Rape, the woman's fault?
Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women
By Rebecca Camber
Last updated at 12:02 AM on 15th February 2010
A victim of 'day-rape' or drugged rape. The CPS did not allow her case to go to court despite there being substantial evidence
A victim of 'day-rape' or drugged rape. The CPS did not allow her case to go to court despite there being substantial evidence
Half of women think that rape victims are to blame for their attack, a study has shown.
More than one in ten said that dancing provocatively, flirting or wearing revealing clothing made them partly responsible.
This blame culture is deterring victims from reporting the crime, according to the sexual assault clinics that carried out the poll.
Alarmingly, they also found that one in three men claimed they didn't think it was rape if they made their partner have sex when they didn't want to.
Thirteen per cent of men admitted having sex with a partner who was too drunk to know what was happening.
The poll of 1,000 adults found that 54 per cent of women believe rape victims should be held accountable for their attack.
Women were more likely than men to blame victims, with those aged between 18 and 24 the most likely to judge.
Twenty-four per cent of this age group said wearing a short skirt, accepting a drink or having a conversation with the rapist made victims partly responsible.
Nearly a fifth of women thought the victim was at fault if she went back to the attacker's house, while more than a tenth (13 per cent) said someone who had been dancing in a provocative way or flirting should be prepared for the consequences.
The Wake Up To Rape report also found that 14 per cent of women believe most rape claims are made up.
Campaigners called for more education in schools about sexual violence.
Elizabeth Harrison, manager of the Whitechapel Haven, one of three Havens centres in London that help victims of sexual assault, was one of those who conducted the study. She said: 'Women look at court cases and think she was drunk, she wore a short skirt, I don't do that so it won't happen to me.
'But rape can happen to anyone in any circumstances.
'It's particularly worrying that younger women are more likely to hold people responsible for what happens to them.
'The 18-24 age group were more likely to say that engaging in conversation in a bar or accepting a drink makes them partially responsible.
'But it is this age group that are more likely to be going out doing that. We need to get the message out in schools that rape is never your fault.'
The poll also revealed that one in five women wouldn't report a rape to the police, with half of these saying they would be too ashamed or embarrassed. A quarter said they would remain silent if they felt they had led the person on.
The prospect of having to go to court would deter 42 per cent of women from reporting the offence to police, the poll found.
Despite repeated Government promises to bring more sex attackers to justice, Britain has the lowest conviction rate in Europe.
Recent figures indicate that only one in 14 rapes reported to the police ends in a conviction.
Detective Chief Inspector Mark Yexley, from the Metropolitan Police, said: 'Although the majority of women surveyed said they would contact the police, we understand that not everyone will feel comfortable approaching us in the first instance.
'The Havens offers invaluable help and support for people who may otherwise try to cope with the immediate effects of rape and sexual assault alone.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251040/Rape-Its-fault-victims-s...
LOL, I know Olive, but let's just say this article seems a little contrived. I know enough Brits, and they definitely wouldn't agree with the above.
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Sorry, but from your post I got it that you were trying to highlight dating sites & porn as things that cause rape. Which is not the case.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Olive, Iam not talking about rape, crime or punishments. I am just highlighting social ethics and human responsibility..
LOL. Sorry Snessy but the article is from the UK. :)
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
blablabla, my country has it's fair share of rapes too, but the difference is the attitude towards rape! In the UK we don't blame women.
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Rape isn't about lust, it's about power & opportunity. That's why men rape 80 year old women. It's not cause they think they're dead sexy and simply HAVE to have them, it's because they enjoy the feeling of hurting and belittling someone.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
and will encourage u to do so.
PS: i'm living a single life, watching a lot of this kind of stuff, but neither i tried, nor i fantasize these kind of activities :P
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
So that gives permission for men to rape women? I see violence on TV and in video games does that give me the right to kill you?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
like girl asking to view web cam is supported by companies for commercial reasons and they want only money, they are also ready to bring your mum or sister, even their mum or sister.
Money shuts the hearts but not the eyes.
Now let's give a different dimension to this debate. I think there is no doubt that most of the rapes take place when lust overcomes ethics in men. Then the question arises: who is promoting this lust. No website is free of dating ads, even QL has some! You enter any chat you get pop ups from girls inviting you to their nude cams,etc,etc. Now I ask the respected ladies here would you ask these men to practice restrain(Self control) or these dirty women to stop exploiting the lust for money? Why the west(or their women) have no problem with that?
Before criticising other cultures just look into your own, Snessy!!
for those people
This question was asked
In the Shari`ah, is there a certain punishment for a rapist?
Dear questioner, thanks for your question, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His sake.
Islamically speaking, the raped woman is not guilty of any sin because she was forced to it beyond her control. Stressing this, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, “Allah has forgiven my Ummah for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do.” Thus, the raped woman is a victim and all members of her community should deal with her with honor and kindness and should encourage her to obtain her rights through all possible means.
