Homosexuality is Biological in Fruit Flies.
Hi Guys, read this today and found it very interesting. :) I got this one from Perez Hilton.com but it was also in http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210094541.htm
and a few others.
Scientists Make Fruit Flies Gay, Then Straight Again
While several studies find homosexuality in humans and other animals is biological rather than learned, a question remains over whether it’s a hard-wired phenomenon or one that can be altered.
A new study finds that both drugs and genetic manipulation can turn the homosexual behavior of fruit flies on and off within a matter of hours.
While the genetic finding supports the thinking that homosexuality is hard-wired, the drug finding surprisingly suggests it’s not that simple.
In fact, homosexuality in the fruit flies seems to be regulated by how they interpret the scent of another.
Dramatic result
Homosexuality is widespread in the animal world. But scientists have long debated whether, in humans a “gay gene” exists.
Previous research in humans has suggested that how we interpret scents given off by another person might impact our sexuality.
In the new work, University of Illinois at Chicago researcher David Featherstone and coworkers discovered a gene in fruit flies they call “genderblind,” or GB. A mutation in GB turns flies bisexual.
GB transports the neurotransmitter glutamate to brain cells. Altering levels of glutamate change the strength of nerve cell junctions, called synapses, which play a key role in human and animal behavior.
Post-doctoral researcher Yael Grosjean found that all male fruit flies with a mutation in their GB gene courted other males.
“It was very dramatic,” Featherstone said. “The GB mutant males treated other males exactly the same way normal male flies would treat a female. They even attempted copulation.”
Overreaction
Other genes are known to alter sexual orientation, but most just control whether the brain develops as genetically male or female. It’s not known why a male brain does male things and a female brain acts in female ways, Featherstone and his colleagues say.
“Based on our previous work, we reasoned that GB mutants might show homosexual behavior because their glutamatergic synapses were altered in some way,” Featherstone said. “Homosexual courtship might be sort of an ‘overreaction’ to sexual stimuli.”
To test this, the researchers genetically altered synapse strength, independent of GB. They also gave flies drugs to alter synapse strength. As predicted, they were able to turn fly homosexuality on and off, within hours.
“It was amazing. I never thought we’d be able to do that sort of thing, because sexual orientation is supposed to be hard-wired,” Featherstone said. “This fundamentally changes how we think about this behavior.”
Sense of smell
The team figured fly brains maintain two sensory circuits: one to trigger heterosexual behavior and one for homosexual. When GB suppresses glutamatergic synapses, the homosexual circuit is blocked, the thinking goes.
So they did more tests. As expected, without GB to suppress synapse strength, the flies no longer interpreted smells the same way. The smells in question come in the form of pheromones, chemicals that affect sexual behavior in much of the animal kingdom.
It is not known, however, to what extent human attraction is affected by pheromones. A study in 2005 found that when smelling a chemical from testosterone, portions of the human brains active in sexual activity were turned on in gay men and straight women, but not in straight men.
But at least among fruit flies, “pheromones are powerful sexual stimuli,” Featherstone said. “As it turns out, the GB mutant flies were perceiving pheromones differently. Specifically, the GB mutant males were no longer recognizing male pheromones as a repulsive stimulus.”
The research was published online today by the journal Nature Neuroscience.
red pop, i not say dis but i agree wid dem:
http://www.qatarliving.com/user/pm
PM said Pope? ...
You have sure been doing a lot of attacking lately. First it was me, saying that I was rough, sinister and tormenting in regard to my divorce and now you are attacking Nigel.
I think it's time to go confess your own sins and start out as a nice Pope
http://www.qatarliving.com/user/missmoneypenny
missmoneypenny said pope ...
Pope...Are you alright?
(hop u becum real gud pope, or iz dis all pops typical like u?)
Frog, I agree completely with you that the article is horribly written. I had to read it 4 or 5 times myself to understand it (that's also why I looked up others). Scinetists shouldn't write articles.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
Aghati is probably living a very honey, fruity and nuts life style.
Just take him to the painters in the Industrial area, surely they will put him out of his fruity misery.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
are you fine?? u sure ok?? Chill be calm and be positive.
[img_assist|nid=21285|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
u stupd gypsy?
