We need a secular America
By Tigasin321 •
and not an America led by religious lunatics like Sarah Palin or George Bush.
Since Mrs Palin’s nomination as John McCain’s Republican running-mate 11 days ago, her social and religious beliefs have become subjected to intense scrutiny. As a supporter of the teaching of Creationism in schools, an opponent of abortion – even in cases of rape or incest – and a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, she threatens to reopen the culture war that has scarred American politics for a quarter of a century.
If Obama and Biden don't win this election I can't imagine ever living in the US again.
Your thoughts are as clear as the blue sky indeed...
PM, you are priceless ROFL! And oh so true...
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could hardly believe what I was reading here.
If you'll notice I am not hear argueing what religion is right and wrong!
Only defending my position when people try to claim something that is untrue! Or that I have said something false such as:
1.) islamic religious beliefs are similar to that of palins and mccains.
2.) MAJORITY of christians do not believe in the trinity. Which in fact only a very small minority like messianic jews, jehovah witnesses don't.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
but really it's just the voice of the silent majority who are too polite to point and giggle.
I know that you are a long time British citizen, growing up there n'all, but I remember you saying you visit Vietnam often - care to share any bonkers ideas that come from that part of the world? - hey, they may have it right all along.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
...and I'm talking about knowledge and reasoning not physical weight!
Adey & PM, it's good to see your comments!
:)
1000%!
I could retract the 'retarded' phrase and replace it with 'mis-guided'. But seeing that all you lot have the most massive cognitive dissonance I have ever seen, in the face of all cultural, scientific and philosophical evidence over the last 300 years or so, I will stick with 'retarded ' or it's kinder cousin - 'mentally ill'!
You have your opinions that you want to force on others, so now it's my turn - deal with it or be quiet.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
please note that this is not camouflaged but a direct attack on those of any religious persuasion - STOP TELLING PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE MIND OF A SUPERNATURAL, UNCONTACTABLE, UNPROVEABLE DICTATOR THAT SITS IN JUDGMENT OF US ALL IN ORDER TO SEND US TO ETERNAL TORTURE IF WE DON'T JUMP WHEN HE SAYS BOO!
You can believe some bronze age memetic brain-washing all you like - just don't try to make the rest of us as retarded as you lot!!!!
That in a nutshell is secularism. Long may we remain sane.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
My attempt was obviously successful considering that you reiterated the exact same thing I said all along and quoted concerning christian theology.
And that various christians spoke up without actually thinking, reading or knowing the MAJORITY of belief within their own faith.
Still waiting for scarlett to tell me her church so I can put her to shame as well. Call up the pastor and get a written document telling me exactly who they are, what they are upon and their beliefs relating to the trinity and jesus.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
He would make out that I clearly stated I do not agree with sex outside of marriage.
however sex with a persons husband whether it is on the beach or the back of a camel is clearly allowed!
Second of all you would have read the thread torque you may have noticed that I never said that I myself participated in such things.
Although I knew quite a few that did.
Oh yeah and the other thing that God might think (and these are just guesses) is that at one point I wasn't muslim and lived just as animalistic as the rest of the world! Was schooled by my enviroment at one point and still managed to take myself away from it and strive for the sake of Allah in my life!
Anyway it was quite clear that most of the uptight comments made by people who were against it is because they were not raised in a beach enviroment like southland and myself. And feel they can control their alcohol yet still manage to get drunk while writing posts on here showing how far it takes them from rational thinking.
Alcohol gets people drunk and away from rational thinking. Either you accept that fact and stop judging others for indulging or you accept the fact that alcohol is hard to control and should be stopped all together.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
....of your comments on another recent thread about sex on the beach in Cali...??!!
I have persisted in reading a lot of this thread which has got so seriously hijacked along the way, anyway I do actually agree with Tigasin's original topic
Torque
From an author who tries to keep an unbiased and open minded approach towards explaining christian views.
http://geneva.rutgers.edu/src/index.html
http://geneva.rutgers.edu/src/christianity/index.html
Charles Hedrick (the author of these essays) is, in no particular order
An elder in the Presbyterian Church (USA)
Moderator of the Usenet news group soc.religion.christian
University Director of Campus Computing Services and Chief Technical Officer at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey [provided for identification only; Rutgers University has no responsibility for the views presented here]
(I am not Charles W. Hedrick. He is a scholar who has become involved with the "secret Mark" problem. I've had a few people assume that I'm the same person.)
Christians developed two separate but related concepts: the Trinity and the Incarnation. The Incarnation looks at Jesus' relationship to God. There is a separate page about the incarnation . At this point, I'm simply going to quote two texts from the New Testament. These represent two ways that Jesus was understood within several decades of his death:
Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds. He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. (Heb 1:1-3a)
...his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers--all things have been created through him and for him.... For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, (Col 1:14-16, 19)
There are two things to note in these passages. The first is that Jesus is seen as a human vehicle for God to be present. Note that in these passages there is both a distinction between Jesus and God, and an identification of Jesus with God. Jesus is a human being. But he is God's way of being present as a human being. He embodies God completely.
The other thing to note is that Christ is seen as "pre-existent". That is, creation was done through him. While he was born sometime around 3 BC, there was also a sense in which that human being embodies something that was around before the world was created. The best-known treatment of this is the beginning of John's Gospel:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. ... And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-3a, 14)
Thus Christ is seen in two ways. In pre-existent form he is God's creative power, who was always with God and in fact part of him. As such, he is one of the Trinity. However he was born as a human being in history.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
And scarlett I don't know what church you belonged too.
And I would definately say that I agree that jesus in the bible never claimed to be above God. Nor did he ever tell people he was God. In fact, he said worship the Lord they God!
However, being that you are a christian why don't you please enlighten us on your churches theory of who Jesus was, why he died on the cross, how his blood could save the lambs, and his connection with God please! Let us know what church you belong too as well and sect of christianity they are upon. Protestant, southern baptist, born again?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I think PM summed up exactly what I said to be the beliefs of the majority of christians.
And scarlett you do and have mentioned the same yourself on this very website! On the whole the basis of the trinity is the basis of christianity!
I.E. that God is 3 that makes 1.
And pm "broken" is the same thing as seperating God into 3 and then trying to explain why and how that makes 1.
You have not reiterated nothing I have not said myself.
And amen to your analysis of muslims! I agree, some are the biggest abusers of shirk in the world. Who take scholars literally as God!
As for the prophet then what he said commanded us to do and practiced is not up for us to debate unless we enter the fold of disbelief. I.E. that he was not a prophet and did not leave us upon a clear religion in which we follow his example. Should he have made any mistakes it is quite clear that according to muslim theology God corrected him at those times!
Now if you would like to talk about the authenticity of certain hadith that would be another issue entirely!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
PH...your comments make me wonder just what kind of Christian you were raised since I have NEVER believed in anything like what you have been saying and I've been a Christian for over 51 years.
