Job advert sparks accusation of discrimnation

They can do whatever they want within the law.

Sorry I bothered

For most of those who are concerned with the wording--I don't see the difference. The object of the employer is the same, as is the end result. Wording it more kindly won't change who he hires, it just means a bunch of people might waste their time applying.

More important is to change the attitudes of the employer--i.e. some non-Lebanese can prepare Lebanese cuisine to a high standard; and some Lebanese happen to be terrible at it.

here we go again..

adey, they are not english speaking. Do they have to graduate from the university with major in ESL, to post this ad? They expressed themselves the way they can.

A chef with expertise in Arabic cuisine

A chef with expertise in Lebanese cuisine

An Executive chef with expertise in European cuisine

A chef with expertise in Indonesian cuisine

Cleaners to attend to Female changing areas

Cleaners to attend to Male changing areas

The non Egyptian comment is bizzare. As this country has quotas for specific nationalities doing specific jobs they do ask to put nationality on CVs.......so it's very simple to put unwanted straight into the rejected pile with one cursory glance at their CV. Hardly time consuming.

MS, I think I got what the problem is. You are talking in general, and I am talking about this particular ad. In general terms, I agree. When I hire an Office Clerk, all I have to care about is his(or her) office skills. But if I want to hire an arabic translator with lebanese accent, sorry, I will have to specify it. Because lebanese accent will be different from the egyptian one, or from the Gulf accent, let alone tunisians and moroccans. Agree?

I have never said "you are a terrible recruiter...". I said THEY are terrible recruiters. They don't have any system, they don't have staff to create a system, they don't need any system or forms, they don't want a heavy HR dpmt, or even dedicated person(s) who will be going through thousands of useless CVs to get one that fits the requirements. They don't have all this and they don't want to have it.. ALL they need is an arabic (non-egyptian) cook. Simple. Doesn't it make a life easier for everyone? ...and hey, I AM not a recruiter at all. But still have to perform this duty once in a while, because again we don't have (and don't need) an in-house recruiter, as we are barely hiring 1 person a three month. But when we do hire, I make sure we specify the requirements very clear, otherwise I am the one who will be sitting days and nights and clicking on hundreds of nonsensical CVs attached with hundreds of nonsensical emails. Been there, done that.

I do believe, that you "recently hired a jordanian who can work wonders in Tunisian, Egyptian and Lebanese cuisine". Why not? If THIS is the requirement of the employeer, that's fine. But if the employer needs a Tunisian for tunisian food, an Egyptian for egyptian food and a Lebanese for lebanese food, you have to follow the requirements.

And hey my tone is quite low.. :) As a matter of fact I am calm and relaxed... Life is gooood...

Racism and discrimination are not in the words, but rather these are in the attitudes or behaviours of people. Everyone wants a world devoid of racism and descrimination-fine expectations, I must say..but racism and discrimination are largely visible in many other aspects in our every day lives..that we have to open our eyes and see..the discrimination between lancruiser and mistubishi lancer on the roads..the discrimination between areas segregated for male and female..the discrimination between haves and have nots, weak and strong, beautiful and ugly...national and expartiates..many more..

Not an element of racism or discrimation would have been in the minds of the advertiser or the owner of the business when he /she placed the add here as Tinkerbell had tried to state here time and again. It is a way here. It is how this works here among the semi skilled candidates..Let us not make a mountain out of a mole..

Let us not elaborate a trivial mistake that arose out of inexperience or ignorance of a HR assistant.

Britexpat got a valid point here:

"The excuses about visas etc don't hold true, because different wording could have been used."

Again, it's not what you say or need... it's just how you frame it.

If you need a warehouseman, yes... you need a man, you can simply say that you need someone who can lift heavy weights (40-50 kilos).

On the Arabic Chef (Lebanese) it's just a matter of interpretation, maybe what they need is a chef in Arabic Cuisine who is an expert in Lebanese. I recently hired a jordanian who can work wonders in Tunisian, Egyptian and Lebanese cuisine.

