QP allowances - what can I negotiate?

you are very excited about moving to Qatar?!!!

don't expect too much....

So much of talking about QP Allowance eh Dweller ?

And I am not sure if many of the statments mentioned refer to me and my posts.

Are you trying to say that I pinpointed any belief by other muslims. ?? Or did I make clear the differences between the muslims? With little reference to my personal beliefs. I believe over the course of my disucussions I mentioned at least once that what I wrote was to get a POINT across and not neccessarily what I personally believed. 

Also I actually did not bicker about the fundamental islamic beliefs. Rather I stated some realities on the topics we were writing about. And when people took offense or denied the truth of what I was saying.. I.E. thats not really in Islam! or thats not true of england.. then I produced sayings that would prove that what I have said is indeed an opinion held by many others (more knowledgable then my accusers) on the subject.  And this was done in order to clarify myself!

This in no way meant that I agree with those sayings or authors on the subject. And I clearly stated that on at least one post. Many times over the course of the past week I have felt that the majority of people do not actually know how to read! And I have also thought that perhaps I do not know how to write what I am trying to say in a way others understand.

Now on your most excellent post.. Yes everything you had said is absolutely correct. The muslim ummah is completely divided. They comment and make judgements on others without actually having knowledge.  Or clarifying that which they don't understand. 

And upon those with knowledge is to overlook the mistakes of others and not to jump to assumptions so quickly. 

and I do agree with you in that actions speak louder than words. And how many times has a person of knowledge and good actions crossed a muslims path but they were rejected because of the humbleness and piety they posess. Or they did not live up to the expections of status. Or the the non muslim/ignorant muslim did not understand the correct adaab in Islam and therefore was put off by them actually having a righteous action? Such as the sister who wears a blue abaya.. and perhaps a more extreme muslim who is ignorant on the subject thinks that one should only wear black... And will reject the sister wearing a coloured abaya.. as one who lacks in knowledge.. When actually the opposite is true!

 Or the sister who sees another that wears niqaab.. and she is rejected because she is a "wahaabi" or "extremist." 

Sister.. I have never seen any people who had better adaab in manners where I live then a friend of mine named Arifa. She is MashAllah like a sweet scent from Heaven.. yet few will actually listen to what she has to say and instead choose to stay in the cocoon they have made for themselves.

Speaking with knowledge and clarifying the different beliefs of the people is the first step to seeking enlightenment. Some people will not like what a dawah caller has to say even if he says it in the best manner. And they will take it in the wrong way.. or misinterpret what that person has said. This is the nature of being a human being who is indeed fallible.

If one studies the issue of the face veil Islamically outside of the prevalent political and cultural agenda, one would find that the face veil is at the very least recommended by the Islamic legislation, and it cannot be labelled as extreme. Yet others may even regard the growing of the beard as extreme, or praying five times a day as extreme. All of these judgements based upon modern day prevalent culture and not upon study of the Qur’aan or Prophetic tradition. On the other side of the dividing line, we have the extremists who will go beyond the limits of the Islamic legislation, again driven by either cultural or political agendas, so they may take the lives of individuals by murder and terrorism and attribute that to Islaam and even claim that Islaam legislates such despicable acts. Those who carried out the seventh of July tube and bus bombings in London claimed they were guided by Islaam. But in reality they were deceived by an extremist political methodology, far removed from Islaam. Other extremists may partake in what is commonly labelled in these times as ‘honour killings’ of female members of their families, or force their daughters into marriage with one whom they do not wish to marry, and then they attribute this to Islaam! Nothing could be further from the truth. This article will discuss the Islamic concept of taking the balanced and middle path in religion.

So the middle and balanced way in Islaam is that a person does not trangress the limits set by Allaah, and likewise he does not fall short with regard to them. And this moderate and balanced way lies in adherence to the example of the life the Messenger of Allaah (may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), not going to extremes beyond following him and not falling short in following him. An example of that would be if a man was to say, “I wish to stand and pray throughout every night and not sleep because prayer is the best of worship so I love to stay awake praying continually.” Then this is extremism in the religion that opposes the truth. Something similar to this occurred in the time of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when a three men came together and said, “I will prayer through the night and not sleep”, another one said, “I will continually fast and not break the fast,” and a third said, “I will not get married.” So the news of this discussion reached Allaah’s Messenger, so he said, “What is wrong with some of you that you say such things?! I fast and I break my fast, I stand in prayer a portion of the night and I sleep also and I marry women. So whoever opposes my way (the Sunnah) then he is not from me.” (Reported by Al-Bukhaaree). So these people went to an extreme in the religion, so the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him, reprimanded them and corrected them, because they opposed his Sunnah (i.e. his way).

As for falling short, then it is if a person was to say, “I am not in need of fulfilling the obligations that Allaah and his Messenger have placed upon me”, or he states, “I am not in need of carrying out superogatory acts of worship.” This negligence is in opposition to the balanced middle way of Islaam and the Prophetic methodology. As for the middle, moderate and balanced path, then that is to proceed upon way of Allaah’s Messenger and the way of his noble Companions.

Another example that can be mentioned here is of three men and in front of them is an open sinner. So the first states, “As for me, I will not greet this faasiq (i.e. open sinner) with the salutation of peace (i.e. the salaam), I will boycott him and be distant from him and not talk to him at all!”. The second sates, “As for me I will accompany this sinner and give him the salaam, and I will display my pleasure and happiness in front of him and I will invite him and I will accept his invitations, and I hold him to be a pious man.” The third man states, “This man is a sinner, and I dislike him due to his sin and I love him due to the imaan (faith) he has. I will not boycott or abandon him unless I see that it will rectify him, and if my boycotting him will not bring about his rectification, but rather I see that it will increase him in sin, then I will not abandon him.” So we say that the first man has gone beyond bounds and fallen into extremism, and the second man has fallen short and become negligent. As for the third, then he is one who is balanced.

From all of these examples we see that moderation and balance is decided by the teachings of the Qur’aan and Prophetic Sunnah. As Muslims we are obligated to believe that the legislation of the Qur’aan and Sunnah are just and balanced, as Allaah, the Most High, has stated, “Allaah bears witness that none has the right to be worshipped except He, and the Angels and those with knowledge also bear witness. And He is established with justice, none has the right to be worshipped except Him, the All-Mighty, All- Wise.” However, those who misunderstand the texts due to their ignorance or misinterprete them due to their deviated desires, they are the ones who fall in negligence or extremism.

