Egyptians angry over German court slaying
(CNN) -- Hundreds of Egyptians took part Monday in the funeral of Marwa Sherbini, an Egyptian woman who was stabbed to death last week in the German city of Dresden in a crime believed to be racially motivated.
Egyptians take part in the funeral of Marwa Sherbini, who was murdered in Germany last week.
Sherbini, 33, was stabbed to death Wednesday in a courtroom as she prepared to give testimony against a German man of Russian descent whom she had sued for insult and abuse.
The man, identified in German media as Alex A., 28, was convicted of calling Sherbini, who wore a headscarf, "terrorist," "bitch" and "Islamist" when she asked him him to leave a swing for her 3-year-old son Mustafa during an August 2008 visit to a children's park.
He was fined and appealed the ruling. The two were in court Wednesday for that appeal when Alex A. attacked, pulling out a knife and stabbing Sherbini 18 times. He also stabbed her husband three times and attacked another person.
According to Arab media, police officers tried to intervene to end the fight, and a number of shots were fired. One hit the husband, who fell unconscious and is currently in intensive care in the hospital of Dresden University.
Sherbini was three months pregnant at the time of her death.
Hundreds attended Sherbini's funeral in Alexandria, Egypt, her hometown, among them government officials, including Egyptian Manpower Minister Aisha Abdel Hadi and Telecommunications Minister Tariq Kamel, Egyptian media reported.
Many shouted hostile slogans against Germany and called for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to take a firm stand on the incident. Egypt's grand mufti, Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, demanded the severest punishment to be issued against Alex A.
Berlin witnessed angry protests on Saturday, when hundreds of Arabs and Muslims demonstrated after a funeral prayer that called her killing an outrageous racist murder against Muslims.
In a phone call with Al Arabiya, Marwa's brother, Tariq Sherbini, said, "Extremism has no religion. My sister was killed simply because she wore the veil. This incident clearly shows that extremism is not limited to one religion or another and it is not exclusively carried out by Muslims."
"We are only asking for a fair punishment," he said, adding that his sister was not a radical. "She was a religious woman who prayed and wore her headscarf, but she was killed because of her belief."
Anger about Sherbini's death smoldered online, as Twitterers and bloggers pushed the cause.
"She is a victim of hatred and racism," tweeted Ghada Essawy, among many other Arab twitters and bloggers. Essawy called Sherbini "the martyr of the veil."
Various videos circulated on YouTube calling on Egypt to take action and urging Germany to address what their makers saw as a new wave of hatred against Arabs and Muslims in its community.
One video showed various pictures of a young happy Marwa saying that "The woman stood up for her rights and she was killed. May God bless her." The English font in the video presentation asked "when will Egypt cares for its citizens' rights inside Egypt and abroad."
Sherbini and her husband moved to Dresden in 2003, after the husband received a grant to study genetic engineering in the renowned Max Planck Institute. He was scheduled to present his Ph.D. thesis in the coming days.
Source: CNN
Right, so basically the stuff you wrote (mostly) on page 1, as the dude is what I am talking about when I referred to you 'twisting' thing in a similar fashion to western 'security' services.
In this particular case there is no underlying case of any incident in the past except for one ausländer hating on another ausländer in Germany. And in reality it would have been nothing more even if the killer was a German.
This particular case has no effects that come from the arguments you made. Maybe in other cases they do. But not this one.
But similar to some of the daft 'security' services in the west you have taken an isolated case and sought deeper meaning when there really is none for some ulterior motive that I may have an idea of but cannot be certain.
You want to twist the killing of Pym Fortuyn or Theo van Gogh into a larger context then by all means that is highly logical... But not in this instance.
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
Merry Can,
Ehyeh asher ehyeh = Hebrew = I AM THAT I AM
I thought you would appreciate it if presented in these words.
And yes, you also know me as 'the dude', but he has been assassinated by 'big brother'.
Revolting and gross..keep yapping!!
Salam
No I didn't F-U. English only in the main forums there buddy... And you didn't answer my question. See, I cannot properly answer your question until I know that his posts are your posts... You both use lame photographs but your 'writing style' seems slightly different... But I am not one whom you will find assuming these things...
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
Amerrycan,
Did you already google my last reaction to you...?
The one of 11:28
:-)
I thought it was a properly provocative response.
Amen Life.
Protest in Egypt, and face the terror of 'martial law'. It is funny how one of the nations which the richest history in the world continues to depreciate.
...is - Please prevent your protesting people from killing 2000 more people in your own countries to protest the death of one person in a foreign country.It would be stupid if it happens.Don't mix religion with politics. Let Germany take care of the incident.
Life is Beautiful...Indeed!
Amerrycan,
Ehyeh asher ehyeh
I'm sorry F-U, are you not a recarn of the dude?
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
"Various videos circulated on YouTube calling on Egypt to take action and urging Germany to address what their makers saw as a new wave of hatred against Arabs and Muslims in its community"
I wonder why we are not allowed, according to His Highnasty Abu American and companions, to discuss a broader spectrum of this issue, when the article itself clearly indicates this direction.
Anyway, it remains a horrible event.
The unrealistic outcry of Egyptians online and in Egypt was yet another 'storm in a glass of water', maybe this is in line with their perception of mourning. So we just sit back, and let it pass, like gas.
I'm so waiting for one of you three to say "Well I'm rubber and your glue....."
