--now lets move on the next level:Gay Marriage--Same Sex Marriages may be officiated by church officials, or anyone else, but ceremonial marriages in and of themselves involve no civil laws and carry no legal benefits or responsibilities.
and look what thread did they pick up now :) It is either they were hunting the thread itself or hunting the author of it :) If it is the second case then let me now :)
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. (Gautama Buddha)
ACtually Islam acknowledge a person becoming attracted to the same sex. And agrees that it is very common and desirable among the people at times. However, Islam also tells us to control our desires for the greater good! Which is why being homosexual is outlawed.
As homosexual acts are not natural (although some people desire them).
'they' decide to revolt on the church...break the rules...kick religion away from 'their' lives...
so 'they' start committing & living in adultry...
bring illegitimate children to this world...
but that's not enough....'they' want more 'freedom'
'they' turn to homosexuality....gays & lesbians...
'they' start to live with 'their' homosexual partners
now 'they' want to get married to them!!!
So they are back to square 1: marriage...which they have 'freed' 'themselves' from when 'they' started revolting!
so now we have ended up with:
marriage between males & females is ugly, old-fashioned & retarded!
marriage between homosexuals is nice, cool & open-minded.
This is why I have so much respect to Islam. It has always predicted that times will come when 'right' will be considered 'wrong', and 'wrong' will be considered 'right'
...very well presented and, almost, completely flawed.
There is not one word in that well written article which can actually be shown to be true, in other words, proven.
There is no absolute scientific proof that gays are born and there is no absolute scientific proof that they are created. There are indications, theories, extrapolations and plenty of guesses but no proof...for either side. How "gayness" happens is still open for conjecture. I imagine there is more than one way.
There is scientific proof that they do exist now and have existed in the past. We can speculate that there will be gays in the future and that there were gays in prehistory, but we have no way to prove that.
Those articles state opinion, which is just fine since everybody is entitled to theirs. Just don't confuse it with proof.
“In short, the gay lifestyle - if such a chaos can, after all, legitimately be called a lifestyle - it just doesn’t work: it doesn’t serve the two functions for which all social framework evolve: to constrain people’s natural impulses to behave badly and to meet their natural needs. While it’s impossible to provide an exhaustive analytic list of all the root causes and aggravants of this failure, we can asseverate at least some of the major causes. Many have been dissected, above, as elements of the Ten Misbehaviors; it only remains to discuss the failure of the gay community to provide a viable alternative to the heterosexual family.” (Kirk and Madsen, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of the Gay’s in the 90s, p.363)
The authors of this book published in 1989 self-identify as gay. Kirk graduated from Harvard University in 1980. Madsen has taught on the faculty of Harvard University. He is a public-communications expert, designed commercial advertising for Madsen Avenue, and guided strategy for the Positive Images Campaign. This campaign was the first national gay advertising effort in American. The following quote from the introduction of their book along with the title of the book perhaps gives a very strong indication of the authors’ belief in a homosexual agenda. Perhaps this may be their motivation for writing the book.
“The campaign we outline in this book, though complex, depends centrally upon a program of unabashed propaganda, firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising.” (Kirk and Madsen, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of the Gay’s in the 90s, p.xxvi)
These two quotes are just a sampling of many others written in books and articles published by those who advocate for homosexuality or self-identify as gay that may be read on this web site. Larry Houston who is writing the articles on this web site self-identifies as a former homosexual. His story may be read in the section, Larry’s story. This section also includes an article about Larry facing discrimination at Harvard University for being an ex-gay. In the section Overcoming Homosexuality are articles helpful not only to those struggling with homosexuality but also to anyone who desires a better understanding about homosexuality. The section Legal and Political has articles Larry uses lobbying the Massachusetts State Legislature on the issue of same-sex marriage. This section also has documents that were apart of a direct legal challenge to Goodridge, the legal case that resulted in allowing same-sex marriage in Massachusetts by judicial decree, 4 non-elected Massachusetts judges. The parameters of a discussion of homosexuality are best framed in the following way. Who one is, a homosexual or what one does, homosexuality. The support is strongest for the latter. The following quotes are by a man who self-identifies as gay. John D’Emilio is a university professor, author, and a gay historian. He too agrees that it is homosexuality, what one does. Homosexuality is an illegitimate attempt to meet the legitimate need for intimacy in same-sex relationships.
“There is another historical myth that enjoys nearly universal acceptance in the gay movement, the myth of the “eternal homosexual.” The argument runs something like this: Gay men and lesbians always were and always will be. We are everywhere; not just now, but throughout history, in all societies and all periods. This myth served a positive political function in the first years of gay liberation. In the early 1970s, when we battled an ideology that either denied our existence or defined us as psychopathic individuals or freaks of nature, it was empowering to assert that “we are everywhere.” But in recent years it has confined us as surely as the most homophobic medical theories, and locked our movement in place. Here I wish to challenge this myth. I want to argue that gay men and lesbians have not always existed. Instead they are a product of history, and have come into existence in a specific historical era. Their emergence is associated with the relations of capitalism; it has been the historical development of capitalism-more specifically, its free-labor system-that has allowed a large numbers of men and women in the late twentieth century to call themselves gay, to see themselves as part of a community of similar men and women, to organize politically on the basis of that identity.” (D’Emilio, Making Trouble Essays on Gay History, Politics, and the University, p.5)
“I have argued that lesbian and gay identity and communities are historically created, as a result of a process of capitalist development that has spanned many generations. A corollary of this argument is that we are not a fixed social minority composed for all time of a certain percentage of the population. There are more of us than one hundred years ago, more of us than forty years ago. And there may very well be more gay men and lesbians in the future. Claims made by gays and nongays that sexual orientation is fixed at an early age, that large numbers of visible gay men and lesbians in society, the media, and the schools will have no influence on the sexual identities of the young are wrong. Capitalism has created the material conditions for homosexual desire to express itself as a central component of some individuals’ lives; now, our political movements are changing consciousness, creating the ideological conditions that make it easier for people to make that choice.” (D’Emilio, Making Trouble Essays on Gay History, Politics, and the University, p.12)
Inventing the “Homosexual” and Identifiting a "Homosexual" are the two main sections on banap. The above two quotes are used more than once in these two sections. Inventing the “Homosexual” is a historical look of people and events that traces the history of homosexuality. The concept of homosexuality has a very short history, the word “homosexual” was coined in the late 1860s in Germany. The section Identifying a “Homosexual” has articles contianing information by those advocating for homosexuality attempting to to provide support for the ideal of a distinct individual, called a homosexual. In this section you will find information for a biological basis for homosexuality. The section, Bibliography, is an alphabetical list of sources used in compiling the information for banap. The number of sources is large so this section has two articles. One article is a list of books, and the second is a list of journal articles. Thank you for visiting banap.net This web site is regularly being revised and updated. Plans are being made to publish this information in a book form. banap.net is a resource for those seeking a greater understanding of “homosexuality.” Homosexuality is an illegitimate attempt to meet the legitimate need for intimacy in same-sex relationships.
“What is possible, given the collective limitations of these three studies, is to conclude that there appears to be some significant differences between children raised by lesbian mothers versus heterosexual mothers in their family relationships, gender identity, and gender behavior.” (Belcastro et al. “A Review of Data Based Studies Addressing the Affects of Homosexual Parenting on Children’s Sexual and Social Functioning.” p.119.)
“The author suggests that these studies have ignored significant potential effects of gay childrearing on children, including increased development of homosexual orientation in children, emotional and cognitive disadvantages caused by the absence of opposite-sex parents, and economic security.” (Wardle, “The Potential Impact of Homosexual Parenting on Children.” p.833)
“Even in a utopian society, however, one difference seems less likely to disappear: The sexual orientation of parents appears to have a unique (although not large) effect on children in the politically sensitive domain of sexuality. The evidence, while scanty and underanalyzed, hints that parental sexual orientation is positively associated with the possibility that children will be more likely to attain similar orientation - and theory and common sense also support such view.”(Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.177-178)
It is the two sociologists, Stacy and Biblarz, who acknowledge their bias in that they support homosexual parenting. Stacy and Biblarz admit that there are flaws in the homosexual parenting studies, “We have identified conceptual, methodological, and theoretical limitations in the psychological research on the effects of parental sexual orientation . . .” They believe it is homophobia and heterosexism that prevents homosexual parenting from being on par with heterosexual parenting. So for them it is not homosexuality itself that prevents good parenting, but the society and culture, even though our society and culture today allows unprecedented historical acceptance of homosexuality. What is most surprising of all, are their comments that “social sciences research” is not grounds for determining the effects of homosexual parenting on children in the political consideration of granting parental rights for homosexual parenting. They are sociologists themselves.
“We agree, however, that ideological pressures constrain intellectual development in this field. In our view, it is the pervasiveness of social prejudice and institutionalized discrimination against lesbians and gay men that exerts a powerful policing effect on the basic terms of psychological research and public discourse on the significance of parental orientation. The field suffers less from overt ideological convictions of scholars than from the unfortunate intellectual consequences that follows from implicit hetero-normative presumptions governing the terms of the discourse - that healthy child development depends upon parenting by a married heterosexual couple.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.160)
“On contrary, we propose that homophobia and discrimination are the chief reasons why parental sexual orientation matters at all.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.177)
“Even were heterosexism to disappear, however, parental sexual orientation would probably continue to have some impact on the eventual sexuality of children.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.178)
“Thus, while we disagree with those who claim that there are no differences between children of heterosexual parents and children of lesbigay parents, we unequivocally endorse their conclusion that social science research provides no grounds for taking sexual orientation into account in the political distribution of family rights and responsibilities.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.179)
“For well over a century homosexualists have dreamed that the invention of the homosexual as a person would ultimately detoxicate homosexual behavior and win a place of equality alongside heterosexual behavior.” (De Ceeo, “Confusing the Actor With the Act: Muddled Notions About Homosexuality”, p. 411)
Believe it or not, I mostly agree with it too. No good can come from people proclaiming about what they don't understand themselves. Religion is, by its very nature, deeply personal. To insult ones religious beliefs, is to insult the very core of that person.
As far as I can see, so far nobodys mind has been changed about anything in these threads. It's great to present ones opinion as long as you realise everyone else is free to disagree. This especially seems to hold true for religious beliefs.
I think the easiest way to keep things relatively civil would be if we kept things on a secular level.
For God's sake man, educate yourself before posting any comment, you're just making a fool out of yourserlf...Gay parents not neccessarily culture gay sons. i myself know of a couple, very good friends of mine, who live in france and have an adopted son, who is now 29 years old, married and has his own children. Just because you have some twisted theory in your mind doesn't make it true to the world.By the way, can you also post an experiment or a study backing up your theories?!! I thought so...Thanks.
The words you write in your comments, you should repeat to yourself: "None but ourselves can free our minds..."
Saud, you have fought and won with due observation on the conduct of a good communicator. I really admire you. I have confidence you can do much to protect Islam and Muslim belief from ridicule.
Two days ago i posted a thread on how to prevent Islam from ridicule and i am glad you are doing it. Although Darude sometimes is i dont know what to say ...
Brother it is necessary to avoid using Quran quotes or Sacred teaching of Islam in forums like QL with elements which are just out to tanish and ridicule Islam out of no where.
Therefore lets use 'nature' 'human rights' 'logical reasoning' to convince others.
In my thread: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/14336 you'll read Quran quotes and i wrote them for Muslims only, I promise not to repeat that again.
I ask you to join my campaign of not giving OTHERS a chance to ridicule and Insult to Islam in QL. I know they may create a chance of their own and satisfy their chieve their ego, but thats them and as they put it, they are free to hurt and heal, and they to continuosly hurt because they don't have 'heal' and don't know how to. I am thinking also of talking to some concerned people to seek their opinion on what should be done in this regard. Its too much and so hurting.
I wish i could convince 'qatari' to filter words like Allah, Quran, Jesus and make sure they're respected, just like filtering the f*** and s*** factors.
Excuse me Privet??? I get my ideas from a Glossy Mag? And what does that make you? Oh Ya! A fat middle aged English bore, divorced once because his Western woman probably couldn't stand being his mommy too and waiting for a submissive Asian to fawn over him.
Get a life dude.
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Gypsy, the western women I was referiing to was you, a modern sterotype, glossy mag reader is where you get your ideas of the modern woman and live by it, it screams out the page! It's the high level western womens insitute conspiracy theory to pervert the minds of young women, and to down grade men. Gays are Ok though, they sit on the fence!
I grew up in a poor area too, and most of the kids are trouble making losers now, their kids following suit. It dosen't happen in all cases, yes some choose to do the opposite to their parents, I still to this day completely disagree with my parents, they grew up in a small mining vilage and were ignorant of the outside world, they didn't want me to go to college because they didn't want to support me, so i worked and went to college. It's difficult to say a child will do this or that, but with sexuality you follow what you see to be normal I think, but I never grew up with gays or have known anyone who has.
I think I'm probably ok...when I say I would love to get into some woman's pants, I'm not talking about exchanging clothing...unless it's really pretty...
Im just wondering who are you and who gave you to decide that love should not be a reason for gay marriages, Im not involvedc in it and you're not involved in it, so don't make judgements!
Hussanmf, taking an interest in sports because your parents are invloved in sports is no where near changing your sexual orientation because your parents are gay.
Actually my mother coached Mens College and High school basketball and soccer, and my father coached hockey, The only thing on TV in the house was sports, and I HATE sports. I refused to be involved in any sports as a child and only now as I have gotten older have I taken the slightest interest in Hockey,more of a national pride thing really. My brother is the same way!
My nighbours in my hometown were both alcoholics, drunk ALL the time, didn't work, didn't do anything but cause problems. Their children don't drink at all and have excellent jobs.
Two of my classmates are from single mothers who got pregnant at the age of 16, both of them are happily married now, one for the last 2 years and one just recently. They are both 27 and no kids yet. Neither of their mothers have married yet.
I have friends who's fathers and mothers are doctors, lawyers, engineers and their children are gas station attendants or work at MacDonalds.
Parents who never touched a drop of alcohol or drugs who have kids that are herion addicts.
Etc Etc.
I can't think of a single person really who emulates their parents the way you say they should.
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Once again....where have I insulted Allah and used foul language....or been uncivil? I'm not having this discussion with people who don't know the difference between the word "nonsense" and foul language.
judging any one but i am not saying being a gay is very good or should be allowed because it is based on love. Human have been doing it and still they knew that what they were doing was not right. It is a desire a person want to fulfil. You can call it a love to fulfil a desire, you know like thief have desires to steal things.
Supporting gay marriage is equal to admit that homosexual sex is right thing to do. Even millions of westerns they admit that it is bad practice.
Now Allah (though i avoided bringing Allah in this matter any more because you do not know HIM and you all continue to insult HIM which i can never bear) wants you to live clean and natural life complying HIS instructions to get heaven and save ourselves from hell. I am not hiding behind Allah and i am not forming my own opinions. Even Darude he knows this since he is muslim. He can tell you better than me about Islam and what Islam wants. Ask any of 1 Billion muslim. You are free to ask anyone if you do not believe me.
Your not getting my point Saud....we have no right to judge others...hiding behind Allah is just an excuse so you don't have to form your own opinions!
it is arab who are homosexual or it is european who are homosexual or it is asian who are homosexual, this will remain bad thing and thos who are doing it should be helped to be out of this practice.
Those who are doing it, no one can stop them and they have this matter with Allah to resolve with. But gay marriages should never be supported. There must be a law who should stop them if they found doing it same as having sex in public which is moraly unaccepted in all countries even if they are husband and wife.
Gay relationship or gay marriages will always remain illegal even if corrupted system allowed them to have it. If anyone thing that gays are not hurting anyone so they should be allowed to do it. They hurt everyone human in this world with this.
now there are 2 topics regarding gays no matter how much you encourage them or i too Remember i am a Muslim.
But still every one will come criticizing them as if they are criminals of a society and trying to ruins ones culture.well they are not harmin any one they even are not pokking in any ones life still they are criminals for them.i had friends lesbians gays i never had any problem,what they are they like it that way.they are giving references from Quran i will come up with a stronger one let me see what answer they got for it.
if a kid is raised by a gay couple , he/she will be inclined to be gay..NOT ALWAYS, but MOST LIKELY!!!
Where do you get this nonsense from? Seriously, do you have proof of this? If being gay is going to be the worst thing to happen to a person, well sign me up for it now :D
Not always, or ever do we folllow what those around us choose to do, we are individual but psycologically a lot of things are learned from those around us, I agee with that.
In terms of suffering children around the world, I don't think you can use this as an excuse for some one to adopt, as in "well they could be dying in some jungle" however this lovely gay couple have have chosen to adoption him/her, aren't they so lucky.
As far as questioning ones sexuality and being afraid to do it, I've never heard such crap. The fact is most don't ever need to question it, look at the world, by far the majority don't have a problem with it.
The new age western woman is full of glossy magazine and no substance, and it's a fast growing trend.
You know, all this thread really does is prove the ignorance is bliss. As long as I think being gay is disgusting or wrong, I won't have to ever do the scary thing of questioning my own sexuality. :P
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i would have though my logic would be clear by now!:)
some geniouses give birth to stupid kids and super atheltes may give birth to disdavnatged children!!!
i m not talking about exceptions...i m talking about the rules of life and the universe...
put someone in ANY CONDUCIVE Environment to become something, and they most likely will be that something, NOT ALWAYS,but MOST LIKELY..
if a kid is born into a familly where the dad and the mom are olympic atheletes, he/she will most likely take an interest in sports...
if a kid is raised by a gay couple , he/she will be inclined to be gay..NOT ALWAYS, but MOST LIKELY!!!
starting from the premise that homosexuality is wrong ( whether morally or for the pure reason of the continuation of the human race, u take ur pick)...i would like to hope that we dont put children in a situation where bieng gay is something they see as desirable !!!:)
is my logic clearer now?
cheers buddy
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
the problem is for them homo or hetro are kind of aliens not human. i dont know why they dont understand this. yes i am also muslim but respecting a humans feeling thats must. there is no such big diff in them or us. its all about passion caring love and feelings for one. hmm what??? i said alot on this post. still they get some thing new.
on fire i better leave b4 she stings. this topic seems like its never gona end any where. why dont u ppl leave others on their own let them live as they like it be lesbian or gay.what ever they are they are for themself not for you or asking for any fav from you. they wana live as u live. you got ur own ways to live they like their own ways to live. if you really dont like them fine avoid it ignore it why are u trying to point at some ones entity.u be ur self and let them be on their own. are u really being hurt by that. or are they asking u for money to feed them.
LIfe Doesnot Consist of holding good cards but also playing a poor hand will.
my heart goes out to all abused and neglected children scorpio...
in my mind that has no bearing on my original argument...
hososexuality is a human condition, i accept that bec i have 2...not bec i think it is right...
i simply dont believe young children should be subjected to an environment which could lead them 2 adopt homosexual atitudes out of bieng comfortable with it as something they are used as opposed to doing it bec of thier biological inclination...
no more so than i think young children should not be brought up by alcholics or drug users or abusive parents or criminals!!!
you pick these things up as a child...
i m more comfortable with hoping that children are bieng brough up amongst hetrosexual families with no diviant attitudes or behaviour!whether sexual or otherwise...
i dont think thats a bad thing:)
cheers
like i said,thats my openion...
i m not trying 2 impose it on any one, i m just stating it..!!
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Honestly, some people...lol...if children living in happiness, have parents who love them regardless of the sex of the parents, why,why, why take that away from someone because you think it's wrong?
Wouldn't u prefer a child to be in safe home regardless of somebodies sex? Or are you that narrowminded...phhhh!
If kids knowing that they have parents of the same sex is what concerns you, spare a thought to all those sexually, physically, mentally abused children out there who have both a mother and father who don’t give a crap.
If gay couples are raising a perfectly happy and healthy child, what is so wrong and evil about that? If there is love and a happy family involved why is it any of our business to judge? Just let people in living in harmony, they are not hurting you!
people whenever i click on something it keeps bringing me back to this topic, it seems that everybody on the forum is in it. i read the first part but i have no intention of reading 6!!!! pages of opinions!! and i assume this will go on and on and on since everybody has a different opinions about it, and since i am having a bad day (bored one) and was passing time on QL!! i am fed up of comming to this topic over and over again whenever i click something on the site.
so my opinion is Live and let live (i think someone wrote that before) anyway .... and let PEOPLE DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH WHOEVER THEY WANT (as long as there are no children and animals involved), if someone is pleased and is having fun with another same sex person WTF that has to do with u!! if you are straight than fine be happy rais your children as you want and let others worry about there children. For those who dont like it IGNORE IT and dont look, as some people ignore you and the fact that you look at other people's wives/gf/sisters as fresh meat. i prefer to have gay people minding their own business rather than straight people staring at me or my wife/sister....
buttom line GET A LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!
I was raised by my Mom. I barely knew my dad. By some miracle, I turned out to be hetrosexual.
That's the way it works for most people. We do most of our learning based on our own experiences. We get guidance from out parents but,ultimately, what we feel comes from inside.
There is no such thing as "gays are", or "straights are" no more than you can say "Men are", or "Canadians are" or "Qataris are".
Look around. It is not possible to generalize accurately about any group of people. To do so is, at best, silly; at worst assinine and self servingly egotistical.
How about instead of drawing any conclusions about gays, ask them. You know what you'll find? You'll find what they are about as individuals. You will still not have any answers about 'gays' in general.
That's because there are no answers. Every single person in the world is an individual.
Before judging someone you have never met and know nothing about, maybe you can remember how it feels to have someone judge you.
i m not just arguing for the sake of argument gypsy...
u do acknoweldge that young children imitate the relationships of thier care takers..
growing up, i knew my dad was with my mom ( a woman )...
so bieng the same gender as my dad, i sought out women to experiment with...
if i grew up with my dad bieng with uncle tom, i would have probably sought out uncle sam;s son to experiment with...
it doesnt take a genious to do this kind of deduction...
children of gay couples may not know exactlly what thier "parents" do in the bedroom, but they do know that they are with a member of the same sex ...thats obvious enough!
and what i told u in my earlier post is common knoweldge..
for someone who knows gay men and women, i m sure u must have came across the same info at one point or another...
its also documented sychological research ....
and most of all, its mere common sense!
even totally straight males who are brough up amongst straight women, ( but only women ) without a male figure in thier lives, tend to be more sensetive and more capable of understanding female attitudes, and usually in many ways act in a feminine way ( untill they discover that they wont ever get laid that way loool)
any how...
i understand what u r trying 2 say...
i agree in part, and disagree with another part...
no biggy...
take care
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
click the page the scroll down and than click the 6page and than wait and here come see some comments Saud is out watching Gay Movies he will take a lesson and come back with new comments lol
Marriage was founded as an institution for a couple to bear children.
Previously in the stone age the new born & the mother would be vunerable to wild animals & wild tribes so a need for man to protect them and get food.
It was kind of like he was responsible for hunting, food etc & she was to take care of the child & house. Just like any other animal-couple in the wild.
It is because of the child that the man & woman had to bind into a contract for Marriage.
If there is no child-birth in question then there would be no reason for MARRIAGE to exist either HOMO or HETRO.
Explanation of SIN:
Unprotected anal sex could give you infection - Since this concept was difficult to explain to people back then it was generally termed as SIN. So in the sense if you do not sin you are clean (disease free).etc.
Similarly for a Hindu it was a sin if he did not wash his hand & feet before eating food. Not only that it was a sin if he did not pour water on the ground around himself & the food ( The wet ground acts like a barrier for any insects from creaping in).
Similarly Adultry is a sin because it can cause jealousy & rage in the spouse & can lead to man-slaughter.
is that being a gay is very bad thing. Here the gays want this to be spread worldwide. They are not enough that they are gay. They want others to be gays too. It means they are spoiled and want to spoil other childrens too. You all will find me alone facing you, if there is no one to help me, to resist these creatures who want to spoil others. Gays, ofcourse, will not call this as bad because they are doing it. Killer will never say that killing is bad nor the theif nor the rapist. But it is actually bad thing and only natural people will find it bad.
