physics

who are you talking about? :)

The best thing about this site is that you can think that someone is so smart for the longest time until they write something :)

i know that ;)

killer_g, quarks have a fraction of charge! The up-quark has a 2/3 charge, the down-quark has a -1/3 charge. If you construct a proton you will need 2 up-quarks (2/3 + 2/3) and one down-quark (-1/3), so that you'll get 3/3 = 1. To construct a neutron you'll need one up-quark (2/3) and two down-quarks (2 * -1/3) to get 0! The same applies to the second and third generation of quarks (charme, strange, top, and bottom). But again, protons do not contribute to the charge. Protons do not move like electrons do. Current is always movement (or better energy transfer) across an electromagnetic field. Electrons on their side interact via photons.

what guys no comments?

lol thats alot

LN if you were talking about batteries,the only thing that moves is electrons,how?

the + side have more energy than the - side,so the + side gives it energy to some electrons,which will delivers it to the - side,so both sides would have same amount of energy.

so in batteries.

how ever, electrons, protons, neutrons are not the smallest thing ever,they are made of quarks.

quarks are the smallest ever discovered,and electrons, protons, neutrons charges depends on the quarks.

there are six quarks,(up-down-strange-attractive-under-over(i guess)),up,attractive and over have a positive charge,and down,strange and under have a negative charge.

so in the battery there is no such thing as positive charge.

still not convinced PG?

ok so when we want to calculate the charge,we will use this formula:(bcoz there is no other formula)

the charge(in current electricity)=the electron charge*the number of electrons.

it might be hard for the most to calculate the number the electrons in the conductor,but everything is possible.

the number of the electrons=the number of atoms*the number of the electrons in the last orbit.

p.s:the number of the atoms=the number of the molls*6.02*10^23

and the number of the molls=the mass of the conductor/the mollic mass (i don't think i spell it right :P)

Their plus is your Minus. ( it works better for all and I don't find it misleading. Unless you like to work your numbers in the bottom left corner of multidimensional positive/negative axis)

The "negative" charge of the electron is a historical definition. Engineers say a current flows from "plus" to "minus". For a physicist this is pure nonsense, since it's the electrons that represent the current, and they always flow from their (negative) potential to an area with less negative potential. Common language defines it as "plus", for a physicist it is "holes".

Actually there is no such thing as "cold", PG. At zero Kelvin atoms stop to oscillate, basically they stop to exist, because you know they aren't particles at all, rather fields with certain characteristics. At zero Kelvin the fields collapse. Anything above zero Kelvin is heat. There is nothing below zero Kelvin. That's why it is called absolute zero, too.

LP thanks for reminding that radius and charge and constants are not vectors! I assume killer-G is smart enough to get what I was talking about..

Absence of negative charge is positive. Just like the absence of heat is COLD and not No-Heat.

Dude, you should not have typed that! u killed it heheh

refresh your knowledge with some reading maybe it might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge

I am speechless...

if you insistent,yea

however,i promise that i'll open another one.

(you are propebly thinking in this thing right now : "wtf is he doing?????!!!!)

thx for the help mate

thats right..you can combine equations within current electricity but when you try to combine current electricity with static electricity, the logic needs to be clear, there should be a physical relationship and/or you should be able to prove it through an experiment.

Ok, shall we close this thread now?

i know,and the 2 law that i mixed are in current electricty

Electrons move..but the actual movement of electrons is insignificant compared to the speed of current. However, its not possible to trace the movement of any particular electron.

But, in static electricity, when a charged body is earthed or brought close to another neutral body, there is an actual movement of charge ( a cluster of electrons) breaking the di-electric, across the points of least resistance.

That is the difference between static electricity and current flowing in a circuit.

if you noticed,q in current electricty =the electron charge*the number of the electrones.

how the electron moves in a closed circuit?the battry gives some energy to the free electrones in atoms of the conductor(from the p or o orbits),so that it frees it from the atom.and it moves to the low poinental area (the - side)to deliver energy.

the first electrons have a lot of energy,so other electrones take some(usually that half).

so ALL the electrons moves.

its similar to the water pipe,at the first it create pressure(energy),so the water flows to the low pressure(low energy) area(our tap),so all the water moves.

and i have no idea where is LincolnPirate is,hijacking sudanese ships perhaps?

"since the length of a conductor is the same distance that the charge will travel,they are the same thing.."

Are you sure about it? So, you mean to say that each electron actually travels the length of the conductor?

I visualised it something like a pipe filled with fluid..as soon as there is an increased pressure of electrons at any point, this is transmitted instantaneously in all directions based on the resistance of the paths. The electron 'x' doesn't actually travel the whole distance of the path instantaneously.

Where is LP??

kr: p is the resistivity,with is a constant for every material, for example, copper resistivity is 1.8*10^-8 or 1.7*10^-8 (i dont remember :P)

and it has a unit of "Ω.m".

resistance < (resistivity*the length of the conductor)/the area of the conductor

so

R=Pr/A

so its the same thing

the length,the distance traveled,since the length of a conductor is the same distance that the charge will travel,they are the same thing (r or l or e)in the book that i have, its r,in wikipedia,its e.

and im taking about the same thing.

btw they should make a group for physics and things like it,am i right guys?

killer-g, I have never read R=Pr/A, so you need to define the terms to me. I knew R=Pl/A which is specific resistivity x length divided by the area of cross section of the conductor.