We find modernist muslim ‘thinkers’ and authors who claim to be re-interpreting Islaam for the ‘modern age’, stating that Allaah’s Messenger used to encourage the people with ease and taking the paths of ease, and they quote as a proof his statement, “Give good tidings and do not cause the people to flee, and make things easy and do not make things difficult.” (Reported by Muslim) and the statement of Allaah, “Allaah wishes for you ease and He does not wish for you hardship.” (Qur’aan 2:185). So they utilise the likes of these texts to justify their own shortcomings. Some modernists even claim that if a religious act is not found in the Qur’aan, then we are not obligated to act upon it. This saying of their’s is a clear violation of Qur’anic text.

Dawah

The Manners and Etiquette of Da`wah

  Islaam & The Battle Between Extremism and Neglect

Author: By Aboo Khadeejah Abdul-Waahid

Source: Salafi Publications

Article ID : DAW010004  [1038]  

Islaam & The Battle Between Extremism and Neglect

In recent times many people who call to Islaam have started discussing the matter of moderation and extremism in Islaam. Unfortunately, many of these discussions are driven by political agendas on both sides of the dividing line, that is to say that you have those Muslims who, in their desire to be seen as integrating with the host community, will label as extremist that which they see as alien to the society they are living within. An example of that is the huge debate that erupted in 2006 in the UK regarding the wearing of the face veil (or niqaab) by Muslim women. If one studies the issue of the face veil Islamically outside of the prevalent political and cultural agenda, one would find that the face veil is at the very least recommended by the Islamic legislation, and it cannot be labelled as extreme. Yet others may even regard the growing of the beard as extreme, or praying five times a day as extreme. All of these judgements based upon modern day prevalent culture and not upon study of the Qur’aan or Prophetic tradition. On the other side of the dividing line, we have the extremists who will go beyond the limits of the Islamic legislation, again driven by either cultural or political agendas, so they may take the lives of individuals by murder and terrorism and attribute that to Islaam and even claim that Islaam legislates such despicable acts. Those who carried out the seventh of July tube and bus bombings in London claimed they were guided by Islaam. But in reality they were deceived by an extremist political methodology, far removed from Islaam. Other extremists may partake in what is commonly labelled in these times as ‘honour killings’ of female members of their families, or force their daughters into marriage with one whom they do not wish to marry, and then they attribute this to Islaam! Nothing could be further from the truth. This article will discuss the Islamic concept of taking the balanced and middle path in religion.

So the middle and balanced way in Islaam is that a person does not trangress the limits set by Allaah, and likewise he does not fall short with regard to them. And this moderate and balanced way lies in adherence to the example of the life the Messenger of Allaah (may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), not going to extremes beyond following him and not falling short in following him. An example of that would be if a man was to say, “I wish to stand and pray throughout every night and not sleep because prayer is the best of worship so I love to stay awake praying continually.” Then this is extremism in the religion that opposes the truth. Something similar to this occurred in the time of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when a three men came together and said, “I will prayer through the night and not sleep”, another one said, “I will continually fast and not break the fast,” and a third said, “I will not get married.” So the news of this discussion reached Allaah’s Messenger, so he said, “What is wrong with some of you that you say such things?! I fast and I break my fast, I stand in prayer a portion of the night and I sleep also and I marry women. So whoever opposes my way (the Sunnah) then he is not from me.” (Reported by Al-Bukhaaree). So these people went to an extreme in the religion, so the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him, reprimanded them and corrected them, because they opposed his Sunnah (i.e. his way).

As for falling short, then it is if a person was to say, “I am not in need of fulfilling the obligations that Allaah and his Messenger have placed upon me”, or he states, “I am not in need of carrying out superogatory acts of worship.” This negligence is in opposition to the balanced middle way of Islaam and the Prophetic methodology. As for the middle, moderate and balanced path, then that is to proceed upon way of Allaah’s Messenger and the way of his noble Companions.

Another example that can be mentioned here is of three men and in front of them is an open sinner. So the first states, “As for me, I will not greet this faasiq (i.e. open sinner) with the salutation of peace (i.e. the salaam), I will boycott him and be distant from him and not talk to him at all!”. The second sates, “As for me I will accompany this sinner and give him the salaam, and I will display my pleasure and happiness in front of him and I will invite him and I will accept his invitations, and I hold him to be a pious man.” The third man states, “This man is a sinner, and I dislike him due to his sin and I love him due to the imaan (faith) he has. I will not boycott or abandon him unless I see that it will rectify him, and if my boycotting him will not bring about his rectification, but rather I see that it will increase him in sin, then I will not abandon him.” So we say that the first man has gone beyond bounds and fallen into extremism, and the second man has fallen short and become negligent. As for the third, then he is one who is balanced.

So this is what we say regarding all the acts of worship as well as worldly dealings and social interactions, that people are either extreme, or negligent or balanced.

Yet another example is of a man who is married, so he is subservient to his wife and goes whichever way she directs him, and he does not correct her when she sins, and he does not ever encourage her with goodness and excellent behaviour. Rather she posseses his decision making, and she has authority over him. And on the other extreme there is a man who is overburdaning and arrogant and he has no concern for his wife or her feelings, he demeans her and treats her worse than an oppressed slave is treated. The third man is balanced and moderate with regard to his wife, just as Allaah has commanded him, “And the women have rights over their husbands similar to those of their husbands over them in that which is good.” (Qur’aan 2:228), and the Messenger of Allaah said, “Let not a believing man hate a believing woman, if he dislikes one quality in her, then he will be pleased with another.” (Reported by Imaam Muslim). So we see that the first one is negligent, the second is extreme and third is in line with the wise legislation, moderate and balanced.

From all of these examples we see that moderation and balance is decided by the teachings of the Qur’aan and Prophetic Sunnah. As Muslims we are obligated to believe that the legislation of the Qur’aan and Sunnah are just and balanced, as Allaah, the Most High, has stated, “Allaah bears witness that none has the right to be worshipped except He, and the Angels and those with knowledge also bear witness. And He is established with justice, none has the right to be worshipped except Him, the All-Mighty, All- Wise.” However, those who misunderstand the texts due to their ignorance or misinterprete them due to their deviated desires, they are the ones who fall in negligence or extremism.

We find modernist muslim ‘thinkers’ and authors who claim to be re-interpreting Islaam for the ‘modern age’, stating that Allaah’s Messenger used to encourage the people with ease and taking the paths of ease, and they quote as a proof his statement, “Give good tidings and do not cause the people to flee, and make things easy and do not make things difficult.” (Reported by Muslim) and the statement of Allaah, “Allaah wishes for you ease and He does not wish for you hardship.” (Qur’aan 2:185). So they utilise the likes of these texts to justify their own shortcomings. Some modernists even claim that if a religious act is not found in the Qur’aan, then we are not obligated to act upon it. This saying of their’s is a clear violation of Qur’anic text.