Personally I am uncomfortable with homosexuals who flaunt their stuff in public and a lot of them do, they even have festivals for this type of camp activity. There's no need to go over the top and that is when I dislike it, as long as they keep it behind closed doors and respect the feeling of others, then I will respect them.
I have met some whom seem very nice people, but the very act of what they get up to repulses me - that is just not normal.
I did not say that I don't like these people or have anything against them. I'm just trying to answer some of the questions that would got into the mind of anyone who would hear about that. You are right, these people do exist so what should we do? Ignoring them or treat them like they are not there is not a solution. To be honest with you Gypsy .. I've met some of them here accidentally, you can find them everywhere and out of all that I met only 1 or 2 were ok.
The rest were possessed with the .... you know the idea as well as I was having kinda of a nice body back then and looks like they were thinking that I'm the right man for this but they were wrong. I was shocked when one of them asked for my phone number [he was with a friend] telling me that we might hang out sometimes and having fun and there is nothing wrong with this guy but that he was holding me hand like a girl and speaks even better than a girl.
I'm not against these people, there is always bad and good. Like all straight people are not good or bad. Also gay people got the good and bad among them. If these guys want to live their own live, let it be .. I don't think that I would like to be part of that but it is up to them.
Please Hussanmf, find me this evidence you speak of. Yes children grow up to imitate their parents relationship, but not sexually! I have no idea what my parents do in bed, for all I know they are into S&M. Homosexual parents don't have sex in front of their kids! As for being prone to experimentation, I'm sure they are, you don't have to be raised by homosexuals to be experimental. I wasn't, and I have been. It's a natural part of growing up.
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i m sorry to disaapoint you, but there is ample proof from sychology to conclusively say that ALL YOUNG CHILDREN GROW UP IMMITATING THE FORM OF RELATIONSHIP THIER CARE TAKERS FOLLOW....
if homosexuality is norm as they grow up, it is safe to say that they will at least be less hesitatnt to try it and/or get sychologically hoocked and or attached to it...
there is also ample prroof to suggest homosexuality( for males) bieng a product of engaging in anal sex as younger children or adolecents...
in a very real sense, those who experiences bieng penetrated as younger individuals ( for whatever reason ) experience very SERIOUS needs to keep getting penetrated..
thats the reason why many very MANLY males are gays bec they were raped as children...
So a big FAT NO...
Homosexuality is certainly NOT ONLY a function of getting attracted to one gender as opposed to the other ( although this is certainly a part of it )
there are way too many forces at play, one of which is if u r brough up in a gay tolerant/incouraging attitude...
another one is availability...like in prison ( or in the gulf ), where acess to the opposite sex is limited or non existent...
and many other factors...
My point again in very plain english..
Accepting people for what they are is one thing...
encouraging attitudes that are not right is another...
i agree to the earlier bec it cant be helped...and i will not hate or dehumanise anyone for any reason...
i disagree with the later bec it can be helped....and thats why i oppose gay couples adopting..
its just my openion...
i m sure u r not suggesting that an openion that doesnt conform with urs is rediclious..!!!
i guess it was just a slip of the tounge:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Are you psycho. watch what you are and where u are. leave the others on their own they are not begging u for anything or asking u for shelter.You Dont like it simple ignore it you knuckle head dunce nutz.
No. Kissing and holding hands is allowed in the west, whether hetro or homo.
Genesis, typical gay couples are monogamous as well. Yes, they do enjoy their parties while they are single and some of them are in open relationships, but by no means all of them. My friend and his boyfriend do not cheat on each other.
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We’ve all heard of the local wife acceptance unwillingly to their husbands ‘fun’ trips with their friends to Cairo, Beirut, or Bangkok. In fact some of those trips are even with gay motives.
This is another story that needs a thread on its own.
I was referring to ordinary couples not twisted & dysfunctional ;)
I have never met anyone, ever, who changed his/her mind about the morality/theology/nature of homosexuality...not once.
The best I've ever seen is people agreeing to disagree. If anyone's mind got changed due to this discussion, I'd be so shocked I'd have a stroke.
I'm not criticizing...I'm Switzerland in this debate. I'm just bringing to attention that no matter how many sides are presented, not one mind will be changed.
The best we can hope for is for someone to acknowledge another's point of view, if not agree with it. My bet is that not one mind will be changed, but I've been wrong before...
Don't be ridiculous Hussnamf, being raised by a gay couple doesn't make you gay. People can't decide who they are sexually attracted too. There is absolutely NO scientific evidence to support that. I know several kids raised by gay parents and they aren't gay.
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There is a differnce between accepting people the way they are, and between raising them 2 be something ...
for example, a man might love a wife who is a nurotic mess, and accept her and love her to pieces..
now if he were to bring a child into life, do u think it is wise to raise her to be a nurotic mess?
in my mind, its the same idea...
Bieng gay for some people ( hormonally imbalanced at birth ), is not a choice...
Raising up a son/daughter to be gay is a choice( of the parents not the child )....
and bringing up children in a gay " familly " does just that....bec a child grows up wanting 2 immitate the form of relationship he / she whitnessed theor care takers practice, and thats a given fact of sychology that no one argues with...
thats why i oppose allowing gay couples 2 adopt ...
i dont remeber using the quran to argue with at all, but u always kept bringing it up:)
any ways...
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
I’m not against homosexuals. In fact I believe that due to their liberal thinking, Arab gays have an impact on culture & literature.
I was just stating why, in my opinion, the gay marriages never works.
Yet another example, one of the top gay destinations is Greece. Although it is known that Greeks are less tolerant to homosexuals than the rest of the Mediterranean. Gay men simply favors it to famous gay spots like Torremolinos in Spain just because they can mingle with sexually confused locals on after dark parks & local hamams.
Obviously you don’t go into details with your gay couple friends, or you should have known that the only reason they are going on is because they see other people if not in dating in other ways like flings on saunas or online.
I'm not making up the words on my own Saud. Read a dictionary.
And what gay values are you referring to Hussnamf? The idea of letting everyone live their own life, accepting people for who they are, not who they sleep with? Making a statement to society, that yes, I love this person and I'm going to marry them. What awful values!
Hussanmf, as long as people keep throwing the holy books at me as some kind of proof (which they aren't) all keep throwing them back. Simple as that.
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i would be digging out the old threads and then argued with gypsy on that alot "She had a topic once about Taliban" she didnot like them she saw she heard she felt that was her own way of thinking what she observed.or i could come out here swearing at her blah blah u donot anything bullshit that is. her rights she can say anything. So whats wrong with you than Saud.Simple thing accept the reality nicely :) and have a positive sense always. :)
i m merely suggesting that u were reading with a not so open mind..
u were reading 2 find in the books reasons to say they are nonesense, rather than reading 2 find out what they say ...
at least thats what i think...may be i m wrong...
at any rate, homosexuality is indeed a " natural " phnomenon...
it occurs in nature as well as in the human society...always has and always will
Homosexuals certainly have the right to live and love and are in no way less of human biengs for bieng what they are...
but in my humble openion, they shouldnt be GRANTED the right to marry and adopt...
like i said bef , what happens behind closed doors between consenting adults is only thier buisness...
God only know that hetrosexuals are also involved in shamfull practices behind closed doors...
thats not the point...
the point is that same sex marriages ( legally ) and adoption ( legally ) in my openion pauses an increadible threat on humanity and is a serious alteration to familly norms ...
No one can argue that children derive their basic ideas about society from their parents , and should gay couples be allowed to adopt, this can only reinforce gay values that are not in any way attributed to hermonal imbalances, but are societal practices ...
which brings us back to the story of Lot and his people, and we all know how that ended!!!
Finally gypsy, if u dont believe in God and the holly books, may be u should refrain from making citations and refrences to them ...
its hard for me to imagine someone who doesnt believe in something yet uses it as an integral part of their reasoning...
wouldnt u agree?
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
If you do not like me and do not like my existence, you are free to do so. I did not ask you to come and have your great words in this forum or force you to read what i have typed ;)
You can enjoy other forums or feel free to stay here. Your comments are doing great job and they are full of knowledge. You are grown :) i am proud of you
Well here's the thing Saud, I don't think it's a bad practice and I don't think it's a crime. I support them in their life because I know it makes them happy and they aren't hurting anyone. I love them, I love the partners they choose.
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if you are their good friends you should help them in starting good life and i am sure they will love this life too. We may have our beloved ones involved in crime and we do not want them to be hurt so in this case we can help them out of that crime not just support them. Allah will help them in getting rid of this bad practice. I pray for every gay and lesbians to get rid of this bad practice. They are human beings we should help them out not to leave them.
"Straight" is simply a slang term used in the West to describe someone who is heterosexual. I don't think gays and lesbians are perverted at all. I think it's perfectly natural.
If you are going to get into a silly little argument about slang terms then remember that gay actually means happy or cheerful. :)
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If a person is dunce illiterate arrogant with not a single knowledge about life not wise minded never positive in life. :) Will take you decades to make him understand. SO ITS USELESS.
gays and lesbians are perverted if they are not straight. Do you support perverted people's marriage which is not straight at all. People just ashame to call such people as straight / natural.
DaRude, I'm very impassioned about this topic because two members of my family are gay, and some of my best friends are. I know how difficult it is for them, and it drives me nuts when people can't think of any other reason to dislike them other then what some 1600 year old book MAY have said. Homosexuals are as caring, loving and giving as any heterosexuals, or as messed up and screwed up as any heterosexuals, and they have every right to live their lives as we do.
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People have every right to believe in what they want. If you choose not to like gay people, then great, don't like them, but don't try and ruin their lives by enforcing your beliefs on them. At the same respect, if you are going to come on this forum and start spouting ignorant, baseless, hate in the name of "Allah" don't expect me not to argue back.
Beleive it or not Hussnamf, I've read the Quran, and I've read the Bible and I've read the Torah and it's just the same meaningless drivel to me.
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" To make a long story short, Ur openion on the quran is urs, and u have a right to it, but i think u r missing out on understanding both the book and the effects of the book on people by always tryingt 2 fish for faults in it ( most of which are never niether accurate nor right any way ).."
in my openion, the reason why u " read the quran and dont like it" as u say,is bec u r interpreting it through a peep hole tainted with prejudice...something that u r so furious about when someone else like faisal or whoever else does...
yes u are entitled to ur openion, But u talk the talk and dont walk the walk from where i m standing...
u bash people for not bieng able 2 accept the things u believe in, or at least consider it, while it seems to me from where i m standing that u r doing the same thing from the opposite side of the fence...
all having been said, i didnt confiscate ur right 2 ur own openion on the Quran and Islam...
Think what u like!!and live as u deem fit:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
go and ask them they will say, they have missed one character in their life. They will never be happy and can never be, believe me. They must have missed a real happiness. They are sorry for what has happend to them.
Just started work this morning right and spending office time in your useless nonsense. go and do some work for your boss for god sake without steeling from your employer.
I disagree Saud, I know a couple of kids who grew up without either a mother or a father or with two mothers or two fathers. They all turned out just fine.
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Then why write that whole spiel Hussanmf? I read the Quran the way I want to, you read it yours. I don't like it, you do. We all have free will to choose our own paths in our lives. I don't need a holy book to tell me how to live my life and be a good person, others do. It's their decision.
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every child miss father and mother together. If they can become good fathers who will cover for mother. I believe that father can never give love of a mother to any one. It is universal truth. Father can not take mother's place and mother can not take father's place. They both are required characters in every one's life.
The quran tells the stories of these men...a story is an account of something that happened, not neccesarilly a suggestion...
Also, Lot was not trying 2 save a " couple of guys" , he was trying 2 save an entire village ...
Furthermore, consider what he was trying 2 save them from...its not like he was concerned they will get fat and out of shape!!!
he was concerned that the whole village will be struck by furious retribution from God ( which eventually happened )..
and u r missing out on the whole MORAL of the story :)
When i was in college, in our 1st lecture the Dean was speaking 2 us..
He told us :" never judge a historical event of times past by standards of the time u now live in"...
He was talking about history and politics, i would suggest u need to do the same about the quran and the religion...
You are entitled to ur own openion of the Quran, but with all due respect to you, no matter what ur openion is, The quran is a book that has inspired thousands of the greatest men and women who ever walked the earth to live a complete, a moral, and an exceptionally fruitfull life...
People Like Anwar Sadat, ( nobel peace prize winner), Ahmmad Zowail ( Phisics nobel prize winner ), Ahmad elbaradie ( nobel peace prize winner ) are all shiniing examples that even in this day and age
when Muslims are no where close to their best , Islam and Quran are still parts of raising great minds and great people who contribute a fair share in human development and civilisation.
In times past , It was the muslim culture ( and ONLY the muslim culture ) that has tolerated and accepted Jews and chritians and different religions and ethnicities in its ranks, and they were treated as citizens with rights and obligations...
Till today, no Jew can deny that the brightest days of the jews were under islamic rule and riegn...
Not one " VALID " claim of historical abuse against christians in Juraselem for example was ever made while juraselem was under muslim rule...
To make a long story short, Ur openion on the quran is urs, and u have a right to it, but i think u r missing out on understanding both the book and the effects of the book on people by always tryingt 2 fish for faults in it ( most of which are never niether accurate nor right any way )..
i reiterate..if u can make an effort 2 put ur prejudice against the quran and islam aside, u might even surprise urself with how easy it is 2 accept the universal truth that lies in the Quran...
Then again, u NOT DOING SO ( and i say that with all the respect in the world ), means ABSOULETLY NOTHING:)
The Quran is one of these things that are true whether u believe in them or not ( in my humble openion at least )
and the status of the Quran as God;s words to the entire human race will not in any way be undermined if u dont belive in it...
Have a gr8 day
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Wow Genesis and King Edshel, can I just recommend actually meeting some gay people before you make generlizations like that. I know quite a few commited male relationships, in fact two good friends of mine who have been together for 3 and a half years are going to get married this summer. They are also interested in adopting a child in a couple of years, and I have no doubt they will make excellent fathers.
You guys obviously don't know any homosexuals or have any real knowledge of the gay community. Get out there and visit some of these "gay villages" instead of just judging them from TV.
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because it is against these people nature and against the great law of nature. It is like playing in the spare time, nothing is real and the only reason for these guys or gals to be together is absolutely desire and lust. Any relation rather than being between a man and a woman [they do exist] is not a real relation. How can these two gays or lesbians have a family or rise their children if they got any? What would be this child feeling when he go to the school and someone to see his mother? Bring your mother tomorrow, which one of them? I got two mothers. Or bring your mother and he is bringing his father to the school, son .. we asked you to bring your mother, who is this? He is my mother? Imagine a lot of these embarrassing situations and none acceptable. If these two can live like that, I don't think that there children would ever be normal.
Well, it might work for lesbians. However, with gay men it’s just nonsense.
Simply because gay relations are absolutely sexual, gay activists tried extensively to cover-up this fact with influence in media/pop culture to establish a solid ground for their rights.
In major cities like New York, Toronto, Paris or London where there are gay villages, dozens of gay saunas/dark rooms & cruising areas have over come the average gay bars. So, it’s obvious that gay people are not into ordinary dating.
Gay men are not really attracted to each other, There is an over obsession & a thrill in turning in straight men. NO wonder nowadays it’s the fashion in gay culture to accompany an immigrant (Turks, Kurds, Arabs, etc). And it’s a no secret that those relations won’t end up in marriage.
Finally, Gay relations are always short. Simply because both partners get bored and sleep around. Why stay with one partner, when there are dozen of strangers on the sauna next door!
Hussanmf, any religion that says it's ok to throw your daughters to a bunch of rapists in order to save a couple of guys is not my idea of a beautiful book, sorry.
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And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns)? (Al-A'raf 7:80)
"Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (Al-A'raf 7:81)
I emplore u to reconsider ur source of quran interpratation...
Lot never had sex with his childrenaccoring to quran ...
What the quran said was the he argued with the gay men in his village to the extent that he offered his daughters just to try and put them off the homosexual sex practices:)
The Quran is really a bueatifull book gypsy...
i think if u try to read it with ur prejedous aside, u will learn a lot and enjoy a lot...
having said that, i understand ur frustration from how so many muslims today to tend to associate themselves with very narrow interpretations of the quran and very old ones indeed that need 2 be revisited and re though of...
I do firmly believe however that all the tenants and pillars of the Quran, and all the wisdom and moral code presnted in it holds firm to any day and age..
the trick is how to present the same wisdom and the ideals of times past in a modern context that serves us in the world we live today..
and just for ur info, islam is a very open religion...
For example, the prophet himself ( while alive ) legislated about people with ambigious sex ( u know those people with unidentified genetelia or not fully developed ones )
his take on it was that a person with that condition would recieve inheritance based on his/her APPARENT genetelia...
ie, those with developed penises would be treated as men and those with vagaina;s as women in matters of inheritance...
so its not like Islam even tried to shy away from adressing these issues..
its all in the attitude...
people who want to find flexible answers derived from islam will find ample precsedent to follow...
and those who want to take a hard line and see the world through a peep whole will always find reason 2 do so in any book...be it the quran , the bible, plato's republic, or the american constitution:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Hell no! They are not straight. The won't even walk a straight line without pushing the boundaries of flexing their man made hips or over extending their tongues the lesbies.
So many fine man and woman to be wasted in a metaphor of despair and lies,,,,,
The day a man is able to have a baby is the end of world......
as you know that whole nation can never be same. In each society there have been criminals, bad people, killers, rapist, theieves etc. But on one can generalise it and say that they have done it so it is right thing to do. No, it is not true and it is not logical. Bad practice will remain bad even if the whole world start practicing that practice. And good practice will always remain good even if the whole world stop doing it. We can not judge a nation by its few corrupt members.
Can you give me information on this. Am kinda new for this kind of knowledges ;)
Genesis, bad practice is a bad practice whoever practicing them. It is bad even if the whole world started this practice. The most important is we should not bow to this bad practice which is unhealthy for any healthy society.
now hold it there Saud.. what imagination?! you're forgettin something here arent you?.. look around you and you'd see your so called imagination turned into reality. And for your info, lesbians / gays can possibly have biological children.. duh!
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am nobody! ...who are you? are you nobody too? then theres a pair of us! ...em.d.
own imagination cyp. It has nothing to do with real life. What you guys are doing totally goes against humanity. And gypsy there is big difference between me and you are. You can not have children as i have because you are gay or lesbian. You will feel about this, you have to.
I liked Bush when he called gay marriage as free of love and perverted. Even he realised this. You all can also try and believe me it is worthy to try. You have spread the dirt in Canada and other west countries why you want to spread it here in Qatar. A person should live where the environment suits them. If you find people hates this practice why you are spoiling the people here. :)
Some people have feelings towards other people of the same sex, and contemplate whether this means that they are gay.. these feelings can be very intense and alienating to some extent. Most are just attracted to other people of the same sex are gay and go on to have sexual relationships with people of the same sex... whereas other people are attracted to both men and women and have relationships with both. But there are cases as well that some people are not attracted to anyone and wonder if this is a sign of homosexuality... now what do we call them??
Hetero - homo, it'll all boils down to one point, they're humans! you could just imagine how hard it is for them to cope up in a society with tons of judgmental people like you are... so please stop bein so pathetic and cut your crap bacause you simply cant impose them.
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am nobody! ...who are you? are you nobody too? then theres a pair of us! ...em.d.
I can have children. I can have my own or I can adopt. My parents would love and support me, and I haven't been disappointed or miserable yet. Life is more then just about sex, I have a great job, wonderful family, I travel, and someday I'll have someone who loves me. I'll have all the things you have Saud.
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which full of disappointment and misery. Where there is no respect, love and respect of relationship. There are other great values of this life other than sex or being an animal. Darude is laughing on donkey and dog but this practice will make him worst than donkey or dog. Doneky and dog will be laughing on him but he will not be feeling it.
It is short pleasure. You are scrificing great life for sick relationship. How you will face your parents and your children. Oh sorry you can not have children because you are homos.
than a writer's imagination, if gays followed his imagination then they are really perverted.
You are believing him and saying that Quran is fariytale. There is no book equal to Quran and Quran is a model of truth. I dont blame you or Darude or any one who are using such words agains Quran because you have not even read it. Quran is more than a friend.
I think i should stop and quit. How can i convince someone who is already in a dirt. If you are happy with being a gay, so let it be, but do not forget my words. If gayism crossed its limit then Allah will clean this earth by himself. Then this debate wont be useful. Quran says about such people, let them play until they see the day they were promised.
What i pray for is that Allah show the right path to every body who does not know about this bad practice. But i bet that gypsy and darude they know how bad this is.
I quit this debate because i cant bear insult of my Allah, his prophet and Allah's book Quran. They are not worth to be insulted. They all wanted good for all of us. Now it is human being, who makes his/her own destiny.
Allah is witness that i have conveyed HIS message to the persons who read my words and were not aware of what Allah's wants.
Allah protect you all and tell you all please quit qayism and save yourself
Gay bars are the only ones where I can cut the line up for the girls bathroom by going in the mens! Those guys don't care and usually I've made a new friend by the time I'm done. :D
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hahaha lol right they wont tease females or chasing them will stay in limit than what about the females lol who like to be admired and explored LOL. :D
I think gay guys are great...that means 2 fewer guys chasing the girls. Less competition is a beautiful thing. The only downside is that if women have gay friends, they expect the rest us to learn how to clean, dress nicely and dance, too.
By 2006 the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Canada and South Africa had legalized same-sex marriage; in the United States, only Massachusetts had legalized gay marriage while the states of Vermont, Connecticut, and New Jersey allowed civil unions.[47] Maine, California, and Hawaii, as well as the District of Columbia, offer domestic partnerships.
Other countries, including the majority of European nations, have enacted laws allowing civil unions, designed to give gay couples similar rights as married couples concerning legal issues such as inheritance and immigration. Numerous Scandinavian countries have had domestic partnership laws on the books since the late 1980s.
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Among many Middle-Eastern Muslim cultures, homosexual practices were widespread and public. Persian poets, such as Attar (d. 1220), Rumi (d. 1273), Sa’di (d. 1291), Hafez (d. 1389), and Jami (d. 1492), wrote poems replete with homoerotic allusions. Recent work in queer studies suggests that while the visibility of such relationships has been much reduced, their frequency has not.[citation needed] The two most commonly documented forms were commercial sex with transgender males or males enacting transgender roles exemplified by the köçeks and the bacchás, and Sufi spiritual practices in which the practitioner crossed over from the idealized chaste form of the practice to one in which the desire is consummated.
In Persia homosexuality and homoerotic expressions were tolerated in numerous public places, from monasteries and seminaries to taverns, military camps, bathhouses, and coffee houses. In the early Safavid era (1501-1723), male houses of prostitution (amrad khane) were legally recognized and paid taxes.
A tradition of art and literature sprang up constructing Middle Eastern homosexuality. Muslim — often Sufi — poets in medieval Arab lands and in Persia wrote odes to the beautiful Christian wine boys who, they wrote, served them in the taverns and shared their beds at night. In many areas the practice survived into modern times, as documented by Richard Francis Burton, André Gide, and others.
In the Turkic-speaking areas, one manifestation of this same-sex love was the bacchá, adolescent or adolescent-seeming male entertainers and sex workers.
In other areas male love continues to surface despite efforts to keep it quiet. After the American invasion of Afghanistan, Central Asian same-sex love customs in which adult men take on adolescent lovers were widely reported.[citation needed]
Sexual relations between older and younger boys are said to be frequent in the Middle East as well as in the Maghreb.
