Lebanon, the history, Small, Nice, Creative Country all this is 10425 KM2

I think.....

i dont really get it. How come lebanese are so obnoxious and racist. Some of them are snobs too. Look.. when you live in a glass house, gotta stop spitting on those well built ones you know. Indian-subcontinental people come from a strong democracy and a better off economy than the war torn lebanese. When the war comes. What do you do? You flee and take refuge somewhere else permanently. You gotta respect others to blend into the society. Try obnoxiousness or being a snob elsewhere. I dont think it will take you far

cheers

xyned

I was waiting for a reply by at least one of the concerned guys regarding my previous post...

Good night!

Guys, after all the false conceptions you have about me (e46M3) I still enjoy coming back home late at night after having a couple of beers in Gemayze street here in Beirut! I am half German and half Lebanese but I do consider myself an Arab nationalist who would love to see Lebanon and Palestine freed from Israeli occupation .

I am still waiting to write to you e46M3 by using your first real name…

I support and defend Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine because they are the only “effective” organizations left at the moment who are and can confront Israel and the US. I support them in their resistance as long as Israel is not giving us Arabs our rights back! I certainly do not support Hamas when it comes to STATE BUILDING since I do enjoy my beers too much. But where is there a STATE in PALESTINE to worry about this now???

I really wish that we still had secular (like me!!!) resistance fighters and leaders like Marwan Barghoti and Samir al Kantar and Gamal ab AL Nasser but unfortunately the secular Arab movements lost their faith and determination in resisting Israel and fighting for the nonnegotiable rights of the Arab people in Palestine and Lebanon. Instead those secular Arab movements drifted into corruption and the love of authority and power. The real secular Heroes like Barghoti who would never compromise the rights of their people sit in Israeli Jail while the corrupt pro US servants sit in a royal Palace in Ramallah!

Let Israel free Barghoti today before tomorrow and I am sure he can revive the Palestinian secular movements to fight Israel and fight the sick corruption prevailing in Fatah under Mahmud Abbas! But why would Israel want to do something that will hurt itself?

Jadenblack started his/her post with what I call a simple 101 political science question!

He/she asked: What does Lebanon have that the US needs to conspire for?

Very Simple, Lebanon has a successful resistance (Hezbollah) who today (and yesterday) pose a real threat to Israel in its own backyard! Furthermore, the success of Hezbollah (Also known to the US STATE DEPARTMENT as the A-TEAM OF TERORRISTS!!!)

presents a dangerous model to follow and imitate for any Arab who wants to resist Israel! Hamas in the last 7 years started copying and learning from Hezbollah in its resistance activity! This is very dangerous to Israel and the US who is Israel’s babysitter in the region! Most Arabs have nothing against the American people, and if the US gov. could get its act right in the region and stop its double standards, we would have no problem with the US gov.

You guys brag about how nice the US is by providing the Lebanese army with weapons and think the US is doing us a favor! Wow I can’t imagine how naïve you are!

Of course the US will send Light military hardware (like artillery shells, M-16 rifles etc…) to Lebanon in order for us to flush out those Qaida style terrorists but will the US give us (Lebanese army) the right military hardware to confront the daily Israeli aggression? Daily the Leb. air space is being violated or Israeli land incursions and we have no military hardware to counter this aggression! I want somebody to answer me this question! Just a reminder JADENBLACK, the US sent Israel laser guided missiles to kill innocent Lebanese and destroy Lebanon last summer! I am fed up with your sadistic “crusader” government that vetoed a UN resolution to investigate the Jenin Massacre committed by the Israeli army!

Iran has offered weapons to the Lebanese army to use in its fight against Fatah al Islam but of course there is a political decision (by March 14) not to accept such help coz the US strictly forbids it! The Lebanese army must stay dependent on US military hardware so it can not do anything against US interests, like firing back at Israeli war planes or tanks!

You all must understand that Hezbollah’s sole role is to fight and resist Israel. Hezbollah after 1990 never used its guns against Lebanese citizens. A good example is the case of 1993 when at a anti-Oslo demonstration 8 Hezbollah demonstrators were killed by the Leb. security forces! Hezbollah leadership acted wisely and forbid retaliation for these unjustifiable killings. Another case is after the liberation of the south when Hezbollah did not retaliate against Lahad traitors and handed them over to the Leb. security forces. Hezbollah can not fight Fatah al Islam since Fatah al Islam is a Sunni fundamentalist movement (%70 Lebanese Sunnis) and this would ignite sectarian violence. It is a trap set up by Harirri and Saudi Arabia!

Again I call for a tribunal to investigate the financers and creators of Fatah al Islam! Interestingly nobody of you seems interested in this matter! You just want to blame Syria until Judgment Day has come (Maybe then you realize the truth) and lash out at Hezbollah!

Jadenblack, the US Marines killed in Lebanon in 1983 was the fault of your administration. They were sent by Reagan to Lebanon to take sides with the Leb. President of Amin Gumayel and not to be neutral as they claimed! The Italian peace keepers were respected in Lebanon and not attacked becoz they stayed neutral in the labyrinth of Lebanese politics and conflicts! You should have stayed neutral and not fire with the New Jersey gun boat on Leb. who were opposed to you presence! It is also time for you army to get out of Iraq before you have 4000 innocent soldiers killed! They must suffer in Iraq or elsewhere in the world while your President Bush never fought a real battle or as Clinton, having a good time with Monica Lewinsky in the highest office in America! They should be made to suffer and not the poor kid from Harlem serving in the army to get killed for no reason. Your society should first fix its problems at home before going out claiming to fix the problems of others!

I know that I am wasting my time trying to explain to you how I see things in the ME since you and I, will keep disagreeing on this hot topic. But I do want to present my case to you and let you know that there are a lot of Arabs who think like me!

Plz keep in mind, I do not have any personal problems with you, just political ones! Take care

just have a little remark to your post..

You are absolutely right that US is providing Lebanon with weapons. I mentioned that too in my post. But US is not doing all this because they love Lebanon or because they feel sorry for all the killings. They are just supporting the Lebanese government, who is fighting the Syrian influence and killing in Lebanon, because it serves the US and Israeli plans.

The Lebanese has said several times that they do not mind getting help from US, but never will Lebanon not turn into Bosnian, Kosovo or Afghanistan where the respective government's serve US.

Regarding the US people who lost their lives in Lebanon..are you talking about the embassy incident in the 1982?? In case you are referring to the 1980's, then you must know why they lost their lives. Occupation by any foreign country in Lebanon is unacceptable. nor accepting Lebanon as a battlefield for Syria/Iran and US/Israel.

Good to know that you have had good experience with Leb people. You should visit Lebanon in the winter and try skiing.. Unbelievable nice

Qais is jus pro anything Islamic and anything else is Zionist infiltrated and worthless.

talking about switching from one side to another. Your dear friend Aoun was hiding from Syrian's for years in Marseille.. After the killing of Hariri he is back and best friends with Syria and true supporter of Hezbollah. Everyone was amazed.

But I gues as they say....if you can't beat them, then join them!!

But like you probably have noticed, Aoun is changing his policy now..Now he is leaning towards 14 March because they might elect him as President. Now he is all of sudden not attacking 14 March so much, and he is having meetings with them and stating they they all are making progress blah blah.

And by the way.. Lebanon received alot of weapon by the US when hell broke out in Nahr al Bared.. The army couldn't beat them with their poor weapon. In stead of getting help from inside the country, by..lets say Hezbollah...US had to send 2 flights right away to help the army.

You said: And if the US was a friend of Lebanon why don’t they tell the Israelis to stop violating Leb. airspace and free our prisoners or give the Leb. army rockets or fighter jets? Saniora or a Slave can not demand anything from his Mastser!

I totally agree, and that is why Lebanon and Saniora are not slaves for US or any foreign power. The government is keep saying.. and in the face of US. We do not do like US or France want us to do. We decide what we do, and we don't do. that does not sound as a slave speaking. However, the actions speak for itself.