What 'shit' did I twist Merry?
It amazes me you have thumbs Abu.
F-U,
If I didn't know any better I would assume you work for a western 'security service'...
You twist shit up just as well as they do....
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
And there we go again with your misplaced feelings of superiority.
When do you stop making a clown out of yourself?
If you keep on being a 'bad apple' in intelligent conversations, on multiple topics, simply because you can't follow I will focus on you and play a bit with you.
The only thing I do is adapting myself to your level, that's all.
You have been corrected by some already, yet ignore their advices.
Lol Abu, it is fun how you try to mirror your incompetence(s) onto others.
Your a funny one.
Here is an overall impression of who is Abu, it fits perfect
Abu loves Bruce because, finally somebody who sticks to the subject and does not confuse him with all sorts of sub-discussions.
Abu, I have a difficult one for ya...
who blamed all Germans?
infact we love many many things about Germany.
Ok i try to make logically for you.
Murder - of whatever reason - is absolutely unforgivable bullshit. Racial discrimination and religious discrimination should be no option for any human being.
This kind of discrimination is no German-only problem.
By the way this guy wasn't even German... but this doens't matter anyhow. It just makes the "being angry about Germany-thing" pretty foolish.
So let's talk about court room security. You don't get x-rayed nor metal detectors for this kind of insult-lawsuites. Insult-lawsuites of "WHATEVER-kind" are common. If I make an insult-lawsuite against someone who called me whatever I also don't get protected. So if it turns out this guy is sick in the head and stabs me in the court - i don't get treated better because i am a German. I don't really get the point of this whole childish accusations. In the whole world stuff like this happens...just look at Russia. And no one marches on the streets for all the things that happend over all counrties. This is just again a Media Hype Hate Campaign, that ideally settles in minds of people that don't question what they hear or read about.
By the way... blaming all Germans for something that one person has done is pretty much RACISM.
Stone,
Since you mentioned China's issue, I was about to throw up last night when I listened to an American official, infront of the white house, expressing support of what muslims were facing in China! Ironically, he did not support Muslims in Palestine under the Israeli genocide!
They are humans only when they are allowed to and by what dictates thier interests! regardless of honor and honesty!
Conlusively, its the hatred for religion, the factor. New one is brewing up in China and its religion as well. Obviously, there is a single hatred that the rest would like to exterminate. Looks like its "Islam against the West, or Islam against the Rest?"
Umm,
Left is often Humanist/Christian/Socialist
Extreme Right is often Nationalistic
Although Extreme Left may have lots in common with Extreme Right.
The movement to the right in Europe....
It is fear of loss of territory, fear of loss of identity, fear of becoming a stranger in own country.
The multi-cultural aspect is not everlasting, it expands until it implodes, it is bound to happen, the question is when, and at what cost? It could be done peaceful, but it is likely going to be a struggle.
In 1928 when Hitlers party, NSDAP, won the elections because of poverty, unrest and a recession. Hitler managed to revive the country and won the hearts and minds of the peoples, and the consequences of Hitlers' election are known. God forbid we ever see anything like that again.
not much longer and the Germans become the minority , they don't want to have kids anymore and the foreigners do!
As for Europe going to the right, it's just because of fear of existence and lack of jobs and lack of stability, also
a lot of jalousie , some of the Germans think the foreigner don't deserve the same things coming to Germany and just take .... a lot of misconceptions .
This Russian guy probably was just mad because the Egyptian man had a better job and was doing better then him ( who knows) and the Russian don't like that .
I have seen and heard it when they first came rushing into Germany, they thought the grass is greener on the other side and it wasn't !
Ongoing discussion, nice!!!
Mykke is correct, multi-cultural societies have limits, the bucket is overflowing in Europe and slowly but securely you see Europe moving to the right side of the political spectrum, the nationalistic side which pleads for preservation and superiority of domestic culture.
It is sociological/ethnological psychology that can predict future events, it is history that teaches us what happens with minority groups that become too large or too dominant, genocide is the most horrible consequence.
This incident might be isolated, might have nothing to do with the previously stated, however this incident, combined with numerous other racial incidents and domestic issues with minorities, can serve as a warning for governments that action must be taken in order to avoid further decay of society.
To understand this, you must be able to "think out of the box" and not focus on the incident alone. Hence the logical sidetrack in which this discussion has landed.
mmyke - Its nothing about tit for tat in this one...
And I totally refuse to buy tht " incompatible" talk....
There are many Muslims in west and west being a Democratic world... don think anybody has a right to stop people from practicing their religion...
unless it is causing harm to the national integrity and weakens national security in any way.
Wht happened in Germany.... as Gypsy says... jus shows the Courtroom in Germany is not as potent and powerful as it should be under Democratic governance.
Raising wrongs in Islam wont hide the fact tht all countries are barbaric in one way or the other...
And Racism and discrimination is a big issue in the west.
___________________________________________
Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
its like pickin' crows off on a fence...:)
mmyke,
so this is your definition of a responsible discussion! how educated.
MMYKE,
I live in the west and see, everyday in fact, proof against what you are writing about. The two can co-exist side by side no problems as long as each group of people understand and acknowledge that respect for the others is paramount.
Have you ever truly lived in a multicultural society or are you a monday morning QB?