The prevailing pattern of same-sex relationships in the temperate and sub-tropical zone stretching from Northern India to the Western Sahara is one in which the relationships were — and are — either gender-structured or age-structured or both. In recent years, egalitarian relationships modeled on the western pattern have become more frequent, though they remain rare
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if you think u are that much strong with words prove them with actions too lets say go meet some gays lesbians try to isolate them from each other if you really can. Knots when Tied strongly are not that easy to be openned.Relationship are same like that its not a joke or for fun. Guess u never had any one for real not even ur wife.
all was about gay lesbian homo what ever you brought in dogs and donkeys and son and mother. Where Exactly are you heading. Or are u trying to tell us that u really don like watching their porn movies. silly
Bit repressed sounding if you ask me. Doesn't sound like he's getting much sex from anyone, male or female! Sounds like he knows a lot about sex with animals too, hmmmmmm. :?
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I am talking to every one. I am not addressing any particular person. Well every one has to die, so i am not worried about this. I am worried for the persons who do not believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) and Allah book Quran.
Is it written in any book that "Homosexuality has been around for as long as human beings have" Can any one clarify
DARude, like most super religious people Saud is a hypocrit. He preaches one thing and does another. I'm sure he's only pretending to be so disgusted with homosexuals because he is afraid of his own homosexual tendencies.
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u got problem with the ppl than there is only one place for you to quit them.That the Grave yard in Abu Hamour.Go get There for the rest of ur life.That will be much more better for you.You Just the mirrior Look behind the mirrior too u will find the Diff. :P A i said b4 if u are trying to be that much of a religious person you know well talking to An Unknow Female is Also Forbidden In Islam. Why are you Bugging Her.Talk To Me.Or Rest Of The Guys Grab Them Ask Them Talk To Them About It.
is a light in this real world. You got blind. It is not Quran's fault :)
You can not imagine how Quran want to guide you and want you to have healthy life. But modern human wants to have fun (in their opinion) and make new ways to have fun. So gayism is their new way to have fun and change humanity
Why can't gay couples marry, have children and create more happiness and love. It's only your Narrow mind that thinks they can't. Run back behind your Quran Saud and stop bothering yourself with the real world.
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enought. I can not live in a society where a son can marry his mother. Really i can not. I feel sorry for these people which are supporting this kind of marriages. They are really perverted.
I want to have a proper family consist of father, mother, brothers and sisters and children. Where girls marry guys and where children look at their mother as mothers and look at their fathers as fathers. Where they marry and have children and bring happiness and more love. I want to have my life partner a woman, a natural couple.
Gayism is nothing but a desire, like a desire of theaf to steal and desire of killer to kill, like a desire of rapist to rape. There no conxentual adult sex but corruption and harrasment of humanity and lack of shame. Very disappointing environment, free of pleasure.
i think i should get Now else u r not gona Quit. Saud whats ur problem u dont agree with Gay love and marriage right.fine thats what u think and what u like. now is every one suppose be with same as ur thoughts no right. or all i can conclude from the beginning of ur post u wana impose ur thougths on other and their ways of life. NA YOU CANT DO SO QUIT IT PAL.DO U HAVE ANY VALID SOLID REASON FOR HATING gays or lesbians ok thats what u think not me i dont have problem with that let them live their life i am not being bugged by their relation what they do what they dont do its all up to them.or are they askin u for a fav to make our movie or talk to us or take a snap. guess not THAN WHATS UR PROBLEM. u getting religion in that. how much do u know aaann still young enough to practice every thing life is there and u will exper everything. RIP
Last time I checked Saud, no incestous mother/son pairs were asking to marry, defintely not enough of them to justify even looking at the matter. However there are many many homosexual couples and they are asking. I don't see how they are hurting anyone, so why not let them marry.
You are the ones with no answers Saud, and no point.
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Then I hope they use condemns cause those would be messed up kids. But hey, in your little religious book Lot has sex with his daughters and they have kids and thats perfectly acceptable. So there you go.
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I don't know how many times you've had sex with animals Saud, you seem to know more about it then I do. I would assume that the animal would fight back. However consent has to do with mental capacity as well, a donkey or a dog doesn't have the mental capacity to consent, neither does a child. Your argument doesn't hold water.
YOu love your wife and you have sex with your wife. You do so because you are also sexually attracted to her. Gay men or women love their partners and are sexually attracted to them, no different then you and your wife.
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The topic is based on love which turned two men into gay and two girls into lesbians. They want their right in this society. What if some one say i love my dog or my donkey and i want right in the society to have sex with them too. Or some one may say i love my son very much and i want to have sex with him. I do not know what shall i call them.
as donkey does not kick any one, means donkey is consent. Plus he loves donkey very much and donkey do same. So no problem at all. Love hun. Isnt it. Or take a dog as an example. Dog is more consent than donkey in this regard.
was about gay.Saud look interested in this topic only. now where the hell this donkay came from :S and having sex with donkey dont tell me u are from YEmen :P
someone loves his donkey. He should have sex, which is love in your opinion, with donkey. Donkey has no problem with this sex. Can you call this consentual relationship.
can express of love. Homosexual sex can never be love. Gypsy i can not agree with you that they do have sex just because they love each other.
Love is pure feeling and has nothing to do with sex, like a mother loves her son or daughter, a pure love free of desire. A love between a man and his GOD pure love. Movies had very bad impression on the society, like you should have sex with whom you love or you should kiss. This is sad and does not clarify your position Gypsy.
can express of love. Homosexual sex can never be love. Gypsy i can not agree with you that they do have sex just because they love each other.
Love is pure feeling and has nothing to do with sex, like a mother loves her son or daughter, a pure love free of desire. A love between a man and his GOD pure love. Movies had very bad impression on the society, like you should have sex with whom you love or you should kiss. This is sad and does not clarify your position Gypsy.
Sorry Hussanmf, I didn't mean to say that you said anything bad about homosexuals, you haven't.
Actually it appears we have the same view of the story of Lut or Lot, in both cases the society weas practicing abnormal deviency, which I take (and you have suggested you take) to mean rape and pedophilia, etc. Not a caring and consentual relationship between two adults.
This is simply my point about that story, that it gives and example the horrors of rape and exteme lust, NOT caring adult relationships.
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I dont believe i have have uttered one hatefull word against any one...
if i did, please point it out for me...
As far as God;s fairness is concerened, well , i believe he is fair in all matters...
truth is , no one but God himself decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell...
i cant and wont put myself in the shoes of the allmighty and judge human biengs and condemn them to heaven or hell..
i m far too pathetic and small in the bigger scheme of things ( in comparisson to God) to ever even so much as think of doing that..
What i posted earlier was just to correct ur interprataion of the Quran versus regarding Lut and his people...
and mind u , the people of Lut didnt practice homosexuality out of love...it was social norm...
it is said that they also sodomised young boyz...and that they used to "choose" their boyz and then shoot small rocks at their heads, knock them unconcious and then rape them....
doesnt sound 2 loving 2 me!
i agree that things are way to discreet to the extent of hypocracy in our culture..i totally agree with u in that respect...
it is silly to hear ppl claim that no homosexuality ocurs in our culture and that AIDS doesnt exist and a whole list of other absurd claims....
i also agree that the west 's attitude of " in ur face " is equally as absurd on the other side of the continum if u will ( dont mind the spelling:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
god's message is about love and respect so anyone who uses either of the books to spread hatred and intolerance does not understand the real point of religion (regardless of what they are quoting).
i don't think a fair God would condemn people to hell based on geography either, but that's what many of the die hards seem to believe since worshipping Mohamed (or Jesus or whoever) boils down to where you were born.
it's all nuts.
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"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I
Hussamf, I don't see how gay marriage is corrupting society or doing any harm at all.
I do understand your point about not boasting about things, but I don't see the point in hiding things either. In the West we are too boastful about things and we push things too much in peoples faces, but here in the East you hide it too much and turn into hypocrits.
There's a happy medium somewhere between the two cultures.
However, I will never sit and listen to hatred and bigotry spoken about homosexuals, because the homosexuals I've met are some of the best, if not the best, people I've met. Adversity always brings out the best in people, and I don't think any fair God would ever send these people to Sauds hell because of whom they love. I think the most important thing is that they love.
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if u have strong faith in ur heart thats enough.self confidence self abilities belives.still u think they are fishing.Never think of the next fellow a weak minded.he/she may know alot but pretend that they dont know anything.
whats with every one hahaha its really funny as if Saud u are a saint and Hussam u are the one will hell of a knowledge forget it man. live ur way ur life and let others live their ways.
Homosexuals are just people with different sexual orinatation, that is true...
Legalising gay marriages is a horrible mistake however that entire human race will pay for sooner or later in my openion...
shaking the very foundation of society by legalising such marriages already started having catastrophic repercutions...
I care not what happens behind closed doors...
i cant and wont impose my moral values on consenting adults...
Homosexuality is a human condition just as hetrosexuality is...
however allowing gay couples 2 adopt for example is atrocious in my openion....
its one thing that 2 consenting adults CHOOSE to be homosexuals, and a totally different thing 2 bring up a generation of children believing it is NORM..or may be even just following suit just bec thats the model of relationships they grew up around...
but thats only my humble openion....
My dear Gypsy...dont interpret the quran without reading the full text...
in the story of Lut in the Quran God exclaims FORCEFULLY...( the coming is my own loose translation, please check for more proffesional translation )
" You lust for men and leave what god created for you ( women ?????)...You are so astray from the right path..."
Also in the Quran, BECAUSE the people of Lut wouldnt abandon their ways of homsoexuality amongst men, God's retribution came swift and devistating...
Scholars have said that God ordered the Angel Gabriel to quite LITRALLY turn the village UPSIDE DOWN ...
Muslim scholars say that Gabriel litrally REMOVED the whole village and from the earth, carried it on its wing till the 7th sky ( so much so that the barking of the dogs of the village was heard by the people in the heavens) and then turned it over and let it crash towards earth ( upside down ) essentially crushing its inhabitants...
And the quran leaves no room for INTERPRATATION as to WHY THIS HAPPENED>..
It happened bec they practiced homosexuality and bragged about ( didnt discreetly do it)
Now, in my own understanding, thats no invitation 2 practice discreet homsoexuality either...
its just a simple idea
if u r indeed doing something that God has forbidden ( like homosexuality, adultery, drinking, gambeling , or whatever), DONT BOOST ABOUT IT AND DONT MAKE IT PUBLIC ...
the wisdom behind the discretion is to not " Corrupt" other members of the society who might be encouraged to immitate these " forbidden acts" bec they see them done publically...
peace out
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Finished work HA. You are steeling your boss's money by spending your paid working time to Lurk here. Steeling is Haram I think. Get lost with your preaching.
the gay marriage should not be allowed to keep the society clean from this bad habits and those who are practicing this practice should be treated as criminal. Good society is made of male and female together not male and male together or female and female together.
the rate of rape cases are very high in the west. In West the literacy is 100%. Why literacy could not teach a man there to respect woman. Why woman could not save herself from being raped.
Ummm.....recently in the Middle East I witnessed 2 Muslim woman completely covered, get harassed by 3 men...Oh and I've seen it happen quite a lot over the years.....there goes that theory
my brothers and sisters, you are forgetting the topic of this thread..religion will be forever be a debatable issue (no body will top on this one) and this will be endless..
I never checked whether the person i am adressing is man or woman. I am not telling here detailed information. Its basic knowledge that every one must have about his Allah and HIS prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H). It is your right and everyone's right to gain these information.
your face may not hurt others but may hurt yourself. It will let other men to look at your face and may lead to harrasment you know. That's why Islam wants for women to cover their faces. You may see and discuss the scholars about it ;) they must give you more information about this.
Guess it hurts him(Saud) alot more than others.Saud how old r u?how much knowledge to u really have about islam. Saud than u know that Talking to unknown woman in Islam is not allowed prohibited.Why are you getting engaged with a female here than? Grow up Pal.
You do not know how important it is for people to know about Islam. I am not imposing myself on others and i do not need to. And what you think what is the way to tell others about it.
Dear Gypsy, no law let you do what ever you like to do and all bad things you do is hurting someone, you may not feel it.
Sorry I don't think covering myself, not drinking, having premarital sex or eating pork as fun. Really my religion (the religion of Gypsy) is by far the best and easiest religion out there. Simple rule: Do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone.
Your religion is your religion Saud, nobody cares or wants to hear about it.
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Look Islam is the only religion which is comprehensive. A religion which is so easy to understand and implement in our lives. Just try it in your lives and you will find purity, clean, straight and full of fun ;)
they find my comments offensive and disrepectful. Did i blame them because they followed other religion or did my words insult their feelings. No it did not. Why not every one not believe in Allah. You know why, because they do not know about Allah. They could not get information about Allah and HIS prophets. This is every body's right to know about their GOD. Original GOD which is Allah. You see, such a managed universe can be managed by itself right. There is one power who created this universe and HE is controlling them. If you read science you will find it out. What scientists found today about how this universe came in to existence, this has been revealed by Allah in HIS book Quran 1428 years back.
Dear Scorpio, Allah have never asked anybody to-date to kill his or her family but HE instructed to behave good with family members and respect father and mother, brothers and sisters, neighbours, next seat fellows infact HE instructed to behave good to every body in the world ;) Allah is very nice GOD and i love HIM alot. I wish i could do every thing HE asked me to do. You know i do not support gay marriage because this makes him angry. Allah has created a girl to fulfil his sex desire not a man. Just remember this. I hope i have answered all the questions :D
Saud you need to realise not everyone believes in Allah and heaven and hell...people have their chosen religion not necessarily yours, and could easily find your comments offensive and disrespectful.
The earth is getting warmer because of a thing called global warming. You should read up on it you might learn something.
So I'm assuming you have dug up graves, opened the box...next time you go on another adventure can I come? Sounds like fun. I want to see the fresh blood!
Maybe you should start making decisions for yourself and start developing your own opinions about life.
Oh you didn’t answer my question, if Allah told you to kill your family would you do it?
sorry and disappointing that i could not convince you guys about what Allah wants from human beings. But i am telling yall that Allah loves you and loves you more than your relatives, monther and father. HE wants us to survive and get heaven, Really. Look for better person to tell you about all this. It is true and hell is not fake. Hell is not place of having fun, believe me.
Just think little bit, why you exist and why sun is rising and setting every day, why it is getting hotter and hotter every day, why earth is getting bitter to worst every day.
Why we exist and why we are dying. Why most of the dead bodies in the grave are still looks like they are killed just now, their blood is fresh.
There are alot to think and the answer is only that Allah is the one WHO is managing this universe and HE will destroy this earth one day and Judgement Day will take over. All creatures will get alive again and every one has to answer for their deeds and will be responsible for their own deeds only.
This life is very short and no one knows how long he/she will survive. So we better make our other life which is permenant and you will never die there.
No way I want to go to heaven. It will be toooo boring for me without a single friend of mine. I want to go to Hell. That's where all my friends live or planning to live/forced to live. :)
that i am going to heaven and i can never say this if i am said that then i am wrong nor i said you are or any one going to hell. This is Allah who will decide who has to go to heaven and hell.
But Allah has set out rules, complying with, will let the practicer go to heaven and opposing with them will let the practicer go to hell.
I will try until my last breath to convince all human being that homosexuality is not accepted to Allah, is not in favour of their health, not in favour of their society and not in favour of their family. I will try my best to help them to escape the Hell. It is easy to say that they will be burning in the hell but that hell is 70 times hotter than our earth's fire. So you can imagine how worst it can be.
As the gay couples don't actually hurt you in anyway, and don't impinge on your freedom or beliefs (and don't wish to), maybe you should just live and let live as other people have said. If everything that people say about Islam is true, then gay people are going to rot in hell and you won't have to share paradise with them.
The time is very less and lot of work to be done so please read it with care.
Allah is only God and there is no other god except HIM. HE send his beloved creature human being to the earth to see whether they (we) follow HIS instructions or not. When they started following their own thoughts and started doing whatever they liked to do then Allah sent his messangers to them to convince them to do what Allah wants them to do. Majority used to oppose and insisted on what they were practicing and there were occasions where Allah punished them on earth by different ways. One sample is there in Egypt, which is called as mummy in English.
Now one nation which is Looth's nation, as all you know about them, were practicing what majority of us are doing now a days (Homosex). Our Allah stating in HIS book Quran that no nation practiced or was practicing this practice. Allah also punished this nation like other nations. but as stated earlier, Allah punished this nation (5) ways while other nations were punished only one (1) way.
Quran is not a fictional book whether any one believe this or not, can not hurt Quran or anyone but he is hurting himself.
Allah is only one God and there is no other god except HIM is a universal truth whether the whole 6 billion population believe this or not, it is not going to hurt Allah or any one but they will be hurting themselves only.
Mohammed (P.B.U.H) is HIS last messanger there were no and will never be other messengers after him, whether anyone believe this or not, it is not going to hurt any one but he is hurting himself.
Since there will be no other messanger after Mohammed (P.B.U.H), Allah handover this responsibility to Muslims. All non-muslims may not know the truth so we muslims covey Allah's and HIS prophet Mohammed's (P.B.U.H) message to everybody. We do not hate any body and Allah do not hate human beings. But it is human being's deeds which is hated by Allah and then Allah punish that human being.
Allah gave example of Lut's nation to us to avoid this terrible practice to avoid HIS anger and punishment. If any one practice this practice he/she is not hurting anyone but hurting him/herself only. My job was to covey to everyone what Allah wants, you do it or you dont do, you are the only one going to bear the consequences :(
I am not and will not be supporting gay marriages or homsexuality even if 7 billion of population support this kind of marriage which is totaly immoral :|
LOL good one azilana, as for the rest...it's too long too read! All I know is that ur arguing about homosexuals...guys get a life..and leave theirs alone :)
And I know it by heart, it states clearly that those who performed these terrible actions were punished and only the beleivers and "NORMAL PEOPLE" who don't have sex with the same gender survived this torturing.
By the way, the punishemnt of Lut people, was never revealed to anyone before. You know why? due to the terrible actions they used to do.
I agree with those who says that homsexuals are humans and needs to be left alone doing what they want as long as they don't hurt others, but I also believe that they are sick needs spiritual and physical care and guidance.
I'm with you on the White-Middle-Aged-Male-Religious-Right Gypsy.. These men through their rich media baron mates (also part of the WMAMRR club) have way too much influence over what people watch.. It has also been widely reported that the Fox News Network was instrumental in George Dubya Bush being elected the first time. But that is a different story.
Four high school friends, who hadn't seen each other in 30 years, reunited at a party.
After several drinks, one of the men had to use the rest room. Those who remained talked about their kids.
The first guy said, "My son is my pride and joy. He started working at a successful company at the bottom of the barrel.
He studied Economics and Business Administration and soon began to climb the corporate ladder and now he's the president of the company. He became so rich that he gave his best friend a top of the line Mercedes for his birthday."
The second guy said, "Darn, that's terrific! My son is also my pride and joy.
He started working for a big airline, then went to flight school to become a pilot. Eventually he became a partner in the company, where he owns the majority of its assets. He's so rich that he gave his best friend a brand new jet for his birthday."
The third man said: "Well, that's universities and became an engineer.Then he started his own construction company and is now a
multi-millionaire. He also gave away something very nice and expensive to his best friend for his birthday: A 30,000 square foot mansion."
The three friends congratulated each other just as the fourth returned whats the congratulations for?"
One of the three said: "We were talking about the pride we feel for the successes of our sons. ...What about your son?"
The fourth man replied: "My son is gay and makes a living dancing as a stripper at a nightclub."
The three friends said: "What a shame...what a disappointment."
The fourth man replied: "No, I'm not ashamed. He's my son and I love him. And he hasn't done too bad either. His birthday was two weeks ago, and
He received a beautiful 30,000 square foot mansion, a brand new jet and a top of the line Mercedes from his three boyfriends".
First of all, it hasn't been "decades" it's been a decade, if that. Secondly I never said there weren't homophobes in the West? There are, especially among the religious zealots in the Bible belt which is where many of these assaults occur. Also the US isn't very liberal towards homosexuals and never has been, it's the rest of the West that is more tolerant.
Thirdly, there are lots of assaults against homosexuals here, but unless you know some or are part of a social group with some who are open about it, you'll never here about it...kind of like a lot of the assualts against women here. I know a guy who's in hospital now for being beaten up outside the Dairy Queen, by cops no less.
Fourthly: Will in Will & Grace is a lawyer, his boyfriend is a cop. There are several other shows with gay people in more professional positions, they just aren't really found on TV here. As for Queer Eye, that's right up there with So you want to Marry a Millionaire, I don't comment on that trash cause I don't watch it. Nor would I ever assume it represented the majority of the people in the West, whether gay or straight.
I also believe that shows like that, and rap videos and "black" tv shows are created by the middle aged religious conservative white men that run the US as a ploy to continue segregation.
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You’ve succeeded in showing how homophobic we are. However, the things that I can’t seem to understand how come after decades of liberation & gay-rights the west are yet homophobic. I see neither Qataris nor Arabs holding signs “GOD hates FAGS”, not to mention we rarely ever hear of cases of hostility, vandalizing or assaults.
Shows like “Well & grace” and “Queer eye for the straight guy” has played a role in stereotyping gay people. How come the liberated media never shed light on gay surgeons, Engineers or economists? And insist on showing the makeup artist, the interior designer & the fashion expert?
The agenda is obvious. Segregate them, display them as ‘different’. If that’s not homophobia, then what is?
I don't see any problem at all. I agree too with Gypsy. Those who abhor those people with different sexual orientation or fondly called the "third sex" MIGHT have some issues with their sexuality themselves. OR they might be brought up by their elders differently.
these people we're talking about here have one thing in common...not one of them chose to be a gay...each one have their own unique struggles in life...they all experience the challenges of self acceptance...coming out...and the hardest part of it is dealing with a society that doesn't always make life easy for them...
That being said, I see no problem what so ever with gay marriage. They are people too, with the same capable emotions as anyone else. They can and do love just as deeply and passionately as heterosexuals do. Therefore, I think that they should be able to sanctify their love for one another through the bonds of matrimony just as anyone else.
we can't judge someone just because he/she have other interests.... it's not in our hands to judge them...period...
"Homos are being hated by Allah. I hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves."
Are you Muhammed Saud? No! SO who the hell are you to say who God loves or doesn't love? Your nobody! You have no right to judge anyone, and especially no right to pretend you know what God thinks.
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As far as I can tell, there aren't too many religions which actually give anyone the right to punish anybody. If anything is a sin, it's up to God to decide the punishment. It is the height of ego for any human to assume the roll of God as judge for any sins.
If anybody is sinning, it's up to God to decide, not people.
I have gay friends and have just been invited to witness their marriage/wedding/legal union whatever you want to call it. I am proud to say that I am happy to do that. They have always been there for me. They took care of me when we were on holidays and when I was ill at one point. They are sort of like big brothers I never had, and they have never asked me for anything in return. They both have so much love to give and did a lot of voluntary /charity work at their own expense. Why should I care if they are both men?
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today.
Gypsy I totally support your arguments about homosexuality, but I don’t approve attacking other people religions and beliefs. I may believe that the bible is distorted and fiction also, but I will not go and through it in the face of Christians...I will keep it to myself. I am a practicing Muslim, but I am very open minded too, and most of the time my Muslim devout colleagues use religion to shut me up, and though my answers to their arguments are usually provocative, I don't go as far as you did, cause there are limits everyone have to respect.
Now regarding the topic, it is very difficult and intriguing one, however what we know for sure is that NO ONE CHOOSE TO BE HOMOSEXUAL, people are simply born that way, it will not go away by praying, crying, abstaining, treatment...etc.
We are human being and i respect all whether they are believers or they are not. You do not know how Allah loves you. Allah loves you more than 70 mothers. Allah always see your path, waiting when you will turn and go back to him. if you say one time "Ya Allah" Allah replies 70 times "Labbek ya Abdee", i do not know the translation of this three words you can ask your friends who know arabic and can translate for you. Dont you think it is worth to die for such great Allah.
Homos are being hated by Allah. I hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves.
Who here was around 1600 years ago when the Qur'an was delivered by Allah to his prophet? Or the bible delivered by god? How do we know that these events actually happened apart from blind faith?
Unless we have concrete evidence that these events took place no-one can say that the Qur'an is more than a work of fiction with any certainty.