God is God...Jesus is Jesus...we consider Him to be the son of God that God sent down to earth to save us from our sins. He died for us on the cross and showed us how believing in Him shall save us. Jesus never put himself above God, nor even at his side. We do not have God's blood in our veins nor do we believe God is in everything. We do however believe God MADE everything. We believe we can talk to God and if we are lucky enough, God talks to us.(not as in those voices in your head kinda things tho)
The reason Mormons aren't considered to be Christians is that they can forsake Jesus but can't forsake the Mormon church...
Jehovahs' witness..I don't know enough about them except that they are incredibly annoying when they knock on your door.
So, please do not mislead people who are Muslims into thinking Christians believe as you do...we don't and we dont' need you feeding more misinformation...there's enough between the two religions as it is!!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
...and thank you for clearing that up!
:)
PM, you have no idea how wonderful it is to see you back on QL. Please stay. You have made my day, no month.
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Tig... I am with you on that last statement... If McShame wins I do not see any circumstances where I go back to the USA...
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
I remember reading a research paper back in early 2001 that attributed GW Bush's 2000 presidential election "victory" to American Muslims.
It revolved around all the non-sense with Florida and how it left a void where a small number of people ended up tipping the state results.
It stated the mosques and Islamic centers openly asked their congregation to vote for GWB because he aided them in something that Al Gore would not. Faith based schooling and vouchers from the federal or state government.
Which meant that you would be able to send your child to a private faith based school on the government's dime since you pay taxes for public schools anyway...
Not that Al Gore would have gotten much Muslim vote anyway having a Jew as his VP... especially that flea infested dog Leiberman.....
It gave me concrete proof on why Muslims shouldn't vote... They aided the worst president in history to wreak havoc over the entire world.. let alone our small nation....
Wish I held onto that paper...
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
I did Alexa!
If we would have stayed to reception/kindergarden in the uk. We had already paid the fees and transferred her to a private rather then a public(not state) school in case Qatar never happened. One that did not mind if she wore hijab or prayed during the day as well.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
it's good to have debates and tackle sensitive issues once in a while, but sometimes it's just too much....
My poor wee head was spinning with all these arguements & firmly made points......, like my old pub on a Friday night when everyone had had too much to drink!!
And then I woke up! ;-)
lol Torque,..it's anything but enlightening....better chill back in MP's thread...
Oh, maybe not then!
Back to the wine then....
Torque 8-)
Not sure of the nuts and bolts of it but the links states he pledges &500 million more towards faith-based initiatives.
Is that all faith based organizations or just selected ones ?
Obama is also for more funding for community faith-based organizations.
http://pewforum.org/religion08/compare.php?Issue=Faith__Based_Initiatives
Brit that is why we would like her to watch it! To hear about why they do it and their beliefs behind it!
However, the line gets crossed when she is forced to worship other than God (jesus in this particular case). LIke singing the xmas hymns which praised him as well And that is where we put our foot down!
I definately would like her to mix with all races and religions. Including her own and to have a good understanding of them.
And I regularly teach her about jesus, santa, passover, and also explain why I chose not to follow it! And that she also has freedom of choice as well.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
"enjoyment of life is more a question of attitude than geography"
That's a nice way to sum up that sentiment Tig. I'll start using that. Usually I just say "life's what you make of it, innit", but your way is far more profound.
Xena - don't rise to the bait. You know he's only after a reaction, as he has been in all his many QL guises.
'''
Tigi I will enjoy my life as long as my husband is happy out there! I really hope he gets the opp. (job wise and islamic) he came out there for.
With him I always feel at home and happy! And thats why I gave Qatar a chance! Because before him I had never known that feeling.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
To be honest, I would think that participating in assembly would give her a wider outlook and an insight into her own and other religions.
The "cross" is just an insignia and to a child means nothing, unless we make a big deal out of it..
As for Saudi.. I lived there for a while and loved it.. Hope you'll find Qatar to be a more congenial place..
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Its as good here as you want it to be for the most part. I find enjoyment of life is more a question of attitude than geography.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Excuse me 7aasebToua3, who the hell are you to speak to me like that?
And explain to me exactly how you have not done what I have said was happening here with Islam being rammed down our throats....
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qatarpets.org
Britexpat assembly is alive and well in british schools. It is currently the law! Alot of atheists are trying to ban it from the education system.
I tried to join them but they said that because I was a muslim our beliefs would clash! The racists! LOL
She went to a public school not state or catholic! However, most private schools and public schools let the children opt out of participating in the ceremoney. Unfortunately, my daughters school would not allow her to do so. Despite us saying we did not mind if she watched it as long as no participation.
Tigi I am very nervous about going to Qatar! I don't make friends easily as you can tell by my personality.
I lived in saudi for two years and it was the worst in my life as well. However I am hoping Qatar proves to be an adventure and good experience for me.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
As far as I know "Assembly" is not the norm in British schools anymire. RE (Religious Education) is usually offered as an optional subject with all religions taught.
If your daughter has to wear a cross, then she probably goes to a C of E or Catholic school..
It will be interesting to hear what you make of it.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
My husband has relocated to Qatar now! I travel alot back and forth for business/family and so wanted to wait until it cooled down over there before coming.
Until August 4th I lived in the UK previously for about 6 years!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Do you live in the UK still or are you living in Qatar now?
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Just a few meaningless words.
Try going to the UK where the schools have (gosh forgot the name now.. its like a prayer session) every week!
daughter has to wear a cross on her uniform too.. Mainly because that is the tradition. According to statistics over 51% of the uk are no longer christian.
Alot more born agains in america though.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Okay, so let's play.
Bush/McCain/Palin think that gay marriage is unnatural and should never be allowed.
What do muslims think?
Bush etc think that there should be more religious education in schools.
What do muslims think?
Bush etc think that current social problems in the US can be attributed to the breakdown of family values, and if marriages were stronger and there were fewer unwed/divorced parents, things would be better.
What do muslims think?
Bush etc want harsher penalties for people convicted of crimes against morality (drug trafficking, prostitution, child sex offences, etc).
What do muslims think?
Have the flames burned your brain...down there?
"God said that Jesus is his son, and no one will gain the kingdom of heaven unless they have accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour and his son.."
Definitely not. God clearly said that he has no son:
SAY: HE IS GOD (ALLAH), THE ONE; GOD (ALLAH), THE ETERNAL, ABSOLUTE, HE BEGETS NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN, AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM (112:1-4)
"That is why we praise and worship Jesus"
I assure you that whoever worships a human being, will be doomed in hell
"I am honestly so sick and tired of how Islam gets pushed down our throats at every single interval on QL... really, do you find the Christians preaching christianity EVERY SINGLE DAY?"
QL is full of ugly people who have no job but to attack & insult islam daily...this is actually the theme of QL, so feel sick as you like as long as some decent people will defend their religion against those ugly & hateful attacks.
I am sure that "you guys" will not preach christianity, but will preach about the advantages of being gay...simply because "you guys" believe in gays, more than in a God!
when we no longer have to plead "So help me God" nor spend dollars that have printed on one side "In God We Trust"... (Did you mention that Elvis had left the building?). Apparently not.... ;-)
"Never believe everything you hear, and only believe half of what you see" Tim Stainforth
it was the first time he got an understanding of the whole thing!
