I understand the sensitivity but........
By MattyHardingLower •
The full story is on the BBC website.....
"A British schoolteacher has been arrested in Sudan accused of insulting Islam's Prophet, after she allowed her pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad.
Colleagues of Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, said she made an "innocent mistake" by letting the six and seven-year-olds choose the name.
Ms Gibbons was arrested after several parents made complaints.
The BBC has learned the charge could lead to six months in jail, 40 lashes or a fine
Heck - started a long post and deleted it.
Suffice to say I'm sorry you feel that way - I don't recall saying anything more than I didn't like your chapters on this stage.
I also said I didn't like the comments made by other people with reference to their adherance to some Islamic fundamentalism.
I'm not apologizing for the joke, I'm apologizing for Frogs overdramatic reaction to the joke.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
LOL - I'm sorry but I have a mental picture of you (true I have no idea what you look like but you get my drift) saying that last comment and then sticking your tongue out at me, stomping your feet and screaming "so there" and sitting down to pout.
Anyway - my intent was not to insult you. It's just that you seemed like a decent young person who backed herself into a corner and then dug herself deeper and I was hoping to give you a graceful out by helping you to understand that off color jokes are not appropriate in every setting regardless of your right to freedom of speech.
I see you apologized (in a person who hates to admit they are wrong kind of way lol)on another thread so my work here is down.
Cheers!
with just about ANYTHING....fact of the matter is..she didn't KNOW..plain and simple..
You've made yourself very clear Jauntie. Have a good evening.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
as they say!
It wasn't froggie who made the 'blasphemy' comment in my thread about God and his computer. Frog just said something like it was a bit 'dary' (sic) and in poor taste or something like that.
I've exchanged PMs with him regarding my thoughts on this debacle going on about who is offending who and I think I've probably made myself clear in posts here also ...
Both sides are inflaming the other in different ways.
Find it as hard to believe as you want, but I have an infectious sense of humor. I won't apologize as I did nothing wrong. This isn't a boardroom and these people are clients or businessmen that I work with. I have every right to make a joke.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
Well Gypsy I find that hard to believe and I'm sure anyone who works in a professional setting would find it hard to believe as well but I don't know you. But I can honestly say that if you were working for me - I would fire you not only for your incredible lack of professionalism but for your deliberate intent to offend (because anyone your age and who is educated knows the definition of offensive)and your utter inability to admit that you are wrong. We all make mistakes - but what separates the mature from the childish is the ability to admit that we are wrong and to do our best to remedy it. You went to far - you know it, I know it, everyone on here knows it whether they have the you know whats to admit it or not. You seem like a bright girl - fess up, apologize, and move on.
Actually I can gurantee you 100% that I would. Anyone who knows me knows I would to.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
Well I wouldn't do a standup routine in the boardroom either lol. But what I really want to know is if you feel comfortable enough with "off color" jokes about religions and cultures to let a few rip in a more relaxed business setting in the company of people who are not your friends. The example I'm thinking of is actually something I witnessed although the joke was not nearly as inflammatory as what you wrote. At a business lunch lets say with a group of Qatari men - at the end of lunch conversation turns from business to more relaxed topics. A little bantering takes place, a few jokes are told - would you in that setting say something as off color as your joke about the book and chapters that has generated so much debate?
Well the teacher has been charged with insulting religion, inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs.
Would I get up in the middle of a boardroom in the middle of an important meeting and make jokes, no. Off colour about sex mostly. We were joking about men and women and Arab culture as well. Stuff people with no sense of humor wouldn't get.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
You also mention off color jokes - what is your definition of off color jokes?
ahhh... You just said it depends on the situation so you admit that in certain circumstances those kinds of jokes would not be appropriate?
It honestly depends on the situation Blessed. I sat around a bar in Korea with some Muslim businessmen and we were cracking off colour jokes. If we are sitting around a boardroom cracking jokes and the topic comes up I would more then likely say the exact same stuff.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
I expected that answer although I'm not buying it because we both know any self-respecting company would fire you before the above mentioned muslims could pull the humor sticks from their bums. But good to be consistent with your answers and arguments.
Depending on the situation, more then likely.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
Actually I wasn't referring to joking amongst friends but whether you would put the joke out there, let's say, to table full of muslim business associates? Would you think it appropriate in that setting?
Yes I would have, and did. Showed it to my Muslim coworkers. They thought it was funny. I don't say anything on this site that I wouldn't say in person.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
I have been reading this thread and the other threads and I keep coming back to the same questions.... So much so I had to register on this forum to ask it.
Gypsy - you go on and on about freedom of speech which I understand but my question has to do with how strong is your belief in your freedon of speech and your belief in that no apolgies are necessary because you did nothing wrong?
I'm curious - it is one thing to post in a forum such as this where a handful know you but the vast majority do not but.... would you have stated your joke in person while sitting at a table full of muslims? Looking them in the face while you listed the chapters in your book? If not, what would have held you back? If yes, what do you think the response would have been?
Jauntie considering that Frog was accusing you of blasphemy yesterday I'm surprised to see you jumping on the self righteous train so quickly.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
I have a dusty terrace to christen and need your hose! hehehe
sorry I took out my post so you look like you're talking to a ghost!
I will go and look - I only just got on to QL an hour ago and was lost for choice in a veritable 'rip the flesh off Gypsy' feeding fest! lol
Had what she said been said over a coffee I probably would have laughed, the same way other nationalities and people of different religions laugh about each other in private.
This is a public forum and up to Gypsy what she says and doesn't say. It's her choice.
How ya doin? Word on the street is that you are leaving the hood and moving to a new crib. Let us know when the house warming party is gonna be.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
was still editing post ..
Whenever someone is defending his / her faith and refusing to be insulted he's called "fanatic". I believe whenever we evoke the word extreme we usually put it in Plural form. Guess why ? There are two extremes and ,My belief, both are worse than the other. I'm a very tolerant person who cannot stand ignorance regardless of countries , religions or origins. However, I think that making jokes in an international context such as Ql is delicate task. If only I could believe that was not intentional, I would forget it all. But similar comments were posted and "fumes" proved actually that there is a "fire" inside some people on here. I hope I'm worng.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Gypsy, you do take flak, alot of it but then I would imagine you had plenty of that already in your life, it goes with your outspoken Character........which is admired by alot of people. If you read frogs very first words he said "high esteem" when he talked about you and i know he meant it because he PMed me and told me so.
You actions we will never agree on, probably because I have seen too many terrible things happen in this world in name of free speach.
I too am leaving QL, I have enough of it........
Black Prince I am offended and insulted on this forum on an almost daily basis by things people say, whether personally to me or unintentionally. Comments about the proper attitude, dress code, position, etc of women, comments about homosexuality, religion or the lack of it, personal attacks to me calling me an attention seeker and a who**re and NEVER EVER once have I ever asked anyone to apologize, nor expected it, and have defintely never asked anyone or asked Qatari to delete a comment. So I think that I have been quite obliging to delete my comment and NO I will not act like I am ok with it. It is a serious breach of what I believe in about free speech.
The people on this site have every right to write whatever they want. Whether I like it, agree with it or no. I expect the same treatment to be given to me. I am sorry that Frog misconstrued my joke, but I'm not sorry I made the joke, I thought it was funny. It is not my fault or problem if Frog can't take a joke, I can't take people saying they want to kill homosexuals, but you don't see me causing a big hoo ha do you?
