Petition against clubbing of Baby Seals in Namibia

people who have tried crocadile meat can enjoy camel meat also.

very very vey salty, you have to be into eating exquisite stuff in order to enjoy camel meat

I heard camel meat is quite tasty. Maybe they could.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Actually, I am wondering who got the time to bother about Seal hunting in Namibia. Here we are in Doha and got better things to do right. by the way there was an article about growing Camel population here which endanger the growth of whatever the plant in the deserts. Do you think they use the same method to control the camel population here. :)

Shimmer that's why I said Canadian Seal Hunt and not Namibian seal hunt. Jeez follow the thread.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

I've actually eaten seal in Newfoundland, Canada. I've also had muktuk (an Inuit delicacy that is whale blubber). I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I'm not involved in this discussion about seals etc and don't wish to be, but I do have a question of you.

I don't know if 'shimmer' is a new ID for you, but according to your profile you have only been a member of QL for 3 days and I'm unsure if you actually reside in South Africa or whether you are in Doha.

My question is, why did you choose Qatar Living forum to post this thread? Was it random? For the petition and you are targeting other forums?

I have no prob with the thread; just can't help being curious.

IN REPLY (MY WORDS ARE IN CAPS)

“Dolphin Hunt vs. Canadian Seal Hunt“

“1) Most dolphin species, including those hunted by the Japanese, are endangered. “

“2) The seal population in Canada is holding steady at 5.8 million and seals are considered abundant. “

NOT IN NAMIBIA, THEY ARE SOON TO BECOME ENDANGERED THERE – THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECO-SYSTEM

“3) Dolphin meat is considered harmful to humans due to high levels of mercury and it is discouraged to eat it. “

GREAT!! BUT THEY ARE STILL KILLING THEM!

“4) Seal meat is fine to eat, and is encouraged in cold climates because of the energy stored in seal fat. “

DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE WAY THEY ARE KILLED IN NAMIBIA

“5) There is no other use for Dolphin's then meat, which is consumed by very few people in Japan, Figi and the Soloman Islands. “

THEN INHUMANE TO KILL THEM THE WAY THEY DO – WHY BOTHER??

“6) Seals provide fur and oils and are a source of food for many different countries, including Japan, Korea, China and Canada. “

DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE WAY THEY ARE KILLED IN NAMIBIA. THEY ARE STILL KILLING THEM!

“7) The sale of Dolphin meat does not contribute noticeably to the Japanese economy. “

THEN WHY BOTHER KILLING THEM??

“8) The sale of seal fur, oils and meat earns an estimated 16.5 million dollars a year and employees 11,000 Canadians. “

DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE WAY THEY ARE KILLED IN NAMIBIA – WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CANADA HERE

“9) Dolphins are killed by slitting the throat of the dolphin, this causes the dolphin to die slowly and in agony. “

SO WHY ARE THEY KILLING THEM? THIS IS WHY THERE ARE PROGRAMS IN PLACE + PEOPLE AS IN THE VIDEO CLIP MAKING THE WORLD AWARE… JUST AS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO WITH THE SEALS IN NAMIBIA (NOT CANADA) – LET’S STICK TO THE SAME PAGE…

“10) Seals are killed by a hakapik, which if use properly kills the seal instantly. People using the hakapik improperly are fined and risk jail time. “

DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE WAY THEY ARE KILLED IN NAMIBIA

“I could go on. “ IT SEEMS…

“The fact of life is that people kill animals, for food and clothing. I have no issues with that, since I enjoy meat and eat it daily, as long as the animals are not endangered and killed humanely. The fact of the matter is that PETA, Green Peace and other organizations have greatly exaggerated the seal hunt in an effort to make it look worse then it is. If people realized that the seal hunt was really no different then the slaughter of cows, sheep, chickens or any other domestic animal they would find no support. “

“For the most part these organizations are blowing hot air, most of them can't be bothered to send representatives past the St. Lawrence to the far north (which the Canadian Government patrols) because of extreme weather conditions, and actually end up harming more seals then they help by bothering the hunters and getting in the way. As Don said, the only white coat killed in the last few years was by a Green Peace van.“

BEEF, LAMB & OTHER MEAT…. THESE ANIMALS ARE SLAUGHTERED IN CONTROLLED SLAUGHTER HOUSES, AND THEY DO NOT SUFFER

DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE WAY THEY ARE KILLED IN NAMIBIA

THE THREAD HERE IS: THE CLUBBING OF SEALS IN NAMIBIA

I REPEAT… LET’S STICK TO THE SAME PAGE…

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~ love & gratitude ~

Well Moonbeam lets looks at this.

