with due respect... his first post was ok ... but he himself got into trouble by his second post which is full of wrong informations !
I will give you very simple example ! WE are not as intellectual as Senior Sunni Scholars in Most of the Sunni Countries ... they are more into history and reality of Islam ! Correct ?
If Shias are Non Muslims they why did Qatar/Saudia/UAE/Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Syria/Lebanon etc... allowed Shais to build Mosque and pray ? Why did they allow them do their religious processions specially during Holy moth of Muharram ? It means there is something these Senior Scholars (Mufti) knows which is true but cannot declare openly due to political reasons as I mentioned above and in other threads related to this topic!
i think if they decided to make sunna and shehaa two relogions like doroos and muslim and not two sectors it will be better in this case no everyone will have his own religoin. because now both are fighting about the idea"which islam is the correct one sunna or sheeaa"
People just copy paste the info. from so many unreliable sites and misguide others due to their lack of knowledge...
As he mentioned about Shai Kalama ... tell him to search and find if Holy Prophet(PBUH) said same Kalam what Shia recite today ? Shia follows exact sayings of Holy Prophet(PBUH)
As i mentioned in my earlier post that, after the death of holy Prophet(PBUH) few Muslims try to destroy his Family members Fatima,Ali, Hassan and Hussain. They all were Martyr by so called Leaders of those times just in Jealousy with His family member and keep their leadership for controlling Islam !
its_quddus :
Please goggle the facts before you post something you don't know... we are still following those leaders whose roots are from those leaders who Murdered the Family of Holy Prophet (PBUH). We are following BLINDLY to some of Islamic Scholars due to whom today people like Talibans are born...
Also Shai pray FIVE times a days as told by Holy Prophet not THREE times as you mentioned. Also placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating is not HARAM !! do some research on the Clay of Karbala then put your comments !
Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) .. Holy Prophet never prohibit during his Life.. So how can someone just impose his rules on Muta ...also Muta is clearly mentioned in Quran also!!
Get the facts thru reliable sources then put some intelligent comments which makes some sense not Hatred !
i have a book w/ me "ISLAM IN FOCUS", i will lend this to you, it is about the basic concept of islam and its application, very clear and easy to understand, just send me an email and i will dropby to you anytime.
Below is a website where you can find a few lectures by an islamic scholar on various religious topics in english (most are in urdu). I have listened to only Urdu ones but I think the english ones will also be good.
I would like to recommend you read a book by Keren armestrong " Mohamad, a prophet for our times"
Keren is a nun ( or ex nun , i get confused:)
she has a very solid understanding of the message of mohammad and islam, rapped in her overwhelming knowledge of christianity and juadism in her capacity as a nun, yielding a bueatifull outcome really....
Also if u like there is a movie called " the message" by the prominant syrian director Mostafa al akad starring Anthony quinn...
The message is a 3 hours movie that narrates the story of the rise of islam and mohhamd's message..
an even easier way to get some basic info:) possiblly more fun as well..
off course the movie doesnt cover even half the details, but it would be a good place to start in a fun way to know a little about islam..
if there is any way i can help, dont hesitate to ask..
Have a gr8 weekend:)
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
for your help and book recommendations - its a great help, im going to try to get down to Jairir this week and get them! Thank you again everyone no doubt i shall bug you all with more questions once i have started reading!
I do agree, but as I said it depend on individual.
The word "Allah" does indeed mean" God", but the imaged that the two words conjures up in the minds of its adherents is very different. To the christian, brought up on the Bible, God is the Creator and the Judge, but he is also love, as shown in the sacrifice of his son for rebel humanity. Humans must respond to this love, to be filled with his spirit, and do good works out of thanks for his goodness.
Allah, although referred to as merciful, does not extend grace to people, but imposes sets of rules and regulations upon his people, to which they must submit. He does not have a personal relationship with his people, but sent prophets from time to time to restate his laws. Good works are done as a sign of submission, and to earn his favour.