This is exactly why I'm taking a break from QL. I cannot stand all the fanatics that seem to be taking it over, so I'm just going to ignore, rather then start a big hoo haa.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
so, although I like clever-speak fun, this wasn't the place to make those comments.
OK we get the denial of the holocaust, CIA responsible for 9/11 etc on QL and it all gets thrashed out, but a direct bash at the fundamentals of a persons religious beliefs and prayer calls was rude and a little niave to say the least.
Again, sorry, but I thought you went OTT on that one. Usually I find your wit superb! This time it was a bit too close to the bone.
Anyway I read you made your apologies - shame about the addendum though. grrrrrrrrr you naughty girl you!
Gypsy...........its not about saying "what I wrote I applogise for" its about saying "if I UNINTENTIONALLY offended anybody with my jokes sorry wasnt meant just my humour" or are you also a Richard beleiver and believe that Free Speach gives the right to trample over peoples feelings, because what the little I know about you is that you wouldnt accept it from other people gyspy would you?
Is the hardest word to say!!!!!!!!!
[img_assist|nid=14395|title=Smile, life is too short!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=180|height=97]
Chapter titles only Gypsy?
In my head I had the content :)
well for one - and it is sooooooooo funny...
I am not apologizing as I have done nothing wrong. I wrote something, that well maybe not being as funny as I thought, I still had every right to write.
"i'm not hurting anyone, i'm just telling my own truth, and if there is something wrong then maybe there's something wrong with you. why we all gotta look, why we all gotta act the same i say if you're born a lion don't bother trying to act tame." Ani Dif
Nicely put jauntie and I agree.........the really sad thing is that the inability of some people to pass the word sorry over their lips in what ever form......sad
our, very often humourous, Gypsy went a step too far with her 'chapters'. Doesn't mean to say I don't still like the lady, but I personally think it was ill conceived.
Sorry chum. :(
Well Boo Hoo Hoo, cry me a river.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Alexa it seems you and Gypsy have got up on the wrong side of the road.
It does not matter whether you know someone personally or not.
what gypsys has wrote in this forum is what forms the opinion for others not your certificate.
This is not the first time that gypsy has insulted or tried to insult the beliefs of Muslims and then laater signing of saying its only a joke.
As some others have already expressed earlier there is a limit for these kind of jokes(if you call it that way).
THe comments put up by Gypsy has hurt the sentiments of most of the Muslims in this forum( I know a few would not mind it)
Gypsy..........actions speak louder than words...........thankyou
There I deleted my OH SO insulting jokes. I will NEVER EVER make fun of anything again. Thank you for proving my point that people on this site (hell this region of the world) have no sense of humor and are incapable of even slightly laughing at themselves.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
**This post has been deleted as it violates social norms and insults peoples sensitivites. You may all remove the stick from your bum now**
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Happy Now??
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
deleted by me
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Yes I have deep deep hatred for bum wiping. :P Guys it was a joke.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Cornellian,
I really don't think those were innocent jokes. So poisonous and heavily loaded with a deep hatred and lack of respect.She will certainly get herself in troubles, but I wonder if she can really say such things in real life. Hiding behind a computer screen is not that difficult.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
You can make fun of whatever you like Frog. I made jokes about what things look like from an outsiders point of view. If you can't find the humor in some of the things you do, then fine, but other people can. I find humor in lots of things I do, and often think about how my behaviour might look funny to others. Go ahead and get me banned. Hell have me lashed and stoned while you're at it, it would be in keeping with the topic.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Yeah? Well I don't live according to Marhaba magazine. I know u just wanted to make jokes, but u know how sensitive this culture is and we're in a public forum, so people from all backgrounds are here...so although I backup freedom of speech and all, but a little respect goes a long way.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
funny ???? would you consider it funny if I make fun of something you respect ? or ... do you respect nothing ? What you said about Prayer calls and Islamic rituals is a real shame. You should delete your posts and apologize to all QL member . muslims or non-muslims. You're just messing around , and you are not even able to recognize your mistakes. If you keep on posting such offending comments , I'll make sure your posts will be all banned. You're just ruining your reputation, and making enemies around. you may make fun of whatever you want, but keep away please of our religion and its traditions. Your mind is being so narrow lately. You are just critisizing othere, but u're not even able to review your own comments.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Y'day only I have got this forwarded mail in my Inbox stating the three words most difficuilt to say are,
1. I love you
2. I am sorry and
3. Help me please...
Poking fun on others is the most easiest thing in this world....so continue....
[img_assist|nid=52086|title=Life is never boring, but some people choose to be bored.... Boredom is a choice. - Wayne W. Dyer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
I'm acutally poking fun at the whole wipe with the left hand, eat with the right hand thing. It's actually mentioned in the Marhaba magazine. :)
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
What's all this about bathroom etiquette ? :S
What have u guys been hearing??
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
I'm not apologizing for anything. I made so jokes, if you didn't find them funny, fine, not my problem.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Really sad,.......... I think it's high time to hijack this thread. I don't like to see poeple that I like going so far in nonsense. Sometimes, the word "sorry" is so blessing.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Well if you mean did I do it to prove that people have problems laughing at themselves and that people are too sensitive yes, I suppose I did. Honestly I just thought it was fun to poke a little fun at some things people find odd culturally about coming here.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Gypsy, I agree one should laugh at ones self, only you can know in your heart whether you wrote it because you wanted people to laugh or whether maybe you did it for other reasons.
Definately, people should learn to laugh at themselves...but dear, you are making your laughs at others cost...IMHO people at least should not provoke....
[img_assist|nid=52086|title=Life is never boring, but some people choose to be bored.... Boredom is a choice. - Wayne W. Dyer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
I disagree. I think people should learn to laugh at themselves. It would make the world a better place.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
shreeya,
thank you .
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Well, Jackmohan..... I must also explain that why did I have posted 'washing/wiping comment...Gypsy, even I didn't like your comment=> 'Chapter 4: Bathroom etiquett (Yes, Allah even wants you to wash your bums prperly)...seriously not in a good taste. And the after comments on this by Alexa was even offensive. I am not a Muslim, but I always choose to respect other religions by not commenting at least on religious issues. I agree with Fox, jokes should have some limits.
[img_assist|nid=52086|title=Life is never boring, but some people choose to be bored.... Boredom is a choice. - Wayne W. Dyer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
shreeya...what the hell.....wash or wipe on a religious thread?
ROFL
Both articles are excellent....lol....seems like everybody missed it!!!
Well... Gypsy don't make me loose the last parcel of esteem I have for you. I never expected such a joke from you. I actually thought you were someone who's level-headed. I was all the time waiting for your posts because they seem to be worth while reading. Now, I don't know what happened to you, but you seem to put all people in the same basket. We're not the same my dear friend. Mocking our prayer call is not the best idea you've ever come out with. Apologies would end it all.Personally, I would really appreciate it.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Come on, if you don't know what it is it does sound like shouting. Anyway everything can be joked about.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Frog, thank you for the thought, appreciate that and recognized it. It should be on the other thread... my bad!
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People are very inclined to set moral standards for others.
~Elizabeth Drew, The New Yorker, 16 February 1987
Gypsy ,
Joke away my dear. There are things that are not made for jokes. You're really looking for the worstside of us. ha ha ha .