Yeah I thought about all that gypsy! However just like their are ways to speak.. i.e. my little mental retardation hiccup..
So are there when it is so directly related to Islam.
I mean the fact is that the politicians are not anywhere near the ideals of Islam!
However, as I mentioned previously, if you would have pointed out something specific that also happens to be a bonafide islamic belief or targeted beliefs of some extreme islamicists the all would have been fair in love and war.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Rami-leb you put things so much better then I do. :)
LOL MP some people are nicer when they have had a few drinks!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
And just for the record, if i spoke outta line, and abused yer religion, then i apologise...
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Why is it that none of the Muslims here can enter into a serious debate about the ideological values of Bush/McCain/Palin when compared to those preached by Muslims?
The best the Muslims can do to refute the comparison is to launch some sort of semantic debate about the holy trinity and come to the conclusion that since Muslims don't believe in the trinity, there is no common ground.
Either:
The Muslims busy saying that are too arrogant to admit that they don't actually know what the religious/personal beliefs of Bush etc are (in which case you need to wonder why they are posting on the thread)
OR
The Muslims are too worried about appearing as hypocrites when they admit that ideologically there is A LOT of common ground between some US politicians and some extreme Muslims.
Whether you like it or not THERE ARE common beliefs shared between Muslims and Republicans. You can find it insulting and deny it all you like, but it is categorically TRUE.
I'm the first to admit that the Republicans in questions are lunatics on issues like foreign policy and warmongering, but you would be dreadfully naive to dismiss out of hand the idea that when it comes to ideology, they are actually quite similar to Muslim beliefs.
At the end of the day, Bush/McCain etc are people with strong religious (Christian) views. Stong Christian views about marriage, family, divorce, abortion, contraception, creationism, evolution, Garden of Eden etc etc etc don't fundamentally differ ALL THAT MUCH from the beliefs held by many Muslims.
So - can the Muslims prove me wrong? Or will they just say I'm wrong and leave it at that, as though that's a intellectually watertight way to debate a topic?
But isn't the US already secular? I mean christianity left the building with elvis yesterday.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
obviously your not reading what the others are writing.. I am only replying back to them Janey Janey!
Besides I have gheerah for my religion which is also an obligation!
MP I'm all about love and passion!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
There, back on topic.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
that the original topic got bypassed! Agree with you totally about the need for a secular USA.
"Never believe everything you hear, and only believe half of what you see" Tim Stainforth
geez. Give it a break already, some are trying to divert back to the topic and you are still constantly preaching.
Defensive much?
So why the hate ?
I only asked a question....
Im all for religious freedom, as well you know.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
MP
If you would like to find out then I am happy to give what knowledge I have of it! As it is an obligation upon me to give knowledge which I possess to those who ask of it. And to refrain from speaking of that which I know nothing about!
but as it seems you are just being sarcastic this is probably not the right topic to bring it up!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Well I'm not pushing islam down anyones throat on here! I am just combatting the serious misconceptions and rudeness by people!
you see I am just as sick of hearing that excuse everytime my religion is attacked and people don't want to hear the truth of what it says!
Tigi.. I respect your views.. and see truth and wisdom in there. Even if I choose not to come to the exact same conclusions!
The best ambassadors to Islam are usually people who try to sugar coat it in any way possible. Much like many politicians do with their beliefs. So it looks good those who are not naturally inclined towards it!
I am straight forward and honest and not trying to push it down anyones throat by sugar coating. As my belief is that it is an insult to a persons intelligence.
And to be honest I am definately not here trying to show off my knowledge! I actually have very little knowledge of my religion and live my life in a way that makes it inevitable for people to see what I possess of it! I have never wished for status because of it and avoid all such opp. like the plague! Of which I assure you I have had ample chance to entertain!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Criteria, then what ?
What yer gonna do with them, kill ' em for been kafirs ?
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Umm, der.
The blood spilt was that of Christ. You know, the one on the cross.
The Apostle Paul here is referring to the divine spirit within the body of Christ.
Did you think that this referred to God's *actual* blood????
rami leb please read the explanation I gave above where I said we are the blood of God is often used as an idiom!
An idiom is often known as a figure of speech to describe something that it does not literally mean.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
For the record this post was never intended as an attack on Islam or any other religion. It was merely intended to point out the differences (rather scary ones in my opinion) between the Republican and Democrat Presidential candidates.
Personally, I am all for religious freedom and tolerance of worship. This is why I want a secular America. A secular America is what will nurture diversity and tolerance. An America led by religious fundamentalists (and here I mean Christians) will not engender a tolerant society.
As per usual, there are some people who use QL to grandstand their religious views and lecture us on "the truth" and position themselves as experts.
I know many Muslims and count some as very close friends. These friends are by far the best ambassadors of Islam because they do not spend their days copying and pasting vast tracts of the Quran and showing off their knowledge. Instead they let their actions and the way they live their lives underline and emphasize their beliefs.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Jesus blood being spilt on the cross to cleanse our sins and for God to forgive us of our sins...
No where does it talk about Christians having Gods blood in us.
During communion we eat bread - (Jesus said eat, this is my body given in rememberance of me) and we drink wine/grapejuice - Jesus said drink in rememberance of my sacifice to you)
Nothing, no where about Gods blood in our veins.
Oh, and God said that Jesus is his son, and no one will gain the kingdom of heaven unless they have accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour and his son, basically no one gets to the father, unless they have gone through Jesus first.
That is why we praise and worship Jesus, because God told us Christians to do that.
One more thing, seriously, and remembering I am not a "practising" christian... although I love God and believe that Jesus died on the cross for me, I am honestly so sick and tired of how Islam gets pushed down our throats at every single interval on QL... really, do you find the Christians preaching christianity EVERY SINGLE DAY? Yes, we all have our beliefs, but can the Muslims please stop trying to convert us by ramming your ideals and religion down our throats?
Yes, we are in a muslim country, but that does not mean I want to convert to Islam, and I have no inclination to do so.... Yours is NOT the only religion on this earth, and many of us too believe our religion is the only one, but you never hear us forcing it on you.....
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qatarpets.org
yes that is fine! differing is allowed in many of those religions. Particularly because they are not clearcut.
In islam what we can differ about is clearly defined! I.E. are books are probably the most straightforward of all the religious texts. And I say that with an extremely unbiased and open mind!
Many people claim to be a religion yet who is and who isn't part of it? I.E. jehovah witnesses do not believe in the trinity.. so they are not christians but rather jehovah witnesses. Mormons believe in the book of mormon and anyone who does not is considered to be a disbelieving gentile! Islam believes that Prophet Mohammad was the last prophet and Only Allah should be worshipped anyone who does not is not Muslim! Qadianis claim that they are muslim yet believe in a prophet after Prophet Mohammad! Which clearly goes against clear cute can't miss it text in the Quran! So they are considered non muslims. Yet they also consider us disbelievers as we do not believe in their prophet!
