Why there is Wage discrimination in Qatar (Middle East)...
The topic of salary has always been a touchy subject, especially when one of the key factors for remuneration is nationality.
Having lived 8 years of my life in Southeast Asia, 7 years in the Middle East, and the rest in the United States, I have had exposure to different environment and cultural settings and I feel that this diverse experience have made me understand why wage discrimination occurs in the Middle East.
The fact of matter is, wage discrimination in Qatar (and in the Middle East) happens because of a very simple economic concept that I'm sure most of you are familiar with: SUPPLY & DEMAND.
The Wage market is the reason why nationality becomes a very influential determinant on how much a person earns here in Qatar.
To put it in perspective, a Western European accounting professional with 5 years of relevant experience taking up a senior staff role with a leading Finance and Banking organization might demand a total salary package of 30,000 QR/month.
Now an accounting professional from Southeast Asia with the same relevant experience taking up the exact position will be satisfied with 12,000 QR/month package.
Even if both have CPA's and are similarly qualified for the same role, the European national will be earning more than twice as much as their Asian counterpart.
The difference in wage demand occurs because of the home country's GDP per capita, opportunities (abundance or lack of it), and overall economic situation. Someone coming from the United States who is able to earn $4000/month after-tax in the US would be inclined to accept an offer in the Middle East only if she/he is offered at least $4000 plus a salary premium. A professional from Asia, who is able to only take home a monthly income of $700 will be happy with a salary of $2000 in the Middle East. And employers will pay $4000+ and $2000, respectively, due to the difference in nationality.
In the United States, such wage discrimination would spur litigation from the Equal Opportunity Employment Opportunity Comission (EEOC).
http://www.eeoc.gov/abouteeo/overview_practices.html
I believe that the only way that nationality wage discrimination will be eliminated here in the Middle East is if everyone, whether from UK Philippines, or Lebanon (regardless of nationality), starts demanding similar wages. But we all know that because of the different economic situations in expats' respective home countries, this is unlikely to occur in the near future.
On a side note, non-Western professionals with very strong "leverage" and proactive knowledge of their market value are able to earn as much as (or even more than) their Western counterparts, although I would like to reserve this discussion in another forum.
For now, I am very interested to know your thoughts and opinions on wage discrimination in Qatar with regards to SUPPLY and DEMAND and economic situation as the reason for it.
I know it is used frequently - still does not make it appropriate. Never say something about a staff member that you would not say to their face.
Another saying - At the end of the day... what do I care - each day that passes is a day less to go. :)
Ivanhoe, I agree with the lack of freedom to move jobs and have suffered from that myself.
Don't be so touchy about the "Pay peanuts and get monkeys", it's not used just in HR but by many non-HR people and isn't intended to target a particular group. It has been used for years.
I assume from the lack of comment that you agree with the other facts.
Qatar is racist in some ways but not all issues are down purely to race.
By the way, on a drilling rig, there is what is internationally known a "monkey board" at the top of the rig. In Qatar, the locals objected to the term as they considered they were being called "monkeys".
Just because a bunch of HR use it, makes it fine to use? Monkey see, monkey do...
Most of my concerns are how racist this place is and how it is accepted by Arabs and Western Expats. I would love to see a pure supply and demand, level playing field, situation - but you need freedom of movement for that :)
QP had only one set of scales (and as far as I know still have). The WIA was introduced as a very small inducement to attract Western staff who they just could not recruit.
As far as I am aware, the housing allowance remains standardised for all staff. What upset many staff (in particular asians) was thet they had to produce documents to prove they were paying the full allowance for good accommodation. They were therefore unable to pocket the difference between the allowance and rent aactually paid
It isnt fair that the package should be less for housing just becasue you are from India or similar, I think at the end of day the companies just think "oh there standard of living is poorer there than here so what"
Actually that is the reason really. Don't really agree with it.
Anyway one day, as I have said before on another thread, wage parity will be such that Indian and Fillipinos won't have to come here to earn better money as it will be ok to stay in thir country with thir families.
Sooner rather than later I hope, the quicker we eradicate world poverty the better.
Then Qataris and US can wash our own cars, boo :(
I am sorry to say that when QP paid the same to all nationalities (pre WIA in 1992) and in the days when either accommodation was provided or a sizeable allowance (permitting rental of a good sized independent villa) was paid, a vast majority of Senior Asian staff opted for the allowance.......then rented a cheap flat and pocketed the difference.