The Holy Bible teaches that God cannot be tempted by evil and neither tempts anyone with evil; evil being understood as referring to immorality and sin. James 1:13 (c.f. Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13)
Yet, the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:
If u can find someone to translate urdu to english below is the best resource to understand about the history of Islam from Adam, life of Prophet Mohammad PBUH, life of the 4 companions of Prophet Mohammad PBUH (Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, & Ali)
Christianity & Islam by Naser Al-Moghamis published by Darussalam
Life of the Prophet Mohammed by B. Salem Foad published by Goodword
I got them at Jarir Bookstore and they are very basic. This was good for me because I knew nothing whatsover about Islam prior to reading them. I then graduated onto more sophisticated books which I will be glad to tel you about. In the meantime, the above two books are a good place to start. Bear in mind though, that they are not entirely unbiased. There is an agenda in these books but I think for the most part they are pretty good.
There is a major difference in Hindu religion and Islam on the point you just mentioned.
"Each god depicts different fortune…. like one is for wealth… one is for knowledge… one is for health & long life… one is for removing obstacles in life and so on...sounds funny?? but its true in our country."
In islam, we have 99 names of Allah, Al-Raziq, Al-Shafay, Al-Qadir etc... all are corresponding to the properties you mentioned respectively. But in islam these are not different gods but different attributes of Allah. Allah is one and He gives u food, wealth, life, remove obstacles etc. What I need wealth from Allah i call Him in my prayers as "Ya Raziq", when i need health when I'm sick I call him in my prayers as "Ya Shafay" etc.
May Allah bless us and guide us to the right path! Aameen!
for helping to explain this - i think i understand! I think what would be good if for me to read some books on the subject - Richard could you let me know what you are reading please? That would be fasicinating. Im learning bits and pieces about the religon all the time but sometimes its so hard to place the bits together in my head, theres so many questions which i have which originate from snippets which people tell me! The main thing is i now know what the difference between sunni and shitis are so i can understand the news a bit better. Thank you so much
The arabic christians dont call GOD 'GOD' rather I think they also use the word ALLAH.
"If your number one goal is to make sure that everyone likes and approves of you, then you risk sacrificing your uniqueness and, therefore, your excellence."
Do you think Cristians have a different God to Muslims? You ask whether Christians call "their" God, Allah and you say no.
Christians call God, God. Because there is only one God, there is no room for confusion just the same as Muslims. If I was speaking in Arabic I would refer to God as Allah even though I am Christian. Christians and Muslims believe in one God and it is the same God/Allah.
I think the primary intension was to give a difference between Sunni and Shia, I understand we had already covered the points. No question for arguments on touchy subjects.. It’s all question of believe... But Neo has said that's correct... Allah is a perfect noun.. Does Christian called there God by Allah NO!!
We call him with different names in different religion… I am a Hindu… we have many Gods. Each god depicts different fortune…. like one is for wealth… one is for knowledge… one is for health & long life… one is for removing obstacles in life and so on...sounds funny?? but its true in our country.
What I believe is… GOD is a supreme power who controls this Universe.
Richard123, no further arguments on this coz this topic will go in different direction. The actual concern was to know the difference between sunni and shia. God is a common noun and and Allah is the proper noun. Like human, is a common known but neo, richard123, its_quddus is the proper noun. And I don't disagree on this that Jews, Christians and Muslims are worshipping same God "Allah".
Hussam wrote for example, "Allah is not a DIFFERENT GOD than that of the jews and the christians.."
This is correct. I have been studying Islam and have read several books published in Saudi and they confirm this. God is not just a general noun, God as worshipped by Jews and Christians is Allah. There is no difference.
And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (between right and wrong): There was a
chance for you to be guided aright.
Exodus 24:12
The Lord said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone, with the law and commands I have written for their instruction."
Qur'an 7:145
And We ordained laws for him [Moses] in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said): "Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts .
Deuteronomy 4:13
He declared to you His covenant, the Ten Commandments, which He commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
Every religion is having some similarities you cannot say that all religions convey the same massage. If you see the history of Hinduism you will realize, most of the God's are named by our angel’s names. Like in Islam we have Hawa-Ale-salam, they have Pavan Dev, who has a control on Air. But the massage from these religions is different. I saw so many Hindu guys, drinking the urine of Cow, and they believe that it’s a good thing. God will forgive there sins but if you think in reality you will noticed its all question of your believe. Believe in Allah, will give you more power.
Islam in my openion is much easier than it sometimes it is made to sound..
i think mulsims are very wrong is using muslim/arabic terms in explaining islam, seeing how these terms are totallay alien and ununderstandable 2 somoene with no arabic language background..
for example, Allah is not a DIFFERENT GOD than that of the jews and the christians..