In an attempt to furnish you with an answer to your question, we would like to cite for you the following fatwa issued by Dr. Ahmad Yusuf Sulaiman, professor of law and Islamic Shari`ah at Cairo University:
If a woman is raped, she should press charges against the one who raped her. If it is proved that she was raped, then the court must apply discretionary punishment or ta`zir on the rapist. Such discretionary punishment may reach the death penalty, according to some schools of thought. This is based wholly on the fact that the rape is confirmed through medical tests and court procedures, without the confession of the rapist himself.
In cases where the rapist confesses the crime, then the penalty for zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) is to be applied to him. If he is not married, then he is to be whipped 100 lashes. If he is married, then he is to be stoned to death.
As for the rape victim, no punishment is to be inflicted on her. She is to be treated with dignity and honor, and all forms of help should be given to her to gain her rights.
Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar&cid=1122819225850#ixzz0fmHrfjco
I'm not defending anyone. I simply stated I don't believe in capital punishment.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
lol
and u know the reason, why i do like to do it :P
if u re read the thread, now the "Olive" has been double minded and started defending rapist.
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
Dot.com I must say you are an expert at arguing for just the sake of arguing :P
"Live with passion, Die with style"
You can think that all you like. There's nothing you can say to me that will make me think killing someone is a viable punishment.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
for a person, who committed rape.
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
That's punishment. And a much more deserving one, where you have time to think about your crime, then simply being killed and not having to pay for it at all.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
isolating a person from a society is barbaric.
imagine urself, putted in a cell, with no freely interaction with the society and ur family.
How will u feel urself???
isn't that an act of barbarism???
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
What's barbaric about life in prison? The person has proven that they can't interact with society, therefore they must be kept from it. Prison is the best way we've found of doing that so far.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
then nobody should have to get life in prison. its barbaric.
and i do have sympathy for the family of the rapist. :P
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
I don't have sympathy for them. I have sympathy for the executioners & the family of the rapist. Nobody should have to kill someone as a job. It's barbaric.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
a depressed person.
why much care for rapist???
why sympathy for them???
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
That would require Saudi to actually do proper reports, which they don't.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
with any civilized and developed country???
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
It's been proven time and again that capital punishment doesn't work as a way to stop major crime. Look at the stat's and the research from all countries with capital punishment.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
u don't even want to "Nip the evil in the bud" :P
How could the upcoming rapist will get any lesson??
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
I don't believe in capital punishment Dot.Com. I believe rapists should get life in prison.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
i don't care, wat ever u have the intention for posting this thread, but will u plzzz
end this thread that a rapist should be punished as per Islamic law (though lashing or stoning a person is considered as barbarism to most of the ppl in west) or
do u've better solution then that???
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
...and their lack of self control!
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Remember that if you do this then a similar thing may happen to the closest person to you either your sister or girl friend, ..etc.
If the man is surrounded by good friends then the good friends will stop him from doing this act and will tell him the dangerous of doing such an act.
So the good friend play a very important rule but not the full rule.
Also the parents good guidance at an early age has a big effect, but in reality some times the parents can be very good but their sons will grow up badly and will doing such an act.
The man who think that he can take any thing by force must remember that there is some one greater than him who will take care of the victims who ever they are.
If these men who rape women knows that there is some one greater than them who will take care of the victims and take the revange for victims, these men who rape women might stop this act if they really have sense.
The root cause is men who think they can get away with it.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
wow, in shock...
of course is not the lady's fault, how old are we, 5???
i think the guy is or should be smart enough to think twice before raping a girl.
it's just mean.
=/
*-*-*Life is too short to be taken seriously*-*-*
Let us put the root cause for the women rape problem and how it can be stopped.
Let us put the root cause for the women rape problem and how it can be stopped.
Excuse me, sa, but it is not only western women who are victim of henious rape. Fully clad indian women are also rape victims.
haaash...now why I started banging my head against a stone.....
Everything's gonna be alright!!!
Straight Arrow in your scenario Woman A & Woman B, it doesn't matter what they're wearing but how easy he can attack them. If woman B is walking to her car alone, then he will go for woman B. Also if Woman B is wearing a long skirt or shirt that he can easily grab hold of then he will go for her over woman A, who's dress might be too tight for him to get off easily. With these men it's not about what the woman is wearing but how easily he can rape her.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
I agree the dress of the should not be an excuse to let the woman be raped but imagine the following:
Woman 1: Wearing seductive dress
Woman 2: Wearing normal descent dress as many western women.
Now which will attract the man more?
Of course it is woman 1
We are the ones who are responsible for our acts.
I strongly agree that a woman can avoid being raped by doing many things, but at the same time we can make all the bad men good men right?
I would like to say that this debate or this thread never high lighted the reasons why would some men rape some women and how can rape be stopped?
I will say that the parents advice to these men who rape women did not teach them at an early age.
Guys list the reasons, other wise there is no benefit at all from this thread.
This is all due to dressing...
Maybe if there was no clothes then there would be no rape....lol
Maybe thats how it was in the prehistoric days...rape free ..
Of course women should be responsible for their own safety. Everyone should be. But just like nobody ever gives the right to someone to murder him, no matter what they do, no matter what a woman wears or does gives someone the right to rape her.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Well, Olive I don't have any sympathy for the rapist. I do recommend the same punishment irrespective of what the victim wears. I am just talking about her responsibility in her own safety...
