Here comes Mr. holier-than-thou

@ Korly

I DID say several times alrady that ur employers should and MUST be grateful for the good job ur doing as well....it IS a two way street....so I dunno why ur raising up that point cuz I do not oppose it AT ALL

I'll say it again.....Im handing out recognition awards for all my expats who r doing a good job later on this month....I am being grateful and thankful as an employer and will always be

you lose nothing. But the other way around, what to gain?

Ok..then we are talking the same thing...if you read my previous post this is exactly what I had already said:

"Hence IMHO we need to thank Qatar as much as Qatar needs to thank the expatriates and vice verca and we should respect each other and know that both are indispensable."

And yes I am thankful to God for providing me the great opportunity for working in Qatar and also I am thankful to the Qatari government for providing a safe and secure environment for expatriates to stay in Qatar and in particular for its efforts in sustaining and reviving the islamic culture.

Your comment "be thankful for wat u get especially if its better than average"

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/2771806?page=1#ixzz1qzNHue17

Is exactly the kind of attitude that makes people angry.

Yes, maybe we do leave our countries to come and work for more money that we make back home, but don't you think that companies should also be greatful that someone as well qualified accepted the job?

Or they could just hire someone who isn't as qualified and pay them the same money for half the job.

I was head-hunted for my job - actually, the orginal pay wasn't as good as what I was getting, but the family were desperate to have me and promised me an increase once I had been with them 6 months.

I took the job. Not a day goes by without the Sheikha thanking me for the good job I do with the kids. The families gratitude makes me inclined to stay, even with the other job offers for better money, I have pouring in.

@insanity

Of course not....and to that I am EXTREMELY thankful...and will always show gratitude....I never said Qataris shouldnt be greatful

U actually made my point for me hehehe....be thankful for wat u get especially if its better than average

"..have heard very few expatriates say "Im only gettin what I deserve" those few I say if ur gettin exactly what ur worth u wouldda gotten the same offer back home..."

Lets be honest, can you say that whatever salary a Qatari is getting in Qatar he can get the same salary (for the same work) elsewhere ?? I beg to differ...

@ nomerci

Ma'am thats called bein polite just like u said it and I have no doubt that u r indeed polite

Lets get the record straight ur employer should or better yet MUST thank and show u gratitude for doing a better than average job I myself have received many recognition awards over the years and Im givin awards to some of my subordinate this month actually to show my gratitude for doin a great job.....as such Qatar should be thankful to expats who r doin a better than average job of course

With that in mind it goes to reason to reciprocate

IF AND ONLY IF ur employer is givin u a better than average pay and a better than average contract package more than what u would have earned...its quite logical to reciprocate that with gratitude or a simple "thank u" thats not bein polite that is in fact pure appreciation

Having said that.....Im wellin to bet that expats wouldnt have relocated to Qatar if they werent gettin a MUCH better pay than they would have back home or they wouldnt have left their home, family and friends for a mere job with the same pay....i got a job offer in abu dhabi last year with about a 10k QR raise which I rejected cuz its not worth the move Im sure expats deal with contracts the say way

Unless of course u dont need that job and ur filthy rich already and ur only doin ur work at little or no pay in which case only ur employer thanks u cuz ur doin him a favor....I have heard very few expats say "Im only gettin what I deserve" those few I say if ur gettin exactly what ur worth u wouldda gotten the same offer back home

It's actually part of being on the internet and how that affects your personality and perception. Think about it, you practically have access to every tidbit of information ever to exist. Of course you are going to assume that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. It's human behavior. If I am typing something from a computer I can check and see within seconds if I am right or wrong so my confidence and ego blast through the roof. That is all. :)

2020 and super cool, that is why I said this in my post yesterday :

Of course, we all are polite, well behaved people, so we will say "thank you" no matter what...the employee as well as the employer, that is.

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/2771806?page=1#ixzz1qxyCyH82

how many kilos does that mustache weigh ;)

I officially have a massive headache!!!!!

they have thrown all those labels at me and guess who they are. And I won't be surprised that they are somewhat have the guts to "try" to influence some people in power here in this forum. Just because I have a different voice.

whew ! thanx for a good read, LQ, er, QL. At this time, you guys should be able to read every person's attitude and worth, and know who to talk to.

LOL Olympics. Obviously you are not afraid of Virginia Woolf.