Dolphin Hunt vs. Canadian Seal Hunt

1) Most dolphin species, including those hunted by the Japanese, are endangered.

2) The seal population in Canada is holding steady at 5.8 million and seals are considered abundant.

3) Dolphin meat is considered harmful to humans due to high levels of mercury and it is discouraged to eat it.

4) Seal meat is fine to eat, and is encouraged in cold climates because of the energy stored in seal fat.

5)There is no other use for Dolphin's then meat, which is consumed by very few people in Japan, Figi and the Soloman Islands.

6) Seals provide fur and oils and are a source of food for many different countries, including Japan, Korea, China and Canada.

7) The sale of Dolphin meat does not contribute noticeably to the Japanese economy.

8) The sale of seal fur, oils and meat earns an estimated 16.5 million dollars a year and employees 11,000 Canadians.

9) Dolphins are killed by slitting the throat of the dolphin, this causes the dolphin to die slowly and in agony.

10) Seals are killed by a hakapik, which if use properly kills the seal instantly. People using the hakapik improperly are fined and risk jail time.

I could go on.

The fact of life is that people kill animals, for food and clothing. I have no issues with that, since I enjoy meat and eat it daily, as long as the animals are not endangered and killed humanely. The fact of the matter is that PETA, Green Peace and other organizations have greatly exaggerated the seal hunt in an effort to make it look worse then it is. If people realized that the seal hunt was really no different then the slaughter of cows, sheep, chickens or any other domestic animal they would find no support.

For the most part these organizations are blowing hot air, most of them can't be bothered to send representatives past the St. Lawrence to the far north (which the Canadian Government patrols) because of extreme weather conditions, and actually end up harming more seals then they help by bothering the hunters and getting in the way. As Don said, the only white coat killed in the last few years was by a Green Peace van.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

What can I say, I guess I care more about my countrymen then I do some seals. Damn how can I be so heartless.

----> are you trying to be funny there? :P

The Canadian government has ensured that the seal hunt is done as humanely as possible. It keeps a close watch and makes sure that the amount of seals taken doesn't harm the species. What more would you suggest they do?

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

I find it difficult to understand why someone cannot care about people and about animals at the same time. I don't think that it's a case of survival of the man vs the animals. It's up to people to organise their societies/economies in such a way, so they will not have to endanger animal species to earn their living.

Anyway what I've seen is far tooooooo cruel :(

May the roof above us never fall in, and may the friends below never fall out!

What can I say, I guess I care more about my countrymen then I do some seals. Damn how can I be so heartless.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Shimmer......I think you and I are on the same wavelength :)

Richard, I agree absolutely! Statistics show that more help goes to humans, and whilst I do my bit too..........there has to be at least some people that help the other lost causes too, don't you think? :)

Novi, thank you :)

Oops, I had said that I wouldn't come back to this post...oh dear! I'm off...........bye! xx :)

"Life is life - whether in a cat, or dog or man. There is no difference there between a cat or a man. The idea of difference is a human conception for man's own advantage." ~Sri Aurobindo

That's hardly an organized

That's hardly an organized hunt of dolphins MoonBeam,

----> I am afraid cant agree with your statement. Have a look of this video :

http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin

That if anyone have sparetime can sign the petition on here :

http://www.petitiononline.com/golfinho/

WoW Richard the Philosopher.

We are a long way off treatung extended tribes with the humanity they deserve. I am against cruelty to animals but I am even more against cruelty to humans.

If they same passion for the welfare of animals could be directed towards the eradication of poverty, hunger, disease, displacement, war and social exclusion directed against humans, then the world would truly be a better place.

Once a few steps are taken to address the points above, I will be first in line to join you. Until then, I am more concerned with doing my insignificant bit towsrds highlighting the plight of innocent humans.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

Am I too late for a Seal B_B_Q

Thank you!