Regarding Fatah el Islam.. if Hezbollah was interested in fighting with Fatah el Islam against Israel, they would have allowed sunni's in their hizib. Hezbollah has always said that they don't need anyones help..

But let's say that Hezbollah had agreed with Fatah el Islam to fight with them etc etc. I am sure Hezbollah would have interfered now between the army and Fatah el Islam. Or is it because Fatah el Islam is sunni since Hezbollah hasn't taken any action.

Regarding Shibaa farms... Let Syria first admit that the Shibaa farms belong to Lebanon!! Let Syria draw the boarder map showing and admitting that Shibaa belong to Lebanon.

By the way... why does it say Germany on your profile??

Why is everone being so mean. Everytime i read a thread it turns into a mean argument b/w people? Hasnt anyone learnt that two topics you cant ever find a solution for is religion and politic?

Xyned? Your comment of u cowards deserve everything you get is just plain mean and heartless. Amongst all the politices of whos right and whos wrong, the only people who are really suffering are the innocent people who live in leb, whos families are dying everyday due to politics and that includes children. So all the children who died in lebanon desereved this??? Its easy for you to say living in your safe aussie country but have a heart and some respect whos families have died purely for the fact that they live in a country where politics is rife? Have a heart?

How is it the US comes into this? What does Lebanon have that the US needs to conspire for? I admit the US has a fault in blindly supporting Israel at times (too many times), but the US has also done a lot do reign in Israel. The US has also helped Lebanon in many ways and is a friend of Lebanon. The Israelis, Palestinians, Syrians, political, and religious militias within Lebanon have all played a larger role in destroying cities and killing innocent people than the US has. Don't forget that the US lost people in Lebanon as well from Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and even Israel. However, even whe it is possible to identify the aggressors, you still have to look beyond and see who is supporting them and once this is done, at least in the case of Lebanon, it is hard to pin the blame. In the past, the Syrians were invited to Lebanon, requested by the Lebanese government for help, as was the US, even Israel was welcomed into Beirut with rose water and fanfare. Lebanese political parties courted all of these regional and international powers and used or attempted to use them for their own political aims. This cannot be denied. Robert Fisk used the term, "The Plot," when referring to the way the Lebanese point fingers at everyone else. I think this has some accuracy. However, there is n doubt that powers outside of Lebanon have and continue to cause Lebanon problems. The US cannot be completely exonerated from making bad policy calls, but it is also wrong to say that the US is involved in a conspiracy to destroy Lebanon when there are so many other players who have done so much more to harm Lebanon (even within its own borders). It is also wrong to assume that the US can control Israel or think that Israel is a puppet of the US or even to believe that Israel is an extension of US policy. Israel is a sovereign nation that has the free will to make its own blunders and to commit its own crimes and hopefully the ability to make peace with its own neighbors.

As for now, who do you think is providing the Lebanese military with weapons and ammunition to fend off and defeat Fatah al-Islam? It is the US by far and large. It is the US who is putting their ships and citizens lives, once again, in the crosshairs of extremists to help out its friends. It makes me sad that the Lebanese posters on this website fail to see that. It makes me sad, but not surprised, to read the posts of Lebanese members condemn me and the US for events that the US had such a minor part in. Regardless, I hope the moral majority in Lebanon can be empowered, not by any external power, to political imminence so that Lebanon can truly be free of international intrigue (The Plot) and agendas other than their own.

Lastly, I have a few Lebanese friends and I love the ancient history of Lebanon. I find its contemporary history tragic and I truly hope that Lebanon can find the peace and stability that its non-politically affiliated masses deserve. I have also read a few books on Lebanon, I have been in a car accident with a Lebanese man (here in Doha), and as I mentioned before I have a few Lebanese friends. Honestly, even the car accident, all my experiences with Lebanon have been pleasant. I hope to visit one day.

I really don’t have the time to go over every question and point you had in your first opinion post. If you meant the issue of Lebanese prisoners in Syria you can really count on my support to get this humanitarian issue resolved with Syria as soon as possible. But how can we resolve this issue when we have a Leb. gov. that is non stop hostile to Syria and blames all crimes that happened in Lebanon on Syria. I am not a lawyer of Syria and I stand behind the Free Patriotic Movement (General Aoun) on this issue. Also since Syria is an Arab country I don’t believe that we should start a war against them to get out any left prisoners! Syria is not Israel and we need to talk to them about this issue and I am sure they will accept to release the remaining Leb. in Syrian jails once we have good relations with them!

Unlike most of March 14 forces, I was against the occupation of Syrian troops in Lebanon. Walid Jumblat once said “The door of Damascus starts and opens in Muchtara” and the Future Movement handed over the Keys of Beirut (Symbolic celebration) to the Head of the Syrian Muchabarat (secret service) in Lebnaon. How can you explain those things do any Lebanese? I guess they were forced with a gun on their heads to treat the Syrians super nice! While I was having my ass kicked around by Lebanese security forces opposing Syrian Hegemony over Lebanon, Walid Jumblat etc… were eating breakfast, lunch and dinner in Anjar with Gazi Kann’an and Ghustum Gazali! My friend, I am not blind to see the real picture of the Future Movement and Walid Jumblat. They switched their masters once they realized that the wind is blowing from the West (US) to the East and not from the East (Syria) to the West. This is not patriotism! This is self interest and the love of power and authority!

I know we won’t come to an agreement regarding the STATE or People who stand behind Fatah al ISLAM, but its interesting to know that most of the leadership entered Lebanon via Beirut Int. Airport which is under tight control of the gov. security forces!

I don’t see why Simon Hirsh would want to lie about Prince Bandar’s and Harirri’s involvement with this Sunni fundamentalist group! Hirsh has uncovered many secrets in the past and he has close ties to US secret sources….Interesting MAN with interesting information… I think we should have an International Tribunal into this matter also!!!

Interesting to know also that ABU Jandal (Fatah al ISLAM accountant who is a Lebanese) was shot and killed by Internal Security forces in his home town in the NORTH while standing at a store with friends! I would like to know what information he possessed regarding the financing of Fatah al ISLAM that he was killed by the ISF?

Fatah Islam is compromised mostly by Lebanese Sunnins followed by Saudis, Sunni Syrians, then Jordanians and at the very end Palestinians. Hard to imagine they all follow the orders of Syrian Muchabarat.

In my opinion, Fatah Islam was created by Saudi, Harriri and US to counter the Shia Hezbollah. They created this Monster and the monster got out of control because the Monster was not interested in fighting SHIA Hezbollah. Instead Fatah ISLAM was interested in opening up a Sunni front along side Hezbollah in the south to fight Isreal which was TOTALLY not the purpose of it according to US, Saudi and Harri who then stopped the funding. The MONSTER got hungry and went to EAT from the Mediterranean Bank (Harirri’s bank) which stopped the money…Well they helped themselves by robbing this BANK and it all started ….Now our National army has to deal with this problem because of Harirri and Saudi/US !!! I demand a Tribunal for the funding of Fatah al Islam!

I did not say the Leb. army was working for Israel during the war! This is what I said:

You claim everyone supported Hezbollah in its war against Israel last summer!!!!

Hmmmmmmmm, why then did the Lebanese army and Lebanese Internal security forces stop a loaden katusha truck heading to the South during the war??? Hezbollah is still waiting for this truck!!!! Why did the internal security forces in the south welcome Israeli soldiers and became their TEA BOYS! I guess they were supporting Hezbollah by offering Israeli soldiers Lebanese hospitality!

They stoped a truck full with weapons heading to the south? Why?

The ISF and not the army were offering TEA in a southern village to Israeli soldiers and I consider them TEA BOYS! What a shame!!!!

Regarding negotiations between Israel and Syria, it was fist mentioned by the Israeli press. I doubt it is true but even if, at least Syria does not sell out to Israel (unlike Jordan and Egypt). Syria is demanding back every single inch of the Golans and nothing less!