The Qur'an itself is not proof of this, just as any of us would have trouble believing a person who arrived tomorrow carrying a book that claimed he/she was the almighty and powerful creator, we can't all just take the Qur'an's word for it.
My point being, why is it up to us to decide what is right and wrong against nature? What might seem right to you may in someone else's opinion be wrong. I find it disturbing, but I don't judge people who decide to cover their faces. In fact it's none of my business, and I respect them for their choices. Just like you should do with homosexuals. Have a little more respect!
Oh so if Allah told you to jump from a roof and kill your family, you would do it?
The wishes of a majority group of people are enacted by the government. This is a principle of government that was originally tried and tested long before Islam was invented 1600 years ago. As a secular, democratic society the people of Canada should not have to accept the rules laid down on them by an 'elite', powerful, lucky few.
In countries of hereditary monarchies the wishes and desires of this often small minded and inbred group restrict the individuals from achieving their own goals, wishes and desires. A similar thing in a theocracy - where a small but powerful group of clerics or priests control state policy. Why are the people of Turkey campaigning so strongly against a theocracy in their country? Because they know that it will be bad for the individual. And why would someone want to subject themselves to something bad for them?
Saud - please, tomorrow? Do you have some lottery numbers for me? I certainly accept that as a humble westerner my Qu'ran knowledge is limited, but any of the texts we read today have been altered or manipulated to suit the ever changing political climate. One doesn't get to be a Mufti, or an Archbishop, or even a Pope, by ignoring the environment. Interpretation of any dogma, and acceptance of that, is a function of how it will play to one's political masters. Otherwise you get beheaded (literally or metaphorically). As much as I'm lovin' this chat, it is close to midnight in Australia so I'm going to bed. Looking forward to a real time chat in a couple of weeks.
Women are covering their faces because they are complying with Allah's instruction. Allah did not instruct men to cover their faces but Allah told men to keep their eyes down.
Homos are disurbing the natural system and human structure also does not supporting it.
Saud, apart from anything else, the covering of the face is insupported. Here's an extract from wikipedia that quotes the relevant ayaat:
"Islam's holy book, the Qur'an, orders Muslims to dress in a "modest" fashion. Following verses are generally interpreted as applying to all Muslim men and women.
Surah an-Nur ayah 31 states:
And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful
In the following verse, Muslim women are asked to draw their jalābib (when they go out), as a measure to distinguish themselves from others, so that they are not harassed.
Those who harass believing men and believing women unjustifiably shall bear the guilt of slander and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers to draw their cloaks over them [when they go out]. That is more proper, so that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. God is ever forgiving and merciful. If the hypocrites and those who have the ailment [of jealousy] in their hearts and the scandal mongers of Madinah do not desist, We will rouse you against them, and their days in that city will be numbered. Cursed be they; wherever found, they would be seized and put to death.
— Qur'an , 33:58-61"
It specifically tells them to cover their hair and their bosoms and to wear cloaks, it permits the displaying of whatever is apparent of their beauty, save for the specific exceptions.
I find the face covering a bit 'holier than thou', as if the women are trying to be even holier and more virtuous than Allah intended them to be, which strikes me as a bit presumptious and even vainglorious. Of course, that's the women who profess to choose to cover their faces. Others are simply oppressed into doing so.
Some of you said that Homo's disturb you and is against nature....well to me woman covering her face is against nature....it's not natural...Why don't men cover their faces?
The following text and/or variations of it, are on numerous websites, and I'm not sure of the original source (except the quotes from the Qu'ran I'm assuming are from the Qu'ran):
The Qur'an and Homosexuality: There are five references in the Qur'an which have been cited as referring to gay and lesbian behavior. Some obviously deal with effeminate men and masculine women. The two main references to homosexual behavior are:
"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81
Allah Most High says: "Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives that Allah has created for you? But you are a people who transgress" Koran (26:165-66)
027.055 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!
029.028-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."
Ok, one more point to make...lol...you guys say it's not natural and is against nature to get involved in a homo relationship, because of some book blah blah...What I see disturbing and against human nature is woman covering their faces in public, and the non existent relationships with people of the opposite sex. I'm sorry but this is abnormal behavior in any society!
Dear Grantley, Quran is not word of mouth. Plus if it is 1428 years old book but gives information of tommorow and gives the information of the time which you can not even imagine. I do not blame you because you have not read and you have no information about it. Bible (Enjeel) was book came from the Sky but it is not in its original state. Christians have changed them and created versions.
But Quran is not like Bible. We keep history of every word in it and Allah by himself undertake to protect it. No one on the earth nor in this vast universe can change of word of Quran. No one in the earth nor in this vast universe can claim that a word have been changed.
Man, a club cant have rules when there are rules from higher authorities and there is no such club. They do have clubs but do not show up or if they show up government is supporting them ;)
there is a HUGE difference between a "marriage" and a "wedding". Refer my earlier point about legal status... A gay wedding isn't right because they are trying to join a club that doesn't want them. But a marriage simply legitimaises, recognizes and respects the rights that they (and all of us) are entitled to.
100% agree with you. There is NOTHING wrong with homosexuality. The problem (I reckon) is when people try to put it in a religious, rather than legal, framework. If you consider Islam, or Catholicism (or whatever), to be a form of "club", and the rules say "no", then it's not a club for you (should you be gay). The main issue is why they are denied legal status for retirement, healthcare or the other benefits that are totally taken for granted by heterosexuals. And, I love seeing the hypocritical hoo-har from the bigots, and watching them shoot themselves in he foot. I'm not an agnostic, but reckon the Bible and the Quran are 1000+ years of word of mouth. Ever heard of a game called "Chinese Whispers"?
Well Saud in this wonderful little thing called democracy, when the majority of the people want something the government gives it to them. In fact our government has defended the decision many times against minority religious fanatics, such as yourself. As for Bush, he is ignoring what the majority of the United States wants and in a democracy that is wrong.
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what you call it when people request the government to approve law for gay marriage. Canadian government was forced because people were requesting it. Why bush failed to ban gay marriages.
No Saud YOU have to read it accurately, instead of just reading into it what you want.
Homosexuality is NATURAL, therefore it exists in every culture, and in fact is very predominate here in the Middle East because it is generally accepted as long as you don't make a big deal of it. Most boys and girls here have their first sexual experiences with members of the same sex.
As for governments being forced to accept gay marriage, sorry the Canadian government wasn't forced to do anything, gay marriage is now law because the people of Canada WANT it to be.
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Man I don't know where you're from, or what's your background, but thank you for all your words, I barely read the comments here and I have to time to respond to people who do not accept their fellow human being, but your words are more than enough. thanks mate.
is because the girls are kept so protected and remote from interaction with boys. I do not agree with you. How come in western countries the rate of homosexuality is more than eastern countries though in west girls are not kept protected. I am wondering why their governements are so forced to accept gay marriages then. This is not because of this.
This is the best thread I've seen on QL for a long time! We all know that because girls are kept so protected and remote from interaction with boys in many arab countries that the end result is boys exploring their sexuality with other boys. Natural or not I don't have an issue with this. Perhaps if the countries in this part of the world took a more enlightened attitude to relationships between consenting people of different sexes there would be no need for boys to go around shagging each other!
Allah said their man was having sex with another man. That's why this nation was destroyed. So what you want more than this.
We as a human being in general and being muslims in particular, it is our duty to inform every body in this world about Allah and His prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) and His Book (Quran). We have to tell them the way which goes to Paradise and try our best to save them from hell regardles of the country. All human being have right to get paradise, in fact every body but by following Allah's rules.
It will never happen. Not only because it’s a religious/cultural taboo.
Because none of the gays in this region are interested in coming out. Plus, gay marriages are for self employed middle aged gay men who fed up from hanging out all day at gay bars.
Check the story of Lut in the Quran, check the story of Lot in the Bible, they are the same stories! Nowhere in the Quran or the Bible does it say that sex between two consenting men is wrong. Read what I posted above it is directly from the King James Bible!
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practicing rape. They were practicing homosexuality.
I can not find any where in Quran that it is prefectly ok to for a father to give away his daughters to be raped and then to have incesttous sex later.
Where you got this information from, so i can check it
What they were practicing is rape, doesn't say anything about consentual homosexual sex. It also says that it's perfectly ok to for a father to give away his daughters to be raped AND then to have incestous sex later. Sorry if I don't put a lot of stock in this story. :P
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That passage is from the Bible Saud. I've been trying to find passages from the Quran dealing with homosexuality, but am turning up nothing. Hmmmm maybe God never said a damned thing about homosexuality. :P
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My dear gypsy, Quran is not fictional and it can never be. It does not matter whether you belive in this book and you do not. It is proved in all ages that no one can creat book like this because the words in Quran is not the human being's words, it is Allah's words. He challenged every body in the world, every body in all means and with all means and everything which any body think can help him, can not and can never creat book like this.
I am sorry for those who dont believe in this book, really i am because this book is not against them but tell the truth to help them.
Scorpio, I'm still waiting for someone to point out where in that section it says that consenting homosexual sex is a sin. Nobody is apprantely up to the task. :(
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I'm very pleased that you believe it all, but as far as I'm concerened the Quran is a nice little work of fiction written by someone 1600 years ago. And what exactly am I going to get caught for? Being an agnostic? Drag me away then.
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Madame, could you please tell me in what sense you say Quran is fictional? This is Qatar and its not your western country/culture where you can just express whatever you feel! Your comments are pretty enough here to get caught! And don't take it easy as Quran is something you can use your normal way to comment and tease! Please bear in mind!
Don't comment on Quran as you are just ignorant about Quran! The way you comment is exactly offensive and you are just trying to get things worse!
Tell me where in this next passage it says that sex between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, is wrong.
1: And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2: And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3: And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4: But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6: And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7: And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8: Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9: And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10: But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11: And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12: And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14: And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15: And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16: And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17: And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18: And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19: Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20: Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21: And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22: Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23: The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25: And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26: But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27: And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
28: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
29: And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
30: And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31: And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33: And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34: And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our Father.
35: And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36: Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37: And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38: And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
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Our Quran told us about a nation called as Looth's nation. This nation was practicing homosexuality and they believed in this relation as majority of our nation do now. They were destroyed because they reached to their limit and only one man and his couple of daughters were avoiding homosexuality.
Our Quran said they where punished with throwing stones from the sky, earth quake, they were turned to other creatures from human beings, they were lifted up and then thrown to the earth.
I believe it is terrible. This earth belongs to Allah he has set out rules to keep this earth clean. Homosexuality is not keeping the earth clean but it is dirt which will spoil everything whether someone liked it or hated it.
There were laws against homosexuality and still is in most countries, and people still practiced it. And homosexuality can harldy be likened to killing people (which lots of people also do, reagardless of laws). Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone.
And here in Qatar there are many many many homosexuals, more so even then in most western countries, also many many more young boys and girls experiement with homosexuality because they don't have access to the opposite sex. They do show up here, all the time, and many are pretty openly gay.
If this nation you referred to is the fictional Gromorrah, then you will have to try better then that, because there is no real evidence that Gromorrah ever existed, much more it is even debatable if God condemned them for homosexuality.
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It is not true. Majority are doing it because there is no power stopping them from doing it yet. Just imagine if there was no law against killers then i bet majority of the world population were killers.
Now, here in Qatar majority are not supporting this immoral practice that's why majority are not doing it if they are doing it they just do not show up because of the consequences.
You may believe me or may be you will not, there was a whole nation destroyed just because they turned to animals or worst and only one man and few girls could make it to survive. When there will be no one from human being opposing this practice then this whole nation will also be destroyed.
What consequences Saud? There has been no consequences. Despite this naturally occuring phenomena (which yes, if the majority are doing it, it means it's pretty damned natural) we have a world population of over 6 billion, which is far to many. So...what other consquences are there?
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It is not naturally occuring. It is against human nature whether someone accepted or rejected it. Every nation got good people and bad people but any one just cant generalize it. Also no one can call homosexuality a natural practice just becasue majority are doing it. History witnessed the consequences of this practice and no one can ignore it even if somebody pretend to do it.
By the way Gypsy i am not against hetero sexual sex and i think i do not need to see someone in this regard. Thank God I am married and have two kids which is natural ;) Thanks for the advice
Go hand out by the Dairy Queen some night Ramhino and we shall see if you change your opinion. ;)
Beastiality is nowhere nearly as common as homosexuality and there's a very different mindset, as well as consent issues. If you associate homosexuals with people who practice beastiality it's you that has the problem, not the homosexuals.
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hmmm fellas..no shouting (using exclamation points), clearly we are just making ourselves heard here..so lets not take it all personally..focus on the topic or I'll be sorry that I post the topic.. :)
I know lots of history Raminho, and there's been homosexuality in the Arab world since there's been Arabs.
Why does seeing two guys make you sick? I bet you enjoy it when it's two girls.
Why keep it on the low, people should be allowed to celebrate their love for all to see. Wouldn't you want to hold your wife or girlfriends hand in public? Or kiss her?
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And yes I had a gay couple make-out infront of me and it made me sick, it has been so open in Qatar nowadays and you can see it in some clubs...CLEARLY!!
I think this issue should be kept on the low!! Im not against it if you're not too open about it...Thats all!!
And please do not talk about arab culture whether its pre-islamic or not!! coz obviously u dont know history!!
Oookkkkk Saud, so I take it you're against hetero sexual sex as well. Obviously you have some MAJOR issues in regards to sex. Perhaps you should see someone about that.
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Homosexuality and their supportive destroying nature and it beauty. I can not believe that someone want to have sex with every one who he or she loves. Love itself is very pure feeling and is free from dirt and sex. No one can prove that sex is an expression of love. Sex is a desire someone wants to fulfill.
Homosexual marriage and its practice is exactly the same as someone wants to steal something or kill someone.
There has been homosexuality since humans began. And in many cultures it was considered the norm and perfectly acceptable (Including pre Islamic Arab culture). So sorry it hasn't always been. Also in many countries today homosexuality is considered perfectly acceptable and they are allowed to marry and adopt children. So it won't always be.
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Exactly Animals!!! Do not compare humans to animals, coz we can think they cant!! It is against human nature if it sounds better!! And dont ask how is it against human nature!! It always has been and always will be!!
Exactly Animals!!! Do not compare humans to animals, coz we can think they cant!! It is against human nature if it sounds better!! And dont ask how is it against human nature!! It always has been and always will be!!
Anyone who is offended by homosexuality is simply not secure in their own sexuality Scorpio. Frankly I think anyone willing to get married these days should be commended. :)
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I don't understand why people are so against gay marriages. How does it affect you? Are these people hurting you or your family? So what's it to you? If you don't like it ignore it and move on.
I find arranged marriages more offensive, at least with gay marriages, its two people in love. That’s the most important thing.
Homosexual relationships or marriage is fake and this is created by ourselves only. This relationship is free of emotions, lack of shame and throws human being to the level which is lower than animal's level.
As long as the same sex couple are production members of a society I don't see any problem with it, afterall marriage is just a paper document, whether civil or in a church. I've been living with my partner for 2.5 years now and it does feel like marriage. Hehehe :P:P:P
Hey JoeKanuck, I'm a girl and I know the offside rule.
But then I'm a third generation Manchester United fan who kind of inherited my club from my grandfather (he used to go and support them from the terraces).
What's with your obssession with a white man and an asian guy? I know a couple of guys that are of different races and have stayed together.
As for the "basic defintion of a society" marriage is simply a commitment between two people, if you're gay you aren't going to be getting involved in a hetrosexual relationship anyway, why not allow them the same benefits of hetrosexual couples?
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Let’s talk about Sexual Orientation. Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?
http://qatarliving.com/node/13109
...you are right...it was a year ago...
Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain!- UNKNOWN
especially since this one ran for 4 pages in the first place!
Most of the people who are still active on QL already said their piece here lol
Also, Owen posted this in relation to a previous post (at that time - a year ago!) and we now don't have any idea what that was!
Seems to be a current fad to search QL to find old posts.
and look what thread did they pick up now :) It is either they were hunting the thread itself or hunting the author of it :) If it is the second case then let me now :)
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. (Gautama Buddha)
Like they say ...
God made Adam for Eve, not Adam for Steve
ms. alexa is so right, no big deal in this..
you guys are really bored, diggin up old forum topics.. lol..
[img_assist|nid=12867|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.
mmm theres always one who doth protest too much on this subject.....nuff said
ACtually Islam acknowledge a person becoming attracted to the same sex. And agrees that it is very common and desirable among the people at times. However, Islam also tells us to control our desires for the greater good! Which is why being homosexual is outlawed.
As homosexual acts are not natural (although some people desire them).
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Wow this thread is still alive, after almost a year lol. I am against same sex marriages.. Just doesnt sound right.
--------------------
"Be Like a Flower, Which gives off it's fragrance
even to the hand that crushes it."
All religions call for marriage...
All religions condemn adultry...
All religions condemn homosexuality...
'they' don't like this...
'they' want 'freedom'..
'they' decide to revolt on the church...break the rules...kick religion away from 'their' lives...
so 'they' start committing & living in adultry...
bring illegitimate children to this world...
but that's not enough....'they' want more 'freedom'
'they' turn to homosexuality....gays & lesbians...
'they' start to live with 'their' homosexual partners
now 'they' want to get married to them!!!
So they are back to square 1: marriage...which they have 'freed' 'themselves' from when 'they' started revolting!
so now we have ended up with:
marriage between males & females is ugly, old-fashioned & retarded!
marriage between homosexuals is nice, cool & open-minded.
This is why I have so much respect to Islam. It has always predicted that times will come when 'right' will be considered 'wrong', and 'wrong' will be considered 'right'
i dont know.this time really i dont know what to say.sorry owen.
...very well presented and, almost, completely flawed.
There is not one word in that well written article which can actually be shown to be true, in other words, proven.
There is no absolute scientific proof that gays are born and there is no absolute scientific proof that they are created. There are indications, theories, extrapolations and plenty of guesses but no proof...for either side. How "gayness" happens is still open for conjecture. I imagine there is more than one way.
There is scientific proof that they do exist now and have existed in the past. We can speculate that there will be gays in the future and that there were gays in prehistory, but we have no way to prove that.
Those articles state opinion, which is just fine since everybody is entitled to theirs. Just don't confuse it with proof.
Behavior and Not a Person
“In short, the gay lifestyle - if such a chaos can, after all, legitimately be called a lifestyle - it just doesn’t work: it doesn’t serve the two functions for which all social framework evolve: to constrain people’s natural impulses to behave badly and to meet their natural needs. While it’s impossible to provide an exhaustive analytic list of all the root causes and aggravants of this failure, we can asseverate at least some of the major causes. Many have been dissected, above, as elements of the Ten Misbehaviors; it only remains to discuss the failure of the gay community to provide a viable alternative to the heterosexual family.” (Kirk and Madsen, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of the Gay’s in the 90s, p.363)
The authors of this book published in 1989 self-identify as gay. Kirk graduated from Harvard University in 1980. Madsen has taught on the faculty of Harvard University. He is a public-communications expert, designed commercial advertising for Madsen Avenue, and guided strategy for the Positive Images Campaign. This campaign was the first national gay advertising effort in American. The following quote from the introduction of their book along with the title of the book perhaps gives a very strong indication of the authors’ belief in a homosexual agenda. Perhaps this may be their motivation for writing the book.
“The campaign we outline in this book, though complex, depends centrally upon a program of unabashed propaganda, firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising.” (Kirk and Madsen, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of the Gay’s in the 90s, p.xxvi)
These two quotes are just a sampling of many others written in books and articles published by those who advocate for homosexuality or self-identify as gay that may be read on this web site. Larry Houston who is writing the articles on this web site self-identifies as a former homosexual. His story may be read in the section, Larry’s story. This section also includes an article about Larry facing discrimination at Harvard University for being an ex-gay. In the section Overcoming Homosexuality are articles helpful not only to those struggling with homosexuality but also to anyone who desires a better understanding about homosexuality. The section Legal and Political has articles Larry uses lobbying the Massachusetts State Legislature on the issue of same-sex marriage. This section also has documents that were apart of a direct legal challenge to Goodridge, the legal case that resulted in allowing same-sex marriage in Massachusetts by judicial decree, 4 non-elected Massachusetts judges. The parameters of a discussion of homosexuality are best framed in the following way. Who one is, a homosexual or what one does, homosexuality. The support is strongest for the latter. The following quotes are by a man who self-identifies as gay. John D’Emilio is a university professor, author, and a gay historian. He too agrees that it is homosexuality, what one does. Homosexuality is an illegitimate attempt to meet the legitimate need for intimacy in same-sex relationships.
“There is another historical myth that enjoys nearly universal acceptance in the gay movement, the myth of the “eternal homosexual.” The argument runs something like this: Gay men and lesbians always were and always will be. We are everywhere; not just now, but throughout history, in all societies and all periods. This myth served a positive political function in the first years of gay liberation. In the early 1970s, when we battled an ideology that either denied our existence or defined us as psychopathic individuals or freaks of nature, it was empowering to assert that “we are everywhere.” But in recent years it has confined us as surely as the most homophobic medical theories, and locked our movement in place. Here I wish to challenge this myth. I want to argue that gay men and lesbians have not always existed. Instead they are a product of history, and have come into existence in a specific historical era. Their emergence is associated with the relations of capitalism; it has been the historical development of capitalism-more specifically, its free-labor system-that has allowed a large numbers of men and women in the late twentieth century to call themselves gay, to see themselves as part of a community of similar men and women, to organize politically on the basis of that identity.” (D’Emilio, Making Trouble Essays on Gay History, Politics, and the University, p.5)
“I have argued that lesbian and gay identity and communities are historically created, as a result of a process of capitalist development that has spanned many generations. A corollary of this argument is that we are not a fixed social minority composed for all time of a certain percentage of the population. There are more of us than one hundred years ago, more of us than forty years ago. And there may very well be more gay men and lesbians in the future. Claims made by gays and nongays that sexual orientation is fixed at an early age, that large numbers of visible gay men and lesbians in society, the media, and the schools will have no influence on the sexual identities of the young are wrong. Capitalism has created the material conditions for homosexual desire to express itself as a central component of some individuals’ lives; now, our political movements are changing consciousness, creating the ideological conditions that make it easier for people to make that choice.” (D’Emilio, Making Trouble Essays on Gay History, Politics, and the University, p.12)
Inventing the “Homosexual” and Identifiting a "Homosexual" are the two main sections on banap. The above two quotes are used more than once in these two sections. Inventing the “Homosexual” is a historical look of people and events that traces the history of homosexuality. The concept of homosexuality has a very short history, the word “homosexual” was coined in the late 1860s in Germany. The section Identifying a “Homosexual” has articles contianing information by those advocating for homosexuality attempting to to provide support for the ideal of a distinct individual, called a homosexual. In this section you will find information for a biological basis for homosexuality. The section, Bibliography, is an alphabetical list of sources used in compiling the information for banap. The number of sources is large so this section has two articles. One article is a list of books, and the second is a list of journal articles. Thank you for visiting banap.net This web site is regularly being revised and updated. Plans are being made to publish this information in a book form. banap.net is a resource for those seeking a greater understanding of “homosexuality.” Homosexuality is an illegitimate attempt to meet the legitimate need for intimacy in same-sex relationships.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds..
What the homosexual parenting studies do show:
“What is possible, given the collective limitations of these three studies, is to conclude that there appears to be some significant differences between children raised by lesbian mothers versus heterosexual mothers in their family relationships, gender identity, and gender behavior.” (Belcastro et al. “A Review of Data Based Studies Addressing the Affects of Homosexual Parenting on Children’s Sexual and Social Functioning.” p.119.)