MT ur signature line is a big joke if u dont follow n tell others to think abt it

“A woman knows very well that, though a wit sends her his poems, praises her judgment, solicits her criticism, and drinks her tea, this by no means signifies that he respects her opinions, admires her understanding, or will refuse, though the rapier is denied him, to run through the body with his pen.” --Virginia Woolf

Stop kidding yourself.

Read my signature....and think about it :D

I agree fully with you Marco.

MT--and there you go insulting my children. Not very nice or polite for a so-called teacher. And my children go to DESS. Oh well, I suspect the new exam system will root such rude people out.

As I said before, there is a fine line between constructive criticism, voicing one’s opinion and bashing.

Constructive means to build up- to serve a purpose, it doesn't lash out and condemn.

That is what the judgmental “holier than thou” Qler’s are doing. They try to force their way of thinking on others - their sole purpose in saying something is to cast a judgment and walk off as if God himself just said it.

(Then they accuse you of being a troll/hater/basher/devil advocate/ uncivilized / ignorant/bigoted/uneducated/barbarian etc. just for voicing a different opinion and for standing by your values/principles in life.

They can't handle the truth when you call them out on their fake "righteousness.”)

Now to make a stop to all these inflaming threads which if anything are spreading hatred and resentment amongst the good people of QL.

Here is a good idea.

Dear Ql’ers every time you see an OP posting a thread that’s not for constructive criticism you don’t have to inflame it. Engaging in any kind of arguments with these trolls will just flame the work even more.

If you see a post that is flame please report it, don't retaliate.

Constructive criticism involves you giving ways to improve on weak points.

Please don't mistake it for flame.

Lastly. I’m truly glad and honored to be given the opportunity to live and work in Qatar.

And I have nothing but love and respect for the good and decent people of Qatar.

Cheers,

I don't have to explain myself to you 2020.

& Yes I agree with you for once...Thank God your children are not at my school if they have you as a parent, teaching them their morals and behaviour.

which you spend on QL rather than preparing for lessons? I trust my children are not your school.

Thats the beauty of being a teacher here.....Specialist teachers take my children for almost 1hr a day then the breaks :)

Do you not work Bachus??

"...I show my gratitude by doing what I was hired to do and my employer shows its gratitude by paying me according to the terms we agreed..."

Well Said...nice and succinct.

If MT was a teacher shouldn't she be in class rather than QL all day?

I show my gratitude by doing what I was hired to do and my employer shows its gratitude by paying me according to the terms we agreed.

Uch be quiet 2020...."oh I hope you are not a teacher, oh I hope you dont teach your kids this ....

bla bla bla... you don't know me from Adam or how I do my job!

Gee's peace!!!

"...The fact that u got the job out of hundreds who applied if not more alone deserves a thank u for giving me the chance...or a thank God at least..."

I am all for thanking God for each and every small and big things he has provided us in this world.

I think we should thank God for getting us a good opportunity to work in Qatar. Also, I think Qataris should thank God for making their country rich and prosperous and for being born with a silver spoon.

However the question is whether we should thank Qatar or not for being employed in Qatar.

"...i doubt i can find benefits in terms of a work package and salary anywhere like the ones u get in the mid east and thats from someone who has actually worked in several countries..."

So thats the reason we came here. Imagine companies in Qatar paying the same salary what we get in India then no indian will be willing to work in Qatar.

Similarly for other nationalities. So the salary and perks are a means through which Qatar wants to attract talent (its not a CHARITY) to fuel its growth.

For ex. If Qatar wont pay the labourers from indian subcontinent more than they get in India they wont come to Qatar - then who will build the infrastructure required for 2022 ??

Hence IMHO we need to thank Qatar as much as Qatar needs to thank the expatriates and vice verca and we should respect each other and know that both are indispensable. If Qatar can find many more people like us then we can also find many more jobs in middle-east and out of middle-east because RIZQ giver is Allah (not Qatar).

"........insanity--Qatar has been very generous in modifying its laws to accommodate different cultures. If you want to see it as some cynical plot, then your choice...."

what I said is very straightforward and objective.

Let me repeat what I had said (and you can read my prev post again). Qatar has modified its laws to fuel growth for which it needs to attract and retain talent.

You are saying that Qatar has been generous, I am saying that it has no other option if it has to survive in global economy.