Different countries, different attitudes, just glad I'm not from theirs...
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
I think it's easier to teach a gorilla sign language Snessy than it is to teach some men to respect women.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
LOL Olive, I feel the pain you must be suffering banging your head against that brick wall :-)
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
LOL. My responsibility is to keep myself safe as best I can, but if a man is going to rape a woman he's going to do so regardless of what she's wearing. And regardless of what she's wearing he should be punished. There's NO excuse for a man to commit rape, no matter how many loopholes you boys look for. IF you can't control yourself around women unless they're wearing a sack then that's YOUR issue, not women's. You should be the one forced to stay inside.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Hmmm... you don't want to accept your responsibility! ok. Don't worry, society does give you protection in its limits...Olive.
Wasn't aware a mini skirt wasn't clothes :P Just because a woman doesn't wear a burlap sack for clothing doesn't mean she's asking to be raped. There's this little word called NO that we humans have developed after all.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
blablabla, you have a very fitting QL ID/username.
You sound so stupid on this Olive. Thats what I meant. Just behave like human beings not animals. Don't you know Humans wear cloths and animals don't..I am sorry...
Sad truth, we live in a male dominated society. The women activists are more bothered about silly issues than important stuff like this.
Oh yes blablablah how DARE we ask men to control their urges and act like human beings instead of animals! :P And this from a person who think we didn't come from apes. Hypocrit much?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
So whether society is open or closed, advanced or not some things never change...
I know several Whyteknight. Same situation though, the girl usually kept her mouth shut and blamed herself and the guy got away scot free to do it again.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
The ultra modern Indian city of Chandigarh surprisingly enough..
**** Aal Izz Well****
I don't know why people have issues with starightarrow, atleast in this matter. You people fail to understand simple truth of the nature that it created lust in men just to encourage them for an act which leads to procreation. Some men misuse it against agreed norms. To demand men to become senseless will be against nature and harmful to humanity. Hence it is good for humans in general and women in particular that women cover up and open it up only when needed to protect the senses of men. The problem with women is that they want to cash on the lust of men without themselves getting any harm. They want them to watch them the way they like and pay for it but don't touch. It needs realisation.
6 months continously ? Damn !! :(
which puking city is tat ?
Anyone of you know a rape victim personally.. I know a girl who was raped continuously for 6 months or so.. When the news came out, she had to leave the city as she was getting the blame while the accused lived in the same place very freely..
**** Aal Izz Well****
Deepb I know, but it always has interesting articles to discuss. Here's an editorial from today's based on yesterday's article:
I was drunk, wearing a short skirt and agreed to go back to his house. Does that REALLY mean I deserved to be raped?
By Jenni Murray
Last updated at 2:00 AM on 16th February 2010
As a young woman - I was 19 and a university student - I did what, on reflection, was an extremely stupid thing. I went with a group of friends to the home of a much older man.
I was wearing what my mother described, disapprovingly, as an extended belt, but what to me was just a fashionable mini skirt. We'd been drinking in the pub and carried on drinking at the man's flat.
I was not used to alcohol, and I remember feeling grown up and flattered by his attentions, but hardly recall the friends drifting away and me suddenly being the last woman barely standing.
Jenni Murray was violently molested after going back to a man's house with a group of friends
Jenni Murray was violently molested after going back to a man's house with a group of friends (posed by models)
I sobered up pretty quickly when his intentions became apparent and he started violently molesting me. I firmly said: 'No', made it clear that I didn't want to sleep with him, and tried to leave.
But he was powerful and aggressive. He pushed me onto his bed, and punched me in the face. I was unable to fight him off. Later, when he finally fell asleep, I crept away and told no one what had happened.
When friends asked, I used the classic excuse employed by victims of domestic violence to explain my bruised face. I insisted I'd bumped into a door. Nobody questioned me further and I did not tell.
Anyone who asks if rape has an impact on your life has clearly never experienced it. Of course it does. It has a terrible effect on one's ability to trust - tragic when all my previous experience had been of the best of men. It took a long time not to be suspicious of a suitor's motives.
This was 1969, long before the crime of rape was placed onto the political agenda by the women's movement.
It didn't occur to me to report what had happened to the police because I didn't think anyone would believe me and I would have been too embarrassed to reveal what a vulnerable position I'd placed myself in. After all, hadn't I worn a short skirt, been drinking and willingly gone back to his house?
I suspected the police would treat me with little respect, as the documentary about Thames Valley police, A Complaint Of Rape, made by Roger Graef in 1982, later confirmed. He revealed that officers in those days were taught that 60 per cent of all rape claims were false.
I also knew the courts were less than sympathetic. Judges were obliged by law to tell juries that they should seek corroboration of the alleged crime as 'women and small children tend to lie about these matters'.
Corroboration is notoriously difficult to find in a crime where generally only two people are present and the question of consent relies on his word or hers.
Since then, there have been changes in police procedure and the law - the corroboration warning only went in 1994.
