How it will affect British Muslims?

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/killing-of-innocent-people-has-no-place-in--islam-20130527-2n70h.html

No I don't remember that case at all. What Security Service?

The web is more complex than seems. Remember the case in Caanada where the security service encouraged youngsters to join and then entraped them.

As we gone far from the main subject, and as no one answered my questions, i will end this as i started it

-----------------------

Till when the murders will keep hiding behind religions?

No one knows

Why the other Innocents have to pay the price?

Cause this is life ,, unfair

Will the Britain Muslims be affected of this barbaric action?

I don't know, but there might be a little effect.

Finally

May he rest in peace ,, this is the main thing.

Just tracking away from the the thread and looking at what have caused the rise of these distorted individuals and the finger clearly is pointed at the British Government. If the British did not allow the Hate Preachers (like Abu QatadaH, Abu Hmaza and Al Masri) asylum in Britain then there will be less Hate Preachers in UK. UK is paying a very high price for allowing the Middleast Bad boys asylum in Britain who preach nothing but hate and brain wash the younglings in Britain.

Anjem Chaurdhary took over from Omar Bakri after he was successfully deported back to his country of origin!

The funny thing is in Britain the Islamic Fundamentalists and the EDL have become so intertwined they might as well get married. They give the reason for each of them to exist.

But Abu-Hamaza Al-masri and many of Al-Muhajorun and the Jihadists groups founding fathers were not.

MN what to do with Qatar's own hate preacher Qadarwi? Qatar seem to be happy with him here spouting hate.

Islamic terrorists are no different to those that are brainwashed with nationalistic pride. Both based on stupid ideas with no place in logic or reason.

Anjem Choudry was born and raised in Britain.

Then shoot the brtainwashed attackers in the head (If they don’t turn themselves in peacefully) and start forced deportations for the masterminds.

I’m sure most of ‘em were not born in the UK/are not UK citizens.

Rip Cord, which is why I think the government needs to cooperate with youth, minority & Islamic organizations, to catch the youth before they're driven to these hate mongers.

Well if I had to wouldn't have a problem at all to take a couple of racists pakie curry slurs,

If that was gonna save me from ‘em blades.

The two involved in this particular killing were born and raised in Britain.

Yes it was a strange thing to watch, most of the people he was marching with would normally say 'pakis go home' even though he was born in the UK.

I deploy the muslim terrorists that help create and grow such groups as the EDL and their friends. By murdering and trying to cut of the head of this soldier they are pushing more moderate people towards these intolerant groups.

Nip the problem in the bud at the root.

Many of these nut jobs aren’t even British citizens or recently became British.

Start forced deportations I say!

RIP: I had to see the vid twice to believe it lol

Ya the EDL is having a field day with this, bloody racist pricks.

Mimi, that is the sad result of this terrible act. Attacks on muslims and mosques has increased dramtically since this incident and it has been a recruitment drive for the EDL.

I did't have to laugh when a muslim of Pakistani origin joined the EDL march in Newcastle against those trying to intimidate the British people and impose their religion

No idea what's been said cause can't be bothered to read the whole two pages.

But, what I would like to see happen as a result of this is more cooperation between the government, minority youth organizations and Islamic organizations, so that they can come up with some kind of plan aimed at reaching at-risk Muslim and minority youth before they turn to hate preachers and hate organizations for their answers and for their feeling of belonging.

Same needs to be done for white youths as well before they join stupid organizations like the EDL.

Nip the problem in the bud at the root.

Well yes when governors put their well-being before the well-being of the society, and when transparency is lacking.

It’s enough to look at the history/lifestyle of the last years of the Al-Ahmir house and their ruling stlye in Granada to understand the tragic ending of their Reign.

RIP: It’s a fixed rate

2.5% from your annual net-profit

Well I would hope not MN.

Why not just have the same tax rate for everyone, why discriminate?

Tax anyway is legalised theft from the government on the people.

RIP: I don't think he dose.

