us why 'kissing' in public is such and offense.

Actually it does not matter at all, it is their culture and their rules and we can not do anything but respect it. Even in Dubai they are upholding these laws, even though they are a 100 times more liberal.

your whole argument about public display isn't what I would have expected from someone who would have seen healthy relationships,,,,

I've been to Europe..Why?

in the souq, with a police man standing right next to us, and nothing... however, a Qatari friend of mine kissed his girlfriend hello and City Centre, and yip, he got locked up... so I guess its the nature of the policeman on duty - 'uber conservative' - or 'doesn't really give a damn' As long as its not a DUI...

"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME

visit www.qaws.org

That's yet another problem.. No wonder rape crimes are on the rise..

Have you ever been outside of Qatar, except Saudi perhaps?

No.. Public "display" of prostitutes began with public incremental display of affection..

advert back in SA...

"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME

visit www.qaws.org

i only have to say 1 thing on their situation

Buying an expensive dress for a date thursday night $320

Arranging a nice car for dinner at ramada with girlfriend $200

giving a nice tip to the waiter to impress ur girlfriend

$30

getting caught by the police at the parking lot kissing ur girlfriend priceless(cause u dont know how much fine the will charge for that kiss)

there are few thing which money can by...but for anything else there is qatar police.

Yet dvds with explicit sexual content (sex and the city, True Blood..hmmmm Rome) are sold in Qatar.

I suppose thats ok as it falls under the "in your home" catergory

Xena, I suspect the police were in the car park watching and waiting for something like this to happen. Believe me, the CID are in ALL the major hotels, so you're right, they are indeed watching us.

Funiculus - how about another golden rule? No revealing clothes

Prostitution began from innocent public kissing?

Are you sure about that one?

Opens the door to the destruction of cultural values.

Someone mentioned that in Europe prostitutes are called "sidewalkers" (I think) as they can be picked up from THE STREET.. It began with innocent public kissing..

which to day seems to be my motto...

They got arrested for kissing in the Ramada car park... hmmm..

This tells us a number of things:

1) They were either kissing long enough for the cops to be called and to arrive - which means - and I am sure you will all agree - the kissing by then had clearly developed into something way more than just 'kissing' - cause if it was a quick peck on the cheek, and jump into the car and leave, the police wouldn't have made it in time...

2) The police were actually sitting in the car park waiting for something.... - which means they ARE indeed watching everything we do.....

"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME

visit www.qaws.org

Thanx for pointing out that they're VERY SIMPLE..

I do wonder how the public expression of love for someone, is such an offense to other people.

i thing it should be smooching not only kiss i swear if only the kiss they wont go for jail beware it

Excellent.

3 Golden rules in this country

1 - No criminality

2 - No Drugs

3 - No public display of affection.

Adhere to these VERY SIMPLE and basic rules, you'll be fine.

Drac said:

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Finally i am free! And starving...

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Some mistakes on Dottie' s thread:

- "a young British guy and his British girlfriend" = not true: a young British lady and an "old fashion" dressed Transylvanian weirdo guy;

- "they were holding hands" = not true: I was holding MY hands on her neck!!!;

- "goodnight kisses" = not true: It was a "dinner-kiss"!

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i think it has more to do with a kind of mindset than a culture thing .. i know lots of people have problems 'respecting' such cultures which impose restrictions on basic human feelings..So Qlady,asking smbdy to 'respect'something they actually dont amounts to 'imposing' it on them..

missx,generally the 'sin' part of it stems from the reasoning that sex is a bad thing..

i knw bcos i've seen it even back home where many ppl dont look at sex as 'makin love' but as 'dirty'..

They should have known better..Holding hands are tolerated. But kissing in public is a big no-no.

I'm glad it is this way..

People have homes where they can do private things there.. This is our culture please respect it and don't try to MAKE us change it just because to you it seems "unhappy and bitter".

Is it a sin because they were not married QL? Are married people allowed to kiss in public then?

Sounds like there's a whole heap of unhappy & bitter people making the laws in Qatar.

Sounds fair enough to me.

Oops, thanks for the spelling correction..........

Of course not.. I advise them not to go public with their sins..

just looking for the job as of now. hope could some one hepl me.

Sai....ditto...lol

Treysdad... nice advice... just wondering why do something to get caught on any day otherwise...lol...

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The secret of charm is bullshit.

Qatarilady.. it is a very bad suggestion.. you advise two persons of the opposit gender to go home and kiss there at the night time?

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small compared to what lies within us."

Oliver Wendell Holmes

don't get caught on a Thursday. Why? because no one will sign your release papers on a Friday so the earliest you'll go out is Saturday afternoon. So instead of spending one night in jail, you'll spend your whole weekend in jail.

And remember what TCOM said above...

Possibly..

without reading the thread i thought it was brit...

as i go on reading it, i was thinking DOTTIE has mistaken seen a british girl instead of chinese doll :) lol

and good thing Brit gave a comment--- which clearly means he's not in jail now :)

MyHotComments

qatarilady....i guess they were drunk and tried to kiss and when they get home they could say goodnite.lool

They can say goodnight in public but kiss at home..

GO QATAR!

Seems like Ramada car park is a more happening place than Qube, Orion, etc....

Arien & Sai...how could you think it could be britexpat...the girl was a british not a chinese (famous china dolls as referred)...lol

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The secret of charm is bullshit.

happens all the time here, so be very careful.

Dottie...i do believe u cuz it happened to someone before that my friends know.in that situation,they were leaving doha and at the airport they kissed eachother and spent the night in jail instead of 1st class seats.its hard to believe but it did happen.

thing to do to 2 nice people saying goodnight.

SO NO THE WE GETTING SPELLING LESSONS ON QL..LOL

hypocryphal - For a made-up (or overly elaborated) story told to make the teller sound virtuous and honest. (PSEUDOdictionary)

Results for "hypocryphal" from the Cambridge Dictionary:

hypocryphal was not found

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small compared to what lies within us."

Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hypocryphal is not a true word, it is like slang....

An untrue story told to support a point you don't believe in. Source: Urban Dictionary (Not a true dictionary)

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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

No AbuAmerican, I don't

Chinita . all Ariens think alike. ;)

brit lol I thought you did a facelift

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

i think RAMADA CAR PARK is one of ur TRADEMARK here in QL..

see everybody were thinking that it was u :) lol

MyHotComments

Poerhaps there was a bit of Tonsil hockey going on...Got to be careful, especially with the swine flu around

lol :) arien

i was thinking of it too...

well, here whatever the kind of kiss (even just a friendly goodbye kiss) of man and woman it's really not allowed :(

MyHotComments

I usually wear a wig and snappy clothes around the ramada..makes me look young and the ladies make me feel young :)

thanks for the info...im fasting right now,,,my pea brain aint working properly...

Hypocryphal means a story that is made up, but spreads like wildfire and everyone believes it and starts to add on things, an urban myth if you like.

Brit - I though it must be you. but then i notice he has written ''young'' - lol ;)

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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -

i believe you,,,i was just trying to get the full details.

btw,what is the meaning of hypocryphal?

shoeaddict, I know they spend the night in jail because the guy's boss is my friend, and he went to visit him with food, etc and was trying desperately to get him released all day yesterday. Believe me, this is true, not another hypocryphal story.......

Britex ???? ;o)

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tEaCh Me RuLeS, i'Ll TeAcH hOw To BrEaK iT ..

rMs..!!

Thanks for the warning.. I usually meet my eastern bunny - may ridee me at the Ramada.. i'll be careful..

night in jail?did you follow them?

TIG PDA is not allowed ..... PERIOD

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