Let us here bring several more examples to show the middle path between extremism and negligence:

1. “The beard of the Muslim male causes the people to feel intimidated, so one should remove it or trim it down”. Then this statement displays negligence in enacting the commandment of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in which he said, “My Lord has has commanded me to grow my beard and trim the my mustache.” (Reported by At-Tabari). He also commanded the believers, “Trim the mustache and grow the beard.” (Bukhaari and Muslim). Growing the beard is from the natural disposition of a male and a distinguishing sign of a Muslim, as has been stated in other narrations. To oppose this command is a sinful action. So the middle way is to grow the beard, and negligence is to shave it or trim it.

2. “The face veil and outer cloak worn by the Muslim female is intimidating and unnecessary, so women should not wear it”. This is another statement that falls short of the balanced legislation. As for the outer cloak or Jilbaab, then the female has been commanded with it in the Qur’aan where Allaah sates, “O Prophet! Tell the your wives and your daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments (Jilbaabs) around the whole of their bodies. That will be better so they are known so as not to be annoyed.” (Qur’aan 33:59). So the outer garment has been commanded by Allaah, so it is not permissible to disobey Him due to prevalent culture or tribal traditions or in the name of integration! As for the face veil, then at the very least it is recommended by the legislation. It was stated by A’isha, the wife of the Prophet, that when one of the companions approached her, “I covered my face with my garment from him.”(Reported by Al-Bukhaaree). She also stated that whilst at Hajj, when male riders would pass by, “She would drop the garment from her head over her face.” (Reported by Abu Dawood). And similarly has been related by the sister-in-law of the Prophet, Asmaa during Hajj, when she stated, “We used to cover our faces from the men.” (Reported Al-Haakim). So it is strange that we find Muslim community leaders claiming that there is no mention of the niqaab (face veil) in the Qur’aan and therefore it is not from Islaam, but merely an old desert-Arab tradition! Whereas, we find from the above narrations that the face veil was the practice of the believing women. So those Muslims who reject the legitimacy of the face veil have fallen into neglect of the religious texts, and are not to be considered as balanced, but instead we say they are negligent. What is even worse is that they call to these ignorant views.

3. “If a Muslim male does not shake the hand of a female, the non-Muslims will think this demeans women, so let’s take the ease and shake hands with the opposite sex”. This statement is a negligent approach that falls short of the middle path. The Prophet (salallaahu alaihi wassallam) said, “I do not shake the hands of women.” (Reported by Ibn Maajah) And A’isha the wife of the Messenger, stated, “By Allaah, the hand of Allaah’s Messenger never touched another woman [other than his wives]. He used to take the pledge of allegiance of women verbally only.” Shaking hands with the opposite sex is a means to temptation that may eventually lead to fornication. However, there is no harm in exchanging greetings without shaking hands, as long as alluring speech is avoided. And there is no harm in women shaking hands with immediate relatives such as their fathers, husbands and brothers. The Prophet was never disrespectful towards his female disciples, yet he never shook their hands, so this is a respectful act towards women. Most non-Muslims are very understanding once this matter is explained to them, so more Muslims should make effort in explaining this affair rather than giving in, and thereby opposing the Prophetic texts and falling short. In truth a Muslim can be a responsible member of the community, without comprimising the obligations of his religion and without breaking the laws of the host country. Indeed good, upright practising Muslims become role models of good character in communities.

Modernist thinkers and preachers deliver verdicts claiming that the religion allows for this ease wherein Allaah is disobeyed. If it was the case that that the Messenger was giving license to his Companions to disobey the clear commands of the Qur’aan and Prophetic Sunnah, then we would find clear examples from the Companions themselves opposing the commands contained in the texts, yet no such narrations are found in the huge body of hadeeth literature. We never find for example the Companions shaving their beards, or the women removing their hijaabs, or men shaking hands with women and other than that! The textual proofs related to ease revolve around concessions that are established also by textual evidences for example: It is stated in text that if one is not able to pray standing due to illness, or difficulty, then he prays whilst seated, if he is not able to do that, then he prays lying down; If one has no water nearby, or has an illness that prevents him from utilising water to make an ablution (wudhoo) for prayer or take a bath from sexual intercourse, then he is given the allowance to make a dry purification (tayamum) by simply striking the earth, wiping the hands and face; When one is upon a journey, then he shortens his prayer from four to two units and he may combine between some of the prayers and he may break his fast if he wishes, even if it is in the month of Ramadhaan, and so on. So these are just some examples of conessions and the removal of hardship contained within the wise, divine legislation.

You can see clearly, that the legislated ease does not entail disobedience to Allaah. In these times we find those who claim to represent the ‘moderate Islamic viewpoint’, yet in truth, they oppose the Islamic texts and speak about the Religion ignorantly, and from the most ignorant of their statements is, “We do not find this ruling in the Qur’aan, therefore we are not obligated with it,” whilst it is established that the Islamic leglistation is take from the Qur’aan, the Prophetic Tradition and the concensus of the Companions. The danger with these viewpoints is that small sections of muslim communities fall prey to the extremists as a backlash to these ‘new age’ modernist thinkers who are negligent in implementation of the Islamic legislation. So on the other side of the spectrum we have the extremists who lurk in the shadows, waiting for their prey. They indoctrinate the youth with false doctrines that call to violence and false notions of ‘Jihaad’. So they encourage with suicide attacks and terrorist acts, that are forbidden by the Qur’aan and the Pure Prophetic Sunnah.

*Moderator - PH, please refrain from such lengthy cut and pastes.  Posting a small excerpt and then adding the link will suffice and save us all from splitting headaches*

thanks Alexa...i trul believe whether you are a muslim or not, leading by example is the best way.  I can understand PH frustrations, as many times i feel like there is a lot of assumptions about Islam and it can get frustrating but sometimes(not all) we really have ourselves to blame. A lot muslims dont practice the most basic things in Islam, such as manners, so as a non muslim if you come across rude, ill mannered muslims, what are you to think? I'm not saying all muslims behave this way but the few that do really set a bad example. If you want to change the perception of Islam, then be the one that makes those changes by setting an example and not pin point bad things about other peoples religions or beliefs. Theres a great saying of the prophet which state:

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said, “Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?

They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you.

How many muslims really do this....If we did this the world will be a better place...

princess habibah said nadt ...

I absolutely agree with you..

And although my posts may come out like that.. I am only posting to show other people another side of the coin.. Not to convert or rectify anyone

PH..i grew up as a muslim and until the last few years, i wasnt a practising muslim, due to the fact that all the muslims would preach one thing and practice another. A lot of reverts always claim that if they had met muslims before learning about islam they wouldnt have taken islam on.

You can take a horse to the river but you cant make him drink, unless people are asking for info about Islam, i dont think we should be ramming it up their throats. Some of your posts are very condscending to non muslims(although i know you dont mean it to be), you a re just passionate about your religion, but really if you want to show people the other side of the coin, i think leading by example is the best option instead of indirectly insulting people(which i know you dont mean to).