How dispiriting to find, then, in a survey carried out by the Haven Service for Rape Victims in London, that a significant number of people - and more women than men - believe that in some cases women have only themselves to blame if they are raped.
A third of those surveyed said the woman should take responsibility for what had happened if she was dressed provocatively or had gone back to a man's home for a drink. Seventy-one per cent of women, but only 57 per cent of men, said rape was her fault if she got into bed with the man.
Researchers believe it's these attitudes that may account for the low rate of conviction in cases of rape because juries may not be prepared to send a man to jail if they think he was led on.
So why are these ideas as prevalent now as when I was attacked some 40 years ago, when so much else about society has changed?
I always promised myself I would never turn into my mother, who would frequently say: 'Don't think you're going out in that', as the skirts in the Sixties got shorter. I believe we all have a right to wear whatever we choose, whether it's a mini skirt or a burka.
A third of those surveyed believe the woman should take responsibility for the rape if she had gone back to the man's home
Sadly, I'm not sure that the highly sexualised society in which we live offers young people much of a choice. Children are lured into 'sexy gear' before they're old enough to be trusted to take a bus on their own.
Amanda Platell, in this newspaper, wrote last week of a visit to a nightclub, where she reckoned she was the only woman in the place wearing underwear and where it was accepted that if a couple briefly left the building they'd gone for a 'fag and a sh**'.
I was talking to a teacher the other day who'd been shocked at a parents' evening to find a mother colluding in her daughter's ambition to become a pole dancer and I doubt you could look at the internet history of many young people without finding they'd been seeking pornography.
Is it a surprise that in such a society assumptions are made about a woman's availability?
I may, I'm afraid, have to concede that it's not a good idea to go out in the skimpiest of clothing, totter about in the kind of high heels in which you could never run to get out of trouble, get blind drunk and fall over in the street having first taken off your knickers - if you were wearing them in the first place.
Should the worst happen, you could hardly be surprised if a jury felt you had been guilty of a degree of contributory negligence and compromised your safety.
If I had a daughter I would be telling her to treat alcohol with respect; to listen to her instincts if she thinks a guy may be dodgy and be aware of the signals she may be giving out that may be read as a licence to take liberties. It's not an ideal world, but it is the real world.
I still, however, firmly believe that wearing a short skirt or getting drunk doesn't make a victim any less of a victim or a rapist any less of a rapist, and a young girl may still be at risk even after taking advice on board - part of being human is making silly mistakes, especially when you're young.
But at least by taking responsibility for the amount she drinks, and thinking before going to a man's house, a woman would be giving herself the best chance of being safe and, should the worst happen, convincing a jury she had done everything to protect herself.
Of course, persuading young women to act more responsibly won't solve everything. The brutal truth is that many men still have shockingly predatory attitudes.
According to the survey, one in three men didn't think it was rape if they made their partner have sex when they didn't want to. Thirteen per cent of men admitted having sex with a partner who was too drunk to know what was happening.
The late Sue Lees, Professor of Women's Studies at the University of North London and author of Carnal Knowledge: Rape On Trial, spent a large part of her adult life researching attitudes to rape.
She found that false reports of rape are relatively rare and on a par with false reporting of any other crime.
She discovered that only a small number of the rapes women claim to have suffered are reported to the police and that, of those, only four-fifths go to trial because the Crown Prosecution Service tends only to pursue cases where the evidence is good.
A significant number of people believe in some cases women have only themselves to blame if they are raped
A significant number of people believe in some cases women have only themselves to blame if they are raped (posed by model)
What was particularly fascinatingwas that she found, sitting in the Old Bailey day after day, that the same man appeared in the dock on a number of occasions. He would appear clean and smartly dressed, every inch the respectable chap next door.
The women would seem cold and distant, giving evidence without tears or hysterics, no matter how brutal or intrusive the defence lawyer's approach; a demeanour psychologists say is typical of someone who has been traumatised and is telling their story months after the incident.
He would always be acquitted, arguing he had met the woman in a bar, been invited home and the sex was consensual.
Professor Lees realised that this man was a serial rapist, similar to the much-trusted London black cab driver, John Worboys, who, when the police finally pieced together a number of women's complaints, was found guilty last year of raping or sexually assaulting 12 of his passengers.
Some prominent feminists have argued that rape is not the worst thing that can happen to you. It's something I tried to tell myself.
It's not true. Rape is not a bit of fun that went too far. It is a terrifying crime of violence. It's used as a weapon in war to destroy communities. It's employed by men who want only to harm and demean the person they are with.
It threatens whatever sense of security and autonomy you believed you had. It can cause profound physical and emotional damage, pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection.
And in the end, blaming women for being violently assaulted and abused is just plain wrong.
It is the man who makes the choice to commit the crime because he chooses to ignore the veracity of that old saying: 'When a woman says no, she means no.'
