Heat rises over ill-clad expatriate women
Scantily dressed expatriate women who are seen in increasing numbers in public places especially on the week-ends are offending cultural sensitivities says a report in the local Arabic daily Arrayah.
Many Qatari women have expressed disgust and dismay at this phenomenon.
“This is a fashion statement that is in total contrast to our traditional wear. What we wear is an expression of our commitment to the cultural and religious values which we dearly cherish. It is a bizarre sight to see in the malls and hypermarkets such women mingling with those who are fully covered. They attract the attention of men. And one has noticed very often men loitering around the ladies fitting rooms in large hypermarkets waiting to see women coming out in mini shorts or skirts!” said Umm Mohamed.
“It is rather surprising that some Arab expatriate women also tend to wear such clothes. When I politely tried to argue against this with one such lady she replied that she likes such clothing especially in the summer and her husband does not object to it,” said Umm Khalid, another Qatari woman.
There have been instances when gentle persuasion did not convince such women to leave the mall, the security staff had to intervene and evict them says the report.
A salesman in the ladies’ garment section of a popular hypermarket said that displaying mini skirts and shorts and matching blouses is a must because they are very much in demand.
Sheikh Tariq al-Kubaisi, a cleric said, “such clothing is a sign of loose morals and it must be checked by the authorities. It is strange that expatriate women who respected our tradition and our values until recently have now taken to this trend,” he added.
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=508306...
Specially with those legs :0(
I would'nt wear that to the malls over here :S
Well, not necessarily indecent...still most certainly NOT something she should be wearing.
We should respect their belief. I was also before noticed by a family outside our home wearing shorts. Just outside our door talking to a Family friend who's about to go home and I saw our family neighbor going outside the building wearing close dress. They talk to my Arabic friend who was there the same day in a nice way to tell to me not to wear outside building or anywhere short shorts as I was wearing that day.
Grand BG/AP ;)
Good for that Saudi women. Very strong and brave person.
can we come back to Qatar please...
I think it does amply illustrate the point that two different people have different ideas about appropriate dress.
The Saudi lady thought that her abaya and a headscarf makes for appropriate dress.
The Saudi men think that a woman in abaya and headscarf BUT with nail polish is inappropriate.
is it a justification?
We are talking of dressing modestly or not here, not nails. And this is Qatar, not Saudi, Not Dubai!
Seriously? because she had nail polish on?
That's just ridiculous.
This is what happens when you legislate what people wear:
http://gawker.com/5913326/remarkably-brave-saudi-woman-blasts-religious-police-thug-for-ordering-her-to-cover-up-her-sexy-nails
Not long till Qatar establishes a mutaween of its own.
truth is ... ladies should be allowed to wear or not...
likewise france should let their ladies wear or not...
because nothing should be forced, rather it should be accepted as it pleases the person, the consequences are for that individual to bear so why all the fuss.
If you want to see a bit of skirt, then you're want to be in the UK right now! When the sun comes out, everything comes out!
anymore...
I think most ex pat women do try and respect the culture,it is hard to find decent clothes here as said above its all string t shirts,shorts,dresses ect..If you don't want us wearing it don't sell it..Even i have been amazed at some women's attire very short or showing a lot of cleavage out food shopping.I'm no prude but come on..They are obviously wanting to get stared at..I lived in Saudi life was easier, you covered yourself when leaving the compounds..Although didn't stop the stares and men trying to hit on you..You can't win either way!..In my own country i would wear shorts and feel comfortable,here no way..It's personal choice what anyone wears but also a comfort thing..I think they should be more specific on dress code if it's that much of a problem
Well said QS
No one is questioning what expat women wears at. Hotels , resturants or clubs, but recently women in hot pants & mini skirts very often seen in malls, grocery shops and even goverment establishments ! Of course there would be a backlash
Any one who lives here for a while , knows there won't be a lucid guideline. For dress code other than what's already written in travel guides
It's all about courtesy...
they say, when in Rome do as the Romans do.
nomad_08 : Oh you being so Islamophobic and Anti-Arab right now!
tsk tsk tsk!
And their men can go to any countries and enjoy and everything they see is normal but when they see the same thing here it's Haram. Its unfair!