The amount of zakat to be paid on capital assets (e.g. money) is 2.5% (1/40) and it was told us that if all muslim pay their Zakath it will be enough for the poor people. so it is an strategy to bring the poverty line to 0.

bla bla bla bla bla

This taxes money doesn’t go to help poor and needy Muslims, (explaining why is another story for another forum).

But instead, it’s spent by the government on:

(1) Security and protection for them, their temples, churches and synagogues.

(2) Provide means for them to practice their religions freely by spending money towards the construction of religious institutions (churches, temples, synagogues etc)

It is not for GOD.. It is for the people.. I am sure you are matured enough to understand that fact.

Why does God need tax?

That said.

It’s a well known fact in the Islamic history that, there have been times in the Islamic rule when Jizah was collected from non-Muslims and Zakat was taken from Muslims and all the money went towards building State of the art palaces, beautiful Cocumbines and lavish lifestyle like the ones you see in Spain.

the poor, the sick, women, the elderly slaves, monks, priests, religious leaders, and hermits were exempted.

Furthermore taxes applied on Muslims (which is 2.5 percent of the annual income) went to the "Muslim Financial Institute" or “the Islamic fund” or the "House of the Muslim Money"

This money then goes to provide welfare to the poor and the needy citizens both Muslims and non-Muslims.

On the other hand Jizyah is of a varying amount, depending on individual’s financial medical, social situation,

According to my understanding.

Muslims paid Zakat which is an obligatory per capita tax levied on a section of the scoiety and taken annually on certain kinds of property, taken from those who meet certain criteria.

Non-muslims paid jizyah is a per capita tax levied on section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria.

Both were used for welfare/charitable purposes.

I guess taxing non-muslims is better form of discrimination than killing them.

Paying tax is called as Jizya which is a vast topic to discuss. Why when how etc.

No worries.. yeah it is early night now.. we will talk after you read the whole. CHeers. :)

I started to read your link, thanks.

Rather too long I'm afraid for this time of night.

I did stop after I thought the writers apologetics were being stretched too far; I got the point about 'fight' not necessarily suggesting a physical fight but his argument was rather undermined by the fact that the 3 translations he cited still contained the words 'subdued', 'pay the tribute', 'brought low' and 'pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.'

It still sounds like an expansionist, imperialist and totalitarian edict.

:)

Agree with Fathima.. There are 14 or 15 subjects one need to be masters before explaining the meaning of Quran one of them is called as Shan-e-Nuzool which means the knowledge of the time and the situation the verse was revealed.

Aday I read the whole post of yours and I request you to read this as well. http://muslim-responses.com/Fighting_those_who_dont_Believe_/Fighting_those_who_dont_Believe_

No knowledge is also ignorance and so the half or partial knowledge.

Precisely what the prophecy of how Islam will divide into more sects than even the Jews and Christians refers too. Many people will claim their sect is upon the right, but the only right Islam is of those who follow both the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet upon sound knowledge and wisdom, and not just pick and choose what they wish and interpret it as they want.

All the books of the 3 Abrahamic faiths are steeped in ancient attitudes to violence and everyone cherry picks the bits to adhere to and those they reject.

If you consider this verse for granted then the same verse applies on the Michael Adebolajo as this misguided idiot himself is spreading mischief which was never observed during the beloved prophet and the Era if the beloved Caliphs.

Which proves my point.....interpretation is needed via thasfeer; merely reading the Qur'an and hadith are not sufficient. And it's mere mortal man that does the interpretation.

There is no true islam or muslims, as there are no true christianity or christians (or any other religion). There are as many different islams as there are muslims. Which gets me back to the topic; the perpetrators in London were acting in their reading of islam....it may not be yours or many other peoples, but it was theirs. So when they said they were acting in the name of islam they meant it and can justify it in their own twisted way.

Yes those who wish to misinterpret the Quran and twist it to suit their agenda will do so. And that's why the reasonable,peace loving,and wise,Muslims around the world should do all they can to condemn the actions of such people and spread the right knowledge of Islam, both via their speech, teachings and actions.

the Qur'an

here:

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.032

and other sources here:

http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/6966/2/

and here:

http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/6333/2/

"Al-Maidah" is indeed the name of the Surah.......however I was giving the name of the translator into English, i.e. Muhammad Habib Shakir, a graduate of Al Azhar

without the complete Thafseer, which is a long detailed explanation as to why each verse was revealed, and who it refers too exactly,whether the ruling is absolute for all of mankind or only specific for such and such time, etc.