My issue with islam previously was dont tell me about Islam, show me(by your behaviour), i can only believe something is good if the people are actualy practising it. Unfortunately in ME countries not a lot of people practice Islam the way its intended and its not our place to tell others, i always say clean up your own backyard before trying to clean others.

Unfortunately a lot of muslims dont paint a very good picture for Islam, and its the muslims that we have to preach too before preaching to others....

Its only then that maybe non muslims might see Islam for what it really is?

I hate all this bickering about whos right or wrong, whats right for someone isnt right for another..live and let live... 

I absolutely agree with you..

And although my posts may come out like that.. I am only posting to show other people another side of the coin.. Not to convert or rectify anyone else.

I have said many times that in terms of my islam that we are only human and can be wrong sometimes. 

KB oh wait.. I'm a fruitcake because I don't bother with a spellchecker. God forbid that a major sin would be not posting in proper english complete with the correct grammer. 

I'm a muslim KB... I assume  your not.. or perhaps even you are.. and have your own issues to deal with.. So please don't tread on mine.

perhaps you right .. Qatar isn't the place for me with its what 600k expats.

Lady you are a dead set fruit cake!!!! Qatar will eat you alive if this is the type of attitude you are going to bring with you.

If you've herad so much about QP and what they offer I don't know why you are writing on this forum? Here is something you don't know... a lot is actually two words and however should always have a comma after it.

This is such an issue within muslims, bickering against eachother regarding what colors to wear, salafi,wahai blah blah blah and forget the most basic teachings of the quran and what the prophets has taught. if we first practice how to be kind to one another(regardless of race, religion etc) and practice basic manners rather than worry which group is better than the either, muslims wouldnt be in the state they are now...

I would very much like to hear your point of views..

YOu may be surprised that I am not at all argumentative.. on a persons owns reasons for following what they follow

I am really quite interested to know your perspective on the issues

you don't even know what my religion is ... yet you are very quick to judge...

Be slow ........

I am more than open minded to hear your opinions... and would love to get another side of the coin.

however you seem to be unwilling to share that part of yourself.. and vice versa.

also pm if you look at who people call wahaabi..

it is any muslim who appear overly strict.. (even if they are not salafi)

Anyone who supports the saudi khalifa (although salafis do not support saudi goverment in any shape or form)

A person could be called an ikhwaane.. or even a tabliqui and still be called wahaabi in the same breath.

In islam one must not try to gain favour due to riya.. however riya is not proclaiming an ability a person may have

I have met , been involved with, and had the experience of knowing first hand the differences between salafi's, arabs, ikwaanee, pakistanis and all the various sects...

and in all my years of watching these people and studying them (yes I am a student of knowledge and people do take advice from me, including da'ees currently writing books about Islam)... 

Then I would say that the only ones to produce evidence to support many of their claims are the salafis.

That does not mean they are free from sin. However the people who are staunch enemies have little if no evidence to support themselves and their actions. Instead they are well known to use rhetoric.

And I have never seen muslims as just in what they say as the salafis.

i.e. it was them who said a muslimah can wear every colour.. and not just black (unlike the more liberal sects of Islam)

Shaykh albani followed by both salafis.. and non salafis.. wrote the most fantastic book about why he thought those scholars who make the niqaab compulsory are extremist. And he was the foremost author who gave evidence to support his claim rather than just a fatwa.. or a few weak hadith. May Allah reward him and forgive him of his sins.

One shafi scholar in syria once wrote a book. He said that the bastard child will never go to Jannah.. This is the writing of those who speak to much with too little knowledge of Islam. Anyone reading this horse crap can see that the author is just talking rhetoric.

And while the salafi works are laden with opinions by the scholars (that some people take as written in gold)..The majority of their work is evidence based.. and the opinions are very clear to all who read their work.

And for me... I am very open minded to looking at the other side of the coin and seeing what others have to say about Islam that is not rhetoric..Rather giving a different opinion based on knowledge and evidence of the Quran and Sunnah.

I definately believe that a lack of brotherhood is deeply missing in the ummah. However, I do not agree that the ikhwaane brotherhood has the answers to reestablishing this because they actually go against Islam to do so.

 And I do also do not believe in any writer or scholar who defames the prophets, the sahaba, the prophets family, or the righteous scholars.

It is an islamic concept that no one is an Angel and all make mistakes without having to defame another person that is not based on Islamic evidence.

all this talk of bars, arabs and fast girls... I don't frequent the bars myself so this is new to me... But well... you learn something new of QL everytime...

A myth.. no.. I said it is an insult by those people who don't know anything about the salafis.

and yes I have met those arabs who have even called themselves wahaabi..

for whatever reason they did so.. I also know that they had no Idea why they called themselves this.

I never said I was unhappy in england...

 I have learned alot by being more multi cultural. Learning from the british culture and formalities. As well as meeting some brilliant friends who I will remember the rest of my life.

 I have a high degree of respect for the british (post understanding them). And am very pleased and grateful that I am freely allowed to practice my religion in this country. I.E. wear hijab, go to a mosque ectr.

I may not agree some issues such as the western definition of democracy... However that does not mean I disagree with all aspects of democracy. Nor does it mean I have any right to push my version of Islam on my Host country in any shape, way or form. I.E. like the muslims who call for shariah law in the west.

It is very much my belief that muslims should try to do it in they're own countries first and be a guide on how beautiful Islam is ... and following it correctly could be..

Like in the time of the Prophet Mohammad SAW and the sahaba after him. I also believe that if this happens.. people would be coming to Islam in droves.

I do think anyone has misunderstood you. What I cannot understand is why live in a country you are not happy in?

[img_assist|nid=58488|title=|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=130|height=98]

that a few of you misunderstood my comments about britain.. as well

I didn't say I disliked britain..I only pointed out a few realities about living here as a muslim..

and some of the reasons behind the tensions muslims (particular pakistanis) feel towards the english.

I grew up.. with the arab talk of wahaabi this and wahabi that

and in fact have met many syrian, iraqi friends who grew up with the same kind of propaganda..

However, we have to look at the type of people who are saying these things.. I.E. cultural Arabs, speaking rhetoric from biased forefathers or community, and lack of knowledge about religious issues in general.

In my experience these are usually the same arabs who if one tells them that what they are doing is not in Islam.. will fight tooth and nail.. (like in regards to following a madhab) And do not even bother to look at the evidence brought before them.