Saniora is not even demanding the return of the Leb. prisoners in Israel! Well he not doing anything regarding this issue…. Since Feldman (US Ambassador to Lebanon) is a regular guest, why does he never bring up this issue? And if the US was a friend of Lebanon why don’t they tell the Israelis to stop violating Leb. airspace and free our prisoners or give the Leb. army rockets or fighter jets? Saniora or a Slave can not demand anything from his Mastser!

In 2 years form now things will be different in Lebanon. Adios Saniora and Adios Lebanese Forces. Gaga will be back in prison for the assassination of former PM Rachid Karame and Saniora won’t dream of the PM ever again! Aoun will be our next President and to Hell with Lahud! Hezbollah will still be our resistance until the Leb. army can get the arms and the know how to fight the Israelis or until Israel frees our prisoners and give back the Shibaa farms!!! Mark my words!!!

ohhh yes.. you said: WORDS are cheap my friend, what we need is ACTION!

mashallah 3ala el action from Syria who has been negotiating openly with Israel. from the war last year until now.. mashallah 3ala el patriotisme!! covering their own ass!! Negotiating about Iraq, Golan and Hezbollah...

I noticed there were a lot of points I mentioned in my previous comment you didn't respond on.. you know which one...but its ok :-)

Fatah el Islam, consisting of 200 men from various Arabic countries, is supported by saudi and hariri to stand up towards Hezbollah???? that is not realistic at all..and no!! not 70% are sunni Lebanese.. Approx 50 people are sunni Lebanese and rest are mostly Syrian and Saudi's..and some Jordanian..

And by the way..the leader of Fatah al Islam, Shaker Al Absi, was sentenced to death for his crime in Jordan, u remember?? but was released by the Syrian's... surprise surprise! and then he came to Lebanon..

You are right regarding that on one side we have US/Europe and Syria/Iran on the other side..The Lebanese goverment is saying that we won't take orders from any country. We welcome any help and suggestions, and we (the Lebanese government)decide if we want to follow those suggestions or not..

Look... Lebanon tried being under Syrian control.. and in my opinion people suffered.. the freedom of speach was unknown completely during that time.. no way do the Lebanese people wanna go back to that time. You probably don't mind going back.. that's your view. Maybe you should move from Hamra to damascus :-)

Syria's role in Lebanon developed dramastically from 1991-2004..

In the begining they were only supposed to protect the country from Israel. But then they started taking over the national security, try dominating the Lebanese politic and interfer in people's daily life.

The Lebanese President Emil Lahoud, that dog, was elected by the Syrian's for 2 period's..who dared say no to Syria.

What are you talking about.. The lebanese army working for Israel and serving as Tea Boys?? maybe in your wildest dreams about the army guys! hehehe...

You know the statistic of the army people killed during the war.

And, for the first time for more than 20 years the Lebanese Army was back in Jnoub..

By the way, regarding helping Hezbollah fighting Israel during the war last summer. you know pretty well that many sunni fighters in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi and Syria wanted to join Hezbollah..but were denied!!!! why???? because they are not shia!! Hezbollah preferred having Iranian's fighting.. hundreds/thousands of Iranian's where fighting with Hezbollah.. but not a single Sunni Arab..

I wish Hezbollah was for Lebanon and Lebanon only. i don't want Hezbollah destroyed. I want them to work for the Lebanese case only.

Because now, if Iran or Syria says: Ya Hezbollah, yallah attack Israel.. they will attack without hesitating..

I don't want Lebanon to be battle field for other countries! That's what it has become unfortunately..

If Syria or Iran want to destroy Israel, then let them fight from their country. When the war began last summer, Israeli air craft circled around Bashar's castle, just to show him how easy it is to take him out.. but he of course denied this incidence.

If Bashar or Ahmadineja were true patriotic, they would have fought with Hezbollah.. or at least admitted that they support Hezbollah's actions, but not even that did they do.

Mean while, all the Lebanese minister's were saying on TV that they support Hezbollah against the number 1 enemy.

Anyways, take care of yourself and I sincerely don't hope you or any other Lebanese will experience any harm

It is a shame that Hezbollah is involved in all this.

no hockey pockey here. You lebs have been toying with our feelings far too much. Its time we say. You get what you deserve you cowards.

UK M25,

But I guess you assumed I was a SHIA from Dahia just because of my political views. Amazing HA!!!!! There are still Beirutis who support Hezbollah!

UK M25,

You are mistaken when you say “it is really amazing.. that all the killed people so far from the Hariri murder have been anti-syrian people.. soooo damn amazing.. not a single murder on a pro-Syrian.. not a single bomb in a pro-Syrian areas.. you must agree, that is damn amazing!!!”

If you are following Leb. events closer, you would realize that 2 members of Jihal Al Islam were killed next to their office in Saida last year!

Anyways you seem to have a big problem with Syria and regard the Syrian regime as an Enemy to Lebanon. Lebanon is not immune to the political and historical development in the region. The region is witnessing a big power struggle between the US/ Israel and Syria/ Iran and naturally Hezbollah openly and proudly stands by the side of Syria and Iran. After all weapons to fight Israel are coming form Iran through Syria! There would not be need for such weapons if the US told Israel to make “real and fair” peace with Lebanon and Palestine.

On the contrary, the US are using its “temporal” allies in the region to support its selfish interests (Israel’s as well) and Hezbollah on the other side is countering them as much as possible. The US sooner or later (most probably after Bush leaves office) will drop its “temporal” allies in Lebanon and elsewhere as soon as an understanding is reached with Damascus and Tehran regarding Iraq. Lebanon paid a price before in 1991 when the US served Lebanon on a golden plate to Hafiz Al Assad coz of his support in the 2nd Gulf war.

Interestingly 90 % of the March 14 forces were the best friends of Syria in Lebanon. How time changes interests!!!

You claim that fatah Al Islam is working for Syria. I claim Fatah Islam was paid and created by the Harirri family and Prince Bandar from Saudi to nourish as an armed Sunni fundamentalist force to counter the Shia Hezbollah in Lebanon. I am a Sunni and I am ashamed to see that 70 % of Fatah Islam are Lebanese Sunnis….Could you please explain to me why Lebanese and Saudi Sunni fundamentalists are prepared to die for Alliwite Syria and Bashar al Asad???

You claim everyone supported Hezbollah in its war against Israel last summer!!!!

Hmmmmmmmm, why then did the Lebanese army and Lebanese Internal security forces stop a loaden katusha truck heading to the South during the war??? Hezbollah is still waiting for this truck!!!! Why did the internal security forces in the south welcome Israeli soldiers and became their TEA BOYS! I guess they were supporting Hezbollah by offering Israeli soldiers Lebanese hospitality!

WORDS are cheap my friend, what we need is ACTION!

Oh and by the way, my house is in Hamra!!! And Yes I feel safe here as long as I know Beirut still has Arab Nationalist blood criculating in its streets!

No one is blaming Hezbollah for the killings since the politicians, esp. 14 Adar don't wanna create further internal crisis in the country. Even though they could be involved, still no one is indicating that.

But you know what.... it is really amazing.. that all the killed people so far from the Hariri murder have been anti-syrian people.. soooo damn amazing.. not a single murder on a pro-Syrian.. not a single bomb in a pro-Syrian areas.. you must agree, that is damn amazing!!!

hmm.....could you please explain me why the shia Muslims were celebrating when Hariri, Gebran twayni, samir Kassir and Pierre Gemayel were killed????? going around celebrating on the streets.... so unhuman!!! To Pierre Gemayal they said while laughing: U deserve it Pierre!!

Like you, I am proud too of Hezbollah resistance towards Israel.. for sure..

BUT..I am disgusted when I see Hezbollah working for Syria and not for Lebanon and its people. I am disgusted when I see Hezbollah as an employee for Syria and Iran. The resistance is fighting for Syria and Iran and not for Lebanon.

The other day you were talking about Hezbollah fought Israel to get Lebanese prisoners like Samir Kuntar out.. But tell me... what about the Lebanese prisoners in Syrian prisons??? why doesn’t Hezbollah try to have the Lebanese prisoners released??