Whilst clear laws and enforcement would be good, I think common sense is also important. I spent a few months living very near some Amish communities. there were no written rules communicated , but we used our noggin to understand their sensibilities and dress accordingly ...
Nomad...now you are asking for it. Your next reply will be :" But France bans he hejab" "Next we will see naked women on the streets of Qatar, like in Europe" :P
Their women can go to any countries and dress as they like but expat women cant do the same here? Its unfair!
Wait till they shift the summer clothes line to QDC and you have to get a license to buy and wear them ..:)\m/
...
...
awwww...and when i think that in the USA there r states that actually allow to be topless in public... as they go with the.. 50-50 ..of guys can walk w/o shirts..why not women too :)
Or in my country that is a bit shy when topless is a subj.. anything else .. allowed..
Damn! Me want Europe :D
P.S on the subj , Qatarisun said it right.. daylight..public.. normal clothes.. night life.. grrrrr/roaaarrr/ etc etc .. I will check Cube tnight and will write afterwards.. how do they cope with the... clothing boundaries :D :D :D
Well then. I just came back from a shopping center, mostly frequented by locals.
I went into a well known, popular clothing store.
They had beautiful dresses.
Very demure IMHO. They were not particularly tight, showed no decolletage,and are, where I come from, considered "prim and proper dresses".
Now, they were also sleeveless and ended right above the knees.
Can I wear those here? I consider them very, very demure.
lol a britexpat...
I love abayas..
regarding "appropriate".. com'on guys.. we all know what fits this term and what is obviously sticking out.. when in Carrefour I see a girl in mini (and I mean it - really MINI, next to nothing) skirt, high heels, and straps top, sometimes even with no bra under this top , long hair all around the shoulders.. it really doesn't make sense. Like, hey do you really need to wear THAT to buy silly potatos and stinky onion?
Another thing, night club, you will look ridiculous in the turtleneck top, covered up to your nose and down to your fingers and toes..
It's all about a TASTE and sense of style. One has to know where what to wear.
UKEng i think your definition is more than enough about modest dress.
Good luck buying that stuff at a store UK.
the bush. Honestly, don't you know what is proper and modest?
Actually there lies the danger, how it is interpreted. And WE know very well that when the time comes that a problem arises and need a decision, interpretation that will govern is what is in THEIR view, NOT OUR view.
We have a very popular saying in our country, "maraming namamatay sa maling akala", literally translated as "Many dies of wrong notion". Wrong interpretation or belief what is right and wrong (in this case, what is modest and what is not) may end up in a disaster!
My understanding of modest clothes in public is..:)
Cover your shoulders and cleavage
Cover your legs up to the knees
slightly loose clothing as not to show too much of your body profile or features, i.e not too tight clothes.
MM is that too hard to understand..:)
MM come on if you don't understand the world modest then we need to refer to the dictionary..:)
Standards of modesty (also called demureness or reticence) are aspects of the culture of a country or people, at a given point in time, and is a measure against which an individual in society may be judged
I don't honestly believe that anyone in Qatar is going out wearing clothes that they, the wearer, believe to actually be "inappropriate" or not "modest".
It's just that what one person thinks is okay is considered inappropriate by another.
The only way to put an end to this is to tell people how far below their knee their shorts and skirts must reach, or whether or not showing your shoulders, cleavage or elbows is okay.
Telling people to dress "modestly" is like telling people to drive "safely". It means 100 different things to 100 different people.
I agree NM. They're still just beating around the bush. What is appropriate? What's appropriate to me may not be appropriate to you.
I think the Saudis are much clearer on that, what to wear and what not to wear..:)
But they still don't explain what "appropriate" means....as this can , and obviously does, mean different things to different people.
Can't they just say for once , clearly, what kind of clothes we are to wear or not to wear????
Geez!
Just copied this for another forum. I do agree about how some dress in Malls - and it is what has maybe prompted this?
The Dubai Executive Council has issued general rules of conduct, which includes the development of standards of social ethics that citizens, residents and visitors must abide with respecting the culture, customs and religion of the Emirate of Dubai.
The regulation which Emarat Al Youm got a copy of requires whom concerned to respect the culture of the country and its people customs and traditions and to avoid all kinds of improper conduct in all parts of the emirate. The conduct has been circulated in all governmental departments and private companies in the Emirate of Dubai.