In fact, their are a group of muslims... who also grew up hanafi.. and such who do not consider themselves salafi (and like others feel that it is a sect) and yet still do not agreeconcept that following a madhab is not in Islam.

and you have to remember than many of the arabs do have sufi tendencies as well as ikwaanee (i.e. most will relish in sayyid qutubs writings and hasan al-banaas) 

And it was Arabs who during the time of the Prophet Mohammad SAW became known as the kawarij.

their is alot of racism within the east. And also within Islam. In that one group looks down on another because they think themselves better. Such as a khaleeji arab will look down on a syrian.. because the prophet came from the gulf....... And a syrian will look down on a second generation syrian in the west because they feel the west has somehow tainted them and their religion.. And the arab will look down on the pakistani.. because he feels they don't know arabic and cannot possibly have any info about Islam.

And the paksitani will look down on the white convert.. or even the one who does not recite the quran like a parrot.. and think they cannot possibly have any useful information about Islam to teach them

And it is in these cases that I always remember the hadeeth "Even if a slave were to tell a person good then follow it"

Lima Fox Trot.. I do experience racism in the north East..

but their are some beautiful villages up here. The high street village of Yarm was voted one of the best high streets in Britain. And after living in London.. some of the most beautiful green country side is here. Not to mention the Lake district, Yorkshire Dales, and the rest of cumbria.

you said "I'm looking out my window at a beautiful english village... with the old victorian houses and a duck pond. It feels as if I am at the ocean with all the birds flying around pooing on the car..

and if I just stand up I can see the beautiful St. mary's church of england across the way. And a few youth kicking a ball around the village green."

In an earlier thread, you said you lived in the North East and that it wasn't a nice place to live? The above does not sound like the North East?

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It is considered rude.. to call a group of people wahabi.. because this is one of the name of Allah

even Sheikh ABdul -wahab was called abdul... or slave of the most merciful. Wahaab

the term Wahaabi.. came into existance as an insult.

lastly.. their are lots of different type of people who claim salafiya.. It is becuase of the widespread of sufism (90% of syrians are shafi with a sufi twist) that the term has become so widespread.

If one were to look at the history.. Sheikh abdul Wahhab rooted all sufism out of Saudi those many years ago..

We now have these days.. people who follow the same sheikhs as us.. and also follow other sheikhs that we do not follow (and talk against) We can see these people in libya or algeria who are salafi jihaadis..... and the like.

The difference between some of these people is that they do takfeer. And also are not part of the other catagory of Arabs who believe that one must follow a madhab to learn about Islam and become a scholar.

Have a nice day everyone and remember...Be good. If you cant be good..be careful ! :)

PS girls n boys, please play nicely

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Every country has its own advantages. I much prefer england and even france for the self control that is taught in the culture.. and the polite manners as opposed to my american brash up bringing.

Have you ever heard the phrase "They can't help it, they're American!"

DaRude the taliban.. are a sect from Hanafi.. I know quite a bit about them because almost every religious Hanafee is also talibanee or tabliqui jamaah.

My husbands is half gujarati.... and half UPI from Uttar pradesh (you know the posh urdu speakers).  And he comes from a hanafee family.

Actually all the taliban our deobandi's. They publicize this themselves.

Mr. paul is angry because he has no chinese orientol there to ogle at :)

turn into monsters when they hit 40.

France and italy... There surrender soon as the krauts hove into view ! Hairy armpits and stinky cheeses, snails and frogs legs, olives and Fiat

LOL

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I never claimed I wasn't dumb but why the venom on France, Italy and Spain?

Great food, pretty girls, lovely countryside, long hot summers. Whats not to like?

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

that yanks are dumb :)

You like 3 of the worst countries. And before anyone tries to tell me im wrong...I DONT CARE !!!

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switzerland has the best quality schooling. The finishing schools are the best in the world. And if I have a chance I will definately endeavor to place my own children in http://www.ivpworld.com/en/default.asp 

that is of course after saving for years! (kay feeling sorry for myself again LOL) Allah knows best the choices I have made for his sake..

 and what do really know about taliban see you murmuring alot about them,

 how were they formed, where did they really come from,

 and what was their main aim by taking control of whole afghanistan.

 who were the war lords then why they never got even with taliban regime    then??? 

seems like you were one of their target or you were kidnapped by them or you just got pissed by taliban by through watching that lil tv screen news on it. 

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I thought you said you were in the North East and that it wasn't a nice place to live?

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England is a lovely country and I really like Europe especially France, Italy and Spain. I left the US many years ago and I wonder if I will ever return. My next job will probably be in Switzerland which will be good for my daughter's schooling.

I quite like living here despite the summer heat but I think Europe is better and the English country life is also good.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

Not all who claim to be salafi.. actually are salafi.. Many different types that associate with other methodologies

As for the spindly hair.. You might want to do the brother a favour and let him know how un attractive he looks..

he he he

what brought you to the middle east if you were doing finance in London??

doesn't it get hot over there during the summer.. A bit tooo Hot.

I'm looking out my window at a beautiful english village... with the old victorian houses and a duck pond. It feels as if I am at the ocean with all the birds flying around pooing on the car..

and if I just stand up I can see the beautiful St. mary's church of england across the way. And a few youth kicking a ball around the village green.

In fact, It will be hard for me to leave this such a serene and beautiful part of the world. Even if it is only for a year.

I guess we won't get away with any planned bombings..

Its a good thing since terrorism and the (taliban)deobandi methodology isn't really are kind of party.

Thanks for letting me know though!

Richard All most all the heavy truck drivers. heavy equipment operators are pathans here.

You see some amongst the Pakistanis but not very many. You hardly ever see a Qatari with a full beard. Usually, they have just a stubbly goatee. That's all.

Not many Taliban here PH.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

they all know him well :)

Its cheaper than Qatar as well...60 BD (or so im told !)

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don't let your wife catch you in one of those places..

Looking is free..but anything else is paid for, usually many times over...plus you might get to take home a "free" gift!!!

Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. --Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)

Oh yes just down the street from the haraam... (where the kaba is located) And there was a brothel in saudi. Where all the prostitutes hung out. The sad thing is that I hear that most of these girls are forced into prostitution.. Like the russian girls in dubai.

Istaqfirlilah.... I pray my husband never gets in with these kind of people.

So tell me do these arab guys in thobes wear the full beard (I.E. as long a a fistful) ???

while in the uk.. I was having my hair done and the hubby was sitting outside on a bench.. and the prostitutes kept coming up to him. apparantly quite a few bearded men visit such people.. (and they call themselves religious)..

just talking about it makes me want to bring out my sword !!!!

Great name PM and very apt. When my Dad was here visiting we decided to go there because we thought it would be interesting to check out the oldest hotel in Doha. We had no idea what to expect and walked into the bar like a couple of innocents.

Its a disgusting place full of ho's. But it must be tolerated by someone important otherwise the powers that be would just send in the cops to round them all up.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

has good beer and sheesha. The down side is, its full of hookers, stunning as they are !!

Damn...