Now can you further enlighten me on what you meant by "If you want to see it as some cynical plot" ???

nomerci--we should all be grateful for the opportunities given to us just as a good employer should be grateful to workers who do I good job. I thank those who work for me when a project is completed if the job done was good. I thanked my tutors in university for teaching me and the university for offering me a place--even though they were salaried faculty and my place was paid for.

MT--mutually beneficial for who? Are the markets and needs truly the same? While many applied for you job, how many jobs were you offered?

MT--Nauru is a joke MT. Not unlike nomerci being from the Vatican (I assume she is not the Pope in Rome). I'm sorry you are not intelligent enough to see it. And I am sorry for the children you teach. I thought the education initiatives for better schools was working.

And what am I preaching MT? I am saying people need to respect their host country. This is how I behaved in yours.

@nomerci

The fact that u got the job out of hundreds who applied if not more alone deserves a thank u for giving me the chance...or a thank God at least...i doubt i can find benefits in terms of a work package and salary anywhere like the ones u get in the mid east and thats from someone who has actually worked in several countries

To say that gettin a job here doesnt deserve a thank u is worse than just bein ungrateful...u tell ur nanny thank u for caring for me when I was younger even tho u paid her....if gettin the job and gettin the salary u want is not worth thanking for then u might as well quit today cuz there aint no job in the whole world that doesnt deserve a thank u.!!!,..remember one thing....THERE R MANY WHO CAN DO WAT U DO BUT NOT A LOT WHO WOULD PAY U WAT WE PAY

No Flor, an employer, unless he does something "extra" to what is stated in the employment contract, is not entitled to a thank you.

Of course, we all are polite, well behaved people, so we will say "thank you" no matter what...the employee as well as the employer, that is.

"Are we expatriates supposed to be grateful to be "allowed " to work in Qatar? No, I think not, as Qatar has invited us to work for them. We get paid, some well, others not so well. It is a mutual agreement"

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/2771806#ixzz1qunQuYLM

not entitle for even a "thank you"? (since you work for your salary?, is that it)

check you previous comment!

Flor, who is ungrateful? Does talking about experiences one has had, even bad ones, make a person ungrateful?

And, what are we supposed to be grateful for to Qatar?

I believe this is a mutually beneficial situation.

so it's ok to be ungrateful?

Yeah okay 2020 as long as you have convinced yourself that you were being sarcastic.

"All people do on QL is bash bash bash bla bla bla..."

How bout respecting people yourself and practice what you preach.

Good Super Cool. I'm afraid it is a lost cause. Some people just want to be angry and tell others how to live.

insanity--Qatar has been very generous in modifying its laws to accommodate different cultures. If you want to see it as some cynical plot, then your choice.

MT--Surely you are not that dumb. Look up Nauru. The choice is sarcastic.

just so that there's no confusion cuz I see a lot of it on this post

Doha is no Utopia nor even one of the top 20 or 30 or 50 places to live or anything...I'll try to make this as simple as I can just so that I can get the point across....I hope

EVERY SOCIETY has its good point and its bad points....and the residents of those societies are those who:

1) like the good points enough to make them stay

2) Can "tolerate" the bad points that come about

if ur voicing ur opinion about something....ANYTHING whether good or bad...and u take those 2 points in mind, then I assure u it's impossible to offend anyone...if whatever it is that u dislike is something u ABSOLUTELY cannot tolerate in any way or form then u'd be making the right to decision to leave....an example In some villages in Africa they say hi by spitting in ur face....if u absolutely CANNOT STAND IT then u aught to make sure u NEVER go there

If on the other hand it's something u dont like but it's not enough to get in the way of u living living somewhere then u can talk about it and blow off steam as much as u can...an example....Rush Hour in some major cities around the world...but make sure that identify with those who dont mind it so u dont come around as hateful or arrogant...and the SIMPLEST way of doin so is offer a solution and be constructive about ur criticism

an example of coming across as hateful

"They" banned alcohol at Pearl those idiots r gonna lose a lot of customers, who would even go there now!!!

an example of a constructive one

"It's sad to see a place like Pearl lose customers because of a minor issue like Alcohol...maybe that can have Alcohol free days as an option or dry regions of Pearl"

I HOPE now the picture is clear and yall can stop fighting cuz it aint accomplishing ANYTHING besides giving u a massive headache only a good shisha can cure lol

Yalla group hug everybody!!!!!

Lot of noise in here.

1>There are "FEW" Asians who slander Westerners

2>There are "FEW" Westerners who slander Asians

3>There are "FEW" Asians and Westerners who complain about Qatar and Qataris.