Does an employer not have the right to hire the person who HE thinks is right for the ob? And IF he does, why then can he not ask for a person with the exact requirements he feels he needs?

I agree with Qatarisun. It's unfair to assume prejudice on the part of the employers in such cases in which they prefer one nationality over the other. In Qatar there are very good reasons for doing so--most notably immigration laws.

In terms of gender, the same holds true. No point in hiring men to clean a women's fitness area.

In terms of "good looking" requirements mentioned in other ads, I assume that's what the photo requirement is for.

I don't think they are familiar with politically correct...hahahahaha....TIQ nd they don't give a hoot abt the rest of the world

At a glance it certainly appears discriminating and racist. However the establishment may have many excuses as to why they did what they did. Unavailability of visas hence actually not wanting to waste the time of applicants, having already an Egyptian cook(or cooks) hence not wanting another(due to wanting to keep their cuisine varied), them actually lacking the knowledge to know that such ads look bad, etc. Unless we hear their side, it's really hard to assume they intended on being discriminatory.

Qatarisun,

First of all: I believe you should lower your tone, you asked and so I answered... as simple as that. To be honest I don't care if you want to do "this" or "that", I am just giving my opinion and I believe no one should get offended because of that.

Second: don't take things out of context... you are talking to me as if I had to anticipate what's inside your brain.

Third: yes, I'm a terrible recruiter... you're better than me so PLEASE!!! don't waste your time... LOL!

Having said all this, take a chill pill!

Adios!

DaRu, I am new here too..

MS, "create your own recruitment forms and system"? Really? One little restaurant needs a couple of arabic cooks. Big deal! WHY on the earth they have to create their own "recruitment forms and system" for that ??

You've been doing recruitment for over 15 years.. they are neither recruitment agency nor a huge Oil Company who is hiring hundred of employees every month. They most likely barely have 1 and a half HR employees. Do they have to create a recruitment system? CAN they create any system? I am sure they even don't have staff to do this job! They only need a Middle-eastern cook for the Middle-Eastern food! WHAT's wrong with that?

Now tell me, if you need a dark-skin female photomodel for your particular project, would you specify that it must be a WOMAN, or you would hide this fact in your ad, not to look a sexist? Would you specify that she must be dark-skinned, or you would hide this fact not to look a racist? Would you specify that she should look as a Model, or you would hide it, not to discriminate ugly, short, and fat people?

I am currently looking for the employee with Arabic as a mother language, with a certain accent, i.e. basically I need an Arab national. And this is the major requirement. So should I hide my MAJOR requirement, and then to drown myself in the ocean of thousands of South-Asian CVs in order to fish out 1 Arabic CV? what's the point of that?? Sorry, but to save my time and the applicant's time, I make it clear: I need an ARAB. Am I a racist?

DaRuDe, Searching for job/accommodation or what?

All the people are equal. It's just that some people are more equal than others. .........joke, personally, I don't believe in any kind of favoritism, although I do believe partialities are done for mutual favours........but that's how this world spins (even the globe is tilted to one side)

i am new here

Qatarisun, yes... I've been doing recruitment for over 15 years. That's the reason why I'm here and no matter how much "extra" work that will give me, I always refuse to discriminate against any nationality. I am not going moral here, I'm just trying to play safe, rather than sorry.

BTW there ways to get around it, you can create your own recruitment forms and system, this way you'll save work during the screening process.

Being American, I know it is not allowed to post ads in my country that discriminate. But, this is Arab country. They do it.... cause they CAN. some just want a pretty face at the front and for other benefits.... :S

I know I have not gotten work yet, since I am not right age, race, gender and weight! but also now visa excuse.... when i get interview call. i can not get residence visa from a husband or father sponser, and the business says they dont have female residence visas. To bad for the Employer!!! I am a very talented, hard-working career minded lady, who any company would benefit from having. I know I would be a good asset.

But yes, some companies post they need arab speakers, (I speak Arab btw!!)

as for cooks... they can post they need certain nationality to cook certain food items other nationalites don't have the skills for.