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
It's a joke Frog. You know, Funny Ha Ha.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Oh, not at all. You are very welcome :)_______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
Gypsy,
"Chapter 9: Why the need for all the shouting 5 times a day"
Calling our prayer calls "shoutings" was not a great idea .
with or without gatherings , I think you'll get yourself into serious troubles with such comments. And I just like your posts when they're less offending. Hopefully , not all of Ql members read thoroughly all the posts. You've just lost a great deal of the esteem I had for you.
Blackprince,
I wish more more people would argue the way you did. My Respect man :)
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Perhaps you can do your own research on this Alexa. There's a lot of information available on the internet when you have a good amount of time to devote to it.
I must go now. I'm having dinner with some people from UNICEF and musn't be late.
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Love is the answer...
Well well well... I've been reading the posts on this thread , and I came across some wise comments as well as some really stupid ones. Some people are just jumping on the opportunity to talk once again about Islam and Intolerance Bla Bla Bla. If you had at least the time to read the whole story you would have found out so many important details that could explain that case. The problem was not only with the "naming". It was also about sticking the image of the bear with that statement : My Name is Muhammed . That pic was on all students copybooks, and they brought these at home. So the parents were alerted this way. Now, of course the issue has become more serious and parents informed other parents and the story widely spread. The teacher was no more safe there. You certainly know that there are always extremists everywhere. The case was also too sensitive. The problem about Muhammed Caricatures published in Denmark is still in people's minds. I belive that teacher was really unlucky , and I wish she 'll be safe.
Friendcuddler ,
I just think you're being stupid and impolite towards people on here.
Oryx,
My dear, I hope you can read more about Darfur crisis. BBC is certainly not a non-biased source of information, then we can have a talk:) That issue is too complicated, and I think that inferring that Suddan has no established Gov. is really insulting . I guess Sudanese expatriates here would really be offended :)
Concerning Social gathering,
I really feel sorry that such a thing would stop, but I believe it would be more safe to arrange such groupings in PM. I can understand the ladies worries. But this would not stop us from arguing or having discussions about issues we do not agree on. don't you think so jauntie ?
Gypsy :) I liked your expression : "faux Pas " that's exactly what happened to that poor lady.
Some are Wise ... Some are ...Otherwise
Yes, Alexa, there are many groups working against extremeism. religious groups, non-religious groups, both in 'Muslim' countries and non-Muslim countries.
With regards to being quiet, its always the way that fanatics have the loudest shout. But there are different ways that people the world over are trying to curb this fanaticism.
In many ways, it is successful. Many violent plots have been aborted, many fanatical clerics have lost their jobs. It is an ongoing battle.
I do think that every citizen of the world should play his/her part if they are against this extremeism. Everyone can at the very least join an organisation online and start making a contribution.
I would like to think that it was not only me who woke up this morning and did something to help this woman in jail. I penned a simple letter and sent it to the Sudanese Embassy. Less than half an hours work.
Many dripping taps make a river. _______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
Adey, that sounds plausible. I hope that it is in fact the real situation and that the matter can be resolved soon.
_______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
Just found this on another site posted by a teacher in Sudan who seems to know the personalities involved. It has a ring of truth to it.
"The incident with the teddy bear happened 2 months ago and was settled to the parent's satisfaction within the school at that time.
Not long ago a member of staff set upon a path of revenge for what she considered to be personal mistreatment. It was a member of staff who complained to the police. IT WAS NOT THE PARENTS.
The teacher in question is in jail for her own protection. The school has been closed down by the director (not by anyone else) for the protection of the ex-pat staff.
I have spoken to people who were present when she was taken to the police station and they have told me that she was treated well at that time. She is physically well. I have been told that she has not be charged with any crime.
The teacher has been fired. I do not know what kind of arrangements the school has made in this case but I do know that they treat their staff well and other people who have been fired have been paid to the end of their contracts."
It is also mentioned that the arrested teacher had only been in Sudan for 2 months
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-- Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Quite a lot is being done actually. There are often arrests made after violent acts or before it if the authorities receive credible intelligence in time. In communities work is done especially with the male youth in a effort to curb fundamentalism. Many Imams give sermons about about the dangers of extremeism.
I read a lot about this in Arabic press - newspapers, internet.
And I would say the world is most definitely paying attention to fanaticism and extremeism. Many countries policies and procedures have been updated. Intelligence sharing has increased. I see a global effort. Everyone should and can play a part. There are organisations one can join online to promote human rights, peace,etc.
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Love is the answer...
Yes, Black Prince, it is a concern. From within the Muslim community work is constantly being done to counteract and try to stop at grass roots level the breeding of fundamentalism. It is an eternal struggle as we have seen through history with different people and different faiths.
I've just been reading an article on the anti-abortion movement in the US which is predominantly run and funded by the Christian right-wing fundamentalists. These zealots will murder doctors (or family members of) who perform abortions. Some women have to travel thousands of miles to get an abortion and have to put up with the anti-abortion lobby on the way in calling them murderers and the like. Sheesh.
How anyone like that can believe they are pious, peaceful loving Christian people?
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Love is the answer...
I DO understand and I know there are extremists, fundamentalists, zealots and whatever in all religions, nationalities, politicians and all areas of life generally. Thank God they are in a minority or society impload on itself!
I'm just glad that the likes of you (plural) and me aren't made that way and respect each other for ourselves.
Now I feel all full of love for the world and my fellowman - much more like the old 'me' :D
Thanks gals!
xx
My God is a God of peace, love and forgiveness.
Oh yes, I've had the PMs telling me I'm a disgrace to Islam but really I can just brush that aside because I know that I am a great advert for Islam.
I'm a peace-loving, non-violent humanitarian. I believe that this is what my Creator meant me, and everyone, to be. _______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
DG, the only concern I have is that, the radicals within the Muslim faith will not and cannot be contained or removed by non Muslims, it doesnt work. Only the Muslim faith can sort its problems out, change can only come from inside, the question I ask is how will they do it. What can be done about the problem of radicals when they spread fear and retribution within their very own communities. It concerms me and wondered what if any people outside the Muslim community/faith can do to help.
For all concerned washers or wipers...Please go thru it....just for your info :)
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1973652.cms
http://bhanoo.blogspot.com/2004/09/wash-or-wipe-squat-or-sit.html
[img_assist|nid=43195|title=Save Water Save Life!!!!!!!|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=120]
you must be from up north jauntie! (im from yorkshire myself!)
Anyway, dont think anyone hates islam, but i disagree with anyone who can attempt to justify beating women, stoning people, lashing women who get gand-raped, and then pray to God 5 times a day. The God i worship is a God of love and forgiveness - not of cruel and unjustified vindication.
Anyway, Alexa - liked your last post - made a lot of sense. Nothing riles me more than using religion to justify henious crimes, as if the very mention of religion takes us outside the realm of responsibility and rational thought - surely that cannot and should not be the case...?
Anyway, I'm no hater - Im a player all the way...
But Jauntie, it's the same with any kind of zealous and fanatic person. Their opinions and beliefs are extreme. If you are a Christian, would you let the right-wing fundamentalists put you off your faith? I, as a Muslima, don't let the fundamentalists put me off Islam.
I'm seriously turned off of the people but not the religion.