Allah is GOd in arabic...
There is no fundemntal different in the tennants of islam and christianity and juadism, they all call for basically the same things..
the worship of God and the leading of a moral life on earth in pursuit of eternal happiness in the after life..
In my view, what distinicts islam from christianity( and christianity for juadism) is the amount of DETAIL ..
Juadism is summed up in 10 commandments...
Christianity built on these 10 commandments and elaborated on a huge range of issues..
Islam is the most detailed , discussing EVERYTHING, from what to eat to having sex to inheritance to how to conduct war and peace...
if u are intrested , you can bring together a few of your frineds who are also intrested in learning about islam, and may be we can all meet somewhere and i can try and adress some basic issues and have u ask whatever u might want to ask...
let me stress that i m in no way a scholar of islam, i m merely a muslim who happens to know a little about the religion, and i believe i m also capable of explaing it in a way that is understandable to english speaking people given my education and travels...
Take care and have a gr8 day
...
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
What I understand I wrote, this is very touchy subject and I don’t believe that I could be able to explain everything in brief and explany..bcz of short knowledge. I do agree on Dr. Israar Ahmad, I saw number of video's and listen audio cd's... I think this much of information is sufficient for Charmed to understand the basic things.. Apart from this if she is interested she can refer some good website's. May Allah forgive our sins..Aamin
its_quddus, it's again how we interpret it. According to Quran, who ever helps Allah (helping in Islam) is a friend of Allah. So if you say Ali wali-Allah there is no harm.
I give u an example, we pray a prayer which is also present in Quran "Rab-bana Aatina Fid-duniya Hasan-taoon Wa fil Akhiraati Hasan-taoon Waqina Azab-n-naar" now we sunni in most of the mosques extend it with "Waqina Azab-al-qabri, Waqina Azab-al-hashri, Waqina Azab-al-meezaan" which is not part of Quran, but Salfi people say this is bid-dat (Something added to Islam by ourselves and is not part of Islam) and is a sin (may Allah forgive us), but in fact whatever we are saying is a prayer.
I'm not a Shia and neither I'm leading Shia's community but I am just saying something which is part of a common sense that in their Kalima, the first part is exactly the same as of Sunni's Kalima, the other part is not denying the previous part.
The other thing is Kalima is not a sequence of words but the witness of something. Coz our prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was arabic and the belief and prayer is in arabic, doesn't mean that someone having a belief of a muslim and can't pronounse arabic should be considered as non-muslim.
It's a very long debate and forum is not the right place to discuss it. I would just end up my conversation that we should be more flexible in our thoughts and should have courage and patience to listen what other person is saying and try to satisfy him/her in the most decent way.
There are some audio cds/cassattes from Dr. Israar Ahmad discussing this Shia-Sunni issues and it broadens our minds. I would suggest one to listen it once. our knowledge is very limited, scholars have a great work of research prior to come to a conclusion.
charmed, normally sunni and shia are by blood, see it's all the belief, the moment u change ur belief with intensions, u belong to that class. very straight forward! There is nothing something like POPE in islam but we muslims believe that Jeasus is alive and He will be sent back to earth to lead Muslims near the dooms day.
Wudu- Abolution, being clean the way prophet Mohammad PBUH told inorder to perform Salat- (Muslim Prayer).
Ahaadith- Are the exact words of Prophet Mohammad PBUH noted down by the companions of Prophet Mohammad PBUH.
Don't buy Quran, coz it's not that easy to understand. Start discussing things with people who preach Islam. Normally people from Pakistan go to west and other countries to preach islam (called jamaat), you need to understand the basics first. InshaAllah once u build ur basics it'll become easier for you to understand what is islam and what Allah says to us.
The moment you accept Islam, Allah clears all your previous sins like you just born today, and if you die that day you'll go to heaven.
i think in understand in a way! It sounds very complicated, does the differences between shia and sunni run with the family lines, or country lines ? Can someone choose wether to be shia or sunni? I have a few more questions now thou! Is there a leader of the muslim religon who is alive today - you know like the pope? What is wudu,salat and ahaaith? i really want to learn more about the muslim religon i find it rather hard to understand, i find the whole religon subject fasicinating, and i belive you have to understand people religion in order to understand them - i often toy with the idea of buying a copy of the quran in english to see if that helps my understanding, would it confuse me, would i be able to understand it? Many thanks for your replys so far - its good of people to take the time out to help me with my knowledge!
