"When Muhammad linked the name of Allah to the religious histories of Judaism and Christianity, this was a way to claim them for Islam. In the light of later events, the claim that Islam was the original religion, and that all preceding prophets were Muslims, can be regarded as an attempt to appropriate the histories of other religions for Islam. The effect is to rob Christianity and Judaism of their own histories."
Yes, that's true. Islam robbed Christianity and Judaism! Bravo!
as believers of Trinity. They are called Catholics, be specific about that. And most Protestant denominations including born-again Christians also believe like Catholics.
most important we believe in one God ... post something else and its a debate that lost till now for thousands of years :) i see too many religious, racical, racism posts!
Smoke you are seriously confused between the two religions. You got to study both christianity and Islam together to understand how similar they are.
The only difference being TRINITY. We as Muslims believe that GOD is one, there is no Son and No Holy spirit.
GOD cannot be attributed with relationships of any kind.
This is the only difference and if you day you deny this only concept of Trinity and except GOD as One and only with Muhammad being the last prophet, you will become a Muslim.
here is a fundamental difference between Christian attitudes to the Jewish scriptures and Islamic attitudes to the Bible. Christians accept the Hebrew scriptures. They were the scriptures of Jesus and the apostles. They were the scriptures of the early church. The whole of Christian belief and practice rests upon them. Core Christian concepts such as ‘Messiah’ (Greek ‘Christos’), ‘Spirit of God’, ‘Kingdom of God’ and ‘salvation’ are deeply rooted in the Hebrew Biblical traditions.
We note also that Christian seminaries devote considerable effort to studying the Hebrew scriptures. This is an integral part of training for Christian ministry. The Hebrew scriptures are read (in translation) every Sunday in many churches all around the world.
In contrast Islam’s treatment of the Bible is one of complete disregard. Although it purports to ‘verify’ all earlier prophetic revelation, the Qur’an is oblivious to the real contents of the Bible. The claim that Christians and Jews deliberately corrupted their scriptures is made without evidence, and this only serves to cover up the Qur’an’s historical inadequacies. Muslim scholars rarely have an informed understanding of the Bible or of biblical theology and so remain ignorant of these realities.
oh! so nothing interesting in here rather than religous posts? NTV? some random photos? dear be sure no one is going to change his religion because of that :) on the other hand for example one of the "subah" royal kuwait family has changed his religion last month to christianity ... so its about faith not about facts! u have no physical proof that God exists but you have enough faith to believe in him. and myself i can assure u that the shared info is wrong but thanks for the share anyway.
Christians are commanded not to believe that ‘Isa is the son of God: ‘It is far removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son’. (An-Nisa’ 4:171; Al-Furqan 25:2) ‘Isa was simply a created human being, and a slave of Allah. (An-Nisa’ 4:172; Âl 'Imran 3:59)
Christians are claimed by the Qur’an to believe in a family of gods — Father God, mother Mary and ‘Isa the son — but ‘Isa rejected this teaching. (Al-Ma’idah 5:116) The doctrine of the Trinity is disbelief and a painful doom awaits those who believe it. (Al-Ma’idah 5:73)
Jesus’ true name, according to the Qur’an, was ‘Isa. His message was pure Islam, surrender to Allah. (Âl 'Imran 3:84) Like all the Muslim prophets before him, and like Muhammad after him, ‘Isa was a lawgiver, and Christians should submit to his law. (Âl 'Imran 3:50; Al-Ma’idah 5:48) ‘Isa’s original disciples were also true Muslims, for they said ‘We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered. We are Muslims.’ (Al-Ma’idah 5:111)
Many prophets of the past received the one religion of Islam. (Ash-Shura 42:13) Who were these previous prophets? According to Al-An’am 6:85-87 they include Ibrahim (Abraham), ‘Ishaq (Issac), Yaqub (Jacob), Nuh (Noah), Dawud (David), Sulaiman (Solomon), Ayyub (Job), Yusuf (Joseph), Musa (Moses), Harun (Aaron), Zakariyya (Zachariah), Yahya (John the Baptist), ‘Isa (Jesus), Ilyas, Ishmael, Al-Yash’a (Elisha), Yunus (Jonah) and Lut (Lot).
I dont say Muhammad said Jesus's messages were false, i say "Muslims" believe we are following the wrong faith which in basis we are praying to the same god but through a different Prophet. Not necessary both religions have to believe in the same thing even though their roots are from Adam to Muhammad.
And I don't dig these topics in the main forum myself but to answer your quest:
As Muslims we believe in ALL the prophets from Adam to Muhammad(Peace be upon them all) and we believe they all came with the same and true message. IE to worship only one God,abandon the worship of idols, to do righteous deeds and avoid all acts of evil,arrogance and oppression. However we also believe that as time went by the true teachings of each Prophet was distorted and hence Allah kept sending messengers after messengers, reinforcing the original message of the Prophets before them.