'gay is fashon in last years.....4 sum countrys' dis wat i say
When I was going through university, the big thing was Thornhill's papers on rape in scorpionflies. A lot of scientists at the time just refused to talk about the conclusions, because if applied to humans they obviously were a defence for rapists.
First ,
I just liked your "clin d'oeil" --------> "You are welcome to believe this is false if you like, nobody is forcing you to believe anything. "
and... I never forced anyone to belive in anything.
"researchers found they were able to use either genetic manipulation or drugs to turn the flies' homosexual behavior on and off within hours."
I'm sorry I re-read the article for the fourth time, and I can't see whether this is a pure genetic manipulation or strictly drugs injection. or maybe i's a combination of both ? anyway, I doubt it was a pure genetic manupilation. Some drugs always help:D
"Previous work from his laboratory showed that changing the amount of glutamate outside cells can change the strength of nerve cell junctions, or synapses, which play a key role in human and animal behavior."
That could be true , but to mention a previous study and ask us to take its finding for granted is really a non-scientific behavior from the part of the writer.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
GB, the gene previously found before working with the drugs to turn it off an on, is a gene for gender blindness or bisexuality. However, in the article it states:
"Post-doctoral researcher Yael Grosjean found that all male fruit flies with a mutation in their GB gene courted other males."
Therefore male fruit flies with the GB gene are homosexual. Also
“Based on our PREVIOUS WORK, we reasoned that GB mutants might show homosexual behavior because their glutamatergic synapses were altered in some way,”
and:
"The team figured fly brains maintain two sensory circuits: one to trigger heterosexual behavior and one for homosexual. When GB suppresses glutamatergic synapses, the homosexual circuit is blocked, the thinking goes."
These three quotes illustrate that homosexuality was present in the fruit flies before the team began experimenting.
This is from the other article I posted.
"But the GB gene became even more interesting when post-doctoral researcher Yael Grosjean noticed that all the GB mutant male flies were courting other males.
"It was very dramatic," said Featherstone. "The GB mutant males treated other males exactly the same way normal male flies would treat a female. They even attempted copulation."
So, Frog, yes this is a theory, and sure it could be wrong, however, they are saying that homosexuality has been documented in fruitflies previous to this study.
You are welcome to believe this is false if you like, nobody is forcing you to believe anything.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
"...researchers found they were able to use either genetic manipulation or drugs to turn the flies' homosexual behavior on and off within hours."
notice the word homosexual.
then after few lines :
"A mutation in GB turns flies bisexual. "
SO? is it homosexual or bisexual ? .... apparently, the result got is more concerned about a bisexual attitude , rather than homosexual. and ... as I said the so-called genetic manupilation is no more than drugs administration. The flies turn "bisexual", because they were no longer able to differentiate between males and females, and not because they were attracted ( for a while) to males.
I never pretend to be expert, and That was the first thing I said when I posted here. and... I always take time reading relevant articles, and I wish people do the same thing either for attached articles or replies posted.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Frog, isn't it amazing how things like homosexuality are neither black nor white, and how since none of us are geneticists or scientists we have conversations were we hypothesize about what causes homosexuality. I don't believe any of us said for certain what causes it, since none of us can, but we did discuss whether it is nature, nurture or a combination of both.
Also, if you paitiently read the article you will see that the team identified homosexuality and bisexuality in fruit flies, and the gene that causes it BEFORE experimenting with drugs. So homosexuality in fruit flies is a natural occurence, unless you want to argue that Mommy and Daddy fruit fly raised them to be homosexuals.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
What a bunsh of mess ?
Some say : Homosexuality is biological and natural and genetic. So it's not Their "fault" ( Gypsy's words) They 're born gays :)
after a while they contradict themselves ? No, not completely bilogical. It has something from both environement and genes ??? lol what a mess .
Well, I would repeat my question : can gays have chilcdren if they chose to narry another from the same "sex" ? Can they have a real family . they may adopt children, but how the kids would call the two gay parents ? Mom and DAd ? Dad and Dad ? lol
Humdullilah , even in a large parcel of Europe and America gay marriage is still not allowed. Then , we may say goodbye to Humanity reproduction and get a new sterile world :)
Being gay is a choice and it's neither forced by genes or bilogically triggered. It's a choice afterall. The environement may have effects on such a sexual orientation, but you'll always have a choice.