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
that this whole line of dealing with CBD is rather odd, entertaining and sometimes silly. He has no winning postion, just the same old silliness.
its got nothing to do with German society,,,,its what happens when 2 incompatible societies come together, and 1 tries to force its issues on the others,,,it never works,,plain and simple...
so, CBD can go dig a couple of holes and bury people up to their waist and neck respectfully, film it, pu tit on Youtube for all to see, argue that its superior, and then try to support it to others that know better.
It simple won't and doesn't cut it in the West becaus ewe know better.
The King can pretend he is a pauper, but the pauper cannot pretend he is the King.
It almost seems like all this verbal feces that people are uttering in this thread is almost an uncontrolled reflexive response... Like when you bang that bone in your knee and your leg moves.
And the funny thing is... how many people have come on this thread and said that, 'this is a reflection of German society on a whole?'
Do some of you people just write things to attain points and see your words on the internet similar to the person who speaks just to hear their own voice??
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
another ignorance. Islam puts allowances for human mistakes and if you examine the criteria that should be met in order to stone someone, you would probably change your views. It is when people become so careless in maintaining integirty of societies to the extent they don't respect the norms and spreading social diseases.
CBD vs Gypsy - Issue Zionists/women's rights -Gypsy gave up
CBD vs Scarlett - Issue Women's rights - Scarlett gave up
CBD vs Miss X - Issue Women's right - Miss X gave up
CBD vs Popcorngal - Issue "I don remember" - It was a draw
CBD vs many others - Issues - Many - Everyone gives up....
Waiting to see results of CBD vs mmyke. . . .
Lets see how long does this one last... before mmyke gives up or commits suicide... :)
___________________________________________
Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
I had to come back...
so you only stone married people,,,,
thats might nice of you!
mmyke,
you are ignorant. Stoning is for married people who have an affair and it goes equally for men and women.
so now you escape a "responsible" discussion!
not surprised by an ignorant.
be a stoning...
ok, Have a good day,,fun to chat
mmyke,
ofcourse it would be different! not stabbing her 18 times! and it depends on which muslim society you are referring to and under what circumstances! definitely not in court.
With Qatar being a muslim country, I don't believe she will be killed or dealt with brutally. I would expect, and I am a human whom prediction may not be very accurate, that police will force her to prison or something equivalent.
Now tell me, what do you think would happen to the bikini lady in a muslim society? I answered!
I agree it is a terrible event and it's too bad. I can imagine that in Germany like the US they have to be PC in everything they do and they couldn't search him because it would be "racial profiling" or something stupid like that. Or they can't search him unless they can search her etc.
If you have ever seen a someone stab sommone else it doesn't take long, it's not like in the movies where it is in slo-mo and as the story says they did hit the husband, so they did react, shooting in a crowd that is in a panic is not easy. Screw a life sentence, an eye for an eye. Yes I know all you beautiful people are already in an uproar about the death sentence but at least if he is dead he won't get anyone else.
Whoever seeks to set one race against another seeks to enslave all races.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
1882-1945, Thirty-second President of the USA
CBD,,,what would be the first thing that would happen to a woman wearing a bikini, or even going topless while walking down the street in a muslim village or town?
Tell me honestly.
Would the consequences be much different than what happened in Germany?
Again, I am being completely neutral here....I just want to know if you will admit it,,,which is the first step to responsible discussions...:)
mmyke,
something you should note in your example earlier, even a local lady cannot wear bikini and be allowed in public. In fact, she will be dealt more agressively than anyone else.
Therefore, banning the bikini is not against any specific culture!
I have to go soon, but these people oppress each other in their own culture,,,burn schools, never allow women to enjoy their own lives,,, confine and abuse each other,,,and they are taking it to the western countries who are nice enough to let them in on humanitarian grounds....and then while there, they try to re-create their system of opression and brutality.
So, objectively, how would you expect people who live rather nice lives dealing with this?
Again, I am completely objective, but give me an answer on this.
thats baloney!
These people bomb each other where there are no westerners around,,,they are just exporting their behaviour to where the planes now take them.
NO! thats not what I am saying at all.
What I am saying is that there is a real problem brewing, with very clear reasons, and no-one wants to clearly acknowledge whatthese reasons are, even though they are painted in big letters for all to see.
I think that it is going to get a lot worse in fact.
mmyke,
you cannot compare a woman wearing bikini to another woman wearing hijab! this is just an execuse.
suicide bombers act out of human nature. thier land and properties are stripped by force! their relatives are being killed! infornt of the world!
If Israelis did not kill them no one would die! There is a reason for everything they do!
When you examine the reason then you may make a conslusion.
thats because Westerners don't act out of Christianity, but out of fustration because someone else is impacting their lives in the name of a foreign religion and culture. I believe that the west has abandoned religion to the degree that Muslims still practice it, such as believing in the words of the Bible as being those of God, or whatever. That is now gone. There has been an upshoot of religious fanatism in the southern USA, but that has its roots in another issue. So when Western people's "space' is being pushed by another culture with completely foreign values, norms and beliefs, in their own country, these things happen. It is basic sociology and criminology.
What would happen if western women moved into a muslim neighbourhood, and only wore bikinis in public, because their tribal and religions beliefs told them to absolutely do so. What would happen then?
I am not voicing a personal opinion here, as I really don't have one, I am very neutral on this issue, but it does explain a lot of angst that western people feel now that they are living with many new muslim people who have lately moved into their neighbourhoods....I think its rather obvious, don't you?