Kalima.. the political leaders has changed the entire meaning of Kalima..Without believing in Allah,Prophet Mohd, and Quran, you are not muslim at all. According to Shia's the Kalima is....
THE SHAHADAH: THE DECLARATION OF FAITH
La iláha il Alláh, Muhammadan Rasúl Alláh, Alíyun Walí-Alláh, Wasíyu Rasulillah, wa Khalífa tuhu bila fasl.
There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh, 'Alí is the Friend of Alláh. The Successor of the Messenger of Alláh And his first Caliph.
Here the believe difference comes, you cannot consider them as a muslim, if the declined to accept the Kalma Shahdah.
charmed, its_quddus has explained it very nicely and there is no confusion at all (in order to understand the difference).
besides this one should always keep in mind that the basic definition of a muslim (no matter sunni or shia) is the first Kalima of belief that "There is no one to be worshiped except Allah and Mohammad (Peace & Blessings be Upon Him) is Allah's Prophet.
If some muslim denies Allah's words (Quran) or disagrees to the sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), he indirectly denies the original belief so he/she can't be a muslim. But differences in Shia and Sunni are very vage and extremely hard to reach to the roots to identify that someone is denying Allah or His prophet Mohammad (PBUH).
May Allah grant us the intelligence to understand the truth (Aameen).
On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer, they perform wudu and salat differently including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating. They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five. The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh). Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored. Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis. Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and is now being promoted in Iran by an unlikely alliance of conservative clerics and feminists, the latter group seeking to downplay the obsession with female virginity which is prevalent in both forms of Islam, pointing out that only one of the Prophet's thirteen wives was a virgin when he married them.
Both Sunni and Shia Muslims share the most fundamental Islamic beliefs and articles of faith. The differences between these two main sub-groups within Islam initially stemmed not from spiritual differences, but political ones. Over the centuries, however, these political differences have spawned a number of varying practices and positions which have come to carry a spiritual significance.
The division between Shia and Sunni dates back to the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and the question of who was to take over the leadership of the Muslim nation. Sunni Muslims agree with the position taken by many of the Prophet's companions, that the new leader should be elected from among those capable of the job. This is what was done, and the Prophet Muhammad's close friend and advisor, Abu Bakr, became the first Caliph of the Islamic nation.
The word "Sunni" in Arabic comes from a word meaning "one who follows the traditions of the Prophet."
On the other hand, some Muslims share the belief that leadership should have stayed within the Prophet's own family, among those specifically appointed by him, or among Imams appointed by God Himself.
The Shia Muslims believe that following the Prophet Muhammad's death, leadership should have passed directly to his cousin/son-in-law, Ali. Throughout history, Shia Muslims have not recognized the authority of elected Muslim leaders, choosing instead to follow a line of Imams which they believe have been appointed by the Prophet Muhammad or God Himself. The word "Shia" in Arabic means a group or supportive party of people. The commonly-known term is shortened from the historical "Shia-t-Ali," or "the Party of Ali." They are also known as followers of "Ahl-al-Bayt" or "People of the Household" (of the Prophet).
Hope this information will make understanding the difference between Sunni vs Shia :-) Have a great day!!
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with due respect... his first post was ok ... but he himself got into trouble by his second post which is full of wrong informations !
I will give you very simple example ! WE are not as intellectual as Senior Sunni Scholars in Most of the Sunni Countries ... they are more into history and reality of Islam ! Correct ?
If Shias are Non Muslims they why did Qatar/Saudia/UAE/Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Syria/Lebanon etc... allowed Shais to build Mosque and pray ? Why did they allow them do their religious processions specially during Holy moth of Muharram ? It means there is something these Senior Scholars (Mufti) knows which is true but cannot declare openly due to political reasons as I mentioned above and in other threads related to this topic!
[img_assist|nid=53652|title=|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=|height=0]
i think if they decided to make sunna and shehaa two relogions like doroos and muslim and not two sectors it will be better in this case no everyone will have his own religoin. because now both are fighting about the idea"which islam is the correct one sunna or sheeaa"
This thread was going nice. Wonder what brought a more than one year old thread into surface.