And now, when the Lebanese army is getting slaughtered in Nahr el Bared with Fath el Islam. Why doesn't Hezbollah interfere and take responsibility as Lebanese freedom fighters?? I tell you why.. It is because Fath el Islam, may they burn in hell, are supported by Syria. Hezbollah can of course not fight Fath el Islam as that would be like fighting Syria..

The Lebanese army helped Hezbollah last summer during the war and was bombed too by the Israeli army. Now when the Lebanese army is attacked, every citizen should support the army as every attack on the army is an attack on the Lebanese society, democracy and freedom.

Hezbollah is saying that this war with Fath el Islam is not its war!! aha...interesting..so when Hezbollah began the war last summer did all the Lebanese parties say: Ohh this is not our war, so we won't intervene!!!???? noooo way.. everyone supported Hezbollah against the tyrani of Israel.

Lebanon has always said: We are the last country in the world who will sign any peace agreement with Israel!! Israel is our enemy number one!!

What about all the Lebanese ministers who have being assassinated druing the last 2 years. Please tell me why the pro-Syrian Lebanese are against an election to replace these assassinated people??? It doesn't feel like a loss for the pro Syrians but more as a victory! In my opinion, everyone who are against this kind of election are indirectly responsible in the killings!!!

anyways..you take care in Lebanon.. and I am sure where you are living in Lebanon, there won't be any killings..

Lebanon is a labyrinth full of diverse and competing secret services. Ellie Hubaika, a criminal war lord loyal to Syria, was killed in 2001 by a car bomb even though Syria was still occupying Lebanese Land and the country was supposedly in the hands of the Syrian Mukhabarat! he was preparing himself to testify against Sharon for his part in the Sabra/Shatila massacre in a court in Belgium. All what I am saying "Anybody could be behind these killings in Lebanon and we should not blame 1 country or president for all what is happening here"! We lebanese need Syria (our only land border with an Arab country) more than Syria needs Lebanon...

Let us not blame people without having found the slightest evidence.

It is a shame for us Lebanese, that after 20 bombings we still can not find one link or evidence of those criminals. I think we are putting too much effort into balming eachother and friends, while the US and Israel are having a good time seeing the Leb. fight each other again! Let us be aware of our Real enemies!

I know you didnt talk to ME unpolitly, but just as you are in a public forum, you should never speak sooo unprofessional if i may say,.

Its your life i presume, but i dont like people who say such offensive things when replying or talking to me

Hezbullah are bad people or not giving them credit, all that im saying is that Stop following politics here and there,

and of course people will think that hezbullah is behind the last bombing, because till now no one from the hezbullah group has been targeted and this is a clever thing done to make more trouble in lebanon..

Wake up people, some other country is doing this dispute so that they can take over our country

No-one mentioned all that delicious Lebanese food!!!!!

My personal favourite is Tabbouleh - I could live on it!

I found this extract in Wikipedia:

"The largest recorded bowl of tabbouleh was made on June 9, 2006 in Ramallah, West Bank.

The previous record was set on February 24, 2001 in Qornet Shahwan, Lebanon. It weighed 1,514 kilograms (3,348 lbs) and earned a Guinness World Record".

Now .... I've made tabbouleh BY HAND (no robot chef used lol) and I can tell you that 3,348 lbs is one HECK of a lot of parsley!!!

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Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby - The Water Babies

Ghina,

I am currenlty in lebanon and I am living the horrible situation here.

I am not a blind Hezbollah supporter ( I am not a Shia and I do not pray!) but I do think that all patriotic Lebanese should be proud of Hezbollah's resistance against Israel. Yes, branding Hezbollah as a Militia or gang is an unpatriotic thing to do.

Unfortunately in Lebanon we have a deeply divided National identity crisis that is ruoining our country. The confessional system helps to fuel the crisis and we Lebanese are to blame for this!

Already I am hearing some Leb. people say Hezbollah is behind the latest assasination. Plz stop blaming fellow Leb. who have a history of heroic resistance against the enemy of all Arabs; Israel!

i mention a politics so dont take it personal please ....

I dont think that im my reply to your post i ever cursed or said something unpolite, and please i would respect if you would reply back to me in a respectable manner, in the end we are not play buddies for you to reply back in this way

second, No lebanese is happy of the current situation, but most lebanese that i know tend to make a fuss out of everything and fight because of their differentail political views. and that is what is happening in lebanon.

we are not happy even if we r save here,life during war and under the bumb is beter from living here or in all gulf.i lived all the war and i was there and i was supporting and helping,we never afraid we come here to work not to escape from war and about the politics [Edited for Language]they killed our country and the starnge ppl in lebanon.

who cares for politics they r stupid and the one who follow them is more stupid..............

and Mocking and telling jokes, While Lebanon is on a crisis right now, So You all Lebanese who think that you are a pure Lebanese stop this joking around and support your country, and not just talk that hezbullah is the best or aoun is the best or hariri is the best

Look what is happening, im sure that you are happy because you are not living it, and not seeing, but you are blindly following politicians here and there while they are destroying your country

Are you happy that you are safe in doha while your families are suffering from lack of electricity, or fearing that a bomb might explode anywhere near their jobs, or maybe they are at the beach having a blast of their time

Wake up lebanese, Wake up and dont blindy follow any party

You know, Qais, we've got lots of silly adult teenagers on the site with handles like diamondgirl, superexpat, king edshel, cute-guy, Amaru Immortal, TweetyBird, C00L and so many more.

We can't all be serious all the time. So what's with another one that represents a machine. I'm out of this thread. See you around.

I certainly don't know or care what car you drive or if you even own a car...but having a user name or nick e46M3 reminds me of teenager chat sites where they use silly nicknames to impress others. Now plz tell me your "e46M3" is not for the BMW...

You're just a regular clairvoyant, one who knows what I drive, who my friends are, decides whether I'm a patriot or not and what history will bring. A latter-day oracle.

And I'm not your dear.

No my dear I can not have divine powers on my side as I don't even pray....

History is the judge!

And watch out for the next roundabout, it might wreck your super car!

You're obviously the judge. You have divine powers on your side. Who am I to argue?

You must know best what you are and what not!

But for sure the term "patriot" does not apply to you or Atallah...

patriotism is a term reserved for peopole who stand behind the Nation's resistance against an enemy such as Israel. In your world "Hezbollah seems to be the aggressor and trouble maker" whereas in my world it is Israel. Has Israel chnaged its character or behavior since 1982 with the Lebanese or Arabs? Israel hasn't changed a bit from 1982 or 1947!

Yeah ok. I'm a Zionist agent with imperialist friends.

You seem to be friends with Western Journalists as Thomas Friedman and CO. Unlike you I care even what people like T. Friedman have to say in order to build up my own counter argument. Something you "DO NOT CARE ABOUT and don't care as ferry tale teller R. Fisk!

To believe that Hezbollah wrecked the country by its last operation to hold Israeli soldiers in exchange for the Leb. prisoners is another great Hollywood story you and a bunch of other journalists/politicians want every one to believe in order to put the blame on Hezbollah and the resistance. Are you politically really that naive?

The war on Lebanon was prepared by the US and Israel since a long time before Hezbollah's capture operation and you can follow the details in the archives of major US papers.

Ellias Atallah is such a great Lebanese "patriot" that he (together with Marwan Hamade) gets praises by the Israeli ambassador to the UN in New York while Lebanese kids were being massacred in Lebanon and Palestine.

If Israel wanted to kill Arafat they surely could have and would have if they ONLY wanted him Dead at that time!

Arfat is a man who loves "prime time" and loves showing himself on Camera. He would not miss the opportunity to be seen on TV while he leaves Beirut after his last stand there, just as Walid Jumblat could not miss this opportunity! Of course they both got the assurences that nothing would happen to them and no Israeli plane would throw a 1 ton bomb on them!