On to another forum. See you there...

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

It's like shouting on deaf ears. So I leave you with a quote that in my opinion sums it up quite nicely:

"In an earlier stage of our development most human groups held to a tribal ethic. Members of the tribe were protected, but people of other tribes could be robbed or killed as one pleased. Gradually the circle of protection expanded, but as recently as 150 years ago we did not include blacks. So African human beings could be captured, shipped to America and sold. In Australia white settlers regarded Aborigines as a pest and hunted them down, much as kangaroos are hunted down today. Just as we have progressed beyond the blatantly racist ethic of the era of slavery and colonialism, so we must now progress beyond the speciesist ethic of the era of factory farming, of the use of animals as mere research tools, of whaling, seal hunting, kangaroo slaughter and the destruction of wilderness. We must take the final step in expanding the circle of ethics." ~Pete Singer

Also Moonbeam at 25 days old seal pups have been weaned (at 14 days) and abandoned by their mothers who usually has already mated again (In the case of the Harbour or Common Seal which is the one usually hunted). Also at 25 days they are in the process of moulting, which means, that yes they are fair game, but not wanted by hunters anyway because their pelts are no good, after this it is impossible to distinguish them from any other seal, meaning they look and act like adult seals, which to me means they are adult seals.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

That's hardly an organized hunt of dolphins MoonBeam, as I said, I don't believe anyone is purposely going out and killing dolphins, if you can find me the link of someone who does, please post it. And I'm sorry, but I don't recall saying dolphins were useless shimmer.

Seals are most certainly not useless, there's lots to be done with them, Hence the seal hunt.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

"TO my knowledge nobody slaughters dolphins." .. and that's why there is not a search engine called "Gypsey-pedia".. :)

But after this one, all I can say is for the most part humanity is either ignorant, don't care, and just selfish. No more input from me on this one. Talking to the wall here, but this is my view, and no judgements! :)

If you think dolphins are useless creatures then read, and maybe just take a peek at the link too:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/wisdom/dolphin.html

Dolphin Healing

With their curious nature and trademark "smile" -- formed by delicately curved jaws -- dolphins have become the symbol of the friendly playmate of the sea. Indeed, as NATURE's WISDOM OF THE WILD shows, some dolphins do seem to form special attachments with people -- including disabled children who fail to respond to other kinds of therapy.

Some parents, in fact, say the chance to swim with captive dolphins has changed their child's life. Withdrawn autistic children, for instance, have responded to the marine mammals in remarkable ways -- forging bonds that have proved difficult with human playmates. The idea, say psychologists familiar with the technique, is that the promise of swimming with such a large and fascinating creature provides an incentive to try different -- and sometimes difficult -- therapeutic tasks.

Dolphins seem to have a healing touch.

Some parents, in fact, say the chance to swim with captive dolphins has changed their child's life. Withdrawn autistic children, for instance, have responded to the marine mammals in remarkable ways -- forging bonds that have proved difficult with human playmates. The idea, say psychologists familiar with the technique, is that the promise of swimming with such a large and fascinating creature provides an incentive to try different -- and sometimes difficult -- therapeutic tasks.

One of the prime movers behind Dolphin Human Therapy, as it is known, is David Nathanson, a clinical psychologist living in Florida. In the late 1970s, he used the reward of swimming with dolphins to motivate children with Down's syndrome to learn. He found that the children who worked with dolphins learned up to four times faster -- and remembered more of what they learned -- than those in conventional classroom settings.

In the 1980s, "Dr. Dave," as he became known, organized a dolphin-assisted therapy program in the Florida Keys that eventually grew into a full-fledged center in Key West. Since 1994, it has worked with children from over 37 states and 20 countries.

While some researchers dispute the effectiveness of the program, others say the work with dolphins parallels the success of other animal therapy programs, which use everything from pet mice to racehorses to help people cope with problems in their lives. But dolphin therapy can be prohibitively expensive. To address that problem, Nathanson and others are working on creating a "virtual dolphin experience," which recaptures the joy and freedom of swimming with the animals using video and computer technologies. If successful, virtual dolphins will eventually allow some children to get at least part of the thrill of the experience without leaving home

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“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

Me thinks you need to do some research. You know that can of tuna you have in your cupboard? Well unless it's dolphin friendly..........you will have AT LEAST one source to speak of.