“The author suggests that these studies have ignored significant potential effects of gay childrearing on children, including increased development of homosexual orientation in children, emotional and cognitive disadvantages caused by the absence of opposite-sex parents, and economic security.” (Wardle, “The Potential Impact of Homosexual Parenting on Children.” p.833)
“Even in a utopian society, however, one difference seems less likely to disappear: The sexual orientation of parents appears to have a unique (although not large) effect on children in the politically sensitive domain of sexuality. The evidence, while scanty and underanalyzed, hints that parental sexual orientation is positively associated with the possibility that children will be more likely to attain similar orientation - and theory and common sense also support such view.”(Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.177-178)
It is the two sociologists, Stacy and Biblarz, who acknowledge their bias in that they support homosexual parenting. Stacy and Biblarz admit that there are flaws in the homosexual parenting studies, “We have identified conceptual, methodological, and theoretical limitations in the psychological research on the effects of parental sexual orientation . . .” They believe it is homophobia and heterosexism that prevents homosexual parenting from being on par with heterosexual parenting. So for them it is not homosexuality itself that prevents good parenting, but the society and culture, even though our society and culture today allows unprecedented historical acceptance of homosexuality. What is most surprising of all, are their comments that “social sciences research” is not grounds for determining the effects of homosexual parenting on children in the political consideration of granting parental rights for homosexual parenting. They are sociologists themselves.
“We agree, however, that ideological pressures constrain intellectual development in this field. In our view, it is the pervasiveness of social prejudice and institutionalized discrimination against lesbians and gay men that exerts a powerful policing effect on the basic terms of psychological research and public discourse on the significance of parental orientation. The field suffers less from overt ideological convictions of scholars than from the unfortunate intellectual consequences that follows from implicit hetero-normative presumptions governing the terms of the discourse - that healthy child development depends upon parenting by a married heterosexual couple.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.160)
“On contrary, we propose that homophobia and discrimination are the chief reasons why parental sexual orientation matters at all.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.177)
“Even were heterosexism to disappear, however, parental sexual orientation would probably continue to have some impact on the eventual sexuality of children.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.178)
“Thus, while we disagree with those who claim that there are no differences between children of heterosexual parents and children of lesbigay parents, we unequivocally endorse their conclusion that social science research provides no grounds for taking sexual orientation into account in the political distribution of family rights and responsibilities.” (Stacy & Biblarz. “(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?” p.179)
“For well over a century homosexualists have dreamed that the invention of the homosexual as a person would ultimately detoxicate homosexual behavior and win a place of equality alongside heterosexual behavior.” (De Ceeo, “Confusing the Actor With the Act: Muddled Notions About Homosexuality”, p. 411)
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds..
Believe it or not, I mostly agree with it too. No good can come from people proclaiming about what they don't understand themselves. Religion is, by its very nature, deeply personal. To insult ones religious beliefs, is to insult the very core of that person.
As far as I can see, so far nobodys mind has been changed about anything in these threads. It's great to present ones opinion as long as you realise everyone else is free to disagree. This especially seems to hold true for religious beliefs.
I think the easiest way to keep things relatively civil would be if we kept things on a secular level.
Feel free to disagree...
I totaly agree with you. I realised this.
For God's sake man, educate yourself before posting any comment, you're just making a fool out of yourserlf...Gay parents not neccessarily culture gay sons. i myself know of a couple, very good friends of mine, who live in france and have an adopted son, who is now 29 years old, married and has his own children. Just because you have some twisted theory in your mind doesn't make it true to the world.By the way, can you also post an experiment or a study backing up your theories?!! I thought so...Thanks.
The words you write in your comments, you should repeat to yourself: "None but ourselves can free our minds..."
Saud, you have fought and won with due observation on the conduct of a good communicator. I really admire you. I have confidence you can do much to protect Islam and Muslim belief from ridicule.
Two days ago i posted a thread on how to prevent Islam from ridicule and i am glad you are doing it. Although Darude sometimes is i dont know what to say ...
Brother it is necessary to avoid using Quran quotes or Sacred teaching of Islam in forums like QL with elements which are just out to tanish and ridicule Islam out of no where.
Therefore lets use 'nature' 'human rights' 'logical reasoning' to convince others.
In my thread: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/14336 you'll read Quran quotes and i wrote them for Muslims only, I promise not to repeat that again.
I ask you to join my campaign of not giving OTHERS a chance to ridicule and Insult to Islam in QL. I know they may create a chance of their own and satisfy their chieve their ego, but thats them and as they put it, they are free to hurt and heal, and they to continuosly hurt because they don't have 'heal' and don't know how to. I am thinking also of talking to some concerned people to seek their opinion on what should be done in this regard. Its too much and so hurting.
I wish i could convince 'qatari' to filter words like Allah, Quran, Jesus and make sure they're respected, just like filtering the f*** and s*** factors.
__________________
Forgive & Forget.
Gay marriages is against the principles of society.
Lucky for them, we are not living the Inquisition days.
Yep, they are raising adoptive kids to be more gay than their foster parents and promoting their believes, conduct and morals.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds..
are not straight. Allah help them out this.
Excuse me Privet??? I get my ideas from a Glossy Mag? And what does that make you? Oh Ya! A fat middle aged English bore, divorced once because his Western woman probably couldn't stand being his mommy too and waiting for a submissive Asian to fawn over him.
Get a life dude.
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You must have all the ladies banging on your door with ignorant comments like that.
So tell me, what is wrong with the "modern woman"? Are you worried that they are too intelligent for the likes of you.
You must feel threatened by woman with comments like "down grade men"...hmmm....me thinking your not used to open minded, spirited, witty woman :p
Gypsy, the western women I was referiing to was you, a modern sterotype, glossy mag reader is where you get your ideas of the modern woman and live by it, it screams out the page! It's the high level western womens insitute conspiracy theory to pervert the minds of young women, and to down grade men. Gays are Ok though, they sit on the fence!
I grew up in a poor area too, and most of the kids are trouble making losers now, their kids following suit. It dosen't happen in all cases, yes some choose to do the opposite to their parents, I still to this day completely disagree with my parents, they grew up in a small mining vilage and were ignorant of the outside world, they didn't want me to go to college because they didn't want to support me, so i worked and went to college. It's difficult to say a child will do this or that, but with sexuality you follow what you see to be normal I think, but I never grew up with gays or have known anyone who has.
Privet!
Its a state of mind..
I think I'm probably ok...when I say I would love to get into some woman's pants, I'm not talking about exchanging clothing...unless it's really pretty...
that love should be a reason for gay marriage
Im just wondering who are you and who gave you to decide that love should not be a reason for gay marriages, Im not involvedc in it and you're not involved in it, so don't make judgements!
gay marriage should not be supported since it is fake relationship :)
Love should not be a reason for gay marriages
i didnt mean that you insulted my Allah. Others did. May be i should write it other way. Once again i am sorry, ma apologies :)
Hussanmf, taking an interest in sports because your parents are invloved in sports is no where near changing your sexual orientation because your parents are gay.
Actually my mother coached Mens College and High school basketball and soccer, and my father coached hockey, The only thing on TV in the house was sports, and I HATE sports. I refused to be involved in any sports as a child and only now as I have gotten older have I taken the slightest interest in Hockey,more of a national pride thing really. My brother is the same way!
My nighbours in my hometown were both alcoholics, drunk ALL the time, didn't work, didn't do anything but cause problems. Their children don't drink at all and have excellent jobs.
Two of my classmates are from single mothers who got pregnant at the age of 16, both of them are happily married now, one for the last 2 years and one just recently. They are both 27 and no kids yet. Neither of their mothers have married yet.
I have friends who's fathers and mothers are doctors, lawyers, engineers and their children are gas station attendants or work at MacDonalds.
Parents who never touched a drop of alcohol or drugs who have kids that are herion addicts.
Etc Etc.
I can't think of a single person really who emulates their parents the way you say they should.
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Once again....where have I insulted Allah and used foul language....or been uncivil? I'm not having this discussion with people who don't know the difference between the word "nonsense" and foul language.
judging any one but i am not saying being a gay is very good or should be allowed because it is based on love. Human have been doing it and still they knew that what they were doing was not right. It is a desire a person want to fulfil. You can call it a love to fulfil a desire, you know like thief have desires to steal things.
Supporting gay marriage is equal to admit that homosexual sex is right thing to do. Even millions of westerns they admit that it is bad practice.
Now Allah (though i avoided bringing Allah in this matter any more because you do not know HIM and you all continue to insult HIM which i can never bear) wants you to live clean and natural life complying HIS instructions to get heaven and save ourselves from hell. I am not hiding behind Allah and i am not forming my own opinions. Even Darude he knows this since he is muslim. He can tell you better than me about Islam and what Islam wants. Ask any of 1 Billion muslim. You are free to ask anyone if you do not believe me.
Have I missed something....umm what foul language are you talking about?
ur use of language is uncalled for dude...
trust me, i can use foul language and call ur openions names as well as the next person...but a little civility is in order here...
i stated my proof scorpio, u r just skimming thru to find an attacking point rather than reading 2 understand what i am trying 2 say
" put someone in ANY CONDUCIVE Environment to become something, and they most likely will be that something, NOT ALWAYS,but MOST LIKELY.."
"if a kid is born into a familly where the dad and the mom are olympic atheletes, he/she will most likely take an interest in sports..."
u have not commented on this argument, which makes me assume u accept it as valid ...
only when the same argument included the word gay, it became " crap"!!
:)
cheers buddy
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Your not getting my point Saud....we have no right to judge others...hiding behind Allah is just an excuse so you don't have to form your own opinions!
Hmm today at 2pm Abu Hamour Grave Yard fresh Blood QL oh was that fresh blood or first blood.
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of arranged marriages. Marriages should be with agreement from both sides ;)
Well I think arranged marriages shouldn't be supported, and are abnormal....but who am I to say!!! Saud just let it be.
Oh, when are we going on our digging adventure ;)
it is arab who are homosexual or it is european who are homosexual or it is asian who are homosexual, this will remain bad thing and thos who are doing it should be helped to be out of this practice.
Those who are doing it, no one can stop them and they have this matter with Allah to resolve with. But gay marriages should never be supported. There must be a law who should stop them if they found doing it same as having sex in public which is moraly unaccepted in all countries even if they are husband and wife.
Gay relationship or gay marriages will always remain illegal even if corrupted system allowed them to have it. If anyone thing that gays are not hurting anyone so they should be allowed to do it. They hurt everyone human in this world with this.
now there are 2 topics regarding gays no matter how much you encourage them or i too Remember i am a Muslim.
But still every one will come criticizing them as if they are criminals of a society and trying to ruins ones culture.well they are not harmin any one they even are not pokking in any ones life still they are criminals for them.i had friends lesbians gays i never had any problem,what they are they like it that way.they are giving references from Quran i will come up with a stronger one let me see what answer they got for it.
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Hmmm Privet, you're hilarious. Seriously...talk about generalisation. Why not start a thread that says all western women are WHORES!!!..lol
if a kid is raised by a gay couple , he/she will be inclined to be gay..NOT ALWAYS, but MOST LIKELY!!!
Where do you get this nonsense from? Seriously, do you have proof of this? If being gay is going to be the worst thing to happen to a person, well sign me up for it now :D
LOL
Ok...stop it...this is all too much for me to take...I can't hide anymmore...I admit it...I'm a LESBIAN...don't hate me...*sniff*...
What do Western women have to do with this subject Privet?
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Not always, or ever do we folllow what those around us choose to do, we are individual but psycologically a lot of things are learned from those around us, I agee with that.
In terms of suffering children around the world, I don't think you can use this as an excuse for some one to adopt, as in "well they could be dying in some jungle" however this lovely gay couple have have chosen to adoption him/her, aren't they so lucky.
As far as questioning ones sexuality and being afraid to do it, I've never heard such crap. The fact is most don't ever need to question it, look at the world, by far the majority don't have a problem with it.
The new age western woman is full of glossy magazine and no substance, and it's a fast growing trend.
Privet!
You know, all this thread really does is prove the ignorance is bliss. As long as I think being gay is disgusting or wrong, I won't have to ever do the scary thing of questioning my own sexuality. :P
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i would have though my logic would be clear by now!:)
some geniouses give birth to stupid kids and super atheltes may give birth to disdavnatged children!!!
i m not talking about exceptions...i m talking about the rules of life and the universe...
put someone in ANY CONDUCIVE Environment to become something, and they most likely will be that something, NOT ALWAYS,but MOST LIKELY..
if a kid is born into a familly where the dad and the mom are olympic atheletes, he/she will most likely take an interest in sports...
if a kid is raised by a gay couple , he/she will be inclined to be gay..NOT ALWAYS, but MOST LIKELY!!!
starting from the premise that homosexuality is wrong ( whether morally or for the pure reason of the continuation of the human race, u take ur pick)...i would like to hope that we dont put children in a situation where bieng gay is something they see as desirable !!!:)
is my logic clearer now?
cheers buddy
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
you on fire rest i cant say anything (censor).
the problem is for them homo or hetro are kind of aliens not human. i dont know why they dont understand this. yes i am also muslim but respecting a humans feeling thats must. there is no such big diff in them or us. its all about passion caring love and feelings for one. hmm what??? i said alot on this post. still they get some thing new.
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DaRude, I'm always on fire...come on admit it, you love it :p
I know a gay couple raising 2 kids and they are heterosexual. I also know a heterosexual couple who have a gay child.
It happens all the time. There are thousands and thousands of scenarios like this. I don't understand your logic!
on fire i better leave b4 she stings. this topic seems like its never gona end any where. why dont u ppl leave others on their own let them live as they like it be lesbian or gay.what ever they are they are for themself not for you or asking for any fav from you. they wana live as u live. you got ur own ways to live they like their own ways to live. if you really dont like them fine avoid it ignore it why are u trying to point at some ones entity.u be ur self and let them be on their own. are u really being hurt by that. or are they asking u for money to feed them.
LIfe Doesnot Consist of holding good cards but also playing a poor hand will.
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my heart goes out to all abused and neglected children scorpio...
in my mind that has no bearing on my original argument...
hososexuality is a human condition, i accept that bec i have 2...not bec i think it is right...
i simply dont believe young children should be subjected to an environment which could lead them 2 adopt homosexual atitudes out of bieng comfortable with it as something they are used as opposed to doing it bec of thier biological inclination...
no more so than i think young children should not be brought up by alcholics or drug users or abusive parents or criminals!!!
you pick these things up as a child...
i m more comfortable with hoping that children are bieng brough up amongst hetrosexual families with no diviant attitudes or behaviour!whether sexual or otherwise...
i dont think thats a bad thing:)
cheers
like i said,thats my openion...
i m not trying 2 impose it on any one, i m just stating it..!!
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Honestly, some people...lol...if children living in happiness, have parents who love them regardless of the sex of the parents, why,why, why take that away from someone because you think it's wrong?
Wouldn't u prefer a child to be in safe home regardless of somebodies sex? Or are you that narrowminded...phhhh!
If kids knowing that they have parents of the same sex is what concerns you, spare a thought to all those sexually, physically, mentally abused children out there who have both a mother and father who don’t give a crap.
If gay couples are raising a perfectly happy and healthy child, what is so wrong and evil about that? If there is love and a happy family involved why is it any of our business to judge? Just let people in living in harmony, they are not hurting you!
I start feeling bored too. Yalla! azzy start ur new thread. hmmm i wonder what is it all about this time?
people whenever i click on something it keeps bringing me back to this topic, it seems that everybody on the forum is in it. i read the first part but i have no intention of reading 6!!!! pages of opinions!! and i assume this will go on and on and on since everybody has a different opinions about it, and since i am having a bad day (bored one) and was passing time on QL!! i am fed up of comming to this topic over and over again whenever i click something on the site.
so my opinion is Live and let live (i think someone wrote that before) anyway .... and let PEOPLE DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH WHOEVER THEY WANT (as long as there are no children and animals involved), if someone is pleased and is having fun with another same sex person WTF that has to do with u!! if you are straight than fine be happy rais your children as you want and let others worry about there children. For those who dont like it IGNORE IT and dont look, as some people ignore you and the fact that you look at other people's wives/gf/sisters as fresh meat. i prefer to have gay people minding their own business rather than straight people staring at me or my wife/sister....
buttom line GET A LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!
Boris is having a bad dayy!!
But I have to make sure I won't offend anyone this time...A hint for you...it's being practiced in the west and in the islam world...
Think...think...think...
dont hijack this thread, go back to bored boris thread!;)
I was raised by my Mom. I barely knew my dad. By some miracle, I turned out to be hetrosexual.
That's the way it works for most people. We do most of our learning based on our own experiences. We get guidance from out parents but,ultimately, what we feel comes from inside.
There is no such thing as "gays are", or "straights are" no more than you can say "Men are", or "Canadians are" or "Qataris are".
Look around. It is not possible to generalize accurately about any group of people. To do so is, at best, silly; at worst assinine and self servingly egotistical.
How about instead of drawing any conclusions about gays, ask them. You know what you'll find? You'll find what they are about as individuals. You will still not have any answers about 'gays' in general.
That's because there are no answers. Every single person in the world is an individual.
Before judging someone you have never met and know nothing about, maybe you can remember how it feels to have someone judge you.
what new topic you got in ur head. if it was about some thing ADULT sure am gona at you :)
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I'll start my new topic tonight (Insha' Allah)...so I'm practicing dodging Darude's missiles now...hehehehehehe
:)
i m not just arguing for the sake of argument gypsy...
u do acknoweldge that young children imitate the relationships of thier care takers..
growing up, i knew my dad was with my mom ( a woman )...
so bieng the same gender as my dad, i sought out women to experiment with...
if i grew up with my dad bieng with uncle tom, i would have probably sought out uncle sam;s son to experiment with...
it doesnt take a genious to do this kind of deduction...
children of gay couples may not know exactlly what thier "parents" do in the bedroom, but they do know that they are with a member of the same sex ...thats obvious enough!
and what i told u in my earlier post is common knoweldge..
for someone who knows gay men and women, i m sure u must have came across the same info at one point or another...
its also documented sychological research ....
and most of all, its mere common sense!
even totally straight males who are brough up amongst straight women, ( but only women ) without a male figure in thier lives, tend to be more sensetive and more capable of understanding female attitudes, and usually in many ways act in a feminine way ( untill they discover that they wont ever get laid that way loool)
any how...
i understand what u r trying 2 say...
i agree in part, and disagree with another part...
no biggy...
take care
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
click the page the scroll down and than click the 6page and than wait and here come see some comments Saud is out watching Gay Movies he will take a lesson and come back with new comments lol
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Wouldn't it be a blast if Saud's kids came out of the closet :p
Yep Saud they have sex in India on the streets...
After a while they get stuck together back to back.
(I m talking about the Dogs.....)
Some times they get stoned. (I mean people throwing stones at them).
Marriage was founded as an institution for a couple to bear children.
Previously in the stone age the new born & the mother would be vunerable to wild animals & wild tribes so a need for man to protect them and get food.
It was kind of like he was responsible for hunting, food etc & she was to take care of the child & house. Just like any other animal-couple in the wild.
It is because of the child that the man & woman had to bind into a contract for Marriage.
If there is no child-birth in question then there would be no reason for MARRIAGE to exist either HOMO or HETRO.
Explanation of SIN:
Unprotected anal sex could give you infection - Since this concept was difficult to explain to people back then it was generally termed as SIN. So in the sense if you do not sin you are clean (disease free).etc.
Similarly for a Hindu it was a sin if he did not wash his hand & feet before eating food. Not only that it was a sin if he did not pour water on the ground around himself & the food ( The wet ground acts like a barrier for any insects from creaping in).
Similarly Adultry is a sin because it can cause jealousy & rage in the spouse & can lead to man-slaughter.
wooooooooooooooooooooooof
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is that being a gay is very bad thing. Here the gays want this to be spread worldwide. They are not enough that they are gay. They want others to be gays too. It means they are spoiled and want to spoil other childrens too. You all will find me alone facing you, if there is no one to help me, to resist these creatures who want to spoil others. Gays, ofcourse, will not call this as bad because they are doing it. Killer will never say that killing is bad nor the theif nor the rapist. But it is actually bad thing and only natural people will find it bad.
its a matter of two consenting persons, who does not want to hurt any body. Dont you think they should get their right :)
My opinion is we have to live and let live.
Personally I am uncomfortable with homosexuals who flaunt their stuff in public and a lot of them do, they even have festivals for this type of camp activity. There's no need to go over the top and that is when I dislike it, as long as they keep it behind closed doors and respect the feeling of others, then I will respect them.
I have met some whom seem very nice people, but the very act of what they get up to repulses me - that is just not normal.
Privet.
Looks like Gypsy and Saud are the only 2 who make this thread keep going until now :)
i will kill u both now stop it :S
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Ummm, cause nobody wants to see that? Sex is an intimate experience between two (or more) people not a public show.
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In West why sex is not allowed in public
I did not say that I don't like these people or have anything against them. I'm just trying to answer some of the questions that would got into the mind of anyone who would hear about that. You are right, these people do exist so what should we do? Ignoring them or treat them like they are not there is not a solution. To be honest with you Gypsy .. I've met some of them here accidentally, you can find them everywhere and out of all that I met only 1 or 2 were ok.
The rest were possessed with the .... you know the idea as well as I was having kinda of a nice body back then and looks like they were thinking that I'm the right man for this but they were wrong. I was shocked when one of them asked for my phone number [he was with a friend] telling me that we might hang out sometimes and having fun and there is nothing wrong with this guy but that he was holding me hand like a girl and speaks even better than a girl.
I'm not against these people, there is always bad and good. Like all straight people are not good or bad. Also gay people got the good and bad among them. If these guys want to live their own live, let it be .. I don't think that I would like to be part of that but it is up to them.
really 1 sick sex maniac and talking it with a female u are enjoying it alot.WHAT R U REALLY UPTO :)
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Please Hussanmf, find me this evidence you speak of. Yes children grow up to imitate their parents relationship, but not sexually! I have no idea what my parents do in bed, for all I know they are into S&M. Homosexual parents don't have sex in front of their kids! As for being prone to experimentation, I'm sure they are, you don't have to be raised by homosexuals to be experimental. I wasn't, and I have been. It's a natural part of growing up.
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you should answer and you can not ignore it. We are not here to ignore things right. So tell me, in west is sex allowed in public. If not, why not.
No, sex is not allowed in public in the West.
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i m sorry to disaapoint you, but there is ample proof from sychology to conclusively say that ALL YOUNG CHILDREN GROW UP IMMITATING THE FORM OF RELATIONSHIP THIER CARE TAKERS FOLLOW....
if homosexuality is norm as they grow up, it is safe to say that they will at least be less hesitatnt to try it and/or get sychologically hoocked and or attached to it...
there is also ample prroof to suggest homosexuality( for males) bieng a product of engaging in anal sex as younger children or adolecents...
in a very real sense, those who experiences bieng penetrated as younger individuals ( for whatever reason ) experience very SERIOUS needs to keep getting penetrated..
thats the reason why many very MANLY males are gays bec they were raped as children...
So a big FAT NO...
Homosexuality is certainly NOT ONLY a function of getting attracted to one gender as opposed to the other ( although this is certainly a part of it )
there are way too many forces at play, one of which is if u r brough up in a gay tolerant/incouraging attitude...
another one is availability...like in prison ( or in the gulf ), where acess to the opposite sex is limited or non existent...
and many other factors...
My point again in very plain english..
Accepting people for what they are is one thing...
encouraging attitudes that are not right is another...
i agree to the earlier bec it cant be helped...and i will not hate or dehumanise anyone for any reason...
i disagree with the later bec it can be helped....and thats why i oppose gay couples adopting..
its just my openion...
i m sure u r not suggesting that an openion that doesnt conform with urs is rediclious..!!!
i guess it was just a slip of the tounge:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Are you psycho. watch what you are and where u are. leave the others on their own they are not begging u for anything or asking u for shelter.You Dont like it simple ignore it you knuckle head dunce nutz.
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i am saying about Sex, whether it is allowed in public?
No. Kissing and holding hands is allowed in the west, whether hetro or homo.
Genesis, typical gay couples are monogamous as well. Yes, they do enjoy their parties while they are single and some of them are in open relationships, but by no means all of them. My friend and his boyfriend do not cheat on each other.