They therefore discriminted against themselves!
But that isn't what you said.
The monkey analogy I'm sure wasn't meant in an insulting way, it's a common phrase in the compensation field of HR.
A lot of your comments are also now relating to implementation of contract.
Drake,
I don't know whether that is a genuine question or whether there is a hint of sarcasm in that comment.
But the answer to that question is not that simple indeed, I must admit.
The answer is yes and no.
Most Asian countries are made up of people living below the poverty line.
However, there is a bustling middle class in most of these countries and it is this middle class that makes up a larg part of the expat 'professionals'.
The same is not true for labourers from these countries.
However, there are exceptions. I am aware of a number of individuals who are working in the semi-skilled category but are living on a piece of heaven in a fantastic abode back home.
In any case, it does not justify discrimination on living standards. At least not in my books.
I heard in PDO, Oman they've revised the pay-structure whereby westerners and asians were paid same for their grade.
There is no separate western allowance.
It might take a few years to be implemented here in Qatar.
Do asians live in large, clean, independent homes back home, as Westerners do? If so, then yes they do deserve this here also.
As an Indian professional willing to go back home at the end of my career I am willing to accept the fact that pay scales are different because of economic factors back home.
What is difficult to digest is the fact that living allowances are not on par for all nationalities.
Is it justified to pay different housing and food allowances for Asians and Europeans.
I keep reading posts from Asians trying to find cheap accommodation in the 3000 to 7000 QR range.
The range is totally different for Europeans.
Why this severe difference in living standards?
Don't Asians deserve to live in large, clean, independent homes?
I don't believe that economic factors back home are the only factors guiding pay scales.
Fairness would be if everyone here was paid the same for the same job, and if the wages were on par with the cost of living here...which means that we should all be making about 30,000 QAR a month. I say we push for this.
I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart
If an Indian could earn the same amount of money at home as they do here they would stay in India. If I could have earned more in London then I would have stayed there. In a free market ecnonmy labour goes where its best paid and needed.
I don't agree with the discrimination AT ALL. I think its unfair and in the case of labourers and maids I think the its also immoral how much they get paid.
In my case as I say I was offered more here than London, in total package terms so I took the job.
i know some of it is, maybe even a lot, but it goes beyond that.
i work in finance so let me give you an example based on my experience looking for work in the ME.
i have seen many postings for accounting/finance managers over the last 6 months (which is the level i was looking for). for those who don't work in finance, an accounting manager can be many things. i came across some postings where the employer was looking for an indian applicant. the position itself was managing a team of accounting clerks, taking care of all the journal entries and maintaining the general ledger. for such a position, excellent communications and organizational skills are not essential, and the level of problem-solving required is not top notch.
other accounting/finance manager positions i came across were paying far higher wages and they were looking for people with western education/experience. in these cases the candidate would be more of a partner to the business. he/she would need excellent communication skills as the person would have to deal with non-finance managers in the business (and senior managers in other countries), as well as superior multi-tasking/problem-solving/organizational etc. skills because in addition to taking care of the general ledger, the candidate would take charge of financial reporting, budgeting, analysis work, financial negotiations etc.
both were accounting managers and the westerner in the second position will be making more than the indian in the first.
i can't speak for other industries, but in finance titles mean nothing. an accounting manager making 10,000 might be getting what he deserves even though another accounting manager is making 25,000 because the two positions are nothing alike.
women in canada still don't receive equal wages for equal work, so i don't doubt that discrimination happens in the ME. but i think it is also the case that many westerners in the ME are working in more senior level positions that require skills that are not easily taught in one semester at school.
i find it hard to believe that a company will pay 50% more in wages to get a westerner if someone else will do the job for less. what i find more likely is that if the company is paying 50% more, then there is a reason for it. anyone who has ever interviewed will know that 2 people with identical resumes regarding education and work experience can end up being nothing alike when interviewed. problem-solving, multi-tasking, communication, negotiation, organization, etc. - these are the kinds of skills that the companies are most likely paying higher wages for. i'm not saying that westerners are the only people with such skills, in fact many westerners need work in these areas too, but my experience in egypt has led me to believe that the education system here pays no attention to these skills, and many companies don't help matters with their rigid structures that keep all of the decision-making power at the top of the pyramid.
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"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I
Lamea stated:
"i would hire the mechanic asking $10 and pay him $10 why bother with a westerner and an additional $90?? his skin colour is of no use to me!!!!"