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Love is the answer...
Going to get involved in more pleasurable pursuits - like cooking and eating!
Stay safe all and, above everything else, Salaam !
I've never hated ANYONE, let alone just because of their beliefs, but the way some Muslims speak on this forum HAS made me wonder WHAT I think about Islam. Although not enough to hate anyone.
When I first became a member of QL I had a very open mind and, in fact, come from an area in the UK with a HUGE Muslim community and we all get along just fine.
It's only here, on this forum, that I've encountered comments which have truly bothered me and pushed me to believe there ARE some Muslims who I wouldn't trust and who would rather see me lashed (or worse) because I don't hold the same 'extreme' beliefs as them. It may only be a small minority, but it's enough to unsettle me.
Medo, I think you are wrong, I think instead of hate you should use "dont understand"
Dont judge everybody by a few, lets not forget there are people who beleive in no religion at all so they belittle all relgions not just Islam.
I belive we can change the topic to be anti Islam
at all i know who there are many ppl here in qatar live and hate the islam and make joking for the islam
Richard............I dont........but then again Im not American...........so I dont count
Sad to say.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
PM to be honest there are people who are provocative in their nature, it is not a deliberate it is the way they are. This provocation is taken by some and not by others, some ignore it, others react. We must never forget we are all mirrors of other peoples emotions, we relect what is shown to us. When a subject is sensetive, as the subject of religion is, then peoples sensetivety is highten and they react quickly and sometimes without thinking.
I wish more people would look at what they write before they send it, look at what people see they have written, not what they think they have written. It is always the same, an unguarded remark, most times not meant to provokes, provokes an angry answer and off we go. We must start to communicate, not provoke and then shout Foul when we get the answer we have asked for. For sure there are people out there that want to fight, dont want to listen, dont want to learn or become wiser, they know it all and are always right in their beleifs and they exist on both sides of the fence.
What do Americans look like?
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
PM when I get to Qatar I we can met and I will tell you all about it, if you so wish. I do not want to write about it as if I do I will re-live it in my words and when my emotions come out about it I do not wish to be alone..........the scars of it I still carry and always will.
is the French half! :P
Only about 4, or 5, Muslims posted on this thread and 3 of them spoke with the voice of reason (DG, PM and Corne) and were as appalled as the rest of us about this ridiculous situation in Khartoum. (I didn't go back and count heads, so don't slam me for getting the numbers wrong!)
richard, you know sometimes you make so much sense I have to doubt your claim to be a US citizen! :P
No not..............but we have lived with it through out the centuries and I dont see anything changing, quite the opposite, there are more fanatics and the SM is even more silent than ever
Alexa, the trouble is its the nature of the beast, the "Silent Majority" is so called because it is silent and only in extreme cases where to be honest its normally too late, it raises its head and wonders whats going on...........in total amazement.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
This is what I was referring to when I mentioned that small vocal minority who hide behind a mask of Islam in order to spread their vitriol. This does not work both ways. They can give the insults but they cannot take any criticism. Fortunately, we have a majority of muslims on this site who are not like them and do not support their cr*p.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
Alexa, I know, contary to rumour I am also human and have feelings, I am, to my great regret, one of the few westerners that have had to witness a stoning..........I hope to God that you or nobody else never, never has to see such things............so I find nothing funny in it. While it is easy to hit back, its more difficult to not.........and those who do not are stronger because of it.
as do 4 left turns...
round peg has a tough time fitting into a square hole
birds of a feather flock together..
lie down with dogs, get up with fleas...
and my personal favorite...its as quiet as a mouse peeing on cotton...
Oh Blah people. Sorry for putting your panties in a twist, I won't ever write anything remotely amusing ever ever again.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Alexa we have a phrase in England "two wrongs dont make a right"
If some of the posts that have come from some of the regular memebers
in this forum regarding the Muslims or their beliefs i doesnt surprise that they get hate PMs or what not.
JEEZ His husband!!! Hell that's Chapter 13: Why man on man action is not encouraged (but very very common) :P
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
I'm assuming you'd have to stone them both since they'd be homosexuals..or perhaps one is a cross dresser...
Oh well, I'm having a laugh. :D
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Red Pope, according to Chapters 3 and 6, yes they should both be stoned, him with medium sized (no bigger then 6 inchs across) pieces of granite (in a pinch concrete will do) and her with large (15+ inch) marble slabs.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Gypsy.......there is no difference to those who react insultingly and those who provoke it deliberately.........both are guilty of lack respect and intolerance.
My neighbor name is Muhammad and his wife looks and acts like a teddy bear who is in need of lots of cuddle. :*
Should I stone, whip or fine his husband for carrying that name?
My Confession Booth is Open for those lovely and cuddles teddy bears.....
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
Richard, agree with you 100% and I think also this thread is going the "usual" way, we have got into the religion thing again, where to be honest both sides are sticking the knife in again.
Gypsy sorry your way is not respected so talk to your self
i will not answer on that shit
may be your perent just forget to teach you how to be polite
read 1st what is gypsy said i copied here again:
Chapter 4: Bathroom Etiqutte (Yes Allah even wants you to wipe your bum properly)
I guess you will sell your book now that you are living the country? Are u going to post it on Ebay?
Can I make a copy before you sell it?
:)
There have been some stupid and offensive comments on this thread and I am sorry but not surprised to hear about Gypsy's experience at Orion. But Lets put this in context.
I know or have met many of you from QL including Alexa, Gypsy, Jauntie, Scarlett, Azi, Jax, Red Pope, Charan, Vasquez and a lot more. I also know quite a few Qataris both socially and through work and even through QL. I have no problem whatsoever with Qataris or Arabs in general. I love the Qataris sense of humor and have never had a bad experience with a Qatari (except on the road). I won't say I like Arabs because that is an asinine thing to say. Its like saying I like life, its meaningless. What I mean is that some Arabs are jerks like anyone else and can make life unpleasant. What is really intolerable is when that tiny minority abuse their religion, let down their fellow muslims and use imagined and ridiculous sensitivities as excuses to subject us to their hatred.
These people give muslims a bad name everywhere and I would argue that they are not true muslims anymore than Christian racist fundamentalists are true christians. Its just a shame that these people can hide behind Islam.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
Medo, there was nothing wrong with your post or your point but did you have to write the last sentance..........it destroyed your arguement and was really not needed............I feel an appology would be called for............for your credibilty if for nothing else
it is so rude from you, nothing more
to get a night out on the town??? Well, that's ONE way to diet..so..ok, let me see..lose weight, waiting on Bp to arrive and take us out to dinner...ok its a win/win situation...you're ON!! You may have Jasper back...but would you mind scooping up what he left behind???
joke as you want
for the muslim the Islam is not only reilign it is was to live
and Yes God tell us which attitude we should have it in eating, driving, play games and respect the other ... evrything as well as how to pray
Islam didn't mean pray and do what ever you want after that
and I am happy with that as million of muslims are happy too
and it is big different between the really Islam and what is the some muslims do now,
if someone want to come to our country he should respect us and accept what ever we do, it is the democracy
we can't have different law for each one he want to visit us
if you don't like it is up to u so easly,
go back to your nice country and don't wipe your bum
Scarlett.........upon the rising of the next full moon in the heavenly sky, I shall ride to thee and all the fair maidens of that desert land and take thee all to the pleasures of wine and dine...........thats of course if you let me have Jasper back!!!!!
you aren't leaving that fast..you know I can't stand to see you down that low...get thee back up(take off that helmet tho..can't see you for the visor!) and come taketh us ladies away from this dark place...hither and yon..
and if you are a good boy then you MIGHT get your horse back but no naming him..um...you know..
and i dont mean to be rude, but im sure this will offend a lot of people. Arab people talking about adjusting is slightly hypocritical when you see them on holidays, or even those who have relocated. What about muslims refusing to sell alcohol, doctors refusing to look at females - doesnt sound very compromising to me. Should we stop anyone who doesnt binge drink, smokes drugs, eat junk food and sleep around from visiting britain if they dont want to do as we do?!?!?