In this case, both the equations can be combined as they have a bearing on each other...if ofcourse you are talking about the same thing.

kr:are you telling me that R=V/I

and R=Pr/A are not related????

forget about the law of force and sh!t(sorry), i know that it was wrong.

the reason i wrote that force law is bcoz i manged to get physics books that they study in the first year in al-azhar university in gaza,and i finished it today :)

so i didn't know that much,now im better than ever ;)

im also reading this book about nuclear physics(also from gaza university).

and dont be afraid of "demotive" me,and i got that kernel :)

btw where i can buy physics books? other that jarir bookstore

killer-g, math is the language of physics..but what is the point in combining two unrelated equations which don't have any physical bearing on each other???

anyways..don't get demotivated by my words. iam afraid you didn't get the kernel of my post.

f

thx for the nice word you typed up there,but i already know that.

real physics should be discovered by experiments and stuff.

i dont have that kind of money to buy a lab., or even a small one, so i'll stick to math and physics,and btw who told you that real physics cant be combined with math???

first of all,physics is the study of how things work,so,you can figure out how things work,but if you want to put it in a formula,you really need math.

for inctance,coloumb law.

coloumb noticed that there is a magnitude force between the charges,that depends on the charge it self,and the distance between them.

physics in coloumb law is over now,lets go to the math part:

killer-g, It's good to know you have interest in physics and you are thinking a lot...do carry on.

One day you may realise that in this world, which is apparently chaotic and uncertain, physics is one of the vehicles in the quest towards simplicity and clarity. So, any function established between variables would come in the domain of physics only if it is defining a certain physical activity or phenomenon. Two un-related phenomena, which do not have any practical or theoretical presence in relation to each other, if combined through maths, doesn't make anything simple. So, that's not physics.

here is another thing to argue about :

since R=V/I,,,,R=Pr/A

Pr/a=V/I

Pr/a=vq/t

v=ptr/aq

since P=E/J and (E=kq/r2,,,J=I/A)so p=kqI/r2A

so at the end: v=kIt/A2r

or v=kq/A2r

so what do you think guys?btw you can disappoint me any time :)

and is there is any other units for electrical force?

before you guys say anything,i was wrong,bcoz i didnt i did the math totally wrong.

anyway,I agree with KR.

question:the unit of force is newton,so what is the unit of ponintal def.?(dont tell its volt or j/s coz i already know that)

PG, radius is NOT a vector, charge is NOT a vector, coulomb constant is NOT a vector either. And there are no positive charges. There are only negative charges and the absence of it, also called 'holes'. It hurts to witness how some people try to use everyday language thinking they'd be able to express science.

Well, he said it is a question for Physicians. So it's for the guys from Hamad to discuss I think!

so what do you think pg?

v=qR/t*

qR/t=kq/r2 >>> R=kt/r2*

im so hungry so im not fully concentrated :P

@namoerci: yea but i should pay alot of money i dont have so i havent found any school yet :(

@pg:i admit it, i was wrong,i did some math and proved my big failure ,however,i found out that f2=f1r

how?

since f2=kqQ/r2

and f1=vq/r...

so q=f2r/kQ

and q=f1r/v...

q1=q2(the same charge)

f2r/kQ=f1r/v >>> f2/kQ=f1/v >>> k=f2r/Qf1

according to the formula v=kq/r >>> k=vr/Q

k=k

vr/Q=f2r/Qf1 >>skipping the math part>> f2=f1.r

so getting back to the point at the first:

f2=kqQ/r2 f1=vq/r

f2=f1r

kqQ/r2=vq >>> v=kq/r2(i guess)

also v=qr/t

qr/t=kq/r2 >>> r/t=k/r2 >>> r3=tk..........

so what do you think?

p.s i know im acting like a d**khead today but i like physice and i finally found someone who likes it

Here the functions of static electricity is being combined with that of current electricity which I think is not correct.

Ohms law is applicable to a current carrying conductor, temperature remaining constant...whereas the first function is applicable to interactions between statically charged particles, insulators included.

Have you checked out some schools killer?

@snessy i dont study this stuff,the only thing we study is colomb law

How nice, you're all helping him with his homework :-)

hehe you remind me of someone :)

You are still assuming that the effect of one charge on another charge is equivalent to force needed to move a charge a certain distance in a medium where there is a potential difference.

The only time you could be correct is if you have only 1 single electron passing through the channel. (therefore you will not have any force exerted as a result of any other charge including the tube's interference or the medium's surroundings ( we know for sure it is not a vacuum because there is an electron going through :) )

Get into Quantum mechanics. More fun than all this.

i like physics too,and its my passion,but what do you think of my proof?