Under the Public Morals heading the policy stressed that symbols of the rulers, the State flag and national emblem, should be respected and any abuse toward them it a crime punishable by law.
The policy obligated all commuters in public areas including government offices, shopping malls, roads, restaurants, shops and others to wear appropriate clothing, as wearing inappropriate clothes, may prevent them from going to those places. Under this section trousers and skirts should be of appropriate length. The clothes should also not expose any part of the body in an inappropriate way or be transparent. They cannot also wear slogans and pictures that are considered offensive to any class of the society.
The regulation required beach-goers, and places to swim, both men and women, to wear appropriate swim suits in terms of the culture and customs of the society, and ban wearing them outside the beaches as dress code in the rest of the city require (modesty). Nudity is also prohibited in all kinds and is punishable by imprisonment and deportation by law.
The heading "attiudes between the sexes" prohibits kissing, hugging, fondling, flirting, sexual harassment, women harassment, holding hands and any acts that violate public decency. Any one committing those stuff will be considered a violator of public morals and it might be punishable by imprisonments and deportation. Only married couples can hold hand in a way that doesn't impair the public taste. Dancing and raising the music sound in a way that harms others in public places, parks, beaches and neighborhood is prohibited and is only allowed in licensed areas.
Under the substances heading the regulation emphasizes that consuming drugs and alcohol is strictly forbidden in Islam and is punishable by law. But because of the social diversity in the Emirate the consumption of alcohol is heavily regulated, pointing out that the possession of any type of psychotropic substances, and in any quantity is considered a crime and anyone caught under the influence of alcohol in non-designated spaces, even a dose of light, is exposed to a fine or imprisonment, and consumption of alcohol is restricted in designated areas.
The policy banned smoking in all means in governmental offices and shopping malls and is only allowed in designated area and anyone who who do otherwise would be held accountable.
Under this heading to it was pointed that the consuming drugs containing narcotics or psychotropic substances is banned by law, and addressed a violation punishable by law.
Under the coexistence heading the policy promised that exercising personal freedoms is available to all, but stressed the ban on insults and verbal abuse and insults, and considered all kinds of hand signals or obscene gestures or aggressive offense generally carries a fine and imprisonment, with the need to respect all of the columns in the all places, and to provide the elderly and people with special needs, pregnant women, and avoid loud conversations or laughing loudly or whistling.
It also stressed that the dissemination of news or data or the false and malicious rumors, and broadcast advertisements that disrupt public security and harm the public interest is at risk of a crime punishable by law. The policy also emphasized of the importance of caution when taking photographs, and that taking pictures of women and families deliberately and without their permission is not acceptable in the community of Dubai.
The list has a section of Islam and other religions, which required whom concerned to close the music in public places and cars near the mosque, when you hear the voice of prayer. In addition smoking, drinking and eating in public places during the day throughout the month of Ramadan is prohibited, and presents the author accountable.
The policy stressed on the prevention of any activity religious activities without the approval of the authorities.
aakhri pasta dont joke so profoundly... it can hurt... :(
but u all know or at least \should notice that the expats do tend to stare...LESS ... than the arabic guys ..in all those women u speak about y ?? That all the porn site and dating forums bans here r just doing the opposite , y ?
And that... IF u say, Cheating is a Sin ..and Adultery is even more of a Sin .... how can u have a guy marry 2 or 3,4 wives ?? :) thats a bit confusing for me cause as i know.. u usually marry some1 u like, have been with etc.. :))))
So in other words.. I rly love the irony of this place and learned soo much about couple of cultures mixed in one place.
P.S "Qatari women also buy hot sexy things but wear only for their husbands at home.." ok, i cope with that... but what about all those Qatari women or Arabic women that r steaming HOT and not Married aka Single, WHO will they show those clothes eehhhmm ?? :)
in the hypermarket, you are NOT dressed modestly! Lol! I think you are hiding from someone!