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is sex allowed in the west in public whether it is hetro or homo?
We’ve all heard of the local wife acceptance unwillingly to their husbands ‘fun’ trips with their friends to Cairo, Beirut, or Bangkok. In fact some of those trips are even with gay motives.
This is another story that needs a thread on its own.
I was referring to ordinary couples not twisted & dysfunctional ;)
Here's my 2 cents;
I have never met anyone, ever, who changed his/her mind about the morality/theology/nature of homosexuality...not once.
The best I've ever seen is people agreeing to disagree. If anyone's mind got changed due to this discussion, I'd be so shocked I'd have a stroke.
I'm not criticizing...I'm Switzerland in this debate. I'm just bringing to attention that no matter how many sides are presented, not one mind will be changed.
The best we can hope for is for someone to acknowledge another's point of view, if not agree with it. My bet is that not one mind will be changed, but I've been wrong before...
Good luck, eh...?
Don't be ridiculous Hussnamf, being raised by a gay couple doesn't make you gay. People can't decide who they are sexually attracted too. There is absolutely NO scientific evidence to support that. I know several kids raised by gay parents and they aren't gay.
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Gypsy...
There is a differnce between accepting people the way they are, and between raising them 2 be something ...
for example, a man might love a wife who is a nurotic mess, and accept her and love her to pieces..
now if he were to bring a child into life, do u think it is wise to raise her to be a nurotic mess?
in my mind, its the same idea...
Bieng gay for some people ( hormonally imbalanced at birth ), is not a choice...
Raising up a son/daughter to be gay is a choice( of the parents not the child )....
and bringing up children in a gay " familly " does just that....bec a child grows up wanting 2 immitate the form of relationship he / she whitnessed theor care takers practice, and thats a given fact of sychology that no one argues with...
thats why i oppose allowing gay couples 2 adopt ...
i dont remeber using the quran to argue with at all, but u always kept bringing it up:)
any ways...
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Don’t be ridicules! There is no cure for homosexuality, because it’s simply not a disease
I know lots of normal couples that do that. Hell in the middle east fidelity is a dirty word, especially among the Khaleejis.
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I’m not against homosexuals. In fact I believe that due to their liberal thinking, Arab gays have an impact on culture & literature.
I was just stating why, in my opinion, the gay marriages never works.
Yet another example, one of the top gay destinations is Greece. Although it is known that Greeks are less tolerant to homosexuals than the rest of the Mediterranean. Gay men simply favors it to famous gay spots like Torremolinos in Spain just because they can mingle with sexually confused locals on after dark parks & local hamams.
Obviously you don’t go into details with your gay couple friends, or you should have known that the only reason they are going on is because they see other people if not in dating in other ways like flings on saunas or online.
DO you believe that normal couples do the same?
what you think. You may think for your own benefits also.
I'm not making up the words on my own Saud. Read a dictionary.
And what gay values are you referring to Hussnamf? The idea of letting everyone live their own life, accepting people for who they are, not who they sleep with? Making a statement to society, that yes, I love this person and I'm going to marry them. What awful values!
Hussanmf, as long as people keep throwing the holy books at me as some kind of proof (which they aren't) all keep throwing them back. Simple as that.
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Guess what if i were like you
i would be digging out the old threads and then argued with gypsy on that alot "She had a topic once about Taliban" she didnot like them she saw she heard she felt that was her own way of thinking what she observed.or i could come out here swearing at her blah blah u donot anything bullshit that is. her rights she can say anything. So whats wrong with you than Saud.Simple thing accept the reality nicely :) and have a positive sense always. :)
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i never argued that u DIDNT READ gypsy...
i m merely suggesting that u were reading with a not so open mind..
u were reading 2 find in the books reasons to say they are nonesense, rather than reading 2 find out what they say ...
at least thats what i think...may be i m wrong...
at any rate, homosexuality is indeed a " natural " phnomenon...
it occurs in nature as well as in the human society...always has and always will
Homosexuals certainly have the right to live and love and are in no way less of human biengs for bieng what they are...
but in my humble openion, they shouldnt be GRANTED the right to marry and adopt...
like i said bef , what happens behind closed doors between consenting adults is only thier buisness...
God only know that hetrosexuals are also involved in shamfull practices behind closed doors...
thats not the point...
the point is that same sex marriages ( legally ) and adoption ( legally ) in my openion pauses an increadible threat on humanity and is a serious alteration to familly norms ...
No one can argue that children derive their basic ideas about society from their parents , and should gay couples be allowed to adopt, this can only reinforce gay values that are not in any way attributed to hermonal imbalances, but are societal practices ...
which brings us back to the story of Lot and his people, and we all know how that ended!!!
Finally gypsy, if u dont believe in God and the holly books, may be u should refrain from making citations and refrences to them ...
its hard for me to imagine someone who doesnt believe in something yet uses it as an integral part of their reasoning...
wouldnt u agree?
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
you can not make up words by your own.
If you do not like me and do not like my existence, you are free to do so. I did not ask you to come and have your great words in this forum or force you to read what i have typed ;)
You can enjoy other forums or feel free to stay here. Your comments are doing great job and they are full of knowledge. You are grown :) i am proud of you
Well here's the thing Saud, I don't think it's a bad practice and I don't think it's a crime. I support them in their life because I know it makes them happy and they aren't hurting anyone. I love them, I love the partners they choose.
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if you are their good friends you should help them in starting good life and i am sure they will love this life too. We may have our beloved ones involved in crime and we do not want them to be hurt so in this case we can help them out of that crime not just support them. Allah will help them in getting rid of this bad practice. I pray for every gay and lesbians to get rid of this bad practice. They are human beings we should help them out not to leave them.
"Straight" is simply a slang term used in the West to describe someone who is heterosexual. I don't think gays and lesbians are perverted at all. I think it's perfectly natural.
If you are going to get into a silly little argument about slang terms then remember that gay actually means happy or cheerful. :)
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If a person is dunce illiterate arrogant with not a single knowledge about life not wise minded never positive in life. :) Will take you decades to make him understand. SO ITS USELESS.
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gays and lesbians are perverted if they are not straight. Do you support perverted people's marriage which is not straight at all. People just ashame to call such people as straight / natural.
DaRude, I'm very impassioned about this topic because two members of my family are gay, and some of my best friends are. I know how difficult it is for them, and it drives me nuts when people can't think of any other reason to dislike them other then what some 1600 year old book MAY have said. Homosexuals are as caring, loving and giving as any heterosexuals, or as messed up and screwed up as any heterosexuals, and they have every right to live their lives as we do.
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No they've adopted a child to be their kid. And no gay and lesbians aren't "straight" they are homosexuals.
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are gays and lesbians are straight?
People have every right to believe in what they want. If you choose not to like gay people, then great, don't like them, but don't try and ruin their lives by enforcing your beliefs on them. At the same respect, if you are going to come on this forum and start spouting ignorant, baseless, hate in the name of "Allah" don't expect me not to argue back.
Beleive it or not Hussnamf, I've read the Quran, and I've read the Bible and I've read the Torah and it's just the same meaningless drivel to me.
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Hands up quick
keep ur hands off the keyboard
wondering why are u excited about this topic :D :D
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they have adopted an adult gay guy to be their kid.
Just tell me, are gays and lesbians are straight? yes or no
this is the reason gypsy
" To make a long story short, Ur openion on the quran is urs, and u have a right to it, but i think u r missing out on understanding both the book and the effects of the book on people by always tryingt 2 fish for faults in it ( most of which are never niether accurate nor right any way ).."
in my openion, the reason why u " read the quran and dont like it" as u say,is bec u r interpreting it through a peep hole tainted with prejudice...something that u r so furious about when someone else like faisal or whoever else does...
yes u are entitled to ur openion, But u talk the talk and dont walk the walk from where i m standing...
u bash people for not bieng able 2 accept the things u believe in, or at least consider it, while it seems to me from where i m standing that u r doing the same thing from the opposite side of the fence...
all having been said, i didnt confiscate ur right 2 ur own openion on the Quran and Islam...
Think what u like!!and live as u deem fit:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Your intelligence surprising me alot. Well done
I have asked. The kids with two homosexual parents say they haven't missed a thing. They love their parents.
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Guys will u ever give up on this. i know u guys cant make it up on this issue :D
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go and ask them they will say, they have missed one character in their life. They will never be happy and can never be, believe me. They must have missed a real happiness. They are sorry for what has happend to them.
Just started work this morning right and spending office time in your useless nonsense. go and do some work for your boss for god sake without steeling from your employer.
you Mr. Hussam. You are good ;)
I disagree Saud, I know a couple of kids who grew up without either a mother or a father or with two mothers or two fathers. They all turned out just fine.
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Then why write that whole spiel Hussanmf? I read the Quran the way I want to, you read it yours. I don't like it, you do. We all have free will to choose our own paths in our lives. I don't need a holy book to tell me how to live my life and be a good person, others do. It's their decision.
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every child miss father and mother together. If they can become good fathers who will cover for mother. I believe that father can never give love of a mother to any one. It is universal truth. Father can not take mother's place and mother can not take father's place. They both are required characters in every one's life.
Look gypsy...
The quran tells the stories of these men...a story is an account of something that happened, not neccesarilly a suggestion...
Also, Lot was not trying 2 save a " couple of guys" , he was trying 2 save an entire village ...
Furthermore, consider what he was trying 2 save them from...its not like he was concerned they will get fat and out of shape!!!
he was concerned that the whole village will be struck by furious retribution from God ( which eventually happened )..
and u r missing out on the whole MORAL of the story :)
When i was in college, in our 1st lecture the Dean was speaking 2 us..
He told us :" never judge a historical event of times past by standards of the time u now live in"...
He was talking about history and politics, i would suggest u need to do the same about the quran and the religion...
You are entitled to ur own openion of the Quran, but with all due respect to you, no matter what ur openion is, The quran is a book that has inspired thousands of the greatest men and women who ever walked the earth to live a complete, a moral, and an exceptionally fruitfull life...
People Like Anwar Sadat, ( nobel peace prize winner), Ahmmad Zowail ( Phisics nobel prize winner ), Ahmad elbaradie ( nobel peace prize winner ) are all shiniing examples that even in this day and age
when Muslims are no where close to their best , Islam and Quran are still parts of raising great minds and great people who contribute a fair share in human development and civilisation.
In times past , It was the muslim culture ( and ONLY the muslim culture ) that has tolerated and accepted Jews and chritians and different religions and ethnicities in its ranks, and they were treated as citizens with rights and obligations...
Till today, no Jew can deny that the brightest days of the jews were under islamic rule and riegn...
Not one " VALID " claim of historical abuse against christians in Juraselem for example was ever made while juraselem was under muslim rule...
To make a long story short, Ur openion on the quran is urs, and u have a right to it, but i think u r missing out on understanding both the book and the effects of the book on people by always tryingt 2 fish for faults in it ( most of which are never niether accurate nor right any way )..
i reiterate..if u can make an effort 2 put ur prejudice against the quran and islam aside, u might even surprise urself with how easy it is 2 accept the universal truth that lies in the Quran...
Then again, u NOT DOING SO ( and i say that with all the respect in the world ), means ABSOULETLY NOTHING:)
The Quran is one of these things that are true whether u believe in them or not ( in my humble openion at least )
and the status of the Quran as God;s words to the entire human race will not in any way be undermined if u dont belive in it...
Have a gr8 day
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Gypsy why are u so much interested in this topic :S
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Wow Genesis and King Edshel, can I just recommend actually meeting some gay people before you make generlizations like that. I know quite a few commited male relationships, in fact two good friends of mine who have been together for 3 and a half years are going to get married this summer. They are also interested in adopting a child in a couple of years, and I have no doubt they will make excellent fathers.
You guys obviously don't know any homosexuals or have any real knowledge of the gay community. Get out there and visit some of these "gay villages" instead of just judging them from TV.
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because it is against these people nature and against the great law of nature. It is like playing in the spare time, nothing is real and the only reason for these guys or gals to be together is absolutely desire and lust. Any relation rather than being between a man and a woman [they do exist] is not a real relation. How can these two gays or lesbians have a family or rise their children if they got any? What would be this child feeling when he go to the school and someone to see his mother? Bring your mother tomorrow, which one of them? I got two mothers. Or bring your mother and he is bringing his father to the school, son .. we asked you to bring your mother, who is this? He is my mother? Imagine a lot of these embarrassing situations and none acceptable. If these two can live like that, I don't think that there children would ever be normal.
this matter is justified :)
Well, it might work for lesbians. However, with gay men it’s just nonsense.
Simply because gay relations are absolutely sexual, gay activists tried extensively to cover-up this fact with influence in media/pop culture to establish a solid ground for their rights.
In major cities like New York, Toronto, Paris or London where there are gay villages, dozens of gay saunas/dark rooms & cruising areas have over come the average gay bars. So, it’s obvious that gay people are not into ordinary dating.
Gay men are not really attracted to each other, There is an over obsession & a thrill in turning in straight men. NO wonder nowadays it’s the fashion in gay culture to accompany an immigrant (Turks, Kurds, Arabs, etc). And it’s a no secret that those relations won’t end up in marriage.
Finally, Gay relations are always short. Simply because both partners get bored and sleep around. Why stay with one partner, when there are dozen of strangers on the sauna next door!
Hussanmf, any religion that says it's ok to throw your daughters to a bunch of rapists in order to save a couple of guys is not my idea of a beautiful book, sorry.
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And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns)? (Al-A'raf 7:80)
"Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (Al-A'raf 7:81)
I must say that i agree with Darude on this.
The biggest risk in life, is not taking one!
Salam Aliakum
That was a good decision Removing that topic you just did.
I will ask you to remove this one too. Or they wont stop point at each other specially the religion.
Regards
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HEY gypsey...
I emplore u to reconsider ur source of quran interpratation...
Lot never had sex with his childrenaccoring to quran ...
What the quran said was the he argued with the gay men in his village to the extent that he offered his daughters just to try and put them off the homosexual sex practices:)
The Quran is really a bueatifull book gypsy...
i think if u try to read it with ur prejedous aside, u will learn a lot and enjoy a lot...
having said that, i understand ur frustration from how so many muslims today to tend to associate themselves with very narrow interpretations of the quran and very old ones indeed that need 2 be revisited and re though of...
I do firmly believe however that all the tenants and pillars of the Quran, and all the wisdom and moral code presnted in it holds firm to any day and age..
the trick is how to present the same wisdom and the ideals of times past in a modern context that serves us in the world we live today..
and just for ur info, islam is a very open religion...
For example, the prophet himself ( while alive ) legislated about people with ambigious sex ( u know those people with unidentified genetelia or not fully developed ones )
his take on it was that a person with that condition would recieve inheritance based on his/her APPARENT genetelia...
ie, those with developed penises would be treated as men and those with vagaina;s as women in matters of inheritance...
so its not like Islam even tried to shy away from adressing these issues..
its all in the attitude...
people who want to find flexible answers derived from islam will find ample precsedent to follow...
and those who want to take a hard line and see the world through a peep whole will always find reason 2 do so in any book...be it the quran , the bible, plato's republic, or the american constitution:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Hmm guess i missed alot from Saud :P u will never grow man :)
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Hell no! They are not straight. The won't even walk a straight line without pushing the boundaries of flexing their man made hips or over extending their tongues the lesbies.
So many fine man and woman to be wasted in a metaphor of despair and lies,,,,,
The day a man is able to have a baby is the end of world......
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds..
gays and lesbians are stright. Please do it if any one can.
as you know that whole nation can never be same. In each society there have been criminals, bad people, killers, rapist, theieves etc. But on one can generalise it and say that they have done it so it is right thing to do. No, it is not true and it is not logical. Bad practice will remain bad even if the whole world start practicing that practice. And good practice will always remain good even if the whole world stop doing it. We can not judge a nation by its few corrupt members.
that gays and lesbians are stright. Please do it if any one can.
Can you give me information on this. Am kinda new for this kind of knowledges ;)
Genesis, bad practice is a bad practice whoever practicing them. It is bad even if the whole world started this practice. The most important is we should not bow to this bad practice which is unhealthy for any healthy society.
Homosexuality has flourished in Arab literature
You just need to pay attention to Arab history.
- Al-ameen, the Abassid caliphate was openly gay. And during his reign the famous gay poet abu-nawus wrote his famous wine poetry.
- Songs by alasfhani, which is a an important reference to Islamic scholars in Alazhar is full of homosexual flirtations & poems
Unfortunatly Doha is full of flamboyant dudes...... Too much feathering sprawls going on in Doha lately.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds..
that gays and lesbians are stright. Please do it if any one can.
now hold it there Saud.. what imagination?! you're forgettin something here arent you?.. look around you and you'd see your so called imagination turned into reality. And for your info, lesbians / gays can possibly have biological children.. duh!
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am nobody! ...who are you? are you nobody too? then theres a pair of us! ...em.d.
Reality checks saud! If there is a statistics of homosexual behavior in our society, I’m sure we’ll have one of the highest per capita.
I might agree with you on gay marriages. However, no one can deny that there was always homosexuality in our region. and it's not a Western influence.
own imagination cyp. It has nothing to do with real life. What you guys are doing totally goes against humanity. And gypsy there is big difference between me and you are. You can not have children as i have because you are gay or lesbian. You will feel about this, you have to.
I liked Bush when he called gay marriage as free of love and perverted. Even he realised this. You all can also try and believe me it is worthy to try. You have spread the dirt in Canada and other west countries why you want to spread it here in Qatar. A person should live where the environment suits them. If you find people hates this practice why you are spoiling the people here. :)
Or to put it another way, imagine how boring the world would be if the only vehicles available were land cruisers...
and hey by the way Saud, am gay and we're neighbours :p
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am nobody! ...who are you? are you nobody too? then theres a pair of us! ...em.d.
Some people have feelings towards other people of the same sex, and contemplate whether this means that they are gay.. these feelings can be very intense and alienating to some extent. Most are just attracted to other people of the same sex are gay and go on to have sexual relationships with people of the same sex... whereas other people are attracted to both men and women and have relationships with both. But there are cases as well that some people are not attracted to anyone and wonder if this is a sign of homosexuality... now what do we call them??
Hetero - homo, it'll all boils down to one point, they're humans! you could just imagine how hard it is for them to cope up in a society with tons of judgmental people like you are... so please stop bein so pathetic and cut your crap bacause you simply cant impose them.
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am nobody! ...who are you? are you nobody too? then theres a pair of us! ...em.d.
I can have children. I can have my own or I can adopt. My parents would love and support me, and I haven't been disappointed or miserable yet. Life is more then just about sex, I have a great job, wonderful family, I travel, and someday I'll have someone who loves me. I'll have all the things you have Saud.
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which full of disappointment and misery. Where there is no respect, love and respect of relationship. There are other great values of this life other than sex or being an animal. Darude is laughing on donkey and dog but this practice will make him worst than donkey or dog. Doneky and dog will be laughing on him but he will not be feeling it.
It is short pleasure. You are scrificing great life for sick relationship. How you will face your parents and your children. Oh sorry you can not have children because you are homos.
See this is another reason I like gay people. They would never post such a pile of drivel and self righteous nonesense. Live and let live Saud.
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Am Off now let me find some lesbians Specially The Goth Ones how they act when they are angry like a whild tigress lol :P
see you guys
ciao.
have fun
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than a writer's imagination, if gays followed his imagination then they are really perverted.
You are believing him and saying that Quran is fariytale. There is no book equal to Quran and Quran is a model of truth. I dont blame you or Darude or any one who are using such words agains Quran because you have not even read it. Quran is more than a friend.
I think i should stop and quit. How can i convince someone who is already in a dirt. If you are happy with being a gay, so let it be, but do not forget my words. If gayism crossed its limit then Allah will clean this earth by himself. Then this debate wont be useful. Quran says about such people, let them play until they see the day they were promised.
What i pray for is that Allah show the right path to every body who does not know about this bad practice. But i bet that gypsy and darude they know how bad this is.
I quit this debate because i cant bear insult of my Allah, his prophet and Allah's book Quran. They are not worth to be insulted. They all wanted good for all of us. Now it is human being, who makes his/her own destiny.
Allah is witness that i have conveyed HIS message to the persons who read my words and were not aware of what Allah's wants.
Allah protect you all and tell you all please quit qayism and save yourself
My team gets left alone there and gay guys are awesome to hang out with. :D
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Show me the Lesbian bar damn still i wont be allowed to enter :D
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Gay bars are great for the shows but that's it. My team doesn't get to play there.
Really one Bandiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
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Gay bars are the only ones where I can cut the line up for the girls bathroom by going in the mens! Those guys don't care and usually I've made a new friend by the time I'm done. :D
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hahaha lol right they wont tease females or chasing them will stay in limit than what about the females lol who like to be admired and explored LOL. :D
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I think gay guys are great...that means 2 fewer guys chasing the girls. Less competition is a beautiful thing. The only downside is that if women have gay friends, they expect the rest us to learn how to clean, dress nicely and dance, too.
can only presume learns nothing and talk alot. Grow up Man Get A life.
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Some more Wiki for you Saud:
By 2006 the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Canada and South Africa had legalized same-sex marriage; in the United States, only Massachusetts had legalized gay marriage while the states of Vermont, Connecticut, and New Jersey allowed civil unions.[47] Maine, California, and Hawaii, as well as the District of Columbia, offer domestic partnerships.
Other countries, including the majority of European nations, have enacted laws allowing civil unions, designed to give gay couples similar rights as married couples concerning legal issues such as inheritance and immigration. Numerous Scandinavian countries have had domestic partnership laws on the books since the late 1980s.
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Among many Middle-Eastern Muslim cultures, homosexual practices were widespread and public. Persian poets, such as Attar (d. 1220), Rumi (d. 1273), Sa’di (d. 1291), Hafez (d. 1389), and Jami (d. 1492), wrote poems replete with homoerotic allusions. Recent work in queer studies suggests that while the visibility of such relationships has been much reduced, their frequency has not.[citation needed] The two most commonly documented forms were commercial sex with transgender males or males enacting transgender roles exemplified by the köçeks and the bacchás, and Sufi spiritual practices in which the practitioner crossed over from the idealized chaste form of the practice to one in which the desire is consummated.
In Persia homosexuality and homoerotic expressions were tolerated in numerous public places, from monasteries and seminaries to taverns, military camps, bathhouses, and coffee houses. In the early Safavid era (1501-1723), male houses of prostitution (amrad khane) were legally recognized and paid taxes.
A tradition of art and literature sprang up constructing Middle Eastern homosexuality. Muslim — often Sufi — poets in medieval Arab lands and in Persia wrote odes to the beautiful Christian wine boys who, they wrote, served them in the taverns and shared their beds at night. In many areas the practice survived into modern times, as documented by Richard Francis Burton, André Gide, and others.
In the Turkic-speaking areas, one manifestation of this same-sex love was the bacchá, adolescent or adolescent-seeming male entertainers and sex workers.
In other areas male love continues to surface despite efforts to keep it quiet. After the American invasion of Afghanistan, Central Asian same-sex love customs in which adult men take on adolescent lovers were widely reported.[citation needed]
Sexual relations between older and younger boys are said to be frequent in the Middle East as well as in the Maghreb.
The prevailing pattern of same-sex relationships in the temperate and sub-tropical zone stretching from Northern India to the Western Sahara is one in which the relationships were — and are — either gender-structured or age-structured or both. In recent years, egalitarian relationships modeled on the western pattern have become more frequent, though they remain rare
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if you think u are that much strong with words prove them with actions too lets say go meet some gays lesbians try to isolate them from each other if you really can. Knots when Tied strongly are not that easy to be openned.Relationship are same like that its not a joke or for fun. Guess u never had any one for real not even ur wife.
all was about gay lesbian homo what ever you brought in dogs and donkeys and son and mother. Where Exactly are you heading. Or are u trying to tell us that u really don like watching their porn movies. silly
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hurting the emotions of female and male together.
How many governments have allowed gay marriages and made it a law?