And that's true, even if her clothes are saying the opposite.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1251364/JENNI-MURRAY-I-drunk-wearing-short-skirt-agreed-to-house-Does-REALLY-mean-I-deserved-raped.html#ixzz0ffxe2Gu5
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Interesting
Oh I just noticed your article is from the daily mail.... Not the most reliable source of information there Olive. They have a "wonderful" reputation when it comes to sensationalism and inaccurate reporting.
Well judging from this I would say most woman don't agree that the woman is to blame for the attack. I can't imagine ever blaming the woman. I agree though, it does seem like women are our own worse enemies.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
I was so distracted by Straight Arrow's nonsense, I forgot to air my opinion on the subject which is sometimes I wonder, are we (women) our own worst enemy?
To quote the article "Half of women think that rape victims are to blame for their attack, a study has shown."
Abu, yes there are men like that, and women should be taught to protect themselves and use some common sense, however the issue is about who's at fault. The type of man you're describing is going to find ANY excuse to say the girl was asking for it, and just because she was wearing a mini skirt doesn't mean he should get a lighter sentence from the judge.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Only one comment from me on this matter. Whoever believes rape is evenly remotely a women's fault, I hope none of your friends or family have to meet this horrible fate. I'll leave this thread at that.
It did happen a lot in history......
A man is a human being as well as the woman, the human is a mixture of feelings, these feelings get activated when there is certain thing to activate them.
So if a man see a lady wearing attractive thing or exposing her self, there are two possibilities either the man will wait for a chance to rape her (bad man will do this) or just hold his feelings and do nothing to her (good man probably).
I am sure if these guys who rape the woman know that this might happen to their mother or sister they will never do it if the the concious of these guys is alive but if it is did then these guys will not care.
Straight arrow i guess you think that this is the womans fault for drinking then???
A BRITISH rape victim back home after a four-week nightmare in Dubai said last night: "My life's in ruins."
The petite 23-year-old was arrested after going to cops with her concerned fiance to report the sex attack.
But instead of listening sympathetically, laughing male cops TAUNTED her before THROWING them both in jail for two days.
She was not allowed to leave Dubai until she signed papers to say the rape had never happened.
In return, charges of having illegal sex with her fiance and drinking without a permit - which could have led to six years' jail - were dropped.
Now, back home four weeks later, she has SPLIT from her fiance because of all the stress and is awaiting HIV test results.
She said: "It's been hell. I'm trying to rebuild my life one day at a time."
Humiliated
The Muslim, a Londoner of Pakistani background, and her rich boyfriend, 44, flew out for their romantic break on New Year's Eve.
He proposed at five-star hotel The Address and when his thrilled girlfriend, who rarely drinks, said 'yes' they celebrated with two bottles of champagne.
Sozzled, she passed out on a sofa in the loos and later could only recall being followed inside by a waiter.
Next day, after examining herself, she realised she'd been raped.
She and her lover, who had NEVER had unprotected sex together, called cops.
She said: "I was taken into a room at the station with about five police officers, all men.
"I'd just told them I had been raped but they were asking me how many times I had sex in the hotel room with my boyfriend and what positions I preferred.
"They were sniggering. I was crying. I felt utterly humiliated. I was treated like a criminal, like filth."
She was slung into a women's prison late on New Year's Day without knowing why. They kept her in a filthy basement with 100 others. It had one loo.
Fearing pregnancy, she begged for the morning-after pill but was told it is illegal.
She was released shortly before her British boyfriend of Indian background and with whom she had a Muslim wedding last November.
They were barred from leaving Dubai and moved into another hotel where she barely left her room.
Four weeks later police offered to drop charges if she dropped the rape claim.
She said: "I was scared. I obviously still believe I was raped but the only way out was to sign something saying I wasn't, so I did it."
During the wait, she kept pills in her bag for a suicide attempt in case she was sent back to jail.
The Dubai authorities said the case was investigated fully and insisted it "didn't happen".
But the couple, back on Sunday, have now split.
The victim, who we are not naming, said: "We'd gone for a weekend break in the sun in Dubai because we were in love and it looked like paradise in brochures.
"It never occurred to us that, as an unmarried couple, we might end up in jail. It's all taken a terrible toll on my life."
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"They say football is not a matter of life or death - i can assure you its more serious than that" - Bill Shankly
"Wear like Arab Women"
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
I don't care if your a prude or whatever my point still stands and your argument is still lame.....
Oryx....Very true indeed!!
women of same group are becoming soft target for their own soldiers, even this never happened in the history.
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
Did you not have history lessons at school?
Have you not heard of the Vikings? the Romans?
Any invading army has indulged in rape and pillage - that was seen as their payment....and still is in some places.
if throwing cloths, and getting nude / half nude / semi nude / topless, or wat ever u call it, are some thing, that help to be upto date, then sorry mate, i can't help u :P
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
No worries Oryx, I wouldn't mind living in a universe of care bears and my little ponies though :-)
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Oh of course not.....
its meant for Straight Arrow is so off target he hit a cuckoo in the tree!
Oryx, I totally agree with you (apart from the care bears bit), are you sure your last post is intended for me?
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Your arguments are based on thinkings of someone who is not quite 'up to date' as far as i'm concerned anyway...