So no we don't believe that Muhammad claimed Jesus's message was false, rather we believe he preached to his followers the same original message.And so we believe that God actually wished to remove our misguidance, doubts and confusions by sending down different Prophets, and not cause any!
Bare in mind we to believe in Jesus, Isa(Peace be upon him) to be our Prophet, and the one who will be sent back down to earth to slay the anti Christ and save us from his evil trials. We believe in practically everything you believe except in the trinity, and that Jesus was crucified.
And finally, as for the Quran and Islam, we believe it to be the last and final religion sent by God. Again reinforcing the message of all those previous scripture.
Please don't be offended anyone by what I wrote. I only replied Smoke's question. Beyond that I believe to each his own, and we all need to respect another's faith. And it is not for us to judge who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. It's only for God alone to decide our final abode. And I hope and pray He guides each and everyone of us to the path leading up to Paradise including Smoke, BG and of course..Me! Peace!
its the same confusion i get watching soap and shampoo commercial, they all claim and promise the same things, spend so much in commercials and packaging, yet nothing really works perfectly as in their TV commercials, hahaha.
Ok then we are all good and this world problem of Muslims Vs Christians has finally come to an end coz Baburao has spoken! The mystery has been solved. Thanks Monkey.
Yes monkey i know that, just like we call Peter - Pedro and John - Jao.
Fact of the matter is each prophet had their own followers and eventually turned into a Religion to follow. If God remains the same then it does not matter what name you give the religion and any non Muslim is still gonna go to HEAVEN if Muslims believe it or not lol
Ramil I didnt mean to degrade any person or their belief, its just a question that popped into my head, why would Allah want to make people so confused?
You have all these prophets around you saying so many things and telling u this and that and each one has their own teachings. And we mere humans go around preaching like we know EVERYTHING that goes on in the mind of God lol.
hahaha! smoke, dont get confused. I as a christian, at least do not stop or degrade other people from believing with other group/faith or changing religion. wherever one finds his peace and with whoever a man awakens spiritually and starts living as a human being with HEART AND SOUL, surely that should never be frowned upon. For that's what God intended us to be, a man treating each other with love and respect. Its when men acts otherwise that shows what kind of religion/group they belong.
The writing is NOT Aramaic of the 1st century! (You can compare the text with the Qumran rolls and you'll see the difference!) It can only be a much later forgery!
U see i usually dont like posting on religious topics so this is going to be my last post on this, but here's one thing i dont understand.
So the muslims believe in Jesus, the Christians believe in Jesus and his teachings and we follow Jesus and we pray to him for his blessings just like muslims offer praises and prayers to Muhammad.
Now both (Muslims/Christians) teachings say we have but one God...and both Jesus/Muhammad were prophets... however Jesus came before Muhammad hence we have Christians...then Muhammad comes and suddenly whatever any of the the Christians believe is false and Islam is now the one true religion.
I mean come on if Allah sent both "Prophets" Does Allah expect people to convert to every other religion according to the prophets??
“N Profeet sal ek vir hulle verwek uit die midde van hulle broers, soos jy is, en ek sal my woorde in sy mond le, en hy sy sal aan hulle se alle wat ekhom beveel.” (Deut 18:18)
The English translation reads as follows:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” (Deut 18:18)
(John 1:25).
The Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies: a. the coming of Christ. b. the coming of Elias, and c. the coming of that Prophet.
(the Holy Quran 3:64)“Say: ‘O People of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah (God); that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than Allah (God)’. If then they turn back, say: ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (Bowing to God’s Will).’ ”
I wonder how much a copy of 'The Life of Brian' will fetch in 1,500 years? penned in John Cleese's native English language, is said to contain his early teachings and a prediction of profits coming.
New ways to make money eh TB. Seeing the value of the book and its importance, getting your hands on it is not going to be that easy. However I know what you mean...and knowing the way people's minds work it wont be long before we see "copies" of the pages being sold on the market.
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"When Muhammad linked the name of Allah to the religious histories of Judaism and Christianity, this was a way to claim them for Islam. In the light of later events, the claim that Islam was the original religion, and that all preceding prophets were Muslims, can be regarded as an attempt to appropriate the histories of other religions for Islam. The effect is to rob Christianity and Judaism of their own histories."
Yes, that's true. Islam robbed Christianity and Judaism! Bravo!
as believers of Trinity. They are called Catholics, be specific about that. And most Protestant denominations including born-again Christians also believe like Catholics.
Indonesia is a muslim county too do they follow modern slavery
Tats the best move MODS !
now accordingly seize this thread before it gets worse !
most important we believe in one God ... post something else and its a debate that lost till now for thousands of years :) i see too many religious, racical, racism posts!