So you support paying labourers peanuts? He's asking for $10 because that's all you'll pay him. I Qatar, that $10 he charges won't even feed him and put a roof over his head. But hey, you got cheap labour. Kinda sounds the same as what companies are doing here. So I guess you support discrimination Lamea as long as it benefits you.
A western mechanic would live an average middle class life at the rates he charges. If a mechanic in your country lives an average middle class life charging $10, there is no dispartity. They both get the required amount to maintain the same relative standard of living. This equation is also used here to determine wages according to home country.
I take it people missed me?
I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart
you back welcome need any drink water tea coffee or Nothing
Women get paid less then men in a similar position here, regardless of where there passport is from. I think the answer is that these people are just racist and sexist. Simple as that.
I feel your scorn and I accept it-Jon Stewart
1. Asians from the UK, USA etc get paid less than a 'white' westerner
2. People from the sub-continent get treated less than human, with appalling living conditions, with broken contracts which they cannot escape due to their sponsor holding their passports etc. Then there are the criminals in their home countries charging lots of money for them to come here, often loan sharking the money.
3. Dweller - I would pay a person a living wage regardless of skin colour, and give them a good quality of life while they live here. Just because they may come from slums does not mean you put them in slums here. I would pay what the business/industry can afford. There are a few people are getting very rich while the majority work for next to nothing.
If 60 White Western Expats had died of the heat here last year, there would have been a big outcry. Why not for the Nepalese - because people think that they do not matter - plenty more from where they come from?
And please, stop the Monkey analogy - these are humans with families to support, so respect them.
do u actually believe ALL the westerners are superior(in skill) to their asian counterparts? some maybe, not all.
he is getting five times more because the company is willing to pay him that amount because he is western. they wouldnt pay the same amount to an equally qualified asian even if he demanded it!!!
You Guys what are u talking about where are u taking this all way long.
some one said that the authorities are worried about this concept na no way.no one is worried at all. Depends on a firm and their Budget.than also from a place with way low per capita income or say low standard.
its all about education Lamea u know better Pak education way behind its time got no Value wana ask me more about that sure do welcome.
the major thing is A western employee or worker is equal to 4 asian employee.
The place where i work am at the top most office with all the knowledge one needs to have regarding every thing from IT to mechanic.
now there is one western with us in same firm his qualifications are same as mine but not with as much knowledge of mine. but he gets 5 times more than me every month. WHY? that the main Question WHy? Contracts are signed for labour from Countries on what basis will they be allowed to work and the the first party has to Agree too.
I appreciate that. What Ivanhoe had implied was that he would pay the top figure to whichever he selected. You had said that you would use the cheapest and then pay him the lower rate which is logical.
for my first comment i meant where they were equally qualified.
To retain good staff you have to pay them well. Irrespective of the colour of the skin. Its all a question of saving/disposable income vis a vis their home country.
I just know that in my line nobody from my city, Bombay, is willing to come to Qatar (higher cost of living etc etc). You can certainly get people from other parts of India but then i'll get back to my initial statement - you pay peanuts you get monkeys :-) (There are always exceptions)
Lameas first comment was that she would recruit the one charging least and pay him that!
The implication of your argument appeared to be that they should be paid the same.
As someone else pointed out, if a company has an option of recruiting an individual (given that education and experience etc are equal and that they will not be promoted). They will recruit the cheapest that can fulfill the requirements of the job.
Sputnik, it's nothing to do with racial discrimination, it's a matter of economics.
Helloqatar it is what these people can get away with. How many companies here provide less that what they promised, and less that what the laws of this country provide.
And remind me again of how 60 Nepalese died last year while building the games...
I think you missed the point in your first comment.
At least you understand the concept of paying for the job done and not the 'ethnic origin'.
If I had the choice of two mechanics, both trained to the same level, one in the UK and one in India, I would offer the same money and employ the better mechanic. Then I would charge my customers accordingly for the service that I provide.
Discrimination is everywhere, as is pollution, the difference is in the amount of it and the laws to prevent it. In the UK your Indian worker has the Unions and the courts to use. Here they will loose their job, or not be paid and be stranded here.
'Browning out of the workforce', I heard of an Austrian with a similar slant on life.
If this place really wants to move from second to first world these ignorant attitudes need to change. Keep them up and some third world countries will overtake them.
Do you want a new salary that is like what you think western workers are getting or do you want western workers to get a lower salary so everything is equal.
