New York is the center of the western world
By Tigasin321 •
and London is the center of the rest of the world. This is a quote by British film maker Guy Ritchie. Discuss.
and London is the center of the rest of the world. This is a quote by British film maker Guy Ritchie. Discuss.
Have a good night, PM.
My mind's still set back to the time Michelangelo was painting the Chapel before it became part of the new Vatican, which is today...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
PM, why does it always have to end like this? Do I threaten you? Do I insult you? Do I not try to be as open as I can be? What is wrong in this QL society? I tell you one more time, if somebody comes up with a statement, and if he can prove it, I am the last person to make a joke about it or to question somebody's qualification. Your input is highly appreciated.
It is behind the Vatican.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
PM, you don't have to "understand". Just stand there, listen, smell, feel, and shiver with excitement.
I think there's a fundamental difference. The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and to some extent the Medicis used the "arts" to leave a legacy of themselves.
The Arabs on the other hand , left a legacy which focused on a peoples rather than individuals..
Would you agree , PM ??
No offense at all, PM. Always appreciate corrections. But it's the tone that makes the music. I think the thread was about the "Center of the Western World". Did we come to a conclusion then?
He partially designed the architecture along with the other famous Renaissance artists at that time. And The Pieta only got into the Vatican after Renaissance. The Vatican bought it and moved it over there.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
I meant, I don't want to embarrass you with my "NOT-KNOWING" anything, and I said it clearly, you studied history, I didn't. So, be so kind and help us, don't accuse us.
Nobody knows Medici without Michelangelo's popularity...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
PM, please, I am not a historian like you. I only learned some crap in school. I tend to believe you when you say what you say. But it has to have a proof, either your arguments or somebody Else's. Let's not behave like children.
PM, I don't want to embarrass you. I like your profound comments. Check this link, please
http://saints.sqpn.com/pope0214.htm
were influential during their time for 3-4 Centuries. Lets see what History writes about Dubai. The Florence of the Middle East does not sound likely.
Hey its all about opinions. History writes itself and if the future capital of culture is to be found in the Middle East, my money is on Iraq or Iran.
Then again what do I know, Liverpool was decided by the UK Government as the best option for its bid for the European Captital of Culture. ( Nothing personal but FFS)
a href="http://www.mycodesplace.com/Images/Funny_Pics/">
It was this uglu guy, PM.
Alexander
No, I haven't PM. He read none of my books about blueprinting a Chevrolet Small Block Engine. But, I give you all the credit for your comment.
You know it's simple, ask people "who do you know? Pope Alexander the VI or Michelangelo?" What do you think they'll answer? Michelangelo, of course. So despite the fact that Pope Alexander paid Michelangelo people remember the true genius not the financier. (Brit, don't nail me down on the 6th or the 8th, ok?)
Again, there are more quotable quotes than those coming from Guy Ritchie.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
"The Popes were corrupt, alcoholics and womanisers."
Thats a short list..lol
You fell for it, brit. Yes the Medici had the money to attract the artists and scientist. But it wasn't the Medici who brought forward the ideas of the Renaissance. They just financed it. Like Dubai does, now.
The Medicis make interesting reading.. The Popes were corrupt, alcoholics and womanisers. Yet, the Medicis changed the Western world. They brought it out of the Medievel ages and brought art, culture, architecture to the fore.
Guy Ritchie? I didn't realise people even listened to what he says, let alone discussed it! lol!
Anyway, Birmingham (UK) is the centre of the world. That's a well know fact.
what the hell would Guy bloody Ritchie know? He married a bloke in drag ffs!! Ignore what that idiot says....
PM, you are one who knows. Yes, without the Arabs we would not even know what Aristotle had said. Lol, my friend.
its pretty ignorant to call one place the center of the world. Its not that simple.
I was on the 'Define the West' thread and it was very thoughtful until it descended into a row about colonialism and racism.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
If we really want to progress this thread in a profound way we'll have to find out first what the "Western World" means. There was a thread before "Define Western" and it ended in a chaos of accusations and racism. So, you are touching a highly controversial topic. I hope you are aware of it. To give you a start: Western for me means the democratic culture that I enjoy as a European based on what my forefathers developed in bloody wars throughout the past 2000 years. That includes art, language, lifestyle, beliefs, and norms. And therefore I said, Athens is the center of the "Western World", still, gypsy.
To be added to your list of purely 'western' thinking you should add the Enlightenment centres of the UK, France and the US. They are more relevant to todays world than Athens, Rome or renaissance Italy ( though without them prehaps there would never been the Enlightenment era)
Just a thought.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
You are right, PM. But you should not forget that the Vatican throughout history always was wealthy enough to "purchase" or "acquire" pieces of art at their likes. What has truly "grown" definitively is the Sumerian and Assyrian culture in Iraq, the "Classical Greek Art" in Athens, mimicked by the Romans, the "Islamic Art" of Saladin in Damascus and Cairo, and, of course, the Renaissance Art of Venice and Florence. There is also a center of culture in South America, Moche, Olmec, Toltec, Maya, Inca, Aztecs. And finally we should not forget glorious cultures emanating in the Indus River Valley. God knows how they all influenced our thinking. Since the thread is about the center of "Western Culture" I would vote for Athens and Florence because these places represent the "Western Thinking".
What I mean guys, is this, it is cheap to roll out your money and buy artifacts. That does not make you a "Center". The Laocoon Group is in Berlin, the bust of Nofreteti is in Berlin, Rubens is in the Louvre, the obelisk from Egypt is on the Place de la Concorde, and so on, and so on.
But Michelangelo's David is in Florence. That's where is was produced and that's where it belongs. And the Gate of Ishtar should be in Baghdad and not in Europe. This is kind of "expatriate" centers of art, if you know what I mean.