You forget that Nasrallah fought many times in battle against Israel and nobody really knows where he was during the war! He could have been in a secure place and I really hope so coz he is too important to be killed in action after all the leadership skills he posses. He might as well have been in the south, close to his fighters! Who knows? well at least he was not receiving praises form an Israeli UN ambassador. Hezbollah has lost a great leader (Musawi) in an Israeli assasination and I hope they have learned from their past mistakes. I know people like you would like to see a great leader like Nassrallah to be dead and this is for you own interest! But Nassrahllah has nothing to prove to you or your think alikes. To his supporters he is a Hero under whoese leadership the Israeli army has painfuly withdrwan from Arab land for the first time without any concessions in return. May GOD protect him and all people who fight for their freedom, country and honor!

You won't find it. That's answering your last point first.

As for Robert Fisk, he has a reputation among his fellow Western journalists, many of whom are sympathizers with Arab causes, as someone who sees what no one else does. I've met him and met others but what do I know, I'm not an intellectual so I'll leave intellect to you.

According to the United Nations Israel completed its withdrawal from Lebanese territory in 2000. You are pointing to the Shebaa Farms which are considered occupied Syrian territory by the international community.

Samir al-Kantar is not a communist, he was a member of of the Palestinian Liberation Front headed by the late Abu al-Abbas.

And, yeah, why not, for 3 POWs we'll wreck the whole country. Great argument.

As for the rest of your argument that's the political rhetoric that fills the pages of newspapers, airwaves on TV and radio and occupies people's minds; fruitless.

I have one "where was he?' question.

Since you are going to watch the documentary again also go back one episode and watch it.

You'll see Yasser Arafat in a besieged Beirut with the Israelis gunning for him in various places around the city with spies pinpointing his position and planes trying to track his every move, but he's out there in public. That's where a leader should be and what he should do.

On the other hand someone was sorely missing from the public eye during last summer's war after provoking the whole fiasco.

No I don't believe Pity the Nation to be a Gospel of truth, but I do believe that some one who says: "I do not care what Robert Fisk says" is not an intellectual person. Not that Robert Fisk is the international standard to measure intellectuality but anyone who wants to know about Lebanon or the Middle East should CARE about people like Robert Fisk!

There should not be anything political about the right to defend your country and free your oppressed people from occupation and imprisonment. Israel is still occupying lebanese land and holding prisoners. Here is a lesson of PATRIOTISM:

It is sad to see how Israel cares about its dead soldiers (Ron Arad) more than some Lebanese do about living Leb. captive resistance fighters/Heroes who are not even Hezbollah fighters but Communist (Samir al Kantar). Where is Ellias Atallah today? did he ever bring up this issue of Leb. prisoners with his new buddy Feldman at his various meetings with US embassy officials and envoys? ,Where was he last summer when Israel cowardly killed innocent children with bombs too scared to launch an infantry or land invasion? Was he at the front lines? or at the doors of the US Embassy?

What has politics to do with standing united in the face of the aggressor that knows no language exept for the language of force and resistance? What has politics to do with celebrating EID AL TAHRIR (liberation Day) and making sure that our left behind Leb. captives get back to their families? Hezbollah has succeeded in the past and will succeed again in the future. But if all Lebanese stand united together we can make this victory happen sooner than later...

I will surely get back to you after I watch the Jazeera doc. and I will piont out to you the epsisode that mentions the fighting done by Islamic Amal who became later Hezbollah!

So you read a book by Robert Fisk and take it as the gospel truth. I doubt you watched the War of Lebanon documentary you're talking about. Watch it again, dic 3 on the DVD episode 9 in the series. And if you've watched it I suggest you pay close attention this time. You'll find out who was resisting and who wasn't.

Atallah didn't turn his back on anything. Who says Hezbollah have a monopoly on Lebanese patriotism? You can't take away someone's patriotism because they disagree with your political aims.

You're a Hezbollah supporter, I'm not. But next time you want to argue a point do it without your "roundabout" sarcasm.

They are HEROS.

Hezbollah is one of the few things left in Lebanon that makes me feel proud as a Leb. (who is sunni) and Arab!

You seem to be driving too much around Qatari roundabouts with your E46 M3 my friend, not knowing that Islamic Amal (name changed later in 1983 into Hezbollah) was directly active in the resistance against Israel in 1982 in its own way. If you have a problem with Robert Fisk (note: that journalist has ever reported a lie in his career and that is why the Israelis hate him so much!!!) check out the Al Jazeera documentary about the Leb. civil war! Islamic Amal had its own command and resistance structure which later coordinated its attacks against Israel with the other groups. It is sad to see people like Attallah turn their back on the resistance while Israel started another bloody war against Lebanese civilians last summer! Oh and the best part; not admitting the Leb. Resistance's victory in that war! Even Israel accepted this truth...

Shame on Elias Atallah and all those who turned their backs and are now plotting against Hezbollah!

I thought the Phoenicians were from Phoenix, AZ ???? And didn't Alexander Bell invent Phone-etics? And I know for sure from US history that Plymouth Rock was here first.

Sheesh you guys get your facts straight.

'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

Wrong again. I don't care what Robert Fisk says. The resistance against the Israelis after the 1982 invasion was launched and spearheaded by secular, Leftist groups; the Lebanese Communist Party (LCP), the Communist Action Party (CAP) and the SSNP. The commander of the resistance at the time was a Maronite Christian by the name of Elias Atallah (LCP). His name sound familiar? These are documented facts.

The first resistance communique issued by these groups began with 2 words: "To Arms".

Hezbollah did not come in to the picture until later, and the Leftist resistance groups were withdrwan from the picture at that point, for geo-political reasons.

yeah sure all lebaness fight for lebanon against isreal from 1982 before hozballah and after that hozbala continue this issue ..............so all we fight against isreal....

SamyaUK thanks for ur comment dont afraid i dont care for the idiot comments from crazy ppl ........

When I said Lebanese resistance, I meant all Leb. groups that fought Israel. You are also mistaken when you say "...Long before there was Hez. resistance" In fact and accodrding to Robert Fisk, Hezbollah (still at that time using the name of Islamic Amal which was an off shot of the Amal Movement) was fighting in 1982 independently with the resistance made its first appearance on the Leb. stage! Eventualy Hezbollah became the strongest and most effective Leb. resistance group to fight the Israelis and it makes me feel proud as an Arab to have this reistance...

Not true, Qais. You forget the post 1982 invasion period, occupation of Beirut (the first time an Arab capital was occupied by Israel), Israel's withdrawal from Sidon, Tyre, etc long before there was Hezbollah resistance.

What has the way they pronounce words got to do with anything, i think everyone is just being mean... Cute Guy just ignore them, this is normal on here now, people take the piss out of everything...

There is one major historical fact that all Lebanese and Arabs should feel proud of:

The lebanese resistance (mainly Hezbollah) was the first time, Arabs were able to free their Israeli occupied land wihtout any concessions in return. Unlike Egypt, Lebanon was able to liberate its land without opening an Israeli embassy and developing ties with this aggressor state.

It is sad to see how many Leb. forget to mention this fact or worse whish that the Leb. resisstance would vanish!

Lots of truths in there except; the Lebanese are among the few in the Middle East who can actually pronounce the letter 'P' and don't make a habit of turning it into a 'B'.

The Lebanese mispronounce 'th' as in the, there, that. They take the sound of ze, zere, zat.

That's in common with the French who were the colonial masters for many years.

Funny ......

On a much lighter note, this is for all the Lebanese on these boards...and before anyone jumps down my throat, please remember that its a joke =p

Fundamental principles of Lebanese decadence (By Ralph Hajj)

General Facts:

1) Lebanese society is one of mutual imitation.

1.1) In Lebanon, everybody is observing you and you are observing everybody else.

1.2) In Lebanon, people don't go out to have a good time - they go out to show the community that they're having a good time.

1.3) In Lebanon, people don't buy goods because they like them, but because they think other people like them.

1.4) In Lebanon, fashion and collective hysteria coincide.

1.5) In Lebanon, incapacity to keep up with your neighbors' level of consumption relegates a human being to nothingness or otherness (see Hegel on otherness).