Also we as Muslims follow the Quran upon the understanding of the Prophet and His companions. And we also follow the legal ways of the Prophet.

So the Prophet did NOT go around crucifying and punishing ALL the mischief makers on earth, nor did he order us to do so, rather the verse of killing the mischief makers were specific to these men at that time who oppressed, killed and robbed the Muslims. And not just anyone disobedient to God.

adey: it's all well 'n good, just copy-paste the source from which you :copy-pasted this stuff.

adey: The fact that you pasted "SHAKIR" instead of "Al-Maidah" which is the actual name of the chapter where it speaks of the eye for eye law tells me you got very poor copy-pasted skills.

"SHAKIR" , as you full well know, is the translation :)

"SHAKIR" is a chapter in the Koran?

hmm must of been out of touch.

What's with the 700 character count?

That verse also says it is okay to kill someone who does "mischief". In the Tafsir ibn Kathir, Qatada, one of Muhammad's companions, explained the definition of "Mischief" according to Islam:

(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,"), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth.

The point to this long post is that anything can be read into these books and interpreted any which way.

Then the very next verse:

005.033

SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

Indeed, according to the highly respected Qur'anic exegesis of Ibn Kathir- early qur'anic commentator and Tabi‘un, Sayid ibn Jubayr (who lived at the time of Muhammad, and was a companion of Ayesha), had said:

"He who allows himself to shed the blood of a Muslim, is like he who allows shedding the blood of all people. He who forbids shedding the blood of one Muslim, is like he who forbids shedding the blood of all people."

You have left things out of the verse and not recorded the following verse:

005.032

SHAKIR: 'For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.'

This is written in the past tense and refers only to a previous instruction by Yaweh to 'the children of Israel', doesn't say it's binding on muslims.

except in Syria. UK says this doesnt apply.

The best way to see if anyone is a Muslim or not is to see if they follow the known verse of the Quran

“If anyone slays a person, it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole humanity”

A tell tale sign of a society in collapse. An bankrupt economic system and a foreign policy aligned with imperialism. Join the dots guys. This is what the crisis in capitalism brings - barbarism.

LLR: You know something, watching his crazy speech on youtube, he did really look crazy.

I guess this is the end.But this time you Suli didn't manage to hit the "longest QL thread score ", again :P

A good attempt at breaking your own record though ^_^

If it is caused by a muslim it is religion..

If the same by a non muslim then it is mental illness

If its by Zionist it is their legitimate right.

It's interesting watching people debate whether incidents like this are caused by mental illness or religion, like they are different things

LLR: very well said.

Slu: I see your point, thanks

Suliman/NM: My bad Suliman, please forgive me If if my words came out wrong. what NM said is exactly what I meant.

mature/intensive/comprehensive understanding/ answers.

My apologies Suliman.

MN- You can't Judge a soccer player if you don't know the rules of the game, and knowing how to swim is not enough.

reading the Quran/Sunnah is a good idea, just not good enough to understand all the aspects of the faith.

Because u did not understand anything while reading the quran or sunnah...quran is not just reading...it is about understanding...islam is the complete deen..means the solution of life

sorry for the hijack abu sulieman

History, The authentic doctrines and knowledge of situational case studies explain almost everything to make your decision rational.

Faith is something uncertain which you cant get 100% for those who believe in religion and also for those who dont .

It is the only reference i can offer you, Because it is the reference for all of us, it tells us what to do and how to behave, So you can know what we all follow.

after that you will have a reference to Judge.

And you will also see if there were any word means kill innocents.

Problem,,, I thought we are in a discussion ?

I have no problems :)

Suliman: I said I 'd like to read more mature answers, doesn't discount or invalidate your answer in anyway.

reading the Quran/Sunnah is a good idea, just not good enough to understand all the aspects of the faith.

