pearl is built on cheep standards

cheep (cheap) standard. We call it "sub-standard". And mind you, there is no "perfect" construction. It is how to deal with the "imperfection" whether carried-out intentionally or unintentionally.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

the best opinion will come from the consultant side and not the marketing people.

Back home, one of the best real estate developer listened to our suggestion to involved the consultant particularly the Construction Project Management consultant to the training sessions of the marketing group as well as once in a while, let this experts talks on marketing promotions.

The one who knows the ins and outs of the actual constructions are the consultants as pointed out by Gerryc, never trust 100 % on what is in layman's naked eyes views.

Ask us, we may know the answer to your querries!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

just coz the developer pays a hefty price for goods & services doesn't make the goods or service any good, does it? It is very evident that the quality of work here is very very inferior.

Its kinda like the Land Cruiser, pay so much for nothing!!!

I can vouch for the fact that the quality of a lot, if not all, of the properties in Dubai r of much higher quality and standards.

omg... really... such things should be advertized to the poor naive people who even THINK about wasting their money on this place....

really... cant stop laughing....it will be a classic in some time. It tells soooo much!

Oh my God............It's first time I see such lift.........

Definitely cheap standards

QCS (Qatar Construction Standard)...is just a reference...

Doesnt mean all the stuff used are up to the Standard.

For example: The Design team sets a certain QCS standard of Drain Cover. But such particular type of Drain Cover is not available in the market nor is something of even an equivalent standard available. Then the Client has no option but to go in with an inferior quality Drain.

The client doesnt have time to stop construction till the time they find the producer of such a drainmaker in the World market.

So on for other products used in the Construction, right from the Cement, rebars, tiles to the electric wires, sockets, door hinghes, Door lock, etc.

The Contractor if he wants can create such a scene of "material's lack of availability" in the market so as to let the Client authorise him to use inferior materials.

If the Client or the Consultant wants to enforce the QCS then the onus falls on them to find a suitable maker of such a material. And this is beyond their scope.

Thus the QCS is only on paper.

At the time of awarding contracts......offers with Lower Prices are entertained.......leading to such outcomes.

QCS has been updated last year!Both of us know it's not about QCS, Design offices or consultants. It is about the client not submitting to consultant recommendation, delayed payment & un-skilled labor.

Main problem at Qatar, the owner depute Consultant at High price thinking they dont have to worry..No baby its cant happen..You have to take care of your own.. Other hand when Consultant get enough of money They recurit unexperince staff the staff try to learn from Contractor & they then put issue on them.

Even its same situation with Contractor they cant afford to keep many skill people..because High cost of leaving at Qatar..

There will still many problems going to come wait & watch..

You will not believe one consultant have put such a Performace gurantee as specification which can create problem to that system, I will not name that company..But this is fact here.

Its sort of dipressing really...

all the millions,thousands of money spent on the project!!

now...

its over..

not really..

but partially..

Come on! it has bad quality!!

get a grip...

wake up and smell the flowers!!

I don't think it will last long enough...

honestly..

Pearl..Pearl..Pearl...IS ALL JUST A WASTE!!!!!

I think the islands were available for anyone to buy. That's what the sales staff implied to me. Not sure if any ruling family purchased them though.

Just one point about owning a property in the Pearl, the small islands at the far end are owned by the the immediate ruling family? If that is the case how would that effect the owners on the rest of the island. I can forsee a situation where all of the cars are cleared from the access road everytime the Emir wishes to enter or leave.... wouldnt that be fun... not being able to get on or off the place for an hour while the VIP's visit.

Im glad I bought in Thailand :-)

Nidge

Except that gold lost 30 % since February.

when we talk about standards of works here in qatar, they have the QCS, but also having problems... just finished reviewing our projects specs, mostly referred to the QCS.. but unfortunately, QCS still is referring to BS standards, which are already 20-30 years old, which are already withdrawn by the BSI group..

going back to the pearl topic.. humidity and temperature may not contribute to the structure's deterioration.. because once the structure is sealed, it is already protected...

but sea water level would be the major thing to be monitored.. considering global warming, how much the sea has risen in the past decade.. beach front properties would be definitely affected... but before that happens, all properties in this reclaimed areas would be sold out..

life is not a destination, it always had been & always will be a journey.....