1.6) A Lebanese will go into debt to buy something he doesn't need in order to impress people he doesn't like.

Civil Wars:

2) Some historical Lebanese civil wars: The I-have-a-more-expensive- cellular-than-you wars, The I-have-more-Sri-Lanki-maids-than-you wars, The I-have-a-new-Mercedes wars, The My-Leather-Jacket-is-better-than- yours wars.

Lebanese Contributions to Ethics:

3) A Lebanese has the right to break the law if he sees others breaking the law.

3.1) A Lebanese has the right to throw garbage out of a car window if he sees others throwing garbage from a car's window.

3.2) A Lebanese has the right to smoke in a non-smoking area if he sees others smoking in a non-smoking area.

3.3) A Lebanese knows that it is acceptable to bribe officials when he sees others bribing officials.

3.4) A Lebanese has the right to run a red light if he sees others running a red light.

The Lebanese Constitution:

4) A politician will always pass power to his eldest son.

4.1) A politician will always give his family and his followers government jobs.

4.2) Because of an outside conspiracy unrelated to 4.1, Lebanon has the highest rate of useless public servants in this part of the universe.

4.3) A politician has a duty to enter into conflicts of interest.

4.4) A Lebanese will always vote for a candidate from his village even if he knows that he is a corrupt idiot.

4.5) A Lebanese politician will always promise to fight corruption.

Lebanese Modern Culture:

5) Lebanese modern culture is about conformity to Western ideals and the careful removal of every bit of national originality.

5.1) A Lebanese feels superior to other Lebanese if the goods he consumes do not come from Lebanon.

5.2) A Lebanese has an inherent contempt for everything his country produces.

Poverty and the Class System:

6) In Lebanese society, contempt for the poor is metaphysical.

6.1) The Lebanese class system is fluid and based on the monetary worth of the individual, as a result:

6.2) The Lebanese differentiate themselves very rigidly from those they consider as being part of the lower class.

6.3) In courtship, a Lebanese man will use a woman's poverty as a bargaining chip.

6.4) A Lebanese woman feels insulted if a poorer man asks her out.

6.5) Lebanese society has a caste system in terms of nationalities: Sri Lankans are somewhere on the bottom level, but slightly above garbage, whereas the French are slightly below God.

6.6) A Lebanese will treat a world-renowned Nobel winning Pakistani astrophysicist as garbage and will kiss the foot of a French imbecile (if he happens to have a nice Parisian accent).

Conspiracy:

7) Every single thing wrong in Lebanon is caused by an outside conspiracy.

7.1) A Lebanese is not responsible for the massacres during the civil war even when he was the one doing the shooting.

7.2) Members of Lebanese society will condemn confessionalism as practiced by other confessions, while cheerfully practicing it with other confessions.

7.3) It is always their fault.

Lebanese Superiority:

8) The Lebanese are superior.

8.1) Did you know that Shakespeare was actually Lebanese? (Sheikh Zbeir)

8.2) Did you know that the Lebanese invented the alphabet (and not those slightly-above-garbage morons from the Indian sub-continent)?

8.3) The Lebanese have an inborn knowledge of every single subject in the universe, including medicine and philosophy.

8.4) Every single Lebanese is a board-certified doctor.

8.5) Any Lebanese will prescribe you antibiotics, anti-depressants and sleeping pills if you ask them nicely.

8.6) Because of an outside conspiracy unrelated to 8.5, Lebanon has one of the highest rates of medicinal drug addiction in the world.

8.7) A Lebanese becomes a philosopher after he reads "The Prophet" by K. Gibran.

8.8) "The Prophet" is the second greatest book in history just after the Bible. Did you know that Gibran was Lebanese?

Marriage:

9) A Lebanese man will never marry a woman if she is not a virgin.

9.1) A Lebanese woman will never have sex with a man if she thinks that he is marriage material.

9.2) Unrelated to 9.1, all Lebanese men's wives were virgins before marriage.

9.3) The marriage of a woman is the affair of the whole extended family and of the neighbors.

9.4) Pressure on a woman to get married is applied by the whole extended family and the neighbors.

9.5) An unmarried woman with a Ph.D. is a failure.

You know you are a Lebanese when:

-You look for universities as far away from home as possible.

-You always curse at Arabs when you are back home, but when you live abroad, you only make Arab friends.

-Your dream is holding a different passport.

-When you come back from university you still have to live with your parents, and fight over curfew all over again, as if you never left them before.

-Your relatives alone could populate a small city

-You fight over who pays the dinner bill.

-You teach Westerners to swear words in your language.

-When you go on a date you start thinking of lousy places where nobody would go to so you wont bump into family or friends.

-You end up in a lousy place and still bump into the relative with the biggest mouth.

-If you are 25 and not married yet, your parents make you feel that you are getting too old. Getting married becomes the only way you can escape your parents.

-You tell your friends how to rebel against their parents when you can't even stay out past midnight.

-You always say "Open the light" instead of "Turn the light on" or "get down from the car" instead of "get out of the car."

-You pronounce your p's as b's (bebsi and bolice)

-You ask your dad a simple question and he tells you a story of how he had to walk miles just to get to school.

-Your parents were ranked first in school.

-Your dad swears at you with words that affect himself (Ibnil kalb)

-You tell everyone that you are a "successful businessman back home" when you are really just an unemployed goat herder.

-You feel uncomfortable saying the word 'tease' in English.

-You smoke as if there is no tomorrow and you only smoke Marlboro Reds.

-You only walk on the streets in groups of seven or more people and talk really really loud in Arabic together.

-You wear a black leather jacket, even when it is 100 degrees outside.

-You think its cool to dance and smoke at the same time.

-If you are a Lebanese girl you give the look of death to another girl who looks better than you.

-You make Turkish coffee before leaving home, when getting to the office, after lunch, when having guests, before the guests leave, after the guests leave and before going to bed.

-You still have, stored in suitcases, clothes that you used to wear when you were five.

-You call an older person you've never met before "Ammo" or "Khaltu".

-You hide everything from your parents, but they still think they know everything about you, and make you believe that they actually do.

-People are never happy with what you've achieved if you graduated from school they'll tell you "Akbal el chahadeh el kbeereh", and when u get that "Akbal el Arous or Ariis", and when you get that "Akbal ma nefrah be Awladkum", and when you get that "Akbal ma tefrahu bi shahadit-hum", etc....

-If you are a boy you start worrying about the Mukhabarat when you reach puberty.

-Getting a visa to Europe or the States is like getting a baby, everybody tells you "mabrouk".

-You learn how to beg the personnel at the airport to allow the excess baggage you've got, as soon as your father stops doing that for you.

-When you fly back home you find 20 people waiting for you at the airport.

-Everytime you fly back home you meet relatives you never knew existed, and they look nothing like your family.

-FINALLY you can notice that Jesus Christ was Lebanese. 30 years old, living at home, working in his father's business. his mom thinks he's the son of God. come on . give it up!

*P.S*: do not fwd to non-Lebanese, bala fadayih !

And no I am not the author...I got this by email the other day and had a laugh...so i'm passing it along.

Be safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

Tell You what KellysHeroes, before this degenerates into your post is rubbish/my post is rubbish, why don't I outline what bothered me by the OP and what my responses are to each point, and then you can tell me what exactly you have issue with, and we can constructively discuss anything you like.

Your point about the 150 years of Lebanon's army is well taken, but that just proves that the Republic of Lebanon (in its current state has not always existed, and I suspect won't throughout eternity). So my point is that Lebanon is not an eternal "nation" that's been around since the old testament, but part of a region that is a LOT older than that. I mean the culture is over 7000 years old, so you do the math. The "Lebanon" referred to is mount Lebanon, which is again much older than the old testament.

Would it surprise you if I told you I have seen ( with my own eyes)birth certificates (under 100 years old) that list place of birth as Beirut, Syria?

Some would have a heart attack if they saw this, but there is no deniying history.