Everywhere around .YOU may come across incidents/way of life which sometimes YOU cannot comprehend to be sane ,social or logical.

"EVERY WHERE THERE ARE UNWRITTEN LAWS" which if you follow might make your life little less stressful.

I say dont fight it - wine ,dine and sleep it off .

AND I LOVE BEEN HERE.

"...Qatar has been generous in recent years in modifying its laws to accommodate expatriates...."

I have been reading many posts and sentences like the above wherein it appears as if Qatar is doing a social service by employing expatriates. The reality is that Expatriates need Qatar as much as Qatar needs the expatriates. The development in Qatar is fueled by the expatriates and also we get paid for our work.

Qatar has modified its laws not because it is generous - it has modified (to whatever extent it has) because otherwise it won't get enough people to fuel their growth. If Qatar wants to become a global player it needs to attract and retain talent for which it needs expatriate friendly laws.

Lastly, if they are the hosts then we are the guests and it is the responsibility of the host to make guests as much comfortable as they can -:)

Lol thats basically what ive been saying the whole time but because someone else says it you agree with them LOL

BG: you need to understand not everyone is your enemy, you're always so defensive. Like NM has already stated, it's human nature to moan about what we don't like, it doesn't mean we expect changes, we just want to vent somewhere and that is why I say QL is a great place for it.

snessy it was abt bad mouthing n u already cleared it thanks a ton

i wish all were understanding as no merci

Well said NM

Well, against better knowledge, here are my 5 cents.

SOME people bash Qatar, yes, that is true. I do not endorse that.

Many people only speak about the experiences they had...for example, a person pushing in front of a queue, expecting to be served immediately because of who they are...now that is upsetting if it happens consistently...so people rant about it.

People being flashed at and being pushed off the road, that is upsetting and scary, so people rant about it.

Is it always Qataris doing this? No, it is not always Qataris. But it happens in Qatar.

Does it happen in other countries? It certainly does, Saudi being an example I know of personally.

Does it make a difference if it happens in other countries? No, I think not...people talk about what happens to them here in Qatar.

Are we expats supposed to be grateful to be "allowed " to work in Qatar? No, I think not, as Qatar has invited us to work for them. We get paid, some well, others not so well. It is a mutual agreement.

Do we, the expats, have the right to rant? I think it is not about any rights, it is a simple human need to talk about experiences, be they good or bad.

And y'all know what I think of how much sense it makes to rant and actually expect things to change.....unless, you are Qatari, of course.

BG: you don't get it! I may not like certain things about Qatar...the driving, the hypocrisy of selling alcohol but not allowing you to bring it into the country, the labourers and maids being mistreated, etc but it does NOT mean I hate the country. You interpret posts how you want to, but you don't actually understand what is written.

If we go along with your crazy reasoning, I am no longer earning money from Qatar, therefore I should be allowed to say what I like about the country?

u made it very clear a handful of people bad mouth abt Qatar , an opinion and bad mouthing u must b understanding better english than me :)

i m not earning from the west so only westerner can bad mouth i understand who is a racist now

Yes, my English is better than yours, but then again it's my first language so that should not be a surprise to you...You bad mouth the West constantly, but that doesn't mean I will do the same about India and everyone that comes from there. I understand you are racist but not all Indians are!

qatar isn't doing a favor for u neither qatar shld for u the ones who bad mouth

BG - read my post and UNDERSTAND it.

It shouldn't matter who pays your bills...everyone is allowed an opinion and it's on forums like Qatar Living, were we are given the opportunity to do so. You need to realise, Qatar isn't only doing us a favour, it works both ways.

its ur voice ur opinion on england ur the citizen and a western expat earning here bad mouths abt qatar is the same

a handful of people bad mouth Qatar thank u for bad mouthing the country which feeds u its all clear now

You're all flippin' crazy...a handful of people bad mouth Qatar so you attack ALL of the Western world and ALL of their people. How does that make it right? I don't like certain things about Qatar, but then again I don't like certain things about England - it doesn't mean I hate either country...The difference is, when I voice my opinion about England, I don't get accused of being racist nor do I get asked to leave!!

thank you MT if i wish u where my teacher i wld learn a lot from u :)

nice editing ;)

Super cool pls request those Qataris from now on if they dont like anything to go online forums n moan, abuse, criticize abt it that is the only solution as per some

Super cool - Then no one would live anywhere in the world. No where is perfect and no one will ever be 100% happy with every single thing in any country.