I could wax lyrically on macro and micro economics but I reckon this is not the platform to do so, because I would probably send people to sleep. But if you want to check out some insghtful views on where it is all going, have a look at:

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/

Bob hits the nail on the head.

Having read all the comments, all I can say is that some are misinformed, and some are perceptive. If some commentators are negative in their opinions, well that is ok. But being positive makes things happen and that is why I have a passion for construction. Like it or lump it we live in a capatlist society here and in our home countries. The next few years will be hard especially for the X and Y generations because they have not lived through a recession. But what is happening globally, even with my own positive outlook, will cause a fundamental change in all or lives. If I can give any advice on this forum, it is simple - do not get into debt and do your best to get out of debt. Rip up your credit cards, sell your shares, and save. At the moment gold bars are really the only sure thing

kindly get the right informstion donot spread rumors. there is no shops open in Pearl as of today and buildings are still not handedover to residentents and obiviously all projects needs to stablies. Kindly do not spread romors.

.

.pearl is built on cheep standards....

.this is so true...

.got projects in the pearl, and i certainly know, what is standard, above standards, sub-standard.

.

.inferior quality is showing as early as now.

.

qatar's environment is simply too harsh for the buildings!!

the combination of high temperature and high humidity is too much to bear for the structures for a long period of time. this harsh atmosphere can quickly deteriorate the concrete coverings and expose the reinforcements to corrosion. once that happens, rapid structure deterioration will be hastened...

this middle east development rush reminds me of the OLD BABYLON... sooner or later, nature will take the price to be paid from greedily sucking up dry her resources.

as we are all aware, "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF". because mankind never ever learned... they tend to remember only the events but forget very easily the lessons.

and before that happens, expats will be all gone. and the buildings will be left behind to ruins...

This forum has being very educative in learning the pro's and con's, when it comes to the purchase of properties in Doha, The construction standards, The bank loans and particularly the rights of the consumer which is zip.

Rami-Leb

Summarizing all your write ups, Could you tell us what will make the Doha hosing market more effective and attractive to future property investors?

Maybe you might want to open another forum. I'm just suggesting some quick reference guide of information for those new prospects and short eye readers.

The Seven Words You Can Never Say On QL by George Carlin

And I refuse to believe the stupid rent prices are because of high demand. Have been loking for places and I can assure there are LOADS of empty apartments and houses. People just dont THINK... lower the rent means places full in a blink. But honestly... the places I have seen... somethings are hard to believe.

And going to visit fully furnished places.. OMG... and I am not talking about the taste on furniture, I am talking about quality and about the lack of planning.

It became quite amusing actually...

come on.... ANYONE who has been living here for longer than a week cannot be seriously expecting to find ANY property properly built! Come on...seriously, does anyone believe the pearl was going to be different??

things like honour a contract, follow procedures... do what you promised and sold someone else...these concepts are not known in this country.

just wish people were a little less naive when deciding to put their money on this pearl development. not worth it.

i wonder what will really happen to this place when the oil is over...

I honestly cannot think of any reason why anyone would invest in property here.

The price is high, the quality is terrible and in a few months time when the bubble bursts here all you will own is a pile of bricks in the desert.

Two years from now there will hardly be any rental market. All the big projects will be almost complete here with no new big projects coming up due to the credit crisis, the low oil price and the exorbitant price of construction here.

If you want to blow your cash then buy a Ferrari....at least you can enjoy it and take it home with you

just eat another pie

Like so many so called 'prestigious' projects in the region, the Pearl is just a means of obtaining large amounts of cash from innocent (not to say naive) investors.

Forget about any 'guarantees' on your investment, the law can be changed at the snap of a finger and your 'investment' could disappear at any time.

Remember where you are!

There will be a "corrosion problem" in the future due to the vicinity of salt water. That means that the buildings will rott much faster than elsewhere.

technically speaking.. gerry is right, leaks is innevitable at this stage of construction.. the building is not yet totally sealed.. but its kinda good, at least nature already perform a natural leak test.. so if there are some problem areas, engineers can act on it... but im worried about the pipes that exploded internally.. are these rain water drainage pipes? if it is, well the design is wrong...

about the pearl, the most important thing to ask..is... would the pearl be there above sea level after 5-10 years? had the designers, marine surveyors, engineers, geologists considered the effect of the sea current on this reclaimed area? would it not be "eaten" by the sea after sometime?

life is not a destination, it always had been & always will be a journey.....

that the builder on the ZigZag Towers (or one of them or whoever) had gone bust and so the building was on hold for the timebeing.