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They were everywhere. Ramada and Shereton banned them. still plying the trade at Oasis and Sofitel.

 Same here including some arab females. wont say what nationality.

DO NOT WANT TO OPPEND ANY ONE HERE :D ok offend

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And someone high up is bringing them in ???

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for two reasons.

1. The bar staff at the Ramada told me and this was confirmed by the guy at the door who is supposed to check IDs.

2. The signs that say that locals in national dress cannot enter have been removed.

Its becoming just like Dubai.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

There was a circular sent to all bars informing the latest changes to law. I saw it :)

The Ramada bar has closed their pool table because guys in thobes were getting too aggressive and having fights. We saw plenty in the bar drinking their beers and it all looked pretty peaceful. They seemed to be enjoying themselves even without the pool table.  

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

the law has changed and locals can now drink in bars ;)

I know its hard to believe but its true. I don't know why they did it. Strange 

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

"But still if they let Charan in, they will let anyone in."

What are you up to. I was there to protect you from those guys using my connections.

You didn't tell that Ramada guys closed the Pool Table to prevent fist fights :)

I never understood how a saudi.... can come over and drink alcohol.. and then go back home.. and pretend to be a good muslim

 And, out of curiousity, do they bother the girls at these clubs.. with their sick lustful ways?

It may be that in the future after my husband gains a few more years of experience on his CV... (not quality might I add)

that saudi will be an option. However, he would not like to have just a bog standard boring post that does not progress his career any further.

Like I mentioned... in his particular career.... the gulf states have little understanding about the quality needed to support a better infrastructure.

In fact, if one were to talk with the majority of his profession here in the Uk .. most workers actually realize the importance of certain skills.. Hence his fast progression and opportunity to gain the relevant experience at his age.

They are happy just doing bog standard boring work! It boggles the mind sometimes really.

The law changed a few weeks ago. You will see locals in national dress in all the bars now. Even in a dump like the sports bar in the Ramada. Apparently they get a little rowdy so one of the bar tenders was telling me on Thursday night.

But still if they let Charan in, they will let anyone in.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

Same here now Mr. Paul

Since 3 weeks ago. Me and Richard had 1st hand experience on last thursday night.

drinking in full traditional dress. No one says a word !!

 Most of them get tanked up and drive back to Saudi or stay over.

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are much lower than here but salaries are as good or better.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

Richard is in Investment Banking and he make tons of money. I am right about that Richard?

It won't last for long richard..

I believe interest rates have just been reduced yet again..

bye bye over valued pound!

I still think its strange that locals in national dress are allowed in the bars now. I am not saying that its a bad thing. It is surprising though huh?

Paul is it the same in Bahrain?

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

Arabs with the traditional Attaire were allowed in Bars 3 weeks ago only.

Working on it Richard.

Your in finance dude.. Everyone knows that financial directors and higher posts make alot more money in london. Especially with bonuses..

They have so many wonderful scholars in Qatar. MashAllah La quwatta illah billah and it would be an honour and pleasure to learn under them.  Alhumdulilah they are open minded, aware of current issues, and sincere.

I'm aware of all the bar hopping arabs. I dated a bahraini at uni who loved to drink.. and would still pray 5 times a day. He was a nice chap.. too bad he is still not married.

paying tax to fat lazy politicians who dont spend it wisely. Oh and yes, i like it when its another sunny day !! Yay !!

Oh, and i dont have a batchelors in anything except the school of life :)

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BSc holder in Quantity Surveying and the position is Junior Q/S

I am trying to be a low flyer like you. Don't forget the job I gave you at the bar the other night.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

She says,  "However coming from America I always considered my husband's salary extremely low."

I think you are out of date. Recently the UK overtook the US in GDP per capita. The British are now very slightly richer then Americans.

American salaries are not that high. I earned far more in London than I was earning in New York. Taxes are lower in the US but so are salaries.

Did anyone tell you PH that Qataris in national dress are allowed in the bars in Doha now? Did you know there were bars here? I think you should bestow your favors on Saudi. I have a feeling that Qatar is not Islamic enough for you or your high flying husband.

The time has come to substitute caution for courage. Martin Luther King, Birmingham, Alabama 1963

Richard123 - way to go. still hang over :)

or so im led to believe.

Personally, i dont think the Middle east holds the alure for tax free earning as it did maybe 20 years ago, i think i missed the boat...

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what was he a graduate in and what was his position?

Why Qatar needs all the High Flyers from the west:)

If you have a Bachelors in any subject you can become the area manager and earn more than that at aldis man..

just out of curiousity.. why do you stay in Qatar away from good ole blighty? Is it the sun?

I wanted to enthe gage service of a just passed out Graduate from the Asian Sub-Continent. He has no experience in the industry. He is asking for QR11,000 + Accomodation + Transport + air tickets etc etc.

Told him to fly kite and wait long long :)

if Qatar doesn't keep up with western salaries.. How in the world can they recruit people from the west?

and thankyou for your diplomacy pm. I could learn alot in that regard from you.

stay in UK, if yer husband is as a high flier as you say he is...

Im moving back to manage an Aldi store then, cos thats more than im on here !! :(

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No we came to Qatar to do charity work. we are paid an allowance only.

And I also get the feeling that people don't know how to read pm.

where did I disparage any other persons salary. I just said the offer was low compared to the salary he could recieve elsewhere. Namely here in the UK.

Most people going to work out in Qatar go out for a better salary! Don't they?

I only meant that by saying that he has progressed way beyong his years in terms of the career

Not that he is a high flier .. financially!

and that the grading system does not allow young people who have the quality but not the years of experience.

And when the hell did I ever state how much my husband makes on here????

Oh forgive me..

I have done the ultimate sin.. by stating that a certain salary is not enough for me and my own personal circumstances

Call out the guards and have me arrested!

We don't want to know how thick is your husband's pay packet. OK

you have misunderstood my posts if that is what you think is the case

1.) Yes we do believe we are doing the company a favor  by considering to go there based on the salary and title of the post... just as they are also doing us a favor as we gain invaluable experience working with arabs and being in an Islamic enviroment where lots of scholars reside.

you seemed to have missed that point. 

2.) I never said I travel first class.. I said I travel business class and that is on long trips only. I.E. a flight from Qatar to Arizona in the US is almost 24 hours. 

If I travel from the UK back to the US I only travel business class because of the children.. In that it is more comfortable and I am able to rest

This is not due to being wealthy.. rather it is due to having a severe medical condition in which I need optimun rest at all times.  It is also in my islamic contract that if I travel with children every facility would be made available by my husband due to my impending medical condition.  As well as the ability to afford such a thing.

3.) I was referring to what the recruiters said when he enquired about applying to posts in the middle east. 

4.) I am not a seasoned traveller!