Uk, thanks
Here is an excerpt of it :While a specific dress code is not mandated, both men and women should dress in
appropriate, modest clothing. Employees and their families should be particularly
conscious of their dress when visiting the large shopping malls, souqs or other areas
frequented by mixed nationalities. It is particularly important to dress modestly during
the month of Ramadan. Normal swimwears, including bikinis, are acceptable on the
beach and pool areas with modest cover-ups, T-shirts, etc desirable when bathers move
away from the swimming areas. Topless sunbathing by women is not permitted.
Now, all is well for me then. I believe I do dress modestly. I hope everyone else does too.:)
have you seen them dress inappropiately, of course not. They are respectable ladies of QL.
BTW, did you saw those beautiful Qlers in bikini? Of course they are on the beach, so it's appropiate.
What's trouble? Being yelled at by some cranky Qatari lady. So be it. You can't please everyone.
Uk, I've looked and looked and I cannot find a single thing that says if you dress inappropriately you could be prosecuted. Except it says that if women go topless they will be prosecuted.
technically it is not a law. But here, not ONLY laws you can break, even cultural traditions and habits, when not followed will land you in trouble.
So again, let them wear what they want. Just hope that everyday is a lucky day!
MM as they follow the Sharia law to some extent hence its embedded in their culture and institutions.
That's not a law UK: "While a specific dress code is not mandated, both men and women should dress in
appropriate, modest clothing."
Again it's just a suggestion. There is nothing that says, if you don't dress is x and x way, you will be punished by xx
www.cmu.edu/hr/international/forms/conduct.pdf
here you go...:) found it :)
O NM.. now where did I leave my latest version of Marhaba booklet. or did I see them in very small writings on the entrance to every Mall..:)
There are no laws UK. The dress code is a suggestion. Not a law.
UK, please do tell me where I can find those laws!
Laws have always been there about modest dressing. Its just because its not been vigorously implemented that some women and men are either not sure where the limits is due to their ignorance to the law or some are just testing the boundaries!
I do agree that some expat girls are giving everybody else a bad impression. Yesterday, whilst having coffee at the Souq my friends and I were dismayed to see two expat women wearing skirts way too short, drawing extra attention from the public. It was crass and unnecessary.
I can see the need to respect the sensitivities of local women and their culture. After all, we are guests and must respect our hosts. However, to find modest clothes in Doha is a tricky business, especially if choosing clothes from big Malls such as Villaggio or Landmark. We are faced with overly exposed Summer clothing or middle aged size 20 plus :(
it's all in the mind. If you are lucky not to be reprimanded, GOOD. If you are not that lucky and be reprimanded, then just count it as UNLUCKY day. Now, as to the consequence of unlucky day, WHO KNOWS? We all knew what Qatar is, right?
I just hope you can do that in actuality? You may be RIGHT, but let's see where will you land? Be warned!
Sometimes I wish I could just through on an abaya and not bother doing my hair or thinking about my outfit! lol! ...in this heat however, I may pass out!!
A law about wearing Abhayas, like Saudi has, would be awesome...
I wouldn't bother to get dressed.... just chuck on some knickers and a bra and throw on an abhaya.....
Now, tell me..... who'd be more appropriately dressed;-)
Marco, no, I am not Muslim and therefore am not compelled to wear them.
Unless the laws change to like they are in Saudi.
nomerci: start shoppin for Abayas! lol
Honestly NM, I say wear whatever you feel comfortable with. Forget all of these busy bodies that whine and complain. There are NO laws about dressing modestly. Not a single one.
Surely there are more important things in the world to worry about than what a woman wears.
The first Qatari woman who approaches my wife and attempts to castigate her for what my wife is wearing will have a verbal hell unleashed upon her..........be warned.
----
Ok, so last year it was the shoulders that had to be covered, this year we are down to the elbows?
Can somebody, PLEASE, say clearly WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO WEAR?????
we must always attend the Bat's party like Bats. i agree to that, it is a MUST that we respect the culture of the country & a big salute for those who dress properly not forgetting all the faithful ladies who wears the Abaya right.
yet my concern is........... what about all those QATARI ladies dressed in Abaya''s which are open 3/4? its just some buttons held to gather from they belly area, all te rest is open, tons of make-up & not even the heads being covered.