Oh and Don.........Whitecoats lose their coats after 14-22 days of age. At 25 days old, they are fair game. THEY ARE STILL BABIES! Maybe not fuzzy cute whitecoats, but nonetheless still only 25 days old.

"Why should man expect his prayer for mercy to be heard by What is above him when he shows no mercy to what is under him?" ~Pierre Troubetzkoy

TO my knowledge nobody slaughters dolphins. Dolphins, however, like any species, kill and eat their food. Humans are a part of the eco system as well you know.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

What's wrong with this world? It's all very well claiming that it's legal, or controlled, or it's a conspiracy, or whatever clever things we can come up with.... - bottom line!! we are messing with the balance of our eco-system.

View and weep...

http://www.bluevoice.org/webfilms_damon.shtml

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“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

Hoover (seal)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hoover

Born 1971?

Died July 25, 1985

New England Aquarium

Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Children 6

Hoover (1971? — July 25, 1985) is the name of a harbor seal that was able to imitate basic human speech.

He was found in Harpswell, Maine by George and Alice Swallow in 1971 who brought him home. When Hoover outgrew the bathtub, he was transferred to the pond outside their house where he began to imitate George. Again he was moved, this time to the New England Aquarium, where he told visitors to "Get outta here!" in a thick, slightly drunken New England accent.

Thanks to this, he became the world's most famous seal and he appeared in world-renowned publications like Reader's Digest and The New Yorker and television programs like Good Morning America.

Hoover died on July 25, 1985 due to complications during his annual molt. None of his six pups (daughters Joey, Amelia and Trumpet and sons Lucifer, Cinder and Spark) have their father's gift, but grandson Chacoda (or "Chucky") has shown an ability to be guided in his vocalizations and is currently learning to say "how are you". After his death, he got an obituary in The Boston Globe.

Ok now that I have your attention focussed on to the starving, sick and dying, here are some more feeds for you (no pun intended) :)

http://www.selfhelp.ie/selfhelp/Main/Home.asp

http://www.standagainstpoverty.org/?gclid=CPvt0JSgwo0CFQYMXgodWRXPFQ

http://www.friendsofwfp.org/site/pp.asp?c=7oIJLSOsGpF&b=245179

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“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

Baby seals are not hunted in Canada and haven't been for about 20 years. The nice pictures of whitecoats that you see are old pictures. The seal hunt that everyone seems concerned about is (and has been) traditionally done in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. There are no Inuits there but there are Indian and White fishermen who are licenced to hunt.

Actually I shold hold off on that a little bit. 2 years ago a whitecoat was killed after a World Wildlife Fund employee ran over one by accident.

That's why I asked if they were really killing seal pups in Namibia or if it was just some hype.

Brain to body mass ratio (also known as the Encephalization Quotient or EQ) is a rough estimate of the possible intelligence of an organism.

Roughly speaking, the larger an organism is, the more brain mass is required for housekeeping tasks, such as breathing, thermoregulation, senses, motor skill, etc.The larger the brain is relative to the body, the more brain mass might thus be available for more complex cognitive tasks. This method, as opposed to the method of simply measuring brain mass alone, puts humans closer to the top of the list.

Dolphins have the highest brain to body mass ratio of all cetaceans. Sharks have the highest for a fish, and octopuses have the highest for an invertebrate. Humans have a higher brain to body mass ratio than any of these animals.

For example the ratio of brain weight to body weight for fish is 1:5000; for reptiles it is about 1:1500; for birds, 1:220; for most mammals, 1:180, and for humans, 1:50.

We (AS HIGHLY EVOLVED AN INTELLIGENT WE SEEM TO BE) do not yet understand the true nature and extent of neuroscience. Animal Cruelty is everywhere. So where is this intelligence we so proudly speak of in the human race. Do you see a dolphin (considered by many as the second most intelligent being on this planet under a human) killing humans for profit.

I say we are the beasts of this world; and unless alternative energies are found; we will leave a legacy of destruction behind us for our great grandchildren. Animal Activists; Human Rights Activists are the forward thinkers. They at least see the potential for change.