5.) Dweller you seemed to have missed the fact that a person in the uk without my husbands experience could and does ask for at least 2 times the salary offered.  Allahu Alim the tables could turn just as quickly.

I also think that perhaps living abroad.. and retiring in Turkey has misguided your ability to see the current inflation crisis in the UK. Managers at Aldi are now able to recieve their own car, perks and about 60k per year. 

Now yes I do know that my husband earn alot for UK standards. However coming from America I always considered my husband's salary extremely low. Now that I have spent time in the uk I do realize that we are very comfortable. However in no way would I call myself well off.

And compared to what some of the engineers are making at QP itself.. the salary offered to the hubby as a director of a service in charge of people with equal educational backgrounds is very low.

Although I do realize that engineers at QP do make a premium.

"we are not hungry for money. We do feel the need to gain some islamic knowledge by the scholars who currently reside in Qatar."

---> Whatever you decide good luck !!!  

Alexa - I will take care of her when they are here :)

and contineous Rant on this and that :)

PH.

I appreciate that your husband may have some well developed skills but what is coming across from your postings is that you are doing Qatar a favour by even considering going there.

That arab run companies wouldn't appreciate your husbands skill and are not advanced enough to do so.

That you know everything about the Koran (other posts)

That you are well off and want all to know (rich people very rarely do that). Maybe the wealth is inherited, you are unused to this and thus the boasting

That as a seasoned traveller, you always travel First Class, yet you were unaware what an IATA published fare was.

Not an ideal attitude to make friends in  a new country.

If you DO go, good luck.

Watch out Qatar!

Well yes.. in a new enviroment then some skills can be developed. However, he could more than find avenues to develop those skills here in the UK or even the US.

My mother is CEO of her own foundation/businesses of this type in the US and I am sure she would be more than happy to extend her hospitality to my husband. In fact she has been after him for years.  As well as having a vast number of contacts in the field.

Like I said our main goal is to learn Islam.. hence the consideration of going to a Muslim country such as Qatar.

in turn develop his own skills too

we will pay for our own business class tickets out of pocket

For the chance to sit and learn. TBH we were going to take a sabbatical anyway this year to learn Islam, study arabic, and increase our eeman (faith).

So this would just be an added bonus in that my husband could gain some experience working with Arabs and in the Gulf. And he could impart his expertise and ability to the organization.

Saya bary di Qatar, pengen kenal sama orang Indonesa, karena saya Indonesia. Apakah ada Persatuan atau Organisasi orang Indo di Qatar, Please let me know.

Saya Ibu Rumah Tangga dengan 1 Putri 2,5 tahun.

Yang mungkin punya kegiatan yang positif untuk Ibu RT seperti saya.

Thanks You .

Wassalam

we are not hungry for money. We do feel the need to gain some islamic knowledge by the scholars who currently reside in Qatar.

We only need that which will sustain ourselves and our family. In a way which would mean we can perform our Islamic responsibilites. 

Dweller we already have a firm grounding in Arabic. And are more than confident that we can meet our ambitions in learning the language.

No offense to any Arabs.. The gulf are new countries who have just started establishing an infrastructure. With every thing going on in the Middle East we do see them soon surpassing their western counterparts. However that is not the reality today.. and InshAllah much work is still needed in creating the infrastructure that is comparative or better than the west.

talking about insults to arabs ... she better be sure that the husband is anonymous ... you dont know who read this forum.

in another topic ... PH ... if my husband making twice as much as what he made in Qatar ... i will be be happily staying in the UK.  

I assume from what was said earlier that they have progressed away from the economy excursion tickets.

PH. What you are saying could be taken as an insult to arabs..."are not advanced enough to understand and have a very limited scope on the type of qualities he could bring into an organization".

Learning arabic I suspect will take somewhat over one year.

"The salary is not even half of what my husband would be making in the uk without his expertise!"

----:> glad we could help in assisting your husband's decision. If you need anymore information dont hesitate to ask.  

For your info, QP still not paying IATA fare.

Cheers,

The salary is not even half of what my husband would be making in the uk without his expertise! Nor does it cover the hassles of moving out to Qatar where he will not live for the rest of his life and still must establish a livlihood back in the uk. I.E. with buying a house and progressing job wise.

He said that he would not take the job if he was above 40 because that is the age one needs to consolidate what one has learned and settle into the role they worked hard for in their 30's.

intelligence.. know how with arabs..personality.. profesionalism and in all of his career he has never met a guy with these qualities and feels that he could finally find a mentor that would help him progress in his own ambitions and development career wise.  

 The job in question was not to fulfill this potential mentors role.. but rather to complement  the development and ambitions of the service with his own unique expertise. Expertise that very few of his age have in the uk let alone in the middle east.

 In fact, when applying for posts many recruiters mentioned not putting in some of his experience because middle eastern employers are not advanced enough to understand and have a very limited scope on the type of qualities he could bring into an organization.  Hence why it took an english chap to take notice and appreciate his unique skills and faster than normal progression.

 As it turns out.. the only reason he will be taken the job in light of the insulting package offered is to learn arabic, study with islamic scholars, gain experience working with arabs, and learn from his new mentor.  He will also not take the job longer than 1 year.

earlier, your husband "feels he could really learn from his (the man running the job) expertise" so obviously he still needs development. QP will only pay top salary if the individual can perform the job in full.

To be honest, the first day my husband came to Qatar he was quite put off by the HR. So much so, that he decided to stay up late and have a chat with another english chap working as a freelance engineer (making bucket loads.)

The next day he woke up late while everyone downstairs was waiting for him because he had no intention of working for Qatar petroleum. And then he met the guy who was running his proposed department and was absolutely amazed. He thought to himself that he could work for this kind of quality and felt more comfortable with Him being English.

My husband did say that HR completely put him off of the job though and that the low ball salary they offered is an insult. The problem is that HR just go by numbers (years of experience) and the grading system is not geared to high fliers.

I wasn't in recruitment but do know some of the staff.

ABC I suspect may have had a problem in recruitment.

Can't please all the people all the time.

I am sure ABC150's comment not directed to you dweller xx.

At the moment we still waiting the replacement Falcon club for the staffs recreation centre.

harsh ABC123.

I can't imagine ALL of them being like that.

This is with reference to your statement above "My husband has fallen in love with the guy running the show (english chap) and feels he could really learn from his expertise and believes in what he is trying to do. Men and their emotions :)".

I know most of the englishmen in QP HRR and they are liars of the highest order. They will be at their best till the time your husband signs on teh dotted line and then they will even stop recognizing him.

This is just a caution for you to be more cautious.

I was just thinking can we ask for a "flexible" premium economy ticket

on british airways.

As that is where I get all my miles from. It is still economy + and if the ticket is flexible would cover me for business class with the kids.

rate I believe is the published fare. Will someone correct me if I am wrong?