The reference for each of these faiths need to be taken back to the books they claim to follow!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
"First find out the definition of what makes a set of beliefs christian, muslim, jewish, and then weed out all those who do not meet its criteria. Very simple and uncomplicated!"
Religious beliefs vary enormously - my European Muslim friends would be surprised by some of the beliefs of my Qatari Moslem friends, for example. My atheist friends would probably just laugh it off, my Buddhist friends would embrace the differences, my Christian friends would probably try to convert them, and so on.... ;-)
"Never believe everything you hear, and only believe half of what you see" Tim Stainforth
The blood of God is spoken in the bible many times. Theologists often believe it refers to the blood of jesus which was spilled so that we may be forgiven.
"Feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28).
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Yes, you are, PH.
Rather than correcting me and showing me your superior knowledge (all the way up there) you just claim to be above my head.
Your apology for your ignorance and presumption is noted.
rami leb.. I'm way over your head!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
If I was a voting person who believed what they heard.. it would be obama.
For all the reasons britexpat mentioned! I don't think mccain is open minded enough to understand the people!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Where on earth did you hear that Christians talk about the Blood of God?
God isn't human. God doesn't have blood.
In any case, I think what you are referring to is the eucharist, in which case you are referring to the blood and body of CHRIST - the person (with blood, and a body) and not God.
But I guess I'm only a mentally retarded Christian, not an all knowing Muslim. Of course I am most likely wrong, so can any Muslim please clarify the this for me?
Christians have been in disagreement for centuries about whether or not the blood and wine of the Eucharist/Holy Communion is really the ACTUAL blood of Christ, or merely the spirit of it.
Perhaps they should have just asked a Muslim first!
to some extent, yes, Sir.
Gypsy.. everyone differs and agrees on issues. Me and you agree 100% on how many issues?
Christianity and Islam are very similar in alot of issues and completely differ and become enemies on others!
bush and palin claim to have a few christian ideas in order to gain a vote! They could be dancing around naked in the moonlight and part of some satanic occult for all we know.
Anyway having said all that, their beliefs are completely different then islams in almost all of them save one or two!
Voyageress could you call a person a christian who doesn't believe that Jesus is the son of God. Or do you call them a jehovah witness.
First find out the definition of what makes a set of beliefs christian, muslim, jewish, and then weed out all those who do not meet its criteria. Very simple and uncomplicated!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I agree with you on that aspect. However, the new government can have a major say on civil rights, civil liberties, security. education and welfare..
First appeal to your base, then run to the middle. In a truly democratic society there is almost never an absolute majority. To win you have the court the undecideds (or those without a major candidate in the final stretch).
This is different for McCain. He was too moderate for the base so he got Palin to shore up his base.
to clarify my point: Bush isn't running America. It's Halliburton, General Motors, Phillip Morris, etc.
Kennedy did not run America. When he tried to, he was assassinated. Lincoln didn't run America. When he tried to, he was assassinated. They are good in killing the "wrong" presidents, trust me.
interpretation and everyone else is wrong. Many religions are divided even within their own basic beliefs, Christians are not immune to this; neither are Muslims - there are even geographical variations. Those Islamic Sects that Princess H said have "broken away from the true message of Islam" are probably thinking the same thing about her and her new beliefs!! Personally I think it is healthy to ask questions when something isn't logical - too many people subscribe to the "opium of the people" with blind faith. It's a fascinating subject, nonetheless....
"Never believe everything you hear, and only believe half of what you see" Tim Stainforth
You're right.. I think Obama will have a harder time implementing "Change". There are too many vested interests.
At least with McCain, we know that bhe will broadly follow the policies of the current government.
If McCain does get into power, then it will be interesting to see if he tries to implement more 'conservative" ideals...
Because unlike my little mental retarted statement which was obviously taken the wrong way by people.
You directly insulted Islam by comparing their ideals with palins and bushs.
Its one thing to do so with political or individual belief but to degrade a whole religion based on your limited view of it is in need of an apology!
You don't have to like it gypsy! I certainly never asked you to like it. But I do expect you and others to give Islam the due respect every set of belief deserves.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
it will be good if they will be able to live up to their promises once they're in office.. that still remains to be seen....
But here values ARE the same! Are you really so dense that you can't see that?
whereas the question remains, brit, if they will be able to stick to their promises. You know too well that "lobbies" can be very powerful.
...however, we all thought Blair was a good guy before he took office!
Politicians "manipulate" the masses to gain power. However, in this case , It does matter who gets into power, because McCain and Obama represent two different directions that the most powerful nation in the world can take..
This can have a long term effect on global politics and alliances.
MD...true..
Do I now, and why would that be?
We all should take a breather and really rediscover the roots of our dissent. When reading about the genesis of divergent paths, we get a better understanding of the whole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism
MOst christians besides jehovah witnesses and a few other sects believe in the trinity!
Actually gypsy I think you owe muslims an apology!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
to come back to the original thread: politicians are ruthless. They use every possible method to gain votes. They even pretend to be religious to win the votes of the religious people. In the end it means nothing. They have to deal with social, economical, and political problems. This requires experts, not priests. So, it really doesn't matter who wins the election.
I don't know a whole lot about religion. I have read a book on Islam because I wanted to understand more about Islam. I don't really practice any religion because the Bible was written based odd of hearsay years after Jesus walked the earth. The Roman Catholic Church took books out of the Bible because it didn't fit their beliefs or how they wanted to run things religiously.
I guess what I want to know is isn't it the Catholics who believe in the Trinity? I have never heard a "Christian" which is different than "Catholic" saying "in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."
Yup PH completely speechless that you actually have the gall to tell Christians what they do and do not believe in.
Especially coming from me because I am not one of the people who use such strong words very often like the rest of the people on here Winn! So I agree it was extreme for me!
Anyway.. people wanted to test my knowledge! besides.. I'm all good with saying that for instance palin and bush are as dedicated to their beliefs as a muslim is to theirs.
But some of the comparisons were outright awful! And completely untrue! People should know what their talking about before they speak!
But of course, if you haven't noticed they just want to degrade islam every little chance they get. So they could care less if it their is even a hint of truth in the comparison.
At the end of the day.. I am a fighter and always will be! I am particularly defensive when it comes to my religion from both muslims and non muslims. And do not take such things in jest!
To be honest most of the time I have been quite kind and understanding of people until absolutely pushed out of my seat.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
It's all on record maaan, your in the matrix ;)
clearbluesky - I didn't mention anything about narrow-mindedness or Muslims thinking they follow the best religion. Think you've confused me for someone else or something.
Anyway, I've had enough of this. Sorry for ruining your thread Tig. And for the record, I don't think PH tried to call non-Muslims retarded. It was just worded poorly and hence mis-intepreted by some.
I knew I had it somewhere God's Cell No. +00 1 987 4563 .....Oh and while your on the phone to him just ask him if he intends on turning down the heat anytime soon...;P
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
lol janey....
All hail princess habibah!
whats politics so kitkat chocolae in super market
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Wow gypsy thanks! YOu must be at a loss for words!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
oh yea i am a big loser i dont know anything.
so whats god telephone number or cell number maybe i can text him
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Speak for yourself, personally I'm just an ignorant Blonde Bimbo who doesn't know how to read.....