However, I've know idea where that person got their info from.

Jauntie, an interesting point... when is investing predatory and when is it to survive?

Admitedly I'm now much more likely to put money into various investments in established markets (shares and property) now that the bubble is bursting, or at least receeding, than I was when the prices were rising.

Anyway, since the thread has been hijacked...

Can anyone speculate as to why the Zigzag Towers are *still* not ready for occupancy? What are they doing????

More just the type of investing the likes of me would do to earn herself a pension i.e. buy a small place in the UK now that the prices are deflated (initially to accommodate, say, an elderly relative and latterley to let out for income).

Then would hope that the price of the property would rise (as it does historically) after about a decade. By which time I shall probably need the money!

I wasn't referring to people splashing out more than they can afford in the hope of making a quick buck in the short term. I was talking survival! lol

I guess I should have kept my comments in line with the discussion, which was really about a different kind of speculation. :D

Hi gerryqs,

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but as someone else said you sound very knowledgeable and I think very professional.

Could you please tell me if UDC started building tower VB29 in Viva Bahriyah?.

Thank you very much.

Its a trend in Qatar, tht whtever new comes out its marketed so well n hyped up so much, tht the price becums inrealistically high. But it doesnt last tht long, the hype lasts 2 yrs and then it dies down. This has happened to virtually everything here including the stock exchange. I would definately advise ppl not to put their hands in any kind of investment for the first two years, but wait for the market to stabilise and then invest. Paying 1.2 million and above for a one bedroom apartment is utterly ridiculous, no matter where it is. i would prefer to buy in Dubai then buy a flat here. Qatar market is unstable and unforgivable to investors.

Thanks for your concern, Jauntie! My life so far has been too peripatetic to justify the purchase of property.

I have to say that I think there is something wrong with trying to speculate on commodities such as property. In the first instance it artificially increases the short term value of the commodity, which is a negative for those who are further down the chain. Just take a look at the rental market in Doha, for instance.

The second reason why I think it's wrong is that, thanks to Adam Smith's invisible hand, it never really works in the long run. The market almost always self-corrects and people who gamble lots of money for lots of return often end up with nothing more than lots of debt.

This has been true of the real estate markets in Europe and the US of late, as well as the stock markets globally. How many amongst us were tempted by successful friends to buy this stock, invest in that scheme, put money into some fund with some obscure bank... In almost every instance I can think of, most of my 'smart' friends now have lots of very expensive bits of paper and nothing more.

I don't think investing in real estate in that sort of manner is right, not (just) because it's unethical, but because in the long run it is financially flawed.

I agree rami-leb. I don't understand why either. But that doesn't change the fact that people are buying them, hence supply and demand in effect.

I heard a rumour that originally they were all put on the market at cheap prices, to stimulate sales and kick start a "flipping" chain, which in turn stimulates more interest in the properties until eventually they're sold at much a higher price than they originally could have been. Then some poor sucker is stuck with a property they want to sell on for a profit, but can't cos the price has got too high.

No idea if that's true though.

did you miss out on something? ;o)

I see no problem with people speculating to accumulate - do you own a property anywhere? If so, then I'm sad for you and anyone else who may now have lost money on their property. Hopefully the worldwide recession doesn't last too long - for all our sakes!

In my opinion, the ex-pats who purchased property here with the hope (now distant) of selling it on at an increased and outrageous price are every bit as bad as the Qatari landlords who rent apartments at outrageous prices.

It's kind of pleasing to see that their greed got the better of them and many such people stand to lose a lot of money. Sigh.

I can only fully agree with Alexa, period and exclamation mark.

Gerryqs, i am very delighted to hear such knowledgeable explanations and i believe you really know what you are talking about. I look forward to hear more on your perspectives and share with us...or say with me who doesnt really have any idea about buildings, real properties of which i am very interested because i will be living here in Qatar for the rest of my life...ty.

"There's nothing we can do to change the past, if it teaches  you a lesson profit from it then, forget it."