Now to the points in the OP I had issues with:

1)Lebanon is the only democracy in the arab world

Absolutely false! Lebanon (by a strict definition) is not a democracy at all. When the sectarian affilitation of each position in the governemt is pre set and you cannot even run for office if you are the wrong sect (let alone wrong religion), then that's not democracy.

If a much looser definition is applied (ie people vote so its a democracy), then Egypt and Syria are democracies too...HA!

2) Lebanon's area of 10,452 km2.

Also False, beacuse not only is the border in dispute (ie the UN considers the Shebaa farms part of Israel, whereas Syria and Lebanon consider them Lebanese), but even if they weren't, the 10,452 km2 designated as the borders of Lebanon were drawn up by the Sykes-Picot agreement.

While some Lebanese are content to have the french and british tell them where their country begins and ends, don't be surprised if some are not.

3)Invasions of Lebanon.

False as presented, and here's why: While no one is suggesting Lebanon has never been invaded, the specific groups cited in the OP were not invaders, but the ancestors of current population of Lebanon.

It never ceases to amaze me how the wars between the athenians and spartans in greece, and the anglos and the saxons in egngland are always classified as internal struggles for control over the nation, yet the wars in that region are never seen as such.

4)The Lebanese are the decendants of Phoenicians.

False as presented and out of context. The historically accurate way to phrase that would have been that the Lebanese (as well as the Syrians, Palestinians, etc...) are decended from many groups that settled the region, and this includes the Phoenicians, Assyrians, Hittites, Chaldeans, Akkadians, Babylonians, Sumerians, Philistines, etc...etc...

I have seen this argument used many times before by some to say that the Lebanese are not Arabs they are Phoenicians, and this is just false propaganda.

5) Lastly, while it may not have appeared in the initial post, it didn't fail to materialize subsequently...the complete Denial Lebanese tend to use as their defense mechanism.

It is maddeningly frustrating to try and discuss how to ameliorate Lebanon with the Lebanese because:

a) They always say nothing is wrong, and Lebanon is Perfect.

b) IF by some miracle you can get them to admit the country is not perfect it is always a conspiracy and the whole world is at fault but the Lebanese.

In conclusion, I do not think patriotism in and of itself is necessarily bad, but when you post inaccurate or false information on a public forum, expect some people to speak up.

I can only guess what the OP's motves were, but can only reach 2 conclusions:

1) Either they were just not aware of the facts, and if that is the case, then my sincere apologies for the TONE of my posts ( I do stick by its content though).

2) Its a malicious attempt to propegate FALSE propaganda (and I have heard it all so often, that that may be why I reacted the way I did). If this is the case, then no matter how often you repeat it, it will never be true.

Let me close by saying that even IF I concede that the Lebanese are superior (which I do not....they are in some things but sorely defficient in others...like ANY Nationality), taking every opportunity to boast about it, just comes accross as arrogant and insufferable. The OP could have easily posted it in a Lebanese group, and not a public forum. This just seems very insecure.

Sorry for the length of the post, but i'm hoping to explain my motives and encourage a civil and enlightening debate.

Be safe all.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

yv2r

Cedar Tree grows very long in height,but any one has come across tallest person around here.

Yeaaah people say it's a very beautiful country.. I wish I could go there some time..

And I LOVE reading for lebanese writers and poets.. MY GOD they're so deep!

Jubran Khalil Jubran, Elia Abo Madi, Mechal Naima..etc!!

[img_assist|nid=7232|title=Dua|desc=Amen :-)|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=56]

lol! stop hijacking this thread! go to this thread! so you have an idea! ;-)

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/18884#comment-92560

Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig 2 graves...

And are Lebanese an ignorant lot? From cute-guy's post it seems so.

Mistika,

you are teasing me now??!! :)

stop teasing me and send the whole pict. to my inbox

i promise you, no body will see it but me and here i'm sending you akiss as a reward.

Well the post is not offensive but it should be posted in a "We lebanese" group rather than the lounge.

Why do we love Lebanon so much?? Well you do, I don't. And its immature to take offense when others dont like it because everyone has read and created such drivel about their countries. One of the most recycled stuff on the net is patriotic bombast about motherland (or fatherland if you are German).

Thanks E46M3, being the voice of reason and balance.

Quiet lurker. Poor Contributer

I know! That's why Ram is teasing me he wants to see more of that pic ;-)

But I just can't show the whole of that because it looks a bit naughty if you know what I mean! ;-)

Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig 2 graves...

Mystica,

I liked the picture, the one on your post, i can't really see it,

it's too small, but cute enough to kill my self for you if it's really you.....you know what i mean!!

Everyone is proud of their countries. And we all love Lebanon...But please.... 60% of your facts are WRONG!!!!

e.g 3. Lebanon's name has been around for 4,000 yrs non- stop (it's the oldest country/ nation's name in the world!)

mmmm.NO...what happened to Greece and Egypt!!

Dont post fake facts!!

Okay mx1o0o, you made your point but to say that all Arabs are united is absolutely ridiculous. They are not united and there is no particular reason why they should be.

Patriotism cannot be our final spiritual shelter; my refuge is humanity. Tagore, Bengali Poet

This is a funny post, but no need to insult each other. I guess if all of us start spamming great things about our countries, people will be tired. UK, US, SA, NEPAL, INDIA, EGYPT, SRI LANKA,ETC, BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!

WE ALL LOVE OUR COUNTRIES.

Im glad u said that u r proud of ur country.

climbing the walls-coz i miss you

of course i came here because the pay is beter. i have no issues with qatar and would not bite the hand that feeds me. with regards to my country some things i am proud of some things i am not. i was sharing my view and there are lots of lovely countries.

as regards to all arabs being together well I dont quite see that in practice.

What are u doing here then? huh, ur profile says UK, well if its true, why did u come here to Qatar?

Look Lebanon, Jordan, Syria Palestine, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi... are all together.

Oh and lemme guess, u came here because the pay is better than in the United Kingdom... Appreciate that u are living in such a great country and just because some people are proud abt their countries, doesnt mean u can come in and ruin everything ok.

if u r not proud of ur country then dont even bother attacking other ppls country ok, coz ur nothing if u r not proud of ur country.

Im Lebanese and i've been living in qatar for 19 years, i speak of Qatar as equally as i speak about Lebanon, because both countries are my home. Qatar is my home, Lebanon is my home, all Arabs are united, hope ur countrys' ppl are also like that, if u dont like what u hear then go back, and dont even post if u r not interested, read the guidelines please.

Qatarliving is not a place for classifieds only, its about sharing, i would like to thank the QL crew for such a wonderful website, and cute-guy for the useful info.

Thank you

climbing the walls-coz i miss you

Right - thanks for that information. now we are meant to be jealous because we aren't lebanese and don't live in lebanon.

Why are lebanese always banging on how great their sodding country is?

there are loads of great countries in the world that a beautiful and cultural and historical: Italy, Mexico, Nepal, Ethiopia for example.

If it is the bees knees then why don't the 15million diaspora go back to live there? 15 million lebanese can't be all wrong... they must have left for a reason - they expressed their true feelings by voting with their feet.

For you information Mr. Genius researcher, Lebanon's Internal Security forces celeberated their 150's anniversary few days ago.

So. which country or nation existed in its current form and name for 1000s of years? Eastern Taymour was establed few years ago. Israel was exteblished in 1948. Can you tell me what happened to Brussia (not Russia).

Sectarian struggle is prevailing in most countries. Think Ireland is a live example about the struggle between Catholics and Protestants.

And you have discovered that Lebanon was not invaded. Its only that we are decendants from other nations. Fine. What were the Crusaders doing in our place. Guess they were enjoying scuba diving and sun taning. If you are Lebanese originally, can you tell me for example what does the family name Franjiyye mean.

Ottomans were not tourists in our area. Neither were they doing geological explorations.

We know our history very well. Being proud of our country is not a crime. We are not under-estimating or insulting other nations and/or countries.

SO, yes our area was invaded and is still invaded by several enemies and in different forms.