@korly

I would say the exact same thing to any Qatari in any forum....even Qataris live here by choice I do know Qataris who have PERMANENTLY relocated elsewhere...I dont see anything wrong with that....I like to think of it as "when I go anywhere my first goal is to embrace the society as a whole" not try to modify it or change in any way or form....with that in mind IF I am not prepared to absorb any society wherever that society is then I make sure to avoid it

I for one do not like asian food, if to me avoiding Asian food is a must then I wont be living in the far east nor seekin job opportunites there

Likewise IF there is something that ANY person expats or otherwise CANNOT live without and its not provided in Qatar then Qatar is a bad choice for them

Its not the complaining or blowing off steam that I dont get....I take a step further and say IF the person blowing off steam came her by choice....why would they subject him/herself to what they consider a bad choice?

lol he is clever only in physics :(

I have sent you a PM;-)

Well done LP...you are a clever pirate! :D

yeah the friendly bit is getting less and less unfortunately.

Every country has its problems and every person has the right to voice their opinions on a public forum.

2020 is from Nauru. Nauru is not Qatar.

i always miss the friendly part MT all i can see rants abt qatar's richness , water in qatar , furniture in qatar so many problems but i will stay here n rant for the sake of sun sand n sea

oh yeah silly me, I must just miss all these things and it must just go over my head.

People dont have 'problems' per-say BG...they have moans and gripes about the country they live in, so what! doesn't mean they want to get on a plane and leave. They want the freedom to speak their mind without being told off or judged unfairly by others.

QL is meant to be friendly community where people who live in Qatar can have adult conversations about real life issues.

This is Qatarliving - for people living in Qatar to abuse them , their culture and so on ??

the mighty ones i know u always miss those comments MT

I have no problem with that - but then, don't you think that should apply to what seems to be the general topic of discussion? Bashing the west?

This is Qatarliving - when I last looked that meant a website for people living in the state of Qatar - that means that like your many Arabic forums, where we know, due to people like Genesis discussing these matter, there is a lot of critism of Qatar and Qatari issues , why should QL be any different when critisizing?

Why, when people talk about local issues, like driving, banning of pork or liquor or even the discussion on Labour laws and practices, do people always jump in to say how much worse it is else where - especially the west?

I have seem far to many threads end up in slagging matches (deleted by mod)

I say it again... This is Qatarliving - for people living in Qatar - this site is for the discussion of things happening in Qatar - Not the US or UK - it'd be called US/UKliving if it was!

Who have said they have problems with this country BG??

why do ppl stay here when they have so many problems with this country can sumone enlighten me pls

I am here because I was head-hunted by a local family to take care of their children.

I am Australian by birth and have lived in more countries you could ever count on your 2 hands and feet due to my late father's career.

If indeed it is true as you say that the westerners start the bashing - I suggest you take a look at your compatriots who it usually gets aimed at - and why that it? Because someone has invaribly stoked the fire - People react to flames. You should know that by now!!!

Yeah yeah 2020....your post really sounded sarcastic lol im sure you were! no more like yOu thought it was aimed at you or attacking you as you like to put it.

Don't you feel silly, so you try to make me look like the silly one.

laughable!

@Korly

One can only speak from experience...his or her own...I cannot bring up some random country that Ive never been to and make up my opinion based on google search hehehe

Let those who have lived in australia or canada or China or anywhere else speak about it...what do u say?

I was being sarcastic before. I thought as someone from Britain you would have picked that up!

Sorry are you Qatari 2020....have we not had this discussion?

Korly--Because its usually the British and American QLers who are doing the bashing. This thread is a good example.

I am here because this is my country, and I chose not to remain in the US after my education. Are you here because your first choice country rejected you?

@Baburao....It happens Im sure...but they "usually" dont go to a place where they dont like how the society works

Everyone who lives anywhere lives ther by choice

who wants the visas r u an immigrant too korly even if given for free i wldnt take it ?

MT--I did live and study in the UK and US for years. And I never complained like this. I enjoyed the adventure, accepted the differences that I did not like, and learned a great deal.