Just one last comment about those fruit flies. I already said : Under drugs effects even the straightest of men could turn gay or bisexual. The poor flies have been drugged and when they tried to court male flies , the scientist said this is because of the BG Blind gender. lol . But with the amount of drugs you injected into their thiny body, how would you expect them to behave "normally". Sometimes , scientists are ready for all to prove their "hypothesis" is right. Actually, it's not them who can turn the flies sexual orientation ON/ OFF . It's just the drugs effect which mel away and the poor flies start to get their normal sense of orientation.
I hope you will be mature enough to answer my questions rather than starting your Charabia about Homophobic :)
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Yes Aghati, homosexuality has ONLY been around for 4 years. Before 2004 it never existed. :P
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
Red pope...well welcome back from the dead!
Hmmm if people were fruit flies...then all I got a say is I wish I had that fly squasher/splatter thingy! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! :D
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
fashon in last years 4 sum countries, but i 4got 'o' in 'countries'
never forget red pop fruit fly...
i see corny... i guess my broken english is a little bad...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Lets not forget smokes fruity flies, Pm fruity flies...etc
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
We got Cornellian fruity flies, Aghati fruity flies, Gypsy Fruity flies, oH hell, everyone start calling each other in this forum a fruity flies at the end of their nickname...
LOL
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
I think he meant it started with a foursome...cause it says "4 sum", maybe he means that when orgies started, homosexuality began ? :S
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
wat i said???!!!
OK! gays good!
They could turn on and off a simple fly.
I wonder in your real life" What to turns you off pregnantly?
:)
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
are you saying that being gay is not biological and has been started in the last 4 years...
if thats not what your saying please reexplain before i start talking
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gay disgastin.....no bilogic at all...it fashin in last years 4 sum cuntries
well i guess since all guys treat women badly... wouldnt that mean they treat men badly too hahahahahahahahahahhahaah
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
I wonder if there's lots of straight guys out there who were actually born gay but through some traumatic environmental circumstances ended up being just another boring old straight guy who treats women like shizola...:) just a thought.
xmp
the feathers, gypsy
:P
Could be the sneaky way a skunk changes his pin-stripe to the more popular (this summer) wider skirt version ....
You knew some gay people, not all. So don't make generlizations.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
I lived in le marais (Paris) for 2 & 1/2 years. I was over exposed to gay people/culture. My apartment owner were a dutch & Algerian life companions. So yes, i do know gay people
Knox, can u PLEASE read about genetics before commenting ? All the stuff u stated ARE based on genetic predisposition, whether it was eye color, strength, height, intelligence, etc. It has been proven, I'm not making this up! I swear!
And research is still going on human cloning and gene manipulation, so who knows ? we might live to see a superhuman...would be interesting.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Are you taking the piss genesis?
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
started on lesbians cause they end up going stright or bi. As for gay men, their open relationships are discreet. Thanks to the enormous cruising clubs & saunas
I'm very interested to hear how animals cross dress.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
as a good example of how we humans would be if we hadn't become 'socialised' :D
Bruce Bagemihl -- book -- Biological Exuberance -- and how it proves that sexuality in nature is "gay," "straight," and everything in between
Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity .. portrays an animal kingdom that embraces a whole spectrum of sexual orientations.
From female grizzly bears cooperating their cubs to trysting male lions fending off other envious males, the book paints a complex mosaic that resembles humanity.
"Animals are not only capable of homosexuality and bisexuality, as many owners of domestic pets can verify. They are also capable, according to Bagemihl, of rape, "divorce," cannibalism, child abuse, "cross-dressing," and infidelity. "It's an expanded vision of what the natural world is all about," he says. "We're not alone in having a range of sexual behaviors. This is something that is all-encompassing."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_1999_Feb_16/ai_53877996
Not a geneic scientist Knox, but I'll be sure to send your wishes to the guys who created Dolly the sheep.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
Ummm...do you actually know any gay people genesis? Lesbians have almost no problems with cheating and very few have open relationships. Gay men I know who have chosen marriage don't do those either. None of the ones I know are seeing shrinks or are on Prozac (and so what if they are, is there a problem with either of those).
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
creating the super human being.
hahahahahah genesis... you mean just like regular people... why do you think shrinks have jobs... because of so called normal people...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
live happily ever after . They end up cheating on each other or having an open relationship. A big fat lie.