It's one thing to get off the plane and pay sky high rent for a place to sleep that night. As you say, supply and demand.

But I fail to see why you would pay a comparable amont to actually own the same type of sh1t accomodation that is built here. Who in their right mind would buy something built in Qatar sight unseen? Did they expect that The Pearl would be any better than anything else around? I personally would much rather throw away ludicrious amounts of money on exorbitant rent than throw away an even greater sum of money on a crappy apartment overlooking a turbid bit of salt water in a poorly located part of town. But that's just my opinion

Supply and demand, when it comes to purchasing expensive property, is an irrelevant factor in this environment.

Supply and demand. People are currently paying these prices, despite the poor standards of construction.

the point here is when people pay 100 times more then the realistic value for small piece of real estate and the best view around is dirty sand and toxic smell and you cant use it for more then 6 months out of 12 months then you wonder about the reasons of why this property is that expensive , we know that the rent here is the highest in the world i wonder whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Yes, the building standards at the Pearl are just as sub-standard as elsewhere on the Qatari peninsula. On the Boardwalk for example, the tiling is so badly laid that I almost tripped over! I've heard that the kitchen fittings are of very poor quality although the price of the accommodation is, of course, sky high.

Mr,K

Gd pt rami..it always ben like this & will always continue to be so...

I agree with your theory.

The Seven Words You Can Never Say On QL by George Carlin

I heard it was to be demolished but after it is handed over to the MOI to house them temporarily until new accomodations can be built.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.

I'm not sure that Rydges is actually being demolished, I thought that the building was being handed over to the MOI.

In any case, there is no need to build anything to a high standard in this country, since history has shown up that Qataris soon tire of their shiny new toys and move on to their next project after a few years.

The Pearl will be the toast of the town for about 6 months and then we'll all be carrying on about some other real estate project that some other Sheikh has thrown a lot of money at. Perhaps Lusail, or in Al Khor, or somewhere else. In the meantime the Pearl will fade from view and be left to crumble back into the sea.

Perhaps the builders are smarter than we think? Perhaps they know that there is no point wasting time or money on quality?

I hope those buildings are in compliance with the local Coast Guard.

Lots of Life preservers, floating cushions, safety ropes and flares. Maybe some rapid deployable Seaborne emergency boats.

I guess, I will be wearing a hard hat and a life vest, when visiting that complex of buildings

The Seven Words You Can Never Say On QL by George Carlin

Arien i was just there yesterday , i saw in my own eyes the pipes in over seven shops , what else can i tell ya ,problem is fixable but i was wondering what was the UDC doing before the installation , they just know how to give TICKETS and FINES for workers who forget to keep their helmet on their heads while in his rest time lol.

Gee... you think... poor quality construction? Here? In Doha???

What sort of planet are you living on if you think that the Pearl will be built any better than Villagio, for instance?

There is no such thing as quality construction anywhere in the Gulf. Builders would rather save money on labor costs than deliver a quality product.

LOL Mandi.. nahh.. I don't think so mandi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Heard your wife left you,

How upset you must be.

But don't fret about it...

She moved in with me.

Arien, if Fefee is allegating does that make her an allegator (sic)?

Mandi

and without diverting the original post too much, the bigger issue is the economic slow down. As developers rush to complete projects to make sales and generate income to pay off loans, standards in construction fall further. The developers need that income as the credit sources are drying up. Doha will be one of the last places to feel the down turn but it is coming. Unfortunately this will lead to some projects stopping or being put on hold. New appartments will fall in price and existing rents will come down. However, the majority of people who rent those appartments or purchase ones where they are allowed to ie at the Pearl (none locals) will not have a job and will leave the country. The knock on effect will be landlords who are geared to a certain rent in order to pay their loans will resist this economic force and fight to increase rents. Then the cycle of greed from landlords and developers, married to a reducing consumer base ie less tennants, will exacerbate the situation. Inflation will increase leading to a possible devaluation of the Qatari Real and then you are on the road to a real economic meltdown. I do not believe in scaremongering but within the next three months you will see the bubble burst.

