Inside the Fog of War: Afghanistan Documents

The French are considered human now....,.when did this change take place

lol mate. ofcourse we are talking about all humans aren't we?

but the French? That is too much to ask ;)

What about the Canadians ?? Do we have to be nice to them also ? :O)

Thanks for accepting my arguments and for this sole reason I am against war and we should all join hands in anti war movement and should discourage our politicians who are pushing us into wars. We should respect every human being whether black, white, asian or otherwise/ whether he is europeon, Afghan, indian chinese or otherwise.

Your logic is sound, except for one thing... These nations stand up for themselves and wouldn't allow others to invade them :O)

The simple fact is that might is right ...

thank you exexexpat for a mid night joke

OBL and the Taliban have. I think we have international courts to hear war crimes and I believe Bush and Blair should be taken there.

ex expaty based on your logic, I was just thinking that if UK is giving protection to Salman Rushdi guilty of committing blasphamy and wanted dead or alive in the whole of Muslim world. I think a plan to invade UK will be very reasonable. dont u think? USA has killed a million in Iraq and Afganistan and it is highly likely that they will kill more. How about invading USA?

good enough people will keep dying. dont u think?

How about handing over that idiot George Bush to Afghans? What do u think?

were guided by bin laden who has received support and protection from the Taliban. So I think it is legitimate to go there to the root of the problem. If the Taliban had kicked him out they could have prevented being invaded and then continued to make their own people as miserable as possible with no interference from outside :)

exexexpat

do u really believe that the hijackers were ever visited Afghanistan, and got training there for a flight test?

btw, Afghans don't have anything to loss, but it is Americans and Allies forces who value their life the most, and who can't tolerate to see a dead body on their airport.

No wonder, Afghans have to face this craziest nation.

Cluster bombs are used to kill and maim. The weapons you are talking about are called "Daisy Cutters".. They are used to strike into deep caves. Napalm was used widely in Vietnam, but haven't heard of it used in Afghanistan. White Phosphorous burns, but is banned.

As far as atrocities. Afghans are fighting with Allies and thus killing Afghans..

their country from further attacks by extremists trained in Afghanistan. What you see all depends on where you are standing, mate.

To me we should get out of the war because it is not with our best interests to stay in and lose more of our soldiers and our staying there serves no purpose and wastes money and lives.

I think we all agree Napalm is a terrible thing.

Well you may not agree with me on Neepam or clusters (it has been proved on many accounts that when allied firstly invade Afghanistan they frequently used nipoms). Clusters were used to destroy underground hideouts in Tora Bora. Well I didnt knew these names till i heard their functions and use after they were used in Afghanistan. And responsible People like Red cross worker and a BBC country country correspondent wont lie to me about the dead bodies they recovered from the area and brought them across border to bury because there were no local people left to bury them. just yesterday 45 were killed in a school in Afghanistan.

And how can we say that atrocities have been committed on both sides when Afghans are not the invaders, nor any afghan has ever directly been involved in any kind of attack on a foreign soil. rather invaders are going to Afghanistan to kill Afghans. As far as they are concerned they are just protecting their own country as any other nation would do. Also there is no mach in the death toll on both side. the ratio may be more then 1:1000.

tougher immigration laws and visa requirements would help a lot. Couple that with good intel at home and support for our allies in the region that would yield better intel, and we would be a lot better off than we are now.

This is what I've been saying.. Let's get out.. Spend money on securing our own borders and move on..

It's over 300,000,000 people that had their way of life changed dramatically on 9/11/2001. I really can understand why the Americans went in there to get OBL and shut down the Taliban training camps. I think they lost the plot though when that idiot Bush went into Iraq. And I don't think they can ever get their momentum back so it's best to leave and seal their borders as best can be done.

Yes, innocents have died. The numbers are open to debate though. I would agree that the numbers are too high.

As far as Napalm is concerned, I doubt whether it's been used. Nato has used "heavy" bombs in mountains, but not cluster bombs as far as I know.

Lastly , your comments about bodies. Afghans tend to busry the dead immediately and within their area, so why take the bodies accross the border..