Exactly SC. But Fubar just doesn't see it. It's the one-size fits all attitude.

maybe if they lived there and there was a usliving and ukliving :P

@Fubar

The true lesson is...EVERY COUNTRY has good and bad....and to assume that u CANNOT learn from EVERY SOCIETY is just plain and utter intolerance

To assume that wats good in one society is just as good for another is an example of being greatly closed minded...ppl r different and they will always be....it makes the world a better place not a worse one

do the Qataris go n rant on online forum if they dont like anything in the US or UK :(

Well you shouldn't. People will interpret what you say a different way so if it is not what you meant then simply say so. Instead of creating animosity and cry that your being attacked.

MT--anytime someone puts false words in my mouth and criticizes me for them, I see that as an attack

And the thread returns to it's logical conclusion:

A holier than thou arrogant wannabe telling us all how other countries are worse than Qatar and we could all learn a lesson from Qatar.

Ironic that it's on the holier than thou thread.

Good work :-)

Fubar--are you saying that if the good people of Alabama suddenly became a 1/6 minority there would be not killing or riots? ROFL. It's not my generalization. It's a fact. The US and UK both have terrible histories of xenophobia and racism when it comes to immigrants. Or haven't you noticed?

And all rulers ultimately rule by the consent of their people Fubar. And if you think the US and UK are true democracies whose governments function for the benefit of the majority of their citizens, you are living in a fantasy land. I'd explain it to you, but "I can't without pointing out how stupid some people are."

no i just think we see things differently 2020...since in another thread you thought I was attacking you LOL

so that ur ppl n can come in more here

I was trying to write a response about how any normal person can see the difference between a constitutional monarchy and an absolute monarchy. But I can't without pointing out how stupid some people are.

And thanks 2020 for living up to the spirit of the thread - if something happened in a western country, there would be murders. Yeah, that's right buddy. Such an open mind about other countries. No room for generalizations in your myopic world view, is there?

You people need to get out more!

Then we have not been on the same threads MT, you are blind to your compatriots, or you have not been paying attention.

My point exactly Super Cool.

sorry about all the typos...typing from my cellphone after a long day at work is a bad idea lol

lol MT ur so innocent just as a lady in her abaya

@Fubar....the UK has democracy and a monarchy

U can have both sir

U cant say Qatar has a monarchy thus it doesnt have a democracy

Btw if Qatar had a complete democracy rest assured that the non-tolerant Qataris will makes sure that expats dont have alcohol or bars etc....but its the fact that we do have a monarchy that allows u the pleasure of clubin and bar hopping...some society cannot be operated under a complete democracy...a country like Nigeria would have eadily lost its rule and oil riches to Cannibals who make up a large number of the population their and u could have very well seen a president who is a Cannibal there

Fubar, there would be protests in and murders.

And the UK is monarchy in case you had not noticed. LOL.

Since being on QL, I can honestly say that I haven't been on one thread where the following happens..

It is when they add comments that attack Islam, all Qataris, all Arabs, etc. and call them barbarians and ignorant and misogynists...

A point that went by unnoticed

Like I said earlier those who r not open minded nor tolerant should probably not work overseas, not subject themselves to situations where their "Norm" is being questioned and just try to stick to their comfort zone.....aka...HOME...knowing first hand that there r of course Qataris who r neither open minded nor tolerant...we shouldn't forget that they ARE home so they did make the choice to stay in their comfort zone

Taking that in mind would make it understandable - not that I agree with them - to have a Qatari who is not tolerant being that they did stick to a culture where they like who society works....but it's some what strange to have an expat who is not tolerant cuz they chose this society knowing its short comings....locals who r not tolerant should stay home, which they r...but expats who r not tolerant to changing their norm shouldn't subject themselves to leaving home UNLESS they accept before hand that not everything will be great according to their standards

I lived about half of my life in the states....pretty much ALL of my adulthood....knowing before hand that not everything will be perfect by "Qatari" standards...BUT I subjected myself to that situation because I already accepted the differences and decided that I consider the differences "tolerable" otherwise I wouldnt have gone in the first place

Of course citizens of the US or the UK or any other democratic country wouldn’t react so well if their government did something they didn’t like. It’s because those countries are democracies, where the people have the power to tell governments when they are unhappy, and to kick them out if they aren’t doing a good job.

Comparing a monarchy to a democracy is pretty pointless in this sort of debate. Neither is better or worse, just different.

I agree Fathima, but there is also a line between constructive criticism and insulting one's hosts. No one is forced to come to Qatar, and Qatar has been generous in recent years in modifying its laws to accommodate expats.