Gay culture nowadays is all about being straight. Gays today rather be straight acting than sissy.
If gay life is so called "normal", how come most of them see "shrinks" or on Prozac?
ok nox... now your being stupid... yes genes to make up intelligence and strength... thats why its my responsibility as a more intelligent person to inform you that you are wrong... AGAIN...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Ummmmm....knoxcollege you can find those genes. And they are experimenting with altering them in people....so it's only a matter of time till we can make a super beautiful person.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
if you believe that genes dictate intelligence and strength.
Very soon we will have those who will say that genes dictate religion as well.
Hopefully one day we will find the genes responsible for strength and endurance then there would be no need for competitions/olympics. Then only those with the special gene will compete and it will the Clash of Titans. Hell one day when the gene for intelligence is found we should only allow the intelligent ones to command us.
I want to find the gene for beauty, height, eyes color etc etc and then I will create a master piece.
There used to exist something called probablity as well.
you learn well young corny...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Also Knox, animals with complex social structures (like humans) don't commit incest.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
He's been through alot, and YET he still doesn't care and walks proudly. Hats off for him!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Well I am confident in many ways, but not like the gays. Oh ur right master, I don't know why I'm talking...heck I don't know why I'm even thinking...I should lashed or stoned! Evil corrupted woman!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Corne, he just makes it look easy. He's been through A LOT, hospitalized many many times (usually by guys who came on to him then beat him up) :(
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
Knox, the laws on animals ARE applied on humans, afterall scientifically we are animals too. Testing always starts with animals, and when the tests show consistent results, they start testing on humans, come on u can't expect them to experiment on humans right away, we're not lab rats. For example, cloning...didn't they first test it on sheeps and cats ?
As for our intelligence, strength, and endurance...they ARE dictated by genes.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
my last post was towards corny...
oh and corny pm me were the meet up is this weekend
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
your society is against you... your a women... now stop talking ahhahaahahhahahah just kidding...
thats another thing thats possibly biological... confidence... being able to not care what other people think... but you can over come that too... social behavior is a problem among many... but i think anyone can over come it
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
They live that life in Canada ThatGuy and probably the Netherlands to.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
If only the laws on animals could apply on humans, we would explore new dimensions and incest will not be of an issue. Animals practice it so why not humans?
So bi-people have both those genes and transvestites have a locked gene that needs to be released. Life would be very easy if our intelligence, strength, endurance was dictated by genes. Hopefully one day with the genetic mutation we will create the Super Humans and maybe as many Einsteins we need.
Actually Gypsy, me and a friend were talking the other day about your Qatari friend ;)
And I was telling him, I wish I had that confidence to live my life so happily and proudly even though my entire society is against me.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
well to be honest... were do they live normal lives... just curious? because they dont always get the opertunity in america... which most people seem to think they do
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Completely agree That Guy!
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
Maybe cause I grew up in this part of the world, it's kinda hard for me to imagine them leading normal lives. I should travel more! Anyone care to pay for my ticket ? It's for "research" purposes haha.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
i dont think there the funnest i think there just the most confident... because just like some one else with a disposition in life they tend to not care about societys point of views and they are them selves... which is hard for even so called normal people... so i find that the best people to hang around are those who dont care about social society's stigmata of being normal... and just be them selves
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
They do Corne, and in good liberal countries they can :). I don't know a single gay person who doesn't want to get married and raise children and have the house with the white picket fence, they just want to do it with someone of the same sex.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
thats actually why alot of them say there not gay... is because they want to fit in...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
I must say gays are the funnest!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
I wonder if it's because of society's pressures or because those gay people wish to lead a normal life ? I'm not saying gays are abnormal, I'm saying that maybe if it were up to them, they would want to get married, have children, grow old together, etc just like the rest of us.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
i agree
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Thinking of it Corne, I wouldn't want them to change! I'd worry that changing their sexual orientation would change who they are, and I love my friends the way they are.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
corny many do choose to be straight again because of the problems being gay causes in society... its bullsh!t but its true
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
It's the close minded people ThatGuy, because they are usually the ones to enforce their beliefs through violence. All of us left wing liberals are usually happy enough to say "well I disagree with you, but you have a right to think the way you want and live your life the way you want." Then we get shot.
Corne - I don't know, I'm going to have to discuss this with them this weekend for sure.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
So Gypsy, given the choice to be straight again, would they ?