We should agree that atrocities are being committed by both sides and that NATO needs to get out pronto..

and the diary released now proves that a lot of killings go unreported for several reasons. in 2003 I met a BBC correspondent traveling with a few red cross activists who told me about the incident in Tora Bora (a mountain range in Afghanistan on the border of Pakistan). They told me that when US forces attacked the caves there with cluster bombs, they claimed that have killed many Taliban. They told me that when they went to the Border to see the dead bodies (Dead bodies were brought across the border for burial) all of them killed were women children and old men who could not fight hiding there to avoid fight. The correspondent told me that he reported this fact to BBC, but his report was never aired.

There are thousands of incidents like this. Nipam bombs have regularly used in Afghanistan. I am not an expert but i guess nipom bombs kill any living thing in 1 sq. mile.

My friends what else can be more brutal then actually using worlds advanced mass killing weaponry on help less people and actually killing hundreds and thousands, just because a few sitting at their homes in USA can feel safe?

about Afghans having the right to decide how they want to live, even if it is a living hell for some. It's still their right to wallow in their own misery and the foreign invasion hasn't lessened their misery. I think a strategy like what was in place in Iraq during Saddam's rule in the 1990s would be the best. Secure all borders and contain their sphere of influence within their borders.

This war has always been about terrorism... The culture of the Afghans and their feudal structure is a side issue.

Well My point is that the perpetrators of the war use propaganda like Afghans are very cruel with their women and children and Taliban and warlords are killing innocent people, to hide the actual facts and get support for the invasion and to overshadow the actual purpose of the war. My argument is that what ever Afghans do in Afghanistan they should do it internally and no body is allowed to take away their sovereignty and freedoms.

These tactics are used to hide actual facts from the people and despite the fact that truth comes out from time to time, still some people turn a blind eye to these facts.

No one said that the Allies went there for humanitarian reasons.

LOL New York has the highest crime rate in the world!!!! :-P

New York does not have the highest crime rate in the world. And they do not have anywhere near the murder rate you stated:

"The city finished the year [2009] with the fewest murders since the NYPD started keeping track nearly 50 years ago.

There were 466 slayings in 2009, down from 523 in 2008 and below the previous record low of 496 in 2007, according to records through December.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/01/06/2010-01-06_2009_homicides_fewest_since_63.html#ixzz0uysdYNqR

Don't make ridiculous claims to support your arguments because it casts suspicion on everything you write.

Brit, I am sorry for your loss and if i have to, I will support Justice and compensation for your loss as well. But the situation here is totally different. We are talking about the Military of different countries invading another country and committing genocide as opposed to your case of being attacked by a criminal who may be punished if captured. Again here we are talking about killing innocent civilians and most of the time unarmed or may be armed with small hand guns (carrying guns in Afghanistan is a tribal culture so not necessarily all are criminals).

Further the tribal justice system which has remained very effective in reducing crimes cannot work in the current environment where a few blessed ones are favored by the allied forces and the rest are left vulnerable.

As far as killing of Afghans by Afghans is concerned. well every few minutes a New Yorker is Killed by another New Yorker with the highest crime rate in the world. I guess then we should gather a few favorite nations to attack New York the stop the killing? How does it sound? Ridiculous Ha, well I agree. and similarly no matter what is happening inside Afghanistan, it is the will of the Afghans to decide what is best for them. Invasion makes things worse. Besides the reasons for invading Afghanistan was not humanitarian, nor it is humanitarian now. (UN or Nato could have avoided genocide in Rwanda, if they are really interested in the cause or humanitarian intervention and the 300 billion spent here could have saved million of people dying of hunger in Africa rather then killing more in Afghanistan). don't you agree?

Some one here said that people can't get rid of the War lords. Well there were always tribes and lords in Afghanistan and the system has been working for thousands of years successfully with less crime rate then any developed nation in the world. Besides these warlords monsters were created by USA against USSR and still Allied forces are using their help even if they are playing a double agent role. making US directly and indirectly responsible for their activities. Check old news papers of the 80's and you will come to know that the same people were then called Mujahideen and once the most favorite allies of the USA and were supplied stingers by US to shoot down Russian Planes.

As far as wealth of Afghanistan is concerned, For your information there are big oil reserves in Qundus Province. Not pumping oil since USSR invaded Afghanistan. There is said to be one of the biggest oil and Gas reserves in Waziristan (Pak) and it's bordering provinces of Afghanistan.