Thank you Boxbe. :)

and let me add..who practice what islam tells is guided...

Everyone who want to make their mind has to read history, the authentic doctrines and situational case studies.. I mean if I have to make decision about the background of Islam I dont have to see today's Muslims unless I read the history and Authentic Doctrines.

Any decision without that would be a prejudice.

Marco, i do not think this has anything to do with maturity or understanding.

Different people think differently and this we must respect without belitteling them...in fact, doing that degrades the person who does it.

It is this kind of thought that, IMHO, is the main culprit for the state of affairs.

those who read quran and sunnah is a guided muslim

Sulieamn, I think reading the Qur'aan is indeed a good thing to do.

It does not solve the problem though...obviously.

Fatimah see your prvt inbox.

Marco,, what is not mature

If i wanted to know about Christianity i will read The bible ...

That's a very good question NM, and i'd like to see more mature answers than what my friend Suliman just said.

I bet the Soldier's slayer thought he knew all about Islam before he hacked the man's head with that knife.

But then again, this in't a religious forum so....

Just read Quran, and everybody will agree that you have a good background ,,, As it is not a man made

Sulieman, and who decides if one's background about Islam is good or not?

Unfortunately you are ooppsed. Prophet[PBOH] was defending those small group but never ask them to strike back and when he came from Madina to his land back he bestowed his forgiveness to people who were not Muslims. He blessed his forgiveness to a person who killed his Uncle and made a necklace with his body parts..He blessed his forgiveness to the lady who chewed his Uncles Liver..You know after coming to his land where he and all his companions were? They were all praying and crying in mosque asking GOD to show these people right path. It was Prophesy not Politics. Violence started by people who started giving priority to their self than Islam and of course they used religion there upon.

One last thing

This thread wasn't meant to discus any religion

And The Terrorist acts doesn't belong to any religion (Not just Islam)

Everyone is a Muslim aparently

Nomerci ,, If you have a good background about Islam you can decide

For those that state that Islam is the religion of peace, please explain to me while so many people kill in the name of Islam?

We also have to remember that Islam was born out of war and Prohpet Mohamed was a general himself. First defending his small band of Muslims from other Arabs who wished to destroy them and then he went on to conquer the whole Arabian. (Those that came after him carried on his wars and created a huge empire)

In the history of the world who has killed the maximum innocent human being?

Hitler – He was not a Muslim.

Joseph Stalin called as Uncle Joe – He has killed 20 million human beings including 14.5 million who were starved to death in Gulug camps. He was not a Muslim.

Mao Tse Tsung has killed 14 – 20 million. He was not a Muslim.

Benito Mussolini killed 400 thousands – He was not a Muslim.

Ashoka In Kalinga battle has killed 100 thousands – He was not a Muslim.

Embargo put by George Bush is very obvious.

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/mao.html

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/stalin.html

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/mussolini.html

And that's what I do as well, resolutely and regularly condemn all those deviant, misguided and downright evil actions done in the name of Islam by seriously injudicious people claiming to be devout Muslims. This is an obligation upon all Muslims..period!

So, who decides who is Muslim and who is not?

But to answer your question.

And although this isn't the proper forum to say this, but Yes Islam as a whole is a non-violent/non-extremist, peaceful way of life. that said, There are heaps of things i don't agree with and believe certain parts need serious reinterpretations. and that's what I robustly and strongly fight against and oppose with all that i'm

which is something you ready know.

Marco ,,,

Islam don't taught muslims

To kill Innocents for Allah an Ummah???!!!

Suliman: ya habibi watch the vid

Choudary’s tentacles run far across a number of militant Islamic groups. He is a founding member of extremist groups that are banned in many countries, such as Hizb ut-Tahrir and Al-Muhajiroun — of which the alleged Woolwich killer Michael Adebojalo is THOUGHT to have been a member.

THOUGHT doesn't mean 100%

it is not a fact dear

LOL, i will put ur picture and all the information, don't worry

EDL & all the far right wing groups will gain more weight

BTW thanks for airing my personal info on a public forum what's next? post my pic, phone number and house address?