I don't know. To me Dubai has the potential to be a Toyko someday. Perhaps not a center for art put for pop culture and cool, defintely.
I am sorry, but New York to some extent, but Florence, Paris, London, Venice, Rome have culture and "Heritage"...I can't see Dubai ever achieving that..
Magic, how do you think the Vatican Gallery compares? Having been to the two of them several times, the first time I went to the Vatican Gallery, I was blown away, more so than the Ufizi.
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I've been to Florence, love it. I was being facetious implying that the Brit's had stolen everything.
Precisely Adey, they're trying to reverse that trend.
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Now, gypsy, go to Florence or Firence. Visit the Ufficie or the Palazzo Pitti. All of the European Culture has gathered there. So, I'll correct my statement when it comes to Art: Florence is the heart of the Western Culture. Even the Louvre in Paris cannot cope with it. It's not about "who has the most pieces of art", it's about "where did it really start". Most pieces in the Louvre are "imported". Sooner or later you will find that in Dubai. Is Dubai the "Center of the Western world" then??
Not being funny but they have got to find it first, I thought a lot of it had been nicked!
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
They're doing a wonderful project in Iraq, trying to preserve the cultural heritage there.
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It's not just fashion, disco's and nightlife, it's also art and culture, and if we really want to go with art and history the British museum is the center of the world. :P
You've been close enough, gypsy. 300 BC is Plato, Aristotle, and ....
So what, in your opinion is the center of the "Western World"? I thought Athens because of the "Western" values Democracy, Republic, ... I guess, the guys here were thinking more about fashion and discos and night life.
Sorry MD, I get my BC's mixed up ;)
Me? British? LOL The Queen won't have me for some reason....... =)
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
but I will be more careful in future. You are the ex-miltary guy right, who is half British?
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
I cant get enough of, infact i'll im going back to both in 2009. Although Ive never been Tokyo it has to be right up there with the best,although its not as multicultural as the others.
I dont think Dubai will ever be considered a world centre. Its the called the Las Vegas of the Middle East for more than one reason. Its faker than some of that dodgy perfume from the Souq.
My own opinion is that either Shanghai or Beijing and as an outside bet, Montreal, will play much greater parts in years to come.
For now though give me London every day of the week.
To be precise, gypsy, it must have been around 300 BC.
Np, prob Tig
I am the white one and he is the black one....
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
I keep confusing you and Abu American.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Ya MD, maybe in 500 BC it was.
Mais non Tig! Vous avez beacoup plus de charme et aussi un certain je ne sais quoi ;)
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Guys, this thread is about the center of the " Western World ", not the world. Forget Shanghai and Beijing. The center of the Western World is Athens!
Sorry Abu I forgot about them.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Up-state New Yorkers are evil. It's a proven fact.
Thought was L.A.!
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I am your American male alter ego. N'est c'est pas?
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Wake up to breakfast in London, a lazy lunch in a little restaurant tucked away in Provence and a romantic dinner in the City of Lights (Paris). Now that's a great day in my book. And very do-able in terms of time - I've done it many a time.
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TIG, maybe she was referring to upstate... and the limitless country....
And that somehow it has died and we all know how evil those upstaters are!!
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
Beijing does have some historical cultural points, but Shanghai is a much more happening place.
London is...London. Unique. Grubby, cold yet also warm and welcoming...has a definite buzz, is never boring, and other European countries are a stone's throw away.
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but thanks fot your input. It was a very coherent well thought out and convincing point. Btw New York is a city not a country. Would be interested to hear any more views on your apparently limitless knowledge of world cities.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
New York is a dead country as far as i knew...It is a place of Evil.
YET people YET. I'm not talking tomorrow I'm talking 50 years from now, or longer. Remember Paris and Rome used to be the world centers. These thing changes as the economies of the countries they're in change.
Doesn't have them YET. But someday I think they will.
Dubai??
It's too "plastic".. Where is the culture and ambience in Dubai ?
I have lived in both cities and was born in New York but for sheer internationalism, nothing beats London and I don't think any city ever will. Even my Parisien friends prefer London as a place to live than Paris. As for Dubai, Beijing and Hong Kong, no they are too small. Well, okay Beijing isn't too small but a world center? Nah. Its a big ugly polluted city and doesn't have a tenth of the attractions of London or New York. Shanghai is much more interesting than Beijing.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
I wouldn't say it's the soul center or the world, but along with Tokyo and London it's one of them for sure. They're centers for art, culture, economy, politics and everything else that makes our world go tick. Paris used to be up there with them, but no longer and I think Dubai, Beijing and Hong Kong will someday be there to (London will have passed by then).
Yes, Brit, the New York Met (Metroplitan Museum of Art) currently holds the world's largest collection of Islamic art. It really is something to see.
And there's also Zabars, one of my favourite delis ;)
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Both cities have great culture and arts.. Go look and ye shall find..
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
didn't he marry Madonna??..I'll say no more
it smells. so if the western world is noted for its smells then yes it is the centre of the western world.
a one, a two, a one two three four.......
"My old man said follow the van, and don't dilly dally on the way ( 'av a banana!)" - sing up at the back!
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
New York and London both rock my world when I'm there.
Both big financial centres and in terms of real estate they are both phenomenal.
You could pick endless topics and apply them to these two power cities.
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LOL... Alexa, I didn't know I had a style!
Vulgar? Me? Mais, non!
Childish perhaps.... vulgar no...
Tig will understand when I take swipes at NYC being that I am from Boston and all....
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
I dunno ...
NYC and London are centers of the west just as the hole is the center of the butt....
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
You may have something there..New York, is the centre because of the financial and military power of the United States of America. The Dow Jones sneezes and the rest get the Flu..
London is the centre for culture, is very cosmopoliton and a hub for the rest of the World..