Lastly it is the strategic location which is keeping USA in AFG, i.e. inches away from Iran and China. a blog was propagating the use of Saudi airspace and land by Israel for carrying attack on Iran (Well why not Afghanistan while one of their base in Afghanistan is minutes away from Iran).

rishi...My source can never be media to get information about my own courtyard. Similarly, no matter how much information I get from media or the internet about your place, you'll always be in a better position than me to analyze...isn't it? :-)

PS: Any chance of coming back to Doha?

khattak,i really dont know how you sure you are when you say that mineral and oil and gas deposits in afghanistan are less that what america has wasted in the war. if its really so, i dont see any point why america is pumping so much efforts there. at least it wants something back.

another thing, if taliban dont want to trade in opium, what is their major source of revenue? to buy ammunitions from china, they need money.

true, america was initially there to locate bin laden but in the process it had to quell all the forces which were against them.

who are the foreign sponsored terrorists in pak?

why the ISI chief supported taliban?

khattak, your thoughts are not much different from mine...ofcourse the little difference would be there as you are on the opposite side of the fence..

neither me nor you is getting the story from the horse's mouth and thus media is the only source based on which we draw our interpretations.

now, dont tell me you have your relatives in afghanistan who update you the political scenario on a daily basis.

Agreed genesis, democracy isn't a sure shot formula for peace. It doesn't work in some places and some "developed" countries need to realise that.

Finally I came to realize that you can't form a democracy out of tribalism

What Afghanistan needs is a dictatorship. Someone From within their tribes

That could keep Taliban at bay

Many assume that terminating Taliban would improve the situation of women in Afghanistan according to their norms & standards. While the truth is most afghanis share the same mindset of Taliban

well if the Westerners leave Afghanistan without finding a new target, it will derail the military industry which in turn will hurt the pockets of the politicians.

So till a new target is found they will continue to remain there.

With Afghanistan under their occupation, it will be easier to put China dn Russia on the radar as well.

I just copy-pasted a news man. I am not saying who will attack and who won't.

Wikipedia tells me he is the spokesman of TTP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azam_Tariq_(Tehrik-i-Taliban_Pakistan)

Dear Lafanga... Its not TTP who would plan attacks inside India. Its Lashkar, Sipah & Jesh. If you dont know who Azam Tariq is, just google his background.

Some interesting news coming out of Pakistan. Pakistani taliban is planning to conquer India :)

http://news.rediff.com/special/2010/jul/26/three-thousand-terrorists-for-india-battle-pak-taliban.htm

Sorry Goldie if I moved away from topic again :)

And one more thing Rish..... If ISI wants to kill the Indians in Afghanistan...do you think they'll need the Taliban for that? If yes then you dont know much about ISI & Afghanistan.

rishimba...you said:

"to me, the reasons are apparantly simple and straightforward

- usa wants to get back the money from afghanistan whatever it has wasted. it has eyes on its resources"

Well, the resources are not as much as the US has spent so far.

"- taliban warlords dont want to lose the revenue they are getting from opium and thus are dead against the intervention of usa."

Production of Opium was reduced by 93% during the Taliban Regime.

"- some warlords are making money by acting double agents."

Yes, You are right...but not some, most of them. ;)

"- usa know they cant win the war so they are trying all means to crush taliban."

The US was never there to crush Taliban.

"- paki government cannot displease either the US or the taliban. ex-ISI head was a supporter of taliban."

The US? Yes....The Taliban? NO. Afghan Talibans are not our problem. The problem is the "So Called" foreign sponsored TTP. The Ex-ISI Chief is still a supporter of Taliban.

"- pak is engaged in a proxy war for kashmir and thus uses taliban for this."

There are NO Taliban in Kashmir.

"- pak government needs money from US and thus has to do some lip service."

Bingo... They say "Do More", We say "Want More". Works well for us.

"its not that difficult to understand anyways."

It not that difficult to understand if you use your brains and not follow what media shows you, mate.

Good Morning :-)

This is my favourite bit

' I admit that there may be warlords and leaders who are making the life of Afghans miserable(not just women and children) but again it is the right and obligation of Afghans to decide if they want to live with these warlords or not'

hi mr warlord we've decided that we don't like living under your oppression so can you and your men stop pointing those guys at us and killing people who don't agree with your rule.....

