lens of their social or religious beliefs. I know that the religious texts that have influenced me treat "marriage" as a sanctified relationship between a man and a woman (or women in Islam and Mormonism).
I can't quite see in a religiously based society how gay marriage fits in. But in a secular country where marriage entitles the parties to financial and social benefits then I can see an issue with defining marriage only in terms of the heterosexual commitment. At the same time, I don't think it necessarily benefits society to sanction gay marriage and start to make this alternative lifestyle mainstream.
At the same time, to be quite honest, I have gay friends and know may gay people, and I would never want to see them persecuted are suffer for something that I truly believe is out of their subconscious control. I'm just not sure that "legitimizing" gay marriage is beneficial to society.
even consider being a liberal muslim?;-) Stone him;-P
I agree... being liberal doesn't neccessarily mean you have to agree with gay marriage - but it doesn't affect you so why should you worry about what others are doing -again live and let live.... until it impacts on your own personal life - don't bother...(PS, not directed at anyone in particular, just my rant on the subject - taking the example given by Genesis)
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
There are many different opinions about Islam & CO-ED lately. Specially with the inauguration of King Abdulla University of Science and Technology in Jeddah last month. In Fact, Just last night A famous Saudi scholar resigned from the Saudi Senior Scholars authority after he criticized the King's decision of opening a co-ed university there
Genesis, there are such things as liberal ideas and liberalism. You're liberal so long as there aren't any others who are more liberal than you. As long as there are lots more liberal than you, than you are conservative. As I said though, there's no such thing as a true liberal as very few would believe in pedophilia, murder, etc. Most people are still ethical liberals.
The Latin "liber' has two meanings: one meaning is "free", the other is "book". Only if you read all the books and understand the necessities and accept them, you are free (Immanuel Kant). Then you don't need any guidance from anybody and you can be secular. I would not interpret "Liberalism" with "live and let die". Obviously that's only the Wiki-interpretation.
I'm secular, but I would never call myself completely liberal. While I believe church and state should be separated there are parts of liberalism I don't agree with. After all the liberal credo is "live and let live" sorry, but I can't agree with pedophilia, polluters and murderers. Therefore I don't believe anyone can ever be truly liberal. However, I believe on the levels of liberalism, people who are religious should be (and are) considered conservatives.
"Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejects many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion."
so it seems Muslims have the right to reject it.
I don't see that pure religion is against freedom so I believe liberalism isn't a suitable term for this ideology. We can be religious and liberal, unless we choose to be slaves of anything or anyone.
Because Liberals are infidels? Liberal Islam is an OxyMoron, no matter how Liberal Muslims think they get they don't even come close to real Liberals because they are still confined to the laws of their religion. As for secular...well that's haram, Islam has a code of government and laws already in it. So no secularism there.
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"PM said I am for secular governments and ...
a liberal Muslim. Maybe that is why the Muslim Mafia doesn't like me! lol"
I make mines your wise words, PM.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
lens of their social or religious beliefs. I know that the religious texts that have influenced me treat "marriage" as a sanctified relationship between a man and a woman (or women in Islam and Mormonism).
I can't quite see in a religiously based society how gay marriage fits in. But in a secular country where marriage entitles the parties to financial and social benefits then I can see an issue with defining marriage only in terms of the heterosexual commitment. At the same time, I don't think it necessarily benefits society to sanction gay marriage and start to make this alternative lifestyle mainstream.
At the same time, to be quite honest, I have gay friends and know may gay people, and I would never want to see them persecuted are suffer for something that I truly believe is out of their subconscious control. I'm just not sure that "legitimizing" gay marriage is beneficial to society.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
even consider being a liberal muslim?;-) Stone him;-P
I agree... being liberal doesn't neccessarily mean you have to agree with gay marriage - but it doesn't affect you so why should you worry about what others are doing -again live and let live.... until it impacts on your own personal life - don't bother...(PS, not directed at anyone in particular, just my rant on the subject - taking the example given by Genesis)
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
a liberal Muslim. Maybe that is why the Muslim Mafia doesn't like me! lol
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I know you didn't correct me Alexa. i was correcting geneisis.
In this sense no one can properly be called liberal as every civilised individual is confined by some sort of rules.
No.
What's really annoying that some Qataris have the nerve to criticize Saudi for going CO-ED? I mean am i the only one seeing the irony in that!!!
Alright, then I'm corrected. Either way I think if you're following the tenants of Islam you can't be properly called Liberal
[quote Olive:] "According to your religion Genesis (forgive me if I'm wrong) but men and women should not be educated together..."
You're wrong on this IMO, Olive. What's 'haram' is 'el khalwah' which means a man and a woman being together alone
I believe mixed education and work are permitted provided everyone is decently dressed and behaved.
co-ed has recently been considered 'haram' because of extremism and male dominance..
There are many different opinions about Islam & CO-ED lately. Specially with the inauguration of King Abdulla University of Science and Technology in Jeddah last month. In Fact, Just last night A famous Saudi scholar resigned from the Saudi Senior Scholars authority after he criticized the King's decision of opening a co-ed university there
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/10/04/86923.html
Genesis, there are such things as liberal ideas and liberalism. You're liberal so long as there aren't any others who are more liberal than you. As long as there are lots more liberal than you, than you are conservative. As I said though, there's no such thing as a true liberal as very few would believe in pedophilia, murder, etc. Most people are still ethical liberals.
Agree with exiled saint. You can disagree with it but as long as you allow others to do it, than you are liberal.
The Latin "liber' has two meanings: one meaning is "free", the other is "book". Only if you read all the books and understand the necessities and accept them, you are free (Immanuel Kant). Then you don't need any guidance from anybody and you can be secular. I would not interpret "Liberalism" with "live and let die". Obviously that's only the Wiki-interpretation.
You can be liberal and disagree with gay marriage, but if you campaign against it then you are not liberal.
Religion has no place in government or the state. The state and government is fall all people in a country.(That goes for Qatar too)
Yes.
I can't agree with gay marriage. Does that makes me less liberal?
Secularism and Liberalism go hand in hand, if you believe the church should have no part in the state, than, technically, you are liberal.
According to your religion Genesis (forgive me if I'm wrong) but men and women should not be educated together...
I can see my self as liberal but not a secular. I can't see how liberalism clashes with someone being muslim
People have the strangest ideas here.
If you support CO-ED (you're Secular!)
If you support co-existence with other religions (You're secular!)
Is it ignorance?
I'm secular, but I would never call myself completely liberal. While I believe church and state should be separated there are parts of liberalism I don't agree with. After all the liberal credo is "live and let live" sorry, but I can't agree with pedophilia, polluters and murderers. Therefore I don't believe anyone can ever be truly liberal. However, I believe on the levels of liberalism, people who are religious should be (and are) considered conservatives.
Like I said, love your neighbour and stone the rest to death...
According to Wikipedia:
"Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejects many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion."
so it seems Muslims have the right to reject it.
I don't see that pure religion is against freedom so I believe liberalism isn't a suitable term for this ideology. We can be religious and liberal, unless we choose to be slaves of anything or anyone.
Because Liberals are infidels? Liberal Islam is an OxyMoron, no matter how Liberal Muslims think they get they don't even come close to real Liberals because they are still confined to the laws of their religion. As for secular...well that's haram, Islam has a code of government and laws already in it. So no secularism there.
And where do you get this idea from ?
Experience or fact ?
...yes both isdeologies can be compared. There are liberals in all religions. Secularism is closely connected but not the same.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
Live and let live. For everyone else stone them to death.