:P kidding hugzzz

Sluiman: Being a close friend of mine, you more than anyone else on this forum know very well what beliefs and principles I stand for. I'll just ask you to scroll up and read my previous first 4 comments.

MN,,, Am just asking and I've seen your first 4 comments

what i mean that there is a difference between what is right and what the crazy criminal thinks

Suliman here you go.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330689/Is-country-mad-Why-Anjem-Choudary-poisonous-teachings-influenced-Woolwich-killers-free-draw-benefits-tour-BBC-studios-spouting-murderous-hatred-Britain.html

watch this vid.

bringing the word islamist, islam etc etc ...these people dont even have the ilm of islam at all...they say they are doing jihad and for Allah (swt) which is absolutely wrong and misguided..it is said, killing one human being is like killing the whole of humanity

Marco ,,, References please

See this is clear example..ur misguided again by the media

what he did is a crime..but what he said for ALlah and ummah, iam sure he does not know about ISLAM at all..a true muslim will not say such kind of words

and just so that you know, he was a member of the "Al-Mohajrrun" radical fascist Islamist group, now banned in the UK.

indoctrinated by no other than the man him self Anjuman choudery, and devout member to the group's principles and beliefs.

Boxbie someone else will give a movie reference which show others things... movies, actions of people , dreams are not the appropriate references.. Educated people know what really Islam is..

Islamphobia was worst thing happened after the fake 9/11. As per some statistics in UK Muslims wont be in minority by 2040..

As in some media Adebolajo had been approached by MI5 six months ago and asked if he would work for the security service... so it is obvious he is not a new guy..

BOXBE14: "IF's and "Buts" won't take away from the fact he did it for Allah and the Ummah.

There is always so many sides of a story.. some are very diplomatic..

Nomerci ,,, Your point of view, practical one, and i respect it.

I didn't mean that Title literally, but as you said they can only write what they are sure about, facts had been said, regardless what will be the results.

Boxbe ,,, It is not a matter of numbers

It about the right and the wrong

Maybe in your eyes he is one, but in his family eye he is the whole world

We refuse the both, what is happening in these countries and what happened in London today.

sulieman, refusal, unless made clear and loud, does not change anything.

Soldiers have a job, they get paid same as us.

They go to foreign lands to protect the helpless and the weak. They have to follow instructions of their superiors. So do not shoot the messenger.

he did it for Allah and blah blah...i will tell u one thing...for sure some one has misguided him..if i ask this guy any question about islam and what islam talks about killing a human being he will stand dumb without any answers...probably there is some one behind misguiding him

as i said watch 27/11 movie and u will understand

As I said Boxbe, you are free to start a thread about this.

Suliman: The man said he did it for Allah and the Islamic Ummah ( nation ) he even pledged for more such atrocities to come the British way.

I fail to see your point of view again, what more proof do you seek?

The press just corresponded to us what the man said and it was all recorded on cam for the whole wide world to see.

the soldiers in these countries were Britishers too

Attacks on Muslims will increase isolation & fuel extremism in that community. Hence the attackers and their supporters are, in an oblique way, doing nothing less than encouraging terrorism.

A huge population of Brits live in GCC and they are getting much respect in the Muslim Society. They are as safe as a common muslim here..If a Benz or BMW driver makes an accident knowingly or whatsoever you wont blame the Mercedes or BMW Manufacturer or you wont burn their factories. Where is common sense? If a misguided idiot damages a peaceful living why others with normal mind has to do something similar?

This is more insane if they hurt other drivers because they are also having the similar car. damn.

Because Boxbe, the murder in London is what this thread is about. If you would like to talk about other things, feel free to start a new thread :)

soldiers have killed many innocent lives in iraq, pakistan, afghanistan etc...so why so concerned about one psycho who killed one soldier

sulieman, how can the media discern if he is crazy or not? If they print that, they leave themselves open for libel. Besides, if they did, there would be numerous other people suing them for saying this guy is not Muslim.....so, simply repeating what the guy himself says is the right thing to do.

