Karzai on brink of a tainted victory
Once again we support a corrupt president just to further our own ends... However, this time, people are beginning to question.................................
An international summit on the future of Afghanistan was Gordon Brown’s answer last night as the clamour for an exit strategy from the conflict grew louder. With President Karzai ready to claim outright victory in Afghanistan’s flawed elections, the Prime Minister announced his plans for the meeting, which could take place this year in either London or Kabul.
Speaking in Berlin after he met Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, Mr Brown said that the international conference would seek to ensure that the effort to build up the police and army was “properly supported”. Ms Merkel, who faces general elections this month, is under growing political pressure over Afghanistan after a German commander called in an airstrike that killed dozens of civilians last week.
Ms Merkel appears to have agreed to lend her support for the idea after Germany’s involvement in the Nato-led engagement exploded into the country’s election campaign in recent days. Gerhard Schröder, the former Chancellor, demanded that all international forces should be out of Afghanistan by the year 2015.
“We cannot stay there forever,” Mr Schröder shouted on the stump in the north German town of Lübbecke. “We need a cut-off date — 2015 — and we have to tell the Afghan President you cannot rely on us for all time, you have to take responsibility for yourselves.”
The Afghanistan mission — it was called “war” for the first time in the German media yesterday — has become a matter of passionate debate because of the US bombing of two large fuel trucks that had been hijacked by the Taleban in the Kunduz region of northern Afghanistan.
The aircraft had been called in by the German commander, Colonel Georg Klein, who, apparently on the basis of a single intelligence source, assumed that the trucks were accompanied by a large number of Taleban fighters and that they could be used as powerful bombs-on-wheels against Nato forces. But the resulting explosion killed 125 people, including at least two dozen civilians who were siphoning off petrol from the trucks.
The West’s search for an escape route out of the Afghan quagmire has been spurred by last month’s presidential elections, which were marred by widespread ballot-rigging. Although Mr Karzai looks set to be confirmed as the winner, the Independent Election Commission (IEC) has delayed the release of preliminary final results and cancelled hundreds of thousands of ballots.
Full article : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6823832.ece
UN watchdog, ya, should know better.
fair and free elections cannot be conducted in any country where there is no rule of law.
A UN watchdog today ordered a recount of suspicious ballots in the Afghan elections, citing “clear and convincing evidence of fraud”, even as the electoral authorities in the country declared President Karzai the outright winner.
The confusion set the scene for a clash between the Independent Election Commission (IEC) — accused of being in the President’s pocket — and the international community, which has been watching the tidal wave of fraud allegations with growing alarm.
crapcircle: Pulling at my own nerves over the prevailing inhumanity of certain posters on here is not my idea of a good time.
i like that.
I always recall overhearing a conversation in Saudi.. One guy was going on about how great the Taliban were. Anothe asked the simple question "Would you let your family live under Taliban rule ?"
The answer was a firm NO! :O)
I heard a similar exchange between some rich guys in AD in Ramadan 02 in one of 'em tents. Young gun starts praising Saddam, how he was this & that, how he should have won every war he was in, old bloke whips out of his walking stick and smacks him over the fingers, wisely reminding him..
"Had Saddam won the first Gulf war you would be digging ditches up and down the flow of the Tigris, instead of sitting here asking which hotel in Europe you can buy."
Indeed, the worst part about the muslim world is how some people with money and (usually a delusion of) power give themselves the right to experiment with "statebuilding", but only outside their own borders.
That is exactly the gist of the problem and conversely, the very essence of the grief the east has against the west, that idea of a God given right to "tell others how they'll go about their lives". This world is full to the brim of humans with such a basic and primitive grasp of causality (if any at all that is), such twisted double-faced morals, that one wonders if this global meltdown is not perhaps JUST WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED! Everyone involved is IMHO morally bankrupt to the core. Those with any sense of humanism are the silent majority, the apathetic, amid the horror of radicalism and stupidity they are surrounded by, they choose to turn the other cheek to the madness, and the world slides off it's axis...
And I'm hereby done with political debates on here, I don't need this in my life honestly, many a better pursuit to ponder, I neither eat nor drink off of my opinions on foreign relations and political systems. Pulling at my own nerves over the prevailing inhumanity of certain posters on here is not my idea of a good time.
mmyke is like disparate wife.
mmyke you are so upset that a few canadians lost their lives. Has anyone even bothered to count the number of innocent Afghans that have lost their lives since the start of all this, I can't bring myself to call it a war.
What was the original purpose of this invasion anyway, anyone remember?
"Hurricanes are like women : when they come, they're wet and wild, but when they leave they take your house and car."
As I said before , many countries were made to participate in order to bring credibility to the alliance.
Please petition your government to bring your troops home..
PM wud say dat waz just fine..
Please don't forget
Innocent ppl of Japan and Korea.
DotCom: yeah dey were.. also frm veitnam to panama to iraq.. dey were..
no one shud ever disagree wid PM. she iz alwayz rite.
PM: u shud beter stop analysin n judgin things dat u hv no clue abt. Dis iz wat u guyz did and ran into da hel dat u cant come out
let this stone age, violent, self destructive, herion addicted, acid throwing, uneducated, and thugged-out culture live its own life....
went over with different things in mind, and frankly, we are more naive than most about imperialism,,,for those readers out there Canada has only 32 million people and the country is as wide as the distance between Qatar and London, and its as tall as it is wide.
Yes, Canada has unwittingly supported a corrupt system,,,,we thought that if you were to send in the Mounties that everyone would become clean and nice overnight,,,,well, these people were never clean and nice and wouldn't know it if they fell over it.