I use to own my own Restaurant, as well as other businesses back in USA before my divorce. So I know finding qualified employees is hard to do, but I DO NOT hire based on age, race etc. I hired based on their skills and experience. fair work ethics dont apply here. to bad.

But like I said to many companies here discriminate and post they specificly want indian or asian cause they can pay them alot less.

Salam

MS, have you ever tried to hire someone? You know how many applications a DAY you can receive? Hundreds! To save YOUR time and time of the applicant, it is better to specify your requirements, the narrower the better.. When you receive 100 applications a day, you don't have time to "take the application, and say THANKS FOR APPLYING"! You don’t have time even to open all of them. As a matter of fact, you might miss someone really suitable for the position in this chaotic flow of useless CVs.

As for "Non-Egyptian", I guess I know what they mean. Look, they need staff for the restaurant with obviously arabic (be more specific, Lebanese) cuisine. Now, while Middle eastern arabs (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Palestine) have more or less similar cuisine, Egyptian traditional dishes are different. That's where this specification came from. Another thing, they could be more specific, saying they need "Middle-Eastern" cook, but hey, you cannot blame perhaps arabic-speaking authors of this ad, advertizing in English.

So, nothing wrong with this ad. They need certain master-cooks, who are highly professional in certain cuisine. You know, in Canada, the Company normally cannot hire the employee from overseas, unless the employee with the required set of skills cannot be found inside of Canada. So, one of my fellows was looking for some Japanese cook who is expert in preparing some ONE certain Japanese dish, which my fellow wanted to have in the menu of his new restaurant, to distinguish it from thousands of competitors. Every day my fellow was placing the ad with this requirement, specifying the nationality of the cook, and it was Ok with the Government of Canada, while in other circumstanses it is absolutely prohibited to mention nationality, religion, marital status, etc. Because his business needed particular Japanese with particular set of skills! NOT because he was a racist! So finally he couldn't get a right cook in Canada, and Government gave him an approval to bring such dude from Japan.

Here is the same story. Look, they do not specify the nationality to any other employees, but COOKS.

Think!

Tinks, sorry but from an HR perspective you win NOTHING by pointing towards any nationality, it's just a matter of showing to the public that you are EEO-compliant. People can apply to any jobs but remember, no one has got any the obligation of providing any feedback to job applicants. Only those who are preselected should be called/invited for an interview.

If you receive an application from let's say a Venezuelan and you know that it's almost impossible that such nationality would get approved a work visa, then just take the application, say THANKS FOR APPLYING and just let it go.

I don't even want to discuss racism or discrimination in this thread, I am just recommending anyone who is looking for new personnel to cover their asses by simply advertising your job postings with the minimum qualifications that the job requires. Qualifications meaning: knowledge, education, skills and abilities.

* EEO: Equal Employment Opportunities

There are two ways of doing a business.First, you can be biased (say racist) & choose less competitive people & make losses. Second is, keep your personal preferences to yourself (probably more suitable for choosing your GF or BF), be shrewd & impersonal, choose people with highest abilities. Usually, the second way is more popular world over for obvious reasons. Racism at work place is promoted by those employees who are substandard & want a cover up by forming a particular lobby. But then again the owner of the company will soon learn the hard way to get rid of such people.

tinker, i can write 1000pages on problems of india but issue here is if its 'the most racist' place, i say NO, IMHO nothing is as gravesome as apartheid/slavery/holocaust has been. i rest my case here :)

Isn't there a difference when a company is looking for people having transferable visa and not fresh recruits?

tinker, you must be feeling good now after outburst of your 'legitimate' (i too agree) frustrations,

but if you ask me to accept it (routine socio-economic issues prevalent everywhere) as ‘the most racist society’.....well I won’t agree unless I’m coerced :)

… you still think the Magnitude of racial butchery, as I quote above, is comparable with trivial issues ??