Yes you can input what you want in here and your entitled to your own opinion......sometimes you should keep opinions in your own head though and i qoute...
"we never heard a story of dark age, that a woman raped bcoz of topless :P"
Really is this an informative and well thought out argument, or is it utter crap?? I would say the latter...
You live in a universe of care bears and my little ponies.
Talk to an Ob-Gy doctor at Hamad and they will tell you that they get female children who have been raped by family - now where does that fit in to your little scheme?
Its cold in Europe we don't walk around naked.
What you wear/your age/your looks doesn't necessarily determine whether you will be raped or not.
That is a high incidence of male on male rape here.... women aren't always the victims
Although it is wrong to blame the victim - prevention is better than cure.... can't really cure rape can you?
Women should be prudent - just common sense to take care of yourself.
Mary Beth Kineston, who drove lorries in Iraq and survived a bloody ambush, has alleged that she was sacked after complaining of sexual assaults by several fellow workers.
"At least if you got in trouble on a convoy, you could radio the army and they would come and help you out. But when I complained to KBR, they didn't do anything. I still have nightmares. They changed my life forever, and they got away with it," she told the New York Times last year.
Linda Lindsey, who worked for KBR in Iraq for three years, has said that male supervisors regularly offered promotions and other benefits in exchange for sex. Lindsey said she filed complaints but they that were never acted on.Last month Jones won a court ruling against Halliburton and KBR that the arbitration clause in her contract did not prevent them from being sued. But the legal battle to get the case even heard is far from over. "Four years to fight to get in court is not a day in court," she said.
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
I won't die wondering, that's for sure... I will ask as nicely as I can :P
**** Aal Izz Well****
It's never the woman's fault. If you spent half the time TRYING to think sensibly as you do writing gibberish, you might actually get somewhere - though I wont hold my breath.
LOL WK, you can ask them nicely, you never know, they may indulge in your madness!
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
Snessy they don't :(
And I was thinking about moving to London for precisely that reason...
**** Aal Izz Well****
Blimey SA! I never said women should walk around naked. I am simply saying, a man should NOT rape a woman no matter how she is dressed. I seriously think you should read people's posts more carefully before commenting on them.
One more thing, I couldn't give two hoots what you've seen on TV, but believe it or not, us women from the UK do NOT walk around naked!
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
'someone who had been dancing in a provocative way or flirting should be prepared for the consequences'...
man, this is medieval.
Nothing you say is anywhere near correct on this matter and your opinion means nothing to me at present......
DotCom your response is from the dark ages thats the point....
Being from the Uk has nothing to do with respecting womans rights it should be global, but it appears some people in Qatar has a long way to go still..
Shame really...
we never heard a story of dark age, that a woman raped bcoz of topless :P
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
There is so much wrong with that line of thinking Straight Arrow I don't even know where to begin.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
@ Snessy: I agree with you, as I pointed out in the very beginning of this thread.
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough...
woman walking naked (In Europe there are the naked people gardens and this was brought by National Geography TV or discovery channel), but not here in Qatar.
Why I say That could be allowed in country snessy?
Because you are from UK and for sure your opinion snessy does not represent the whole UK people opinion.
Let us put as follow:
Women wearing seductive dress = money
Bad guy who rapes women = theif
Rape = stealing
If the Money is infront of the theif, will the theif steal the money?
100 % yes.
I will correct what I said before, if a woman is raped then this due because of many reasons as I said before:
1. Boy or girl is present in Mixed parities.
2. Boy or girl drinking too much alcohols untill brain is shut off.
3. Bad company of friends for both boys and girls.
4. Lack of advice from parents of the boy and the girl.
5. Seductive dress worn by girls.
6. Lack of knowledge, the girl speaks with boys she does not know too much, not just hi.
7. Bad boys presence.
8. Inviting people they do not know.
9. Girl walking in dangerous places and therefore rape is not necessary to happen only in parties or going out from night clubs.
Snessy you have hit the nail on the head. You are exactly right.
But unfortunately it seems that some people on here live in the dark ages still........
Well, when you call rape a crime then there is a criminal and a victim involved in the crime. And a crime free society is everyone's responsibility. We certainly lock the car to save it from being stolen. When you fear of a danger you get away from it. If you don't, you are partly responsible...
SA, not all the women who are raped have been to a bar, pub, nightclub, party, etc. or been drinking. This also happens to women walking home from work or school.
I really don't understand why there is a discussion on this topic, it does NOT matter what a woman wears! A woman should be allowed to walk down the street naked if she wants, but who gives the right to any man to rape her?? If a man can't keep it in his pants, how's that the woman's fault?
*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****
"So if I kill you, you're half responsible for that?"
Ha ha ha, Well said Olive.
Now explain your point in that too Mr. Straight Arrow.
So if I kill you, you're half responsible for that?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
drinking alcohol is applicable on both
Lack of advice from parents is applicable for both
Bad company is applicable for both
and many othe points is applicable for both.
So here is my final answer both men and women are
responsible for any thing bad that happens in parties or bars.
Men are one half and women are the other half.