Do you people not investigate the story? The man "alex" was a russian not a german. What a bunch of rubes...
mmyke,
we do not judge West by this crime which was committed by an individual. I would like you to keep an eye on the media.
They never mention Christianity terrorism like they mention Islam Terrorism. Any act by a muslim, which might of an individual, will be tied to Islam. However, when a Christian does the same, they don't tie it to Christianity.
I don't condemn any religion or belief, but Western media should be consistent.
get killed all the time in non-western countries,,Sudan, Yeman,,Egypt...and lots of other places,,,thrown in detention on trumped up charges,and nothing gets done about that.
Is this not correct?
Alexa,
look at the root causes! if you are referring to suicide bombers in Palestine for example, then you cannot compare them to this criminal. A Palestinian suicide bomber is reacting to a brutal act by Israelis, a death in the family or something equivalent not like this bigoted guy!
You cannot compare the two!
I believe the US should have declared war on global terror at all, but they never been sincere anyway. I am not locked up in this location but what a pitty to see people get decieved by media and evil governments.
brit you are so right, something went horrible wrong.
I mean think about it ,how on earth can the guy have time to stab the women 18 times , what was the security doing?!!!!
were they watching, did anybody try to stop him, hold him back or did they just stand by and watched the show!!!
That is what is been driving me crazy ,how could it be that ONLY the husband was able to do something.
I just can't picture this whole thing in my head
The Egyptians have a right to be angry. However, this was an isolated case of an innocent person being physically attacked by someone with pure hatred in their heart.
The German authorities must take their share of the blame as far as lack of security and protection of the victim are concerned.
The sad fact is that Racial Attacks occur all over the world.
mmyke you joking right?
is considered like the Bikini here???
Perhaps the veil should only be worn behind an enclosure and not in public,,,??
I was in Germany when this happened! Just found out tonight upon my return!
what a sad miserable ugly crime!
This crime is undoubtedly of racial nature.
I believe Germans are friendly people and I do not doubt thier sympathy with Marwa.
It is good to see German highest officials condemn this act in explicit terms. I mean it is logical but given western gov't hypocrisy it is classified as a big favour though it is a normal act.
Let us note that German govt hesitated for late response- they always have reasons!
Let us see how the west now handles this case and the media coverage.
I am sure, and we have already, they will say it is an individual act and does not represent Germans nor Europeans. I totally agree. But, how would the west media act if this crime was committed in Egypt for example?
Conclusion, if extremism exists in East to the extent wars are declared, then West has the same! Marwa is just an example! and is a timely example!
Now, if this criminal is not executed, he will have to spend rest of his life in jail, otherwise, I don't think Marwa's relatives will let him enjoy life if released for taking a pregnant mother's life infront of her husband and 3 year old boy! and if this happens, they will probably call them terrorists not factoring the root cause as we saw many times over and over again!
Damn! Does the human chest have enough capacity to hate so much to stab 18 times!
twats. But its not any governments fault there are still idiots around.The do-gooders have to take some of the blame for their human rights policies which allow things like this to happen.
And yes, sadly it is destroying my country big time :(
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Mr P... Never thought I would see you defending the policies that Nu Labour have used to destroy this country... =)
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
F-U.....
I summed up page one and explained for him.... But please inform me if I missed anything...
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
Still refusing to read page 1?
Shame.
As I stated Abu - read & understand page 1.
And since I am DONE with spending valuable energy on you, I will leave this thread with a visual message....... as I am under the impression this works better with you. You know, elementary school approach.
.
.
.
.
.
oh yeah , I just ignored him/ her , no need to give it any attention ;)
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
wow ,Mr. Paul ,it's called " being sarcastic "
LOL
Its people like you that are causing trouble in this world.
Amerrycan, that also is a stupid comment.Its not the governments fault that there are some racist nobheads in the world who do this kinda thing.
Thats just another stupid generalisation.
There are bad people in every country.
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Abu are you a moron or what??
Adolph Hitler committed suicide and so did Mohammad Atta and this woman committed suicide by wearing a hijab around a loon...
The liberal governments in western Europe's policies led to Qatari students getting killed in the UK (brits are decendants of Germans) and the Qatari students were muslims like the egyptian woman and they both died in Europe...
Do you need me to continue you silly, silly man!! How can you not see the connections!!!
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
Intellectually you have learned 'gar nichts' from the Germans Abu, so it seems.
-F-
we will take revenge........................................
INSHALLAH
Magic,
[sarcasm on]
Why don't go to the German Embassy, riot and lute while we burn German flags and demand the death=penalty!!
That would be the moral and ethical action to take as this is an unacceptable, once in a decade, incident in the horrible German Nation!!
BRING GASOLINE!!!
[sarcasm off]
Oh my god, you need to be spoon-fed. I refuse to as you have obviously read 5 words and started making shortsighted assumptions, which PM rightly pointed out
Gypsy, Vegas, Happy Happy, Stone Cold, Sim.Suz, Labda, PM and others, including myself (dude) are having a respectful conversation....
Until somebody enters the conversation with an insult
[quote]
"Some of you have the attention span of a TV commercial."
And continues with some "hell" and "wtf" remarks.
AH WAIT - ABU-TEMPER...