(what happened to you guyz today, give some solid examples atleast; NE exodus was not a racism issue but a terrorist conspiracy, as for your north-south divide, well I can match a positive story for every negative story…..ready?; (I’m sad you undermine northies’ love to hema/rekha)

Its Ok.. lets bask in the glory of empowered India where there is no discrimination and where everything is so perfect and right (atleast the thought feels nice sitting in my room behind the computer screen away from India......reality, who knows)...:)

Can't see what the fuss is about

Too much intellectual stubbornness !!

I repeat as I noted in 9.22am post. Comparing apartheid/slavery/holocaust with reservations (empowerment of backwards, a solution basically not the racism per se) ???

If it still makes sense, I bet we need heavy boost up for the lost morale :), probably karak chai with bhajiyas

Am not sure if there are countries where they have as many categories of reservations approved by the govt. as we have in my beloved country. If not, that should be sufficient to state 'the most'.

tinker et al., my objection is about 'the most',

where did I claim being better or having no issues?

The argument about weighing is almost as lame as saying "not all are like this or like that"...am I expected to go door to door all across the world to meet and experience the behavior patterns of all the people under issue such as related to the response in a particular situation about the folks from a country, etc. As regards, comparisons based on statistics I haven't come across any statistical figure (and I am not claiming I have verified every statistical figure available, which otherwise is humanly not possible, just stating so as not to stretch the argument in that direction) which has not been challenged or could not be challenged for its veracity. I would better go by my judgment on the issue based on my experiences. And if I can say worst in relation to India guess by the simple logic of head count I can cover a few countries or even a couple of continents...:)

acknowledging own flaws is ok (not always though, knowing own flaws is important) but claiming ‘I’m the worst’ (without weighing the rest) is nothing but a sign of low morale

See nothing wrong with the Ad , apart from the "non Egyptian".

The excuses about visas etc don't hold true, because different wording could have been used..

Hahahahaha ….LMFAO….'ENGLISH LADY'…lol, so what about others? Now days ALL made in CHINA, there is no such 'ENGLISH' thing…lol, get a life yall

I find this ad quite funny actually.. :D

I wouldn't have called it discriminated or racist if the requirement for Arabic cook wasn't "Non-Egyptian". Now, thats VERY racist.

Depends on ones capacity, intelligence and involvement to relate individual experiences as examples with the society at large. Also whether one has the ability to acknowledge the flaws and then, and more importantly so, has the guts to state them without the fear of rebuke. As is said, to make a truth a truth you need two people, one who can say it and one who can accept it. I have done my part. BTW just forgot to mention, long back I threw away my rose tinted glasses....:)

TB i dnt blame the west and i will never do that as everyone is responsible for his mistakes

before shooting on your own foot, research about apartheid in SA, holocaust, slavery in Americas/Africa, middle east for centuries…. enlighten yourself here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

I dislike the words 'the most', 'worst'...and above all generalizing issues based individual experiences,

I wonder what studies, surveys are done before proclaiming a large society as 'the most' racist :),

wallahi, these days i watch too much of WWE :)

we Indians are the most racist people in the world that is correct but from where this racism came????

I didnt want to touch that Australian story but since it is brought up opens up the wounds. A south Indian company rejected me after the interview (in fact I was told at the end interview itself) just because I was from North. You may ask why was I called in then...I was given to understand until then they didnt have any suitable candidate from the South..the position was for Heading a group for Asia Pacific region. What I intend to say, we Indians atleast should not cry foul at racism and all such nonsense when we are the biggest racists right in our home. How many people from one state in India here in Qatar have friends from other state people. Isnt it that we carry that baggage of discrimination whereever we go but cry foul when others do it. How many people from Tamilnadu would allow a North Indian to share the place (flat)with them if they so require?

End of the day, I still maintain that I dont see an issue in a company stating what exactly they are looking for be it nationality, age, sex etc etc if we are also stating that rubbish, whom you don't need, quitely without stating so...hypocrisy, right.

But if I dont need an egyptian cook or any other (say Indian) for my own reasons why shouldnt I state so rather than being forced to be a hypocrite just to satisfy the champions of the equality to my chagrin and necessitating extra work to show those unwanted CV's to dustbin. End of the day its my business and its sucess or failure affects only me and none other (except those associated with it).