Baby seals are not hunted and haven't been for about 20 years. The nice pictures of whitecoats that you see are old pictures. The seal hunt that everyone seems concerned about is (and has been) traditionally done in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. There are no Inuits there but there are Indian and White fishermen who are licenced to hunt.

Actually I shold hold off on that a little bit. 2 years ago a whitecoat was killed after a World Wildlife Fund employee ran over one by accident.

That's why I asked if they were really killing seal pups in Namibia or if it was just some hype.

why do we all tend to be so "human" towards animals and so blind, cold and rude towards other humans?

Instead of digging for websites for baby seals, why don't we just simply google "world hunger"

a 1% of our income would make a difference, if we all gather up to do it.

I am not saying that seals clubbing is acceptable, I am not saying that protesting against seals' clubbing is not a good cause.

I would back it up and put it as priority 1 if humans were not killed for oil and money, enslaved due to poverty, starving to death, dying from curable deseases just because they cannot afford paying for the cure, ...

If seals had voices, they would have first protected their own kind/ species before looking to help starving humans...

Also don't make me laugh about their being lots of jobs for Inuits in Ottawa and Toronto. The chances of an Inuit being hired in these places is slim to none, since other then hunting, they don't really have any other skills.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

The Inuit catch Artic Char and many other kinds of fish. They also hunt Caribou, Moose, Muskox, Elk and whales (Beluga and Narwhale). The live almost entirely off of these animals and have for thousands of years. To date they have yet to find a synthetic material as warm and water resistant as seal skin. And the oils found in Whale and Seal are essential to their diets.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Cuteness factor hides behind seal hunt protests

Quoting

"White coats or no white coats, the only reason this issue is even seen as an issue is because the baby seals are cute and fuzzy. Fish are harvested using nets that grab them by their gills and haul them out of the water into an environment where they can no longer breathe. Gasping for breath they are then gutted using long sharp knives while they are still wriggling with the last bit of life they will enjoy before their innards spill out onto the fisher’s table. This practice is far from humane, and yet I’ve never heard of anyone protesting it."

http://www.ubyssey.bc.ca/OldWebs/2006/20060328/article.shtml?Opinion/14c.html

Author — Mr. John Kendler

Political Science 4

Lets ask the inuits to stop killing seals and ask them to catch fish. They can sell fish and eat as well. But the dilemma is that there are not enough fish left in the sea.

so any alternatives. make them migrate to Toronto or ottawa where there are plenty of job opportunities. or let them die but enfore the "No seal hunt rule"

those who are in favor of banning the seal hunt, may I ask them what is the substitute to the seal hunt for Inuits.

Human Rights of people associated with the seal business

Animal Rights of seals

Culture of the Inuits who have for centuries been in the seals business

Ecology *ical benefits of the seal hunt

Economy associated with the seal trade

Lets take away one or two and see what happens

It is illegal to kill seals with white coats. Hence it is illegal to kill baby seals. Seals must be 25 days or older, which in seal world makes it no longer a baby.

I don't know how you can compare an organized hunt that is monitored and done as humanely as possible with dousing a dog with petrol and lighting it ablaze. Little naive don't you think.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Gypsy, Don come on! Get your facts straight! Clubbing baby seals is illegal? Tell that to Mr. Harper in Canada! Explain to me why baby seals were hunted last year?

Don't just talk for the sake of talking. If you were brought up by parents that found this acceptable, and therefore you find it acceptable then it's just the same as a kid dousing a dog with petrol and setting him ablaze just because his parents told him dogs are dirty.

Namibia, is a THIRD world country! I don't expect their government to understand; what shocks me is that perfectly educated people actually condone this.

Plus......Vicious? If someone walked up to you and your baby with a baseball bat; wouldn't you be vicious? They are wild animals! Of course they are going to defend themselves.

My God! What is it with the world!

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi

Thank you for your compliments. Keep them coming and

Good Bye and Good Luck

Good point richard

What about the Khao San tribesmen in Namibia... their lives not worth a damm because they aren't seals?

by all means protest against this if that is what you want to do.

but dont make the Namibian people suffer - it isn't their fault.

your issue is between you and government policy

Don't recall saying I was right, just giving the facts on my position. I don't believe I contradicted myself either. But if you want to be a baby Scorpio, then fine by me.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

The cruel and inhumane way of despatching these baby seals is horrifying.