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
You are on to something when you mention the Ahura-Mazda faith. The peoples of the Earth all borrow from one another. The simple fact is the temporal world spoils the purity of the spirit regardless what we call it. There is a universal truth.
ah...come on PH! therz quite a lot of differance between comparing Islam n politicians and comparing some of the principles that both stand for. jus coz they said X believes in a principle that is also advocated by Islam doesnt mean they r comparing X and Islam!! I mean how wud anyone compare a relegion to a person/party!!
But yeah...I wud defenitely say the mental retard thing was a wee bit extreme!! I mean its not the same as calling one a retard over a soccer match or a bar brawl as when u call that over a relegious debate!! ;)
We are the Great Retarded Qlers
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With regards to a secular America: Polls show that around 85% of Americans believe in G-d, whereas in W. Europe, it is closer to 50%. So I suggest never living in America again but you might as well turn in your "pass"port and adopt another homeland while you are at it, say France. You want the privileges of membership without paying the dues.
Yes everyone, lets all remember, we're all mentally retarded except for PH.
It has been spoken as idiom by many christian churches and with theologians that WE ARE THE BLOOD OF GOD!
in order to explain that God is everywhere and in everything and we are part of him as well!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
winn that is what I have stated on this very website so many times! No one knows the truth until they die! We can only try our best.
Like I said I'm not here fighting over whose religion is right and wrong!
I'm just pissed off because people like to insult Islam and compare it to politicians. And then when someone who comes in and has a bit of knowledge about what they speak.. everyone jumps on them and tries to argue the points away!
Gypsy here is trying to prove that we muslims attested something to christianity that was untrue!
She is still trying to find out what it is!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Since when did Christians believe we have God's blood in us? Are you referring to communion?? My God girl go back to Sunday school, 5 year olds understand more about Christianity then you do!
thats i call a debate from fun to seriousness carry on you bunch of crap :D
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And mis cat it is because of the concept of Tawheed (not joining any partner or seperating him in any way) that inspires muslims to pray five times a day. bowing their heads to the ground in humbleness and going to the masjid everyweek for jummah!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
WWell, PH, at the end of the day, we can only believe that God is such , we cant really KNOW! (n theres quite a lot of distance between believing and knowing)so whats the fuss about anyway!! :)
back in your christian days.
The holy spirit has nothing to do with ghosts or specters, it has to do with the human enlightenment and the belief, not about god walking the in non corporeal form. It's basic Christianity 101 dear girl you are the one that needs to read. The holy trinity is more a mantra to remember what is important about Christianity and remember the teachings that's it's significance.
To remember "The Father" God creator, "The Son" Jesus - who gave his life so that Christians could live and "The Holy Spirit" the sense within that ties them to the first two the reason they go to church every Sunday.
It is you who needs to go back and read....
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
I read it as 'the guidelines are so clear' but can see how others may interpret it differently (especially if they're looking for ammunition :-)
yes in most circumstances I would apologize. However given the situation and the people an apology without first them aknowledging the explanation would mean defeat!
Which they are happy to have in any means possible in order to feed their superiority complexes.
It is with this wisdom allahu alim that has prevented me from doing so.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Yes I changed the body to be throne instead in my second to the last post.
As christians believe they are the blood of God! And God is in everything much like the hindu concept!
Again a very different concept then muslims! And a very very different definition!
We do not believe God is everywhere! We believe he is above his throne and we are his creation. Not that we are living inside of him!
I would like you to note that I changed body to throne in that post before your last post! So it seems my bible lessons went well for me!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Does it really matter whethr God was 1/3, 2/3, 8/9 or whtevr fractions...esp since Islam refers to the ppl of othr 2 relegions as ppl of the book or somethin like tht!
n Tig, I guess only the elections can prove what Americans want(whtevr it is that they 'need'). Secular or non-secular!
On second thots, does it really boil down to that ? I mean wud a republican victory mean that the Americans support the kinda philosophy that Palin spouts abt God's will in Iraq war?
winn I have answered a few post above.
Furthermore.. I said that God was three however christians believe him to be ONE! I.E. they are all God.
however the definition in christianity is that he is broken up into 3 parts that become one and have always been one.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Technically PH, what WE PEOPLE have been taught is that God is everywhere and in everything, yet it it is still ONE God, those are the powers of an omnipotent being. Perhaps you should have attended more sermons in your youth, you don't seem to be grasping the technicalities.
clearbluesky - not sure why you're asking me "Wat if Muslims beleive Islam is the best religion for them?" I don't think I was questioning this or discussing anything about it.
With regard to how this thread turned onto religious things, why did you bother asking me if you were able to go back and find out for yourself. I wasn't trying to start an argument, I just answered your query ofF the top of my head. I wont bother next time if all you're doing is setting traps.
So how does that differ from what I have said!
You people believe that part of God has left the throne and come to earth as a man! That the Holy Ghost (spirit) is forever with us on earth to guide us!
We believe that God is above his throne and no part of him has ever left the place! We believe that only HE who has never left the throne is to be worshipped. And no other, human or spirit is meant to be worshipped other then the whole God on that throne!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
PH:"Muslims do believe that God has made it so blatently clear that only a mental retard could miss the guidelines he has set out in order to establish worship of him on earth."
Can you explain hu xactly are you pointing a finger at, (if not NON MUSLIMS)with the above statement of urs? Obviously u r talkin abt ppl hu dont follow the guidelines , which has to mean ppl hu dont believe in YOUR guidelines! and that can include non-mulims, no??
Am I wrong here? Do enlighten!!
clearbluesky, maybe it's you who doesn't want to admit that they have more in common with George W. then Barrack Obama.
Good on you winn! I would do the same! I'm not here trying to convince anyone of my religion!
Actually it is sanctioned to use such terms towards muslims who do not follow clear as day islamic guidelines. Particularly those who have left the fold of Islam yet still claim to be upon it.
It was not meant for any non muslim or those who differ in what is allowed to be differed in Islam.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
PH, In the words of the Athanasian Creed, an early statement of Christian belief, "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God".
Get it ONE GOD.
Talkin abt 'mental retards' i guess almost all relegions use such terms of endearments for referring to ppl hu dont see things their way!! Btw, PH, wer was that quote from? (if u dont mind givin the reference)
Abt jumping at being asked to jump, full credit to you, but yeah not for me...I wud defenitely ask huevr asks me to jump, "why the hell he wants me to" n I guess that y I got something called a brain free at birth!!
Clear blue why don't you read the comment! you'll see I never mentioned NON MUSLIMS as mentally retarded!
Gypsy why don't you enlighten us about what we said which was wrong?
with your all empowering knowledge about christianity.
If your right I'll take back what I said!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
this gets worse every minute....
Bunch of wimps! people can dish but can't hack it!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I love that the Muslims are trying to tell the Christians what Christians believe in. This post made my day. ENDLESS stupidity. :)
Tigi that is because you don't understand islam.. \
People in Islam who clearly stray from certain things that are black and white, clear as day.. have no reason do differ about .. do not have different beliefs. They have a completely different religion and one can sometimes go as far as saying that they do not believe in Islam!