Come on, such naievity from the people that don't have to live there.

to me, the reasons are apparantly simple and straightforward

- usa wants to get back the money from afghanistan whatever it has wasted. it has eyes on its resources.

- taliban warlords dont want to lose the revenue they are getting from opium and thus are dead against the intervention of usa.

- some warlords are making money by acting double agents.

- usa know they cant win the war so they are trying all means to crush taliban.

- paki government cannot displease either the US or the taliban. ex-ISI head was a supporter of taliban.

- pak is engaged in a proxy war for kashmir and thus uses taliban for this.

- pak government needs money from US and thus has to do some lip service.

its not that difficult to understand anyways..

I am not valueing money over human life.. It is you who keeps going on about recompense.

This is reality. As I said before, lives have been lost on both sides. By the way, the Afghans are killing Afgans daily.

The simple fact is that Afghans have never had courts to take their grievances too. Everything is taken care of by the warlords or the Jirgas.

Lastly, I was the victim of a terrorist attack in Saudi. I lost my house and car and my young somn was injured. And yes, I didn't have any courts to go to either .. :O(

The only disagreement between us is that you are valuing money over human lives and I will prefer to support saving humanity and human rights. To me welfare of Afghans is primary whereas for you it is secondary.

Admittedly USA and it's allies made a mistake and fooled it's own people by lying to them. In the course of this operation innocent lives are lost every day and they are directly responsible for it. Citizens of these countries are indirectly responsible for it because the cost of this illegal war is paid from the tax payers money.

And this is not the end. the mess and swamp made by this invasion will continue even if Nato forces leave Afghanistan in the same way as Iraq. And till the time things cool down one can expect Afghans hating the whole of the west for decades to come for their actions.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Afghan. What will you do when your father, mother, son, daughter is killed by someone and you do not have courts to take him to?

what would you do when your life is destroyed by someone you don't even know?

Afghanistan do not have the resources to reach and attack USA, but USA have used all it's resources to make sure they kill as much as possible. besides Why shouldn't USA attack Saudi Arabia. All the terrorists involved in 9/11 were Saudis.

It seems we are in agreement on most things :O)

The simple fact is that we are there for our own purposes. As I said before, the welfare of the Aghanis is secondary. However, they are doing much to help set up schools, institutions and infrastructure.

Yes, innocents have died. But , such is the nature of war.

Time is very near for the coalition forces to leave. Then we will see what the Afghans do for themselves.

:( i missed a decent debate :(

Again every one is giving more importance to money then the suffering of the Afghans.

And Brit Coalition forces have been more brutal and killed a lot more then Taliban. The life in Afghanistan cannot be compared with the ones in developed countries. I admit that there may be warlords and leaders who are making the life of Afghans miserable(not just women and children) but again it is the right and obligation of Afghans to decide if they want to live with these warlords or not. Since 1979 they are continuously at a state of war and they are atlest 2 centuries behind the developed nations. killing them is not the answer as the ones responsible for their misery and backwardness must pay to allow them to develop their country but instead our governments are paying and supporting these warlords to assist them for their own causes and not for the development of the poor people of Afghanistan. Even Karzai is a paid puppet protected by US private forces(DynCorp to be precise) to work for the interests of US and not the Afghans.

If you want to account for the 300 billion, check the accounts of these warlords and you will find your money. I doubt that even a single penny was paid to the poor people.

rishimba that is another interesting story. US arrests someone, he says I was funded and trained by ISI during interrogation, now USA is in trouble as US funds Pakistan so indirectly it's US money being used to spread terrorism and they talk about fighting terrorism, LOL. Someone should also check in Dubai for the property owned by Pakistani Politicians, Army personnel and ISI officers. More USA money being wasted ;-)

I have been, and the only thing the afghan people want from the outside would is money! Then they rich and powerful can send it all out of the country to fund their villas in dubai.

Really I do not see the reason my government is there, the Taliban a bad regime, sure but for who...the Afghans.

Dot.com you should go join your Taliban brothers, and fight the oppessive infidel invaders...

The sad thing is the posting was not about Afghanistan per se, but the lies and deceit of our governments - but as usual we got sidetracked.