@FathimaH....what about meeeeeeeeeee :P
Fatimah nailed it.
Smoke you are seriously confused between the two religions. You got to study both christianity and Islam together to understand how similar they are.
The only difference being TRINITY. We as Muslims believe that GOD is one, there is no Son and No Holy spirit.
GOD cannot be attributed with relationships of any kind.
This is the only difference and if you day you deny this only concept of Trinity and except GOD as One and only with Muhammad being the last prophet, you will become a Muslim.
No Offence !!
here is a fundamental difference between Christian attitudes to the Jewish scriptures and Islamic attitudes to the Bible. Christians accept the Hebrew scriptures. They were the scriptures of Jesus and the apostles. They were the scriptures of the early church. The whole of Christian belief and practice rests upon them. Core Christian concepts such as ‘Messiah’ (Greek ‘Christos’), ‘Spirit of God’, ‘Kingdom of God’ and ‘salvation’ are deeply rooted in the Hebrew Biblical traditions.
We note also that Christian seminaries devote considerable effort to studying the Hebrew scriptures. This is an integral part of training for Christian ministry. The Hebrew scriptures are read (in translation) every Sunday in many churches all around the world.
In contrast Islam’s treatment of the Bible is one of complete disregard. Although it purports to ‘verify’ all earlier prophetic revelation, the Qur’an is oblivious to the real contents of the Bible. The claim that Christians and Jews deliberately corrupted their scriptures is made without evidence, and this only serves to cover up the Qur’an’s historical inadequacies. Muslim scholars rarely have an informed understanding of the Bible or of biblical theology and so remain ignorant of these realities.
"a slave of Allah."
No wonder that they still practice 'Modern Slavery' in the Gulf!
oh! so nothing interesting in here rather than religous posts? NTV? some random photos? dear be sure no one is going to change his religion because of that :) on the other hand for example one of the "subah" royal kuwait family has changed his religion last month to christianity ... so its about faith not about facts! u have no physical proof that God exists but you have enough faith to believe in him. and myself i can assure u that the shared info is wrong but thanks for the share anyway.
Christians are commanded not to believe that ‘Isa is the son of God: ‘It is far removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son’. (An-Nisa’ 4:171; Al-Furqan 25:2) ‘Isa was simply a created human being, and a slave of Allah. (An-Nisa’ 4:172; Âl 'Imran 3:59)
Christians are claimed by the Qur’an to believe in a family of gods — Father God, mother Mary and ‘Isa the son — but ‘Isa rejected this teaching. (Al-Ma’idah 5:116) The doctrine of the Trinity is disbelief and a painful doom awaits those who believe it. (Al-Ma’idah 5:73)
The ones you've mentioned were all JEWS!
?
Isa PBHM, was a prophet of Islam
Jesus’ true name, according to the Qur’an, was ‘Isa. His message was pure Islam, surrender to Allah. (Âl 'Imran 3:84) Like all the Muslim prophets before him, and like Muhammad after him, ‘Isa was a lawgiver, and Christians should submit to his law. (Âl 'Imran 3:50; Al-Ma’idah 5:48) ‘Isa’s original disciples were also true Muslims, for they said ‘We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered. We are Muslims.’ (Al-Ma’idah 5:111)
The Biblical prophets were all Muslims
Many prophets of the past received the one religion of Islam. (Ash-Shura 42:13) Who were these previous prophets? According to Al-An’am 6:85-87 they include Ibrahim (Abraham), ‘Ishaq (Issac), Yaqub (Jacob), Nuh (Noah), Dawud (David), Sulaiman (Solomon), Ayyub (Job), Yusuf (Joseph), Musa (Moses), Harun (Aaron), Zakariyya (Zachariah), Yahya (John the Baptist), ‘Isa (Jesus), Ilyas, Ishmael, Al-Yash’a (Elisha), Yunus (Jonah) and Lut (Lot).
I dont say Muhammad said Jesus's messages were false, i say "Muslims" believe we are following the wrong faith which in basis we are praying to the same god but through a different Prophet. Not necessary both religions have to believe in the same thing even though their roots are from Adam to Muhammad.
And I don't dig these topics in the main forum myself but to answer your quest:
As Muslims we believe in ALL the prophets from Adam to Muhammad(Peace be upon them all) and we believe they all came with the same and true message. IE to worship only one God,abandon the worship of idols, to do righteous deeds and avoid all acts of evil,arrogance and oppression. However we also believe that as time went by the true teachings of each Prophet was distorted and hence Allah kept sending messengers after messengers, reinforcing the original message of the Prophets before them.
So no we don't believe that Muhammad claimed Jesus's message was false, rather we believe he preached to his followers the same original message.And so we believe that God actually wished to remove our misguidance, doubts and confusions by sending down different Prophets, and not cause any!