Islam is not like Christianity when it is up for debate all the time! When the Prophet told us to jump.. we jumped! It was not an analogy!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
with the right to practise any belief you like without freedom or punishment. (That goes for the laws of the land as well, they should not be based on religious beliefs)
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
wow mp... I seemed to have already explained that I was not referring to non muslims as mental retards. Nor have I ever said or insinuated anyone was ever beneath muslims in any way!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
right I'm outta here, off to pick junior infidel up!!Enjoy!
Noobs to run their country, the wars will still go on, and us on QL will never agree on certain things.
Its another sunny day, so lets enjoy it.I know i will tonight with a few bottles of wine...
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
What is the difference Obama or McCain............
and the word 'mental retard' is something that would be found in a play ground and a 'perfect' being shouldn't be referring to those with mental illness like that now should they? Not very...how should I say...charitable..now is it?
Nice words but according to them PH has already strayed from her path, she herself has admitted that she was christian before converting to Islam.
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
Why are so many of you lumping Muslims with the lunatics?
I know a lot more Muslims who will be voting for Obama than McCain.
I realise that PH.
Close mind and open society OR open mind and close society........
"u guys are very funny coz u call anyone closed minded and touchy for trying to explain u ur prejudice while u hv the narrowest mind to tie every bad thing to Islam, however unrelated they r."
What i object to, is narrow minded people on here, who think Islam is the be all and end all of everything, and anyone who doesnt believe in it is a "mental retard"....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
If I remember correctly the discussion was about US candidates religious beliefs, and someone brought up that they worshipped a different God to Muslims. Hence the "discussion" ensued. The comments are all there for you to read back over!
Tallg its not my logic! It is only islamic belief!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I don't need to ask questions, I don't need to know about it from the God squad. I have muslim friends and religion is never mentioned because it doesn't need to be. I don't feel inferior, obviously sarcasm is wasted on some!I've lived in muslim countries for many years and not once has religion been an issue in anything!
Invite (all) to the way of Thy Lord with wisdom and preaching; and argue with them In ways that are best and Most gracious: for Thy knoweth best, who have strayed from His path, and who receive guidance.
who will lead the America secular or religeous let the people of USA decide...
Heck, after living in Qatar and getting to know the Muslims here (and in particular the ones on QL) the *last* people in the world I feel inferior to are Muslims.
Geez...
one on this site who can do that.
I just find yer calling Non muslims "mental retards" a bit over the top....Even for an easy going person like me....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Thanks for the explanation PH. Can't say I agree with the logic but it's good to know anyway!
rami leb I used to be a christian.. or wasn't it obvious!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
I have never read a post where you ever asked a question about islam supernurse! It seems you only like to criticise.
Sorry you feel so inferior to muslims because we are so strong about our beliefs! Certainly we do not look at you as an inferior! Perhaps its low self esteem!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Very helpful answer SN, thanks. Just because I'm not religious doesn't mean I don't want to learn about religions and the differences between them.
This topic is just getting too hot for me, for the sake of my fasting, i am out here. peace.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Exactly.
What the hell would a Christian know about Christianity.
Clearly the best people to ask are Muslims, who have an answer for everything.
a cold beer to calm you down, ok?
I don't want to involve myself in topic threads which are POLITICAL or RELIGIOUS in nature...
but PLEASE, DO NOT GENERALIZE about MUSLIMS & NON-MUSLIMS as we (Christians) don't do (pardon my ignorance if there really is)don't point fingers and say Christians and NON-CHRISTIANS...
Tallg the whole purpose of Islam is tawheed! I.e. not to split up God in any part! Once that is added to God then the definition of him changes and so does the religion.
It is the fundemental of Islamic belief and how one can easily tell those islamic sects who have broken from the true message of Islam!
Furthermore since we have lost the base of our belief the rules in order to establish it also change drastically!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
tallg, ours isn't to question these things. As infidels we are doomed idiots and we must respect those who know every little inch of their religion and holy book and live their lives by it. We're not going to a better place so we should just accept that we know nothing about religion and live in the shadow of the great faith.....I can live with that and I have the choice to wipe my bum with whichever hand I like! Wahey!
Wow you people really do not know how to read!
I think you people choose not to read! And that you love to make insults and comments by taking such things in jest that you have no care to learn about!
Does it make sense to comment on issues or compare islam to politicians when you so obviously know very little about the religion.
hey supernurse.. I don't really care if you or anyone else never read the Quran or anything about Islam. I just wish people would stop making comments as if they know something about it.
YOu people do not even know about your own religion!
Now MP if you find a simple housewife intimidating then I'm afraid you've lost your balls. Stuck up and arrogant are definately not two words anyone has ever used to describe me! Perhaps you mention them because they pertain to yourself?
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Why does it bother you so much that Christians have split their view of God into three? It's still the same God that you worship, with the same values.
Well at the end of the day, at least the Americans get the chance to vote for who they want to be building their schools, roads and hospitals.
A bit of accountability when it comes to those things goes a long way.
Imagine a country where there are no powerful elected representatives, rolling in oil and gas revenue, where there are serious traffic problems because the road network is perpetually under construction. Or where school fees are so high because there is such limited government support. Or where you have to queue like animals (or fly to another country) to see a doctor because the public hospital sector is so underfunded.
I pity a country that wants to elect a Vice-President because (not despite) she is a working class, white trash mother who likes huntin' and shootin'. But at least they get a choice.
Ok but you got too personal, let us just agree to disagree without firing too much fire.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Ahhh, may I say a convert to the great scarf? Am I correct? That explains it then!! Typical!
I find that quite insulting, so fight fire with fire !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
:)
Who is?
Don't try and put words in my mouth. You say this about me.
"You said yourself he was broken! I.e. that he was not God but the son of God.. i.e. suggesting that he was the trinity." Where do I say these things?
As far as you proving me wrong. I don't see that you have ever proved anything.
Your superior attitude is very annoying especially your assumption that people who do not share your beliefs are mental retards.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
that is actually too low to go Mr Paul. i thought you were a better person.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
English should be flawless.
She speaks decent Arabic.
And her Husband is at the top of the tree in his field of work, even though a lot of us have never heard of him.
Thats why she thinks we are all Plebs with no brains...
Stuck up and arrogant is my opinion of her....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
See rami-leb we dont care what these folks believe, we just care that they leave us alone and stop the war mongering everywhere.
as Christians they are both same to me but they arent same to me when it comes to world peace.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
PH, I'll pass on reading the Koran, I've had a look and its as hard going as the bible....so I'll take a rain check cheers...
ok,..7 just came in...expect things to get hot in here...
Supernurse it had nothing to do with Islam until some people like gypsy injected into it. and as per the natural reaction it got here. :D
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Well on one hand you have a candidate who wants recognition of same sex couples, and one who doesn't.
You have one candidate who wants sex education in schools to include contraceptives, and one who only believes in abstinence.