It's a fact, so they can print it.

i request u guys to see the movie 26/11 by ram gopal verma..:)

turbohampster ,, No problem dear :)

nomerci ,,, Media used to use a shiny titles for their news, business issues ,, they don't care if it was right or wrong

They could write "A crazy guy kills a man under the pretext of Islam"

So, it shows that he is crazy ,, cause the only one who can do such a thing is absolutely crazy.

Islam is a religion of peace. Those propagating extremism are enemies of humanity. Isolate the extremists!

Ok Sulieman

Seems that we got are wires crossed and I accept your apology and I apologise if I wasn't very clear and caused you offence with my first post!

:-)

turbohampster

I asked this question because of what happened in the past with the Muslims in the US, after September the 11th

you seem a decent British guy and you understand the facts, but there are many others who aren't, as in any country there are

good and bad/ smart and stupid people

So am sorry if you saw that offensive to your country, cause i didn't mean it that way.

And i second you, Innocent people should not pay what the criminals did.

Sulieman, the murderer himself said those things. The media were reporting it.

Some medias showed this topic like it is an Islamic act, and that Islam is asking Muslims to kill the others, which is 100% wrong.

But it worked and some people react so fast, went to some mosques and did some mess, without thinking, but you know you can expect anything from an angry person.

I then said compare this to what happened in some countries after a Movie and a cartoon!

Innocent people who had nothing to do with either were murdered by baying mobs.

I can understand how people found the movie offensive and would want to demonstrate or condemn such things.

But why kill innocent people who had nothing to do with it???

In conclusion - I was arguing my case at how TOLERANT the British public are and the great majority don't hold normal Muslims responsible for this act.

Suliham I am not from the far "right"

Your post says "How will this affect British Muslims"

And you seem to imply that my country is not tolerant and the majority of people would hold Muslims in the UK responsible for this terrible act...

I strongly disagree with that opinion! And I said I am proud of how my country has reacted to this attack on our way of life!

Why?

Because apart from a couple of incidents of vandalism to a couple of Mosques (not one Mosque has been destroyed!), which were completely uncalled for and wrong. All communities have come together to condemn the actions in peaceful protest against the attack.

They already have the laws.... the problem is execution..

I do sometimes wonder whether the British government has ulterior motives for allowing Anjem to flourish..

Sulieman, how has the media misled the public in this case?

Brit: well then they better start making some.

Anjem Choudhry hised under the cloak of free speech. However, the UK does have laws relating to "incitement" and he should be prosecuted under such.

Yes sister ,, I agree

It is worse when somebody pretend that he is a Muslim and relate his nasty actions to Islam.

I understand that the British people were angry and they destroyed some mosques ,, but that was because of the Media misleading news.

But the case of cartoon -which is out of the topic- it was not the same.

I do beg to defer here, slightly. IMO what these men do are worse for the reputation of Islam than the movie.

The movie and cartoons were produced by Islamphobics and haters so no one can really take them to be anything of concrete proof against Islam. But what these men are did claiming to be Muslims and quoting Quranic ayahs will be assumed by many to be Islam!

The Prophet himself whilst patient with disbelievers in Islam abusing him, showed great animosity towards deviants and extremists,because the latter can do far more harm by claiming what they do is drawing them closer to Allah.

Hence yes, I believe all Muslims should condemn strongly the actions of the woolwich killers!

I still don't understand what you meant though.

Sul: If you're barking up the wrong tree, you're looking for something / saying something in the wrong place or going about something in the wrong way. that's what I meant.

Sul: Indeed it dose.

Sad, bloody ending though.

turbohampster: you are barking up the wrong tree.

you said

"Sul: Indeed it dose.

Sad, bloody ending though"

replying about what i wrote to turbohampster

So now tell me what do you want?

Sul: I'm sorry habibi, but I don't see the connection tween what I said/ this incident, and the offending movie you are talking about.

Marco, yes, I agree. They should have gotten rid of him before he was able to do what he did...then again, that goes for any criminal. Unfortunately it does not work that way.