Goldie..

I understand your viewpoint. I also agree that nations should NOT interfere in other nations' internal affairs. However, I disagree about life in Afghanistan for ordinary people. I have worked with Afghanis in Saudi and from their stories, it is a very very hard and harsh life. They have been abused by their leaders for years. The war lords and in many cases the Taliban use power to demand taxes and alegiance as they see fit. The war lords are gods in their area and no one can stand up to them. Summary justice is carried out at their whim and whether you agree or not , women and children are regulary abused.

..the reality your telling is not an new story,this was known back then. but they tried to cover it up from the public and i wonder why the Obama's Adminstration allowed this to happen? Some hidden agenda???

i wonder why nobody is talking about ISI being hand in glove with taliban to kill indians?

I am not abusing anyone. I am telling you the reality and raising my voice against the regime of oppression and colonialism. Even American and British people do not know where their government is spending all the tax payers money and how indirectly they are supporting the killing of innocent people

Only abusing Americans is considered sticking to the topic?

Come on you again want to drag every one to the old propaganda that Afghan people and women are not happy in their country. I can show you a million unhappy people in other countries in the world. How about a single mom of 5 in USA complaining about her misery.

Besides these articles are individual views and do not necessarily show the will of the masses in Afghanistan. You can go to any state in the world and you will find that majority of the people complain against the system. But this does not allow any one to interfere in their system.

Did you ever try to find out what Afghan people think about Americans or the Europeans?

Better stick to the topic and describe the blunders committed by stupid people by invading Afghanistan and using unreasonable force against the poorest nation on planet earth By the biggest military might on earth and yet after 9 years of invasion they have not achieved anything except killing innocent people and sacrificing their own killing machines.

Interesting article on status of women in Afghan society in today's news.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jpKo00yLLGOOvksyXI7WAXdFIahA

US

A craziest nation on earth in modern history, who killed Red Indians for land, thousands of Japanese for Pearl Harbor, Koreans & Vietnamese for No Reason, Iraqi's for fake WMD and Afghans for a missing links of 9/11.

And by the way the 300 billion you are talking about were spent without the knowledge and consent of Afghan people and they never asked Americans to invade them But The reserves belong to them. It a pity that many people in the world do not have food to eat and USA will not give them 3 dollars to spend and yet they can spend 300 billion waging war against the poorest country in the world. What a shame and Cowardice.

For your information there is oil, Gas and other reserves and Afghans have been surviving without help from any one for centuries. they are the tuffest people on planet earth and they will survive for sure.

To my amazement, even after knowing all the facts and reality you are still discussing money spent or embezzled. Do you you think that money is more important then the people killed every day.No one here seems to say that it was a bad decision and that killing innocent people is something wrong. This is a very inhumane approach which cannot be expected from civilized people.

Admittedly crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. This will also be covered under the Genocide Convention. If Nuremberg can force Germans to pay for the War Germans waged on the World, why not USA and Britain should pay for that and why not punish those who committed Genocide in Afghanistan.

Instead somebody said here that they should be contained? My friends they are not a virus. You are talking about living breathing human beings.

This is very cruel to talk like this forgetting that foreign troops invading afghans have violated all the norms and laws created by civilized nations. Lets ask our governments to punish those responsible for war crimes and genocide. Let there be a war crimes tribunal and people like Bush, Blair and Obama be tried in them. This is not for the sake of any country. this is to save the humanity and Humnan values.

It doesn't have any crude and little gas but it does have mineral deposits. Still to get back the 300 billion they spent will take s long time......

afganistan is having huge deposits of crude and natural gas...which is why america is not leaving the country. usa would never go for a poll as they know that people dont actually want the foreign forces there...

Hey it was just an idea :P

Since ages we've fought war over and over again,thats how civilizations rise and falls..,But still one question left to be answered??Is it for the good of many??If,yes,how come it is getting worse..Probably because of ideals and belief..Lets face it,as long as self-intentions rule this world,there can be no peace..."NO man is good enough to be govern by a leader without his consent"....

Afghanis have a feudal system, where the Warlords dictate the terms. In an election, the people would vote as per their areas war lord's instructions.

lafanga, good idea in theory, but IMHO impossible in reality. Do you really think a fair poll could be executed over there?