Can you imagine the US or UK responding so well if its white citizens became a mere 1/6 of the population in just over a decade? I hate to even imagine it.

And then you have racists and bigots trying to tar everyone with the same brush just because of a rotten few. and worse when they try to disguise it all to appear as concern and good intentions!

Korly--Northing wrong with a poster writing, "I would like more restaurants that serve alcohol" or "I wish traffic was better because . . . " It is when they add comments that attack Islam, all Qataris, all Arabs, etc. and call them barbarians and ignorant and misogynists, etc. etc. for not following a specific Anglo-prescribed way of living. Such people clearly feel that they are being punished by living in Qatar and think their presence amongst such uncivilized people is a gift to them.

btw--my English is sufficient enough to earn degrees at both top UK and top US universities. I know the difference between constructive criticism and the cultural arrogance that is rooted in racism and imperialism.

Everyone has the right to their own opinions. Believing themselves to be right, even defending their postures from opposition and debating their opinions is all perfectly acceptable and makes QL certainly a lively happening place to be.

What sucks is when certain users tend to get all foul mouthed, insulting and rude when another contradicts them. I mean whatever happened to respecting others'views and agreeing to disagreeing? Do we really have to abandon all civility just cos another thinks we are wrong? Besides no one is infallible and what you may think is right and true today may turn out to be not quite what you thought.So rather than then been utterly humiliated then better to always have a humble, well mannered approach in any situation.

anyone will fall in either, one way or anotehr. The problem is labeling those who differs in opinions against the majority as "stupid, tart, hat-starters or racist, etc etc.". Why can't anyone just respect "another's" point of view and resort to name-calling? And check out who these people are?

Far be it from me to discuss anyone's English on here, but I do believe alot of the "bashing" stems from non Native English speakers not understanding the context of post.

Sometimes they are tongue in cheek. Sometimes, for serious discussion. Some people post for interest sake, others post to debate.

I for one defend my right to make statements about any country in the world. Especially the ones I live, or have lived in. Those living with blinkers on, will only come down to earth with a huge bump when they get affected by things they turned a blind eye too.

There is an unbaised way to look at life - seeing the good and the bad - the people on here who actually start the bashing are the ones that will in no uncertain terms admit that Qatar ISN'T Utopia - They have this romantic notion that being loyal to Qatar and defending it to "verbal death" will get them some kind of reward and I can guarentee you without a doubt that it won't.

No one is asking them to diss Qatar in a nasty way - but debate the pros and cons of being here without getting on their high-horses and becoming defensive and making derogatory comments about others being "spoilt westerners" who come here as barbers and take all the top jobs.

It takes some getting used to when you grow up in an open democracy to move to a country where you need to be afraid to open your mouth in case the secret police are watching.

As for shops being closed on Fridays, which shops do you mean?

Have you ever tried to go to City Center or Villagio on a Friday?

Korly: There is a fine line between constructive criticism and bashing. Unfortunately many folks on this forum keep zigzagging back and forth between the two when ever it’s convenient.

You see 2020, that's where I think you are wrong. I don't see it as moaning - I see it as people having the right to express their views on things.

It won't make any difference, but they still have the right to say they'd like shops open on Fridays or being able to drink on the Pearl - although, aren't shops already open on Fridays? I have yet to see a thread on that topic, but anyway, its our right to express our views, but unfortunately, its misconstrued by many here as complaining, and then the attacks begin.

Why is it that certain people are threatened by people having their say and opinions? Again, it won't change anything, its just allowing people to release some steam.

It also doesn't mean that people hate Qatar - which everyone seems to think when an opinion is expressed.

Many arguments here would be alliviated if certain people would just keep still tongues in their heads and not try to impose their views on others, or use that old saying "If you don't like it leave."

When you are at home, and you complain about government laws you cannot change - is it not the same thing?

Yes, fair enough MT. It is in some people's disposition to complain wherever they are.

It is the constant glee at any shortcoming of Qatar that some express on QL that I object to.

Personally I don't moan about shops being closed on Fridays, or about the lack of alcohol. What I do moan about is the driving here and if people don't respect other peoples religions or cultures, which can happen in any country. It just so happens that I live here at the moment and it annoys me. There are plenty of things that annoy me about Scotland that I moan about but I still love the country.

Interesting post from supercool. Yes, it is a different breed of expat arriving from some countries that ten years ago--many coming as individuals forced to escape their own countries' bad economies rather than people with good companies looking for adventure. The latter are sometime bitter over their predicament and this affects their daily lives and attitudes. They also want/expect Qatar to change to meet their needs rather than embracing the differences in perspectives and cultures.