The Canadian military, by far, is a peacekeeping, humanitary military, whose soldiers usually airlift in drinking water making equipment, front line hospitals, and such things,,,,,to have these nice young people, sgtill with zits on their faces, going there to try to better the human condition, and then being blown up by a bunch of stone age thugs who throw acid into the faces of young female students,,,,
well, its time that we not lose one more good Canadian kid....
only for Urdu/Hindi Viewers.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Does disagreeing with you make one PC ??
I too have Afghani friends and many initially welcomed the Taliban because they brought law and order and were not corrupt like local polticians or police. One even mentioned that prior to the Taliban his family would have to pay at checkpoints to cross from one area to another. The Taliban put a stop to this. They also escorted goods vehicles through dangerous areas without charge.
However, as with history, they began to abuse their power and people turned against them.
seized power in Afghanistan, you are more deluded (or PC) than I thought. I have very close friends who are Afghan and they recognized the corruption of the Taliban as early as 1995 before they took over governing Afghanistan. That was they year they snuck across the border to the NWFP and they have never looked back.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
The Taliban were supported by many initially because they brought order and were not corrupt. However, their subsequent actions, including closing schools for girls and arbitrary justice turned the people against them.
Afghanistan is a feudal and tribal society. It is nigh on impossible to bring any semblence of democracy to the country.
never support them. But I also believe people get the government they think they want and that they deserve. That is what is happening in Afghanistan. Any revolt to change that has to happen from within.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I always recall overhearing a conversation in Saudi.. One guy was going on about how great the Taliban were. Anothe asked the simple question "Would you let your family live under Taliban rule ?"
The answer was a firm NO! :O)
mmyke : Whatever our reasons for going there, the sad fact is that we have continued to support corrupt warlords and propped up a corrupt president. Our soldiers have give their lives in vain. Time to get out.
when it matters to the west all elections are either termed stolen or clean. As if they know better
at the bottom of the barrel, you are at the bottom of the barrel,,,,questions regarding the subjectivity of standards are raised only in the 3rd world...
You're entitled to your opinion no matter how bigoted it is. I'm done trying to prove otherwise, but I had to point this out for the laughs... If Mars is a Chinese or Saudi bailout loan, yeah, the west is sure pushin'
a break.
truly ignorant why the standards of whom? who is the authority here? so you believe in absolutes? standards are standards because you say so.
had anything to do with Canada or vice-versa....let them now return to their truly miserable lives while the west pushes for Mars,,,,they are the most truly ignorant people on earth, and let them stay that way,,,,if a gifted individual rises amongst them, he/she will find a way out, as gifted people always do...
you have no idea what you are talking about...
You went over there to capture a former ally that turned into a foe when things stopped being all hunky dory. Your money and your meddling created the Taliban in the first place. Your good, educated young people... I suspect you mean shining beacons of western civilization like Steven Green? Ever heard of a reality check?
who have been supporting this adventure are now outraged at what has happened. We went over there to assit in stopping the abuse, to bring their culture out of the caves (literally) and into the sun,,,to build schools, develop the institutions to promote a civil society,,,,instead we have the most ignorant people on earth continuing their pitiful lives at the expense of our good, educated, young people.
Time to pull out and let these terrible people live their terrible lives as they see fit.
an important question: who shud pull out da ql?
"Once again WE support a corrupt president just to further our own ends"
who iz WE?
Seems like you folks think the Taliban were a legit and agreeable government... Would you approve of such a government in your own countries? Would you like your daughters and sisters being deprived of school and employment, your footballs and chessboards taken away, no music, no TV, no movies, no culture?
The Taliban were rather perniciously devised by a meeting of three interest spheres. It is only just that they pull their sleeves up and stick their arms elbow deep in the mud that they offered the Afghan people as a stable system of government and society. I do not support any troop pullouts until Afghanistan is a normal country. Or at least, what it was before the war against communism began. That will probably require absolute eradication of the Taliban and most importantly their ideological breeding grounds. Extreme conditions demand extreme responses.
It's past time to get out and leave them to their own misery.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
own devices. Then it will be on them to control their extremists so they keep the mayhem within their borders. I just don't believe there is anything that will be achieved by staying there.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
salax: yup.
legalpad: you missed the point or you implied it in such a way that i could not get it. maybe its late.
The TALIBAN in my book they are just a bunch of thugs, cold killers and using Islam as an excuse for their cause. Specially the innocent people which are use as shields or treating in killing their families.
In war everything suffers, the commander had no choice in the bombing.
Graduated from Xavier Institute for Higher learning.
I guess humour, just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder...or understanding, in this case. By Alexa ( as I do not plagiarize)
The Allies have pulled out of Iraq and the same will happen in Afghanistan.. Just a matter of time..
britexpat: who disputes that? but is the world of politics that honest and simple. no. in 1857, people of the subcontinent fought for their freedom against the 'raj' but when did britain pull out and why? am sure you know more about that than i do. we also know what happened in vietnam.
i agree with you that ideally, we should admit our faults but is it really a fault in the eyes of british politicians?
Need the courage !
I am sure the politicians and their spin doctors can dress it up, but sometimes it is better to just stand up and say "we were wrong"
watched that on bbc last night. to me its more of a word game now.
i dont know what future holds and i am likely to be proven wrong but pulling out of afghanistan for britain at this stage is more like accepting defeat (i do not refer to the public, they are above it). britain is the second world power and pulling out would be a blow for global political stage setup by world powers.
during my university days, nearly 6-7 years ago, my LSE professor used to say that britian was going to learn the lesson the hard way for going into afghanistan. it did not seem that way at the time. would russia ever go back in? if not, why not?
Need freedom
Democracy will ultimately develop.