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
i think as long as some ones sexual orientation doesnt matter ... then people wont care about other things and other issues such as race or religion... i think it will aslo be a problem because there will always be some one who is so closed minded that they find an issue... so the extremes of society will keep such openness from ever taking place...
which makes me wonder... is close mindedness the problem or is being open minded the problem
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
I was just reading about psychotic diseases in identical twins, and if one has a disease, for example schizophrenia, then it's only a 50% chance that the other twin would get it. I think all diseases, sexuality, habits, obesity tendencies, etc are genetically predisposed but triggered by the environment. So if one twin is gay, it's not a 100% probability that so is the other.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
I've heard that article before. It raises as many questions as finding a "cure" All I can think is that every homosexual person I know says it's nature, and that they would never knowingly choose to be gay. So, whether nature or nurture or a bit of both, it occurs at such a level that it's completely subconscious and completely ingrained to the point that gays cannot change how they feel. SO either way it's NOT their fault they are different and since they don't hurt anyone why not support their differences. :)
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
I wonder if people were given the choice of being homosexual or not, would they choose to ?
And if sexuality can be changed, how would that effect us ? will people start being gay one week and straight the other ? That's just going to mess things up (more than they're already messed up anyways)
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
i just thought you were implying that it was a problem... so now that we are on the same page... im curious has to how you stand on this article...
'Identical twins have identical genes. If homosexuality was a biological condition produced inescapably by the genes (e.g. eye color), then if one identical twin was homosexual, in 100% of the cases his brother would be too. But we know that only about 38% of the time is the identical twin brother homosexual. Genes are responsible for an indirect influence, but on average, they do not force people into homosexuality. This conclusion has been well known in the scientific community for a few decades but has not reached the general public. Indeed, the public increasingly believes the opposite.'
this is from this site...
http://www.narth.com/docs/studyseeks.html
i feel it shows that its not always a genetic issue... but its also part choice... and if its by choice by come ... and not by choice by others... is the who chose to be gay right or wrong?
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
No worries. I figured someone would pick up on that, but actually I blame the limits of the English language, I'm not sure what other word to use. :S
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
my fault i mis understood what you were saying here
"Personally I found this article fascinating for a lot of reasons, but mostly because it poses the question, if Homosexuality is biological (as it is in fruit flies) and someday in the future we can develop the "cure" for humans, would we actually use it? :S What are the implications of having a cure for homosexuality? What if someone were to refuse it?"
i thought you were implying that we should try and "so called" cure people...
my fault for the misunderstanding...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
ThatGuy, where did I say it was disease :S??? I never used that term. I'm arguing that it is biological and using this article as a way to enforce that view. I was simply questioning what the impact of scientists being able to change or "cure" someones sexual orientation would have on our, gradually accepting, society. For instance, what would someone like Frog, who hates homosexuals anyway and thinks they are diviant, so to someone who chose not to "cure" themselves. It's a fairly huge question with a lot of implications. I was hoping to discuss it.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
hahahahahaha you dont think out side the box if you think its a disease... you think just like every other simple minded person out there...
homosexuality isnt a disease... and if its biological then its just like haveing blue eyes or red hair... its who you are...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Read the article Tadpole.
"discovered a gene in fruit flies they call “genderblind,” or GB. A mutation in GB turns flies bisexual."
They found a gene.
As for the "cure" I'm simply repeating what the article says and wondering about the implications.
Sorry if thinking outside the box disturbs you.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
i think i cant wait until there is a cure for stupidity... that way they can fix stupid ... because if homosexuality is biological then there is no disease so there is no cure... its just natural...
no go read a book
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
"if Homosexuality is biological (as it is in fruit flies) and someday in the future we can develop the "cure" for humans"
LOL khalass it's certified now ??? Homosexuality is biological . Miss Know-all has certified Dr. David Featherstone findings ? lol
a "cure" ..... so you think honosexuality is a kinda desease ?
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Well I'm happy to see that their were very few homophobic comments in this. :) Personally I found this article fascinating for a lot of reasons, but mostly because it poses the question, if Homosexuality is biological (as it is in fruit flies) and someday in the future we can develop the "cure" for humans, would we actually use it? :S What are the implications of having a cure for homosexuality? What if someone were to refuse it?