Directly after PM slaps you on the fingers with an excellent observation.
and you, sadly, keep on being whom you are
[quote]
"While you ignoramus morons banter"
So regardless if we are wrong or right, we all had a flowing conversation that, rightly, sidetracked a bit. You on the other hand seem to have a single brain-cell that allows you to focus on only one element and because you lack the ability (or knowledge) to engage in a civil discussion, your FIRST sentence is an insult followed by many.
Concluding, after you stepped in the quality and civility of our discussion went 'to hell'.
All the previously named individuals are wrong and [quote] ignoramus morons, as Abu in his infinite wisdom have been waiving his judgmental scepter of stubbornness.
Stay of the booze, your vision is blurry.
Let's all boycott Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi, Volkswagen, Opel, and Maybach! Let's make nails with heads. Talking is so cheap. Let's boycott Otto engines and Diesel engines! Let's boycott the Theory of Relativity. All these are f***ing German products!
Has been done already, that would require you to read and understand.
Have fun.
AbuAmerican,
It seems reading is easy, understanding is a second.
The connection hails from knowledge that relates to the topic, may it be political historical whatever.
The connection is linking the topic to an example, whether it is correct or not, in order to get a point across. Like lawyers may do in a court-case with similarities. Nobody says you have to agree, or participate, just do not disqualify arguments which you do not, so it appears, understand. It would be wiser to ask for a further explanation, after which you can agree yes or no.
But I have a feeling you may have some emotional relation to the topic and what has been said has hit a sensitive snare and caused you to rebel against the discussion instead of participating.
How far off am I?
I do not expect your answer to be honest, as you only 'smack' people around, which till now has been an enormously disappointing experience.......
AbuAmerican,
If you refuse to understand the (un)natural flow of a discussion and the contents/relations/connected topics just to 'win' a discussion, to set somebody up for a 'smack in the face', you are obviously fishing in the wrong pond. Maybe that will work on a forum for "The elementary school Debate Team".
As this reply is a desperate last attempt to twist you way out of a lost battle. Your preached 'smack' equals a feather landing on still water. Barely a wrinkle.
Abu, again... your connecting wrong dots. If a child can connect dots, why cant you?
Myke was responding to the discussion, not to the killing itself. He did not justify anything.
"I am just waiting for the response to smack em in the jaw"
In this comment lies infinite arrogance.
Once again,
Yes, a horrific act.
No, this is not representing Europe, Germany or Germans
No, violent rioting to put pressure on a government over an isolated incident is not accepted.
No, in Egypt they do not have the right to point their judgmental finger
Yes, Justice will take its course in accordance with German standards.
Yes, there are growing tensions between Europeans and specifically Muslims, thus it is only logic that this thread leads to related topics.
This was my reply, sharp as a stone - as you assumed beforehand.
Now, I give you my jaw.... smack it, AbuAmerican-hero.
Frankly I think the only real issue in this case (beyond the sad loss for the family) is Germany's court room security. That should really be the only thing there's an uproar about.
We live in a Sick world.... :(
He was wrong in calling her names...
She was wrong in taking it to police and making it a issue ...
The fellow was super wrong.... in stabbing... nothing justifyies tht....
And we the Super Human.. who are blessed with super power of turning any topic under the sun into
1. Islam vs Christianity...
2. West vs Islam... West vs ME.....
We don deserve anything good....
Sick people sick world....
Only scripture which makes sense...
Survival of Fittest - Darwin
Morality is Weapon Weak uses against the Strong - Plato. :(
___________________________________________
Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
...if you ask me...this is another classic case of a storm in a tea cup.Hundereds of people get killed everyday in crimes globally but none of them get talked about as this case. Now I'am not trying to be insensitive on the loss of a human life in such a tragic way but frankly,this is not an issue of national importance either to Egypt or to Germany. Some people are just making it an excuse to get their point across.
Life is Beautiful...Indeed!
Ah... Like a cat taunting a mouse.
Killing is never justified, racism is never justified. I think a lot of people (both European & Egyptian) are turning this into...the poster case, I guess, for a wider issue effecting Europe & the ME.
Which is sad.
Mmyke,
They do not wish to discuss ANYTHING other than the bastard that killed a Muslim Lady.
Related subjects are
[quote happy happy]
"irrelevant rambling"
that its not that Europe wants to be or remain Christian, it simply does not want to become Muslim, and unfortunately, thats exactly what Europeans see as coming their way,,,at least a major fight over it.
Dude is banned, for now, as expected. He'll be back, I hope with a better inoffensive language. I liked some of his thoughts.
Salam
Start a thread on Martial Law in Egypt, we can talk about it there, take it easy.
Salam
Hijacking?
What is Hijacking?
Irrelevant rambling? Did I touch a sensitive snare?
Where is the Dude? Sorry for the Hijack..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
You're hijacking the thread with irrelevant rambling, I'll be more than happy to entertain a conversation with you about Egypt, on another thread.
Have some respect for the dead and mutilated please.
Salam
UkEng,
I find that unbelievably stupid.
So, why don't you advice these people to solve their own problems in Egypt before starting to intervene with other countries.
Or do you think this would lead to brutal violence by your army against your population?
You get my point.
This issue is gone to Government level and one of Germany Minster is planning to meet Eyptian president to defend Germany's handling of this horrific incident..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
Yes, they are the same people under Martial Law for decades. Me too, I live under the same law but have a different view. Many of us do.