Also, the economy in Qatar relies so much on oil, gas and construction. There is no tourist industry or real service industry compared to other countries and as the wealth of the country does not trickle down to low income people. Those people cannot invest or start a business and employ people as their main goal is to send money back home. They cannot buy property and if they can afford a loan are reluctant to so because when they loose their job and have to return home they cannot leave the country before the debt is paid. In summary, the economic downturn coupled with the inertia of a wealth retention within the country leaves little room for manoeuvre. On the plus size the countries wealth is being used very wisely in building services shuch as hospitals, schools, universities etc. These are not speculative developments and although there are many things here that people criticize, what the goverment is doing in spending billions on their projects is exactly what should be done elsewhere and for that they should be applauded

I don't think fefee was scaremongering...she was just saying what she observed and experienced.

To be honest...I'm very wary of ANY construction here..regardless of who is overseeing it or where it is located. Money talks. I'm sure you guys are doing your best to control issues and best of luck to you on that.

tallg...you've heard what I heard about Rydges...too close for comfort to the Diwan. Yep on the 10 years..look at the zigzag towers...2 years and still not finished!!

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.

I thought the reason Rydges is being demolished is due to its proximity to the Emir Diwan. I don't think The Pearl has that problem!

And anyways, they'll still be building it the first time round in 10 years time!

I wouldnt worry too much, the Pearl will be domolished and redeveloped within 10 years... they did it to Rydges and its a 4 star Hotel. so I wouldnt trust my money in the Pearl just in case...

Nidge

Thanks for starting this post FeFe. I have some knowledge of the towers at the Pearl and can I just put a few things into perspective. Where there were some water leakage problems in the towers they were in buildings under construction ie not 100% finished or water tight and yes the water did trip some circuits. The stormwater drains are nor complete outside the towers which led to localised flooding.

The towers are being built by several builders and the standards that UDC have set are high. The specifications are a combinatation of US and UK standards and the level of quality control is high. I cannot speak about all the towers as i am responsible for only 17 of them with 7 currently in mid/advanced stage and 3 coming out of the ground, the balance to commence asap. Each of those towers has a quality control manager responsible for it and four quality control inspectors. They are monitored by senior ex pat engineers who sign off on key construction issues.

Yes sometimes it is hard to get the standard we want be if you were able to sit in on some of my meetings regarding safety and quality you would hear that we do not accept poor standards. In fact we are educating people in how to do things safely and properly. And the workforce are willing to learn which is so refreshing

I appreciate standars in appartment construction in Doha are not high, but UDC along with specialist construction management will continue to raise the standard. Note I do not work for UDC. And the last thing the thousands of workers at the Pearl need is any lack of confidence by potential investors due to scare mongering about quality.

Those investors pay a lot of peoples wages and we need to be aware of the benefit of the Pearl to Qatar, its people, the guys working, investors and all stakeholders.

I rather take my chances in Florida and the seasonal hurricanes. At least I know they are built to code and not some flooded prone building.

The Seven Words You Can Never Say On QL by George Carlin

If ever this one's true, people who bought a property or planning to should be aware of this. Imagine if they would have to pay millions for a substandard construction.

cheers,

paul

the buildings in qatar remind me of wooden doll's house, great to look at but fragile..

rain is always a surprise in qatar and the rest of the gulf, people always say inshallah and get on with cleaning up rather than asking why this sould happen.

IN MODERN CONSTRUCTION THESE INVITABLE EVENTS ARE PREDICTABLE AND CAN BE PLANNED FOR.

Quality is not really a word that exists when it comes to building in Qatar.

Unskilled and cheap is evident in a lot construction here.

just eat another pie

try and expatiate on the issue

Sure of what your thread is allegating on the project. I am not denying but hard to believe. Since i know even the builder of porto Arabia , who is one of the most repute and many major quality strectures in doha is done by them.

anyways , i dont think even a substandard construction could show its lapses in such a rain which doha had. I will come back for sure with details..once i confirm.

cheers

______________________________________________

Every society is judged by how

it treats it's least fortunates.

things look nice from out side but the real problem is what ever behind this fancy decoration this morning there was a post about flooding in Villagio ......

arean sure of what ? explain , the fact is that happened in the pearl and today i was in one of the shops .

all those loopholes wont be exposed... who knows, in the future, it might not just be rain water coming down, but the ceilings flying as well :(

You sure??

______________________________________________

Every society is judged by how

it treats it's least fortunates.

:-0