If the NATO forces are really there to save Afghans from oppression and suffering and the threat of world terrorism has already been neutralized then how about doing it the democratic way?

Let them conduct a poll in Afghanistan to see if the Afghans want NATO forces in Afghanistan for their betterment or not. If the people don't want any change in their leadership then why is NATO worrying so much about it.

What a waste of 300 Billion dollars.

it was only a short reply to exiled, who thinks wat is better and wat is worse for Afghans, beside accepting the ground realities.

btw look at KSA & Iran, no one on earth were apparently religious than them, but now the changes are occurring, and the same was possible with Taliban's rule.

look, how many years Taliban were in power in Afghanisan, if you compare it with current invaders, half of the period, and wat these invader brought in life of a common Afghan?

Any significant change?

Nothing

Then why to Blame Taliban, probability was there, that if given time to them, may be they changed their strict policies slowly and gradually.

taliban are for sure americas bit(8y ex-girl friend...who had a long distance relationship thru pakistan...the boyfriend will pay the price for ditching her

Funnily enough.. There was a period when the Taliban brought a semblance of order to certain areas and they were preferred to the war lords..

However, as with such things, they abused their power and became tyrants themselves rather than benefactors...

exiled

this is wat your Broadcasting showing to you

"Taliban back and the oppression starts again with innocent civilians getting killed on a weekly basis"

and this is wat, the Afghans want

"Taliban were better than the bastards invaders"

it's long past time for foreign troops to get out of afghanistan. Leave them to their misery and contain that misery within their borders (like Iraq before that idiot bush decided to show off to his dear old dad). Contain them and let them do what they want, but DON'T give anymore money to those corrupt people.

And Goldie, you are nuts if you honestly think there can start to be reimbursement for all the wrongs in history. Be practical mate :)

As I said, It's the same people who are getting rich under the Allies, as were under previous regimes.

Time to bring the troops home ...

I agree.. However we have seen in the last four years that the War Lords are still in power. They are taking money from both sides and still opressing the people a lot more than the Taliban..

It's easy to say that but the Taliban have the guns not the people. Look at the Iranians. They wanted change but all they got in return was death, imprisonment and torture. That's because the oppressors use the machinery of the state against their own people

The same would probably occur whenever the Allies leave.

The Afghans themselves must decide what sort of government they want in the future. Karzai is a puppet and he MUST be made accountable for future governance and peace.

People are the government and people make mistakes.

Bamiyan for example - not rebuilt, becuase it would offend Islamists. Well them be offended, it is the right thing to do.

Can you imagine the Egyptians not rebuilding the pyramids if the Taliban blew it up because Islam forbids pictures of people, cats, crocs?

Bremer, the destroyer of Iraq - this loser fired all the Bathists from all positions, attempted to privatize all of Iraq industries and turned the entire Iraqi nation against the invasion & occupation of Iraq.

Getting out now would be s mistake. Yes NATO have made some big mistakes there but they can't just leave and let the Taliban take over. What a future for the afghans? Beheadings in the football stadium, women stoned to death on the verdicts of kangaroo courts. Girls denied education, men forced to grow beards and emended covered in trash can liners and abused. ...... and that is just the start.

The afghans don't deserve this continuing war but they don't deserve the Taliban

Special Forces killing talibans without trial and why should the government coverup the fact that the talibans have got hold of surface-to-air missiles ?

Soviets went in to support the Aghan communists, Americans to avenage Vietnam, Afgan-Arabs for Islam and now the Americans to stop the hauling hordes of Imams, Ayatollahs and Mahdis.

That's politics.

The Paks were within a hair's breath of being declared a terrorist state; the CIA pleaded against it claiming that their only channel to Afghanistan under the Taliban would be shut if that were to happen.

Is it any surprise that the Paks are double-dealing, blaming everyone but themselves for their failed state?

By the way, carrot juice is nice! :D

back to the topic the article is about revelations of Afghanistan wars. it's an open book for us to be aware of how this government of the west spent millions of dollars for armaments...arms used to kill innocent civilans...and yet millions of people are in a hungry state.

Goldie control your emotions, if there is one person killed elsewhere then you are talking about 1 Trillion murders by NATO. keep the debate in the realms of possibility, will you?