In the end, everybody is responsible for their own actions.

Landlover...yes, IF there is somebody else around. If not, they will take matters into their own hands...although, i have to say, I'd rather face a madman than a big spider...:0

I hold the British govt the full responsibility for this soldier's murder.

Marco ,, No it is not

The Movie and the pictures were humiliating our "Prophet Mohammad" -alaih elsalat w al alsalm-

We are as a Muslims won't do the same for Jesus cause he is as Holly as Prophet Mohammad in Islam.

when the movie released the country where this man lives didn't Condemn his act, so Do you want us to keep silent while somebody is humiliating our religion symbols ?

This time the British Muslims debits what this psychopath did ,, and i really wish that he burn in hell

so it is not the same!!

FathimaH:Quiz: Why is Anjem Choudary is still free to spew hatered on BBC?Ans: Cuz the British govt is up to smfin very dirty.

And the killers looked demonic and insane to say the least. The fact that they first hack a man to death, then start taking God's name, attempting to justify themselves using religion, and apologize for women having to see the horrifying act, proved they were bloodthirsty psychopaths.

That said I do wonder at people like Anjem Choudary and his cronies still being able to spew hate the way they do. Should not some action be taken against them? Or will the authorities just wait till speech turns to action and that too criminal actions that can cost lives?

turbohampster,,, you are from the far right, and the murderer was from the far lift

And you both with destroy us all

For me i Condemn that horrible action, and i feel really sorry for the man who died, and there is no way to compare this with "movie or a cartoon".

what you are trying to do

Grow up

Until a raccoon or an insect appears from somewhere. :)

No, not really. Women are generally brave.

Amazing isn't it that a few people who "confronted" him were all women :O)

It will not only affect British Muslims, it will affect Muslims in all Western countries.

And also non Muslims...as it is not necessarily obvious if a person is Muslim or not.

But as said before, if we were to compare to other countries, the effect will be small.

BUT...things like this compliment change in society. Good or bad...well, that depends .....

How any of you are trying to justify what these sicko's did is disgusting!!!

I for one am proud of the way my country has reacted to this tragic and disgusting murder of an innocent man.

Apart from some vandalism on some mosques which was completely uncalled for and the hate coming from the mouths of retards like Anjem Choudray!

Now compare this to the reaction of some countries to a movie or a cartoon.. enough said!

Idiots are everywhere, may Allah give these people some sanity and respect of human lives

Marco - It looks like a reality show,, isn't it?

Rest In peace..

I'm trying to upload the slain solder's photo but

Qatarliving is acting funny again!

wait a minute! This man just butchered a British solider in broad day light in a South London street carries a knife tarnished in the murdered soldier's blood giving TV interviews pledging for revenge and the that woman just passed by him like she don't give a car!

Now I just think he's mental.

sun,,, Yes you are totally right

Man stupidity could kill more than any mass destruction weapon.

The ignorant person is himself enemy...........how true, Sullie......We should not be worried about "Weapons of mass destruction" .....we should be worried about the "Weapon of self destruction" which in simple language is known as stupidity.

Alex ,,,The ignorant person is himself enemy

We just have to be awake and don't follow the media blindly

Silence and deep pondering of the things that happens... Thinking and further thinking whose really the real enemy is ?...

In present times, Afghanistan & Iraq are of least interest to US & UK.

So now the Americans and British have left Iraq and will leave Afghanistan in 2014 these attacks will stop next year and everyone will go back to peaceful praying?

Are they very sure that they are telling the world everything about their encounters with these terrorists or were there some secret deals involved?

I also want to remind you that Boston bomber were also detained & questioned by FBI at certain point & 'were found harmless'

In my opinion, these low casuality, highly secretive terrorist attacks are designed very carefully to create & facilitate a certain kind of political environment which will be supportive of military action in Muslim countries. And the best part is the investigation in these attacks will find a dead end very soon. I am sure if widows of these, attackers are tracked for say 10 years, we will find them very rich.

sun ,,, MI5 asked Woolwich murder suspect Michael Adebolajo if he wanted to work for them about six months before the killing, a childhood friend has said.