SA, I think this article answers your question, after all there are gay fruit flies, yet they have no concept of homosexuality and it's implications, so yes a person who grew up never hearing about homosexuality would still be homosexual.
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco
This article seems to support my understanding that in some cases homosexuality is biological; in other cases it can be environmental. Cool read, thx Gypsy!
xmp
life is always full of people who dont understand because they dont want the change... change is scary... and it makes it easier just to ignore it ... thats why if we keep going with this conversation only a few other people will keep discussing about it ... the rest of the people will either write us off as stupid or blabber mouths...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
People need to be educated more on the sciences behind it to understand it. See when I read this thread, it made alot of sense to me cause I know what glutamate does to the neurotrasmitter strength and all. I don't mean people should all become scientists but they need to understand the basics of genetics, which is like u said there is no black and white. If there was black and white, we wouldn't have such variation among humans.
Moreover, people need to come out of their caves...and think that MAYBE...just MAYBE there's a different way of thinking. I think the biggest problem is that people are scared of change, they're scared of a different way of thinking and that's why alot of people refuse to believe that homosexuality may be biological.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
exactly corny... good post...
nothing in this world is white and black... and as soon as people understand that more people will be less closed minded on certain issues...
its hard to understand that some one could be kinda gay... or be fully gay or be so gay they want to be the opposite sex... or just barely gay that they just want to test things out...
look at every thing around your room... is there any thing in your room a solid color... or does everything have shades of different colors...
thats the same way with genetics
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
SA, that's an interesting question. Is a gay person inevitably gay ? I think homosexuality is genetic but effected by external stimuli, maybe ? I don't know. I think sexuality in general is more of a gradient rather than white and black, kinda like the height gene.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
wasnt Bush and Blaire involved in this experiment? i think it was called the Fruity Pear ;)
Where there is Fire...There is Coke. Where there is Rum..There is Smoke - Sir Smoke-a-Lot
i agree that more people are being open minded but its being proven more and more every day that for majority of male homosexuals its not a choice...
i know many people who are gay... and looking back on when they were kids... it is very obvious they would grow up and be gay because of the fact that they were flamboyant in there younger years as well...
i have never met a homosexual who didnt seem gay as a child... but ... i also know that in our society today in america gay people are the new person to be picked on... and its not an open society so there are more people who are gay but dont admit it because of fear of the society's acceptance...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
I get oranges STRAIGHT from the tree jauntie
are they prone - hey! maybe it's the fruit wot duz it.
Lay off the oranges Kelly!
Nightie night. Good girl jauntie
you KNOW you really meant to say 'bent'
oh boy
bed time for jauntie, methinks :/
Do I have time to edit this before anyone sees it? I honestly didn't mean offence, it sort of went with the 'flying in a straight line' thing.
The study did not mention if they wax when they become gay
...be allowed to adopt maggots :D
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Can fruit flies fly?
i dont know if what im tryig to say will come out right but here goes: if you brought up a boy in an environmet where he never heard of anything like homosexuality do you think there is any chance that that boy will be homosexual???
i dont believe that every homosexual out there made the choice to be homosexual, but we do live in a society where we are taught to be open-minded. perhaps this "being open-minded" is actually increasing homosexuality.
dont know if you're getting what im trying to say
i guess no one remembers the comments i posted about how scientist think the genes that make a mail homosexual makes a female more fertile... because after a study of some 100 homosexuals... they asked how many brothers and sisters they had and also asked home children there sisters had and proved that it was above average over the mean of the 100 male homosexuals...
so that means its possible that being gay is a not always a choice...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Well then Frog, show us!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Cornellian,
of course I have proofs :) ....to be continued
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
ask him simple questions how lolipops are made and how are they to be SUCKED.he is a kid dont forget that.
[img_assist|nid=21285|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
Frog, do u have proof to that theory ? U can't state a theory without solid proof.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Cornellian:)
I have a very easy theory : The origins of homosexuality is sexual perversity.
But As I said before everyone is free to be whatever he/she wants, but just think about a world where all people are gays :) I guess we'll have plenty of healthy kids around lol
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Frog, as much as we would like be certain about the origins of homosexuality, it's not that easy. Years and years of research must be conducted before reaching close to a "theory", which is ultimately supported but never proved. That's science, we're never sure.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
like I said yesterday, I sometimes think I type in invisible ink ;D
Hi again to rainbow, also.