You have one candidate who believes that creationism is a religious belief and shouldn't be taught as being in any way scientific, and one who believes that creationism is more water tight than evolution.
You have one candidate who wants to try and protect the environment, and one candidate who read in the bible that all the world was a gift from god and mankind should feel free to exploit its natural resources.
You have one candidate who wants to give less money to religious groups, and one candidate who wants more money to be given to religious groups.
Which is the candidate that most muslims would feel compelled to vote for, based on religious ideology?
PH, I would say that those who were 'arguing' aren't practising...
Everyone except BritExpat is not as well read as you?
Please!
what has this post got to do with Islam anyway?!!
Tjhat statement was not meant towards non muslims nor is it insinuated against them!
It is clearly against those who are able to read Islamic text and make it other then it is.
Islamic text is very straight forward. If a person is getting it completely wrong (fair enough everyone makes mistakes) then he probably isn't reading it properly!
Whats more I find it odd that all the christians argued about Jesus being God! Considering that the majority of the christian trinitarian world believe it to be so.
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Don't get upset tigi because I proved you wrong now!
You said yourself he was broken! I.e. that he was not God but the son of God.. i.e. suggesting that he was the trinity.
Crap! Actually I would say most of the crap I spout is pretty hardcore research that you people fail to read about but keep writing useless and downright degrading posts about islamic belief!
The only one on here who is not a muslim and even has a clue about Islam is britexpat. I suggest you people read up on it the same way he has!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
and accepts that her daughter is pregnant with a bastard on the other hand?
oh yeah now you are telling me trinity is not three, and yet you will again tell me they are three and once more you will tell me its just three into one or whatever one into three. please humans arent stupid thats why we are logic and reasoning.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Sadly, I think you are right.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
"Muslims do believe that God has made it so blatently clear that only a mental retard could miss the guidelines he has set out in order to establish worship of him on earth.
Islam "
So anyone who isnt Muslim is a mental retard ?
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
QS everyone has a predefined time to pass this world but to be irresponsible has no place in Islam.
but what i am saying with the highway example, if an atheist doesnt believe in Hell or Heaven it doesnt matter to God, because if you believe it or not you will anyway face it because its the reality.
Rami-leb you are trying to twist things as always. read the comments i have been making.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Only you. Three parts of the same does not mean broken. As far as mentally retarded is concerned, who the hell are you to judge mental stability with all the crap you spout endlessly?
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
They pitch to that HUGE silent majority, the ones that never discuss their views for the fear of showing their stupidity! That's why no matter what Obama & biden do, and whatever the polls say, McCain and Palin will win by a landslide and everyone will then say how "surprised" they all are and how the polls were so far off!
Religion and religious beliefs have always sculptures societies at base level, but has usually been removed or separated from the most modern society's laws! ...and for good reason! It looks like the world is moving backwards!
Soon we may as well start praying for rain to water our crops again and give sacrafices to appease the forces of nature.
Anyhows, back to the topic....
Religion, who needs it, blah blah blah.....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
How can it be the same God if he is broken into 3.
Furthermore how could anyone say that Bush and palin were fundementally on the same page as muslim ideology when they break the first cardinal rule right off the bat.
The whole purpose of Islam is to Worship only God and not worship any partner alongside him. And establish this around the world!
Every action thereafter is for this very purpose.
Furthermore,
Islam does allow abortion under a certain number of weeks and in certain cases: i.e. health, rape
Contraception was practiced my muslims over 1400 hundred years ago!
Muslims allow a man to have sex with what his right hand posesses.
Muslim do believe God created the world but do not believe he has any partners.
No muslims do not believe they should do the work inspired by God: I.E. to think that we have a clue what we should do is considered arrogant.
Muslims do believe that God has made it so blatently clear that only a mental retard could miss the guidelines he has set out in order to establish worship of him on earth.
Islam
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Exactly tallg it's the same God spouting the same values ie: No abortion, no pre-martial sex, etc.
If Muslims vote for Obama they are voting for the exact opposite of what they believe in.
ah! popcorn!! dont find those spicy/cheese flavored ones in cinemas here!! :(
Whatever form Christians believe God takes, it doesn't change the fact that it's the same God that Muslims worship, so isn't really an issue in the context of this discussion.
life is much more laid back and chilled.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
with all these debates going on, i'll stay on the safe side for now.. hmm, wonder if snowyowl still has some more popcorn...
some confusion, I was agreeing with you if you don't believe in anything then there is nothing to worry about might have been a better way to phrase it.
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
Actually tigi Islam believes the first religion of God was zorostorian
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t005.html claims jesus is God!
And taken from wikipedia
While there have been theological disputes over the nature of Jesus, Christians (trinitarians) generally believe that Jesus is God incarnate and "true God and true man" (or both fully divine and fully human)
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
Realsomeone. Personally, I don't care what religion you are, if you think you are talking directly to God and taking instruction from God then I am afraid for you. According to Islam, Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in and worship the same God. Muslims believe that Islam is the last and the perfect incarnation of faith which started with Judaism, then Christianity and then Islam.
Don't start on different interpretations because these also exist in Islam. There are different sects in Islam and different interpretations just as there are in Christianity and Judaism.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
They do believe that whatever happens to them is the will of God...
So if the beliefs of George Bush and John McCain are fundamentally at odds with Muslims, then you are saying that:
Muslims allow abortions
Muslims allow contraception
Muslims allow sex out of marriage
Muslims don't believe that god created the world
Muslims don't believe that governments should do work inspired by God
Surely you can't be serious?
btw, whts with this highways n speeding cars n hell n heaven...i mean we started somewhere with American presidential election, dint we?? or did we?
And this is exactly other way round. Those who believe that God prepared for them a certain time to leave this world, would sit at the highway and “dont believe a high speeding car will hit them”, unless it’s prepared by God yet. And if so, there is no reason to be careful on the highways.
I know this theory. Some people don’t even try to look around while crossing a busy street.. why? Because based on their believes, they will die at particular moment, no sooner, no later, therefore no reason to care about your life/health. God has taken complete care of it.
I know exactly what the Christians thought when they created the Trinity: It's like a proton. It is made up of three quarks. The cannot be separated from each other but they have distinct differences, (color, electrical charge, for example). However, only as a trinity they can form the proton. Maybe these guys knew it all 2000 years ago?
Like one Native American Chief put it..."y'all read from the same book, but still dont agree with each other" (or something like that!!)...I guess thats quite true for all major relegions!!
this will end up just like the other threads on religion, culture, etc...hmm, wonder what'll happen if "7" joins this thread...
So you have seen both have you????
It's nothing like sitting on a highway saying you don't believe in a speeding car.
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
PH, thats makes it sound even more inplausible than it already is!!
"According to Islam, Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in and worship the same God. Muslims believe that Islam is the last" Tig i agree with this but what I was referring to is Christianity of today with many versions of bibles not what Jesus(phuh) brought to this world.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
on a motorway will get you hit by a car.
You cant prove there is heaven or hell....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Is that how you are driving down the highway, realsomeone? Always thinking of another car hitting you? You must have been in Qatar too long.
world would be a better place if everyone was an atheist!