Anyhow. It seems you are trying to play on words and comments. What was mentioned earlier was all true and people were not misguided.
I would recommend to join the debate tomorrow:
http://www.qatarliving.com/events/27apr2008/the-doha-debates-sunnishia-conflict
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
People just copy paste the info. from so many unreliable sites and misguide others due to their lack of knowledge...
As he mentioned about Shai Kalama ... tell him to search and find if Holy Prophet(PBUH) said same Kalam what Shia recite today ? Shia follows exact sayings of Holy Prophet(PBUH)
As i mentioned in my earlier post that, after the death of holy Prophet(PBUH) few Muslims try to destroy his Family members Fatima,Ali, Hassan and Hussain. They all were Martyr by so called Leaders of those times just in Jealousy with His family member and keep their leadership for controlling Islam !
its_quddus :
Please goggle the facts before you post something you don't know... we are still following those leaders whose roots are from those leaders who Murdered the Family of Holy Prophet (PBUH). We are following BLINDLY to some of Islamic Scholars due to whom today people like Talibans are born...
Also Shai pray FIVE times a days as told by Holy Prophet not THREE times as you mentioned. Also placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating is not HARAM !! do some research on the Clay of Karbala then put your comments !
Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) .. Holy Prophet never prohibit during his Life.. So how can someone just impose his rules on Muta ...also Muta is clearly mentioned in Quran also!!
Get the facts thru reliable sources then put some intelligent comments which makes some sense not Hatred !
[img_assist|nid=53652|title=|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=|height=0]
Excellent explanation. Many thanks.
These are two sects, but the basic teachings of Islam and how to live life are the same in my opinion.
Quddus u gave a nice description of shia sunni differences... Its really good.
IF EVERYONE WAS TO TAKE AN EYE FOR AN EYE, THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD'VE BEEN BLIND TODAY - MAHATMA GHANDI
Impossible is nothing.
ok dear, email me ur mobile no. and let me know when & where u want me to meet u for this book. [email protected]
apple
thats great i would love to meet up and borrow the book from you! Thats so sweet thank you for offering!
i have a book w/ me "ISLAM IN FOCUS", i will lend this to you, it is about the basic concept of islam and its application, very clear and easy to understand, just send me an email and i will dropby to you anytime.
regards,
apple
Below is a website where you can find a few lectures by an islamic scholar on various religious topics in english (most are in urdu). I have listened to only Urdu ones but I think the english ones will also be good.
http://is.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=2028&TitleName=Israr_Ahmed
hey charmed,
I would like to recommend you read a book by Keren armestrong " Mohamad, a prophet for our times"
Keren is a nun ( or ex nun , i get confused:)
she has a very solid understanding of the message of mohammad and islam, rapped in her overwhelming knowledge of christianity and juadism in her capacity as a nun, yielding a bueatifull outcome really....
Also if u like there is a movie called " the message" by the prominant syrian director Mostafa al akad starring Anthony quinn...
The message is a 3 hours movie that narrates the story of the rise of islam and mohhamd's message..
an even easier way to get some basic info:) possiblly more fun as well..
off course the movie doesnt cover even half the details, but it would be a good place to start in a fun way to know a little about islam..
if there is any way i can help, dont hesitate to ask..
Have a gr8 weekend:)
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
for your help and book recommendations - its a great help, im going to try to get down to Jairir this week and get them! Thank you again everyone no doubt i shall bug you all with more questions once i have started reading!
for a change this thread felt good to read.very cordial and mature.
happy heart
drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home
Its end of the day for me in India.. Bye for now :-) GOOD NIGHT!!
I do agree, but as I said it depend on individual.
The word "Allah" does indeed mean" God", but the imaged that the two words conjures up in the minds of its adherents is very different. To the christian, brought up on the Bible, God is the Creator and the Judge, but he is also love, as shown in the sacrifice of his son for rebel humanity. Humans must respond to this love, to be filled with his spirit, and do good works out of thanks for his goodness.
Allah, although referred to as merciful, does not extend grace to people, but imposes sets of rules and regulations upon his people, to which they must submit. He does not have a personal relationship with his people, but sent prophets from time to time to restate his laws. Good works are done as a sign of submission, and to earn his favour.