Scarlett is ALWAYS non-prejudiced (except when she's watching my little legs going like the clappers on the treadmill in the morning THEN she is DEFINITELY prejudiced against us vertically challenged people - she giggles at me) :P
I will comemnt on your statement, seeing as I'm subject to Fox News 16 hours a day I think the there viewers would be the next logical step up from fruit flies. haha
Scarlett I like your none prejudiced way of dealing with them
I join you BP in the same questioning :) Why such an interest in male Homosexuality ? What sorta theory are those scientists trying to valide? and ...eventually why Gypsy is always posting about the same subject again and again? I'm not one of those who want to stone gays to death, but I will always say that being gay for a male or a female is and will never be biological.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
what we do does not define us, what defines us is what we do after we fall...
I do not pretend to be a scientist or an expert, but I will have my say, and the first thing I notice is an obvious contradiction between your statement:
"While several studies FIND homosexuality in humans and other animals is biological rather than learned "
And
The article's title:" While the biological basis for homosexuality remains a mystery"
So? Is it still a mystery or others have already found out a valid theory? I'm a bit confused and I'm trying to be as objective as possible, but that first statement seems a bit ambiguous.
Even the Dr. David Featherstone seems still not sure of anything and cannot affirm or confirm any final results. The whole thing has not transcended the limits of Hypothesis and it's rather inappropriate to start publishing results at that stage of research.
I'm also surprised that Neurobiologists such as Dr. David Featherstone are using broad terms such "by a nose". He himself said: "Knowledge gained from flies has repeatedly been shown to be BROADLY applicable to all animals, including humans. Over 77% of human disease genes and 87% of human mental retardation genes have Drosophila orthologs."
Broadly? Is that what you call scientist findings?
A last comment before I close that first reply: If Homosexuality is biologist then why scientists need so much manipulation and regulation to prove it?
Within the article itself I picked up some terms that refer to such a truth:
Controlled- regulator- manipulation- drugs- to turn- unusual…etc
Are we looking for scientific theory or forcing facts to validate our own "hypothesis"?
I mean even the most heterosexual man on earth can turn to a "gay" if manipulated and drugged the way those fruit flies were lol.
….. to be continued.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
jauntie as usual nice comment but have noticed that most of the time it gets blown away without any comments from others
I read a couple of responses to it on the internet e.g.
"Flies are a lot like humans, you know.
Except with much less DNA, a fraction of the life span, less complex brains, six legs, and wings.
Also, they're much, much, much, much smaller.
But according to Fox, if they can do it to flies..."
"If they can do it to flies
They can do it to those who watch Fox News".
It does make sense".
hee hee
'fruits' ?
Or am I imagining I read that somewhere ...
Just a thought why do they always do these research things related to male homosexuality...............never read any about these studies refering to female homosexuality...........interesting
and...I don't care WHAT sexual preference fruit flies have...I squash them every chance I get...I'm not prejudiced against any of them...
yeah, I was only joking...tend to agree with you on that.
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Love is the answer...
lol DG.......actually we Knights are very Hetro.......goes with the job, you know rescueing damsels in distress, fighting Dragons, that sort of thing. Having said that I am a beleiver that we all have everything in our Jenes, good, bad, evil, Hetro, bi-s?x, homo........its just some are more dominant than others, so spome of them never come to the forefront in our character
Actually, now that I think about it, black prince, it's you smelling the aftershave of another which could turn you, isn't it. Best peg your nose. lol.
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Love is the answer...
lol DG...will never be able to look a fruit fly the same way again.....little devils.........queer fruit flies what a thought.....hope they dont misbehave on my peaches..........disgusting
lol black prince...this opens up a whole new can of fruit flies, now doesn't it!
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Love is the answer...
Just read it again the statement "In fact, homosexuality in the fruit flies seems to be regulated by how they interpret the scent of another." has me worried, better be careful which damn aftershave I buy in future
Oh............god........frogy is going to love this one..........I see dark clouds looming on the horizon
ooo this is really interesting!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Ok...now this the only thread I can access....:S Qatari!!!
"How come I can pick my ears but not my nose? Who made up that rule anyway? How come you say that's the way it is, that's just the way it goes, maybe you should decide for yourself what you can do and what you can say." Ani Difranco