If I bring 100 jobs to India in a call center, should I pay those workers what I would have to pay in the west or should I pay them a lower wage because they are in India and will work for less money.
It is supply and demand, no one has to come here for the salary that is offered. If you don't like the salary, go home and don't sign another contract till you get what you want. Just because you are a bad negotiator, don't blame people that got a better deal. Trust me, if businesses could get what they needed from a lower paid person, they wouldn't hire the higher paid employee. If you are lower paid, it is because that is what your service is worth to the employer.
This is only a welfare state for Qatari's, if you are working here, you have to work for what you are paid or go home. You do not get a paycheck because you are a nice person.
Racial discrimination is everywhere IN the UK particularly Indian nurses are discriminated against...At the work places in particular.... Over here at least such differences are not reflected externally Every western bum is paid heafty amounts of money to support his lavish lifestyle and still this unjustified comparison.....
Out here at least there is a common roof but yes such instances cant be outrightly eliminated... Things have to be more attributed to skill set rather than color of the skin or race..... Its ridiculous.....Filipina maids and other asian expats too face such blatant discrimination....
Where are the teachers from in these substandard schools lamea to not make them "qualified"?
"Is the browned out crowd of western oil workers visible in Las Laffan by their hundreds building labour accomodations and crowding Garvy's qualified??"
I don't know what you're trying to say here? Western oil workers are building labour accommodations at RL?
what bothers me most is that only community school fees is paid by the company!! employees of similar designation are reimbursed different amounts in school fees according to their nationalities. South asian workers have to either send their kids to substandard community schools or pay for good quality schools out of their own pocket.
the govt is also worried about the demographic structure hence limits the issue of visas for certain nationalities.
this is also why some asians are discriminated against
asian doesnt always mean indian
"If the Middle East wanted, they could fill every company with them, but how many are truly qualified?"
I have to say that I have been entertained. Is the browned out crowd of western oil workers visible in Las Laffan by their hundreds building labour accomodations and crowding Garvy's qualified?? I guess HND is a premium and its only a diploma.
Yes the Qatari Oil Companies want to fill all their openings with Indians if they find them. The current rate of recruitments of Indians to Westerners in Qatari Oil Companies (not Western Companies) is about 4:1, but they are still unable to find people willing to come from India. Before you start your "cheaply available" stuff, salaries are similar with a minor difference of western inducement of QR 2000.
Most companies are now opening Engineering offices in India and offering similar salaries to the middle east so its difficult to find quality people.
IT-enabled is a euphemism for call centres and most employees of such centres in India are college going arts and commerce students, but you can't expect a NYT reporter to understand the difference since he/she may be "Western" qualified.
Quiet lurker. Poor Contributer
if there is disparity in skills then ur point is valid but discrimination exists primarily due to the diference in skin colour and not qualification. there are scores of asian workers who have been trained abroad and yet get far less than their western counterparts!!!
:D
Reports have circulated that only
one in four engineering graduates in India are employable in the IT -enabled services industry. An article titled "Skills Gap Hurts Technology Boom in India" in The New York
Times on October 19, 2006, said the rest were found to lack required technical skills, English fluency, teamwork skills or oral presentation skills.
The simple fact remains that people raised and educated from the west remain superior in all the above skills. The CVs received from India and Asia number in the tens of thousands every month. If the Middle East wanted, they could fill every company with them, but how many are truly qualified?
Rather than complain about the disparity, watch and learn.
i would hire the mechanic asking $10 and pay him $10 why bother with a westerner and an additional $90?? his skin colour is of no use to me!!!!
You have two car mechanics, one American and trained in the US and one from a third world country and trained in that country.
the American wants $100 to change the oil, the other one wants $10. Are you going to employ the one that wants $10 and then pay him $100?
I think not!
The American that looks Indian, why is his/her salary less? This whole lame excuse about the wealth of the ethnic 'home country' is a shameful example of the lack of respect and equality in the ME. Why should someone who can do a job as well as the next get paid less? It is the greed of those that run the businesses and their freedom to exploit those who are not able to protect themselves. This is why unions are not allowed here. If it was true supply and demand unions would have no power. And lets not start on the fraudsters that promise one thing and then when the workers get here, give much less. The is a word for this, conmen.
The US may not have wage discrimination, instead they have outsourcing. The end result is pretty much the same. People are working for US companies at a much lower wage in foreign countries.
The US may not have wage discrimination, instead they have outsourcing. The end result is pretty much the same. People are working for US companies at a much lower wage in foreign countries.
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