However, it is interesting and upsetting that human tragedy never seems to elicit the same emotional response as cruelty to animals.

We should all be outraged and furious that in so many parts of the world, children literally starve to death, are often blinded by easily curable diseases, are abused and enslaved by cynical profiteers and pedophiles. That so many are the orphans of AIDS sufferers.

Moreover, the value of human life is so low in some areas that the poor and the desperate offer themselves as ginae pigs to drug companies testing their drugs in order to feed their families.

Yes, the treatment of baby seals in Namibia is appalling but why aren't we out in the streets protesting against the horrors inflicted on vulnerable and innocent humans by other humans?

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

The cruel and inhumane way of despatching these baby seals is horrifying.

However, it is interesting and upsetting that human tragedy never seems to elicit the same emotional response as cruelty to animals.

We should all be outraged and furious that in so many parts of the world, children literally starve to death, are often blinded by easily curable diseases, are abused and enslaved by cynical profiteers and pedophiles. That so many are the orphans of AIDS sufferers.

Moreover, the value of human life is so low in some areas that the poor and the desperate offer themselves as ginie pigs to drug companies testing their drugs in order to feed their families.

Yes, the treatment of baby seals in Namibia is appalling but why aren't we out in the streets protesting against the horrors inflicted on vulnerable and innocent humans by other humans?

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi

can I PM you to discuss about Africa.

Thanks

First of all, in Canada seals are not skinned alive. Secondly, baby seals have not been harvested for over 20 years. Thirdly, the seal which are killed are killed humanely according to veterinary standards. I wonder if this on Namibia is also a myth.

'you are against the method by which the seals are killed i.e., clubbing so which method do you prefer to kill the seals?'

Can you not think of any other humane way to kill an animal? You are sick, truly disturbed and stupid!

As for you Gypsy I have lost any respect I had for you…what Gypsy says, goes, right Qlers? You contradict yourself all the time but your always right hey? Hell why don’t you start bashing ANY creature when they are over populated??? I cannot believe any human being can support the bashing of any creature. It's so heartless and cruel :(

I have lost faith in this site, and will not associate with such cruel individuals. I wish you all well.....signing off for the last time...cant be bothered anymore :(

Peace x

Clubbing seals is; What I called, Batting and swinging classes, for those who did not made it in the baseball leagues!

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery

None but ourselves can free our minds..

.. and thanks!

We got a bit side tracked.. :)

Was jus' makin' my point clearer

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“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

Which ever method would make it very quick and/or painless! There are ways!

But why do this anyway if the seals in that area are in danger of being an endangered species?? Fine that other countries have too many of them, but we enjoy and treasure our wildlife that we have here. Its enough that poachers are endangering rhino's, and other animals. [Another issue/posting..]

Come to Africa to see the beauty all these animals allow us when we go into the bush, or go to the coasts.. Maybe you have, maybe you understand :)

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“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

you are against the method by which the seals are killed i.e., clubbing so which method do you prefer to kill the seals?

ShotGun?

Knife?

poisoning?

Alexa.. and can you imagine how the little seals pooh themselves while their heads are smashed in, then left to die slowly when the job not done properly, and their throats not slit as they were overlooked!! They are helpless in the first place, and in the hands of these people... I can say no more...

Gypsey.. yes more awareness needs to be brought to the public, and thankfully there are those precious souls who ARE out there and doing something. Creations of websites such as the 2 I've posted are as result of something being done.

It's a subject that people would rather turn a blind eye to (no judgment) but probably due to the hurt (shame of our human race too) that comes up. Most cannot go to that part of themselves - it is not an easy one. It is very painful to even think about..

But its a duty we have to our earth brothers and sisters...

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“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

Also, just another little piece of info about seals. They're like rabbits, breeding constantly. When I was young the seal hunt was illegal (I believe it was for 10 or 15 years during the 80's and early 90's)the seal population boomed. We used to look out our window down to the ocean and the ice would be black with seals. There would be hundreds dead on the side of the road from being hit by cars and every spring hundreds upon thousands would wash up dead from starvation and attacks from other seals and we would have to bury the corpses. Personally if it's a choice of 300,000 being killed quickly from clubbing or slowly from starvation, I will take the clubbing.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

As I said. Took out the baseball bat and drove them 2 kms back to the water. If they snapped I gave them a good crack on the face. They move pretty quickly actually.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Yup I did Alexa. And I lived a good 2kms from the ocean. The bull males like to travel in search of females. They used to attack my dog (Though granted she started it by barking, but considering she was a little poodle I don't think it was a fair fight).