Well I like physics and its a passion.. but I am into the adult film industry.

remember

Physics is like sex. Sometimes we get some practical results, but that's not why we're doing it!

proof*,and posetrone have a really short life,and if there was a contact between prsitrone and electron,bothof them will be transformed into energy(gama ray).

btw your profile says that you work as a director , so what is with the physics thing? bcoz you seem so good at it

the prof that f1=f2:

v=f1r/q >>> v=Er >>> E=v/r

E=f2/q

mix it all together:

f2/q=v/r

rf2=vq >>>>>> f2=vq/r

and v=f1r/q >> f1=vq/r

so what do you think????

sorry for being a stubborn ;)

Positrons too :) not simultaneously I hope heheh

btw in the tube,the only thing that moves is the electron,bcoz neutrons and protons simply cant move

its ok,totally worth it ;)

Even if at any point during the electron's motion in the tube, the tube will have no other charge passing through but this very electron? and that the only thing acting on the electron is just the potential difference that exists in the battery, you still can't use the F1=F2.

Sorry :(

in case i was wrong(in your point of view) , let me explain my point:

if you notice,the battery have 2 sides,+,-.

every single side works as a large charge.

since the battery (the - side)affect the electrons in the conductor,electrons would move to the + side.

so it can be calculated by colomb law(when q=electron charge,Q=the ion charge)or with the first f(when q=the electron charge).

and if you notice,the more cells(cathods and anods)we use,the higher voltage we get,so if we use 3 anods(+ charges),we will get 1.5*3=4.5 volts.

there is no attraction force between the +,- sides of the battery, bcoz it is covered by some sort of(maybe amoniom cloried)which is not a conductor,and even if there was attraction force,it would be uniform(straight lines of attrachion)......

well,thats it!!

hope i made my self clear

thx for the help..................again

so im i right?

and thx for the cheer:D

F1 changes when any of the charges change or when the distance between them change.

F2 only depends on the voltage, the single charge and the distance you would wanna move the charge

So if you have 2 charges (let us assume 1 positive and 1 negative like your battery example)

There will be always an attracting force in between them that is different at every point. Now at every single point, you will require another force Fx to move a charge to the left or to the right. ( you will need to also apply newton's law to find out the magnitude and direction, depending on how the particle in between will behave)

Sum of F = ma (vector) - sum of F will include your F1 and F2 and any other forces resulting from other charges.

You are not even 16 and you are ahead of people who lived most of their lives :) good for you

well,i think that f1=f2,maybe.f1 calculates the force between 2 charges(q,Q),and f2 calculates the force needed to move (q) for a distance (r),and that force comes from a power source,which is a battery.

any battery have anod,and cathod,which are basically ions.

ions are an atom that gained-lost electrons during a chemical reaction.

so they are basically charges.

R=Kt/r.........if it was correct,it would give the resistance of a conductor ,with knowing the time that a(q) took to cross it,and knowing the distance.

anyway,i will be 16 next monday,so im still young,and i could be wrong. ;)

thx for the help

Everything in here is a Vector!

-------------------------------

V=W/q , W=f.r (r=radius or distance,q=charge , w=work , f=force , k= colomb constant , v=poinental deference), v=f.r/q }}}}

f=v.q/r (again vector)

coulomb law : f=kQq/r2

(this f is the magnitude of the force between 2 charges Q and q)

f1=f2 --> ??? why?

the first F is the result of moving one charge a distance r! ( has nothing to do with the presence of another charge)

The second F is due to the result of the presence of another charge. Just because they are both called F, does not mean they are equal in magnitude or in direction.

well,i'll try to add that to the formula,but is it new???

There isn't always resistance. At (in the meantime several) temperature levels (depending on the composite used) we have super-conductivity with zero resistance.

The variable T (temperature in Kelvin) is missing in your equations, but it will have unexpected effects.

lol cl,well,i have brought some cyber hookers with me ;),and cyber beds.

btw,your is cyber ferrari 8-bit or 32-bit,coz i cant guess what type is it!

anyway,the cyber party is about to get crashed by hackers

Lol.. Good for you..

Cyber party?? Whats that going to be like?? Cyber girls, Cyber booze and Cyber food?

Ok... Im sending you a Cyber gift .. here's the Cyber Ferrari :D

they are 3, including you,bcoz there is one hater (first comment) so he is not and will never be included.and why would i forget you????im so happy right now,i can throw a cyber party(you are all invited, except the first one)

4 - forgot me?? :P

so only 3 guys in ql that can understand physics??????c'mon!!!!

thx bluebull,but r=distance , R=Resistance

Killer - If R is for acceleration than your formula is correct if r is approaching zero. And yes its a new one. Congrats!

@cl lololololol,and yea,physics is like sex,i mean i did this thing up(the new discovery :D),but i have no idea why.

ONLY LP can define what physics really is !!

But to answer your question, i think its "new" .. :)

Resistance,and what with the "rumor"thing?

What is your "R"? Resistance? Or "Rumor"?

well its a question for physicians not for ppl like you,so your comment was sooo un-wanted

thx anyway

it is a Qatar social network; not a google or yahoo answers for maths and phy-sicks questions to be answered.

Is it a joke?