In Arabic there is a poem written which says or means:
The mother is a school if you maintained it well you will have a healthy generation.
Actually from that break down you're putting 105% of the blame on the woman and only 5% of the blame on the man SA.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
turns anyone to uncivilized person, why should fun only if there is drinking of alcohols?
The UK girls who dress seductively are attracting a type of men who could be bad or no.
So based on that yes the woman plays a rule when she is raped because she is the one who goes to these partieis and bars but this 10 % only.
Here is my philosophy, rape of woman is taking place because of different factors:
10 % because of Mixed parities.
25 % because of drinking alcohols.
25 % because of bad company of friends.
10 % because Lack of advice from her parents.
20 % because of seductive dress.
10 % because Lack of knowledge, the girl speaks with
boys she does not know too much, not just hi.
5 % because of Bad boys presence.
5 % because ofInviting people they do not know.
You continue to argue a point that does a woman play any part in the rape???? The only part she plays is being raped, This is against her will.
I am from the UK and girls in clubs dress seductivily and drink and have fun.....but being a civilized person it doesn't mean they deserve to be raped or attacked its their choice what they do as its my choice what i do.......
In England rapists and child molesters are looked upon as dirt on a shoe and most people would like to see them castrated or worse...
Apply this and we will see whose fault is it
self-restraint, anyone? this is why humans differ from animals. just because you saw a woman wearing skimpy clothing, you would want to rape her? c'mon!...
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"What they see and say about me does not define who I am in reality. What’s perceived is a mere surface, what’s said is mere opinion; for what’s inevitable is hidden within the depths of my soul. Only I can tell my own authenticity."
Ok maybe some of you disagree with me.
Please
Ok Does the woman play any part which will allow other to rape her?
If yes then how it can be stopped?
If no why?
No there is absolutely NOTHING that a woman can do that would give a man the right to rape her. Does anything give another person the right to rob or murder someone?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Yes, It is parents duty to guide a child.Be it a girl or a boy.When we restrict our girl child on dressing or whatever we have equal responsibility in guiding a boy child on what he should do and what he cannot.
Ok Does the woman play any part which will allow other to rape her?
If yes then how it can be stopped?
If no why?
Studies have actually shown that men are more likely to go after women wearing loose clothing, as it's easier to get off and grab hold of, they're least likely to go after women wearing tight jeans or pants.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
whatever the case maybe, once the woman is raped, she is the victim. I disagree that she too contributes the factor of the case.
She may wear anything she wants and move whatever she wants, but the case remains the same-rape and the culprit must pay.
What a survey..What about the kids then?Should we blame their innocence?
I agree that women need to be cautious but what has that got to do with Men's morality or morale?Why can't a man mind his own business even if a women is provocative?
Lame excuses and it is justifying cruelty and being inhuman.
Eaglemannual if a woman says NO and the man continues to have sex with her, it's rape. Regardless of what she was wearing or what her intentions are.
Yes there are women who cry rape when it didn't happen, those women are despicable. But my guess is that they didn't say No.
SA I wasn't aware that a woman could rape herself, so yes if a woman is raped by a man, it is the mans fault.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
then this means one thing only to me.
It means that Olive say men are bad and women are good.
Olive why you can not say that there are good men as well as good women and there are bad men as well as bad women.
There is always positive and negative and neutral.
when a girl or a lady wears an attractive dress she will bring attention to her and some men accordingly will think badly and may rape her.
We have to say that the dress is a very important factor, improper dress is like a flat tire which may end your life even if you are not drunk, a good tire will save your life but if you die even with a good tire then it is your destiny.
Now every one knows that the risk in mixed parties is higher the single sex parties.
So is not it better for the girl to go only to girls party.
Now if you are a father or a mother and you know that your daught (18-24 yrs for example) want to go the party what kind of advice would you give her?
Olive said It's the fault of the man. In no way will it ever be the fault of the woman, regardless of what she is wearing or what she was doing. "
There's a slight problem with this blanket statement. What about the women who are out to trap a guy? Not you or me, of course, but you have to admit that there are some who would.
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Beauty lies in the eyes of the beerholder.
Women at fault again. Are we just allowed to be prim and proper ALL the time and not have fun (depends on how you define it) just because we might provoke a man and lead them to rape us. oh well.. being a woman is SUCH a hard work 'coz men always finds fault in women that justifies their actions.
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.
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"What they see and say about me does not define who I am in reality. What’s perceived is a mere surface, what’s said is mere opinion; for what’s inevitable is hidden within the depths of my soul. Only I can tell my own authenticity."
Straight Arrow said No what I am trying to say ...
Is that the bad guy when ever has a chance of course he will rape the woman what ever she is wearing, and this is due to the bad mantality of this man..."
- Right. On one hand, it is a fundamental human right for women to be comfortable wearing whatever she likes. However, she should be alert/aware of her surroundings and discerning and learn to take care of herself or have someone watch out for her.
With regards to the sexily dressed women - sometimes they should ask themselves whether it's really dressing up for themselves as they claim, or to attract attention - because of the stage of life that they are in?