It is a shame, really. I spent a number of good years in the UK and USA and I never expected those countries to change their cultures to meet my needs. I did not complain about the free flow of alcohol or shops being open on Fridays; whereas on QL the Westerners complain about shops being closed on Fridays and the lack of alcohol. But then I was not forced from Qatar. I was away partly for the the adventure of it and so expected and accepted differences and learned from it.

There is a lot of bashing of other peoples countries and cultures. Also when people are curious about other peoples cultures or religions they get accused of merely bringing it up for no reason when really it is significant to the discussion.

Apart from that QL is a great place :)

Everyone uses a userID, so everyone is incognito.

-->This liberty gives some people the hype to act/say stupid things coz they're hiding behind a monitor/keyboard. The freedom to act/behave like a donkey's posterior hole is "adddictive" to some.

Hope I have made some sense...hahah

You stated that "...I don't believe I'm better than anyone else. I just want society to be a better and safer place for all people...."

There are 2 things:

1) To know and agree to what is correct (and what is wrong)

2) To follow and practise what is correct.

Both are important, however to practise what is correct we need to first realize what is correct.

So if someone is saying something which he feels is correct it does not mean that he himself is an angel.

Similarly to make a society a better place we all should agree to common principles which would make society a better place and it starts with ourselves and our family first.

This means that we should know what makes society better in the first place. If according to X doing something would make the society a better place however if Y disagrees then both cannot be correct.

Super Cool (: beautifully explained my bro/sis. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

a self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude is in reverse proportion to the loss of posters with a sense of humour.

I would say that as a Qatari, I think it’s expected actually...I would've been quite surprised if the number wasn't on the rise and let me tell u why...

With the changes happening in Qatar and the vast number of projects and job opportunities a "larger than usual" number of Expats is flowing into Qatar...Mostly being “Qualified Specialists”....but having job experience and life experience r not one and the same. One could be an amazing engineer who has been sheltered or rather consumed by his Career all his life...so he or she never had a chance to see what's out there and appreciate the beauty of "difference". Being a specialist in ur field on an international scale “usually – not always” means u haven’t had a chance to enjoy much of life.

The other part has to do with the economy...some ppl who r acquiring jobs in Qatar r forced into working overseas due to their financial burdens. So, they come into Qatar with a closed mind to begin with because they hate the fact that they r forced to not be home…as such they have a lack of any appreciation for anything that's different from their "Norm" because they didn’t come here to change it….they came here because they had to….so they choose to believe in one way and one system and reject all other ideas...The other day I read a post about Moustaches and why ppl have 'em...I don’t sport a moustache myself, but seriously TO EACH THEIR OWN!!!!

In the end I must say that for one to be open minded, he or she has to be open to new concepts, cultures and ideas...to be tolerant is to tolerate even that which u disagree with...and if ur not open minded nor tolerant it’s probably not the beast idea to work in another country...but that's just what I think

MarcoNandoz, Bravo!

people come and go. it's just life.

any idea wat happen to Doha Chap

You are right fubar. A smug, self righteous hypocrite is always eagerly waiting for others mistakes. Will never realize or admit to such an attitude. They are so busy pointing out the sins of others that they don't see the sin of Pride in themselves.

true taz y the holier than thous leave their richest country n come here just for the sake of sun sand n sea

"I just want society to be a better and safer place for all people."

Don't say that. The Holier Than Thous will come along and accuse you of hating Qatar and tell you how bad your own country is. Etc etc.

They will remind you that there is no crime in Qatar and that everything here is perfect.

Geddit?

I think consciously or sub-consciously, we ALL have a "holier than thou" side that "creeps out" when someone does something "odd or different" from the norm.

I hope that I don't. I don't believe I'm better than anyone else. I just want society to be a better and safer place for all people.

I initially thought it was return of Gérard Houllier!

i dont think there is need of blasphemy when ppl see the right they choose the right

Maybe because some don't like being told that this is the epicentre of paradise and to say otherwise is blasphemy!!!

Mr. You are new to this place. You will get used to it.

LP is the OP talking abt u , u naughty pirate

Then it must be a conspiracy, Chairboy.

I dont think it is a recent development or trend - the traits you describe have been around for a long time.

QL is the only place where someone listens to them.