The Holy Bible teaches that God cannot be tempted by evil and neither tempts anyone with evil; evil being understood as referring to immorality and sin. James 1:13 (c.f. Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13)
Yet, the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:
This is the difference I understand!!
If u can find someone to translate urdu to english below is the best resource to understand about the history of Islam from Adam, life of Prophet Mohammad PBUH, life of the 4 companions of Prophet Mohammad PBUH (Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, & Ali)
Actually these are audio mp3s.
http://www.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=2033#Sh._Makki_Al-Hijazi_-_Qasas_ul_Anbiya_(Stories_of_the_Prophets)
Books I would recommend to start with are:
Christianity & Islam by Naser Al-Moghamis published by Darussalam
Life of the Prophet Mohammed by B. Salem Foad published by Goodword
I got them at Jarir Bookstore and they are very basic. This was good for me because I knew nothing whatsover about Islam prior to reading them. I then graduated onto more sophisticated books which I will be glad to tel you about. In the meantime, the above two books are a good place to start. Bear in mind though, that they are not entirely unbiased. There is an agenda in these books but I think for the most part they are pretty good.
There is a major difference in Hindu religion and Islam on the point you just mentioned.
"Each god depicts different fortune…. like one is for wealth… one is for knowledge… one is for health & long life… one is for removing obstacles in life and so on...sounds funny?? but its true in our country."
In islam, we have 99 names of Allah, Al-Raziq, Al-Shafay, Al-Qadir etc... all are corresponding to the properties you mentioned respectively. But in islam these are not different gods but different attributes of Allah. Allah is one and He gives u food, wealth, life, remove obstacles etc. What I need wealth from Allah i call Him in my prayers as "Ya Raziq", when i need health when I'm sick I call him in my prayers as "Ya Shafay" etc.
May Allah bless us and guide us to the right path! Aameen!
for helping to explain this - i think i understand! I think what would be good if for me to read some books on the subject - Richard could you let me know what you are reading please? That would be fasicinating. Im learning bits and pieces about the religon all the time but sometimes its so hard to place the bits together in my head, theres so many questions which i have which originate from snippets which people tell me! The main thing is i now know what the difference between sunni and shitis are so i can understand the news a bit better. Thank you so much
The arabic christians dont call GOD 'GOD' rather I think they also use the word ALLAH.
"If your number one goal is to make sure that everyone likes and approves of you, then you risk sacrificing your uniqueness and, therefore, your excellence."
Do you think Cristians have a different God to Muslims? You ask whether Christians call "their" God, Allah and you say no.
Christians call God, God. Because there is only one God, there is no room for confusion just the same as Muslims. If I was speaking in Arabic I would refer to God as Allah even though I am Christian. Christians and Muslims believe in one God and it is the same God/Allah.
I think the primary intension was to give a difference between Sunni and Shia, I understand we had already covered the points. No question for arguments on touchy subjects.. It’s all question of believe... But Neo has said that's correct... Allah is a perfect noun.. Does Christian called there God by Allah NO!!
We call him with different names in different religion… I am a Hindu… we have many Gods. Each god depicts different fortune…. like one is for wealth… one is for knowledge… one is for health & long life… one is for removing obstacles in life and so on...sounds funny?? but its true in our country.
What I believe is… GOD is a supreme power who controls this Universe.
no argument then. We agree
Richard123, no further arguments on this coz this topic will go in different direction. The actual concern was to know the difference between sunni and shia. God is a common noun and and Allah is the proper noun. Like human, is a common known but neo, richard123, its_quddus is the proper noun. And I don't disagree on this that Jews, Christians and Muslims are worshipping same God "Allah".
Hussam wrote for example, "Allah is not a DIFFERENT GOD than that of the jews and the christians.."
This is correct. I have been studying Islam and have read several books published in Saudi and they confirm this. God is not just a general noun, God as worshipped by Jews and Christians is Allah. There is no difference.
:-) Allah the most merciful, the most powerful, creator of heaven and Hell....
Qur'an 2:53
And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (between right and wrong): There was a
chance for you to be guided aright.
Exodus 24:12
The Lord said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone, with the law and commands I have written for their instruction."
Qur'an 7:145
And We ordained laws for him [Moses] in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said): "Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts .
Deuteronomy 4:13
He declared to you His covenant, the Ten Commandments, which He commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
Every religion is having some similarities you cannot say that all religions convey the same massage. If you see the history of Hinduism you will realize, most of the God's are named by our angel’s names. Like in Islam we have Hawa-Ale-salam, they have Pavan Dev, who has a control on Air. But the massage from these religions is different. I saw so many Hindu guys, drinking the urine of Cow, and they believe that it’s a good thing. God will forgive there sins but if you think in reality you will noticed its all question of your believe. Believe in Allah, will give you more power.
Allah is not a translation of God in arabic.
Allah is the actual name of the creator of this universe, heaven and hell. God is a general noun that is used to for someone one worships.
Hey charmed,
Islam in my openion is much easier than it sometimes it is made to sound..
i think mulsims are very wrong is using muslim/arabic terms in explaining islam, seeing how these terms are totallay alien and ununderstandable 2 somoene with no arabic language background..
for example, Allah is not a DIFFERENT GOD than that of the jews and the christians..
Allah is GOd in arabic...
There is no fundemntal different in the tennants of islam and christianity and juadism, they all call for basically the same things..
the worship of God and the leading of a moral life on earth in pursuit of eternal happiness in the after life..
In my view, what distinicts islam from christianity( and christianity for juadism) is the amount of DETAIL ..
Juadism is summed up in 10 commandments...
Christianity built on these 10 commandments and elaborated on a huge range of issues..
Islam is the most detailed , discussing EVERYTHING, from what to eat to having sex to inheritance to how to conduct war and peace...
if u are intrested , you can bring together a few of your frineds who are also intrested in learning about islam, and may be we can all meet somewhere and i can try and adress some basic issues and have u ask whatever u might want to ask...
let me stress that i m in no way a scholar of islam, i m merely a muslim who happens to know a little about the religion, and i believe i m also capable of explaing it in a way that is understandable to english speaking people given my education and travels...
Take care and have a gr8 day
...
http://hasous.spaces.live.com
"missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build." Anwar Sadat
Wow thanks charmed and guys, I've been wondering for awhile about this myself. :D
What I understand I wrote, this is very touchy subject and I don’t believe that I could be able to explain everything in brief and explany..bcz of short knowledge. I do agree on Dr. Israar Ahmad, I saw number of video's and listen audio cd's... I think this much of information is sufficient for Charmed to understand the basic things.. Apart from this if she is interested she can refer some good website's. May Allah forgive our sins..Aamin
its_quddus, it's again how we interpret it. According to Quran, who ever helps Allah (helping in Islam) is a friend of Allah. So if you say Ali wali-Allah there is no harm.
I give u an example, we pray a prayer which is also present in Quran "Rab-bana Aatina Fid-duniya Hasan-taoon Wa fil Akhiraati Hasan-taoon Waqina Azab-n-naar" now we sunni in most of the mosques extend it with "Waqina Azab-al-qabri, Waqina Azab-al-hashri, Waqina Azab-al-meezaan" which is not part of Quran, but Salfi people say this is bid-dat (Something added to Islam by ourselves and is not part of Islam) and is a sin (may Allah forgive us), but in fact whatever we are saying is a prayer.
I'm not a Shia and neither I'm leading Shia's community but I am just saying something which is part of a common sense that in their Kalima, the first part is exactly the same as of Sunni's Kalima, the other part is not denying the previous part.
The other thing is Kalima is not a sequence of words but the witness of something. Coz our prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was arabic and the belief and prayer is in arabic, doesn't mean that someone having a belief of a muslim and can't pronounse arabic should be considered as non-muslim.
It's a very long debate and forum is not the right place to discuss it. I would just end up my conversation that we should be more flexible in our thoughts and should have courage and patience to listen what other person is saying and try to satisfy him/her in the most decent way.
There are some audio cds/cassattes from Dr. Israar Ahmad discussing this Shia-Sunni issues and it broadens our minds. I would suggest one to listen it once. our knowledge is very limited, scholars have a great work of research prior to come to a conclusion.
charmed, normally sunni and shia are by blood, see it's all the belief, the moment u change ur belief with intensions, u belong to that class. very straight forward! There is nothing something like POPE in islam but we muslims believe that Jeasus is alive and He will be sent back to earth to lead Muslims near the dooms day.
Wudu- Abolution, being clean the way prophet Mohammad PBUH told inorder to perform Salat- (Muslim Prayer).