(of course i do none of those things. well i do like a mcflurry every so often!)
Can I borrow your book, am a cheap western LOL.
Am interest in Chapter #1 and #2.
Only five of them? maybe the rest comes in Volume 2 to 99 LOL.
Scarlett..........broken my heart, to think such things of a noble Prince whos love of thee is boundless ( wiping a tear from his eye), I shall, with head held low upon my breast( damn Helmet too heavy)leave now and ride into the lost and dark day ( where did I put that damn horse)
I'm sure most of the expats have been through training to deal with the situations that might arise over here in the ME...sensitivity trainings..but...there is NO WAY you can train for every single incident that MIGHT occur...The mindsets on a lot of things are totally different in other cultures..such as what we think is blasphemous and what is just joking.
This incident was handled very poorly by the officials...
Medo.....................I never said you were Anti west or even intimated it.............you are interpreting a meaning into something which wasnt there............you dont do that often do you?
Yes its sad, but I have made friends here with a lot of nationalities, but the locals are very hard. So I decided to stop trying to be friendly with them. just ignore them and simple the problem or future problem are gone. Voila.
oopsss what's that, I broke the guidelines again? ^(0)(0)^
___________________________________________________________
People are very inclined to set moral standards for others.
~Elizabeth Drew, The New Yorker, 16 February 1987
stones hidden behind his armor...lure us in with beautiful poetry and then WHAM!!! Take THAT for thinking the teacher might have made a mistake when we all KNOW she had evil intentions the whole time!!!
Who knows what evil lurks behind that helmet..only THE SHADOW knows!!!
This is one of the reason I wouldn't dare to join in any social gathering from people online. I like to surf, chat and join online public forum just to ease the boredom sometimes but I have a life and I have lots of friends in real world so I guess am lucky in that sense that I don't really need to meet up with anybody from board to have a healthy social life.
I read about that thread Jauntie and it could be no way as Blasphemy and to me this is blasphemy:
John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER!
___________________________________________________________
People are very inclined to set moral standards for others.
~Elizabeth Drew, The New Yorker, 16 February 1987
i am not Anti west or anti anybody
i traveled to many places and each time i do my best to respect the other,
and always when i read news from any arabic or nonarabic media i try to use my mind not take it as facts
then they should wear it..
pt...I NEVER overlooked the teddy...I think he was made in the place where all bad things are created...an evil doer if I ever saw one..
trying to infiltrate and insinuate himself into our affections, only to turn us in for flirting with him?
Should the Muslim countries have to edit a Muslim handbook, guidelines or just a simple Muslim for dummies. Without disrespect anyone, but they need a lot of expats, without expats Qatar will be nothing. and I believe some of the other countries too. So why not printout a basic rules for all non Muslim people in the country, or in the others countries??? It is that hard to be a little creative without bringing a marketing company from uk or usa to develop something simple.
As I see the people are very but extremely sensitive in some small cases that in my point of view from outside you can realize thats a simple mistake.
Well Im sorry for all those rude men for impositioning the lovely young ladies...perhaps they need to meet a real gentleman..such as myself.
jokes
Im bored - sorry for that!
Richard, i think your right, there is something dodgy about that woman. Perhaps she is Danish, and working for the BBC - something fishy going on.
But everyone seems to be overlooking the teddy himself - he sounds just as suspicious a character to me...
Another great argument - "if the children decided to kill one of the others, would the teacher let them?" of course - did u not know that that is how democracy works??!?
Please try talking sense
You make it sound like a FART! hahahahaha
Which reminds me, I better go and boil some eggs for my salad this evening :P
Scarlett, Gypsy, Jauntie, Alexa, DG just some praise for you to see that you are admired, respected and above all loved
Not with more Glories, in th' Ethereal Plain,
The Sun first rises o'er the purpled Main,
Than issuing forth, the Rival of his Beams
Launch'd on the Bosom of the Silver Thames.
Fair Nymphs, and well-drest Youths around her shone,
But ev'ry Eye was fix'd on her alone.
On her white Breast a sparkling Cross she wore,
Which Jews might kiss, and Infidels adore.
Her lively Looks a sprightly Mind disclose,
Quick as her Eyes, and as unfix'd as those:
Favours to none, to all she Smiles extends,
Oft she rejects, but never once offends.
Bright as the Sun, her Eyes the Gazers strike,
And, like the Sun, they shine on all alike.
Yet graceful Ease, and Sweetness void of Pride,
Might hide her Faults, if Belles had Faults to hide:
If to her share some Female Errors fall,
Look on her Face, and you'll forget 'em all.
one thing I have come to learn..is that if someone wants to infiltrate another group, they will do their darndest to blend in..not stand out like a sore thumb...so that rule won't always work...at least with some of these hate mongers, we know where they stand. Its the silent but deadly ones that are dangerous.
you're gonna drop it on your own foot...
She must be stoned to death in Alathiya market on a Friday after prayers.
Ok Jauntie that means Im Ok, got 500+ points and have been hanging around here for weeks.............the only thing is the damn armour makes a noise when I sit down, have oiled it but didnt help, oh and my horse is not house trained.....havent had the time
ruling, before she would allow anyone to join the Social Group or attend social gathering. It gave time to suss out the personality behind the avatar and, maybe, their motivation for joining 'in'.
For sure Scarlett, meetings will still take place but new people will be carefully scrutinised.............shame as every new person I have met brings something into my life and enriches it
sad tho...I really DO enjoy getting to meet new people...but not everyone has good intentions...
Oh I will defintely continue to see the people I've met, just no to new people. :P
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
we will still continue to have friendships with those that we have gotten to know, even from here. If anything, it might even make people MORE determined to get to know the "other" side...I know it has made me...gets my dander up to see things like this happen to good people..
they believe in the mushroom syndrome when it comes to allowing any of their fellow followers to have open minds. I'm sure I don't have to give details of the 'mushroom syndrome' ...
Jauntie, and the sad thing is these people have acheived their aim, they have put fear and worry into us and will stop the communication and interaction between us and Muslims...........as this is not in their interest.
I have to agree with you Gypsy, Alexa, Oryx, Jauntie and Pm...guess times have come to stop having the public invites for nights out...shame tho...just a few people with negative attitudes can stop so many nice people from coming together to talk and get to know each other's nationalities AND religions...
Gypsy..I do so apologize for those that couldn't take no for an answer..had I known you were having problems I would have yanked them outside by their ears right then and there, told the door guy to KEEP them out due to harrassing one of their clients.