Shimmer, someone else brought up the Canadian seal hunt. I agree their should be licensing measures put in place by the Namibian government, as well as conservation plans.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

..the article is about the culling in Namibia, and the cruel way in which its done, not how legal it is in Canada, Alaska, or Timbuktoo

These guys have no clue how to do this, and unless they learn how to do it (SHOULD this be a necessity due to numbers) then the public will get upset and do something about it, e.g. petition, etc. As it happens the mumbers of seals there are at risk, hence the pro-active stance being taken...

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

They are killed humanely according to World Veterinary...you don't honestly believe this do you...LOL...

Gypsy, really I'm shocked...I thought you had more morality....what a cruel world we live in :(Have a nice evening ..night :(

I don't need to go into the jungle or even go out onto the ice. In the winter I used to go into my back yard. As for beating vicious creatures. I'm sure if there was a population of 5.8 million lions in a single country in Africa there would be a cull.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

They are killed humanely according to World Veterinary standards and has been investigated and proven half a dozen times. In fact the method of killing when done properly is considered more humane then most slaughterhouse methods. Now in Namibia I would question weather they are being done properly, in Canada I don't. You need to pass rigorous testing (unless of course you're Inuit) in order to get a seal license. You can read this Question and Answer if you want.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/faq_e.htm

In all honesty, people can call me cruel if they want, but 16.5 million dollars a year and a lively hood for 11,000 people in a province with over 40% unemployment is more important then few dead seals.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Oh and I have lived near seals most my life. If they feel threated by humans presence of course they will attack. Just like if you went into the jungle and approached a wild cat. Should they be beaten as well? Hell, let's just beat all vicious creatures hey? Why only stick to 'vicious' seals!

So your saying that all these seals that are beaten to death are attacking humans?

Oh and I didn't say IF a dog was attacking you.

So why the brutal treatment. Why cant they kill them humanely? It's probably as I suspect, these people have morals or conscience. Really doesn't surprise me at all!

I'd beat a dog with a baseball bat if it was attacking me yes. Who wouldn't. Seals are not cute and cuddly like you think, they are vicious and dangerous.

In Canada we also cull Elk, Deer, Caribou and Moose, nobody complains about them. It's the "cute, cuddly" baby seal (which by the way it's illegal to kill a baby seal).

The seal hunt is strictly monitored both by the Canadian government and the tree huggers. Not many people can get away with breaking the law, with the exception of the Inuit populations in the far far north who kill an estimated 10,000 seals a year (probably a lot more, but they don't report it).

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

Actually I do cry about any animal being tortured.

Humans are the vicious one's....I mean seriously, what does that say about a person who can beat a innocent animal to death?

Cannibalism went on for centuries as a source of lively hood. But that is considered barbaric. In fact I can state many sources of lively hoo d that are NOT exceptable.

Oh and many people see dogs as vicious creatures, so do they have the right to beat them with a baseball bat?

They shoot cows through the head with a bolt to kill them, I don't see anyone crying about that. Seal hunting has been going on for centuries and will continue, it's a source of lively hood for many many people. And believe me, they aren't all that cute when you have to chase a couple back down to the water with a baseball bat. Vicious creatures.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

.. you're on the wrong forum, honey's

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

I honestly don't know how anyone can justify the beating of ANY creature to death. It's despicable and heartbreaking :(

If you are going to Africa.

You need to visit their Embassy and ask them What kind of vaccines are you required to have?

Don't forget to take a Bunny sun hat and some MOSQUITO REPELLENT!!

I lived and work for four years in Africa. Good traveling days, friends and memories.

Try to book the tour for the Gorillas is 6 months out.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery

None but ourselves can free our minds..

I am very interested in Uganda. Any output is really appriciated. I have already checked. entabe return QR 1530 only. have the choice to stay in Adis Ababa also. heard great nightlife there also.

fish, grains, imports, etc. to live on... It's got a fair economy.