Salam
Happy Happy,
You know people who want him dead? Egyptians?
Are these the same people that have been living under Martial Law for decades? Are should these people not worry about "their own backyard"?
I highly doubt you'll see the sentence reduced. Not only is Egyptian/German relations at risk, but even more to the forefront (I'm assuming) is the embarrasment German law enforcement must be feeling. They'll want to make an example of this guy.
Somehow I think Germany will do well and the ruling will be as expected. I fervently hope so.
Salam
Only if the sentence is mitigated, would there be riots, otherwise, everything will be so stable.
Salam
I agree Happy Happy. He needs to live with the guilt of this. Also it will be interesting to see what happens when he get prison. My guess is there are some Turkish prisoners who would like to meet him.
My fingers are crossed that people will accept the ruling and no one else has to die. :(
People I know, want him dead, but I want him to suffer longer. The bottom line for me is that I want justice served, regardless if he's going to be sentenced to death or life. I cannot tailor the universe to my liking and preference.
Salam
:P I know YOU don't want him put to death Happy Happy lol. I mean OTHER Egyptians. I'm really afraid that this will cause the death of more people.
I don't want death, I want him sentenced for life. I'm against riots and demonstrations too. Very futile and meaningless.
Salam
It's unrealistic to expect another country to apply your standards of justice if they don't agree with them and it's immoral to react violently when they don't.
My worry is that that's what will happen.
Riots, for what? Why?
So, those whom immigrated and have established improved lives now wish to question the authority of the German Government by violence, thus cause damage to the hand that feeds them. Self-destructive behavior if you ask me.
In Egypt they push for revenge or justice according to Egyptian standards, how immoral and unrealistic is that?
It's not just us Abu:
"The local council here in Alexandria, the victim's hometown, has decided to name a street after her and the press is describing her as the 'Hijab Martyr'," she said.
"At least two protests are expected to take place in Alexandria and Cairo as this is being seen as a xenophobic and Islamophobic attack.
"People on the street and members of parliament are asking the government not to take the issue lightly."
Hundreds of mourners gathered for the funeral, some chanting "Down with Germany" and scuffling with police, witnesses said.
Happy Happy: That's what I'm afraid of. The death penalty isn't an option in Germany. Will they settle for less or will this lead to violent riots?
"If she was just stabbed once, I would have said this is a mad man, but the number of times she and her husband were stabbed reflects the extent of racism this man had in him," Tarek Sherbini, the victim's brother, said.
"Here in Egypt, we believe in 'an eye for an eye'. The least we expect is the death penalty for the murderer."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/07/20097612424648553.html
Salam
People should act responsibly. This is not an issue between Egypt and German nations.This is an issue between two individuals. The killer seems to be insane. Why are you guys making such a big deal out of it. It's not an issue of religion/race etc. People like Alex exist everywhere. It's so horrible wrong for an entire nation and the entire muslim world to get upset about this incident. Now don't tell me people are going to take to streets and demolish property and kill others because Alex killed Sherbini!!! Common guys...gimme a break!!
Life is Beautiful...Indeed!
I actually agree, that if one looks in a broader perspective one could connect some dots which will lead to a sub-discussion, which is in actuality more interesting than the current discussion. Hence, I see logic in the sidetrack in which this discussion has ended, some vary valid points are being made.
Your question is degrading, because according to your post you've classified humans (God's creation) based on nationality, religion and a passport holder or not?!
Is this how human dignity and lives are evaluated? You judge their situation after you've checked their passport and ran a background check?
This is a savage crime that took place in a courtroom, punishment should be maximized.
Enjoy discussing West vs. Islam!
Salam
The Dude, Abu see's Islam bashing everywhere. It's a bit of a crusade for him, ridding the world of perceived Islam bashing.
The Dude - good point about Mohammed Atta.
AbuAmerican,
I am happy you have "American" in your nick, that is why you are not able to understand the RELATED argumentation, as this would justify, for me, why you have limited understanding for the direction of this discussion. Racist remark? Maybe, truth... (up to the individual)
Why do we have to focus solely on the subject? Why do you fail to see relations between A & B? Why are you objecting against my stance against Egyptians that, in my eyes, overreact in Germany as well as Egypt, which happens a lot in Muslim countries whenever shit hits the van somewhere else in the world.
This horrific incident was an isolated incident, which does not occur every single day. But it does, in a way, relate to issues discussed in this topic. If you feel offended by any of these statements I can do nothing else but assume that you are one of those flag-burning shortsighted idiots that does not think but solely reacts.
Please prove me wrong.
some how I have the feeling this whole thing got out of per portions , it was a sick person letting out his hate on an easy victim and here we are again , BAD Germans, ohh a Muslim again , blah blah blah..... one thing has nothing to do with another ,
he was a sick bastard from Russia , those ppl are known to be very racist , they are beating down foreigners in their own country left and right. and unfortunately the poor women had to meet him ....I agree that is just very sad!
in this thread. I'm not sure why you feel the need to come and chastise everybody while not reading what is written..... ???? :-)
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
As has already been covered, dont judge nations by individuals, again another incident where extremist muslims try to turn another incident into a muslim vs rest of the world.
Like the cartoons incident when they were burning american flags and destroying american property, when the cartoons were published in Europe ROFLMAO!!!!!
As goes for the Egyptians they need to chill, both in Egypt and Germany....