Well the ones u r talking about were also trained by CIA and planted in Afghanistan in the first place. SO why shouldn't Afghans be compensated for this conspiracy. And besides I think you haven't seen the figures yet. Nato have killed 1000000000000 times more innocent people thenn ever killed in other countries.

And I agree with you that the ones who killed innocent people in other countries should face justice. But do you think this is the way to do justice by killing and butchering more innocent people. This is rather a way to create a swamp which will create more bigger and powerful monsters

Compensation sounds ridiculous at best but they should get out now. As for everyone being hungry for power in Afghanistan, Every politician everywhere is hungry for power, will NATO invade every other country to decide who gets the power???

OK.. Let's start with the Afghans compensating the Allies for harbouring and training terrorists which killed innocent people in other countries. Then they can reimburse us for the costs of the war effort.

I agree that innocents have been killed. However, both sides are to blame.

Both sides guilty? Why? who invaded Afghanistan. Do u really believe that Nato should be allowed to kill Afghans like carrots and Afghans should not fight back. What would you do if some one invades Britain. Don't you think we will fight back invasion in Britain. Afghans are doing the same. So how can they be Guilty?

BP made a mess in the Gulf of Mexico and will be paying for it. Who will pay for the mess by America and allies in Afghanistan. Don't you think the lives of innocent people killed every day in Afghanistan are equally important. Who will give them justice. They must be compensated in all ways. There should be a war tribunal constituted to punish the mass murderers and no one including George Bush, Obama, tony Blair and all other supporting should be exempt.

You cannot just pull out the troops. You got to establish a strong armed law enforcement because right now, everybody is just hungry for power.

There have been losses on both sides..

The article is not about the rights or wrongs of being there, but about the untruths, coverups and propoganda.

Both sides are guilty of this, not just the allies.

@ briteexpat ya this is a simple way 2 return ur home safely rather 2 have more lossez as Afghanz never care loosez of their side.

if you make a mess, u clean it

Admittedly NATO has created a chaos and killed innocent people so y not compensate them. or else hand over the people responsible for the killings to war crimes tribunals.

Shame on American British and NATO forces and all others killing unarmed civilians and all who support these killings including American politicians. Cowards.

I think compensation is out of order, but I agree that we need to get our troop out.

@ exiledsaint u hve 2 leave soon , plz just take a lesson from Russiaz.

100 % agreed with Goldie123.

Let the Afghans decide for themselves. Foreign troops were never ever welcomed in Afghanistan. USA must compensate Afghanistan for the losses caused by NATO and get out at once. Afghanistan is the bear trap as Russians used to call it and see what happened to USSR after they messed up with Afghans.

@ gtim n a war one party must win..till now i thnk Afghnz r the winning party despite the lossez.

Still some Americans will think that their rulers are trying their best to save America. At what cost? at the cost of killing innocent Afghan people and their own poverty ridden Americans joining the army to save some bucks.

And the Result? No results rather negative results in the form of hatred from the remaining 4 billion people on earth.

If these revelations and the blood of the innocent does not act as eye opener for the British, American and European public, well I hope they do not live and die ignorant.

I disagree. The time to leave has gone, we cannot leave the afghans until they have a chance to run a reasonbly stable country. Let the Taliban back and the oppression starts again with innocent civilians getting killed on a weekly basis

what exactly do you mean rayyani?

Rayyani99, "no one will going to win the war... both parties are lossers" :)

no one can win a battle or rule Afghans mean Pathans as declared by the history.

I don't know you posted it Brit, but i was able to finished readin it just now. Interesting, reports always comes the other way around... tsk.. tsk.. civilians were always the victims...

Darly: Lesson number one. Don't always believe what your government tells you.

back to the original mission, where is bin laden?

It is long reading but I am shocked at the death squads and the number of civilians getting killed.

and 'they' boast democracy... say controlled democracy.

It was a no win war from the beginning. Someone needs to swallow the pride, cut the losses and get the hell out of there.

Lives lost on both sides. Deceit and lies by all concerned and we still allow our politicians to get away with it..

Shows how easy it is for the ordinary citizen to be taken in :O(

9 years past with the original mission still left unaccomplished... its a total waste.