Bare in mind we to believe in Jesus, Isa(Peace be upon him) to be our Prophet, and the one who will be sent back down to earth to slay the anti Christ and save us from his evil trials. We believe in practically everything you believe except in the trinity, and that Jesus was crucified.
And finally, as for the Quran and Islam, we believe it to be the last and final religion sent by God. Again reinforcing the message of all those previous scripture.
Please don't be offended anyone by what I wrote. I only replied Smoke's question. Beyond that I believe to each his own, and we all need to respect another's faith. And it is not for us to judge who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. It's only for God alone to decide our final abode. And I hope and pray He guides each and everyone of us to the path leading up to Paradise including Smoke, BG and of course..Me! Peace!
Hahaha
its the same confusion i get watching soap and shampoo commercial, they all claim and promise the same things, spend so much in commercials and packaging, yet nothing really works perfectly as in their TV commercials, hahaha.
LOL
welcome my wild cat
Ok then we are all good and this world problem of Muslims Vs Christians has finally come to an end coz Baburao has spoken! The mystery has been solved. Thanks Monkey.
smoke u got me wrong, im not saying you are degrading anybody, but i know what you mean, lol.....
smoke ur muslim too if u believe in ISA PBHM , he himself is a muslim then how can u be a non muslim
LOL this should have been in my last thread!! hah
Yes monkey i know that, just like we call Peter - Pedro and John - Jao.
Fact of the matter is each prophet had their own followers and eventually turned into a Religion to follow. If God remains the same then it does not matter what name you give the religion and any non Muslim is still gonna go to HEAVEN if Muslims believe it or not lol
smoke said I mean come on if Allah sent both "Prophets" Does Allah expect people to convert to every other religion according to the prophets??
Prophets r one and they r all Muslims . the Christians call ISA PBHM Jesus , Ibrahim PBHM as Abraham etc
Ramil I didnt mean to degrade any person or their belief, its just a question that popped into my head, why would Allah want to make people so confused?
You have all these prophets around you saying so many things and telling u this and that and each one has their own teachings. And we mere humans go around preaching like we know EVERYTHING that goes on in the mind of God lol.
Just............blah!
Snap!.... crackle & pop!
hahaha! smoke, dont get confused. I as a christian, at least do not stop or degrade other people from believing with other group/faith or changing religion. wherever one finds his peace and with whoever a man awakens spiritually and starts living as a human being with HEART AND SOUL, surely that should never be frowned upon. For that's what God intended us to be, a man treating each other with love and respect. Its when men acts otherwise that shows what kind of religion/group they belong.
The writing is NOT Aramaic of the 1st century! (You can compare the text with the Qumran rolls and you'll see the difference!) It can only be a much later forgery!
No i'm Roman Catholic :P
So are you atheist @smoke if you don't mind me asking??
U see i usually dont like posting on religious topics so this is going to be my last post on this, but here's one thing i dont understand.
So the muslims believe in Jesus, the Christians believe in Jesus and his teachings and we follow Jesus and we pray to him for his blessings just like muslims offer praises and prayers to Muhammad.
Now both (Muslims/Christians) teachings say we have but one God...and both Jesus/Muhammad were prophets... however Jesus came before Muhammad hence we have Christians...then Muhammad comes and suddenly whatever any of the the Christians believe is false and Islam is now the one true religion.
I mean come on if Allah sent both "Prophets" Does Allah expect people to convert to every other religion according to the prophets??
I was just waiting for all this to start myself!
And here we go with the religious stuff...
Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 18,
“N Profeet sal ek vir hulle verwek uit die midde van hulle broers, soos jy is, en ek sal my woorde in sy mond le, en hy sy sal aan hulle se alle wat ekhom beveel.” (Deut 18:18)
The English translation reads as follows:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” (Deut 18:18)
(John 1:25).
The Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies: a. the coming of Christ. b. the coming of Elias, and c. the coming of that Prophet.
(the Holy Quran 3:64)“Say: ‘O People of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah (God); that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than Allah (God)’. If then they turn back, say: ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (Bowing to God’s Will).’ ”
I wonder how much a copy of 'The Life of Brian' will fetch in 1,500 years? penned in John Cleese's native English language, is said to contain his early teachings and a prediction of profits coming.
New ways to make money eh TB. Seeing the value of the book and its importance, getting your hands on it is not going to be that easy. However I know what you mean...and knowing the way people's minds work it wont be long before we see "copies" of the pages being sold on the market.
I have this picture in my mind of someone with the photocopy standing in front of a copier with his finger on the number of copies button.
You get it attested!
"A photocopy of a single page from the handwritten ancient manuscript is thought to be worth £1.5million."
How do you know if the photocopy is an original?
TB you kaffir!! Cant you see its "written in GOLD" so it must be true!
Right...