Here you go Saud. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality a nice little history of homesexuality for you.
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hahahahah pony dogs donkeys horses pigs he forgot to mention them all guess he only likes Dog and Donkey movies.Sick Mind.
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I don't believe in Allah and I don't believe in Mohammad and I think the Quran is a fariytale. Stop worrying about me Saud, I'm not your problem.
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Bit repressed sounding if you ask me. Doesn't sound like he's getting much sex from anyone, male or female! Sounds like he knows a lot about sex with animals too, hmmmmmm. :?
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I am talking to every one. I am not addressing any particular person. Well every one has to die, so i am not worried about this. I am worried for the persons who do not believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) and Allah book Quran.
Is it written in any book that "Homosexuality has been around for as long as human beings have" Can any one clarify
Right Now i Only know this he is nothing more than a Headache sick person.
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DARude, like most super religious people Saud is a hypocrit. He preaches one thing and does another. I'm sure he's only pretending to be so disgusted with homosexuals because he is afraid of his own homosexual tendencies.
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The Quran the way you think of it Saud is what keeps people like you blind to the real world. It keeps you mired in hate and repressed.
Homosexuality has been around for as long as human beings have, it's not new and it hasn't hurt us yet.
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u got problem with the ppl than there is only one place for you to quit them.That the Grave yard in Abu Hamour.Go get There for the rest of ur life.That will be much more better for you.You Just the mirrior Look behind the mirrior too u will find the Diff. :P A i said b4 if u are trying to be that much of a religious person you know well talking to An Unknow Female is Also Forbidden In Islam. Why are you Bugging Her.Talk To Me.Or Rest Of The Guys Grab Them Ask Them Talk To Them About It.
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allow your son for gay marriage?
is a light in this real world. You got blind. It is not Quran's fault :)
You can not imagine how Quran want to guide you and want you to have healthy life. But modern human wants to have fun (in their opinion) and make new ways to have fun. So gayism is their new way to have fun and change humanity
Saud the only perverted one here is you. PLease Crawl back to the 14th century and leave the rest of us alone.
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Gay marriage can never be supported. It they do, they are perverted.
Why can't gay couples marry, have children and create more happiness and love. It's only your Narrow mind that thinks they can't. Run back behind your Quran Saud and stop bothering yourself with the real world.
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enought. I can not live in a society where a son can marry his mother. Really i can not. I feel sorry for these people which are supporting this kind of marriages. They are really perverted.
I want to have a proper family consist of father, mother, brothers and sisters and children. Where girls marry guys and where children look at their mother as mothers and look at their fathers as fathers. Where they marry and have children and bring happiness and more love. I want to have my life partner a woman, a natural couple.
Gayism is nothing but a desire, like a desire of theaf to steal and desire of killer to kill, like a desire of rapist to rape. There no conxentual adult sex but corruption and harrasment of humanity and lack of shame. Very disappointing environment, free of pleasure.
i think i should get Now else u r not gona Quit. Saud whats ur problem u dont agree with Gay love and marriage right.fine thats what u think and what u like. now is every one suppose be with same as ur thoughts no right. or all i can conclude from the beginning of ur post u wana impose ur thougths on other and their ways of life. NA YOU CANT DO SO QUIT IT PAL.DO U HAVE ANY VALID SOLID REASON FOR HATING gays or lesbians ok thats what u think not me i dont have problem with that let them live their life i am not being bugged by their relation what they do what they dont do its all up to them.or are they askin u for a fav to make our movie or talk to us or take a snap. guess not THAN WHATS UR PROBLEM. u getting religion in that. how much do u know aaann still young enough to practice every thing life is there and u will exper everything. RIP
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Last time I checked Saud, no incestous mother/son pairs were asking to marry, defintely not enough of them to justify even looking at the matter. However there are many many homosexual couples and they are asking. I don't see how they are hurting anyone, so why not let them marry.
You are the ones with no answers Saud, and no point.
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you do not have answers. You can nover. Because there are no such marriages.
hay whats with you both. go find other better topic than this :S
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Then I hope they use condemns cause those would be messed up kids. But hey, in your little religious book Lot has sex with his daughters and they have kids and thats perfectly acceptable. So there you go.
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someone find his mother attracted to him and he is attracted to her.
I don't know how many times you've had sex with animals Saud, you seem to know more about it then I do. I would assume that the animal would fight back. However consent has to do with mental capacity as well, a donkey or a dog doesn't have the mental capacity to consent, neither does a child. Your argument doesn't hold water.
YOu love your wife and you have sex with your wife. You do so because you are also sexually attracted to her. Gay men or women love their partners and are sexually attracted to them, no different then you and your wife.
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am off this topic he is calling me Dear his intentions are not good :P
Am noooooooooooott interested in this GAY TOPIC ANY MORE :D
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The topic is based on love which turned two men into gay and two girls into lesbians. They want their right in this society. What if some one say i love my dog or my donkey and i want right in the society to have sex with them too. Or some one may say i love my son very much and i want to have sex with him. I do not know what shall i call them.
now dogs are also included in this topic.which animal is next :D
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as donkey does not kick any one, means donkey is consent. Plus he loves donkey very much and donkey do same. So no problem at all. Love hun. Isnt it. Or take a dog as an example. Dog is more consent than donkey in this regard.
was about gay.Saud look interested in this topic only. now where the hell this donkay came from :S and having sex with donkey dont tell me u are from YEmen :P
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love my wife and my children. I cant have sex with my children just because i love them
Nope cause a donkey can't consent. You show me a donkey that says "yes please sir, have sex with me" and I will say that donkey has consented to sex.
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You are very smart, arent ya ;)
someone loves his donkey. He should have sex, which is love in your opinion, with donkey. Donkey has no problem with this sex. Can you call this consentual relationship.
So you don't love your wife Saud?
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Toady 1st working day of the week. Are you working ? No. Stealing company paid time to surf internet HA
can express of love. Homosexual sex can never be love. Gypsy i can not agree with you that they do have sex just because they love each other.
Love is pure feeling and has nothing to do with sex, like a mother loves her son or daughter, a pure love free of desire. A love between a man and his GOD pure love. Movies had very bad impression on the society, like you should have sex with whom you love or you should kiss. This is sad and does not clarify your position Gypsy.
can express of love. Homosexual sex can never be love. Gypsy i can not agree with you that they do have sex just because they love each other.
Love is pure feeling and has nothing to do with sex, like a mother loves her son or daughter, a pure love free of desire. A love between a man and his GOD pure love. Movies had very bad impression on the society, like you should have sex with whom you love or you should kiss. This is sad and does not clarify your position Gypsy.
Sorry Hussanmf, I didn't mean to say that you said anything bad about homosexuals, you haven't.
Actually it appears we have the same view of the story of Lut or Lot, in both cases the society weas practicing abnormal deviency, which I take (and you have suggested you take) to mean rape and pedophilia, etc. Not a caring and consentual relationship between two adults.
This is simply my point about that story, that it gives and example the horrors of rape and exteme lust, NOT caring adult relationships.
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I dont believe i have have uttered one hatefull word against any one...
if i did, please point it out for me...
As far as God;s fairness is concerened, well , i believe he is fair in all matters...
truth is , no one but God himself decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell...
i cant and wont put myself in the shoes of the allmighty and judge human biengs and condemn them to heaven or hell..
i m far too pathetic and small in the bigger scheme of things ( in comparisson to God) to ever even so much as think of doing that..
What i posted earlier was just to correct ur interprataion of the Quran versus regarding Lut and his people...
and mind u , the people of Lut didnt practice homosexuality out of love...it was social norm...
it is said that they also sodomised young boyz...and that they used to "choose" their boyz and then shoot small rocks at their heads, knock them unconcious and then rape them....
doesnt sound 2 loving 2 me!
i agree that things are way to discreet to the extent of hypocracy in our culture..i totally agree with u in that respect...
it is silly to hear ppl claim that no homosexuality ocurs in our culture and that AIDS doesnt exist and a whole list of other absurd claims....
i also agree that the west 's attitude of " in ur face " is equally as absurd on the other side of the continum if u will ( dont mind the spelling:)
cheers
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
god's message is about love and respect so anyone who uses either of the books to spread hatred and intolerance does not understand the real point of religion (regardless of what they are quoting).
i don't think a fair God would condemn people to hell based on geography either, but that's what many of the die hards seem to believe since worshipping Mohamed (or Jesus or whoever) boils down to where you were born.
it's all nuts.
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"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I
Should i agree with u bandit na i think i shouldnot coz if i would say i agree u will stop it here. na na carry on let me watch and read more :P
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Hussamf, I don't see how gay marriage is corrupting society or doing any harm at all.
I do understand your point about not boasting about things, but I don't see the point in hiding things either. In the West we are too boastful about things and we push things too much in peoples faces, but here in the East you hide it too much and turn into hypocrits.
There's a happy medium somewhere between the two cultures.
However, I will never sit and listen to hatred and bigotry spoken about homosexuals, because the homosexuals I've met are some of the best, if not the best, people I've met. Adversity always brings out the best in people, and I don't think any fair God would ever send these people to Sauds hell because of whom they love. I think the most important thing is that they love.
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yah dude,
whatever u say
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
if u have strong faith in ur heart thats enough.self confidence self abilities belives.still u think they are fishing.Never think of the next fellow a weak minded.he/she may know alot but pretend that they dont know anything.
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alexa: thanx hun, i have all the blood i need...looks like u r the one fishing for prays
darude: i dont believe i in any way suggested anyone change their way of life, or that i will change mine!
as a matter of fact let me quote myself to refresh ur memory
"I care not what happens behind closed doors...
i cant and wont impose my moral values on consenting adults..."
mmmmmmmm
later
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
whats with every one hahaha its really funny as if Saud u are a saint and Hussam u are the one will hell of a knowledge forget it man. live ur way ur life and let others live their ways.
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Homosexuals are just people with different sexual orinatation, that is true...
Legalising gay marriages is a horrible mistake however that entire human race will pay for sooner or later in my openion...
shaking the very foundation of society by legalising such marriages already started having catastrophic repercutions...
I care not what happens behind closed doors...
i cant and wont impose my moral values on consenting adults...
Homosexuality is a human condition just as hetrosexuality is...
however allowing gay couples 2 adopt for example is atrocious in my openion....
its one thing that 2 consenting adults CHOOSE to be homosexuals, and a totally different thing 2 bring up a generation of children believing it is NORM..or may be even just following suit just bec thats the model of relationships they grew up around...
but thats only my humble openion....
My dear Gypsy...dont interpret the quran without reading the full text...
in the story of Lut in the Quran God exclaims FORCEFULLY...( the coming is my own loose translation, please check for more proffesional translation )
" You lust for men and leave what god created for you ( women ?????)...You are so astray from the right path..."
Also in the Quran, BECAUSE the people of Lut wouldnt abandon their ways of homsoexuality amongst men, God's retribution came swift and devistating...
Scholars have said that God ordered the Angel Gabriel to quite LITRALLY turn the village UPSIDE DOWN ...
Muslim scholars say that Gabriel litrally REMOVED the whole village and from the earth, carried it on its wing till the 7th sky ( so much so that the barking of the dogs of the village was heard by the people in the heavens) and then turned it over and let it crash towards earth ( upside down ) essentially crushing its inhabitants...
And the quran leaves no room for INTERPRATATION as to WHY THIS HAPPENED>..
It happened bec they practiced homosexuality and bragged about ( didnt discreetly do it)
Now, in my own understanding, thats no invitation 2 practice discreet homsoexuality either...
its just a simple idea
if u r indeed doing something that God has forbidden ( like homosexuality, adultery, drinking, gambeling , or whatever), DONT BOOST ABOUT IT AND DONT MAKE IT PUBLIC ...
the wisdom behind the discretion is to not " Corrupt" other members of the society who might be encouraged to immitate these " forbidden acts" bec they see them done publically...
peace out
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Finished work HA. You are steeling your boss's money by spending your paid working time to Lurk here. Steeling is Haram I think. Get lost with your preaching.
is higher in west. I did not say that rapes are not there in east. Have nice weekend. See yall on Sunday Insha-Allah :)
Saud, give up while u still have a little sanity left...LOL
I'm out of here...have fun :p
the gay marriage should not be allowed to keep the society clean from this bad habits and those who are practicing this practice should be treated as criminal. Good society is made of male and female together not male and male together or female and female together.
man where r u going rapes are worldwide not only in west. pal come up with some strong statment.
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the rate of rape cases are very high in the west. In West the literacy is 100%. Why literacy could not teach a man there to respect woman. Why woman could not save herself from being raped.
because she is white skin
because she got a wise mind
because she is educated
because she sexy lookin
because she got impressive figure
because she is more open kowledge wise
AND BECAUSE SHE IS FROM WEST :p
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Ummm.....recently in the Middle East I witnessed 2 Muslim woman completely covered, get harassed by 3 men...Oh and I've seen it happen quite a lot over the years.....there goes that theory
my brothers and sisters, you are forgetting the topic of this thread..religion will be forever be a debatable issue (no body will top on this one) and this will be endless..
I never checked whether the person i am adressing is man or woman. I am not telling here detailed information. Its basic knowledge that every one must have about his Allah and HIS prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H). It is your right and everyone's right to gain these information.
your face may not hurt others but may hurt yourself. It will let other men to look at your face and may lead to harrasment you know. That's why Islam wants for women to cover their faces. You may see and discuss the scholars about it ;) they must give you more information about this.
How else would he know about fresh blood, and bodies in the grave...LOL
Guess it hurts him(Saud) alot more than others.Saud how old r u?how much knowledge to u really have about islam. Saud than u know that Talking to unknown woman in Islam is not allowed prohibited.Why are you getting engaged with a female here than? Grow up Pal.
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So by drinking and eating pork, not covering our faces is hurting others, how exactly?
You do not know how important it is for people to know about Islam. I am not imposing myself on others and i do not need to. And what you think what is the way to tell others about it.
Dear Gypsy, no law let you do what ever you like to do and all bad things you do is hurting someone, you may not feel it.
take a day out than go to Abu Hamour grave yard sure some one will be getting buried have a look and hold ur heart be brave there :P
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Nah, I want to see the fresh blood that Saud was talking about...LOL
You wana dig graves. oh lady don tell me u are planning to murder some one and trying to practice from now :P
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Saud u still haven't said if I can go grave digging with u....oh please!!...will be the most entertainment that I've had in ages.
its really looks like you are trying to impose ur self on others or trying to impose Islam on others
Pal that really is not a way and you know that too. SO BETTER QUIT THE CRAP HERE.
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Sorry I don't think covering myself, not drinking, having premarital sex or eating pork as fun. Really my religion (the religion of Gypsy) is by far the best and easiest religion out there. Simple rule: Do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone.
Your religion is your religion Saud, nobody cares or wants to hear about it.
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do you need it.
Look Islam is the only religion which is comprehensive. A religion which is so easy to understand and implement in our lives. Just try it in your lives and you will find purity, clean, straight and full of fun ;)
Enough is enough. stop your preaching. we don't need it here. OK
they find my comments offensive and disrepectful. Did i blame them because they followed other religion or did my words insult their feelings. No it did not. Why not every one not believe in Allah. You know why, because they do not know about Allah. They could not get information about Allah and HIS prophets. This is every body's right to know about their GOD. Original GOD which is Allah. You see, such a managed universe can be managed by itself right. There is one power who created this universe and HE is controlling them. If you read science you will find it out. What scientists found today about how this universe came in to existence, this has been revealed by Allah in HIS book Quran 1428 years back.
Dear Scorpio, Allah have never asked anybody to-date to kill his or her family but HE instructed to behave good with family members and respect father and mother, brothers and sisters, neighbours, next seat fellows infact HE instructed to behave good to every body in the world ;) Allah is very nice GOD and i love HIM alot. I wish i could do every thing HE asked me to do. You know i do not support gay marriage because this makes him angry. Allah has created a girl to fulfil his sex desire not a man. Just remember this. I hope i have answered all the questions :D
Body's in the grave look like they do now eh? Boy I can't see why I don't follow your way of thinking Saud, being delusional sounds fun too. :P
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Saud you need to realise not everyone believes in Allah and heaven and hell...people have their chosen religion not necessarily yours, and could easily find your comments offensive and disrespectful.
The earth is getting warmer because of a thing called global warming. You should read up on it you might learn something.
So I'm assuming you have dug up graves, opened the box...next time you go on another adventure can I come? Sounds like fun. I want to see the fresh blood!
Maybe you should start making decisions for yourself and start developing your own opinions about life.
Oh you didn’t answer my question, if Allah told you to kill your family would you do it?
sorry and disappointing that i could not convince you guys about what Allah wants from human beings. But i am telling yall that Allah loves you and loves you more than your relatives, monther and father. HE wants us to survive and get heaven, Really. Look for better person to tell you about all this. It is true and hell is not fake. Hell is not place of having fun, believe me.
Just think little bit, why you exist and why sun is rising and setting every day, why it is getting hotter and hotter every day, why earth is getting bitter to worst every day.
Why we exist and why we are dying. Why most of the dead bodies in the grave are still looks like they are killed just now, their blood is fresh.
There are alot to think and the answer is only that Allah is the one WHO is managing this universe and HE will destroy this earth one day and Judgement Day will take over. All creatures will get alive again and every one has to answer for their deeds and will be responsible for their own deeds only.
This life is very short and no one knows how long he/she will survive. So we better make our other life which is permenant and you will never die there.
No way I want to go to heaven. It will be toooo boring for me without a single friend of mine. I want to go to Hell. That's where all my friends live or planning to live/forced to live. :)
I'll be there! I've already booked a room next to all the good rock stars. :P
Seriously though if getting into heaven requires you to hate people and be a bigot, I'll be quite content in Hell. :D
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hell sounds like much more fun, all of the interesting people will be there!
you don't even know how good you have it
that i am going to heaven and i can never say this if i am said that then i am wrong nor i said you are or any one going to hell. This is Allah who will decide who has to go to heaven and hell.
But Allah has set out rules, complying with, will let the practicer go to heaven and opposing with them will let the practicer go to hell.
Saud if people like you go to heaven, then I can't wait to go to hell.
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I will try until my last breath to convince all human being that homosexuality is not accepted to Allah, is not in favour of their health, not in favour of their society and not in favour of their family. I will try my best to help them to escape the Hell. It is easy to say that they will be burning in the hell but that hell is 70 times hotter than our earth's fire. So you can imagine how worst it can be.
Spare us the wahabi brain washing blah you’ve been taught to memorize on Qatar public schools ;)
As the gay couples don't actually hurt you in anyway, and don't impinge on your freedom or beliefs (and don't wish to), maybe you should just live and let live as other people have said. If everything that people say about Islam is true, then gay people are going to rot in hell and you won't have to share paradise with them.
you don't even know how good you have it
Whatever being said and argued here still it's not accepted practice....
I just read that BP Chief executive has to resign because of his gay-ness attitude thereby losing around 20 million dollars benefits.
I am late due to terrible time in the office.
The time is very less and lot of work to be done so please read it with care.
Allah is only God and there is no other god except HIM. HE send his beloved creature human being to the earth to see whether they (we) follow HIS instructions or not. When they started following their own thoughts and started doing whatever they liked to do then Allah sent his messangers to them to convince them to do what Allah wants them to do. Majority used to oppose and insisted on what they were practicing and there were occasions where Allah punished them on earth by different ways. One sample is there in Egypt, which is called as mummy in English.
Now one nation which is Looth's nation, as all you know about them, were practicing what majority of us are doing now a days (Homosex). Our Allah stating in HIS book Quran that no nation practiced or was practicing this practice. Allah also punished this nation like other nations. but as stated earlier, Allah punished this nation (5) ways while other nations were punished only one (1) way.
Quran is not a fictional book whether any one believe this or not, can not hurt Quran or anyone but he is hurting himself.
Allah is only one God and there is no other god except HIM is a universal truth whether the whole 6 billion population believe this or not, it is not going to hurt Allah or any one but they will be hurting themselves only.
Mohammed (P.B.U.H) is HIS last messanger there were no and will never be other messengers after him, whether anyone believe this or not, it is not going to hurt any one but he is hurting himself.
Since there will be no other messanger after Mohammed (P.B.U.H), Allah handover this responsibility to Muslims. All non-muslims may not know the truth so we muslims covey Allah's and HIS prophet Mohammed's (P.B.U.H) message to everybody. We do not hate any body and Allah do not hate human beings. But it is human being's deeds which is hated by Allah and then Allah punish that human being.
Allah gave example of Lut's nation to us to avoid this terrible practice to avoid HIS anger and punishment. If any one practice this practice he/she is not hurting anyone but hurting him/herself only. My job was to covey to everyone what Allah wants, you do it or you dont do, you are the only one going to bear the consequences :(
I am not and will not be supporting gay marriages or homsexuality even if 7 billion of population support this kind of marriage which is totaly immoral :|
Take care you guys and remember my words.
LOL good one azilana, as for the rest...it's too long too read! All I know is that ur arguing about homosexuals...guys get a life..and leave theirs alone :)
And I know it by heart, it states clearly that those who performed these terrible actions were punished and only the beleivers and "NORMAL PEOPLE" who don't have sex with the same gender survived this torturing.
By the way, the punishemnt of Lut people, was never revealed to anyone before. You know why? due to the terrible actions they used to do.
I agree with those who says that homsexuals are humans and needs to be left alone doing what they want as long as they don't hurt others, but I also believe that they are sick needs spiritual and physical care and guidance.
cheers
just what is needed!
I'm with you on the White-Middle-Aged-Male-Religious-Right Gypsy.. These men through their rich media baron mates (also part of the WMAMRR club) have way too much influence over what people watch.. It has also been widely reported that the Fox News Network was instrumental in George Dubya Bush being elected the first time. But that is a different story.
you don't even know how good you have it
Four high school friends, who hadn't seen each other in 30 years, reunited at a party.
After several drinks, one of the men had to use the rest room. Those who remained talked about their kids.
The first guy said, "My son is my pride and joy. He started working at a successful company at the bottom of the barrel.
He studied Economics and Business Administration and soon began to climb the corporate ladder and now he's the president of the company. He became so rich that he gave his best friend a top of the line Mercedes for his birthday."
The second guy said, "Darn, that's terrific! My son is also my pride and joy.
He started working for a big airline, then went to flight school to become a pilot. Eventually he became a partner in the company, where he owns the majority of its assets. He's so rich that he gave his best friend a brand new jet for his birthday."
The third man said: "Well, that's universities and became an engineer.Then he started his own construction company and is now a
multi-millionaire. He also gave away something very nice and expensive to his best friend for his birthday: A 30,000 square foot mansion."
The three friends congratulated each other just as the fourth returned whats the congratulations for?"
One of the three said: "We were talking about the pride we feel for the successes of our sons. ...What about your son?"
The fourth man replied: "My son is gay and makes a living dancing as a stripper at a nightclub."
The three friends said: "What a shame...what a disappointment."
The fourth man replied: "No, I'm not ashamed. He's my son and I love him. And he hasn't done too bad either. His birthday was two weeks ago, and
He received a beautiful 30,000 square foot mansion, a brand new jet and a top of the line Mercedes from his three boyfriends".
Hey, it's just a joke...lol
First of all, it hasn't been "decades" it's been a decade, if that. Secondly I never said there weren't homophobes in the West? There are, especially among the religious zealots in the Bible belt which is where many of these assaults occur. Also the US isn't very liberal towards homosexuals and never has been, it's the rest of the West that is more tolerant.
Thirdly, there are lots of assaults against homosexuals here, but unless you know some or are part of a social group with some who are open about it, you'll never here about it...kind of like a lot of the assualts against women here. I know a guy who's in hospital now for being beaten up outside the Dairy Queen, by cops no less.
Fourthly: Will in Will & Grace is a lawyer, his boyfriend is a cop. There are several other shows with gay people in more professional positions, they just aren't really found on TV here. As for Queer Eye, that's right up there with So you want to Marry a Millionaire, I don't comment on that trash cause I don't watch it. Nor would I ever assume it represented the majority of the people in the West, whether gay or straight.