Mohammed Atta resided in Germany, did the Germans call for a tough stance on Egypt? Did the Germans take to the streets and protest in order to kick out all Egyptians?
Aggressive protest by Egyptians in Germany is completely out of order, try to do that in Egypt, the country of martial law, and you are likely to be beat to death by an army of soldiers.
How horrific and emotional the incident may be, it is not right to disqualify an entire nation/government based upon the act of one.
How did he get a knife in to begin with and how did he have time to stab her 18 times without being shot by the court police? Yes, it speaks of terrible hatred on the part of the perp and completely inept court security; but my hope is that it is not used to create a further divide between Egypt and the West.
When the terrorist incident in Luxor happened in 1997, the situation was handled very appropriately in my view. Egypt stepped up its security and showed an intolerance for extremism, gradually drawing tourists back by showing that their well being mattered. I hope something similar will happen here.
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Why should people keep quiet when they feel assaulted? I'm not Muslim but if people feel wronged, they have every right to voice exactly how they feel. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
He can always claim he uses a knife to clean his teeth gum, or for trimming his nails, he would get away with it, in some other Non-European countries, hopefully not in Germany.
Salam
. . . nothing more to add
I’ve been to your country, I like it and don't like the rumors about the heartless tough Germans, I have a few friends there.
I've seen some problems between the Germans and the Turks, but these issues are perennial and have roots.
I believe the solution has to be thoroughly addressed by us, Muslims, in our region first, then export it to the whole world.
Salam
Gypsy...
Good point.
Please do not take the below disrespectful, it is merely an observation
The problem with Muslims is their short fuse, their inability to handle criticism. I never understood why in Indionesia (or so) they feel the need for burning flags for something that has happened across the world. Like with the Danish Cartoonist. He produced an image of 'allah', I disapprove it... but think people could choose to ignore it instead of creating mayhem across the world. How many cartoon images have I seen of Jesus? Loads and loads. Have I ever seen Christians protest violently? No. Have I ever seen Christian governments seen imposing boycotts because some one decided to make fun of Jesus? No.
In the Netherlands a Dutch guy got jailed for killing a very popular politician. People were upset, sure. But did they demand punishment? No. We know the judge will handle this.
A man drove into a crowd on queens-day in the Netherlands, killing and injuring many in an attempt to hit the Queen. He died after a day in the hospital, did the Dutch take to the streets and demand revenge on him? No. They simply stopped festivities and mourned by hanging flags halfway and let justice take its course.
but I think he wont be sentenced to life.
German law :-(
I doubt he'd get insane anywhere. It's awfully hard to prove insanity and this was premeditated. He'll get life.
I want him sentenced to life. Thank God this is Germany, in another country, the punishment most probably would've been admitting the murderer to a mental section somewhere, and that would be all into it.
Salam
. . . speaking of experience
He'll be sentenced to prison. Probably for life unless he can be proven to be insane, which I doubt. That won't be "enough" of a punishment and there will be riots in the street and demonstrations outside of German embassies across the Muslim world. More innocent people will die, and on and on and on.
I for one don't associate current Germany with Hitler. That's unfair stereotyping.
Salam
. . . that automaticly whenever somebody hears "germany" the first thing comes into their mind is Adolf Hitler :-(
The country is known for more than that - unfortunately we will carry this "image" for alot of years :-(
We'll see how Germany will handle it, that's an expensive lesson to demonstrate the court's loose almost non-existing security checks.
And then they blame the third world countries for being primitive, ironic, right?
Salam
If one knows that Europe is a Christian country then why take the trouble migrating and live there when you know that the local poulation dosen't like your presence. Just like us expatriates here in Qatar, we are here for a given number of years of contract. Once done then off we go. Even so most of us keeps a low profile in our everyday deeds here to avoid conflicting with the strict religious laws. Pressumably the man Alex A has some reservation to his anger, and that he is charged for something against his right to defend his own religion as well.
OK, ok! another nationality bashing again.
Good point Dude, I hesitated to mention the US & Canada as they seem to be dealing with the influx of new immigrants a bit better, and cultural conflicts as well, but then again, that's cause we've done it before.
I'll put up a picture of a scrawny stray dog in Doha, and let’s see how much sympathy it will draw here on QL.
No, I'm not against discussing and analyzing the reason, in fact this is the best way to approach it.
Salam
Happy Happy,
I did not see any of us approving or justifying this horrible act.
What do you wish our reaction to be?
"ohhhh ahhhhh haram, horrible"
I think that is pretty obvious.
Disgusting, absolutely not. We are merely taking this subject and look at a broader perspective.
Happy Happy -sorry but please clarify what u mean on the 'disgusting comments' part? It's not like anyone here has supported this poor woman's murder.
Indeed Gypsy,
Muslims asking for Sharia, there seem to be illegal Sharia courts now in Europe, is one hell of a big drop in an already overflowing bucket and will and shall not be excepted by natives.
Vegas,
A noble ideal. Yet naive.
First of, the US can NOT be compared to Europe as in essence Americans are all imported from Africa/Europe.
Second, do we get along here or does the type of government we are under secure that we are getting along?
All expats are here knowing that we should not demand anything and that our stay will be merely temporary, which is why we do not have many demands. Personally, I think the Emirati government have learned from the mistakes of Europe and ensured their superiority within their own borders. A damn smart move if you ask me.