If you have a personal problem against Arabs or Lebanese or Christians or Muslims in the area (Eastern Mideterranean), then keep your problems for yourself.

We are proud of ourselves. Proud that we belong to this part of the world. Proud that we are managing to survive having 18 sects co-existing in this small spot and trying our best to making it a real heaven.

When we talk proudly about our country or our nation, this is not rubbish talk. if you have some corrections or doubts about some info, then you are welcome to post here. Like what Gypsy did and that is a positive comment.

But if your intention is to spit rubbish then this is not the place.

Some of the comments above fall under 7.

No I never said anything about Beirut, I was referring to him saying that Byblos is the worlds oldest continusly lived in city. WHich I was wrong, it is, Damascus is the world's oldest existing city.

[img_assist|nid=13228|title=I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=180]

Who said that you have insulted anybody.

And accept my appology if you understood me wrong.

I was commenting on your posts here. Again I re-read the forum topic and the poor guy did not mention anywhere that Beirut is the oldest city. Guess you were refering to: "Lebanon's name has been around for 4,000 yrs non- stop (it's the oldest country/ nation's name in the world!)"

I didn't insult anyone KellyHeroes I simply pointed out that some of those facts weren't correct. Beirut isn't the world's oldest constinusly lived in city, Damascus in Syria is.

[img_assist|nid=13228|title=I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=180]

I agree with Ragnarock Raider on the facts he presented.We alos should not forget that most of our traditions, food, culture originated from the Turks and the Greeks.No doubt everyone of us loves his country and consider it the best among others we should not be jealous, but proud of our arab identity regardless of nationality.

10000000 kisses and love to beautiful Lebanon!!!!!

May Allah bless and protect the Lebanese Army

That money in the zoo is you. Name is KellyHero Monky.

Stop insulting each other! now go back to the playground and play peacefully! Okey? ;-)

Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig 2 graves...

Pls guys stop insulting each other.

Thank you.

I think some people here are just posting silly things like their rotten minds just to add some points.

Wonder what is wrong with Mr. sl (does it stand for silly?) and Doom and Gypsy and Ragnarock Raider.

If you dont like the forum topic, simply don't waste you precious and valuable time and enrich us with your non-sense.

Gypsy. Who said that Beirut is the oldest city?

sl, whenever I read your posts, I imagine a monkey in the zoo doing heee heee and hooooo hooooo and booooooooo boooo, eating and shoving bananas and picking his nose.

Guys, this site is for human beings and not for apes.

even in the war we have fun even when they was bombing in all lebanon we had a fun these are the lebaness we like to live they distroy one building we build it again and we know that they will destroy it again and again,we love life coz it is the power.in war or in peace we know how to live :)

Cute Guy,

I think all you wrote was perfectly correct,

I think you should know from the answers that everyone is Jealous.

and also you should know since the quantity of the answers where more than the usual that lebanon was the most popular country in history or in books.

anyway who is not interested to know some more information about anything....i think this person never read a book in his life or an article......perfectly illitrated!!

u can just plug on CNN or any news chanel since 30 years till now

and u will know from the news that everyone talks about lebanon...

that means also that lebanon is a living mine.

The reason why Lebanon is so messed up ladies and gentlemen is summed up very nicely right there by the original poster:

IT'S EVERYONE'S FAULT BUT THE LEBANESE!

Grow up, own up to the mistakes made, most importantly LEARN from them...and then MAYBE the country has a future.

Until then, Beautiful Lebanon (The paradise) lives only in dreams.

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

yeah now it is [Edited for Language]damn shit,coz of the strange ppl in our country from diferent nationality.Palastinian,syrian,iraq,egept and too much ppl,so they killed our country and all the [Edited for Language] countries want to interfere in our country:usa,france,ksa,arab countries..........and ofcourse isreal every year they make a war and killed out children

Hoo Hoo Hoo Boo Boo Boo. Chapter closed.

Gypsy,

Actually the one discovered in Egypt is not an alphabet it's a phonetic kind of alphabet.It consisted of drawn shapes not written letters.

Ugaritic alphabet is considered to be the oldest and first true type of alphabet.

Riddled with propoganda and selective history.

Lebanon as a country did not exist before the turn of the century, and its borders are defined by the british and french (in case you have not heard of Sykes-Picot). Mount Lebanon is mentioned in the old testament, not the religiously bigoted republic of Lebanon (democracy my @$$!).

For some reason, Lebanese Christians are loath to be considered Arabs, and thus try and claim that they are in fact Phoenician.

Historical fact is that Ancient Phoenicia stretched from Syria into Palestine and not just in Lebanon, so the Syrians and Palestinians are just as Phoenician as the Lebanese (oh did you forget Carthage? does that make Tunisians and Lebanese the same people??). That sets their blood aboil and is ignored entirely.

Plus the fact that there is no PURE bloodline in the world. The Lebanese (and Syrians and Palestinians, and Jordanians, etc...) are a mix of so many different groups that settled the region throughout history. Just as the Greeks were not invaded by athenians and spartans...they ARE those people...Lebanon was not invaded by these so called other countries, they are in fact decendants of Hitties, Chaldeans, Assyrian, Babylonians, Phoenicians, Philistines, and even Arabs (later on), and many many more.

So please learn your history before spounting rubbish!

And besides, before you rest on your ancestros' achievements, ask yourself what the country has done lately?

Lebanon is one of the most beautiful countries on earth, but unfortunately is populated by people who do not deserve it.

EVERYTHING based on sectarian affiliation, and people killed thier neighbours based on what religion their IDs had on them.

Breaks my heart....maybe that's why there are 15 million Lebanese outside of Lebanon.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, you must face reality. Lebanon will never improve if the Lebanese continue to live in denial. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting there is one!

Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?

I guess you should give the guy a break! May be Cute-Guy has been living outside Lebanon for too long that he got mixed up about more than 90% of those facts. I suggest to start reading about other countries, you'll be surprised of what you can find out about them!

I think people who want to know facts about a certain country would search in a proper place, so not to get confused with false facts.

wow Gypsy!!! You are always the reseacher in crime. keep up the good work.

I was the one who created alpabets but they stole my idea i forgot to visit the copy right office :(

[img_assist|nid=13339|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=180]

Also they've discovered that the first alpabet was created in Ancient Egypt.

[img_assist|nid=13228|title=I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=180]

And there is no proof that the Phonecians reached the Americas, it's a theory not a fact.

[img_assist|nid=13228|title=I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=180]

I thought Damascus was the oldest continusly lived in city in the world? :?

[img_assist|nid=13228|title=I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=180]

What form. don't even know what you are taking about. I guess it is Forum

if you dont want to read just go and read another form,so stupid .........

This is a Universal Characteristic to comment on a silly post. [Edited for Language]

Is this thread offensive? Why is it winding you up? Lots of people post things like this, doesn't usually invoke this reaction. Unless there is an offensive or controversial message, I think you should let him have his say. People have said worse

Noticing that sl & Doom are posting negative comments. Wonder if this is a Sri Lankan characteristic.

Guys if you are not interested, Don't READ. Provided that you understand what you read.

If you have something positive, or find a wrong info then post it or correct it here, [Edited for Language]

U call all those points very interesting points????? Huh... U can find many countries which has much more interesting points than u gave here. Those points r not even worth to read.....

Who asked for the the information about Lebenon. We do not need this information. If we need we can ask or search through wikipedia to get more accurate information than this crap. OK!!!!!

Cute-guy you need to get your facts straight. There are MANY countries in Africa that do not have deserts AND Lebanon is hardly in Africa! The DRC or Nigeria with a desert? Hard to imagine. You need to get an atlas out and have a good look at where Africa actually is. It is that big continent south of Lebanon that starts at the country called Egypt in case you don't know.

sa_japie

"To be or not to be? That is the question"

You posted this a while back. And Lebanon doesn't have 40 daily newspapers.

I'm sure other countries in the world can also have a top-16 of why we're cool.

But i remember there is already a thread for this?

am i right here?