It should be remembered that shallow men are quite the norm. So, it also goes to "sifting the wheat from the chaff", so to speak.
In this regard, I actually think there is value in the culture where the ladies have really wonderful dresses under their abayas but only take off their abayas when in the company of family or other sisters only.
With regards to the polls - every bit of research can be qualified by a number of factors, eg. the sample size of participants, etc. Never believe what is written without thinking further.
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Beauty lies in the eyes of the beerholder.
May be they should re-define rape as " consequences faced by guilty females who wore provoking clothes resulting in innocent male/males to do what they actually do not desire"
May be this will make men happy ...phew...what a world we live in.
A woman can do whatever she wants with her body, her clothing and her surroundings if she is forced to have sex against her will it is rape and THE ONLY person to blame is the attacker.........that is all
The beauty will be blamed when she use her beauty wrongly.
Any medicine which is taken wrongly will cause a disaster.
What about alcohols do they play factor?
Of course yes because I think that most rape cases happen after going out of night clubs or parties.
Also the bad company of the girl is another factor because good friends will not allow their friend to be raped.
75 percent of polls are made up.
Wearing a topless,bottomless bikini and being drunk in the hands of a straight male is invitation enough for consensual or otherwise sex,if u know how it works for males,Blame-Woman
Uninvited,Unprovoked,rape,Blame-Man,Man,Man
You can be HOT or COLD to me, spare me LUKEWARM!!!!
frustated ppl will react in same way every where, doesn't matter ho much civilization they have got :-)
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
What I'm shocked about is that this poll came out of the UK. Here I would expect those kind of answers, but the UK?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
SA: I think I already answered your questions, if not directly. But in straight answer to your questions.
Can we blame the beauty of the lady? Of course we can't. If we did, wouldn't that be the same as blaming God for making her beautiful (for the believers)?
Second question. We can't protect women against rape - beautiful or not - but we CAN make sure that when a person rape's someone, the rapist is punished - HARD. Maybe that way we can deter other people from raping and so on and so forth. In other words, this just like any other crime in a developed society...
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough...
Stating that a woman has to dress correctly to avoid rape is ridiculous.
It is 2010 and woman in most countries of the world are classed as equal and rightly so. I find male attitudes in the Gulf towards woman unbeleivable really!
A woman should not be blamed if she is raped No means No and that is the final word really
neither one feel it, nor one react like a beast!
:P
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A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose! Dr. Choc
It's the fault of the man. In no way will it ever be the fault of the woman, regardless of what she is wearing or what she was doing.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Who is fault is it and why?
Also my above queestions to have the fruits from this debate.
Is that the bad guy when ever has a chance of course he will rape the woman what ever she is wearing, and this is due to the bad mantality of this man.
How ever the proper dress of the girl for sure protects her to some degree.
Can we blame the beauty of the lady?
If yes please explain why and how can we let the lady which has beauty stay protected from bad guys and at the same time let her enjoy with her friends?
I don't care if a lady wears a bottom less bikini to Biker bar, if she gets raped, it's still NOT her fault. If we are to say that "she had it coming" because of the way she dresses, isn't that like saying that men are neanderthal's, that can't control their "ding dong", when they see a bit of skin - and THAT'S OK.
Come on guys (and girls), I would hope we've evolved a bit further than that, as a species...
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough...
Actually I think SA was trying to say that properly dressed women are also raped. :-0 what a very UnIslamic view!
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
The sexy ex poser is at fault. But how abt the innocent 8 yr old on the way to school ?or the house wife who let in the Technician for repair?And lets not forget trusting daughters!!!CUT OUT THE RAPIST'S C---,AND LET HIM LIVE TO A 100!!!
You can be HOT or COLD to me, spare me LUKEWARM!!!!
Yea its always woman's fault....
SA are you trying to say...properly dressed women were never raped? what about those small girls.. aged 5 to 10 yrs?? is that their fault?? get real!
The woman of course when she expose her self in a sexy way by wearing what ever is sexy bring the attention of the guys, and accordingly a bad guy will try to rape her, but the good guy will never rape but will let her come close to him and strengthen the relation and then marry her if he has good intensions.
The alcohol is the most important factor because too much drinking will shut off the barain and when the brain is shut off the person can kill his/her mother, father, sister,...etc.
The lady who wears a descent dress when she goes to a disco or bar protects her self partially, because there are always bad guys who does not care on what the lady is wearing, he just want to rape.
Can we blame the beauty of the lady?
If yes please explain why and how can we let the lady which has beauty protected from bad guys and at the same time let her enjoy with her friends?
Because it's still a male dominated society.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
World over most of the time it is the lady who is found to be at fault for the rape... Why is that?
Ah ok, now I get you. :) Sorry haven't had enough coffee this morning.
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
Olive, even if a woman exposes herself to a certain degree, the rape is still a violation of her personal rights. Because it uses FORCE.
Not sure I get your point LP?
"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce
When was this poll made - 1000 B.C.??
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough...
A gun in your hand is very tempting. If you kill someone with it, it's the fault of the victim because he just passed by?? (He should have stayed at home).