Thanks

what exactly is an iata rate?

btw thanks

If you are recruited from the UK, the odds are that your leave ticket will only be back to the UK (if that is your home of record).

tlpatla, I am pleased to hear that the full IATA rate is again being paid. It was reduced to excursion in '86 because the oil price had dropped (to about $8 a barrel I think).

Mind you that they actually pay IATA rate - cash. Its almost 2X of actual economy ticket - enough to cover yor business class seat, perhaps : ). This is one thing that those guys pocketed, among others.

Be specific on yor point of origin in appointment letter, once this finalized, they will pay airticket up to this place only.

I am really gutted about the allowances. At least with the economy class air tickets.

We would fly back to america every year as opposed to england and their is nooooooo way I am going to sit in economy for 24 hours because it is sooooo uncomfortable!

with QP Grades and maximums as they have changed considerably of late (from what I hear). In any case it isn't something that QP would wish published. The majority of QP staff are unaware of the grade maximums, sometimes of their own job.

The criteria for establishing grades is not of a personal nature.

All jobs are analysed and evaluated using the organisation's job evaluation scheme.

Thus there is a job grade and a salary grade (not necessarily the same) Never is the salary grade higher than the job grade unless it's a historical situation.

Subsequently, an employee may be capable of undertaking work of a more senior position but will have responsibilites at a lower level and grade.

Essentially it's not what you can do but what you actually do. That doesn't mean that you will only do what is on the Job Description. Undertaking the duties of higher graded positions is seen as necessary to prove that if vacancy appears, you are capable of doing the job. Of course there will be other candidates for vacancies being considered with priority going to Qatari national staff.

Recruitment salaries were set at one time using a statistical technique that ensured the induction of an employee into a salary position consistent with experience and the salaries of the peer group. I don'tknow if that still applies but suspect that it does.

so dweller how does the grading system work at qp

for instance.. what criteria must a person meet to be in grade 18 17? or grade 16? And what was the last top salary for these grades known by you?

as I am thinking that the only thing one can negotiate is the basic salary.

need to be diplomatic as well.

Seriously, it can be very difficult to adjust depending on where you are coming from, your character and as I said earlier, your sense of humour.

There are those that can handle it diplomatically in the UK (or elsewhere) but cannot in the Middle East, it isn't comparable.

Learning arabic is difficult and courses (including written) I believe generally run for about 3 years in the evenings.

I will be gobsmacked if you are able to negotiate increases on allowances. I can vouch that they are written in stone.

I'm screwed in that case.. cuz I have no sense of humour... I am sooooooooo serious..

So do you guys think the hubby (used to british standards) could handle it. He is very diplomatic if thats any help.

It's an art form in QP.

Don't forget your sense of humour PH. You will certainly need it.

hashin ... i guess you been there and got the t-shirt. lol. Good nite.

especially at QP

Dont come to Qatar expecting less 'red tape' to deal with compare the UK ... because you will find a shock here.

Unfortunately if the salary is too low we will be unable to accept the position financially. Unless my husband takes a 1 year sabbatical from his current post and has a job when we return to the uk. In which case our main purpose would be to learn arabic and gain experience in the post being offered. My husband has fallen in love with the guy running the show (english chap) and feels he could really learn from his expertise and believes in what he is trying to do. Men and their emotions :)

At present the job being offered is LESS than half of what my husband could currenly earn in the uk. Also the post (in title but not responsibilities) actually brings his position down from his current director position.

Still it would be nice to enjoy less bureaucracy then he must deal with in his current position. . As he would be completely in charge of anyone who works in the service or services(eventually) he will run.

We would need to save equal of what we save here and be able to afford my mother in laws comprehensive health insurance in Qatar. As well as have a good quality of life and cover any mortgage payments and bills in the uk.

Salaries in QP are not that low within the region.

If the skills you possess are really in short supply, they will go the extra. These however are generally reserved for highly skilled operational staff.

Low salary but you are still accepting?

I had heard that qp will be only paying the actually rent of a property and unfortunately we are not able to pocket the difference. this was a bit of a let down because of the low salary on offer.

I often wander how qp can gain any staff by these low offers in basic salary. especially for people from the west?

"Housing allowance - (around 14 to 15K)depend on your taste of house, you may save half from this & you can keep your salary)"

Having moaned about housing costs of decent accommodation, people then lower their standards to pocket the cash.

Sooner or later QP will pay it againsy invoices or rental agreements and who can blame them!

We would like to know what the maximun allowances we can ask for are?

(All allowance are fixed - pls ask one copy of Company booklet from your agent)

Housing allowance - (around 14 to 15K)depend on your taste of house, you may save half from this & you can keep your salary)

transportation hoping to recieve +2k - (ok, or they will provide you a car with everything free - fuel, maintenance etc)

utilites,can we ask for utility allowance with QP - (subsidized)

currency protection- (available for QP, calculation based on currency exchange on your appointment date.)

WIA- I have seen people say that this is 4.5k at the moment. The offer with QP is only 3k at the moment. (wia?)

Is there any other allowances that we can ask for/ that I'm missing. (a lot of other allowance - eg furniture alllowance,transport allow, assitant transport allw, school transport allw, membership club allw etc etc- they cover everything)

Can we ask for additional bonuses? (No)

as we have noticed that QP doesn't seem to have a pension plan (not for expat. You will get Employee Separation Bonus - which is the longer you work for QP, ESB rate increased from 1 to 1.5 and to 2 times)

BTW, from which country are you?

Welcome to Qatar

QP pay and End of Service benefit in lieu of pension.

This is paid at one month's basic terminal salary per year of service.

The ony thing you can probably negotiate is basic salary. None of the allowances are negotiable.

Not possible to get business class ticket also unless your husband's grade is entitled for business class.

Bonus is also not fixed. Last year was the first time QP gave bonus and it was clearly mentioned that this is a one time payment.

What abouut children education? You did not mention that. Even if QP is paying for education (which it normally does for community schools), better check for places in school prior to coming. There is a big shortage of places in Western schools and I know many people leaving Qatar solely due to non availability of places in schools.

do you work for QP? I have heard that negotiation was possible..

that the lebanese guy gives the lowest salary possible.. and depending on the grade.. one needs to negotiate to the maximun the policy allows for his grade.

What is your position with QP novita.. If u don't mind me asking of course.

currency protection and WIA is set price ... you cant bargain for that. And as far as i know QP salary based on the band ... it is kinda of take it or leave it.

GOOD TO 1ST DOCTOR ON QL VGOOD

My husband would not like to travel back to the UK because we have property in California. Would it be possible to negotiate business class air tickets with QP. As economy class would be extremely uncomfortable with children and we do not currently use economy class in any case.