Is it a sign of heat? or a sign that they seek in the attention of another man while being with their men? or they become so helpless, desperate & think "whats the point of spearing a few thousands of $$$ & wearing something branded if I cant actually show it out?"
should the local authorities take action against their kind 1st before pointing out at another???
grow up man from 18th century mind???!!
mods removed the word which represents the dolphin floggers or say manual gear accelerators or even easy to comprehend the good time handlers hahaha, forum of the day
oh fish! let those expat women at least fill the fantasy gaps of the wankers...
lol @ men wondering around ladies fitting rooms ... hahaha... result of blocking porn sites :D:D:D quest for something to wank on ...
Seems there are quite a lot of insecure local married women around the malls who have nothing much going on for their lives besides ogling at the fit Expat woman’s body and beating themselves up for eating so much junk food and not exercising when they were younger.
There are no actual laws against inappropriate dress in Qatar. So the police CAN'T arrest anyone for wearing too little. The whole "You're in a Muslim country, please respect our culture and dress modestly" is not a law it's a suggestion. The most the police could do is suggest to someone that they go home and change.
Malls can put guidelines "No shirt, no shoes, no service" type things, but if they don't enforce it, then you'll still see men and women dressed inappropriately in the malls.
" There have been instances when gentle persuasion did not convince such Negabi women to leave the mall, the security staff had to intervene and evict them says the report from london. ISLAMOPHOBIA!
I am afraid 'some' are just willing to rub with danger of involving themselves with the law to sit idle behind bars for summer months...
Do Saudi Arabia as a neighbour for example has any menace like this ?
about this modest attire for women. Let them wear what they want. But surely, luck will end one way or the other. Hope it is not someone you know or love.
In this region, very hard to argue what is allowed and what is not. If you are an expat (read" GUEST), behave as one. Behave not as what you believe but what your host believe. Better be safe than sorry.
I don't see what the fuss is about. Why bother with the headache of agonising about women inappropriately dressed? If the Qataris are unhappy about it, don't let these people in the country in the first place. A) they're not needed so B) hire people with wives who will respect the traditions and moral values of the country.
malls, botiques, hypermarket should stop selling such clothes if thats the case.... :)
don't worry guys, there will be a ban on its way. Remember the restaurants in pearl who were lavishly pouring liquor before a total ban.
do you know how hard it is to find clothing in Doha that is modest? My wife and daughter have about given up as most of it is skank wear. If someone would open a shop that has western style clothing that covers the elbows and knees, they would make a fortune. Instead its all stuff that would make a porn star blush.
Now the world is global village and we can see what ever is happening any part of the world by one click So if we saw that in front of us live it's doesn't make any difference only thing we can do that we must keep our self under control our self always and respect to all culture
It's the governments fault. Set clear guidelines & punishments or feck off.
Exactly Brit.
It's getting a bit tiring hearing this same thing over and over.
If dress codes and regulations are that important, then do us all a favor and put signs at malls saying exactly what is, and what isn't, acceptable.
It doesn't logically follow to say that modest dressing is an important part of the local culture, and then say that there is no clearly agreed upon standard for what is modest.
Unless people are told what they can and can't do, don't be surprised if people break the secret laws.
That pretty much sums it up.
My personal view always remains: As long as it's not illegal, I would never ever advice any non Muslim women on what they should and shouldn't wear based on my religious/moralistic point of view,simply cos..duh..they are not Muslim. And if it is a Muslimah then I will only advice her, with proof from the religion, and leave her alone to make her own decision.
If it is ever made illegal though, clearly, then I will never support anyone breaking the law of any land they are in..period.
Good summary.
Maybe a post in one of the newspapers would be good. If you work for a company they have a dress code and its clearly stated.
Didn't we do this a few weeks ago...??
Argument from One side : No clear written or communicated guidelines from government. Why do they sell these clothes if they don't want s to wear them? Some Qataris don't dress As per their religion..
Argument from others: you should dress modestly . Respect the culture. F you don't want to adhere to the rules then leave. Exact women are bad ...
Did I mss anything :0)
Summer dress meant to be worn indoors :)
'sign of loose morals'...... that's funny.
Expat women should wear appropriate clothing for places like shopping malls but Qatari women benefit financially from the expat labor building the country. If the expats living here offend them so much they should petition the government to slow or stop the pace of development and reduce the expat population.
Then why are summer dress meant for..??
Bad, bad expat women :(