Tinker, I believe it's dead wrong, even if there are difficulties with certain nationalities... I've been doing HR for the past 15 years and there are ways around your target, if you need an Arab simply say someone with Arabic skills or Arabic cooking experience, but don't point your fingers towards any nationality especially if it's demeaning. You'll get a bunch of CVs but in the end it's your call and no one can do anything about it.

the company doesnt even have new visas. it is asking for sponsorship change....

I don't see any problem with that apart from stating "Non-Egyptian".

it also might be related to the type of the restaurant and cuisine. Actually only cooks' nationalities are specified. Sure, you don't want to bring a Malaysian or brasilian to prepare Tabouli or shish taouk, or falafel...

it's not discrimination. It's a labour quota issue. What's the point to receive hundreds of CV from - perhaps - excellent Nigerian's cooks, if you cannot get visa for them whatsoever? This ad saves employer's time and applicant's efforts...

"Arabic cook (non-Egyptian)" lol.

I think I read a similar news about some ad in Australia. Let me tell you that every nationality, each gender & each age group comes with its own pros & cons. Eg. Indian labour is cheap & reasonably skilled. If some employer doesn't want those qualities, it's his choice.I am sure he will have reasons for such choices better than outright stupidity. But let's be fair, I mean how many employers are stupid as far as their money is concerned. Almost none. Why should such ads be bothering anyone?

OK, I agree political correctness has gone a bit barmy in the UK, and yes I can see the benefit in being specific about post requirements from the offset - it can save both the employer and potential applicants time and effort. But, other than the visa issue mentioned by tinkerbell, what reasons are there for restricting vacancies to people of a certain nationality? For example, I think it's a bit narrow-minded to assume that only Indonesian guys can cook Indonesian food...

At YASLEB

Questions.

Who owns the job - answer - Employer

Who knows the requirements of the job - answer - Employer

So why shouldnt the employer be able to specify EXACTLY what he/she wants from a successful recruitment. If the things you mention are critical to the job then they would be mentioned in the spec - if they are not then I guess they wouldnt be.

Regardless of your somewhat emotive response I believe that UK Employment legislation from succesive Administrations has gone TOO far in an attempt to passify Trade Unions and employees in general.

I maintain that the onus in recruitment remains with the company who want the best fit for a job NOT the expedient "PC" fit.

Well it's not the first time, when ever you start searching for job, you will find the same thing every day in classifieds section, Doha news saw it for the first time, or may be because this time they asked for an Arabic cook but non Egyptian.. What's wrong with that, I see ads every day, Companies asking for Indians/Egyptians/Philippians, But it is okay with me, cuz every one prefer to work with same nationality person for many reasons!

thats BS chairboy!!! As an English lady i could not cook in a chinese restaurant & many Eastern people cannot cook European dishes....also in Uk we have different qualifications like a food safety hygiene certificate mandatory back home, but not in the case of Eastern countries, hence the high rate of food poisoning here in the GCC countries..........u get what u pay for!

I work in HR and have abslutely NO problem with this approach at all - the fault in recruitment doesnt lie here, it lies in the west where the war on discrimination at the point of recruitment has gone mad.

The dog (Employer)should wag the tail (recruitment process) not the other way around!!

I don't think there are any laws about discrimination of this kind in Qatar..... Please correct me if I'm wrong! Segregation of the sexes is part of the culture here, so I guess that could account for specifying required gender for certain posts? I'm not sure I agree with specifying nationality as a requirement though..... why does it mean they are better qualified for the job?

i personally don't find it wrong! its a business, let them do it they way they want it to be!~ if it benefits them, y not?! for sure, there wud be a reason.

btw, Arabic Cook (Non-Egyptian)in above chart is hilarious ... lol

The businesses should do whatever they want without saying it as the world now doesnt allow them to run it the way they want and would cry foul but wouldnt come to rescue it if it fails in the process of being satisfying everyone (and I am not talking of bailout's handed out to the biggies in the failing economies).

may be need demands all this