Ahaadith- Are the exact words of Prophet Mohammad PBUH noted down by the companions of Prophet Mohammad PBUH.
Don't buy Quran, coz it's not that easy to understand. Start discussing things with people who preach Islam. Normally people from Pakistan go to west and other countries to preach islam (called jamaat), you need to understand the basics first. InshaAllah once u build ur basics it'll become easier for you to understand what is islam and what Allah says to us.
The moment you accept Islam, Allah clears all your previous sins like you just born today, and if you die that day you'll go to heaven.
i think in understand in a way! It sounds very complicated, does the differences between shia and sunni run with the family lines, or country lines ? Can someone choose wether to be shia or sunni? I have a few more questions now thou! Is there a leader of the muslim religon who is alive today - you know like the pope? What is wudu,salat and ahaaith? i really want to learn more about the muslim religon i find it rather hard to understand, i find the whole religon subject fasicinating, and i belive you have to understand people religion in order to understand them - i often toy with the idea of buying a copy of the quran in english to see if that helps my understanding, would it confuse me, would i be able to understand it? Many thanks for your replys so far - its good of people to take the time out to help me with my knowledge!
Kalima.. the political leaders has changed the entire meaning of Kalima..Without believing in Allah,Prophet Mohd, and Quran, you are not muslim at all. According to Shia's the Kalima is....
THE SHAHADAH: THE DECLARATION OF FAITH
La iláha il Alláh, Muhammadan Rasúl Alláh, Alíyun Walí-Alláh, Wasíyu Rasulillah, wa Khalífa tuhu bila fasl.
There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh, 'Alí is the Friend of Alláh. The Successor of the Messenger of Alláh And his first Caliph.
Here the believe difference comes, you cannot consider them as a muslim, if the declined to accept the Kalma Shahdah.
charmed, its_quddus has explained it very nicely and there is no confusion at all (in order to understand the difference).
besides this one should always keep in mind that the basic definition of a muslim (no matter sunni or shia) is the first Kalima of belief that "There is no one to be worshiped except Allah and Mohammad (Peace & Blessings be Upon Him) is Allah's Prophet.
If some muslim denies Allah's words (Quran) or disagrees to the sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), he indirectly denies the original belief so he/she can't be a muslim. But differences in Shia and Sunni are very vage and extremely hard to reach to the roots to identify that someone is denying Allah or His prophet Mohammad (PBUH).
May Allah grant us the intelligence to understand the truth (Aameen).
Practical Differences
On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer, they perform wudu and salat differently including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating. They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five. The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh). Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored. Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis. Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and is now being promoted in Iran by an unlikely alliance of conservative clerics and feminists, the latter group seeking to downplay the obsession with female virginity which is prevalent in both forms of Islam, pointing out that only one of the Prophet's thirteen wives was a virgin when he married them.
Both Sunni and Shia Muslims share the most fundamental Islamic beliefs and articles of faith. The differences between these two main sub-groups within Islam initially stemmed not from spiritual differences, but political ones. Over the centuries, however, these political differences have spawned a number of varying practices and positions which have come to carry a spiritual significance.
The division between Shia and Sunni dates back to the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and the question of who was to take over the leadership of the Muslim nation. Sunni Muslims agree with the position taken by many of the Prophet's companions, that the new leader should be elected from among those capable of the job. This is what was done, and the Prophet Muhammad's close friend and advisor, Abu Bakr, became the first Caliph of the Islamic nation.
The word "Sunni" in Arabic comes from a word meaning "one who follows the traditions of the Prophet."
On the other hand, some Muslims share the belief that leadership should have stayed within the Prophet's own family, among those specifically appointed by him, or among Imams appointed by God Himself.
The Shia Muslims believe that following the Prophet Muhammad's death, leadership should have passed directly to his cousin/son-in-law, Ali. Throughout history, Shia Muslims have not recognized the authority of elected Muslim leaders, choosing instead to follow a line of Imams which they believe have been appointed by the Prophet Muhammad or God Himself. The word "Shia" in Arabic means a group or supportive party of people. The commonly-known term is shortened from the historical "Shia-t-Ali," or "the Party of Ali." They are also known as followers of "Ahl-al-Bayt" or "People of the Household" (of the Prophet).
Hope this information will make understanding the difference between Sunni vs Shia :-) Have a great day!!