To those of you that enjoyed our public nights out..you can thank those that have created such a problem for everyone with their attitudes, narrowmindedness and hatred for others.
the one who wanted to know, and was doing a survey for a school project on, why ex-pats seemed to be nervous of fraternising with or speaking with the locals.
Although, having said that I really don't fell it's the Qatari I need fear - it's 'the others!' muhahahahaha
Medo, the one thing I can agree with you is your last sentance "whatever you heard or read it is not always the truth" just remember that next time when your read articles written by Anti west media.............if you do you will become wiser.
I think richard is right...ITS ALL A PLOT!!! Obviously the USA has control of the situation, even tho its a British teacher and goodness only knows WHERE the teddy Bear was made......
lions and tigers and bears..oh MYYYY!!!!
I agree with Jauntie, Alexa and PM about not wanting to attend QL organized events anymore (Which is why I didn't argue about Xena retiring) but I've gotten several Shut your mouth type PM's and after one of the Orions evenings that Scarlett organized just one to many guys who won't take sorry I'm not interested as an answer.
Fact of the matter is, this is a public forum and we have no way of knowing what kind of person will show up at a social evening and who they've reported what we've said to.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=187001&version=1&template_id=37&parent_id=17
A couple of paragraphs pasted below:
KHARTOUM: A British primary school teacher has been arrested in Sudan, accused of insulting Islam’s Prophet by letting her class of seven-year-olds name a teddy bear Mohamed, her school said yesterday.
Police arrested Gillian Gibbons, 54 of Liverpool, on Sunday at her home inside the Unity High School premises after a number of parents complained to Sudan’s ministry of education, said Unity director Robert Boulos...
...Boulos said he had decided to close down the school until January for fear of reprisals. “This is a very sensitive issue.”
Earlier Gibbons’ colleagues said they feared for her safety after receiving reports that young men had started gathering outside the Khartoum police station where she was being held. But a Reuters witness at the police station said no one was gathering there.
Boulos said Gibbons was following a British National Curriculum course designed to teach young pupils about animals and their habitats. This year’s animal was the bear. – Reuters
How can you be so naive. This story is a fabrication of the western press sponsored by the CIA, the BBC and George W Bush.
The real truth is that this so called female teacher is in fact a male Danish cartoonist in disguise. He was involved in an elaborate plot to humiliate and insult muslims. He was put into place by a BBC agent and a CIA journalist who is a cousin of George W Bush.
Stop being so naive and wake up and smell the coffee.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
It's a sorry situation altogether. The teacher has done nothing wrong. I, for one, do not feel insulted because her pupils chose to call a teddy bear Mohammad. My young children are always playing with toys and giving them names...Mohammed being amongst them as they have cousins with that name and hear it frequently.
I don't see why the teacher SHOULD have known that she shouldn't have done that.
This is the case of an extreme reaction to an innocent activity.
_______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
I will give you clear example about BBC
few years ago they have at the arabic service news the following information:
The egyptian presedent promoted the Egyptian ministry of the defence as vise presedent, that minister has been considered the friend of USA in Egypt
after few hours but in same day, BBC has another story
The egyptian presedent fired the Egyptian ministry of the defence, and he gave him civil position as presedent's assistant, that minister made alot of trouble for the USA government
you see that the only msg will come to you, that Egyptian presedent take his orders from USA or atleast he want to make USA happy,
so belive me whatever you heard or read it is not always the truth
I wonder sometimes if some Muslim countries are freighten of their own Muslim fundamentalists who live in their country. It would appear that some countries would rather do some things like with this teacher than stand up to some of their faithful brothers and say no, we wont do what you want. They seemed so scared that they will branded unbeleivers, and they country overthrown and run on a Fundamentalist base. The majority of Muslims lead a peaceful live in co existance with others, its just the fanatics in this world are louder and heartless and are willing to resort to any means to acheive their aims.......the end justifies the means......
In the end I am sure some goverments are willing to appease some fanatics with some small jestures of Drum Beating, to acheive some security within their country
over what a teacher does or doesn't do. Your theory falls short on that issue...no way would a headmaster let a teacher continue to do what she did if it upset so many parents.
I can't think of any teacher who would purposely disrespect a religion of her students...Your example of what if the children decided to kill someone, or the drug issues...come on man..get real...i think you are wayyy off base here.
Prepared??? when you get your Sudanese visa... they dont' issue a
'naming the teddy bear' warning.
sudan is a great country to visit - i really enjoyed all the archeological sites. :)
GATHERINGS
I agree about QL gatherings and that is why I decided after summer hols not to go to any....
I dont want to be identified by the insaner members here.
Just because I dont' advocatElashing and stoning and indulge in satire I could be perceived as a blasphemer.
I dont need the hassle.
Nice line of reasoning that you use and a well thought out argument. The problem is you are trying to reason with people who have no reason, who suffer from paranoia and who believe that the whole world conspires against them.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
ok seperate issue, slightly... Medo - she never let the kids teach themselves democracy, how could she have... She opened a vote and they voted...
Seriously, this is stupid... I saw this break on BBC yesterday and thought of opening a thread on it but just new it would, as it always does on QL, turn into a racisim conversation/debate.
I wanted to point out that it's small misunderstandings that lead to massive problems and if anyone had bothered to explain it I am sure this wouldn't have blown out of all context. I honestly believe that if taken to one side told of this problem she would have respected it and changed it. I find it hard to believe she stood there and went "no i flatly refuse to change the name - lump it!"
Well the truth will out I'm sure this issue wont go away - for now, thats me out of this thread.... Peace out!
Prepared for WHAT?!?!?! How can you say she should have been prepare for such a ridiculous issue?!?!?!
Also, medo, I find it quite difficult to follow your argument, but I will give it a try! Im pretty sure the judge is yet to rule on the case, but she has been arrested for it. Any news agency could have reported it, in fact i first saw it on sky news, but whoever started this thread read it on BBC. And like someone said earlier, the world service was a massive lifeline for many different peoples when it was established. please dont be so narrowminded to think that a news agency would lie for a racist agenda. And they only reported what certain governments said about Saddam, so please get your facts straight. They also went to the trouble to try and uncover the truth - remember the David Kelly tragedy?
The whole Bad/Bed thing is lost on me. Really do not understand what youa re trying to say here. She was their teacher, but they chose the name. Full stop.
Plus, why didnt they just choose a good name - no offence but Muhammed is not a great name for a teddy bear anyway! And look at the trouble is has caused.
i think some people just have an extra part of their brain that eitehr does or doesnt work, which makes them this sensitive to things, and bring up "racism!!!!" at every turn - I certainly do not, and cannot comprehend those that do. Think its ridiculous in this day and age to be honest...
tolerance and understanding..teach each other what is acceptable and not acceptable in a respectful manner...Countries and religions will never know EVERYTHING there is about each other, just what is taught to them...so bear that in mind when people make mistakes...and don't throw everything you have at them when they mess up. And yes..that goes in BOTH directions...
I agree with you Kellyb she should learn them the democracy not let thwm do it by themself and she should control that she was there to do that,
again i belive the families didn't call teh police direct and for sure they talk to this teacher and explain to her
but may be she insist on her opinion that is why they call the police
i think it is make sense for me
In the end, all this shows is what has been happening in ME over the last 10 years, there is a lack of tolerance of Muslim countries towards any foreigner that makes even the smallest mistake. The days years ago when things like this were just ignored are gone, all simple stupid things that happen are blown up, distorted and used for some diplomatic or religious purpose, or just to cause trouble.