That says a lot

6. Lastly, both have had interaction with agencies like CIA or M5

Now what does that tell you?

Oedipus ,,, Unfortunately yes

That's because of two things

1- The Misleading Media.

2- The Terrorist who are hiding behind Islam.

and finally

"Terrorism has no religion"

Misguided idiot.. where is common sense..I saw his video few days ago..tears came out of my eyes as he is a convert but caught by wrong people...

Please think about following points about both these 'lone wolf attacks' namely Boston marathon & Woolwich

1)All boys were unemployed or financially constrained

2) All were immigrants of war afflicted zone

3) All considered themselves losers and attributed their failure to injustice

4) All had visited (in recent past) countries known to harbor terrorist camps.

5) All have been described to have a complete change of personality in recent past.

6) All are married with young kids.

Michael Adebolajo's Teacher said : " I've taught him love and peace not killing and hatred"

One of his classmates said “He was really intelligent and his parents were desperate for him to do well at school but then he got into smoking weed and also started dealing.”

Another classmate said that Adebolajo, known as “Narn”, and his younger brother Jeremiah, known as “Jell”, “changed quite dramatically” after becoming involved with drugs, “then he started holding knives up to people’s throats, getting their phones etcetera. He’d show us the phones he’d stolen.”

The sad thing is that Islam is now tarnished as a violent ideology but these acts committed in the name of Islam. We all know that not every Muslim is a terrorist but every terrorist these days is more than likely to be a muslim

They spoil something beautiful by making (ignorant) people think that's what Islam is about.

Will Muslim kids always have to defend themselves against the stereotype because of these people who have taken their faith and gone crazy?

Having said that, I believe the Muslim community as a whole must make it self heard, and heard loudly! The sad fact is that right now in the UK it's the extremists' like that sick pakie scumbag what's his name? hmm s Anjum shitty or something like that

! They are outspoken minority while a silent majority watches.’

Isn’t there a responsibility for the majority to step up and do something about this?

And it's always the innocent majority that take the burns every time some dumbas* does something stupid in the name of God.

Brit/Sul: The fact is that apart from some white-Asian or black based riots/fights here and there (Where British young British Muslim boys were involved) , Muslim community in the UK had never known such brutal terrorist attacks until the UK all of a sudden decided to be mean to wage wars in overseas conflicts in countries that never done them any wrong.

Anjem Chaoudhry is a moron. The media needs to ignore him and the security services need to prosecute him for inciting hatred and violence.

These two terrorists were linked to well organized groups headed by hate preachers like Anjem Choudary and Mizanur Rahman. Both confirmed this in well orchestrated statements. Choudary (leader of sharia UK) has been instrumental in setting up similar groups in other Western countries.

back to the topic...looks like a psycho

well said

MN ,,, He and the other attackers !

I also feel this is an isolated incident and should not be taken as a planned terrorist attack. I guess the guys were not members of any groups as such.

Having said that, it's also imperative that conservative and self styled muslim clerics like Abu Qatada and the like should be monitored in their speeches so that idiots like these don't get the wrong picture of Islam and take the wrong direction.

It will lead to attacks against Muslims in Britain by other deranged people.

KK makes a good point. Look at the reverse situation. Print a picture of Mohamed and people around the world riot and die

(We swear by almighty God), who are "WE"?

Please,,,, we are not here to talk about this

Please don't Hijack and if you have anything to say about the above ,,, we are all ears

brit ,,, Yes may he R.I.P

And i wish that son't affect the brotherhood between Muslims and Christians in UK

Can you imagine what reactions we would see if two non-muslims Brits would hack a muslim Brit into pieces ? We would see riots from all over the world.

This is a tragedy for the relations between the Muslim Community and others. Luckily , community leaders have been united in their condemnation of the murder.

This is a perfect example of idiots hijacking religion and brainwashing youngsters to achieve their own objectives.

I have followed this closely and do agree with the Guardian that it should not be regarded as a terrorist attack.

May the young man rest in peace and i hope that the killers rot in hell.