What do you want me to say Happy Happy? I'm sorry she was killed, it's an unfortunate thing to happen. But I don't see why discussing the reasonings behind it's happening is disgusting.
And they lived in one part of town.
And a few italians with the best food ever...
You can't teach experience...
I think there's a slight issue with the fact that the populations in the West are ageing as well. Old people generally aren't very adaptive.
Also the Western mindset is, if it doesn't hurt me go ahead, so (from what I've seen) some of the Muslim immigrants have taken that inch and turned it into a mile, calling for Shariah law and such.
For a liberal like me the idea of having Shariah law imposed in my country is quite scarey.
You can't teach experience...
Disgusting and unexpected comments in response to a crime like this one.
Salam
Indeed Gypsy,
The liberal governments in Europe have turned it into a mess.
Post WW2 we have seen economic growth which has led to more jobs than we could handle, now we imported labor from everywhere and decided around the 70's that these people should become nationals as they should have the same rights and benefits as others, a christian influence. Regardless of beliefs or nationality, people could get the passport. What these politicians did not think of what was the result after 30 years (now) and what would be the result after 100 years as they expected people to assimilate and integrate properly, of course the reality was slightly different. So, now we have second/third generation Moroccans, Turkish, Africans, Syrians and such which are mainly Muslims, now Muslims have deeper roots when it comes to culture and religion and will often stick to these. The biggest issue is that Europeans loose their religion, and do not really care all that much about traditions. In effect you see that the Christians poop out 1.5 babies to 2.5 babies, opposed to a higher number in the 60/70's and Muslims still have a higher birth rate. In effect eventually the Muslim population will outgrow the Christian population, which can only mean:
TROUBLE.
Agree with you Gypsy! :)
The world is a melting pot and we better start to learn to get along...Like we do here in Doha...
You can't teach experience...
it would have been hushed up and brushed under the carpet....
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
I agree with The Dude, many people in Europe and other parts of the West are beginning to feel that their lives are being encroached upon by Muslims immigrating to their countries. No different then many locals here feel that the West is encroaching on theirs.
jonboy and baldrick2dogs, true.
But lets see how Germany reacts to such horrific behavior.
What would happen if a Local stabbed a German here in Qatar, in a shopping mall?
A sad incident...
Unfortunately, this is in line with growing cultural intolerance in Western Europe.
I am predicting loads and loads of troubles between European natives and immigrant Muslims in Europe. Why Muslims, because it is the biggest expat community, even though many are nationals and hold the passport, narrow minded politicians and the followers still consider them "aliens".
Europe's multi-cultural bucket is full, it is overflowing. Countries are loosing their identity and have more and more problems to satisfy all needs of all cultures. Germany has imposed "LEITKULTUR" meaning that the German Culture is considered supreme and should be adopted by its residents.
Why do I say this?
1 - Politically Europe is shifting largely to the right.
2 - More and more incidents between cultures and cultures are happening
3 - It is only logic that "ages" come to an end and that a local population will start to object when they see their identity fade and have to start to adapt to subcultures.
4 - Global Recession and the related consequences.
Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Austria and similar are fine examples of countries where nationalistic behavior is becoming stronger and stronger.
It is a sad outlook, it is sad this has to happen (is happening) and I only hope that Europe will be able to solve these issues sooner than later.
+1 jonboy, you beat me to it and saved me venting my spleen. one person does not represent a nation.
Just wondering what the security were doing to allow him the time to stab her 18 times....were they out the back having a ciggie?
Chuck,
Exactly! Why accuse entire nation(s) of this very sad incident?!
The killer does not represent any nation, only himself!
Just wondering how insane was he to stab 18 times the poor lady, inside the court room?!
It's not really Germany's fault that some retard killed someone in their country, just like it wasn't Britain's fault when some lad killed the young Qatari student last year..
People need to cool their jets a bit and think. Are they really pissed off at the crime per say or is it another chance for a Islam / Christianity holy war.....
sorry to offend you chuck.
I don't hate all germans but I do hate germans who still praises Hitler
johnpur - i would like to disagree with you on your comments. Yes there are racist people in Germany, but then there are many racist people all over the world. And have you ever been to Germany yourself? have you ever had first hand experience of many different germans? Whereas there are still some neo-Nazis in Germany, on the basis of having lived in that country myself (and I am half egyptian too), i never experienced problems. Unfortuantely the world is a very imperfect place, and people will come across hatred just becuase of the choices they have made. The point we should be focussing on here, rather than what u might think germans are, is that an innocent pregnant woman has been murdered in cold blood in front of her family because of racism. Not becuase some guy kissed hitler's ass.
But this comment worries me more....
"Egypt's grand mufti, Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, demanded the severest punishment to be issued against Alex A."
First up, this mufti cannot demand anything against the citizen of another nation,who will be sentenced in line with GERMAN LAW.Which in turn may lead to a lot of trouble from some people who will think that justice hasnt been served....
I really do hope Im wrong tho'.When I was living in Germany back in the nineties, there was enough trouble between the Germans and the Turk muslims as it was, without more trouble now.
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
these guys are loyalists of adof "the lunatic" hitler
There is more to come, it won't stop there!
Salam
My family and I have been following it up on local channels and CNN, our local newspapers have been tackling it as well. There is uproar and anger throughout Egypt, over this unforgivable crime!
Salam