Shame..........that people jsut cant live with each other, accept the other, accept their rights and that mastakes happen.....whatever happened to respect and understanding for each other.........are they only to be found in the dictionary and nowhere else.
how can anyone who isn't a Muslim know EVERYTHING there is to the intricacies of the religion??? How can they know what is sensitive and what is not..its like Pm said.....I mean there are the basics but that certainly isn't one of the ones I knew about...
There has to be SOME leeway in how to approach issues that are like this without throwing someone in jail...for ignorance in certain religious matters.
it was an honest mistake...HOW can anyone in their right minds put someone in jail, with the possibility of 40 lashes and/or a fine, if she made a MISTAKE...If you are going for that theory...why did the children not tell her it was bad to name a stuffed animal, Muhammed???
Whatever you think Medo. Am in no position to comment on what is right and wrong and that wasn't my point.
I just hope common sense prevails.
she also can teach them the value of the religins and respecting or icons
and which democracy you are talking about
let us say if the children decide for any reason to kill one of them and all of them them agreed on that one, so she will let them do that
or if they want to try to have drugs and all of them agreed she will let them do that and she will bring drugs for them and teach them how to take it, or may be they want to burn the class she will bring match box and give it to them
in that age we should teach our children the democracy but we should learn them what is write and what is wrong 1st
I really dont think this is an issue of respecting cultures. I really believe this was a misunderstanding. An educated intelligent woman who is working in a rather unstable environment was teaching children the value of democracy - no bad thing!
The fact that they chose Muhammed was possibly irrelevent and a name that children of that age hear again and again and will repeat wen asked to.My first pet was a goldfish who I insisted in calling Joey, heh go figure!Kids are kids and will always be...
I think the issue here is an over-reaction... I hope the British Consulate are sorting this out and get her out of jail by the end fo the day without reprisal. I do however, understand why a cartoon depicting muhammed was wrong. Surely it's the muslim way to forgive? I have no doubt that this is a minority and i am not tarring every muslim with the same brush.
A word for the BBC... I see them as impartial. If you look closely a lot of their information is credited to news agencies like Al-Jazeera and Reuters. They are funded by the British Public so they have a duty to report the truth.
My dear you belive that the parents of the students didn't call the teacher and tell her about that unaccepted attitude
when i have problem for my son at the school no way to call the police 1st, and for sure i will go to the school and speak to his teacher and the manger also and in case if she insist on her opinion i will go to the minestry of education or the police and complain in this case
so don't be naivaty like that
but for sure BBC want to brife the story , thay want to send msg. just that the Islam how is bad relign so they will say the half of the truth only
about the comments regarding to stone the children when your son if u have stool something from you, you will put him at jail for 3 years or you will teach him that is bad attidue
a common arabic name but also a name revered by Muslims.
Why cant you at least understand that?
What I meant is she should have been prepared for the cultural sensitivites.
With all the recent furor in different countries regarding certain issues she should have been prepared.
after being called out as a blasphemer on my thread yesterday, I feel very reticent to go to any more social gatherings with QLers in case some banana brain decides to turn me in to the authorities if they know who I am.
and NO I don't think I'm being silly - I find all of this and some of the comments made by people here to be very frightening!
pt1985 hahahahhah, who isane here
you belive that is that true story fromyes why not it is like the beologic bomb for Mr. sadam hussain no body can find it, and how many ppl killed in iraq because of that lie,
at all me and you wasn't there and the government arrested her it means she violated the law
why you belive the BBC and don't belive the judge who was investigated the case
at all, so if you are teacher and u ask your students to wrote BED but they wrote it BAD by mistake, so you will not coerect that, and you will say what i do they are call bed as bad so you are useless in that case, it is her job to lead them and learn them
they like the name and the toy also, so they think that they can call the toy but that name of for Icon of the islam like name og GOD you can let your children call you Dog as GOD
Gypsy, no theres no book, when I first started to work in this world ( over 30 years ago) an old expat told me, there aint a rule book for every country, when you go there, stay quiet, listen and if you dont understand something then ask, but remember one thing, its not home, what goes at home dont sometimes go elsewhere.
I thought it was amusing because it was so ridiculous and was a story about God using a computer to rule the world.
Someone on that thread accused me of blasphemy!
Imagine the shivers which went up my spine when I heard the news about the lady in The Sudan.
sheesh
Technically the children should be the ones to be stoned since A) They named the bear and B) It's their religion so they knew better.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
but then again he shouldn't have been smoking that stuff anyway...
Seriously...I had no idea it was haram to name a stuffed animal after a prophet..I wouldn't have an issue with a stuffed bear names Jesus or God...It would be rather an honor that the children thought that much about their religious figure to name it such. Why couldn't the parents just have gone to the head master and asked that he tell the teacher to rename the bear, and explain why, so it didn't happen again...would that so difficult???Or is that too logical...
Oh Gypsy, there are a bunch of reasons other than the teddy bear u should be stoned for :P
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong - Garfield
Dont tell people that this shows a lack of respect! What about the respect for darfur???? It is so out of proportion...
How many people have been put in prison in Sudan for crimes in Darfur today?
How many over a teddy bears name?
I spent two weeks in Sudan and I didn't know it was illegal to call a Teddy Mohamed.
Can I call all Mohameds I know 'teddy bear'?
The other countries listed : France Qatar Korea etc... have established governments.....you can't really compare
Oh and the BBC is wonderful and globally respected. The world service radio is a lifeline in times of trouble for many places. Dont like it dont watch it/listen to it.
and what would the muslim countries do without expat workers. Another issue I know, but dont talk about other people being naive - if you took away all the non-muslims in Qatar, what would you be left with? Well you could forget your 4 seasons, ur ritz carlton, ur city centre, your aspire - the list is endless...
Compromise my dear watson
I had no idea till today I couldn't name a teddy bear Muhammed. Does that mean I should be stoned. :S
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Corn..........the lady was naive, anybody who knows anything about a Muslim country and the basic beliefs would not seriously consider calling a teddybear Muhammad. Of course her possible punishment is way over the top, if the Sudanese have a problem with it then she should be expelled her from Sudan, end of problem.
As for a country being lenient and understanding, my view is quite clear, a country can but it would appear that a certain religion cannot, you must accept that as a fact and behave accordingly. If you cant tghen dont go to a Muslim country......you will only have problems
Far worse things are happening in Sudan, and they chose to concentrate on THIS ??
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
its a bit harsh i think! bit like the scene in Life of Brian" "all i said was that piece of halibut was good enough for Jehova!"lucking she not getting stoned to death
Black Prince, I agree with respecting cultural sensitivties, but the fact of the matter is when you walk into a country as an expatriate you are not handed a book entitled "Our culture issues" Even through research can't prepare you for everything. My guess is this poor teacher had no idea that she was making a faux pas, and that should be taken into consideration by the courts in Sudan. After all it's not like she murdered someone or commited a grave crime. She made a cultural faux pas.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
It's not like she did that deliberately, I'm sure if the teacher had known of their sensitivities she wouldn't have let the kids name him. But it was an honest mistake, geez where's their mercy and understanding ? Yes as expats we need to be sensitive towards the hosting country but if the country wants expats it also has to be lenient and understanding.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Haha - Medo, think ur slightly insane mate.