I also believe that shows like that, and rap videos and "black" tv shows are created by the middle aged religious conservative white men that run the US as a ploy to continue segregation.
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You’ve succeeded in showing how homophobic we are. However, the things that I can’t seem to understand how come after decades of liberation & gay-rights the west are yet homophobic. I see neither Qataris nor Arabs holding signs “GOD hates FAGS”, not to mention we rarely ever hear of cases of hostility, vandalizing or assaults.
Shows like “Well & grace” and “Queer eye for the straight guy” has played a role in stereotyping gay people. How come the liberated media never shed light on gay surgeons, Engineers or economists? And insist on showing the makeup artist, the interior designer & the fashion expert?
The agenda is obvious. Segregate them, display them as ‘different’. If that’s not homophobia, then what is?
just wanna share my signature..
I don't see any problem at all. I agree too with Gypsy. Those who abhor those people with different sexual orientation or fondly called the "third sex" MIGHT have some issues with their sexuality themselves. OR they might be brought up by their elders differently.
I rest my case...
these people we're talking about here have one thing in common...not one of them chose to be a gay...each one have their own unique struggles in life...they all experience the challenges of self acceptance...coming out...and the hardest part of it is dealing with a society that doesn't always make life easy for them...
That being said, I see no problem what so ever with gay marriage. They are people too, with the same capable emotions as anyone else. They can and do love just as deeply and passionately as heterosexuals do. Therefore, I think that they should be able to sanctify their love for one another through the bonds of matrimony just as anyone else.
we can't judge someone just because he/she have other interests.... it's not in our hands to judge them...period...
"Homos are being hated by Allah. I hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves."
Are you Muhammed Saud? No! SO who the hell are you to say who God loves or doesn't love? Your nobody! You have no right to judge anyone, and especially no right to pretend you know what God thinks.
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As far as I can tell, there aren't too many religions which actually give anyone the right to punish anybody. If anything is a sin, it's up to God to decide the punishment. It is the height of ego for any human to assume the roll of God as judge for any sins.
If anybody is sinning, it's up to God to decide, not people.
I agree with that. Just let them be .
I have gay friends and have just been invited to witness their marriage/wedding/legal union whatever you want to call it. I am proud to say that I am happy to do that. They have always been there for me. They took care of me when we were on holidays and when I was ill at one point. They are sort of like big brothers I never had, and they have never asked me for anything in return. They both have so much love to give and did a lot of voluntary /charity work at their own expense. Why should I care if they are both men?
If the religous arguments are correct then the sinners will be punished in the after life.
That is as maybe, but why should someone be outraged here on earth for something they believe the sinner will be punished for by God?
I have no feeling either way about homosexuality and I have friends who are openly gay, big deal.
As long as they don't try and ram it down my throat I don't care.
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today.
Gypsy I totally support your arguments about homosexuality, but I don’t approve attacking other people religions and beliefs. I may believe that the bible is distorted and fiction also, but I will not go and through it in the face of Christians...I will keep it to myself. I am a practicing Muslim, but I am very open minded too, and most of the time my Muslim devout colleagues use religion to shut me up, and though my answers to their arguments are usually provocative, I don't go as far as you did, cause there are limits everyone have to respect.
Now regarding the topic, it is very difficult and intriguing one, however what we know for sure is that NO ONE CHOOSE TO BE HOMOSEXUAL, people are simply born that way, it will not go away by praying, crying, abstaining, treatment...etc.
People...just live and let live
Had very nice chat to all of you. Working hours finished. See yall tomorrow ;)
We are human being and i respect all whether they are believers or they are not. You do not know how Allah loves you. Allah loves you more than 70 mothers. Allah always see your path, waiting when you will turn and go back to him. if you say one time "Ya Allah" Allah replies 70 times "Labbek ya Abdee", i do not know the translation of this three words you can ask your friends who know arabic and can translate for you. Dont you think it is worth to die for such great Allah.
Homos are being hated by Allah. I hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves.
Who here was around 1600 years ago when the Qur'an was delivered by Allah to his prophet? Or the bible delivered by god? How do we know that these events actually happened apart from blind faith?
Unless we have concrete evidence that these events took place no-one can say that the Qur'an is more than a work of fiction with any certainty.
The Qur'an itself is not proof of this, just as any of us would have trouble believing a person who arrived tomorrow carrying a book that claimed he/she was the almighty and powerful creator, we can't all just take the Qur'an's word for it.
it's good to talk about religion and morality in a lighter way.but when it comes to debate,who's right or wrong,very few concedes.
My point being, why is it up to us to decide what is right and wrong against nature? What might seem right to you may in someone else's opinion be wrong. I find it disturbing, but I don't judge people who decide to cover their faces. In fact it's none of my business, and I respect them for their choices. Just like you should do with homosexuals. Have a little more respect!
Oh so if Allah told you to jump from a roof and kill your family, you would do it?
The wishes of a majority group of people are enacted by the government. This is a principle of government that was originally tried and tested long before Islam was invented 1600 years ago. As a secular, democratic society the people of Canada should not have to accept the rules laid down on them by an 'elite', powerful, lucky few.
In countries of hereditary monarchies the wishes and desires of this often small minded and inbred group restrict the individuals from achieving their own goals, wishes and desires. A similar thing in a theocracy - where a small but powerful group of clerics or priests control state policy. Why are the people of Turkey campaigning so strongly against a theocracy in their country? Because they know that it will be bad for the individual. And why would someone want to subject themselves to something bad for them?
Saud - please, tomorrow? Do you have some lottery numbers for me? I certainly accept that as a humble westerner my Qu'ran knowledge is limited, but any of the texts we read today have been altered or manipulated to suit the ever changing political climate. One doesn't get to be a Mufti, or an Archbishop, or even a Pope, by ignoring the environment. Interpretation of any dogma, and acceptance of that, is a function of how it will play to one's political masters. Otherwise you get beheaded (literally or metaphorically). As much as I'm lovin' this chat, it is close to midnight in Australia so I'm going to bed. Looking forward to a real time chat in a couple of weeks.
GJ
"Could you tell I was drunk"
Women are covering their faces because they are complying with Allah's instruction. Allah did not instruct men to cover their faces but Allah told men to keep their eyes down.
Homos are disurbing the natural system and human structure also does not supporting it.
Saud, apart from anything else, the covering of the face is insupported. Here's an extract from wikipedia that quotes the relevant ayaat:
"Islam's holy book, the Qur'an, orders Muslims to dress in a "modest" fashion. Following verses are generally interpreted as applying to all Muslim men and women.
Surah an-Nur ayah 31 states:
And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful
In the following verse, Muslim women are asked to draw their jalābib (when they go out), as a measure to distinguish themselves from others, so that they are not harassed.
Those who harass believing men and believing women unjustifiably shall bear the guilt of slander and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers to draw their cloaks over them [when they go out]. That is more proper, so that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. God is ever forgiving and merciful. If the hypocrites and those who have the ailment [of jealousy] in their hearts and the scandal mongers of Madinah do not desist, We will rouse you against them, and their days in that city will be numbered. Cursed be they; wherever found, they would be seized and put to death.
— Qur'an , 33:58-61"
It specifically tells them to cover their hair and their bosoms and to wear cloaks, it permits the displaying of whatever is apparent of their beauty, save for the specific exceptions.
I find the face covering a bit 'holier than thou', as if the women are trying to be even holier and more virtuous than Allah intended them to be, which strikes me as a bit presumptious and even vainglorious. Of course, that's the women who profess to choose to cover their faces. Others are simply oppressed into doing so.
Some of you said that Homo's disturb you and is against nature....well to me woman covering her face is against nature....it's not natural...Why don't men cover their faces?
The following text and/or variations of it, are on numerous websites, and I'm not sure of the original source (except the quotes from the Qu'ran I'm assuming are from the Qu'ran):
The Qur'an and Homosexuality: There are five references in the Qur'an which have been cited as referring to gay and lesbian behavior. Some obviously deal with effeminate men and masculine women. The two main references to homosexual behavior are:
"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81
Allah Most High says: "Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives that Allah has created for you? But you are a people who transgress" Koran (26:165-66)
027.055 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!
029.028-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."
explain why a woman covering her face in public is disturbing you and is against human nature.
I vaguely recall there's something in the Qu'ran about men shouldn't 'lie with' one another as they would with a woman. Something along those lines.
I'll look for a quote.
I vaguely recall there's something in the Qu'ran about men shouldn't 'lie with' one another as they would with a woman. Something along those lines.
I'll look for a quote.
Ok, one more point to make...lol...you guys say it's not natural and is against nature to get involved in a homo relationship, because of some book blah blah...What I see disturbing and against human nature is woman covering their faces in public, and the non existent relationships with people of the opposite sex. I'm sorry but this is abnormal behavior in any society!
But I can't join in as my knowledge is not that profound.
Go, Gypsy, Go!!!!! I'm with you all the way!!
you agree with me that Canadian government was forced to accept the gay marriage law. right :)
Dear Grantley, Quran is not word of mouth. Plus if it is 1428 years old book but gives information of tommorow and gives the information of the time which you can not even imagine. I do not blame you because you have not read and you have no information about it. Bible (Enjeel) was book came from the Sky but it is not in its original state. Christians have changed them and created versions.
But Quran is not like Bible. We keep history of every word in it and Allah by himself undertake to protect it. No one on the earth nor in this vast universe can change of word of Quran. No one in the earth nor in this vast universe can claim that a word have been changed.
Man, a club cant have rules when there are rules from higher authorities and there is no such club. They do have clubs but do not show up or if they show up government is supporting them ;)
Very good Grantley. :D
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there is a HUGE difference between a "marriage" and a "wedding". Refer my earlier point about legal status... A gay wedding isn't right because they are trying to join a club that doesn't want them. But a marriage simply legitimaises, recognizes and respects the rights that they (and all of us) are entitled to.
100% agree with you. There is NOTHING wrong with homosexuality. The problem (I reckon) is when people try to put it in a religious, rather than legal, framework. If you consider Islam, or Catholicism (or whatever), to be a form of "club", and the rules say "no", then it's not a club for you (should you be gay). The main issue is why they are denied legal status for retirement, healthcare or the other benefits that are totally taken for granted by heterosexuals. And, I love seeing the hypocritical hoo-har from the bigots, and watching them shoot themselves in he foot. I'm not an agnostic, but reckon the Bible and the Quran are 1000+ years of word of mouth. Ever heard of a game called "Chinese Whispers"?
Well Saud in this wonderful little thing called democracy, when the majority of the people want something the government gives it to them. In fact our government has defended the decision many times against minority religious fanatics, such as yourself. As for Bush, he is ignoring what the majority of the United States wants and in a democracy that is wrong.
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what you call it when people request the government to approve law for gay marriage. Canadian government was forced because people were requesting it. Why bush failed to ban gay marriages.
Qatari please delete this thread.
Qatari please delete this thread.
what you are reading so i know what are the contents
No problem Laz. I'm always here to root for the underdog. :D
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No Saud YOU have to read it accurately, instead of just reading into it what you want.
Homosexuality is NATURAL, therefore it exists in every culture, and in fact is very predominate here in the Middle East because it is generally accepted as long as you don't make a big deal of it. Most boys and girls here have their first sexual experiences with members of the same sex.
As for governments being forced to accept gay marriage, sorry the Canadian government wasn't forced to do anything, gay marriage is now law because the people of Canada WANT it to be.
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Man I don't know where you're from, or what's your background, but thank you for all your words, I barely read the comments here and I have to time to respond to people who do not accept their fellow human being, but your words are more than enough. thanks mate.
is because the girls are kept so protected and remote from interaction with boys. I do not agree with you. How come in western countries the rate of homosexuality is more than eastern countries though in west girls are not kept protected. I am wondering why their governements are so forced to accept gay marriages then. This is not because of this.
Gypsy, you got to read it accurately.
This is the best thread I've seen on QL for a long time! We all know that because girls are kept so protected and remote from interaction with boys in many arab countries that the end result is boys exploring their sexuality with other boys. Natural or not I don't have an issue with this. Perhaps if the countries in this part of the world took a more enlightened attitude to relationships between consenting people of different sexes there would be no need for boys to go around shagging each other!
Sorry to disappoint you Saud, but Allah doesn't say that. Take a read, instead of just assuming it's there. ;)
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Allah said their man was having sex with another man. That's why this nation was destroyed. So what you want more than this.
We as a human being in general and being muslims in particular, it is our duty to inform every body in this world about Allah and His prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) and His Book (Quran). We have to tell them the way which goes to Paradise and try our best to save them from hell regardles of the country. All human being have right to get paradise, in fact every body but by following Allah's rules.
Are you arguing about gay marriages?
It will never happen. Not only because it’s a religious/cultural taboo.
Because none of the gays in this region are interested in coming out. Plus, gay marriages are for self employed middle aged gay men who fed up from hanging out all day at gay bars.
Gay marriages in Qatar !...seriously?
Check the story of Lut in the Quran, check the story of Lot in the Bible, they are the same stories! Nowhere in the Quran or the Bible does it say that sex between two consenting men is wrong. Read what I posted above it is directly from the King James Bible!
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homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else.
i also support it because it's amusing seeing the all the homophobic bigots getting all hot and bothered at having to unbunch their panties.
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"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I
practicing rape. They were practicing homosexuality.
I can not find any where in Quran that it is prefectly ok to for a father to give away his daughters to be raped and then to have incesttous sex later.
Where you got this information from, so i can check it
What they were practicing is rape, doesn't say anything about consentual homosexual sex. It also says that it's perfectly ok to for a father to give away his daughters to be raped AND then to have incestous sex later. Sorry if I don't put a lot of stock in this story. :P
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of nation who were practicing it. He did this to warn us from this practice and there is no way out if every body in this world started doing this.
Human being is most beautiful creature on the earth. This doesnt suite them.
That passage is from the Bible Saud. I've been trying to find passages from the Quran dealing with homosexuality, but am turning up nothing. Hmmmm maybe God never said a damned thing about homosexuality. :P
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You are so going to get it now........
I can hear them thundering across the plains towards you now in their millions, the outraged nation of islam.
Best you go hide now, you ignorant infidel western whore!
Actually just for the record, I am a fellow agnostic and empathise with you ;-)
have derived this text from.
My dear gypsy, Quran is not fictional and it can never be. It does not matter whether you belive in this book and you do not. It is proved in all ages that no one can creat book like this because the words in Quran is not the human being's words, it is Allah's words. He challenged every body in the world, every body in all means and with all means and everything which any body think can help him, can not and can never creat book like this.
I am sorry for those who dont believe in this book, really i am because this book is not against them but tell the truth to help them.
Ahgh...that's because it doesn't...ignorance is bliss I say!
Scorpio, I'm still waiting for someone to point out where in that section it says that consenting homosexual sex is a sin. Nobody is apprantely up to the task. :(
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Your going to cop it now..lol...shame on you for being so open-minded and diverse :p
I'm very pleased that you believe it all, but as far as I'm concerened the Quran is a nice little work of fiction written by someone 1600 years ago. And what exactly am I going to get caught for? Being an agnostic? Drag me away then.
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Madame, could you please tell me in what sense you say Quran is fictional? This is Qatar and its not your western country/culture where you can just express whatever you feel! Your comments are pretty enough here to get caught! And don't take it easy as Quran is something you can use your normal way to comment and tease! Please bear in mind!
Don't comment on Quran as you are just ignorant about Quran! The way you comment is exactly offensive and you are just trying to get things worse!
Shaf
I'm too lazy to read all the posts and comment...have fun Gypsy :-)
Tell me where in this next passage it says that sex between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, is wrong.
1: And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2: And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3: And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4: But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6: And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7: And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8: Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9: And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10: But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11: And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12: And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14: And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15: And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16: And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17: And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18: And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19: Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20: Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21: And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22: Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23: The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25: And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26: But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27: And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
28: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
29: And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
30: And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31: And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33: And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34: And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our Father.
35: And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36: Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37: And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38: And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
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But your Quran is fictional too.
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Our Quran told us about a nation called as Looth's nation. This nation was practicing homosexuality and they believed in this relation as majority of our nation do now. They were destroyed because they reached to their limit and only one man and his couple of daughters were avoiding homosexuality.
Our Quran said they where punished with throwing stones from the sky, earth quake, they were turned to other creatures from human beings, they were lifted up and then thrown to the earth.
I believe it is terrible. This earth belongs to Allah he has set out rules to keep this earth clean. Homosexuality is not keeping the earth clean but it is dirt which will spoil everything whether someone liked it or hated it.
There were laws against homosexuality and still is in most countries, and people still practiced it. And homosexuality can harldy be likened to killing people (which lots of people also do, reagardless of laws). Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone.
And here in Qatar there are many many many homosexuals, more so even then in most western countries, also many many more young boys and girls experiement with homosexuality because they don't have access to the opposite sex. They do show up here, all the time, and many are pretty openly gay.
If this nation you referred to is the fictional Gromorrah, then you will have to try better then that, because there is no real evidence that Gromorrah ever existed, much more it is even debatable if God condemned them for homosexuality.
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It is not true. Majority are doing it because there is no power stopping them from doing it yet. Just imagine if there was no law against killers then i bet majority of the world population were killers.
Now, here in Qatar majority are not supporting this immoral practice that's why majority are not doing it if they are doing it they just do not show up because of the consequences.
You may believe me or may be you will not, there was a whole nation destroyed just because they turned to animals or worst and only one man and few girls could make it to survive. When there will be no one from human being opposing this practice then this whole nation will also be destroyed.
This is where I saw 2 homosexuals kissing! And they were beaten up there and taken by the police, but i had nothing to do with it!!
Anyway..Let homosexuals do what they wanna do, as long as its away from me!!
What consequences Saud? There has been no consequences. Despite this naturally occuring phenomena (which yes, if the majority are doing it, it means it's pretty damned natural) we have a world population of over 6 billion, which is far to many. So...what other consquences are there?
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It is not naturally occuring. It is against human nature whether someone accepted or rejected it. Every nation got good people and bad people but any one just cant generalize it. Also no one can call homosexuality a natural practice just becasue majority are doing it. History witnessed the consequences of this practice and no one can ignore it even if somebody pretend to do it.
By the way Gypsy i am not against hetero sexual sex and i think i do not need to see someone in this regard. Thank God I am married and have two kids which is natural ;) Thanks for the advice
Go hand out by the Dairy Queen some night Ramhino and we shall see if you change your opinion. ;)
Beastiality is nowhere nearly as common as homosexuality and there's a very different mindset, as well as consent issues. If you associate homosexuals with people who practice beastiality it's you that has the problem, not the homosexuals.
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Totally disagree with you...
It is not accepted and not only in the arab world but in a lot of western countries as well.
In some western countries it might be normal for homosexuals to make out publicly..But in the arab world, if you get caught you get punished.
Beastiality is occuring does it make it normal? NO
Anyway, we will keep on disagreeing :-D..haha
Nice talking to ya ;-)
It's pretty much accepted now, and was accepted earlier as well. People just turned and are turning a blind eye to it.
Once again, it's not against human nature, if it was it wouldn't be so naturally occuring.
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I know there has been and still there is homosexuality in the arab world, but it has never been accpeted in the arab world as u said earlier.
Yeah, celebrate your love but not when its something against human nature!!
And yes i used to kiss and hold hands with my ex-gf....but im a guy and shes a girl!! We r not 2 GUYS!! or 2 GIRLS!!
To be honest I dont mind 2 girls kissing..Its just me!! But 100% against it happening in public..Its disrespect to the majority of opinions.
hmmm fellas..no shouting (using exclamation points), clearly we are just making ourselves heard here..so lets not take it all personally..focus on the topic or I'll be sorry that I post the topic.. :)
thanks..
I know lots of history Raminho, and there's been homosexuality in the Arab world since there's been Arabs.
Why does seeing two guys make you sick? I bet you enjoy it when it's two girls.
Why keep it on the low, people should be allowed to celebrate their love for all to see. Wouldn't you want to hold your wife or girlfriends hand in public? Or kiss her?
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I give up; don't want to be associated with homophobias....your a hateful, backward breed.
I have gay friends, and no im not angry!!
And yes I had a gay couple make-out infront of me and it made me sick, it has been so open in Qatar nowadays and you can see it in some clubs...CLEARLY!!
I think this issue should be kept on the low!! Im not against it if you're not too open about it...Thats all!!
And please do not talk about arab culture whether its pre-islamic or not!! coz obviously u dont know history!!
Oookkkkk Saud, so I take it you're against hetero sexual sex as well. Obviously you have some MAJOR issues in regards to sex. Perhaps you should see someone about that.
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Homosexuality and their supportive destroying nature and it beauty. I can not believe that someone want to have sex with every one who he or she loves. Love itself is very pure feeling and is free from dirt and sex. No one can prove that sex is an expression of love. Sex is a desire someone wants to fulfill.
Homosexual marriage and its practice is exactly the same as someone wants to steal something or kill someone.
Have you ever had a gay couple "make-out" in front of you?
ummm...animals cant think,never heard that before.
Seems like someone has a lot of anger issues....maybe you should sort that out before condemning others.
There has been homosexuality since humans began. And in many cultures it was considered the norm and perfectly acceptable (Including pre Islamic Arab culture). So sorry it hasn't always been. Also in many countries today homosexuality is considered perfectly acceptable and they are allowed to marry and adopt children. So it won't always be.
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Exactly Animals!!! Do not compare humans to animals, coz we can think they cant!! It is against human nature if it sounds better!! And dont ask how is it against human nature!! It always has been and always will be!!
End of discussion
Exactly Animals!!! Do not compare humans to animals, coz we can think they cant!! It is against human nature if it sounds better!! And dont ask how is it against human nature!! It always has been and always will be!!
End of discussion
How is it against the rules of nature? Almost all animals spieces show examples of homosexuality. Especially primates.
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2 ppl in love living against the rules of nature!!!!
Get married - Not publicly
Make out - Infront of me I'll shoot you (Thats how u affect me)
U wanna be gay - KEEP IT ON THE LOW
Anyone who is offended by homosexuality is simply not secure in their own sexuality Scorpio. Frankly I think anyone willing to get married these days should be commended. :)
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I don't understand why people are so against gay marriages. How does it affect you? Are these people hurting you or your family? So what's it to you? If you don't like it ignore it and move on.
I find arranged marriages more offensive, at least with gay marriages, its two people in love. That’s the most important thing.
Um isn't the entire institution of marriage created by ourselves?
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Homosexual relationships or marriage is fake and this is created by ourselves only. This relationship is free of emotions, lack of shame and throws human being to the level which is lower than animal's level.
I agree with Alexa,
As long as the same sex couple are production members of a society I don't see any problem with it, afterall marriage is just a paper document, whether civil or in a church. I've been living with my partner for 2.5 years now and it does feel like marriage. Hehehe :P:P:P
lol!
I love it when girls talk authoritatievely about football. But hey, ManU fan of the generations past, Chelseas gonna kick Man U's sitting part. hehe.
Just wait for Drogba to spit fire!
{This is to be taken in the correct sense as that coming from a rival fan, ok. No offence meant}
Hey JoeKanuck, I'm a girl and I know the offside rule.
But then I'm a third generation Manchester United fan who kind of inherited my club from my grandfather (he used to go and support them from the terraces).
What's with your obssession with a white man and an asian guy? I know a couple of guys that are of different races and have stayed together.
As for the "basic defintion of a society" marriage is simply a commitment between two people, if you're gay you aren't going to be getting involved in a hetrosexual relationship anyway, why not allow them the same benefits of hetrosexual couples?
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I'm sure there are some benefits to same sex marriage. For instance, you wouldn't have to explain the offside rules to your spouse...
I cant see any long term benefits frm them The basic definition of a society with a Man and a woman is defeated.
Also never have I come across a white man and asian guy staying together very rare cases...
They do in Canada. A same-sex marriage is as legal as a hetrosexual marriage with the same benefits.
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