Ah yes the greatest confusion of the bible
They are considered different and one in the same.
Nevertheless they are all 3 considered God.. the holy spirit being the power of God, the helper of mankind. Jesus being his son in the flesh.. i.e part of his spirit who entered the body of a human. And the father who after seperating himself into 3 stayed in heaven to watch the world go by.
hence the majority (not minority) consider Jesus as God incarnate! And worship him as God himself!
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
The holy trinity broken down is this
The Father - God
The Son - Jesus
the Holy Spirit - The faith that you have in the first two.
Most mispronounce the last and say "Holy Ghost" but it is in fact "Spirit" as in The spirit that lies within a person and has nothing to do with ghostly apparitions....
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
We'll see eventually I guess, realsomeone. Or not, if you see what I mean.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
if you dont believe hell and heaven its like sitting in a highway and saying i dont believe a high speeding car will hit me.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
lol MD...
Cheers to that piece of profound wisdom Mis-cat!! But on second thoughts...wht about taxes, inflation n so on...
It's called "Trinity", Supernurse. Some people think it's called "Trilogy".
The future is made of the same stuff as the present - Simone Weil.
It's as I always say, "If you don't believe in Heaven and Hell, than you have nothing to worry about"
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
Supernurse and suddenly you will hear they are one. absolute confusion.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
If Obama and Biden don't win this election, I can help you with the immigration to Canada Tig..:)
Holy Trinity....thats it...Trinity pertaining to three..
down the hill, brit.
No! The holy ghost is a different entity, thats why they are called the 3 something or other......God,Jesus and the holy spirit...all different people.....alledgedly..
Correction: Christians believe that Jesus is the son and 1/3 of God! I.E God is 3 and makes up the father, the holy ghost and jesus. They are all one in the same.
And one can find the majority of christians calling jesus their God. Praying to him and singing songs of praise to him as their lord!
He is also known as the creator of all creation as he partaked as God being 1/3 of him.
Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe God created the world and therefore muslims are allowed to marry them. Muslims also believe that christians and jews have set up other Gods beside THE GOD who created the world and commit shirk(worship of these other Gods such as jesus, their scholars, money, the list goes on)
Maryum : Umm Hasan bint Abdullah Alshabrawishi
High-five to that MP!
ok.. now I know what xactly can fix my confusion!!I need a drink!A strong one!
Marhabtain...got any gin left?
actually, tallg, I meant have faith in yourself and then, of course, in whatever you believe. And then you may wander, but don't wonder what others might believe. At least it works for me.
Where did this thread start and where is it heading ?
selves on what we eat, wear, say, do etc.
No worrying about that lightning bolt striking us from above...
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Tig i dont need to call you ignorant but the book you are talking about has hundreds of versions (bible) so first tell me which is the correct version and then i will accept your thought.
its true Christianity originated from same God as Islam but what the Christianity we have today is not what Jesus(pbuh) brought to this world.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Perhaps that's my problem MD - lack of faith (in religious terms). So I'm free to wonder wherever.
Have faith, tallg, don't wonder.
nooo, Jesus is the son of Mary and Joseph but is also Gods son (?????) Hopefully this experiment in Geneva will put us all straight! (sorry hijack !!)
Thanks for clarifying Tig. I thought that was the case but then someone renowned for their religious views says something else and you get to wondering!
You have exhibited incredible ignorance not only of the Christian religion but also of Islam.
The whole reason why muslims are allowed to marry Christians and Jews is that Christians and Jews are "people of the book" which means that they all believe in the same and only God. According to muslims, Islam is the perfect and final stage but the God all three religions believe in is the same God.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Anyway, back to politics...dont worry as to who wins, they are all a bunch of greedy corrupt tossers, who dont give a crap about the public, only on lining their pockets, same as any other politician from any other country in the world....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
and God himself is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.....then presumably Jesus is God? It's no wonder we're all confused, Tallg!!
Deleted
May GOD BleSS U aLL ...........
Whatever they believe, the point that they believe jesus is son of God is what a core value is, and that isnt something we share.
Our God doesnt have son! he is unique, he isnt like humans.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
I'm confused. I thought God was God and Jesus was Jesus. Anyway, enough hijacking. Sorry.
Realsomeone Palin and McCain don't believe that Jesus is God. Like it or not they believe in the same God you do.
you obliviously have no other knowledge of religions other than your own and what is preached to you.
Christianity does not believe Jesus is God, they Believe he is the Son of God big difference.
"Your born, You Live, You Die, given this premise, one can conclude since we have no control over when we are born and when we die, the only thing that matters to us should be how we live, simple really?" Mis-Cat to her philosophy Lecturer.
Tallg for us he isnt, but the point i am making here is that we dont share values with McCain and Palin at all because those values depend on the believe of God from the first place.
and anyway its the US citizens choice to make not ours but these two's behaviour of warmongering is not favorable to anyone who wants to see peace in this world.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Now I'm not religious, but Jesus isn't god, is he?
Can u share the secret of finding leaders hu can talk to God, anyone? ;)
The whole thing reminds me of something on the lines of "The Revenge of God " (by Gilles kepel.)
lol no, the God that talks to them is not the one we believe, they believe Jesus is God we dont. end of story.
we dont believe trinity and so forth. so we are totally in different opinion to who is to believe as God and that is why they arent my choice.
actually ( i prefer the Obama-biden thing).
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
aaaahhhh not again .....!!!! :(
HUh realsomeone? The core belief of McCain and Palin is that there is a God and he talks directly to them telling them all the same values that Muslims believe.
So how is that different? Seems the same to me.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Gypsy middle east (as I guess you mean Muslims) doesnt share those values with those people because they defer from the first core value which is Who is God, and everything else depends on your believe of God whether its creationism, abortion or whatever.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Tig u said it all
"I expect to pass through this life but once.
Therefore, if there be any kindness I can show,
or any good thing I can do for another human being,
let me do it now, for I shall not pass this way again
...William Penn
Actually, Blair was a sneaky one. Whilst in power, he kept on about his religious values, but kept in with the C of E crowd. As soon as he left office, he converted to Catholicism..
You know talking to God should be a sign that you're ready for the mental institution, not the Presidency.
LOL at Gypsy. True..........
Don't forget George Bush talks to God, Tony Blair talked to God and no doubt Sarah Palin talks to God. How lucky we are to have leaders with a hot line to God telling them to invade countries and enrich oil companies.
Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about
Why are you guys so surprised, we live in the Bible Belt of the World. These guys should be the number 1 choice of the middle east just because of those values.
McCain and palin could be the new "Blues Brother and Sister" - ON a mission from God..
It's amazing how the bible belt can influence politics in such a way..
"It's a task from God.."
LOOOOOOOOL
What a total nutcase.
Wow. She should run here.
If she does win, then it sure will put a spanner in the works for all those institutions which banned creationism teaching in schools.
Also, it will be interesting which way the Supreme Court goes. Will they be allowed to bring in conservative spreme court justices?
go tell 'em, Tig.. :)