How can you say that the teacher should have respected cultural differences. She was teaching kids, they got a teddy bear and then she let them name it. They chose a name, which is a very common arabic name, and then she got arrested. Right, thats how they do things in Sudan, so you have to respect it like George Washington said. I dont think so! If we respected every nation, even when they were doing wrong, then civilisation would never advance. Oh they are still trading slaves, but we have to respect their culture. Once again - I don't think so!
Poor woman - shame on those authorities. I cannot believe what goes on in some places. And then people argue for it on such stupid grounds.
The bbc is not a good news network because its british, its just a good news nework - and they don't lie. Plus coverage of the story is on sky and im sure it will be on al jazeera too.
Gypsy, you have hit the nail on the head, where you come from its not a problem but in Sudan it is. That we think that this whole episode is unfair and scandalous is due to the view we put on it with our background and traditions we have been brought up with. It is a fact that what we see as normal, for others is abnormal and vice versa, yes in Canada, Europe and most other parts of the world, what you call a teddybear is not a problem and as you say in our culture such things are taken as a compliment but we are talking about Sudan and its view on things.
Living in a foreign country can be a tricky business and one has to be sensetive to that countries laws, rules, traditions, they may seem rediculous and unfair but it is there country after all. I am not saying we should put up with injustices that are too often apparant in some countries but we must be aware of some things which can be imflamortary and cause problems. It is upto me to come to terms with the conditions within country I am working, I do not have to accept them just realise they are there and be sensetive to them.
To understand the other cultural or not it is another issue, me also i can't understand how gays and lesbian marries in some country when i visit it, also i didn't like the frensh when they eat the frogs or the korean when they eat the dogs, or why to call someone negro is bad word in Amirca
but i respect that even i didn't like that or sharing or undertanding
but if u choose to live in another country u should respect the cultural and religin and ofcourse the law
i can't change ppl to be like what i like or i want
that is why we are different
Well cultural differences, where I'm from to name someone or something after another person is a very very high form of honour. I don't see how anyone anywhere can think it would be insulting to call a teddy bear Mohammed. It's a form of flattery.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
1st i don't think that is the full story
but ofcourse BBC never lie it is from UK and the english pll never never lie
at all if the government arrested her that is becuase she violated the law, whatever it is ,
when i was in france, uae, Qatar i respected the laws there, i didn't try to change or to disscuse it because the local ppl who made that and any visitor should follow that
so if the parents of the children complain and the government is arrested her so it means it is the law and she should respected
also to call some toyes r animals in the name of prophets or important ppl i belive it is very bad attitude
it is like to call God Christ, or whatever
For gypsy to call your cat Muhammad it is up to u ofcouse since there are no law here forbid that ,
also to respect the relign of the others or not,it is up to u
but i rememebr that George Washinton said the nation who respect the other is the only respected nations
so you can chose which person u r, again it is george washinton and he wasn't muslim
Always better to do something than nothing...Amnesty International have lots of ideas for people to help on human rights issues around the world. You can make a diffrence even from the comfort of your own home through your computer. I encourage everyone to join which you can do online.
www.amnesty.org
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Love is the answer...
Yes, of course Alexa.
I have written to the Sudanese government this morning and it is currently being delivered to the Sudanese Embassy here in Geneva where I am currently working.
Hope others will do the same and send to the Embassy in Doha. _______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
The Sudanese government ought to be examining their consciences and stopping the slaughtering of their own people in Darfur in the genocidal manner they are currently doing, rather than picking on teachers and teddy bears called Mohammed. what utter nonsense.
The poor teacher must be worried sick. _______________________________________________________
Love is the answer...
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Love is the answer...
So is it poor form if I call the stray cat we feed Mohammed :S
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Ah......I know lots of people named Muhammed, why aren't their parents lashed?
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
what if there're 100 prophets ?
The powers that be in Sudan have little concept of justice and just seem to operate in the most corrupt manner for their own interests which is a real shame because Sudanis are such decent people.
Anyway they are busy selling themesleves to the Chinese - so in a few years time it will be gulags and not lashes.
I Wonder why they don't lock the kids and give em 40 lashes too! as they were the ones that choose the name.
So my point again, those guys are so weak that only choose womans for their sick game of justice.
Theres no justice in this case.
I see this as a smoke screen by the Sudani authorities to deflect international attention away from about a million other issues it should be concentrating on.
this lady was teaching kids about voting and democracy...
The kiddies named the bear not the teacher.
Kelly B - i have wondered the same thing as you.
I hope common sense prevails in this case. Surely someone should have just taken her to one side and said that this wasn't appropriate? I bet it just didn't even ocur to her that this could have been inflamatory?
I have a question though - was this offensive because it was a teddybear and not a person? I hear lots of people nammed Muhhamed so it cant be wrong to name your child so?
Just a question am curious.
Somebodytaught me to shut up but I didn't listen...:(
You can't teach experience...
Shyt CID knocking at my door...
BRB
You can't teach experience...
Some one show me a happy Islam woman and I will convert...
I see lots of happy guys...
And NO I'm not talking about the rich women
I wuv you all...
You can't teach experience...
And as far as I can tell my quote fits every post...
You can't teach experience...
What ever I do bad...
Just give me the lashes...
And send me home...
I can handle pain...
Just not being locked up...
YAY
You can't teach experience...
look at it this way she was coming to teach in a muslim country, being a teacher she should have had a basic idea of the senesitivities of the people that she was going to work for.
Being ignorant is not an excuse especially from a teacher.
are the bbc to be believed!!! I am non islamic......
It just pisses me off, story after story about how those idiots are representing an entire religion. Just not fair. Now, whenever I see anything Islam related thread I just walk away cause I can't take it anymore :(
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
but it only takes a handful of any of those kinds (in ANY religion) to poison others else against them...
I totally agree Scarlett, this is too sickening. They are really ruining the name of Islam, it really saddens me to see people with such mentalities.
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
Smokey baby, howdy? Still shaking eh! $-)
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People are very inclined to set moral standards for others.
~Elizabeth Drew, The New Yorker, 16 February 1987
the jail term OR the 40 lashes...The lady obviously isn't Muslim, so how would she know it wasn't acceptable to do that? Good grief...
Perhaps I am thinking the wrong way, but if enough of the children thought to name the bear Muhammed..doesn't that show that they are thinking of their religion and wouldn't that be a compliment instead of an insult?? I mean, honestly, it is young children that made that choice of names...Or am I totally off kilter here..?
FC ur hereeeee!! hurray!! 40 lashes is nothing they should have just burned the school down and removed protests they are starting to get soft.
Where there is Fire...There is Coke. Where there is Rum..There is Smoke - Sir Smoke-a-Lot
It didn't shock me at all, what do you expect? some people of "could be" religion of peace will always give a bad name to it!
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People are very inclined to set moral standards for others.
~Elizabeth Drew, The New Yorker, 16 February 1987
40 lashes ?? What is wrong with everyone ?? Is this like the new trend or something ?? Geez!
I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong :P - Garfield
wow... enough said
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Seriously people are getting too sensitive!
that the teacher should be arrested. This is insane. She hasnt done anything wrong. It is getting crazier day by day..........