Taming Namibia's tourist industry will not cripple it's economy, just wake them up.

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

.. we need video clips like these to also show the world how human beings are being slaughtered too (for oil & money), but the media is blocked one way or another. We are not seeing enough and/or the real thing

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

Can you people give the poor Namibians something else to live on other than the fur

You people want to take the only source of livelihood from them and make the humans die of hunger

Have you been to africa and do you know how many people die everyday of starvation, famine, malnutrition.

How many people die in africa because of no access to health facilities and the doctors.

I also do not want to see the baby seals killed but I would rather accept the killing of seals than to see young kids consisting of only skin and bones dying of hunger and famine. I have made my point

Another link you may like to explore:

http://www.sealalert.org/

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

“From the Millions of Deceased Seals Souls Rose.”

you would say that, you're Canadian.

Canada is responsible for the annual cull of seals which see's over 250,000 animals being skinned alive, or if they are lucky clubbed to death.

Namibia is a third world country, and even though it's no excuse............what excuse does canada have?

It's ridiculous, I love canada......great policies, health care etc; but this is one thing that just really upsets me.

It's not controlled culling. I campaigned against this practice for a year full time. It may be time for people around the world to read both sides of the story.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi

If you go to the website shown and click on 'did you know' you will read as below. It is for the fur only, and then if you go look at the video clips on how brutally they are slaughtered tell me that this did not bring a tear or 2. It is not necessary to kill them so brutally.

[img_assist|nid=26529|title=for fur!|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=136]

DID YOU KNOW?

The killing of seals in Namibia, which began on 1 July 2007 and intends to run for five months, plans to kill 80 000 baby seals. The Namibian government claims that the reason for this is because seals are consuming all the fish. This is NOT TRUE AND THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR THIS! Fish are being depleted by irresponsible commercial fishing companies.

The Namibian Seal ‘Cull’ violates the Constitutions of both Namibia and South Africa. The Government of Namibia is also violating international conservation agreements that it has agreed to honour, such as the Convention In Trade of Endangered Species (CITES) which Namibia ratified in 1991.

Cape Fur Seal products are banned from import in the United States of America Mexico, Croatia, Belgium, Italy, South Africa and most recently in Germany and the Netherlands, which are Namibia’s two largest tourist groups.

The Namibian cull violates the South African and Namibian Constitutions with regard to environmental sustainability. Research shows that the 80 000 quota agreed to by the Namibian government exceeds the total number of pups, and this means that continuing with the 2007 Cape Fur Seal cull will effectively eliminate all young seals.

The methods used are extremely cruel. The Namibian government admits that those employed to kill seals are untrained, poor and destitute. Baby seals are often clubbed many times, then stabbed in the chest or heart and left to die a long and painful death. This has been documented and is available for viewing on YouTube.

Other countries which cull seals are Canada, Greenland, Norway and Russia. ALL OF THEM have BANNED the killing of nursing baby seal pups. In Namibia, however, 90 per cent of the seals killed are nursing seal pups. THIS IS OUTRIGHT SLAUGHTER THAT CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED AT ANY LEVEL AND FOR ANY REASON.

[img_assist|nid=26192|title=shimmer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=170|height=180]

Believe it or not culling can be good for the population as long as it is controlled culling. Especially if there is a food shortage.

"I fight with love and I laugh with rage, you have to live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change." Ani Difranco

they are not killing humans for money and oil

i am going to uganda next week

yesssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

first time africa?

go to namibia it has great diversity

etosha game park

canyon

interesting ethnic groups

lovely safe capital city

uganda can do the game stuff too

flights cheaper emirates via ethiopia to entebbe

google red chillis uganda... has some good info

have you actually ever been to namibia?

it is a wonderful place - and i would recommend it 100% for first time africa travel

if you dont like one aspect of their society fair enough but target the specific issue.. a general boycott will hurt people who need the money and are not responsible for this and have no power to stop it

in fact here is a good web link if u want to visit namibia

http://www.wilddog-safaris.com/

i will support namibia just dont like the culling

Which is better namibia or Uganda. I am considering one of these two places for Ramadan holidays.can not get more info on Uganda though.

Thanks,